Guild Wars 2

(zzz accidentally posted as a question and now I can’t alter it because hurr hurrrrrr cellphones)

I mean, it’s in the game, so it’s obviously intended, but moreso to say…

In Guild Wars 1, enemies were pretty on par with your own health. You had ~500, most had ~500-700, I think Jadoth and Urgoz had > 10k, but no HP sponges as we see them now. And as a result, we literally blew things up by spiking them with coordinated 1-2k (party-wide) AoE bursts in a second.

Getting used to generic MMO HP sponge foes in Guild Wars was difficult at first as a result. But honestly, seeing trash mobs drop at near the same pace in GW2 as they did in GW1 as a result of stat and skill optimization just felt correct. But I see two complaints all the time, and I won’t paint them as being from the same faction since I rarely read to see who a post is by, but it still perplexes me.

“Nerf Zerker!”
“Reduce mob health!”

Why? Why not just optimize yourself? Many feel pigeonholed into a singular build, but… I look at it like this: there will always be the most powerful. Nerf the highest, and the second highest takes it’s place. When hierarchies exist this is simply undebatable. These power hierarchies may pigeonhole you into power-based builds but it’s almost a contradictory philosophy.

A zerk armor set does not stop you from taking a defensive utility. It does not affect you from taking a defensive trait. It is a stat buff. In this respect, it may only restrict you from buffing your personal heal to heal 400 more health since you are no longer wearing Clerics. Is that a huge loss for decimating foes in seconds? Wouldn’t the logical (or at least archetypal) ascension for growth as a character, as a hero, to become more powerful?

This kind of invites me to talk about vertical progression. And not about ascended, but literal, vertical power incrementation. ANet wanted top tier gear to be easily acquirable, and for all intents and purposes, exotics are very quick to acquire. So how do you create a vertical climb within an easy-to-acquire tier of gear? Perhaps through stat distribution.

You don’t start your character in a set of Zerk. You start in training wheels and work your way up however you see fit. Perhaps you suck at telegraphy and REALLY need Clerics, but you will learn their tells eventually, and until then, eat shots and heal through it.
Perhaps you know all the tells but aren’t so good at always recognizing them. So you don’t need to heal as much, because you can dodge some of them, and now you switch to PVT.
Perhaps you’ve gotten better at seeing everything come, but waste an important dodge here or there and still need a bit of extra padding when you do get hit, and see Knight’s or Valkyrie as a good intermediary for stacking damage and enough defense to take those 1 or 2 hits.
But eventually you ascend it all (if you aren’t casual); you learn every tell, you learn the enemy cooldowns or intervals between critical attacks, know what needs to be dodged and what doesn’t, and otherwise know fights front to back. And now you’re a zerker, as you’ve ascended the vertical progression with skill over loot.

Really, does anyone believe Zerker was a complete mistake? Is it really a problem that it dominates specific metas? All that says to me is that people are getting better and more efficient at the content they run (or pessimistically, the content is too easy). Is that really terrible? That people be good, or strive to be good?

And please don’t bring up the ridiculous fallacy of a zerker eating dirt, because those are clear cut examples of people trying to go from training wheels to a unicycle before they were ready to make that vertical progression. I’m interested in the people who think zerker truly breaks the game, because from my perspective, the power of zerker, and the skill taken to utilize it, truly harkens back to the original feeling of Guild Wars; it really makes the 300k HP sponges feel proportionate to your hero again.

~fin

I’ve no doubt that it was intended. It’s not considered OP in PvP, and that’s the bellwether of balance. That said, I haven’t seen another MMO in which it was possible to get a 100% critical chance, with up to 2.5x the damage of other builds with little opportunity cost.

The typical whiner comaplaint is :
Why my PVT gear is useless , please nerf berserker . People don’t understand that 1 evade= 10k hp , 1 block=20k armor. PvE has been designed like this , active combat by Dodging and timing your blocks\reflects properly . Arenanet said they want NO TANK , NO HEALER , so it’s obvious that cleric and PVT users are useless . People wan’t to tank mobs in their gear with 3000+ armor but it will never be possible , NEVER . You still get one shotted by some bosses .

