Guild Wars 2

I’ve been using the new "elite"specializations and yet I don’t feel ‘elite’ at all. In PvE I don’t wreck stuff up more than a vanilla class. In PvP it’s the same story, why do I feel they are not as powerful as advertised? You mean to say F2P players who use F2P classes are more powerful than those who payed for the Elite Specializations? This is a kittening rip-off! You promised us power, and yet vanilla classes are equal and sometimes are more powerful than elite classes. Why does it say “elite” in the first place when it doesn’t give me the edge in combat, you know like an “elite”, someone on another level?

Please tell me you are joking…

Do you honestly think it would be fair if the elite specs were stronger? That would mean the game had become pay2win. You say the Devs “promised power” but they actually promised the opposite – that elite specs would NOT be more powerful, only equally so and instead just provide alternate play styles.

Sorry but elite specs should never be “Stronger”. That would unbalance the game and force everyone to play the elite spec. All it offers is a different class play style, if you don’t like it then don’t play it.

Someone dident read the info the devs gave at all /thread

Why would they be called “elite” if they weren’t stronger?

Elite:A select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.

I fail Engrish though.

Ehra.5240:

sephiroth.4217:

Why would they be called “elite” if they weren’t stronger?

Elite:A select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.

I fail Engrish though.

They’re elite in the same way skills can be elite in GW2 and were elite in GW1. You can have only one of them equipped at a time. They’re “superior” to normal specializations in that they grant access to equipment and skills not normally available to the class.

Good answer mate +1 from me

This is interesting since people are using the “elite” term to justify an exorbitant hero price cost. It is purely marketing. They seem to be the only ones who do not know the new characters are basically just 9 new professions. In some cases worse than the ones they are based off of.

You are Elite in the fact that you mastered your class enough to be able to learn how to use a weapon that is not native to your class.

In reality, it’s just another playstyle option for that class. It doesn’t make it any less elite however, seeing as you still have to get to 80 and do enough stuff in the world to actually be able to open it up and learn it.

Well, given that they are the result of the Horizontal Progression CDI, the ENTIRE POINT was to have them be of roughly equivalent power level.

I’ll agree that “elite” was a terrible choice of names, but functionally they’re working pretty much as designed.

Nike.2631:

W

I’ll agree that “elite” was a terrible choice of names,

Why? As I explained above, it fits perfectly with other uses of the word “elite” in regards to character abilities.

Well, Reaper IS stronger but just because Necromancers sucks.

Elite skills are shinier than core skills. New moves, new skills and a new weapon.

Like how legendary weapons are shinier than exotic or ascended weapons. Fancy graphics, special effects. Adjustable stats.

Neither give a player an advantage over standard/core equipment or skills available to everyone, thereby maintaining balance in the game.

One shows off their elite-ness by having these new skills fully mastered and unlocked. The skills are shinier than the core skills. They look more cool (I’m very impressed by the berserker’s new moves) than standard moves, the shouts (sound fx) are more awe inspiring etc.

Ehra.5240:

Nike.2631:

I’ll agree that “elite” was a terrible choice of names,

Why? As I explained above, it fits perfectly with other uses of the word “elite” in regards to character abilities.

It’s terrible because of the expectation of superior performance it evokes for many players. Off the top of my head in 30 seconds~

Secondary Specialization.
Focus Specialization.
Dedicated Specialization.
Alternate Specialization.

That language is dripping with choices that show the new options are not part of the core choices but also not inherently superior either. “Elite” was a poor choice and my eyebrows went up the very first moment I read that they were being called that.

I love my warrior berserker specialization, brings a lot more aoe burst with burning too!

Nike.2631:

Ehra.5240:

Nike.2631:

I’ll agree that “elite” was a terrible choice of names,

Why? As I explained above, it fits perfectly with other uses of the word “elite” in regards to character abilities.

It’s terrible because of the expectation of superior performance it evokes for many players. Off the top of my head in 30 seconds~

Secondary Specialization.
Focus Specialization.
Dedicated Specialization.
Alternate Specialization.

That language is dripping with choices that show the new options are not part of the core choices but also not inherently superior either. “Elite” was a poor choice and my eyebrows went up the very first moment I read that they were being called that.

How about Advanced Specializations? Still shows you have to be further along in character development and requires special skills (such as wielding new weapons) but without the expectation that they will be better than other specs.

I had the impression at the announcement that the Elite Specializations would provide new ways to deal with the new content in HoT, giving each class a little something for support, dps and tanking. Some professions need more balancing, but that gets worked on in every patch.

