Guild Wars 2

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Having ascended armor and a copied build doesn’t make you a good player. remember this.

Where oh where in my posts did I ever say “anyone with this gear set and this build is the best type of player”? I am well aware of this, as I’m sure a lot of other meta-running people are. Like I mentioned beforehand, I run with friends and guildies who know their builds, and it just so happens that the meta is better at speedclearing than non-meta builds. There is a reason why it’s used. There’s a reason why it’s called the meta. Yes, people can claim to run the meta and be horrible at doing so, but I’m talking about skilled meta players.

As for your long spiel beforehand I honestly couldn’t care less. Your achievements are of no interest to me, and I couldn’t give a kitten if you can solo Arah on a necro with only one hand and your eyes closed. I don’t care who you are or what you think you’ve achieved. Don’t bother talking down to people like you just did. I’m no scrub.

Game is being made to appeal more to MOBA gamers, who will bring levels of elitism and saltiness that the GW2 crowd is unprepared for. Enjoy the peace while you can. =)

You will always have players that want to play the best possible way, WoW does it, Eve did it, every game does it.

But you have teh right to make your own groups and invite the people you want to play with.

This is another Topic of pointless QQ’ing

Make you own LFG and type what you type of players you want to play with.

My short answer to this thread is “start your own group”. However, there are a few things I feel like addressing in more detail:

Meta team composition
While the guard/thief/ele trinity is unarguably strong and highly beneficial for certain dungeon paths, they are not required in all paths, especially not the more pug-friendly ones. In addition to this, filling the remaining two slots with a warrior and a second ele is entirely optional and mostly a matter of convenience. Unfortunately, there are plenty of players with a closed mindset who want to know about the one and only (team-)build and strictly enforce this throughout the entire game.

Seeing stuff like “meta-group guard/thief/2xele/warr” for PUG-friendly dungeons such as CoF or AC means only one thing: The person who created it is either incompetent or unnecessarily elitist, most likely both. There is really no need to run that kind of composition there for efficient runs. The best advise I have on this matter is to simply ignore these groups. It is a bad trend that developed as of lately and is best left to die.

Role of the ranger and necro
In my opinion, these two classes mostly suffer from a bad reputation they obtained in the past. These days, ranger is perfectly viable in dungeons and even the necro got some PUG-friendly mechanics added with the specialization overhaul, such as life-steal for the group helping with maintaining scholar-rune-bonus. While especially the necro may not bring as much to a group as other classes, adding this class as a 4th or 5th slot won’t hurt the overall completion time of the dungeon in a competent group.

PUG-runs and completion times
When you’re using the lfg-interface, you’re PUG-ing. This means there are always more random elements involved over playing with your friends. These random players cannot read your mind, they cannot guess which out of the several viable tactics available you are planning to employ for a specific encounter. This doesn’t mean they are bad, it only means that the group as a whole is not as much coordinated, which results in lower overall performance. Enforcing build and class restrictions won’t change that. If you want to aim for record-runs cause you’ve seen the cool kids do it on youtube, stop PUGing and find some regulars instead. We’re all better off over it.

Elitism involving 3 year old stale content
Lastly, what is there even to be elitist about? Beating the same old content a handful of minutes faster than someone else? Being better after playing the same old content for three years than a newbie doing it for the first time? GW2 is a very casual game overall and so is its content. If you’re looking for bragging-rights, the lfg-interface is not the place you want to be. There are guilds dedicated to speedruns and the like. Instead of poisoning the groups forming through the help of the lfg-interface, I suggest you try to apply there instead – you might be in for a rather harsh reality-check

MetalGirl.2370:

It’s not elitism in my eyes. If you’re casual you wouldn’t mind if dungeon takes 20 minutes or whatever. Considering the fact that game is very repeatable and there are people doing dungeon runs on daily basis, they wanna just run what they do in an hour or so… and you cannot blame them. After working same job, of course you just wanna wake up and get on with it and come home asap. After all there is equal amount of LFGs that welcome anyone.