So you have to accept it , it’s berserker or gtfo . If you wanna tank there’s plenty of games with a trinity that you could play .

Btw 100% crit chance is possible in many games . Shaiya allow you to have 100% crit chance at level 40 and the cap was lvl 80 .

IndigoSundown.5419:

with little opportunity cost.

But there is very high opportunity cost. Otherwise the stereotypical pug zerker warrior eating dirt, would not exist as a stereotype.

People’s perceptions of things change too often depending on the context the information is provided. I outlined a fairly methodical reasoning as to why I feel like zerker has it’s honest place (vertical stat progression over vertical tier progression as a result of mastering content, which in turn makes it feel more in-line with GW as far as your power vs. enemy power is concerned), and one person might feel like it’s “no risk, all reward, must be nerfed,” but if I started talking about, “I only invite zerkers to do everything in the game,” I feel like I’d be at the mercy of the other faction who can’t zerk shouting over me, “Zerkers eat dirt! Zerkers eat dirt!” But it logically can not be both because they are mutually exclusive. (At least as far as Zerking responsibly goes; refer back to going from training wheels → unicycle, of course that person would be the wrong candidate, but that is not what I wish to have up for discussion.)

Like I said, I’m not going to paint people all under the same faction. I’m also not going to in an honest approach attempt to use one group’s complaint to fuel my argument and then direct it at a separate group. But this is just what I’ve been reading (and grown tired of) week-in, week-out.

Two sides of the fence throwing the same kitten back and forth, really :/

a t s e.9614:

The typical whiner comaplaint is :
Why my PVT gear is useless , please nerf berserker . People don’t understand that 1 evade= 10k hp , 1 block=20k armor. PvE has been designed like this , active combat by Dodging and timing your blocks\reflects properly . Arenanet said they want NO TANK , NO HEALER , so it’s obvious that cleric and PVT users are useless . People wan’t to tank mobs in their gear with 3000+ armor but it will never be possible , NEVER . You still get one shotted by some bosses .

And hopefully they’ll understand what I wrote instead of willfully allowing it to go over their heads to shout something down simply because they don’t like it.

It seems like that’s the kneejerk response to anything these days.

Forget firearm control, BAN HIGH CAPACITY ASSAULT ZERKER ARMOR!

There are several reasons why people complain about berserker.

Let’s pretend that you live in another country than then US which many players do…and even in the US not everyone has the same quality machine or connection. One guy in my guild is in Montana and has satelite. Sometimes the lag makes it impossible for him to time dodges. I’m in Tasmania. I have similar problems…not all the time but sometimes. Often enough to want a bit of toughness and vitality for the hits I might survive.

So now, you basically have a situation where I’m not helping the team enough if I don’t wear berserker, but I’m not helping myself enough if I do. The game won’t be as fun for me.

It’s not always about optimizing your build, because surviving as a berserker means that you have to have a certain level a skill, level of hardware, level of connection. What percentage of players have all three?

So if people then exclude others from their parties based on not having one or the other…how does that create a better game or better community?

Fortunately I’ve joined a guild that’s happy to take anyone into any dungeon with any build they have. And you know…we clear content just fine.

Maybe not as efficiently as the zerker warrior parties, but I’d wager we have as much fun as anyone.

Young Somalia.1706:

IndigoSundown.5419:

with little opportunity cost.

But there is very high opportunity cost.

’Fraid not. Defensive gear does not counter lack of skill. Surviving one less missed block/dodge is not high opportunity cost.

Well I have overall 15 FPS in all dungeons except arah i have 11 and fractals ( jade maw and swamp i have 5 fps ) My lagg never stopped me from using zerker gear I just learned to adapt . Exemple the alpha AoE in CoE . People were telling me count 1,2,3 and dodge .. I got wiped immediatly because of lagg so I had to adapt and count to 2 instead

IndigoSundown.5419:

Young Somalia.1706:

IndigoSundown.5419:

with little opportunity cost.

