Guild Wars 2

Or “Let’s nip the bloody elitism in the bud”.

I’m not sure if I am the only one who has noticed, but there is a very nasty little trend developing on forums and ingame. I’m talking about the elitism and entitlement shown by certain players, particularly in terms of PvE.

This was one of the things that pushed me away from WoW – the horribly fragmented and exclusionary community.

I was under the impression that GW2, as more of a sandbox, had a more welcoming community. However in the 3 weeks since I started playing I’ve seen:

- People threatening to kick others because the class they play isn’t strong enough.
- People threatening to kick others because they are using a less than optimal MH weapon.
- Gear requirements on dungeon groups.
- People supporting certain classes being harder to level/play than others ‘because noobs’.

Basically the whole ‘everyone should play my way and only my way and I will actively block any attempt to do otherwise’.

Today this was especially obvious when the obnoxious sonic periscopes were nerfed in lowbie areas and we got wonderful responses like :

Just goes to show that ANET is babying the casuals once again.

Why would ANET remove the only challenge that PvE offered? I should get compensated for doing the monthly in “hard mode”.

Sigh…

If you want specific harder content made for you, then ask for it. But, as a lowbie who died several times to turret blasts out of nowhere when I first started, stop complaining about difficulty changes that don’t affect you in the least.

Let’s knock off this elitism now, so that this doesn’t become another one of ‘those’ MMO communities.

Developing? It’s always been in gaming communities and this one is no different. Call it human nature but communities will always fragment into sets of people who have similar ideas/likes. Call it tribalism maybe. I’m not a fan of it either. My experiences in other games have caused me to put off learning dungeons because of it, even though there are plenty of people in this with the patience to teach.

i noticed that “elitism” got outta control during the last 2 months.
if i join a group and if getting asked for my gear, build or someone telling me how much my profession will fail on [insert content here], i simply leave.

the weird part is, they choose always the easiest way, because it’s the fastest (profit wise).

but at least it doesn’t reached a critical level yet…i’ve played games were i constantly got n00b-stamped when saying, that i have actually fun playing.

elitists = boneheads.

good news: there are enough big “fun-guilds” for all kind of activities out there, let it be serious WvWvW or just helping out and teaching at dungeons – without any commitments like ts³ or daily-logins.
pick-up groups gonna pick-up and join one of those guilds instead.

I agree for the most part. It’s okay if everyone has their opinions, and if you prefer to play one way or another, but some people are so rude about it. Try discussing, rather than arguing…

Starbird.4029:

- People threatening to kick others because they are using a less than optimal MH weapon.

What is a MH weapon?

kokiman.2364:

Starbird.4029:

- People threatening to kick others because they are using a less than optimal MH weapon.

What is a MH weapon?

Mainhand…

Anyway, its still kitten the quest for berserkers.

I have dealt with the gaming snobs through years of multiplayer play in various games. Some do deserve their place, but usually not…

A small portion of the elitists are people that are dedicated, efficient farmers that don’t want lesser skilled players slowing them down. Then again, I guess it’s natural to want others to pull their own weight— maybe a bit too serious, but I can respect and understand that. Nobody likes uncooperative teammates.

A large portion of elitists are people that think they are dedicated, efficient farmers. These people continually harp on the casual scum but are just mad that they spent hundreds of hours trying to perfect a cookie cutter build and not going anywhere. Thus, they hate noobs with a passion, because those people put so little effort yet there isn’t that much to differentiate them. Considering the nature of DR and the developer’s tendency to seemingly punish people for actually trying to play the game, the problem is compounded. In general, this group can easily be superior to the average player but never really improve since they think there’s only one proper way to play. They are the first to cry as the game evolves, causing their cookie cutter to drop in the trash. But they’ll stay around, sometimes still playing the game with decent skill but get increasingly bitter at newbies.