Not to single you out specifically, but on the matter of being done as fast as possible and playing exclusively for the rewards: Since you already draw the comparison to a job, if you are looking to maximize the rewards aka gold-gain, simply work overtime at your job instead of playing dungeons and use the extra income to buy gems/gold – this will be the most efficient way from a purely rewards-oriented point of view. Tongue in cheek of course, but when reading these kind of posts, I cannot help to wonder if these people are not mistaking the game for a second job or something.

Don’t get me wrong, I like efficient runs myself, but when we arrive at the point where players are forced into specific classes and builds in order to get three year old and stale content done on a PUG-level, who can still claim to actually enjoy themselves? I don’t.

It has nothing to do with “elitism”, people simply have done the same runs so many times that they don’t want it to take longer for no reason.
Also sometimes it is not even about the time it takes to create optimal party and finish the run, it just is much much more fun and feels great when you complete a run, say fotm 50 or 40 where everyone knows their role and does what is expected from them fast and cleanly.

Loxias.2375:

Game is being made to appeal more to MOBA gamers, who will bring levels of elitism and saltiness that the GW2 crowd is unprepared for. Enjoy the peace while you can. =)

Sigh. It’s that sigh of knowing someone is right and there’s nothing to be done about it. ;_;

In reference to the OP, it helps to know how to navigate the LFG. The only time you really see rampant elitism is dungeons. WvW is generally too uncontrolled and more about numbers, PvP lumps groups together quickly. But 3-year-old content? Yeah, the elitists have it on farm and don’t care for being nice when it stands between them and creating inflation.

The advice is out there (generally at least once very two weeks :P); just look for groups or create groups with certain keywords:
all welcome
non meta
full clear
cutscenes

Those groups tend to fill fast, so you won’t see them for long on the LFG. They’ll be far less picky about classes and builds. Good luck!

ham.8209:

then maybe this will help you get the points more easy . since your not getting a very clear point at all . and maybe you should try playing gw1 as well too . it would give you a better educated understanding maybe http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Boss

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Category:Bosses_by_species

Couldn’t agreed more, this is quite literally the most insightful self-remark I’ve read today.

Petrol.9086:

I’ve encountered very little ranger/necro hate recently. But rangers generally have a bad rap because of Bearbows. You know the type. Uses nothing but longbow with a bear pet, stays far away from the group not benefiting from buffs and worst of all spams point blank shot off cool down driving everyone else crazy.

And honestly, even as a ranger, i can’t stand them either. And i’m easy going, i say come in whatever build you want as long as it contributes to the group in someway.
Bearbows just don’t. They actually make the run unplesant at worst because of their constant knockback spam.

This.

I think these types of players, and there are many of them in GW2, are going to really dislike HOT if the content is as difficult as many suspect.

Laying off the skills that drop DPS or nullify useful combo fields is something that many open world players are just terrible at. Regular runs of the maps fighting champs and farming nodes will put you in touch with these players frequently. HOT will end up nerfed to appease them just because they can’t lay off the pointless knock back or use their blocks, and reflects properly.

On topic; The TS brings up the number one reason I don’t do dungeons. Group content is no longer fun when the robotic skip this, stack here, spam this method of completion is adopted by nearly everyone. The elitist groups take over and enjoyment is sacrificed in place of efficiency.

That doesn’t make the elite players wrong in their choice of game play. Ultimately I believe it is up to Anet to make changes to the game that make all classes desired for dungeon content. Failure to do so is what leads to these issues between the player base.

At this point all you can do is create your own groups, with people you already know, and hope that they don’t kick you out.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Honestly, a large part of group comp issues comes from fire fields and might stacking. I for one would be very happy if blasting a fire field did not give might, and did something else. This would solve a lot of issues and make classes more about interesting mechanics as opposed to who can stack huge quantities of might.

In fact, I’d be fine if we just did away with might stacking completely. Buff management gameplay is far less fun that involved and interested mechanics that are no homogeneous.

Even if blasting fire fields didn’t grant might, there’s still the PS warrior. Able to stack 25 might on a group for the duration of any fight, just by /facerolling his keyboard.

chefdiablo.6791:

The elitist groups take over and enjoyment is sacrificed in place of efficiency.