But there is very high opportunity cost.

’Fraid not. Defensive gear does not counter lack of skill. Surviving one less missed block/dodge is not high opportunity cost.

Then it’s a disagreement on opinion; I hapoen to believe there is an opportunity cost in running zerker. You have to know how to dodge and use your skills. Not everyone does, and I’m not surprised. So certainly while they may still die doing that in Cleric or Sentinel, those type of sets (and accomodating traits if they’re really that bad) are simply more forgiving, but not outright negating, within the learning curve.

My idea of literally no opportunity cost be not having to ever dodge or block, and still getting away with full zerk.

a t s e.9614:

So you have to accept it , it’s berserker or gtfo .

And that’s why I hate zerker elitists :|

I don’t think zerker should be nerfed, I just don’t think it’s playstyle is for everyone.

Vayne.8563:

…because surviving as a berserker means that you have to have a certain level a skill, level of hardware, level of connection. What percentage of players have all three?

I’ve played with/am friends with many Australians that have horrible internet connections, and while sure the occasional (or frequent) lag spike may cause them to fail, they are still easily some of the best players I’ve had the privilege to play with.

So while a bad connection or computer is a limiting factor, you can still successfully wear full berserker gear. It really comes down to skill level; which it seems many people are content with where they are.

and that are the players we keep reviving at simple events through the world, lets not even mention instances… there’s a reason you kick those people from party after they can’t make it alive through a hallway

I don’t have any issue with zerker gear. As you mentioned, progressing to the point of player skill where you can manage fine without any defensive stats makes perfect sense and should definitely be rewarding – as it currently is.

Its the lack of overall build diversity that PvE leads to that I have more of a problem with. If everyone in your team is at the top of their stuff and knows what to do, there’s very little reason to not go full-blown glass cannon. It’s a rather big issue that I feel has little if anything to do with berserker gear itself.

Aerlen.5326:

a t s e.9614:

So you have to accept it , it’s berserker or gtfo .

And that’s why I hate zerker elitists :|

I don’t think zerker should be nerfed, I just don’t think it’s playstyle is for everyone.

Zerkers is just defending their playstyle. They are often called elitist when they are perceived as players who kick those in non-zerkers, asking a specific class, or minimum achievement, for example. While I don’t agree with all those reasons, they have the right to ask for specific players they wanna play with.

Young Somalia.1706:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Young Somalia.1706:

IndigoSundown.5419:

with little opportunity cost.

But there is very high opportunity cost.

’Fraid not. Defensive gear does not counter lack of skill. Surviving one less missed block/dodge is not high opportunity cost.

Then it’s a disagreement on opinion; I hapoen to believe there is an opportunity cost in running zerker. You have to know how to dodge and use your skills. Not everyone does, and I’m not surprised. So certainly while they may still die doing that in Cleric or Sentinel, those type of sets (and accomodating traits if they’re really that bad) are simply more forgiving, but not outright negating, within the learning curve.

My idea of literally no opportunity cost be not having to ever dodge or block, and still getting away with full zerk.

When you’re trying to measure the difference in effectiveness between two sets of gear, introducing another variable (skill) is not good methodology. Skill should be a constant across both conditions.

Everybody is elitist in this game . There’s some cleric elitist that think heals keep the party alive , there’s knight elitists that think high toughness keeps them alive and there’s zerkers that think clearing a dungeon as fast as possible keeps them alive .

Smith.1826:

I don’t have any issue with zerker gear. As you mentioned, progressing to the point of player skill where you can manage fine without any defensive stats makes perfect sense and should definitely be rewarding – as it currently is.

Its the lack of overall build diversity that PvE leads to that I have more of a problem with. If everyone in your team is at the top of their stuff and knows what to do, there’s very little reason to not go full-blown glass cannon. It’s a rather big issue that I feel has little if anything to do with berserker gear itself.

