Guild Wars 2

I cant possibly be the only one that is super disappointed with the fact we cant customize our backpack colors, specially when wearing such an awesome backpack.
My character’s whole color pattern is black/red and I’m allowed to change the color with the glider to match it (And oh lord, it looks kitten.) But then, I cant use the backpack that comes with it cause its blue/silver and I cant change it.

That COMPLETELlY ruins the whole concept of getting a backpack + gliding combo in a purchase, since obviously, its supposed to look like you’re wearing the glider with its wings curled and then, when you fly they stretch out. BUt guess what, you cant make the backpack’s colors match the glider unless your change your whole color set up just to match a specific backpack :/

I want my money back. lol.

I don’t think it makes sense to dye this Shining Blade back piece in particular. It’s blue and gold for a good reason, because it’s the Shining Blade.

Vephar.8475:

I don’t think it makes sense to dye this Shining Blade back piece in particular. It’s blue and gold for a good reason, because it’s the Shining Blade.

Then why allow you to dye the glider but not the backpack ? Since both are the “shining blade theme”. Even sold together as one.
Its just lazy work by them to not allow you to dye both. If this was about "lore and theme’’ they should have not allowed for either.

I had no idea they allowed you to dye the glider version. In that case, they should let you dye the back piece as well!

Vephar.8475:

I don’t think it makes sense to dye this Shining Blade back piece in particular. It’s blue and gold for a good reason, because it’s the Shining Blade.

That would make sense if they didn’t allow you to change the glider backpack and also not promote it with people flying around with different colors.

You feel me? I mean I myself would be cool with it being just those colors both glider/backpack…and not buy it, but we can’t pretend that it wouldn’t be better and also fitting(Maybe not lore) if it matched the glider colors when changed or something. Immersion is broken either way, the hell I look like wearing it only for it to change into a different color when I glide, ha ha it’s funny a little bit and I’m not bashing my computer in over it, just wish A-net could alter their current backpack/glider mindset and think more open/outside the box.

RizelStar.3724:

Vephar.8475:

I don’t think it makes sense to dye this Shining Blade back piece in particular. It’s blue and gold for a good reason, because it’s the Shining Blade.

That would make sense if they didn’t allow you to change the glider backpack and also not promote it with people flying around with different colors.

You feel me? I mean I myself would be cool with it being just those colors both glider/backpack…and not buy it, but we can’t pretend that it wouldn’t be better and also fitting(Maybe not lore) if it matched the glider colors when changed or something. Immersion is broken either way, the hell I look like wearing it only for it to change into a different color when I glide, ha ha it’s funny a little bit and I’m not bashing my computer in over it, just wish A-net could alter their current backpack/glider mindset and think more open/outside the box.

This.

It just feels like lazy work that they didnt have the two things match colors. And I feel a kitteneated since they advertised people flying around with it in many different colors.
I didnt play GW1, so I had no idea the “gold and blue” was the original color of the Shining Blades, so I couldnt EVEN suspect that the backpack’s version could be stuck to one color. I just feel like I fell on a trap and lost 10 bucks.

It’s extremely hard to alter the engine so backpacks are dyeable. As far as the engine is considered, backpacks are considered items (like weapons) and gliders are considered effects. The engine needs to be fundamentally altered from the ground up to allow for item dye channels. It’s not impossible, but not easy. To add to this, the Shining Blade glider was designed on its own and after it was modeled one of the artists saw that it could be turned into a backpack for the players to enjoy. I think lazy is an inappropriate term for this situation when someone went the extra mile. However, I do understand your frustration with not knowing it couldn’t be dyed. That should be more clear.

Yeah that was a huge disappointment.

Tidgepot.3285:

It’s extremely hard to alter the engine so backpacks are dyeable. As far as the engine is considered, backpacks are considered items (like weapons) and gliders are considered effects. The engine needs to be fundamentally altered from the ground up to allow for item dye channels. It’s not impossible, but not easy. To add to this, the Shining Blade glider was designed on its own and after it was modeled one of the artists saw that it could be turned into a backpack for the players to enjoy. I think lazy is an inappropriate term for this situation when someone went the extra mile. However, I do understand your frustration with not knowing it couldn’t be dyed. That should be more clear.