Nike.2631:

Ehra.5240:

Nike.2631:

I’ll agree that “elite” was a terrible choice of names,

Why? As I explained above, it fits perfectly with other uses of the word “elite” in regards to character abilities.

It’s terrible because of the expectation of superior performance it evokes for many players. Off the top of my head in 30 seconds~

Secondary Specialization.
Focus Specialization.
Dedicated Specialization.
Alternate Specialization.

That language is dripping with choices that show the new options are not part of the core choices but also not inherently superior either. “Elite” was a poor choice and my eyebrows went up the very first moment I read that they were being called that.

But it’s not poor. It means exactly what elite means every other time it’s used in this series. You can only have 1 elite skill equipped at a time, and elite skills are powerful, unique skills without being “superior” to normal utility skills. They’re more expensive than normal skills and require more effort to obtain (higher hero point cost in GW2, hunting them down in GW1).

The term elite comes with its own connotations in this series, its use in this case is completely inline with its past uses. Even down to the fact that you can only equip them in a specific slot.

Ehra.5240:

elite skills are powerful, unique skills without being “superior” to normal utility skills.

Did you really just type that with a straight face?

I follow the argument you’re trying to make, but don’t blow it to pieces with a stray comment like that that’s outright laughable.

Is not poor, just misleading. Therefore, bad anyway.

Nike.2631:

Ehra.5240:

Nike.2631:

I’ll agree that “elite” was a terrible choice of names,

Why? As I explained above, it fits perfectly with other uses of the word “elite” in regards to character abilities.

It’s terrible because of the expectation of superior performance it evokes for many players. Off the top of my head in 30 seconds~

Secondary Specialization.
Focus Specialization.
Dedicated Specialization.
Alternate Specialization.

That language is dripping with choices that show the new options are not part of the core choices but also not inherently superior either. “Elite” was a poor choice and my eyebrows went up the very first moment I read that they were being called that.

I like “Focus Spec” myself, it allows you to see the players has focused enough on a class to unlock alternative skills. And focus suits the progression the player needs to unlock them all.

As for the OP, ANet choose poorly in the naming aspect in that elite in an MMO means many things to many different play styles. Some may think it is something that gives you more flexibility in how you play the class. Many others, as I have seen in the last week, think it is the only thing your character should strive for or you will be useless playing without those specs.

“Elite” just as others have stated – can only have 1 Elite Trait.

Just because we only currently have 1 Elite Trait, doesn’t mean future expansions won’t come out with their own ‘Elite’ traits, thereby giving you the choice of more than 1 “Elite” traits, but still only being able to equip 1 “Elite” Trait

The main benefit with the “Elite” trait is that it also comes with unlocking a equipped item, you would not normally be able to equip.

I’m expecting future expansions to come out with Expansion specific “Elite” traits.

I know right. My worse of all my druid specialization gets nerfed every other day

Is this bait.. or..

Hokeypokey.2135:

I know right. My worse of all my druid specialization gets nerfed every other day

Ok, you might be new to MMOs, but let me share a little secret:

When a new class gets announced and EVERYONE is all “whoa, that’s amazingly powerful” like a certain Ranger Espec you KNOW it’s gonna get nerfed, and nerfed repeatedly.

It said ‘bah-roh-ken’ on it in GIANT LETTERS and with only one testing weekend it’s no surprise the rest of the nerfing has to happen on the Live servers.

The question was NEVER going to be “will it stay as powerful as it was on reveal?” The real question is “Is it still a strong enough healer to hold a treasured seat at the table for raid compositions?” and I don’t think any of the nerfs we’ve seen are coming even close to knocking it off that throne.

Think it would have been better if they just stuck to calling traits “Traits” and the new traits “Specializations”.

This is the kind of guy who would complain if they removed Strength boosters from the game.

Loose use of language often creates problems. The use of the word “Elite” does create an expectation. This is easily countered by the fact that in saying what an Elite Spec would be, ANet stated they were a form of horizontal progression. This means they would not make a profession more powerful.

That’s been clear since the initial announcement. Unlike some of ANet’s communication, this one was clear from the get-go. So, an unfortunate choice of words for those who did not bother to read/listen to the announcements? Maybe. Fraud? Not at all.

Going by the definition of “elite” the name fits IMO “superior to the rest” having access to weapons/new profession mechanics is something normal specs lack. I think the use of elite here is just to compare it to normal specs (not make your profession elite/better)

So we bought kitten expansion to play the same classes we have been playing the past 3 years slightly differently? Not to mention ALL of the expansion content is much harder, basically making the elite spec absolutely trivial as it is just as “strong” as non-elite specs.

So we paid for an expansion to play a slightly different harder game?