This is pretty much accurate. The problem is less with Zerker specifically (although there is an issue specific to Zerker, see below) and more with the broader design schemas in the game. I am opposed to a strict trinity system, but the building options with gear are pretty much currently “personal offense or personal defense” when it should be more like “personal offense, group defense, healing/support, or control”.

I don’t think defensive oriented gear needs to go away, though, and to some extent I think it’s undervalued even in dungeons. Primarily, it helps tanky characters hold aggro and consequently safeguards squishier characters. Additionally, something the Zerker obsessed folks seem to forget a lot is that Dodging means breaking your DPS. Having better defense allows you to dodge less frequently, meaning less gaps in your DPS. It’s probably still a net loss, but that does help mitigate it.

The other issue, which is pertaining to Zerker specifically, is that the stats simply have better synergy than any other combination and end up giving you more bang for your buck even when you remove the stigma of building for defense. This is something I think Anet really should address at some point.

Cleric gear scales up perfectly if you wanna go full defense . What’s the problem with full offense ?

Zerker is extremely viable in predictable content. If you’ve ever played Dark Souls, the game is hard to begin with, but once you know the patterns, you can go through it on a level 1 character. The same for most PvE content in GW2. You know the behavior, you time your attacks and burn things down fast. There is no reason not to. It doesn’t need to be nerfed.

I don’t run it outside dungeons. I do my best not to consider the rest of the player base an extension of my health pool due to the downed state. Temple fights, Teq., living world where you don’t know the battle yet, etc… these are places where zerkers stick out like a sore thumb. Many are downed every few seconds. But no worry, some kind soul will get you back up.

I guess I have a little more pride than to be rezzed by the skirt wearing elementalist that just ate the same hit that had me fall over like a soccer player in a stiff breeze.
I also enjoy soloing event chains which invariably attract a legendary greatsword wielding Charr warrior that needs rezzing every 30 seconds.

Yes, zerker has its place. But in dungeons and fractals and champ farming, any place where you know where and when the damage is coming from. The rest of the time, it makes for a pretty embarassing showing.

I love WvWvW and PvP zerkers though. They are a good source of tokens. Humans aren’t so predictable are they? That is who is complaining that healing power and armor are OP.

Mojo.7986:

Zerker is extremely viable in predictable content. If you’ve ever played Dark Souls, the game is hard to begin with, but once you know the patterns, you can go through it on a level 1 character. The same for most PvE content in GW2. You know the behavior, you time your attacks and burn things down fast. There is no reason not to. It doesn’t need to be nerfed.

I don’t run it outside dungeons. I do my best not to consider the rest of the player base an extension of my health pool due to the downed state. Temple fights, Teq., living world where you don’t know the battle yet, etc… these are places where zerkers stick out like a sore thumb. Many are downed every few seconds. But no worry, some kind soul will get you back up.

I guess I have a little more pride than to be rezzed by the skirt wearing elementalist that just ate the same hit that had me fall over like a soccer player in a stiff breeze.
I also enjoy soloing event chains which invariably attract a legendary greatsword wielding Charr warrior that needs rezzing every 30 seconds.

Yes, zerker has its place. But in dungeons and fractals and champ farming, any place where you know where and when the damage is coming from. The rest of the time, it makes for a pretty embarassing showing.

I love WvWvW and PvP zerkers though. They are a good source of tokens. Humans aren’t so predictable are they? That is who is complaining that healing power and armor are OP.

Which is why zerker is working as intended, because PvP influences all balance decisions.

Mojo.7986:

Zerker is extremely viable in predictable content. If you’ve ever played Dark Souls, the game is hard to begin with, but once you know the patterns, you can go through it on a level 1 character…

It’s worth mentioning – simply because I’m a huge Souls nut – that Dark Souls is also scaled entirely on your level. It doesn’t change or affect your point at all, just sayin’!