Enjoyment in doing same exact same dungeons and fractals for the last 2 years?

It’s not the elitism that is the problem. It’s the parrots that follow them. The elitist are the guys I love. They put out the best and most optimal builds for you to play around with. They show their skill in youtube videos and just make it fun to browse character builds online.

There is one key thing to note though. Those elitist…the real ones most people will probably never group with. The ones that pug and put in Meta only and come on the boards and say this class is not meta and so forth are NOT the elite.

Those are the guys that if you wipe in a dungeon even with full meta will disband instantly thinking it’s not worth their time. It’s funny the elite would never actually do that. They are actually too GOOD to do that . Not that they wont wipe because mistakes happen but because they arent going to let something like that stop them.

Those are the guys that you will see with full berserkers and best (optimal traits) and wont know how to play them and be on the ground more often then not.

So a suggestion for those here. Listen to the people who claim elite on the boards here because there is some truth to their posts. Learn what is best and most optimal because some day you may want to play that way. However completely disregard anyone who says (such and such profession sucks) They are just idiots.

Also unless you like running with trolls and wannabes dont join meta only groups. It’s just not a fun experience if you’re actually any good at the game. You will find most of the time it’s you who end up soloing bosses.

When warriors are doing 46k with hundred blades why would you want anything else

DarkChaos.4326:

It seems all the time when I go to the LFG tool I see the descriptions reading “No Necros/Rangers” or “Meta only” almost all the time excluding dungeons like AC which everybody seems to know.

I put listings like that in the same class as guilds who have a 100% rep requirement (especially in PVE). If I am that upset I can always contact them but usually there are plenty of other guilds who do not need to stoop to that level.

As long as you can trio a Fotm 50 and duo/trio most of the dungeon without any exploit , Meta isn’t needed . If you do a Fotm 50 , whatever the team :

• If people are all Zerk
• Know the strat
• Know dodge

Whatever the traits , you can clear a Fotm 50 in same amount of time than a MetaGroup Guard/War/Thief/2 Ele .

Meta is a good thing for help player but it isn’t perfect there’s lot of good build as there’s some less OP . I have no problem with people who play Meta , the only trouble and how it can be call “elitism” is people who tend to overate Meta as :

Anyway → MetaPlayer > NoMetaPlayer

Meta is the potential build that can make you the more usefull in a group but
Meta don’t give you ability to dodge or ability to know a path / strat .
I saw and i’m not alone bunch of people running Meta and were always down , didn’t manage dodge or didn’t care of the group , whatever they were useless in the party .

Well didn’t want to be dismissive against Meta fanboyz . But isn’t needed to be salty over the people who don’t follow the flock of sheep if they respect you and don’t mess with your lfg .

GL&HF.

The title is misleading. Elitism isn’t harming the game. Playing the most efficient setup and getting rid of dead weight is just common sense, not elitism.

Anet’s failure to balance the game or adjust the content to make all classes useful is what is harming the game. Give necros team support, make their dps the same level as classes that do offer team support, and finish balancing conditions, problem solved, necros wanted.

I don’t care what classes, or builds join my dungeons, or other PVE related stuff.

Just KNOW the paths, and if you don’t, mention you dont know the path!

“Winging it” is silly. Elitists who tell others how to play, often times get kicked out of my parties.

Not an elitist however the elitism problem arises from lack of content

No new dungeons or content means people will be more stringent and less forgiving after 100+ runs when there is an error or mistake. These people need new dungeons to test and to push themselves furthermore the raid mechanic is completely lacking from this game. People would care less when there more inclined to fill up there raid then wait for a specific dps class. A raid gives from leeway for weaker classes and adds new content for new experiences at the same time. The burden is much higher in a 5 man dungeon than it is in a raid. However this game lacks traditional trinity roles so a raid would no doubt be a zerg. Without trinity some classes like Necro are simply left behind as what role can they possibly fill?

Nothing wrong with elitism

If people out there want to speed run stuff effeciently , they have the right to do so.