Mighty fine troll thread, top form wot!

fallacy.8024:

So we bought kitten expansion to play the same classes we have been playing the past 3 years slightly differently? Not to mention ALL of the expansion content is much harder, basically making the elite spec absolutely trivial as it is just as “strong” as non-elite specs.

So we paid for an expansion to play a slightly different harder game?

Yes and thats what people wanted the core game was to easy, just 11111 everything down.

You can still do that mate nothing was taken away from you.

fallacy.8024:

So we bought kitten expansion to play the same classes we have been playing the past 3 years slightly differently? Not to mention ALL of the expansion content is much harder, basically making the elite spec absolutely trivial as it is just as “strong” as non-elite specs.

So we paid for an expansion to play a slightly different harder game?

^name so appropriate.

ReaperStriker.1982:

I’ve been using the new "elite"specializations and yet I don’t feel ‘elite’ at all. In PvE I don’t wreck stuff up more than a vanilla class. In PvP it’s the same story, why do I feel they are not as powerful as advertised? You mean to say F2P players who use F2P classes are more powerful than those who payed for the Elite Specializations? This is a kittening rip-off! You promised us power, and yet vanilla classes are equal and sometimes are more powerful than elite classes. Why does it say “elite” in the first place when it doesn’t give me the edge in combat, you know like an “elite”, someone on another level?

Choose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_games

vicious.5683:

Well, Reaper IS stronger but just because Necromancers sucks.

You don’t like/prefer base Necromancer-it most certainly doesn’t “suck” (or show informed evidence that it’s “bad.”)

As far as this thread is concerned, I am actually wary of people preferring only the new specs, and ANet should “balance” them so the non-elite spec-using builds remain useful and attractive (not necessarily saying they aren’t at the moment.)

While I love Druid, Ranger can be a stronger Profession without using it. And though the Dragon Hunter can be fun, “regular” Guardian is IMO quite complete without using it. These were meant to add welcome and useful new options to play current and future game content, rather than outright replace the older options via power-creep.

RP-wise, there’s nothing wrong with the word elite, as these require further Profession training and specialization not common to everyone, even if the end result isn’t a “more powerful” character-at least not always, and depending on build purpose.

in retrospect, they’re probably kicking themselves over naming them ‘elite’ specs. They were never going to be more powerful than the other specs. If there was ever any doubt about that, the three beta weekend events dispelled that.

They needed it to not sound like each profession gets another skill tree. Yeah doesn’t quite sound as exciting and isn’t likely to sell “boxes”.

As others have said, the specialization is “elite” compared to others since it also comes with differing mechanics, a new weapon, additional skills besides the usual trait line.

Problem came when the “elite” word got lazily propagated to the sub-profession when discussing it. Thus it gave the impression that they are better than the core profession where all it really means is it plays differently than it’s core profession and may fill a different role in a party than it’s core profession.

When you’re advertising an expansion, Elite Speciality sounds more exciting than Sub speciality or Alternate speciality or just about any other description.

Exciting names sell more.

The Work vs Reward is not balanced. Even if they left it where you couldn’t unlock it till 80, the 10 points per is incredibly steep for the marginal if any improvement. When so many people easily ignore their “elite” specialization, is it really elite any more? The amount of work is not reflective in the reward for doing it. Knock them down to 1 hp per.

When they first announced specializations and elite specializations, Tabula Rasa immediately came to mind. Perhaps it’s just me, but I never got the impression that elites were supposed to be more powerful than the standard profession; it’s more like a profession tree (with currently two levels).

I think it’s totally reasonable. If you choose to start off as a lightly armored, swift attacks guy, you can grow into a sniper, or a ninja, but not both.

I agree with the poster that said the “reward” is not worth the grind.

Imagine being a level 1 and looking forward to an “Elite spec” at level 80. Imagine finally getting to 80 and finding out you now have to grind ridiculous amount of HP to unlock the “Elite spec”. Imagine finally fully unlocking the “elite spec” and finding out that it is not any better than the same spec you have been grinding with for the past 80+ levels.

Yeah…this system is literally trash.

Elite is just an adjective to describe a shiny new product. It was never intended to be taken literally.

Quote from the HoT announcement at PAX South

And you might be wondering – the system doesn’t sound like it gives me skills or traits. What is GW2 doing to give me those for my characters? Well, the answer to that question takes us to our next major feature of Guild Wars 2 Heart of Thorns: specializations.