In a dungeon setting, the stereotype that zerkers eat dirt is getting on my nerves. In zerker group, I rarely go down, let alone dead.

Zerkers has its place in dungeon just like PVT has its place in WvW.

Well I don’t know why you bring pvp in the PvE discussion . You can’t deny the fact that defensive gear = lack of skill in PvE . And by the way even in PvP the damage reduction is bad after 2800 armor , there’s no point in getting 4k armor .

Go solo the Harathi event chain start to finish up to Ulgoth including the three champ centaurs and 3 champ war beats in zerkers gear and let me know if you make it. That is PvE content. Go take your skill down to the two veterans and the champ guarding the chest in Harathi at the slave camp while you are there as well. Your zerker gear is only viable in these cases when you have other players around you to revive you.

I have zerker gear, but it won’t get the job done in these cases. I promise you won’t get past the first champ in the Harathi chain at north or south forge in zerker gear solo, if you even make it that far with 10 centaurs on you at the other camps.

You talk of a zerker group, you need them. Because you can’t burn things down fast enough yourself and due to the downed state, you can always have someone available to revive each other in a rotation. That is a game mechanic saving you, not skill.

Mojo.7986:

Go solo the Harathi event chain start to finish up to Ulgoth including the three champ centaurs and 3 champ war beats in zerkers gear and let me know if you make it. That is PvE content. Go take your skill down to the two veterans and the champ guarding the chest in Harathi at the slave camp while you are there as well. Your zerker gear is only viable in these cases when you have other players around you to revive you.

I have zerker gear, but it won’t get the job done in these cases. I promise you won’t get past the first champ in the Harathi chain at north or south forge in zerker gear solo, if you even make it that far with 10 centaurs on you at the other camps.

You talk of a zerker group, you need them. Because you can’t burn things down fast enough yourself and due to the downed state, you can always have someone available to revive each other in a rotation. That is a game mechanic saving you, not skill.

I almost find this insulting saying that zerkers rely on others to revive them. In an organize speedrun groups, rarely anyone ever goes down. In a group setting, non-zerkers probably res more than zerker groups.

About the solo-ing champs, who would have thought that lupi can be soloed in September 2012. I’m saying that players don’t get enough practice to solo those. I’m not saying it can be done or not, I’m saying you never know.

Also the typical cleric player : I always res those zerkers , they go down in 5s . You drag zerkers down by burning their evades and blocks .

I don’t blame the gear – I blame the content design.

And as Mojo suggest, there is content out there that MOCKS the use of zerker.

No , even if you can’t crit you must try harder . Berserker’s Power!

IndigoSundown.5419:

Young Somalia.1706:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Young Somalia.1706:

IndigoSundown.5419:

with little opportunity cost.

But there is very high opportunity cost.

’Fraid not. Defensive gear does not counter lack of skill. Surviving one less missed block/dodge is not high opportunity cost.

Then it’s a disagreement on opinion; I hapoen to believe there is an opportunity cost in running zerker. You have to know how to dodge and use your skills. Not everyone does, and I’m not surprised. So certainly while they may still die doing that in Cleric or Sentinel, those type of sets (and accomodating traits if they’re really that bad) are simply more forgiving, but not outright negating, within the learning curve.

My idea of literally no opportunity cost be not having to ever dodge or block, and still getting away with full zerk.

When you’re trying to measure the difference in effectiveness between two sets of gear, introducing another variable (skill) is not good methodology. Skill should be a constant across both conditions.

Which would be appropriate if we were discussing what is the most optimal, and it is already well-established that zerker is the most optimal, no contest.

I was intending to confront philosophies – to approach and somewhat persuade those that believe zerker needs to be removed because it’s “too powerful” or because it was a mistake, or toned down, or stat caps because of zerker stacking offense, or whatever other nonsense, that zerker was in fact completely intentional, reasonable, and that it serves a purpose.