Right. If that’s the case, Is ure hope they offer refunds since its obviously NOT how it was supposed to be (Since the back item obviously was ment to be the glider with its wings held back. Its the whole concept of having gliders~backs combos being sold, after all.)

crash

Right. If that’s the case, Is ure hope they offer refunds since its obviously NOT how it was supposed to be (Since the back item obviously was ment to be the glider with its wings held back. Its the whole concept of having gliders~backs combos being sold, after all.)

I would be surprised if they didn’t offer you a prompt refund

I am thinking of a refund as well. It would be great if the backpack could match the color of the glider, but when it doesn’t work as a set, then it is rather disappointing.

Arakanga.1569:

I am thinking of a refund as well. It would be great if the backpack could match the color of the glider, but when it doesn’t work as a set, then it is rather disappointing.

Its my thoughts exactly :/
If there’s no way it can be fixed, guess a refund it is.
Its just a real shame, cause the backpack looks GREAT and so does the glide, if only the colors could work, I’d be more than happy with the purchase.

I’m holding off on buying it because of the inability to dye backpacks. It’s the perfect skin and ties in wonderfully with my overall appearance, but the colors clash. I know it’s a lot of work, but I really hope we become able to dye backpacks at some point. This is the second back piece I’ve held off on buying because of the dye issue :\

When i saw this glider/backpack combo beeing announced, my eyes shined (got it?) with happines, its theme and aesthetic are simply really beautiful and is everything i could wanted in a backpack/glider…
however, the fact that my backpack simply can’t match the collours of my glider got me so bothered, that i simply don’t want the item anymore and i’m now asking for a refound :/…
i just hope they come up with a solution for this soon…

• If you are holding out for dyeable backpacks, request a refund.
• As noted above, making it possible to apply dye to backpacks (and weapons) requires changing a major part of the underlying mechanics. It isn’t something that can be “fixed” — it was an intended part of the design.
• It might happen someday (I’d bet that it wouldn’t be sooner than GW3, but I wouldn’t advise betting on my bets); it definitely won’t happen “soon” or even soon™.

Tidgepot.3285:

It’s extremely hard to alter the engine so backpacks are dyeable. As far as the engine is considered, backpacks are considered items (like weapons) and gliders are considered effects. The engine needs to be fundamentally altered from the ground up to allow for item dye channels.

[Citation Needed]

Back items also take damage like armor and thus are not the same thing as accessories or weapons. They never got dye channels likely for the same reason that we only had the guild backpack at launch, it was never finished.

Backpacks will remain un-dyable so Anet can sell black and white wing sets. Plain and simple.

I loved the design and bought it without realizing that the backpack wouldn’t match the wings colour scheme. Hopefully they’ll respond to the refund request in the next 3-5 months.

Anyone was able to get refund already? I’m thinking about filling in refund request too, dyable glider and undyable backpiece should not be sold as “combo” at least not without proper warning.

Tidgepot.3285:

It’s extremely hard to alter the engine so backpacks are dyeable. As far as the engine is considered, backpacks are considered items (like weapons) and gliders are considered effects. The engine needs to be fundamentally altered from the ground up to allow for item dye channels. It’s not impossible, but not easy. To add to this, the Shining Blade glider was designed on its own and after it was modeled one of the artists saw that it could be turned into a backpack for the players to enjoy. I think lazy is an inappropriate term for this situation when someone went the extra mile. However, I do understand your frustration with not knowing it couldn’t be dyed. That should be more clear.

I hope what you say is right, but a part of me can’t help but think they aren’t doing it because they want to sell different colors of back items.

Which I feel there is a way to tie it into different backpacks or something, maybe someone is working on it, I just can’t imagine it not being possible if the dye system is already in the game and also made for gliders. Though I’m sure you’re correct but I would like to hear something from an A-Net staff member or engineer, cause I think it’s all about the money, but I can see it being an engine issue.

I really hope a dev or a staff member answers.

I don’t think it would be that hard either to implement. If the backpack is considered as an item, they can just make it consider as an armorn right ? There are already armor pieces that don’t have any dye channels (Radiant, etc.) if needed (I’m thinking about wings).