An equally large portion, that sometimes overlaps with the second, are terrible players that simply get carried by their teammates and think they are good as a result. They might have been skillful in the past, but their complacency caused it to decay. They need to team with the best, to compensate for their own deficiencies and can’t work with noobs. In reality, they are unable to lead or think on their own. Thus, having a less skilled player is bad for them and they lash out. Eventually, they run out of ways to hide their badness and end up quitting, typically by leaving a huge note to the community on why the game and its players suck and how they are a victim in a cruel world that won’t help them. Every time you hear “I’ve been playing since beta, you noob!”, you might be talking to one of these.

These later two groups will always go on about “challenge” and how the game is getting dumbed down at the expense of it, however when faced with actual adversity, they are the first to complain. Rather than try to salvage a situation with a lousy team and thus overcoming something, they will instead spend all their time berating whoever is in range, because, you know, it’s never their fault. In the end, they never learn to really improve.

Thus most can be ignored, unless they can reason out real arguments.

I, on the other hand, am a casual scum. But at least I don’t pretend that I’m anything else. That being said, it is not a good idea to act so defensive when another claims that one’s configuration is suboptimal or to ignore all advice just because one wants to do it their way, especially in a team setting.

TL;DR I respect those that actively study the game’s mechanics and devise strong strategies from it. I respect those that have their routine practiced to a tee and work together like a machine. I don’t respect those entitled tryhards that have to put down other people because they’ve hit a wall.

Find a guild of like minded people and play with them. Make your own community. Solve your own problem. That’s my advice.

I play with my guild 90% of the time and never have the problems you’re describing.

Vayne.8563:

Find a guild of like minded people and play with them. Make your own community. Solve your own problem. That’s my advice.

I play with my guild 90% of the time and never have the problems you’re describing.

That sounds like good advice on the surface, but unfortuantly ‘a guild of like minded people’ isn’t something that just falls into your lap. It can take months or years of searching, and on some servers it’s just not possible.

I am in the market for a decent guild though …:)

Starbird.4029:

Vayne.8563:

Find a guild of like minded people and play with them. Make your own community. Solve your own problem. That’s my advice.

I play with my guild 90% of the time and never have the problems you’re describing.

That sounds like good advice on the surface, but unfortuantly ‘a guild of like minded people’ isn’t something that just falls into your lap. It can take months or years of searching, and on some servers it’s just not possible.

I am in the market for a decent guild though …:)

Well for one thing you have to define your play style. For example…

I’m an immersion player. I love being immersed in the world. I like PVe more than PvP, but I’ll play WvW sometimes, just to break stuff up. I’ve even done some PvP. So I looked for a guild that was PVe-centric, that did some WvW, but wasn’t elitist. Inclusive rather than exclusive. That was my personal requirement.

It also helps to have casual people who play for fun, not “to win”. We’ll get all the content done…I’m not in a rush. It’s fine.

That’s what I looked for, and yes, was lucky enough to find.

I +1 everything ArchonWing said. Eloquently put.

You’ll find elitism in every game. And in most games it’s very easy to walk away from said elitism.

I’m avoiding COF1 like the plague and don’t climb too high in fractals. I know where the worst of the worst is hiding in this game, so I just don’t go there.

Starbird.4029:

Vayne.8563:

Find a guild of like minded people and play with them. Make your own community. Solve your own problem. That’s my advice.

I play with my guild 90% of the time and never have the problems you’re describing.

That sounds like good advice on the surface, but unfortuantly ‘a guild of like minded people’ isn’t something that just falls into your lap. It can take months or years of searching, and on some servers it’s just not possible.

I am in the market for a decent guild though …:)

With that way of thinking it might actually take you that long. Our thoughts always attract. Like others stated as long as there are human beings, there will always be different set of people, some may fall within your tolerance category while others won’t. On a mmo where hundred thousands and even millions of players gather, you can’t expect everyone or most of them to be as you want.

it would be nice to see a lil less trash, maybe a few more minibosses and more ways to stop speedruns via skipping 90% of the dungeon. atm thats my biggest issue, the content is so easily ignored and run past most of the dungeon barely gets seen.

or make mobs never drop agro in dungeons >:D. id love to see the tears of speed run clearers after a few wipes of the entire dungeon on them.

also some mechanics that punish pure dps groups. force some utility options without forcing people into certain classes.

