Guild Wars 2

Mirta.5029:

21 days versus 50 days. The difference isn’t all that horribly big.

It will take me months regardless. But that’s not the point. People who do 4 easy FotM dailies a day get a ring every 2.5 days with virtually no effort. It’s a time sink but not more than that. For normal people who work 9 hours a day, it’s still 50 days (not counting all the days spent with friends, loved ones, family, other games etc etc).

So that makes the difference quite apparent. 2.5 days per ring for locust vs 50++ days for humans.

And that’s not sarcasm. Merely logging into the game can be a tremendous effort at days. Not that I want stuff for free, but when you claim a ring takes 10 days in fractals, you’re lying. And with 50 days through laurels, you’re lying too. Please state your arguments in an honest way, and people will respect you for it.

Mirta.5029:

That’s about 2 months for the rings, not 3 and running FOTM will get you the rings in 21 days (1 day to get from level 1 to 10, 20 to run dailies 20 times) and there’s no way to get ascended amulets trough fractals.

>1 day to get from level 1 to 10

>1 day

>1…

…..

That would literally be the worst day of my life. Running fractals more than once a day makes my teeth itch.

I see where you’re coming from, you want everything the game has to offer NOW NOW NOW and you literally cannot STAND it when there are barriers put in the way to stop you grinding solidly for 30 hours to get something in a day and a half which is designed to take you a month.

However, most of us are not like you, we are normal. We can wait for things. We have patience. To us, 20 days is a short time, not an eternity that you might as well dismiss out of hand.

Who knows why Anet is taking these wierd approuches to this game. It contridicts what they initially stood for. I mean all of these approuches are illogical and appear to make people more annoyed then not.

marnick.4305:

It will take me months regardless. But that’s not the point. People who do 4 easy FotM dailies a day get a ring every 2.5 days with virtually no effort. It’s a time sink but not more than that. For normal people who work 9 hours a day, it’s still 50 days (not counting all the days spent with friends, loved ones, family, other games etc etc).

So that makes the difference quite apparent. 2.5 days per ring for locust vs 50++ days for humans.

And that’s not sarcasm. Merely logging into the game can be a tremendous effort at days. Not that I want stuff for free, but when you claim a ring takes 10 days in fractals, you’re lying. And with 50 days through laurels, you’re lying too. Please state your arguments in an honest way, and people will respect you for it.

I’m counting if you only have 1 character running fractals (I will probably never get my alts up to level 10 because that would be tiring) and the rings that you need don’t drop (ran the daily 40 times now, only 2 times did I get any ring drops).
Dailies take max an hour a day to do. I know where you’re coming from, but it’s true that if you do the dailies for 50 days and both monthlies it will only take you 50 days.
I can’t make my argument any more honest because if to count in the days that people can’t even log in because they have real life to sort out the number can be any amount of days having in mind that every single human pretty much has a different schedule and a different amount of free time.

Chamone.6890:

>1 day to get from level 1 to 10

>1 day

>1…

…..

That would literally be the worst day of my life. Running fractals more than once a day makes my teeth itch.

I see where you’re coming from, you want everything the game has to offer NOW NOW NOW and you literally cannot STAND it when there are barriers put in the way to stop you grinding solidly for 30 hours to get something in a day and a half which is designed to take you a month.

However, most of us are not like you, we are normal. We can wait for things. We have patience. To us, 20 days is a short time, not an eternity that you might as well dismiss out of hand.

I think you misunderstood me. I was defending the dailies saying that the time difference is not that big. I counted getting from level 1 to 10 as one day because if I counted it as 10 someone would have once again raged that I’m lying and it doesn’t take that long. So I took the smallest window of time that a nolifer would have to spend to earn a ring that he wants.

kRiza krimos.1637:

@OP
It would be wonderful if forum cryers would first do some research and inform themselves, then make complain threads if there is need.
ANet already stated there will be more ways to get laurels and soon, dailys are only first step. So its more likley that in 1 month you will be able to get more than 1 ring monthly, which makes most of your complaining in this post pointless.

Was going to post this myself.

From what they have said I can only speculate that achievement points in general will be redeemable for laurels OR straight converted, non repeatable ones of course. Not sure how this will play out and I predict that’s what anet is currently working on… You would have to sort though the achievements and figure out the value of risk/fun/time giving laurels appropriately. Maybe 1 per tier is a good place to start. As there are a massive number of achievements and potentially more on every content update it stands to reason that the laurel system could solve a number of existing reward problems.

anet released ForM to buy themselve some time.

aside from some “holiday stuff”.
the new content so far is almost non-existent.
there is southsun… and its half baked, deprived of lore.