As for me, I don’t think I’ll ask for a refund, because I really like the glider. But it really was a cheap move from Anet. Selling a combo glider+backpack, while the backpack not being able to be the same color as the glider…

If I could, I would have only bought the glider, the backpack is just somewhere deep in my storage…

With that said, I want to say congrats to whoever did this design, it’s really, really nice. Thank you !

Substance E.

[Citation Needed]
Back items also take damage like armor and thus are not the same thing as accessories or weapons. They never got dye channels likely for the same reason that we only had the guild backpack at launch, it was never finished.
Backpacks will remain un-dyable so Anet can sell black and white wing sets. Plain and simple.

If you need citation, then look no further. I’m the dev who concepted this glider! Granted, I’m an artist so I couldn’t give you the full technical rundown like Josh Petrie, but I do handle our engine daily.

Whether or not the equipment takes damage or not has no bearing on how the engine separates items. The engine sees armor as what is called a composite, it sees things attached to your characters like weapons and backpieces as items, and it sees gliders as a sort of middleground item/effect. Our file structure separates gliders as items, but because of how they pop into view, layer, and more easily allow for dyes it makes sense to basically treat them as effects. Now I’m not positive on this, but I’m going to hazard a guess that if we decided to make gliders as items, we’d have to retroactively alter the system in a way that would allow for weapons/backpieces to be dyed.

On its face doing this sounds like a great idea, since this is what fans want. As a fellow player I’d like this as well, but unfortunately our systems were not designed with this in mind. Not only would we have to go back and code each item so it can have dye channels/sufficient UI and prepare for the veritable bugfest that would ensue from altering a system that has years of work built on top of it, but we’d also have to retexture these items. Why? Our dye system is balanced around a red base color which has an impact on how every other color will appear when a channel shifts to it. Anyone who has played with dodging/burning in photoshop will know that red has some strange properties when it comes to shifts in values. Many dyes would have blown out/dull/oddly saturated textures as a result.

That’s just the tip of the iceberg. There’s SO much more to the process that I don’t have a firm grasp on.

The devs here are gamers and we love what we do. We want fans to get excited about what we make because we’re fans, too. However, we have players clamoring for every fix/feature under the sun so we have to do a ton of prioritizing. Game development is never plain and simple.

Edit: Thanks Aikawa! I designed it but Chelsea M. modeled it. She’s a rockstar!

@Tidgepot

I do understand retrofitting all backpieces would take a lot of work, and in most cases wouldn’t be worth the effort, but when it comes to dye channels, I don’t think there’s any reason to give all back items dye channels retroactively.

There are some armor pieces that have 1 dye channel, and some that have 4. Giving all back items dye channels just so future back items could have dye channels wouldn’t be any more reasonable or worthwhile than giving all armor pieces 4 dye channels no matter what. If armor dye channels range from 1-4, then it’s not a big deal if back item dye channels ranged from 0-4 or 0-3 or whatever.

I know everything takes time and work, but I also agree with you that as players we would both love dyeable back items. If you have any voice in the company, maybe you could suggest that most of the current back items are just fine and wouldn’t need dye channels. Ya’ll don’t need to do more work than necessary just for the sake of old back items.

We had the same problem with the moth wing backpack and glider. Beautiful glider that was dyeable, and ugly backpiece where you’re stuck with a bright red colour that clashes with everything.

backs have never been dyable, this isnt new. if you didnt know about it after all these years, thats your problem. they shouldnt refund you.

the moth is the same way, and probably a few others i cannot think of. put it on a different character if it means os much to you

I think a more reasonable solution would be to add dye channels to the backpieces that also serve as gliders, rather than every single backpiece in the game.

Deerbot.3152:

I think a more reasonable solution would be to add dye channels to the backpieces that also serve as gliders, rather than every single backpiece in the game.

It’s not technically possible. To offer dye channels, the underlying mechanics have to be changed so that one or more channels become available to any backpacks. That also requires updating the artwork for the existing back packs. So sure, it might reduce the work on some individual pieces, but it doesn’t reduce the size or scope of the project.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Deerbot.3152:

I think a more reasonable solution would be to add dye channels to the backpieces that also serve as gliders, rather than every single backpiece in the game.