If people want to prance around, doing emotes in dungs, watching cutscenes, taking “fun, but totally inefficient builds” , they also have the right to do so.

Just remember to join the right party if your using LFG for such things…

Don’t get your panties in a wad because someone posted “no bearbows/necros”. They created the group, they can create what they would ideally like in the group. If you don’t want to abide by said restrictions, so be it, just ignore them and make your own party that says “casual run”. I’ve seen plenty of LFGs that are casual runs/noobie friendly. They are perfectly fine, just as speed run groups are fine.

I don’t see the problem here.

CureForLiving.5360:

Lucius.2140:

To be honest, im not in favor of elitism, but its unavoidable. If the classes were better balanced in pve there will be less elitism, thats for sure, but it will still exist.

I’ll have to disagree to a certain extent. No class is horrible, some classes are better but it’s not as if bringing a necro or ranger with you into a dungeon is a massive handicap or a certain wipe.
I’d argue it is a perception of these classes which is the problem. The elitism is mostly based on opinion than fact.

Necros are actually an extremely selfish class. When the META relies on each person pulling their weight as far as team support and damage goes then a selfish class isn’t wanted. As far as Rangers go. Nobody wants them because the fact is most of them ARE bad. Most rangers won’t stay within boon range, they won’t switch out of longbow in close range (which neuters their damage), and they won’t for the love of all that is good stop hitting skill 4.

Or you know, ArenaNet could fix the whole Necro doing 40-60% less damage than other classes in optimal PVE situations. I seen F2P games with better balance.

Right?

Substatic.6958:

Or you know, ArenaNet could fix the whole Necro doing 40-60% less damage than other classes in optimal PVE situations. I seen F2P games with better balance.

Right?

I don’t think that’s the issue, so changing how necro works isn’t going to fix it. It’s an issue of perception: for the typical PUG, it doesn’t matter that much if it’s 4 necros or 0; it matters more if the players understand the dungeon.

Aren’t mesmers one of the best boon stripping classes in the game also? Just didn’t see that mentioned and the sword auto attack strips boons just from that.

It’s just strange to me because it feels like the meta isn’t positive where mesmers are concerned. I frequently see no necros/rangers listed, but sometimes feel unwelcome on a mesmer as well (and other times seem perfectly welcome)…. which is confusing as all hell.

Pride.1734:

Even if you don’t have the time you can just say: “copy the build from Metabattle and learn to use it if you want people to like you in dungeons”.

Then watch as they follow the first half and forget about the second half?

Wait whut? Skrits have elitist complex to?

“my thing is more shinny than yours” complex? … im talking about persercursors.

CD673141-975B-42E9-8500-F0FEFF861A7D:

Aren’t mesmers one of the best boon stripping classes in the game also? Just didn’t see that mentioned and the sword auto attack strips boons just from that.

It’s just strange to me because it feels like the meta isn’t positive where mesmers are concerned. I frequently see no necros/rangers listed, but sometimes feel unwelcome on a mesmer as well (and other times seem perfectly welcome)…. which is confusing as all hell.

Probably a lot more to do with Mesmer utility being better in some instances than others.

It’s always nice seeing these threads where people make increasingly longer post about why either excluding people is not excluding people or why people shouldn’t play GW2 the way they want with people of a like mind.

Both necros and rangers are great classes. Rather have either join than a sig warrior.

I wouldn’t call myself a full elitist, but I’d definitely say I’m well on my way, except for my guildmates (I run with them for fun, not for farm).

If I advertise something as a speed run, I expect my teammates to all be running at least borderline-meta gear for their class. As for what class they take, I really don’t care, as long as it does damage.

I also don’t join pugs on my ranger, which right now is my backup-main class. People don’t expect me to be good, and I don’t blame them, given how many very bad rangers there are out there, point blanking trash mobs out of aoes, or dancing around with their bearbow thinking that it’s a BAMFing pet or something.

As a ranger, unless you’re going with people who know your play style, all I can say is ‘do story and make your own pug’. I don’t have any trouble getting one going, even in speed runs.