FotM are the “grind”, until they release new content.
its basically a loreless repeatable for ever dungeon.
(mind you, there is a lot of content already, but not for the players who need challenging gameplay).

Mirta.5029:

I’m counting if you only have 1 character running fractals (I will probably never get my alts up to level 10 because that would be tiring) and the rings that you need don’t drop (ran the daily 40 times now, only 2 times did I get any ring drops).
Dailies take max an hour a day to do. I know where you’re coming from, but it’s true that if you do the dailies for 50 days and both monthlies it will only take you 50 days.
I can’t make my argument any more honest because if to count in the days that people can’t even log in because they have real life to sort out the number can be any amount of days having in mind that every single human pretty much has a different schedule and a different amount of free time.

And yet you propose 21 days of grinding FotM as a honest alternative. It’s not.

The difference here is between people without a schedule, who can play fractals non stop. They could make a ring every third day. On the other hand you have people with a schedule. They can make a ring every month.

Not that I mind. I like a long term goal in my MMO, and I like putting in a bit of daily time towards a long term goal. A month of casual play per ascended sounds just right to me.
The only thing I’m asking from you is a bit of honesty. Your 21 days of FotM vs 50 days of laurels is not honest because both ends of the spectrum are vastly different. This lowers both the 21 days of FotM and raises the 50 days of Laurels.

I think you misunderstood me. I was defending the dailies saying that the time difference is not that big. I counted getting from level 1 to 10 as one day because if I counted it as 10 someone would have once again raged that I’m lying and it doesn’t take that long. So I took the smallest window of time that a nolifer would have to spend to earn a ring that he wants.

Well… this no lifer has two alts on scale 20. He can make a ring every 2.5 days. The casual who plays 4 days out of 7 needs 61 days to complete a single ring. And frankly, doing the same thing for an hour, 4 days out of 7 for two months … pretty addicted by all non-gaming standards.

marnick.4305:

Mirta.5029:

I’m counting if you only have 1 character running fractals (I will probably never get my alts up to level 10 because that would be tiring) and the rings that you need don’t drop (ran the daily 40 times now, only 2 times did I get any ring drops).
Dailies take max an hour a day to do. I know where you’re coming from, but it’s true that if you do the dailies for 50 days and both monthlies it will only take you 50 days.
I can’t make my argument any more honest because if to count in the days that people can’t even log in because they have real life to sort out the number can be any amount of days having in mind that every single human pretty much has a different schedule and a different amount of free time.

And yet you propose 21 days of grinding FotM as a honest alternative. It’s not.

The difference here is between people without a schedule, who can play fractals non stop. They could make a ring every third day. On the other hand you have people with a schedule. They can make a ring every month.

Not that I mind. I like a long term goal in my MMO, and I like putting in a bit of daily time towards a long term goal. A month of casual play per ascended sounds just right to me.
The only thing I’m asking from you is a bit of honesty. Your 21 days of FotM vs 50 days of laurels is not honest because both ends of the spectrum are vastly different. This lowers both the 21 days of FotM and raises the 50 days of Laurels.

I think you misunderstood me. I was defending the dailies saying that the time difference is not that big. I counted getting from level 1 to 10 as one day because if I counted it as 10 someone would have once again raged that I’m lying and it doesn’t take that long. So I took the smallest window of time that a nolifer would have to spend to earn a ring that he wants.

Well… this no lifer has two alts on scale 20. He can make a ring every 2.5 days. The casual who plays 4 days out of 7 needs 61 days to complete a single ring. And frankly, doing the same thing for an hour, 4 days out of 7 for two months … pretty addicted by all non-gaming standards.

but can you count all of those variables in or do you take a number that’s accurate? Like I said I can’t count in the different number of variables because it’s different for every person.
If to count in the variables the number of days that takes to do the fractals might increase as well because what about casuals that only do a fractal daily only once every month? See how you can’t count in the variables?

Mirta.5029:

but can you count all of those variables in or do you take a number that’s accurate? Like I said I can’t count in the different number of variables because it’s different for every person.
If to count in the variables the number of days that takes to do the fractals might increase as well because what about casuals that only do a fractal daily only once every month? See how you can’t count in the variables?

