Guild Wars 2

A message to those who kick people for having too low AP: Please specify in the party description what the minimum AP is for your group.

In WoW you get kicked for low ilvl

In GW2 you get kicked for low AP.

I find the GW2 way a hell of a lot more hilarious.

I consider myself to be a fairly skilled player and it doesn’t take me more than a few minutes to attune myself to new mechanics or fights. That being said my AP is super low. Seems premature to boot people for that alone but honestly how else can you tell if someone has the appropriate skill set to complete that content? We can’t inspect each other. I’d be mad but I would understand if it was a random PUG, I guess.

My two cents.

It’s my Achievement Points from doing jumping puzzles and killing ambients, with my shield no less, that make me especially skilled in dungeons and worth keeping in PUGs.

Anet refuses to add the proper tools to see if people are geared and built correctly so even though AP is a terrible indicator people use what they have because it is still better than nothing at all.

dom.2748:

Anet refuses to add the proper tools to see if people are geared and built correctly so even though AP is a terrible indicator people use what they have because it is still better than nothing at all.

Snip………..one elitist here.

dom.2748:

Anet refuses to add the proper tools to see if people are geared and built correctly so even though AP is a terrible indicator people use what they have because it is still better than nothing at all.

Congratulations for proving the OP correct…

I am not sure how expecting tools to confirm that your party requirements are met makes one an elitist. But if that is the case then I gladly accept the title.

AP is a terrible way to judge anything.

xarallei.4279:

AP is a terrible way to judge anything.

Any way of judging a player’s efficacy in a party other than their level and seeing them play is a terrible and inaccurate way to judge, hence why the developers have all but said they will not add in a gear check in any form, ever. And even level only qualifies because most of the game content has level requirements.

Works the other direction as well; when I announced to a party that I hadn’t done CoF path 3 (at 9.5k AP), one of them were shocked.

AP is just a measure of time and breadth of your play, and won’t always reflect how well you play.

xarallei.4279:

AP is a terrible way to judge anything.

It tells (in very rough terms) general playtime, familiarity with the game & presumably with your chosen character class.
I wouldn’t boot someone based on their AP score (alone) but (anecdote inc) last night i did two fractal runs, a 26 & a 19; the 26 had all people over 5k ap and went very smoothely. the 19 group i think i would have been the only one over 2k and it was just hellish. Noone was undergeared, that i could see, but generally people died to standing in the wrong spot, led the dredge elemental everywhere but under the lava buckets, regularly failed crucial dodges…
i still agree, it’s not necessarily a good indicator but it certainly can be.

I’ve had elitists compliment me on my 14k AP. I just think “lol”. And I’m an elitist myself. I’ve seen people with under 2k AP that do great and those with 21k that do nothing but use flamethrower on their engineer and take a snooze on the dungeon floor.

Back on topic, from an elitist to fellow elitists: listen to the OP it saves everyone trouble.

Aguri.2896:

I’ve had elitists compliment me on my 14k AP. I just think “lol”. And I’m an elitist myself. I’ve seen people with under 2k AP that do great and those with 21k that do nothing but use flamethrower on their engineer and take a snooze on the dungeon floor.

Back on topic, from an elitist to fellow elitists: listen to the OP it saves everyone trouble.

Like I said, it isn’t a perfect or even good system but it is the only thing we have because of anets stubbornness.

dom.2748:

Aguri.2896:

I’ve had elitists compliment me on my 14k AP. I just think “lol”. And I’m an elitist myself. I’ve seen people with under 2k AP that do great and those with 21k that do nothing but use flamethrower on their engineer and take a snooze on the dungeon floor.

Back on topic, from an elitist to fellow elitists: listen to the OP it saves everyone trouble.

Like I said, it isn’t a perfect or even good system but it is the only thing we have because of anets stubbornness.

I agree with you. It’s unfortunate but true. But, I’d rather not see any way to actually judge people put into the game because of what it will do to the community. I have friends who do play casually and I don’t want them to be scared from the game. I find if I group with people I know or lable my parties correctly it does the trick and we need no such gear check.

Narrrz.7532:

It tells (in very rough terms) general playtime, familiarity with the game & presumably with your chosen character class.

The issue is that none of those things carry any relevance to how well you’d do in a pve dungeon. The only factor that affects your performance in pve content is how much of the solution to that specific content you’ve memorised.

What amuses me the most is that there are some people who think GW2 requires any skill at all in dungeons. Even the highest level of fractals can be completed by players with the AR and a slight amount of situational awareness.

Pressing 15 buttons doesn’t make an elitist better, it shows how lame they actually are when they look down their nose at other players instead of helping them with positive advice.

For high AP groups I usually take out my logging axe and chop down a tree to prove I can complete the logging daily if I wanted to. That usually gets my dungeon groups pretty confident that I’m a meta pro. If I really want to be nutty I may even uncover a vista but I don’t like to show off too much.