It’s not technically possible. To offer dye channels, the underlying mechanics have to be changed so that one or more channels become available to any backpacks. That also requires updating the artwork for the existing back packs. So sure, it might reduce the work on some individual pieces, but it doesn’t reduce the size or scope of the project.

I imagine a channel being made available, yes, but not allowing the dying of every back piece. Just having the non-dyable ones grayed out would suffice. I can’t imagine it being impossible.

Nvidius.3512:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Deerbot.3152:

I think a more reasonable solution would be to add dye channels to the backpieces that also serve as gliders, rather than every single backpiece in the game.

It’s not technically possible. To offer dye channels, the underlying mechanics have to be changed so that one or more channels become available to any backpacks. That also requires updating the artwork for the existing back packs. So sure, it might reduce the work on some individual pieces, but it doesn’t reduce the size or scope of the project.

I imagine a channel being made available, yes, but not allowing the dying of every back piece. Just having the non-dyable ones grayed out would suffice. I can’t imagine it being impossible.

It’s not impossible. It’s a lot of work — it’s nearly the same amount of work to create two dye channels on every backpack as it is to create four on a single skin and nothing on the others. That’s because they have to change the underlying mechanics to make it possible on the first place and update all the existing backpacks to work with the new code, code they weren’t designed to work with.

It’s not about fixing one backpack, it’s about redesigning the entire backpack skin infrastructure to make it possible to do that.

They could at least make it possible for this particular backpack, since the groundwork is already there anyway. And once that is implemented, it will pave the way for more dyable backpacks in the future.

I’d like my money back for this as well. Anyone know how to go about that?

Sarnax.8357:

I’d like my money back for this as well. Anyone know how to go about that?

You can contact the CS Team via the ‘Support’ link above/below and ‘Submit a Request’ for assistance.

Good luck.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

They could at least make it possible for this particular backpack, since the groundwork is already there anyway. And once that is implemented, it will pave the way for more dyable backpacks in the future.

No, the ground work isn’t done yet, according to ANet.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

They could at least make it possible for this particular backpack, since the groundwork is already there anyway. And once that is implemented, it will pave the way for more dyable backpacks in the future.

No, the ground work isn’t done yet, according to ANet.

How so? The glider is worn on the back and can be dyed, why can’t the backpack?
Not that I don’t believe you, but I’m genuinely curious.

I can understand if a backpack was never designed to be dyed that it would be a lot of work, but this particular backpack already has the necessary dye channels included.

I don’t think because the skins are similar, that they are the same kind of item. The Glider has the wings deployed, the backpack does not.

Thus, no necessary dye channels included. Not only that, the Dev, Tidgepot, explained the issue in this very thread. (Not sure where his/her Red Splash got off to…)

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I don’t think because the skins are similar, that they are the same kind of item. The Glider has the wings deployed, the backpack does not.

Thus, no necessary dye channels included. Not only that, the Dev, Tidgepot, explained the issue in this very thread. (Not sure where his/her Red Splash got off to…)

I didn’t realize that was a dev.
Yeah that explanation makes sense I guess. Oh well.

I was honestly thinking the same. I mean the glider is fully dye-able and can be made to look fantastic but the whole thing falls apart when you land and it reverts back to its “set” colours. Either keep the item one colour or make it dye-able in all aspects otherwise there is no aesthetic value

It would totally be worth the effort to make backpieces have dye channels. The amount of effort<the levels of happiness

Yep, just got sucked into the misconception that you can dye it too…. Thought it would go great with my current outfit once I dyed it up.

Where did you get the idea you can dye backpacks when it’s never been something you can do?

Devs said the tech for dying was never added to backpieces, while gliders did have the dye channels from creation.

Who knows if they’ll be able to go back and redo all the backpieces, I’d wager that’ll be a no.

Ashe Lewis.9815:

Rizelstar

Though I’m sure you’re correct but I would like to hear something from an A-Net staff member or engineer, cause I think it’s all about the money, but I can see it being an engine issue.