Of course it’s most optimal when a highly capable player is using it, and that’s sort of the point. Some of the players occupying the skill floor, instead of the skill ceiling, see the incredible results and insist that it’s broken or overpowered, that “nothing should die that quickly” (in contrast to other comments I’ve seen that are basically “HP sponges pls go”).

And to the rest so we continue on course and not veer pff-topic, this is not supposed to be a discussion about the wellness of zerker for the community, rifts between players, or build limitations (which is fallacious as zerker gear is not stopping you from picking whatever traits, skills, or weapons sets, which is not to say don’t pick idiotic traits, skills, and weapon sets, but that your frustration is misdirected. You should be addressing traits, skills, and weapon sets being balanced or made more opportune, and current encounters being less than lackluster). We’ve had plenty of those threads :P

In places where you need a zerg and pvp, you need sustain. Places where finesse currently doesn’t exist, you just need to survive to the content.

On the topic, tanky builds works just as well.
http://youtu.be/o0kDnswWyjY

I cannot believe you stopped breaking lines.

So because 6 people are down at Dwayna, we should always wear zerker gear? That is the argument you are making? Because that is hilarious. Given that everyone wiping at Tequatl would be a much less feeble attempt at a defense of sucking dirt in zerker gear, you would still be hard pressed to convince the players of this game who know how often they rez people who drop to some really silly damage, versus how often entire events wipe, that it is a valid excuse for you wearing zerker gear all the time.

Thanks for the laugh though. 6 people down at Dwayna = Zerker gear for everyone. That, my friend, is my favorite bit of reasoning I’ve seen on these forums.

There is just a thing wrong about zerker (and assassin) equip.
That is, they paired in a single item stats with a multiplicative effect between themselves. Resulting in an exponential increase of damage.
While the other equips have at most additive effects, some of those quite minor (especially when talking about defensive stats).
Also, direct damage is king in pve.
They wanted no trinity, and all we’ve got in return is dps, dps, dps.

Condition dmg is still extremly broken in PvP . Maybe you want them to add a Condi , Condi toughness gear for more OP necros ?

The main problem with berserker gear is, that it scales to good or rather the rest to bad.

Berserker scales so good that 5 people as fullberserker, prevent more dmg than support or deff builds/gears.

‘Zerker gear doesn’t break the game but it harms it a lot. Having only one set of gear that works, with a plethora of other options, is obviously not intended.

IMO, they need to convert all gear to ‘zerkers and expand ’utility’ strengths into traits. The traits already kind of do this now but the effect is very weak. Make that stronger and the soft trinity will be more visible but the overall meta would be roughly the same.

Manuhell.2759:

There is just a thing wrong about zerker (and assassin) equip.
That is, they paired in a single item stats with a multiplicative effect between themselves. Resulting in an exponential increase of damage.

As I already iterated with explanation, I hace reason to believe this was completely intentional.

I’m just going to keep repeating myself at this rate, but whatever, it brings th game back in line to the feeling of obliterating foes in GW, but not without the necessary training, experience, or knowledge of your class to do so, thus facilitating a truly vertical stat progression (versus tier progression since everyone whines about Ascended).

Young Somalia.1706:

Manuhell.2759:

There is just a thing wrong about zerker (and assassin) equip.
That is, they paired in a single item stats with a multiplicative effect between themselves. Resulting in an exponential increase of damage.

As I already iterated with explanation, I hace reason to believe this was completely intentional.

I’m just going to keep repeating myself at this rate, but whatever, it brings th game back in line to the feeling of obliterating foes in GW, but not without the necessary training, experience, or knowledge of your class to do so, thus facilitating a truly vertical stat progression (versus tier progression since everyone whines about Ascended).

It could have been if any other full offensive equip worked like that. But it isn’t. Take rampagers. Power and precision are multiplicative, but condition damage isn’t.
There isn’t even a similar alternative for condition users (mainly because there are just 2 stats related with conditions, and neither of those can be found together in the same item).

alrite lets do a full engineers full clerics party

Young Somalia.1706:

Which would be appropriate if we were discussing what is the most optimal, and it is already well-established that zerker is the most optimal, no contest.