The specialization system will allow each profession to master a new specialization that grows that profession into something new – almost a secondary profession, if you will. So I could stop now and not tell you anything, and you could have to wait and find out, or I could tell you one of them… what do you think? [screaming] Okay… so.. as we go into the jungle, there is a rich druidic history in the jungle, so it is only fitting that rangers be able to learn and master the abilities of the druid within the jungle, and so, rangers will be able to grow themselves to become a druid. And when they do so, they will have available to them – they can use the staff weapon, which a ranger could never use before. Along with that, when a ranger becomes a druid, they will have access to a new heal skill, a new elite skill, a new set of utility skills, and most importantly, new profession mechanics that fundamentally change the way the ranger plays if they turn into a druid.

The first bit I highlighted does use sub-profession. They probably didn’t have or word to describe this specialization from the others since we also didn’t have the Trait 3.0 specialization system yet.

The second bit I highlighted does show it was their intent for the “sub-profession” should be acquired through play in the expansion area rather than an immediate unlock that some in the community believed.

Edit: Source of quote – https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2tjxe8/pax_announcement_wordforword_transcription_of/

sephiroth.4217:

Why would they be called “elite” if they weren’t stronger?

Elite:A select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society.

I fail Engrish though.

ahem:
Elite
a) singular or plural in construction : the choice part : cream <the elite of the entertainment world>
b) singular or plural in construction : the best of a class <superachievers who dominate the computer elite — Marilyn Chase>
c) singular or plural in construction : the socially superior part of society <how the French-speaking elite…was changing — Economist>
d) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence <members of the ruling elite>
e) a member of such an elite —usually used in plural <the elites … , pursuing their studies in Europe — Robert Wernick>

In my opinion, they should have just made more complete classes than doing these specializations. After all, the specializations are nothing more than alternate playstyles.

Dashingsteel.3410:

In my opinion, they should have just made more complete classes than doing these specializations. After all, the specializations are nothing more than alternate playstyles.

And thats what they were suposed to be so I guess anet did a really good jobb.

Behellagh.1468:

so it is only fitting that rangers be able to learn and master the abilities of the druid within the jungle, and so, rangers will be able to grow themselves to become a druid_.

The second bit I highlighted does show it was their intent for the “sub-profession” should be acquired through play in the expansion area rather than an immediate unlock that some in the community believed.

ANet has acknowledged that they did not do a good job conveying their intent. How would such a statement look. “We intend for players to have to earn their Elite Specs through completing specific content in the new jungle maps.” While the statement you’re focused on could mean what you believe, it could also mean “learn the traits and skills and then master playing them in the jungle.”

The thing Anet has not yet learned to do is to be explicit. Doing so limits the options of people on the internet to read into their statements. Leave people wiggle room and they’ll believe what they want to believe.

Anet failed with this expansion, and I will do everything I can to make sure my disgust is heard. The implementation of the Elite Specs should have cause someone their job for such a massive total disconnect with the player base. To even put such a system behind such a ridiculous wall has completely severed any trust I had with Anet.

I bought the collector’s edition, as I did for the original. I spent another $50 on another 4000 gems for this expansion, and after seeing what they’ve done I’m not going to spend more money. I’m basically playing till Warcraft Legion comes out at this point because Anet is simply out of touch with their established game. They seriously should have vetted their intent through the player base before dropping such a system after live launch.

10x the work for .01x the reward.

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

Anet failed with this expansion, and I will do everything I can to make sure my disgust is heard. The implementation of the Elite Specs should have cause someone their job for such a massive total disconnect with the player base. To even put such a system behind such a ridiculous wall has completely severed any trust I had with Anet.

I bought the collector’s edition, as I did for the original. I spent another $50 on another 4000 gems for this expansion, and after seeing what they’ve done I’m not going to spend more money. I’m basically playing till Warcraft Legion comes out at this point because Anet is simply out of touch with their established game. They seriously should have vetted their intent through the player base before dropping such a system after live launch.

10x the work for .01x the reward.

iirc, you’re the guy that wanted everything unlocked on your char once you hit level 80, zero extra work at all.

Except you are if you want your Elite. When HoT dropped, I was able to drop 80 tomes on my revenant, fully equip him and I’d have been ready to do whatever I wanted with him, except for the elite. To get your elite, you have to GRIND until you have enough hero points to slowly unlock your character.
Don’t want your Elite? Boom, 80 tomes and you’re done. Want your Elite? Well… get on that treadmill because you’re not going to get your completed character until you go through the guise of “player progression” or the “see we have content, now grind it”.
It’s frustrating running around with an incomplete character.

That’s not the way this game is set up. If you want to progress your char, you have to do the work on it. You probably would be better off in another game where any char progression is an automatic unlock by logging on.

Have fun playing Warcraft Legion then.