I rarely post on the forums so I just had my account upgraded to a developer one. So Tidgepot is indeed a dev because I’m Tidgepot! My those my posts earlier in this thread still stand. I’m sorry about the confusion :P

Mo Mo

I know everything takes time and work, but I also agree with you that as players we would both love dyeable back items. If you have any voice in the company, maybe you could suggest that most of the current back items are just fine and wouldn’t need dye channels. Ya’ll don’t need to do more work than necessary just for the sake of old back items.

Like I said before, I’m an just artist so I’ll elaborate on what I understand as best as I can, but I’m no engineer.

This sounds like a it could be good idea, but it doesn’t sidestep the issue of categorization and what certain types of assets can do. The older assets would still be affected. We’d still encounter a ton of programing challenges and bugs from altering a core mechanic of the game and the years of code built on top of it. Every player and many npcs use items, so the wrong bug slipping through can have a major impact on everyone in the game. Not to mention finding that bug could be like searching for a needle in a haystack because of how fundamental this part of our system is. We’d still probably end up having to re-author and retexture all old items (which would take a ton of resources) and even if we did do that, more players may end up upset by the minor texture changes to their current gear than those who can’t dye backpacks.

A workaround could be a new asset type, but our engine is old and finicky— it would certainly take a lot resources to teach it to parse through something so fundamental.

I have to admit it is disappointing to hear that it would be such a difficult task and therefore unlikely to be implemented.

I will be keeping my backpack and just have to use it on a character with a blue+gold theme and then dye the glider on one that is using a different backpack. Obviously this means I won’t have the cool folded glider effect.

In my opinion if a glider has dye channels, making a back pack to go with it should be avoided.

TLDR summary:
Glider+back pack combos, don’t allow any dyes channels.
Glider only, consider having dye channels where appropriate.

Remus Darkblight.1673:

TLDR summary:
Glider+back pack combos, don’t allow any dyes channels.
Glider only, consider having dye channels where appropriate.

I disagree with this recommendation. Some people would still like the opportunity to dye their glider. As long as the default pack colors match the glider, I don’t see a problem: purists get matching themes and everyone else gets a chance to go for contrasts.

(My objection is that the dye channels often don’t recolor all the important parts. I love the -tron pack, but I won’t get it since we can’t change the hue of the paisley; that’s an awkward green for contrasting/complementary colors.)

I second that disagreement. I tend to not use large elaborate back pieces as backpacks while I do like the glider versions. Why shouldn’t I be allowed to dye them? Making the glider dyeable does not remove the option to not dye them for people who use both the backpack and the glider. Win-win.

One thing i don’t understand here: The backpack skin is already able to use the guild symbol without the need to do anything. Would it be so fundamentally different to make it also request the color scheme of the glider?

Ashe Lewis.9815:

Rizelstar

Though I’m sure you’re correct but I would like to hear something from an A-Net staff member or engineer, cause I think it’s all about the money, but I can see it being an engine issue.

I rarely post on the forums so I just had my account upgraded to a developer one. So Tidgepot is indeed a dev because I’m Tidgepot! My posts earlier in this thread still stand. I’m sorry about the confusion :P

Mo Mo

I know everything takes time and work, but I also agree with you that as players we would both love dyeable back items. If you have any voice in the company, maybe you could suggest that most of the current back items are just fine and wouldn’t need dye channels. Ya’ll don’t need to do more work than necessary just for the sake of old back items.

Like I said before, I’m just an artist so I’ll elaborate on what I understand as best as I can, but I’m no engineer.

This sounds like a it could be good idea, but it doesn’t sidestep the issue of categorization and what certain types of assets can do. The older assets would still be affected. We’d still encounter a ton of programing challenges and bugs from altering a core mechanic of the game and the years of code built on top of it. Every player and many npcs use items, so the wrong bug slipping through can have a major impact on everyone in the game. Not to mention finding that bug could be like searching for a needle in a haystack because of how fundamental this part of our system is. We’d still probably end up having to re-author and retexture all old items (which would take a ton of resources) and even if we did do that, more players may end up upset by the minor texture changes to their current gear than those who can’t dye backpacks.

Maybe(?) a workaround could be a new asset type, but our engine is old and finicky— it would certainly take a lot resources to teach it to parse through something so fundamental.