Sure I can. Or rather … a.net could. By looking at log in numbers and completion of dailies of all sorts, they can make up some nice graphs. By doing so, they could design their content around a completion rate that 80+% of their playerbase falls into. Personally, I feel laurels are balanced around that. I am personally content with a slow yet steady gain of ascended gear. Maybe a.net could release this info in a blog, but that’d a bit optimistic

Turn it any way you want, but content has to be balanced around people who have 10+ hours of their day planned already. The kind of people that have gasp a job. People that have the disposable income to invest big amounts of money into games they rarely play. I’m thinking of the 30 years old father who takes his 4000 euro race bike to work two or three times a year. Just a thought experiment.

marnick.4305:

Mirta.5029:

but can you count all of those variables in or do you take a number that’s accurate? Like I said I can’t count in the different number of variables because it’s different for every person.
If to count in the variables the number of days that takes to do the fractals might increase as well because what about casuals that only do a fractal daily only once every month? See how you can’t count in the variables?

Sure I can. Or rather … a.net could. By looking at log in numbers and completion of dailies of all sorts, they can make up some nice graphs. By doing so, they could design their content around a completion rate that 80+% of their playerbase falls into. Personally, I feel laurels are balanced around that. I am personally content with a slow yet steady gain of ascended gear. Maybe a.net could release this info in a blog, but that’d a bit optimistic

Turn it any way you want, but content has to be balanced around people who have 10+ hours of their day planned already. The kind of people that have gasp a job. People that have the disposable income to invest big amounts of money into games they rarely play. I’m thinking of the 30 years old father who takes his 4000 euro race bike to work two or three times a year. Just a thought experiment.

A lot of people have a job. But do you deserve to get more while doing less in an MMO because real life gets in the way? It takes me an hour or so to do the daily while leveling. Not a lot of time. Working people manage it. Working people also manage to run 1 fractal daily.
I can not count in the variables in this case. I have no info from Anet about how long an average person plays. It’s completely random. So I take the sole calculation of how many dailies and monthlies in laurels it takes and how much dailies it takes in Fractals.
Also a person working 9 to 5 can invest 3-4 hours a day on an MMO.

Working 9-5: 8 hours of your day.
Commute if you work those hours: Not uncommon to take up 2 hours of your day. At least 1.
Appropriate sleep regime for a 9-5 worker: 11pm-7am, 8 hours.
So the average 9-5 worker has 5 hours between getting home at let’s say 6pm, and going to bed at 11, to do whatever. Which includes household business like cooking, eating, potential family time if that’s in their life, leaving a safe guesstimate of 2-2.5 hours for hobbies, of which playing GW2 may not be their only one.

Trithne.7391:

Working 9-5: 8 hours of your day.
Commute if you work those hours: Not uncommon to take up 2 hours of your day. At least 1.
Appropriate sleep regime for a 9-5 worker: 11pm-7am, 8 hours.
So the average 9-5 worker has 5 hours between getting home at let’s say 6pm, and going to bed at 11, to do whatever. Which includes household business like cooking, eating, potential family time if that’s in their life, leaving a safe guesstimate of 2-2.5 hours for hobbies, of which playing GW2 may not be their only one.

then it’s their problem. Being a gamer family I can see how both family time and eating can include playing at the same time. If you decide to dedicate your time to a different activity it’s your own choice, but you can’t ask to get more by doing less, because you had the choice to play GW2 instead.
You are even given extra stuff to help casuals (laurels) and you’re complaining that it’s not enough.

game is perfect for casual… they ll never ever be able to even see all content.
dont worry for casuals… theyre still grinding their exotics (or paid for them with gems).

Oh please, this is just winging for the sake of winging, people like you ruin these games.

How have they dropped the ball? by providing a grind for those that like difficult dungeons? GOD FORBID. and NO this does not go against their policy at all, you do not NEED ascension gear to see ANY of the current ingame content. a higher difficulty FOTM is nothing of the sort either.

Therefore you don’t NEED to do it to see content, unlike WoW for example where to do the next big dungeon you would need the previous dungeons gear level maxxed or close.

you KNOW they are adding more methods of ascension hear, why bloody complain about something so trivial.

I think some people missed the overall premise of this post. Pre-FOTM, there was MANY different ways to get gear. WvW, World Events, dungeons, crafting, etc. Those who didn’t like to dungeon grind had options. Those who didn’t like PvP, had options. Those who liked to grind and craft, had options. Anet had said that they weren’t going to introduce vertical progression, but with FOTM, that’s exactly what we got. Those who only WvW, or do World Events, or craft, and don’t like the dungeon grind are being left out. Yes, they released Laurels, but again, those who don’t like to dungeon grind, won’t complete the monthly.