Thanks god, I’m from a french europeen server.

Dawdler.8521:

kokiman.2364:

Starbird.4029:

- People threatening to kick others because they are using a less than optimal MH weapon.

What is a MH weapon?

Mainhand…

Anyway, its still kitten the quest for berserkers.

What is a mainhand in GW2?

I was running Ascalon Catacombs a few days back, got a quick pug going, all warrior or guardian. Greatsword.. basicly go in and smash everything.
i went with my support/phantasm mesmer, because hey, thats how i like to play my game and i am usually going pretty far with it.
We went way 1, the one where we have to defend the one guy, while destroying all the skelk burrows.

this has become significantly harder after the AC update patch, but we had all the damage, right?
well not really, we failed several times, because the NPC died.
While the others were headbound on kill mode, jumping from burrow to buttow, i tried t balance between them and the defender to help out, since my damage was less then theirs and i could use knockback and phantaasm to do my job, without beeing there.
Like you should

Still i was asked to change my class into an warrior or an ele, since hey.. we need damage…

this part is no easy one and needs some coordination. but if people die there, because they are hellbound on “kill kill kill” with their GS, not utulizing anything else (i took my time to observe them after a few times, only in, spam and out…), i dont really know…

we somehow managed it in the end and after that it was easy again. however the constant question: can you switch to a better or stronger class was really annoying

If someone needs to be good at a video game (or so OCD that they practically live in the game) in order to feel better than other people, then they must really suck at real life. My advice to them: get some friends, go play some sport, go to the gym, go shopping, work hard at your studies/job, GTFO of the computer room, or get some counseling.

To the OP: I’m not fussed about it. I just don’t play with people like that. There are plenty of nice folks out there who are great at the game, and very, very respectful of others. Find some of them.

To ArenaNet (and other studios) – don’t cater to elitists. They’re going to find a way to be jerks no matter what you do, so just make a fun game that encourages friendly cooperation.

Starbird.4029:

I was under the impression that GW2, as more of a sandbox, had a more welcoming community. However in the 3 weeks since I started playing I’ve seen:

- People threatening to kick others because the class they play isn’t strong enough.
- People threatening to kick others because they are using a less than optimal MH weapon.
- Gear requirements on dungeon groups.
- People supporting certain classes being harder to level/play than others ‘because noobs’.

GW2 does have a welcoming community, but you will have to do some work for yourself to find the part that suits your needs (Maybe a Guild). Although you say you played 3 weeks only, it sounds like you tried joining a CoF speedrun. In any event the problem arises because you don’t look for a specific group. If you just go “LFG”, chances are that you will end up with some “elitist” team because it is these who run the dungeons over and over, hence you need a group who is not farming the dungeon into oblivion. If you simply typed “First timer LFG” you would have none of these problems. No one will complain about class, no one will check your gear or complain about your choice of weapon. But on the other hand you will have to expect the same from your party members. And as such you will have a much harder time completing whatever you signed up for, which is the consequence of not using appropriate weapons for the situation, not having exotic gear and a party possibly not knowing the mechanics of the dungeon.

Now the last part sounds like something that would only happen in PvP and well.. Some classes are easier to get a lucky kill on (you know it thieves, catching someone with their pants down) – But all classes allow a great deal of improvement depending on your skill. But honestly, you should be able to ignore people telling your class is a noob class. It’s PvP. It’s basically kitten flowing across the map whenever someone dies. But these players are safe to put on your ignore list. They won’t have anything constructive to say.

Starbird.4029:

Basically the whole ‘everyone should play my way and only my way and I will actively block any attempt to do otherwise’.

No. Not in the way you mean it. But there is a great difference whether people are running a dungeon for farming or for completion. If a completion group can run a dungeon in 40 minutes while a farming group can do it in 15 (8 minutes for CoF), you are blocking that farming group from playing the way they want. If you join a farming run meant for effectiveness and try to join with your masterwork gear.. Well why would you even join? Once again, find a party that suits your need.