Muusic.2967:

What amuses me the most is that there are some people who think GW2 requires any skill at all in dungeons. Even the highest level of fractals can be completed by players with the AR and a slight amount of situational awareness.

Pressing 15 buttons doesn’t make an elitist better, it shows how lame they actually are when they look down their nose at other players instead of helping them with positive advice.

They don’t require skill. But skill can make them faster.

More importantly, it is already pretty well known that advice isn’t welcome. You’re usually just called names for trying to push the meta.

Kicking and LFG are both convenience tools. They come with side effects.

Personally, I think there should be two LFG tools.

• One matches players randomly and does not allow requirements to be posted. Anyone who wants to can queue, and there’s no kicking. If you get into a group you don’t like, you leave. If you leave before path/fractal completion, you’re prevented from queuing from 30 minutes.
• Second is the same tool that exists now, except the starter of the party owns the instance. Party starters who want to set reqs for the party, do so. Only the leader can kick. If he DC’s, or leaves, ownership transfers to the first adder, etc.

Or, we can keep the current system and live with the bad aspects of it — on both sides of the issues.

The OP is correct people should give AP requirements in LFG if they plan on enforcing them after people join.

Just keeps everyone joining parties they will get on best in.

I think they should add an inspect tool and dpsmeter, just to make the forums way more amusing

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It’s my Achievement Points from doing jumping puzzles and killing ambients, with my shield no less, that make me especially skilled in dungeons and worth keeping in PUGs.

Hey now!

I like having people who can do jumping puzzles to be in my Fractals groups.

We save a lot of time on uncategorized and jade maw when people aren’t falling off.

Rivindor.7258:

For high AP groups I usually take out my logging axe and chop down a tree to prove I can complete the logging daily if I wanted to. That usually gets my dungeon groups pretty confident that I’m a meta pro. If I really want to be nutty I may even uncover a vista but I don’t like to show off too much.

Sometimes I call target on my cat (not a bear) and then ping Frost Spirit. Most groups don’t give me trouble if I don’t though.

Then again I have 21,000 AP

I used to call target on Mini Liadri :p

If someone kicks you for having low AP, would you really have wanted to run with them in the first place?

I have very low AP since, other than when the infinitely repeatable dungeon achievement goes off, you don’t get AP for completing dungeons. I’ve finished every path of every dungeon, most of which were done multiple times. I regularly farm CoF, CoE, AC, Arah, and sometimes Honor of the waves. That’s in addition to farming high level fractals. If someone kicks me because my AP is low, that’s their loss.

Thankfully you can make your own party with whatever restrictions or no restrictions. Everyone can play how they wish. No problem here to solve.

Ranatoa.4869:

dom.2748:

Anet refuses to add the proper tools to see if people are geared and built correctly so even though AP is a terrible indicator people use what they have because it is still better than nothing at all.

Congratulations for proving the OP correct…

This just in. Someone wanting more proper tools to form a party of their choosing and likeness while admitting the current method is terrible is elitist. GW2 community sure does amaze me.

It funny, my gaming partner and I have recently started on goals of earning AP. Though while we still kinda low compare to some of your guys score you mention, we are hardly what you call elite also if going by AP value., lol.

sometimes that under 1k AP is just an alternate account. but yes, lfg starter can set whatever the requirement for the lfg.

running with guild mates is better if you have low AP, and if you’re worried about being kicked. less hassle, better comms. don’t have guild ? join one. there are plenty around. don’t want to join guild ? i don’t know what to say…..

I like those groups that post a required AP thats way less than mine. I join, see theirs, then tell them I don’t feel like being hampered by their badness.

AP is a stupid way to determine skill

Seems like a one-sided debate here. Let me offer a few points from the other side. I’ve posted LFGs with a minimum AP requirement though I’ve never kicked people for it before. It just serves as a deterrent to most less experienced players since I’m often short on time to run dungeons.

1. Nobody who sets an AP minimum on LFG, or kicked players from parties for low AP, has come out to say that AP is the most accurate gauge of skill and/or experience, or even a decently accurate gauge.

2. If you have “low” AP but deem yourself skillful and/or experienced, there’s no need to get offended at this practice. The fact is you’re an exception, and exceptions prove the rule. Just because you’re skillful and/or experienced doesn’t mean other low AP players are the same. The thing is most players don’t have the time to suss out whether you’re the exception or not.

3. There’s really no great way to determine a player’s skill and experience in a particular dungeon path unless we play together. Some people just don’t have the patience for that. AP is not a great way to sort the wheat from the chaff, but people just make do with what they’ve got. If you’re the exception to the “low AP = noob” rule, good for you, but there’s no need to get personally offended for a practice that applies for most other players.