That said, I have a real problem with pugs who don’t advertise as speed clears or what-have-you expecting their pugs to run meta builds. Personally, when I don’t specify ‘speed’ on my pug groups, you’re welcome to run whatever tickles your skritt.

TL;DR: if you get kicked a lot, make your own group. If you want a speed run, freaking advertise it as such. If you want a casual run, don’t join advertised speed runs.

I have sympathy for good rangers because bad ones give us such a bad name.

My guild leader is dragging me on a dungeon run now, so I’ll adjust/respond on the thread once i get a chance. I really like this topic, so I’ll be sure to pay another visit.

Shiawase Baka.6182:

I wouldn’t call myself a full elitist, but I’d definitely say I’m well on my way, except for my guildmates (I run with them for fun, not for farm).

If I advertise something as a speed run, I expect my teammates to all be running at least borderline-meta gear for their class. As for what class they take, I really don’t care, as long as it does damage.

I also don’t join pugs on my ranger, which right now is my backup-main class. People don’t expect me to be good, and I don’t blame them, given how many very bad rangers there are out there, point blanking trash mobs out of aoes, or dancing around with their bearbow thinking that it’s a BAMFing pet or something.

As a ranger, unless you’re going with people who know your play style, all I can say is ‘do story and make your own pug’. I don’t have any trouble getting one going, even in speed runs.

That said, I have a real problem with pugs who don’t advertise as speed clears or what-have-you expecting their pugs to run meta builds. Personally, when I don’t specify ‘speed’ on my pug groups, you’re welcome to run whatever tickles your skritt.

TL;DR: if you get kicked a lot, make your own group. If you want a speed run, freaking advertise it as such. If you want a casual run, don’t join advertised speed runs.

I have sympathy for good rangers because bad ones give us such a bad name.

My guild leader is dragging me on a dungeon run now, so I’ll adjust/respond on the thread once i get a chance. I really like this topic, so I’ll be sure to pay another visit.

perfect response for a comment, what grinds my gears is those people that Quote Optimised teams saying you need this and this , this and that .

In a topic which is asking for or If a weapon is Viable then they somehow Drag it into a " its not Optimised and does not fit this concept so its worthless" and that really Peeves me off.

OP doesn’t play other classes ? what a waste of character slots….

certain classes excel in one game mode , but not in another. dungeon is one mode that ranger do not excel in, but they kick kitten in pvp.

so, play other classes as well, they are all fun.

Twitch.4635:

Basically it comes down to what Lucius said, why run necro/ranger when I can run war thief and ele and be done with the dungeon rotations as fast as possible? I can promise you that the majority of people don’t run dungeons for the fun factor anymore it’s all about that coinage.

well a lot of people, like myself, do not find pve fun, and use it to fund other areas of the game.
my simple solution is to just run with friends, I don’t run enough dungeons for it to really matter anyway.

IrisTheCasual.3742:

The prejudice can be ironic sometimes. This conversation happened when a pug for level baby 19 fractal was formed.

So this was a matter of… ELEtism…

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I always laugh when I hear people say, “No rangers!” in any group. It’s part of the reason I tend to solo everything instead. But, ironically, I tend to be the last person standing in any group I join and rezzing everyone afterwards.

But, all that said, I’d never let the whims or dislikes of other people dictate what class I play.

I suggest you do the same.

Yeah and that tends to be because rangers most of the time are people who are actually ranging bosses. If this happens to be you then duh you’re the last one to go down. Proximity is a huge factor in the way mobs aggro on this game.

If this isn’t you then that’s another story but this is the #1 reason for rangers getting as much hate as they do, not because of lack of DPS or utility.

The class itself just attracts bad players most of the time. It makes me feel sorry for the people playing ranger that are actually good players tbh.

Purple Miku.7032:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I always laugh when I hear people say, “No rangers!” in any group. It’s part of the reason I tend to solo everything instead. But, ironically, I tend to be the last person standing in any group I join and rezzing everyone afterwards.

But, all that said, I’d never let the whims or dislikes of other people dictate what class I play.

I suggest you do the same.