Starbird.4029:

If you want specific harder content made for you, then ask for it. But, as a lowbie who died several times to turret blasts out of nowhere when I first started, stop complaining about difficulty changes that don’t affect you in the least.

We have this. It is called dungeons. Dungeons are by no means casual from most perspectives. I always let anyone who wants to join into my party, because as you I don’t find elitist groups fun and like the added challenge from bringing a few casual players. But this also mean that quite often I have experienced not being able to finish the run. This is a slightly different perspective, but consider that sometimes players won’t be able to complete a dungeon (at least not without a lot of added trouble) because one player does not know the mechanics or are simply not geared for it. Try asking people running Arah if it is easy bringing a few unexperienced players for the Lupi fight.

Let’s knock the “Im entitled to join any farming/speedrunning group” for now please. Go “Unexperienced LFG”, “First timer LFG” or whatever phrase you like. You will never see the problem again. In experience you will find a completion-group (running for first time), or a farming group who will carry you but be patient – They know the premises on which you joined. You will however also encounter parties giving up, even at the end boss. In this situation you should remember to try being the instance owner so you always can invite new party members and keep trying.

Good luck out there, and no offense meant. Trying to put another perspective on.

Starbird.4029:

Vayne.8563:

Find a guild of like minded people and play with them. Make your own community. Solve your own problem. That’s my advice.

I play with my guild 90% of the time and never have the problems you’re describing.

That sounds like good advice on the surface, but unfortuantly ‘a guild of like minded people’ isn’t something that just falls into your lap. It can take months or years of searching, and on some servers it’s just not possible.

I am in the market for a decent guild though …:)

Getting a guild is a varying experience. I got into mine just about barely a month after I start playing and havent left since. But I do understand that such experiences can vary a lot. This is true of finding even groups to run dungeon with. Even in such ’like-minded guild" there are times we have to pug, and there we get exposed to the…“prevailing culture” of the moment :P

If you are on Ehmry Bay server I’d recommend you the guild I’m in. We do lots of PvE stuff, dungeons, missions etc, and some WvW as well as sPvP weekly events. That aside we also have a supprtive community where we help each other out to lvl toons, crafting skills, map clearing etc. I’d even go so far as to say my guild leader utterly despise the growing elitist dungeon running/farming trend.

also….. An elitist sandbox. Somehow that reminds me of EVE Online more. :P

Actually I have noticed the complete opposite. I have noticed most runs people do not like skipping when I ask them to skip (SE P3, After first boss “Skip trash please” They reply no we will die, please kill etc").

I also notice alot of non wars/guards/mesmers in runs, yes even CoF p1. I have RARELY RARELY seen it be a problem for most teams.

When people have pinged gear for whatever reason, I have observed it to be some of the worst ideas personally I could ever think of but I have never told them to change, because its not going to acheieve anything.

Ill name ideal weapons for 3 classes, tell me how many people you see running them, at least in my groups, its the minority. This is to achive max dps which I guess your considering elitist.
Guard: Staff/GS. War: GS/Axe-Mace. Mes: GS/1h-Focus(To pull for warriors to dps)

Players are just trying to show the lowbies with Periscopes tough love. Learn stability early, itll pay off.

Warriors should be easier to level in PvE, surely you arent playing one for PvP. And if thats what a player likes/enjoys with that class, why shouldn’t Anet tailor to that by making PvE Content easier for them, remember thats why they made it in the first place.

Alot of the things you say are CoF p1 SPEED runs only, which is a tiny tiny portion. The periscopes is different, but really, thats not being elitist. You cant be serious saying someone who wants a challenge is being elitist by saying they shouldnt of nerfed periscopes. Id gladly help a newb in map chat who asks “How can I hit periscope, it keeps knocking me back”

ExZee.8109:

Someone mistaking the term elitism here.