I generally feel like(and i would consider my self to be an elitist ) if in experienced players didn’t so often hide or omit their lack of knowledge about an encounter or lack of gear then it would be possible to help them out rather then be forced to kick them for becoming a hurdle rather than an asset. I’m the type of player who would give gold or gear to a under stated player and take time to quickly explain fights. I am a firm believer in the “teach a man to fish” philosophy. its really hard not to come off as an elitist prick when you die a million times on an encounter because another player decided it would be better to hide their lack of knowledge or gear from you.

Hey now don’t feel bad. I get kicked for being a necro regardless of my AP.

Wouldn’t it help if you could see the achievements for how many times they cleared/farmed the dungeon :/

Although having witnessed first hand how stupid the AP barrier is, if you´re for example a big company, you have to start somehere to see who you will hire, and there it is grades because they can´t look at you when they have 3000 more applicants. Too bad that GW2 isn´t a big company, but people can´t escape their coprporate mentality, putting that stamp on everything even when it has no place there at all. On a sidenote: some movies, people, teams or corporations are successful beside being themselves, not because of themselves. Jurassic world for example was ripped a new one by some critics, but now it is the third most successful movie ever.

My first fractals “teacher” had 2.5K AP because he was a fractal purist and told me everything about them, while I was completely cluesless at first with my then 10K.

Aberrant.6749:

Thankfully you can make your own party with whatever restrictions or no restrictions. Everyone can play how they wish. No problem here to solve.

Apparently you wrong, theres another topic that OP is saying he advertises as non meta, non skip, non stack, ppl still skip stack and guess whos kicked

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

If someone kicks you for having low AP, would you really have wanted to run with them in the first place?

I have very low AP since, other than when the infinitely repeatable dungeon achievement goes off, you don’t get AP for completing dungeons. I’ve finished every path of every dungeon, most of which were done multiple times. I regularly farm CoF, CoE, AC, Arah, and sometimes Honor of the waves. That’s in addition to farming high level fractals. If someone kicks me because my AP is low, that’s their loss.

I don’t think he was too upset at the kick itself, just that the person who kicked him didn’t have the AP requirement in the LFG posting. It is a jerk move to kick someone for requirements that they don’t know about until they join.

dom.2748:

Muusic.2967:

What amuses me the most is that there are some people who think GW2 requires any skill at all in dungeons. Even the highest level of fractals can be completed by players with the AR and a slight amount of situational awareness.

Pressing 15 buttons doesn’t make an elitist better, it shows how lame they actually are when they look down their nose at other players instead of helping them with positive advice.

They don’t require skill. But skill can make them faster.

More importantly, it is already pretty well known that advice isn’t welcome. You’re usually just called names for trying to push the meta.

Then don’t push the Meta. Completing content in this game hardly needs meta party compositions or tactics-that’s just for the efficient-minded players. Whoever called you-or others -names (which I don’t agree with) was most likely not interested in an efficient run, so your/their gospel was being preached to the wrong crowd.

GW2 will never have gear-check, BTW-it doesn’t fit ANet’s vision for their game, like it or not. There’s no “proper” gear required like in many other games (Meta is not “proper”, but rather “efficient”) so it’s a waste and invites the wrong attitude to very possibly thrive in the game-which is not to say that you must necessarily have said attitude.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

If someone kicks you for having low AP, would you really have wanted to run with them in the first place?

I have very low AP since, other than when the infinitely repeatable dungeon achievement goes off, you don’t get AP for completing dungeons. I’ve finished every path of every dungeon, most of which were done multiple times. I regularly farm CoF, CoE, AC, Arah, and sometimes Honor of the waves. That’s in addition to farming high level fractals. If someone kicks me because my AP is low, that’s their loss.

Very well put. Playing with jerks who judge you blindly is hardly the reward they think it is.

That said, elitism is part of human nature, although I personally hate it. We are in a way lucky that ANet keeps it mostly in check by not giving them the tools to thrive (AP-judging is nothing in comparison with what they could do if they had their way.)

Be Elite-just don’t be a “bleep”.

dom.2748:

Anet refuses to add the proper tools to see if people are geared and built correctly so even though AP is a terrible indicator people use what they have because it is still better than nothing at all.

You can inspect someone using the API. The catch is that the person you want to inspect has to give you permission.

Hahahaha…. I have 14,000+ APs, and guess what? You wouldn’t know it if you ever tried to run with me through a Jumping Puzzle.

To me, APs are… just that APs, and to me they don’t define the skill of the player at all. There are many-a-player out there, my husband included that only have less than 6,000 AP and we both have been in the game for 3 years now.

APs to me just tell ME that… yeah, you been around the block a few times and took pictures and bought a t-shirt to prove it.

Just because my husband didn’t kill 1,000 harpies does make him a bad player.

Me? I only have the APs I have for ONE reason only. The award chests. If they weren’t there, and if they didn’t give gold and gems… my AP count would most likely be WAY down there.