I was intending to confront philosophies – to approach and somewhat persuade those that believe zerker needs to be removed because it’s “too powerful” or because it was a mistake, or toned down, or stat caps because of zerker stacking offense, or whatever other nonsense, that zerker was in fact completely intentional, reasonable, and that it serves a purpose.

Of course it’s most optimal when a highly capable player is using it, and that’s sort of the point. Some of the players occupying the skill floor, instead of the skill ceiling, see the incredible results and insist that it’s broken or overpowered, that “nothing should die that quickly” (in contrast to other comments I’ve seen that are basically “HP sponges pls go”).

Fair enough, I suppose. My perspective is that there is always going to be a “best” gear because of the nature of PvE in this game. This will remain berserker unless mob AI and mechanics change or the devs heed the nerf calls.

As to whether the effectiveness of berserker is intended… I believe that gear balance at launch was based entirely on PvP, with the assumption that balance between gear sets would be “good enough” in PvE. However, PvE gear balance took a hit last November (and ongoing) with the addition of greater critical damage percentages from Ascended. Since zerker dungeon speed runs were already a fait accompli, I believe the Ascended critical damage increase was viewed as irrelevant.

I have nothing against your attempt to address philosophies. However, what you’re essentially saying is that better players deserve more effective gear. While that is true in other games, in those games “more effective gear” means incrementally higher numbers, not 2-2.5x the damage with relatively low risk. Convincing a GW2 audience of that is either going to be preaching to the choir, or a hard sell.

Apropos of nothing, I’ve never assumed that players I see downed in temple, meta or LW zergs are all wearing berserker gear. I think that’s an assumption posters make to fuel their arguments. I find it much more likely that the downed are wearing different types of gear, because I know that the defensive gear does not save you. Even the best players get downed occasionally, regardless of gear, and the range of skill you’re likely to find in a zerg is huge.

That’s not to say that you can’t build a very survivable PvE character with defensive gear and building for regeneration. However, that survivability — at least in some situations — still takes skill to pull off.

Yenn.9185:

Aerlen.5326:

a t s e.9614:

So you have to accept it , it’s berserker or gtfo .

And that’s why I hate zerker elitists :|

I don’t think zerker should be nerfed, I just don’t think it’s playstyle is for everyone.

Zerkers is just defending their playstyle. They are often called elitist when they are perceived as players who kick those in non-zerkers, asking a specific class, or minimum achievement, for example. While I don’t agree with all those reasons, they have the right to ask for specific players they wanna play with.

That’s 100% NOT the vibe I get from some, but not all, of these posts. That vibe is “zerker or gtfo LOL NOOB!!! That’s why you stink and we kick you Zerker 4lyfe.” That attitude is the one that needs to GTFO and I’m real tired of seeing it everywhere – zerker is viable, it’s okay for zerkers to only want to play with zerkers and to advertise such, it’s okay for anyone to only prefer certain things and advertise such. It’s not okay to act like a child with a raging e-ego thinking what you play is the bestest ever and everyone else stinks. I have tried zerker – it does not fit my playstyle. I wish the zerker attitude is the thing that would stop.

The issue around berserker gear is not that it has the best potential performance, but by how much it outperforms. With the condition cap this however cannot be fixed, in a more balanced scenario using Power Precision Condition Damage gear would have a comparable output to berserker gear but the cap on conditions along with condition damage not scaling nearly as well as critical damage prevents this from being even close.
The ability to play as a full berserker should be only attainable by the upper echelon of players, it should be beyond the average player’s skill level. This is why the “berserker or gtfu” attitude is extremely rude and elitist, the average player can’t run it but by saying that you are expecting them to either play your way or don’t play.