I vote for the workaround as it would: a) avoid tampering with the core coding of the game, b) more easier to find a bug, should it occur. The idea I have in mind, would be simply to put in a new slot – let’s call it “Back-Pack Glider” – slot. You can equip a back-pack strap in this slot and transmute it to the Shining Blade back-pack, except work has been done with the dye channels for this specific skin. This new slot, when enabled to be displayed, will automatically disable / toggle-off the display of the normal, back piece slot equipment.

Basically, just as gliders were added, we use the same principle for back-pieces that can have dyes, where they have their own slot and should just auto-disable the display of the normal back piece slot when the player chooses to display the dye-enabled back-pack, eg Shining Blade!

No idea on the amount of resources it will require, but I think this approach is better rather than dabbling with the old codes.

Ashe Lewis.9815:

Maybe(?) a workaround could be a new asset type, but our engine is old and finicky— it would certainly take a lot resources to teach it to parse through something so fundamental.

At what point does one consider that this old and finicky engine simply isn’t up to job at hand? If you folks (as in Anet in general) are constantly having to make apologies for the engine not being able to provide what players want, at what point does the company decide that maybe the next step is to move on from it? In the development world, is there a specific cut off period or is it more case by case?

Guildwars 2 has had a pretty long life. Maybe it’d be better to release a new game rather than continue to compound the issues by adding expansions onto a broken engine.

I would love to be able to dye the Job-O-Tron backpack. Whenever I hear one of those confounded things nearby, I find myself constantly muttering “Dye… dye… DIE!” under my breath.

Lemondish.3268:

Ashe Lewis.9815:

Maybe(?) a workaround could be a new asset type, but our engine is old and finicky— it would certainly take a lot resources to teach it to parse through something so fundamental.

At what point does one consider that this old and finicky engine simply isn’t up to job at hand? If you folks (as in Anet in general) are constantly having to make apologies for the engine not being able to provide what players want, at what point does the company decide that maybe the next step is to move on from it? In the development world, is there a specific cut off period or is it more case by case?

Guildwars 2 has had a pretty long life. Maybe it’d be better to release a new game rather than continue to compound the issues by adding expansions onto a broken engine.

It’s got nothing to do with being old. They made a design decision: allow dye on armor, but not weapons and not back items. This has meant that they can release lots of new weapons (and recently backpacks) because they don’t have to take into account the interaction of dyes with thre rest of the artwork.

When gliders were added to the game, they took into account the feedback about no-dye items and created them with the ability to have dye channels. To do the same for backs (or weapons) requires recreating the artwork for all the existing items of the same type — it’s not, of course, nearly as much work as starting from scratch; neither is it fast or painless (it’s mostly tediously, painstakingly reviewing to make sure that the changes haven’t created unforeseen issues).

It’s easy for JanSport to create a new daypack that has a laptop pocket and kitten for headphone cords; it was harder for them to retrofit the 20th century designs to do the same thing. (The analogy is poor in a lot of ways, particularly in that retrofitting a pack can’t result in someone getting into an accident on their way to school, whereas retrofitting computer code can result in crashes or eye-jarring visual artifacts.)

Just want to chime in, and support what Anet staff said about the major issues involved in making it possible to dye a backpack. Although I’d also love to dye my Shining Blade backpack (so my cute Asuran necro in green bladed armor could wear it :P), I’d MUCH rather the devs spend their valuable time on more pressing game issues and content. My 2 cents on the matter.

As a fellow developer I have a few ideas which could be used to make this significantly easier. To accomplish this task you would definitely need to redesign the mechanics behind the backpack.

I would suggest creating a newer backpack object class. To add backwards compatibility the newer class would use a common programming methodology called inheritance to pass all the older properties and functionalities from the old backpack object to the new one.

During this process it would also check for the existence of skin colors. If it found these to be null it would know that the object is older and needs to have these skin set. This could be accomplished by a quick scan of the asset assigned to that object. Once scanned those color values could be then assigned to the skin colors of the newer backpack object.

This would essentially create palette sets for each of the older backpack objects.

Once a palette could be created, UI functionality could be written to directly access and change these palettes using pointers.

I can go into detail with either pseudo code or actual C++/C# code if requested. I would definitely like this feature to be added.