I usually find that the people asking for certain specifics in a group are the ones who need to be carried through it. I just laugh when they ask to ping gear and leave the group.

This game is so easy you are literally talking about either seconds or a minute of time on encounters. It is just stupid and petty. I have wasted more time in “pro” groups waiting on them to drag Mossman to the water than a standard non-conformed group just running it.

It is a game not a job, I intend on enjoying my time not trying to rush through everything so I can buy crap to stand around all day and show off in a virtual world.

Vanthian.9267:

It is a game not a job, I intend on enjoying my time not trying to rush through everything so I can buy crap to stand around all day and show off in a virtual world.

Hear-hear!

That’s how my husband sees things. he has legendaries up the wahzoo… he has combed every inch of Tyria with me, and he much prefers to stand in DR and just watch how dumb people are in mapchat when he doesn’t feel like killing or farming something.

I disagree with OP.There will always be a way to measure other people skill.When we don’t have gear score and inspect function(gear&build),AP becomes the only way to know how knowledgable is someone with their class.90% of the time AP is correct.Anyone with low ap is almost certaintly to not know what they are doing.

There are exceptions of the rule ofcourse.High AP 5K+ may not always show how skillfull someone is but most of the time it is right.
The same is correct for the low AP also.Some times there are experienced people but most of the time low AP means new player who doesn’t know how to play their class yet.

I don’t think Recount and inspect function are a bad thing.Normally i don’t kick people.But when we have difficult time in some dungeon(Ddying to much) and i see people standing where they are not supposed to or pulling mobs which they shouldn’t i would want to see their gear and build.That won’t happen in GW2 so the only measurment i am left with is AP.

Most of the ap comes from just doing things over and over again like slayer and pvp and wvw and such. At least as I try to earn Ap it how i see it, I’ve already seen allthe points in Tyria at least once, and everything i done, i’m still under 5k. A lot of stuff is either playing new classes / races and the crafting too. nt sure how that makes you a better player, lol.

Coldtart.4785:

Narrrz.7532:

It tells (in very rough terms) general playtime, familiarity with the game & presumably with your chosen character class.

The issue is that none of those things carry any relevance to how well you’d do in a pve dungeon. The only factor that affects your performance in pve content is how much of the solution to that specific content you’ve memorised.

Well then, we should thank our lucky stars that people are incapable of lying before the run starts when faced with the question “Do you know how to do this run?”

Otherwise, folks might have to resort to some kind of quasi-reliable method for determining capability…

Substance E.4852:

Coldtart.4785:

The issue is that none of those things carry any relevance to how well you’d do in a pve dungeon. The only factor that affects your performance in pve content is how much of the solution to that specific content you’ve memorised.

Well then, we should thank our lucky stars that people are incapable of lying before the run starts when faced with the question “Do you know how to do this run?”

Otherwise, folks might have to resort to some kind of quasi-reliable method for determining capability…

Doesn’t even have to be lying. I probably thought i knew how to do AC my first run through, in our pug where we stumbled through, wiping several times and usually having at least one person go double down on each boss.

I would boot a player if he doesnt dress properly. I always bring my Eternity.

#SkinWars2

dom.2748:

I am not sure how expecting tools to confirm that your party requirements are met makes one an elitist. But if that is the case then I gladly accept the title.

You dont get to confirm. Thats the point. Its an MMO, people in the world are random.

Sometimes in life you get a crap team. Sometimes they are amazing.

Its part of the fun. Being elite means adapting and still owning and if you pull your team out of the fire your the hero. Being elitist means desperately trying to emulate this and never quite understanding what it means. Creating the highest possible chance for success because you aren’t good enough to carry the team or guide them.

Using the easy completion as a"psuedo win" whilst thinking it counts towards being elite. When its the complete opposite.

Thats the AP crowd.

The speed runners are just after a fast gold grind which is a lot different.

balte.2769:

In WoW you get kicked for low ilvl

In GW2 you get kicked for low AP.

I find the GW2 way a hell of a lot more hilarious.

Yeah, it is at least as ridiculous, if not more so.

Also, at least in WoW, the kicked person can just click a button to re-queue (assuming it’s LFR, or HC dungeons, or below) and will probably be OK next time.

That’s not to say Blizz are getting it right, either, though.

As most people seem to be avoiding the WoW non-queuable stuff, this xpac and/or just leaving the game altogether.

I think it’s more than fair to say that Blizzard have royally messed up the learning curve and natural progression that existed in MoP.

It’s one thing to not get things right, at first; that’s only human.

But, it’s quite another, to finally get them right, in one xpac and then turn around and remove all that rightness, in the next one.

Especially if you do so at the behest of a few elitist idiots.

…and they were only a few.

A few people posting the same utterly selfish and/or insane things, over and over, obsessively and Blizz listened to them. ><