Now don’t get me wrong, I personally, have no issues with dungeon grinding to a point, but they release a whole new zone plus a dungeon, then just let the zone go to waste and force those who don’t like to dungeon grind over and over to grind it out just to get the latest upgrades, it goes against what Anet said they wanted to avoid in the first place. That’s why I said they dropped the ball and half-kittened the past couple patches. It just seems that with the gradual release of Acended gear, they could’ve incorporated more ways to get it…ie Karma, WvW, etc instead of the vertical grind in place now.

right now you can only get ascended amulets with dailes..

its crowd control

bit FotM are basically a grind in place to buy anet some time.
the older dungeon explorable modes were so badly designed and loosing steam. people got tired.
FotM are gameplay wise well designed. (lore wise its kitten…).
you wont believe the amount of players that basically play FotM more than 75% of their online time.
people love a good challenge with group.

world events are boring.
farming open world is boring.
dungeons are “so-so”.
fotm is the only fun and challenging content for a big chunk of the pve crowd i think.

Avatar.1923:

right now you can only get ascended amulets with dailes..

its crowd control

bit FotM are basically a grind in place to buy anet some time.
the older dungeon explorable modes were so badly designed and loosing steam. people got tired.
FotM are gameplay wise well designed. (lore wise its kitten…).
you wont believe the amount of players that basically play FotM more than 75% of their online time.
people love a good challenge with group.

world events are boring.
farming open world is boring.
dungeons are “so-so”.
fotm is the only fun and challenging content for a big chunk of the pve crowd i think.

I agree completely with you on FOTM. FOTM surprised me with how nice the design is and the randomness of it, as well as the difficulty (but that just depends on group make up mainly). But you hit on the one of the main points. You find world events, farming, etc boring. There are people who find those fun and enjoyable, yet find dungeoning boring. Pre-FOTM, options were available for everyone, yet post-FOTM it’s just dungeon grind…

I personally like the FotM and a lot of the fractals within them, etc…but I think it would have been a much better idea to bring the randomized elements and the ascended gear to all of the existing dungeons instead, for exactly the reasons detailed in the OP. FotM didn’t kill the dungeons but it severely depopulated them and that is a shame.

I switched servers before the paid swap from a high to very high pop server and it has helped a lot in finding dungeon groups, but it is still very hard to find groups for the less popular ones during the week.

It would have been really cool if they added a bunch of ‘sub path’ alterations that would randomly change up the run, randomize the bosses and mobs’ skill sets, etc to bring them more in line with the FotM in that you wouldn’t ever be sure of what exactly you would run into…and then give us access to ascended gear.

I also agree with someone else’s above post about how ascension/infusion was tied to the story progression in GW1 where here it is just tacked on. There should be an epic quest line or something to ‘ascend’ in the game before you can ever hope to equip the gear.

Mirta.5029:

marnick.4305:

Sure I can. Or rather … a.net could. By looking at log in numbers and completion of dailies of all sorts, they can make up some nice graphs. By doing so, they could design their content around a completion rate that 80+% of their playerbase falls into. Personally, I feel laurels are balanced around that. I am personally content with a slow yet steady gain of ascended gear. Maybe a.net could release this info in a blog, but that’d a bit optimistic

Turn it any way you want, but content has to be balanced around people who have 10+ hours of their day planned already. The kind of people that have gasp a job. People that have the disposable income to invest big amounts of money into games they rarely play. I’m thinking of the 30 years old father who takes his 4000 euro race bike to work two or three times a year. Just a thought experiment.

A lot of people have a job. But do you deserve to get more while doing less in an MMO because real life gets in the way? It takes me an hour or so to do the daily while leveling. Not a lot of time. Working people manage it. Working people also manage to run 1 fractal daily.

I don’t expect to get more, I expect to get the same in the long term. You can just get it faster. That means … no gear degradation through successive tiers and a consistent means to get all gear by playing a bit each day. Laurels do exactly that. The whole point is that a company should never scare away the people bringing in the dough. Those who play less are often more inclined to spend real money on their hobbies.

I can not count in the variables in this case. I have no info from Anet about how long an average person plays. It’s completely random. So I take the sole calculation of how many dailies and monthlies in laurels it takes and how much dailies it takes in Fractals.
Also a person working 9 to 5 can invest 3-4 hours a day on an MMO.

On a saturday or sunday they could. Maybe once a week when the wife is out on girls night. 10 consecutive days to get an ascended ring fast … impossible.

Even if I wanted, even if my girlfriend would allow me to ignore her for 10 days straight while she makes my sandwich, pours my drinks and preps my suitcase in the morning … there’s other things in real life that prevent this.