Your case has absolutely nothing to do with elitism. A group leader wanted to do speed farm CoF p1. The other group members joined thinking to do the same. While you may think 10 minutes is a decent time record, even pug groups can manage 7 minute runs with ping-gear-checked zerker warriors/mesmer that all know what they are doing. And pulling the Slave Driver is pretty much the basic of basics as the mesmer’s role in CoF p1 farming. While you may stick around for only a couple of runs, a lot of those groups farm p1 for HOURS, and a 3 minute difference per run is huge. So if the group leader’s not happy with your job, you should know you had every right to start your own group to enforce your own standards on speed farming.

He didn’t kick you because you weren’t as good as him (“I can do better than you, gtfo”), he kicked you because he thought you were the reason the group was not up to whatever standard he expected (“I can save time with a better mesmer”). This kind of reasoning has nothing to do with elitism.

From the thread that this one’s going to be merged into: Talk about elitism

Oh the irony in these kinds of posts are hilarious. Elitists who think they’re entitled to play the game however they want, even if it’s the most inefficient build for their profession and for the PvE content in context, with whoever they want, even if they be complete strangers who have no tolerance for your inefficiency, then call out on others to be “elitists” because they can’t accept your (the real) elitist playstyle.

ExZee.8109:

[snip]
Oh the irony in these kinds of posts are hilarious. Elitists who think they’re entitled to play the game however they want, even if it’s the most inefficient build for their profession and for the PvE content in context, with whoever they want, even if they be complete strangers who have no tolerance for your inefficiency, then call out on others to be “elitists” because they can’t accept your (the real) elitist playstyle.

Yeah, I don’t think you know what Elitism actually means. Though that is slightly ironic for different reasons.

The people who think they’re entitled to play however they want… are correct. Any one of us who bought this game is entitled to play however they want. Saying you’re entitled to play however you want is not elitism.

However, yes – playing however you want includes people demanding to know gear you’re wearing.

But see, while those people are also free to do that (i.e. play as they want) – that is Elitism. Demanding that people meet some arbitrary ‘efficiency’ standard made up by those who feel they’re better than the rest.

See, when people who have the ‘play however you want’ mentality join a group, they don’t ask any requirements from the members – hence no Elitism. People who demand the gear pinging in order to play with them are elitists.

There’s a very distinct difference there, and while both are “free to play however they want” one is elitist behavior, while the other is not.

In a game where you can dodge through most enemies, where I’ve seen a Thief solo dungeons, while other Thieves died even while in a group, your arbitrary “have equipment X or you’re no good” requirement is inadequate at best, and pointless discrimination at worst.

Lol… periscope and challenge? A challenge of time maybe. I completely ignored that and did all the other stuff which was much faster. And I don’t think it increases difficulty of that periscopes. Only makes you take longer or faster…

I always thought it took too long because they launched you back too far. In total I have 4 audio logs returned for this months achievements and I think 2 before the achievement started.

Anyone doing this because they think they are doing a “hard” mode is kitten and has too much time. People should be happy it got nerfed.

If they want it hard they should go sPvP and fight against some top guild or players… but that probably would be too hard for them and they’d start to whine and ask for the other classes that pwned them to get nerfed. ;-)

ExZee.8109:

ExZee.8109:

Someone mistaking the term elitism here.

Your case has absolutely nothing to do with elitism. A group leader wanted to do speed farm CoF p1. The other group members joined thinking to do the same. While you may think 10 minutes is a decent time record, even pug groups can manage 7 minute runs with ping-gear-checked zerker warriors/mesmer that all know what they are doing. And pulling the Slave Driver is pretty much the basic of basics as the mesmer’s role in CoF p1 farming. While you may stick around for only a couple of runs, a lot of those groups farm p1 for HOURS, and a 3 minute difference per run is huge. So if the group leader’s not happy with your job, you should know you had every right to start your own group to enforce your own standards on speed farming.

He didn’t kick you because you weren’t as good as him (“I can do better than you, gtfo”), he kicked you because he thought you were the reason the group was not up to whatever standard he expected (“I can save time with a better mesmer”). This kind of reasoning has nothing to do with elitism.