Well sometines when I’m really bored I take my lvl 13 naked guardian in wvw and they insult me and say gtfo you need soldier gear to survivie or you will rally everybody . The PVT users are elitists aswell .

a t s e.9614:

Well sometines when I’m really bored I take my lvl 13 naked guardian in wvw and they insult me and say gtfo you need soldier gear to survivie or you will rally everybody . The PVT users are elitists aswell .

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

I use PVT and I don’t insult people who use zerkers or any other gear because we all have different skills and playstyles. It’d be great if the GW2 community could take that approach too.

Aerlen.5326:

a t s e.9614:

Well sometines when I’m really bored I take my lvl 13 naked guardian in wvw and they insult me and say gtfo you need soldier gear to survivie or you will rally everybody . The PVT users are elitists aswell .

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

I use PVT and I don’t insult people who use zerkers or any other gear because we all have different skills and playstyles. It’d be great if the GW2 community could take that approach too.

Don’t feed the troll

Young Somalia.1706:

Why? Why not just optimize yourself? Many feel pigeonholed into a singular build, but… I look at it like this: there will always be the most powerful. Nerf the highest, and the second highest takes it’s place. When hierarchies exist this is simply undebatable. These power hierarchies may pigeonhole you into power-based builds but it’s almost a contradictory philosophy.

The issue isn’t that berserker is best, the issue is that it is best by such a large margin that it effectively negates the use of any other gear. Even if power is the way to go, there should be at least a use for alternatives. There should be some advantage or reason to take condtions/control/defense. Currently there is none.

Take Magic: The Gathering for example. There’s no ‘best’ option, and even the strongest deck has its weaknesses. There is no ‘one answer to everything’ and that should be the same for Guild Wars 2. However, power trumps all other stats by about 2:1 (in case of dps, it is literally twice as good as precision or condition damage). If the difference were to be reduced, people wouldn’t feel so hurt by not taking the most damaging stat. The gaps between ultimate tank and ultimate attacker shouldn’t be so large.

There is a weakness in the berserker setup .
You must be skilled enough to wear it because you have no defensive stats on it . The gears are perfectly balanced , defensive gear is more forgiving but does less damage .

Aerlen.5326:

Yenn.9185:

Aerlen.5326:

a t s e.9614:

So you have to accept it , it’s berserker or gtfo .

And that’s why I hate zerker elitists :|

I don’t think zerker should be nerfed, I just don’t think it’s playstyle is for everyone.

Zerkers is just defending their playstyle. They are often called elitist when they are perceived as players who kick those in non-zerkers, asking a specific class, or minimum achievement, for example. While I don’t agree with all those reasons, they have the right to ask for specific players they wanna play with.

That’s 100% NOT the vibe I get from some, but not all, of these posts. That vibe is “zerker or gtfo LOL NOOB!!! That’s why you stink and we kick you Zerker 4lyfe.” That attitude is the one that needs to GTFO and I’m real tired of seeing it everywhere – zerker is viable, it’s okay for zerkers to only want to play with zerkers and to advertise such, it’s okay for anyone to only prefer certain things and advertise such. It’s not okay to act like a child with a raging e-ego thinking what you play is the bestest ever and everyone else stinks. I have tried zerker – it does not fit my playstyle. I wish the zerker attitude is the thing that would stop.

When I join or others join a “dps only” or “zerkers only” parties, I am on the assumption and belief that everyone in that party is honest and fit the description of said party. If you’re not, obviously some would get mad or rage “gtfo” at you, which I think is completely the fault of the non-zerker who joined that party.

Fair enough, some zerker try to force their playstyle onto others, but the same can be said on others. Have ever seen those players who vowed to the heaven that clerics is holy grail of all gears?

Young Somalia.1706:

And please don’t bring up the ridiculous fallacy of a zerker eating dirt, because those are clear cut examples of people trying to go from training wheels to a unicycle before they were ready to make that vertical progression.

I think you got the analogy wrong. Zerker is more like a speed bike, while rabid, for example, would be more like a mountain bike. The problem is not that zerker is too good for road racing, it’s that there are no mountain roads!!!