Don’t get me wrong. I love this game. I would play 4 hours a day if I could. But reality is a puppy. I can’t play that much. A day only has 24 hours. That’s plain physics and unless you’re Albert Einstein, you can’t change that.

I understand fotm takes 20 days to get 2 ascended rigns but laurel takes like 50 days.

But what you forget is you are comparing 50 days of doing nothing(since people do dailys anyway for karma) to 20 days of doing fotm 30 times(or 115 mini dungeon).

It is like people complaining about ascended back piece in fotm. Do you realize ascended back piece takes 80 gold(berserker) or 1850 fractal relics? The grind is insane. For all I know please add ascended backpiece to laurel too. I’m not grinding 80 gold or 1850 fractal relics.

I mean I like this game, actually do enjoy fotm, but I rather play other aspect of the game than grind fotm “that much”

Mirta.5029:

A lot of people have a job. But do you deserve to get more while doing less in an MMO because real life gets in the way?

Oh, no. I’m perfectly okay with you having it even easier.

Tolmos.8395:

Mirta.5029:

I have no clue what you’re even trying to say with this post. You just seem like another angry person.

People tend to get that way when a company pointless murders a game they like simply because their monetization department deemed it a good idea. :-P

@OP: Anet already stressed that they wanted to fix everyone getting funneled into FotM… its just taking a REALLY long time. It took them 2 months just to get out one other method of getting ascended gear, so it will probably take a full year to get us back to the point that this game was at prior to the Nov 15th release.

And that’s when they’ll spring a new tier on us.

marnick.4305:

On a saturday or sunday they could. Maybe once a week when the wife is out on girls night. 10 consecutive days to get an ascended ring fast … impossible.

Even if I wanted, even if my girlfriend would allow me to ignore her for 10 days straight while she makes my sandwich, pours my drinks and preps my suitcase in the morning … there’s other things in real life that prevent this.

Don’t get me wrong. I love this game. I would play 4 hours a day if I could. But reality is a puppy. I can’t play that much. A day only has 24 hours. That’s plain physics and unless you’re Albert Einstein, you can’t change that.

I was just saying that because you can’t, does not mean a working man can’t. I live with my boyfriend. We both enjoy gaming, so we can spend 3-4 hours gaming a day. It also counts as spending time with your partner.

i just wish we could salvage the rings

The biggest mistake Anet has done since this game was released was add a new dungeon system AND a new item tier and link them solely together.

Yes they PLAN on adding new ways to get the items (and yes they already have with laurels). However, that is still what now, 3 or 4 months late?

They took a game which, like the OP said, offered multiple different playstyles a path to the top equipment of the game. The game really wasn’t about grinding for gear, gear was supposed to play a minor role and instead the game was supposed to be about skill (like GW1). As soon as they made a “grind” for a “top item”, it suddenly became just another WoW. Lion’s Arch filled with people who never leave and just run FOTM.

Now I don’t have a problem with FOTM (To be completely honest I did my FIRST set EVER last night lol). I’m sure people really enjoy it and I’m glad they added it. As dungeons go it’s clever. But like I said, linking the new tier of gear to it for 3+ months was a BAD BAD BAD idea. They realized that, and it has just taken them a very long time to try to fix it.

kRiza krimos.1637:

@OP
It would be wonderful if forum cryers would first do some research and inform themselves, then make complain threads if there is need.
ANet already stated there will be more ways to get laurels and soon, dailys are only first step. So its more likley that in 1 month you will be able to get more than 1 ring monthly, which makes most of your complaining in this post pointless.

It would be nice if people actually read and comprehended the post to begin with (Original title was "Anet dropped the ball.?.?.?, but seems as though the mods didn’t like that title). It wasn’t about just the Acended gear and Laurels, it was also about the half-kittened way they introduced them. Again, pre-FOTM, people had multiple ways to get to the same goal. WvW, dungeon grinding, World Events, crafting, combo of them all, etc. It wasn’t forcing people into one style of play. After FOTM dropped it basically put people into a dungeon grind (Vertical progression maybe…) for acended gear, with no other route to get them (ie WvW, World Events/Karma, crafting, etc). If someone wanted those items, they were forced into grinding FOTM over and over, which in turn affected World Events, other dungeons (to a point), and let an entire new zone (South Sun Cove) go to waste. So now, within the past week, Laurels dropped, which added another, albeit SLOW, way to get Rings, Amulets, and other items via this currency.

Sorry that you didn’t understand this from the start, but oh well…hope this clears it up a bit for ya.

I’ve resigned myself to the fact ascended gear was supposed to be in at launch. The best way for them to handle this is to continuously open up ways to attain it other than fractals.