Yeah and that tends to be because rangers most of the time are people who are actually ranging bosses. If this happens to be you then duh you’re the last one to go down. Proximity is a huge factor in the way mobs aggro on this game.

If this isn’t you then that’s another story but this is the #1 reason for rangers getting as much hate as they do, not because of lack of DPS or utility.

The class itself just attracts bad players most of the time. It makes me feel sorry for the people playing ranger that are actually good players tbh.

Yeah, I’d have to say, survival isn’t a good gauge of pretty much anything, as there are too many variables to tell if it’s a result of good play as a standalone.

It’s more a combination of damage(a melee weapon is a must for this), party buffs (spotter/frost spirit), and utility (Nature spirit, other revival skills, quickness, etc).

In fact, in some/many instances, a bad ranger’s survival capability is THE REASON a they are surviving long enough to res their teammates—by playing safe and shooting at range, their damage and mechanics are bad to the point of being detrimental to the party’s success.

In a non-speedrun, I tend to just roll my eyes and go along with it. Sure, they’re bad, but it’s not like I’ve never been bad. I’m still bad with a fair bit of content. Heck, I’ve played some really wonky builds before, but changed my playstyle over time.

In a speedrun, though, that’s unacceptable and needs to be corrected.

rotten.9753:

Torolan.5816:

???
How is that not elitism? That´s basically like ousting the middlefield players from a soccer club because they neither defend or are out to make goals, that being the respective jobs of defenders and attackers.

It’s because players are not excluded based on their qualities but based on their profession which can be easily changed. Switch to e.g. ele and you are no longer excluded yet your intrinsic qualities as a player have not changed.

But, some people enjoy playing certain classes and have 0 interest in others.

No one should ever have to switch classes, just to take part in a game adequately.

That is laughably terrible design.

So, by saying that, you are saying (by default) that Anet are terrible designers, whether you meant to, or not.

Obviously, I’m excluding a group balance scenario, here.

But, if it’s just “No x and y class.”, that is just ludicrous.

Anet need to sort this out.

Rangers need to be made better and given better group utility.

Blizzard managed it, in WoW, a few years ago; so, Anet could too, if they wanted to.

…and they really should want to, as Hunters/Rangers are a popular class in games, especially with newer players.

So, if they are sub-par in a game, that game will inevitably be less popular than it would otherwise be.

Also, they should add a dungeonfinder queue system, for people who want it, so that a culture of “run with what you get” is nurtured.

As opposed to the current mess.

Shiawase Baka.6182:

Purple Miku.7032:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I always laugh when I hear people say, “No rangers!” in any group. It’s part of the reason I tend to solo everything instead. But, ironically, I tend to be the last person standing in any group I join and rezzing everyone afterwards.

But, all that said, I’d never let the whims or dislikes of other people dictate what class I play.

I suggest you do the same.

Yeah and that tends to be because rangers most of the time are people who are actually ranging bosses. If this happens to be you then duh you’re the last one to go down. Proximity is a huge factor in the way mobs aggro on this game.

If this isn’t you then that’s another story but this is the #1 reason for rangers getting as much hate as they do, not because of lack of DPS or utility.

The class itself just attracts bad players most of the time. It makes me feel sorry for the people playing ranger that are actually good players tbh.

Yeah, I’d have to say, survival isn’t a good gauge of pretty much anything, as there are too many variables to tell if it’s a result of good play as a standalone.

It’s more a combination of damage(a melee weapon is a must for this), party buffs (spotter/frost spirit), and utility (Nature spirit, other revival skills, quickness, etc).

In fact, in some/many instances, a bad ranger’s survival capability is THE REASON a they are surviving long enough to res their teammates—by playing safe and shooting at range, their damage and mechanics are bad to the point of being detrimental to the party’s success.

In a non-speedrun, I tend to just roll my eyes and go along with it. Sure, they’re bad, but it’s not like I’ve never been bad. I’m still bad with a fair bit of content. Heck, I’ve played some really wonky builds before, but changed my playstyle over time.

In a speedrun, though, that’s unacceptable and needs to be corrected.

What needs to be corrected is this whole skip>permastack>melee cheese.