From the thread that this one’s going to be merged into: Talk about elitism

Oh the irony in these kinds of posts are hilarious. Elitists who think they’re entitled to play the game however they want, even if it’s the most inefficient build for their profession and for the PvE content in context, with whoever they want, even if they be complete strangers who have no tolerance for your inefficiency, then call out on others to be “elitists” because they can’t accept your (the real) elitist playstyle.

I read that thread, posted on it and even clarified the OP for that thread’s supposed mistakes just to be sure. The person who kicked (or one among those who agree to kick) him even went so far as to say if it not for him they’d save 20 seconds.

20 seconds. Now I’m always all for people having the right to play as they want, be it slow or fast, skip content or kill mobs, despite my own preferences but making an issue over 20 seconds is petty. It could’ve been handled better given the issue was over ‘20 seconds’.

Now on this growing elitist issue, I for one think that the regularly given solution is sometimes easier said than done, experiences vary. some ppl may have had easier time, some ppl may have been unlucky to regularly stumbled on ‘speed-run-play-with-what-build-i-say-can-finish-fastest’ kind of group, to which leads to frustration, and eventual lashing out against these.

I dunno, maybe we shud start compiling a list of people who prefer to run no-skipping, any profession is welcome, ’i’m not in a hurry’ kind of groups. It might help those who are having a hard time finding such ppl?

ZenonSeth.5739:

Yeah, I don’t think you know what Elitism actually means. Though that is slightly ironic for different reasons.

The people who think they’re entitled to play however they want… are correct. Any one of us who bought this game is entitled to play however they want. Saying you’re entitled to play however you want is not elitism.

However, yes – playing however you want includes people demanding to know gear you’re wearing.

Taken out of context, ignored. Read the ENTIRE sentence next time, instead of only the parts you want to read.

ZenonSeth.5739:

But see, while those people are also free to do that (i.e. play as they want) – that is Elitism. Demanding that people meet some arbitrary ‘efficiency’ standard made up by those who feel they’re better than the rest.

See, when people who have the ‘play however you want’ mentality join a group, they don’t ask any requirements from the members – hence no Elitism. People who demand the gear pinging in order to play with them are elitists.

There’s a very distinct difference there, and while both are “free to play however they want” one is elitist behavior, while the other is not.

sigh Read first bolded part of my quote. You are free to make your own group if you’re not up to the standard other groups require. In fact, let me add another clause: you are free to leave any group if you are not up to their standards. ALL the people that come whining here are people who simply don’t know how to make a group or leave a group. These whiners are elitists because they’re basically demanding that every group they join conform to their playstyle, instead of adapting to the playstyle the group requires. I don’t even see how this is an argument to be had, but then again, I’m arguing with elitists.

See, when people who have the ‘play however you want’ mentality join a group, they leave when they see that their playstyle doesn’t fit with the group. They don’t call out on the group and say “I’ll play however I want because I can and you’ll keep me in the party because my playstyle takes priority over your playstyles”. People who demand that they be allowed to stay in a group that requires pinging gears, without pinging gears are elitists. People who call out on groups that requires pinging gears simply because they don’t like the idea, therefore indirectly telling others how they should be playing the game are elitists. People who come to whine about it on the forums because they got kicked for either lack of skill or lack of gear are elitists. Either L2P at the expense of others who are willing to be more tolerant of your lack of skill or join a group that doesn’t require berserker gear.

ZenonSeth.5739:

In a game where you can dodge through most enemies, where I’ve seen a Thief solo dungeons, while other Thieves died even while in a group, your arbitrary “have equipment X or you’re no good” requirement is inadequate at best, and pointless discrimination at worst.

Completely off topic. Nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

In the words of trahearn, this thread will not end well.

Get a guild. Play with friends. Problem solved.

Hi everyone,

Please feel free to join this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Talk-about-elitism/first. Here the community is discussing this same topic.

Thanks for your understanding.
This thread is closed.