Playing ranged should be equally viable (and not detrimental to the group, in any way) and the game should be redesigned to reflect that.

Closing down viable player options is, again, terrible design.

Not everyone wants to play melee; nor should they have to (or feel they should have to).

Once again, Anet will be losing players because of this situation and that is (obviously) bad.

emikochan.8504:

Only reason you see those lfgs is that the non-specific lfgs fill instantly and disappear, while the people waiting for a specific combination of classes will have to wait longer.

This is especially amusing with people that want to speed run, since it often takes longer to make the party than the time saved.

As someone who forms non-specific LFGs, this is a lie. The “80s zerk meta no necro” groups fill much faster than “casual” or “all welcome” groups. This is partly due to a lot of the dungeon running community being like minded. This is partly due to lazy players who just want to be carried. This is partly due to the acclaimed prestige of running in a highly exclusive party. This is partly due to players having alts that they can switch to, since after 3 years no one just plays one class.

When players see casual run they think “underleveled newbs that I”ll have to babysit". Even if they don’t want to run zerk meta gear, they’ll still join those parties to not have to deal with other casuals. It is sad how often it is that a zerk party will disband in the middle of the run because someone rightly notices that half the players aren’t in zerk gear. It is also sad how often it is I"ll see a casual group will disband upon seeing a ranger/necro/non-80 in the team. They’ll join up, then an underleveled ranger joins, and then they leave. What follows is then a slew of people joining, then leaving
immediately. I’ll go through over a dozen players before actually getting a casual party.

I don’t know its formal name, so I’ll call it the Groucho Marx dilemma. Based on the famous line “I don’t want to belong to any club that would have me as a member”, there is a systematic problem where casual players don’t want to run in a casual party. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the only people who end up joining a casual run are underleveld newbs who don’t know better.

azizul.8469:

OP doesn’t play other classes ? what a waste of character slots….

certain classes excel in one game mode , but not in another. dungeon is one mode that ranger do not excel in, but they kick kitten in pvp.

so, play other classes as well, they are all fun.

Is this confirmed by Arena Net? Link? Or are you just making excuses for the beyond terrible PVE balance? What other classes perform so badly in other content that they are at times told not to join?

Hopefully HoT Reaper and GS fixes this.

I don’t buy “necros are a selfish class”. Ok, they aren’t Guards, but they can bring mass heals, mass protection, mass condi removal, blind fields, plus they are great vul and weakness stackers.

They are also incredibly tanky. Who is normally ressing your glass ele or mes when they have been ganked by Mai Trin? It’s normally a necro. I would rather bring a decent necro than a sig warrior or a theif who keeps dying, any day of the week.

[quote=5389084;Tigaseye.2047What needs to be corrected is this whole skip>permastack>melee cheese.

[/quote]

Do you know why people do this? because they have been playing the SAME content for nigh on 3 years. Why wouldn’t you skip???

Mitch.4781:

Do you know why people do this? because they have been playing the SAME content for nigh on 3 years. Why wouldn’t you skip???

I know why they’re doing it.

I’m (mainly) blaming the game, here; not the player.

The whole problem of elitism would actually disappear if people who farm content for shinies weren’t kittenheads to each other. I don’t run all those meta speed parties, so I don’t destroy their perfect dungeon run plan. However… claiming loud and wide that if you are an experienced Player you have to go full glass zerk meta hurr durr and if you do not, you are a filthy casual scrub kinda itches my ‘block this kitten’ button. Guess what, there are people who play since the beginning and still have fun running the same stale content, and do not need/want to farm it. Are they ‘filthy casuals’ because of that? That seems to be the mindset – at least if we were to visit and judge by the ‘Dungeons’ subforum :P. This is the nature of elitism in the game. The problem is self-ego stroking and invaluating other players just because they don’t follow the meta, not the viability of rangers or necros. The new challenging content will make it even more jarring and you will be a casual if you can’t finish some imaginary super-hyper hard instanced raid or anything that we’ll get on the table…

Tigaseye.2047:

Playing ranged should be equally viable (and not detrimental to the group, in any way) and the game should be redesigned to reflect that.

Anet would have to redo half GW2 for that. Support has a small range, for example guardian has usually 600 range, PS Warr 600. You have to stay in range of support, you can’t use your range to its max. Anet would have to increase all group buffs to ~1200 or more range. Combofields are sometimes very small, they would need a similar range.
All attacks are aoe, so you want to pull all enemies into one place. A ranged player could mess this up. So Anet would need a different KI which is not stackable – and/or they have to remove all/nearly all AOE skills from the game.
Even Skills like WoR force player to stay close to each other.
GW2 is not a game for people who like to play ranged all the time. Some bosses are even designed to force player into melee (last two bosses in aether for example).

“Elitism” really, REALLY is not the issue in GW2 that some forum members are trying to make out. It simply isn’t. This game is not WOW, where you can’t come unless you have gear score of a certain amount, recount, vent, add ons, knowing every single thing about encounters etc etc. It simply isn’t.

Yes there are speed runners that have certain requirements but they are such a small minority compared to the player base at large. This game is beyond casual; especially for an mmo. You can create a dungeon group and fill it rapidly.

People are trying to create an issue which simply doesn’t exist.

Why do we need such threads every couple of days? There are a kitten ton out who say the same as you said.

Look for ‘80 exp’ parties and you won’t have any problems. They are usually a bit easier to play with and not much slower than a metazerker group. I run ranger from time to time and didn’t have any issues.

Purple Miku.7032:

The class itself just attracts bad players most of the time. It makes me feel sorry for the people playing ranger that are actually good players tbh.

You are fully aware you just proved the OP’s point about ‘elitism’ aren’t you?

Shiawase Baka.6182:

In fact, in some/many instances, a bad ranger’s survival capability is THE REASON a they are surviving long enough to res their teammates—by playing safe and shooting at range, their damage and mechanics are bad to the point of being detrimental to the party’s success.

The mere fact that anyone is defending that they being dead while the ranger is still alive and rezzes everyone else afterwards . . . yet the ranger is the one who is ‘bad’ . . . well . . . that says a lot more than you know.

And it’s a huge reason I solo content in Guild Wars 2. But let me understand your logic: You’re dead, but I’m alive and successfully completing the content, while you could not, yet I’m the bad player and harmful to the team because I didn’t bring enough damage to the table? Do you have any idea how beyond mind-boggling that sounds? You know you bring no damage to the table if you’re dead, right?

Survival is the key to measuring success in any MMO much less a dungeon run. You can’t complete anything if you fail or wipe. And, in most cases, failure is death. Yet, somehow, that’s not a detriment to a group? Surviving is? Really? We’re debating that?

How that got turned on its head is again beyond mind-boggling.

Jockum.1385:

Tigaseye.2047:

Playing ranged should be equally viable (and not detrimental to the group, in any way) and the game should be redesigned to reflect that.

Anet would have to redo half GW2 for that.

Well, yes, they would have to redo how some things work.

IMO, they were badly designed in the first place.

There are a lot of bad ranger players indeed. Most I see run around camping LB #1 and bear. They don’t do anything else. It makes me mad to see them everywhere.

much has been said but no one actually mention or link the viable dungeon build for ranger/necro in this thread… someone, pls ?

..or fix monsters AI so they dont break their neat formations and stand on top of each other via line-of-sight exploit/just let you run past them like that makes any kitten sense.
That would be a start. Then some balancing towards fire fields would be cool, because while they exist in their current shape there is literally no reason to have any utilities that give might. +other things, but thats another topic.

The real annoying thing is when Meta people enter ‘all welcome’ team and start whine about team comp, and whine about other proffs, and whine about how others play until they leave or get kicked. Or when you enter some other team just to find out they expect full zerker, Meta build, and actually you should switch proff as well, on the lfg which only requirement was ‘lvl 80’.
So far my experience with Meta followers was entirely negative one. Being in a guild with a lot of new people fresh to the game i know that a lot of them had bad first impression of gw2 dungs because of the Meta community.
I really wish i just had a bad luck in the matter and its not as wide and toxic as it seems to be..