Guild Wars 2

Lheimroo.2947:

Chuo.4238:

Basically, I believe the truth to be thus:

You don’t have to make a good MMO, or a fun MMO, to make tons of money off of people who forget what fun really is, and want to buy or grind their way to some collection of digital pixels that they don’t even actually own.

All you have to do is offer said pixels for money – and put a pretty face on it.

It’s sad, but I think that this is what most MMO’s have become. It’s no longer about the game – it’s about how much money you can make for the least amount of effort.

Which is why I find myself playing less and less…of all MMO’s…but especially this one

Preach on, brother. More and more – I just have this feeling that MMOs as a totality, the entire genre, is bunk. I don’t see any other game genre – single or multiplayer – using such persistently manipulative, cheesily anti-player tactics, and thriving for very long.

I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.

There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.

Ionut.2307:

I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.

There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.

I wish I could agree with you, but subs games are duplicitous too.

Usually a sub game or sub player offers a couple different justifications for the sub price – premium content or increased quantity of content, and inclusivity; ie that rewards are all included ‘in game’ for the sub price.

Neither of those is true nowadays.

Take WoW – a nine month hiatus on ‘content’ before the release of it’s Cataclysm expansion, and currently what is it – 8 months and on-going? before the release of it’s next. Subscription prices are ongoing during all of that time; you also don’t receive any kind of discount for the expansion prices for paying a sub for all those content-less months.

There’s no sub game that releases more content objectively than many of the f2p/b2p games out there. As for premium quality, that’s subjective but .. let’s just say that I’d lean towards content being of a relatively evenish quality between sub and f2p/b2p games.

As for inclusivity of content for the sub price – don’t make me laugh; sub games sell services and special items in their cash shops too. No such thing.

I’m not even going to get into the topic of how subscriptions can force a game to be designed with deliberate and meaningless timesinks.

So.. take it all together, and what do you get for your sub fee? Bupkiss aside of access, which most games – not even MMOs only! – include for free to their multiplayer.

I’m generally not a fan of “farewell” threads, but this one seems really productive, so I’ll comment:

The OP makes a lot of good points. I’m not leaving GW2, particularly since I’m grouped with a great guild of people, but a lot of the things the OP listed are things that have caused me to become more distant with the game.

There’s a lot of things that GW2 does right, but the game’s become pretty stagnant and it still misses some mechanics that foster really meaningful group content that both challenges and has roles to be filled which feel like they make a difference.

chronus.1326:

Dafomen.7892:

Stevizard.4926:

Sorry guys, but any customer-centered business must care about what causes customers to quit buying (or playing) their product.

[…]

Sincerely,
Stevizard

+1

When I was working for another MMO running studio, that company was ignorant for insights light these.
They basically didnt care about what anyone said if he wasnt a high paid suit, where most of them hadnt even a clue about the product itself, but had some fancy job titles and nice boards in theirs offices with some monetization statistics on it.

Trying to explain or convince them to listen to what their customers had to say even it wasnt a lawsuit was, despite all the internal and external smoke screen PR (where most of the revenue vanished in to anyway), like talking to a brick wall.
It was really weird because to me it seemed most of them just didnt want to understand whats going on, because they would have to step ‘out of line’.
They preferred to stay in their office ‘doing their job’, watching the ship sink and grabbing on what they can get.
I dont know, but thats the impression I got. And I saw the numbers, every working day.

Well, the best description about what happened next would be….a crash landing with many casualties beginning of course on the “lower end”….poor buggers.

If a company reaches a certain size, loosing touch with the basics is its biggest treat.

Anet seems to have reached that tipping point somewhere in between GW and GW2 with an integrated accelerator it seems.

To be fair, I probably should swap Anet with NCsoft.

Basically the same thing can be read at the Glassdoor page of ArenaNet too, which is what makes me so indifferent.

I’ve never seen a company come out of this. The world is changing. Customers are more self-aware, the smoke screens are becoming smaller and smaller relative to the size of the internet. There isn’t really enough money out there to lie so effectively anymore. For a while, maybe, but its becoming increasingly inefficient. Maybe that’s why a lot of companies just don’t care anymore and just want to grab as much money as they can while they still can. Nobody actually wants to provide a service anymore. It’s too much of a hassle.

I read lately a quote from somewhere, I don’t know what it was. It was that the first company which comes out and starts behaving like a normal person will become incredibly rich and well received.

Customers are growing tired of BS.
They see the BS better, and that sight isn’t going anywhere. And their mouths are not as open yet as they could be, but their wallets are closing sooner.

The first person who realizes that and gambles on honesty becomes incredibly rich.

First dev who comes here and says “You know what? You are right. Here’s what’s going on in the company now:” and lay out everything will be revered by the community and everyone will fight for him. The gamer community would kickstarter fund a guy like that up to buying up the entire company. And that’s probably not even a joke.

Have you seen what gaz did with M. Heros. That game had horrible launch reviews and was destined to die. That game is now better than ever and I would say one of the best ARPGMMOs out. And they did it by actively communicating with the player base and listening. I can’t remember a game that spends as much time communicating and actually giving the players exactly what they want.

I know ARPGS aren’t everyones thing but the way those devs are treating their playerbase and the constant stream of content is 100 times better than what ncsoft/arenanet are giving the gw2 player base.

Blizzard is another company that did huge changes to satisfy its player base. So there are some large and small companies that are actively listening to what players want and it doesn’t take 2 years or more to do it. It does suck that those 2 are ARPGMMOS and not your typical RPGMMO.

For the OP I agree with everything except for the selling of dungeon runs. If you can solo something with out using any exploits then I do not see why any one should have an issue with it. In many games I have found it fun to solo stuff that others find hard. A lot of the time I would try to grab some freeloaders and give them free loot just to help the less fortunate/skilled/whatever. Charging for it seams pretty lame but if people are willing to pay the fee then so be it. I personally wouldn’t pay but that’s my choice and I see absolutely no reason to force others to play the way I play, even if I do find what they are doing is lame. As long as no exploit are being used and I do not find being carried through a dungeon an exploit. Many players get carried every day through dungeons and even though they pretend to be helping, in reality they are just a burden.

I will be honest and admit I didn’t read the OP. Even though I seem to be dealing with more and more disappointments within the game, I’m still playing and not looking to leave… yet.

It is important that people be allowed to post these type of posts that offer their reasons on leaving the game. It’s important for the game developers to know the thoughts of this person because I would bet money his thoughts are shared by many who do not frequent these forums and, when the time comes, they will just stop logging in and move on.

I remember another game I played for several years. A patch went live and many, many people were unhappy with what was presented to us. Complaints were posted, many constructively, many not. Going away threads were posted and promptly locked. If I could, I posted on each and every one of them saying for every one of theses posts there were many leaving. My guild was dwindling and soon, my husband and I were the only ones left. None of my friends ever posted an I’m outa here post. And, when the time came, neither did I.

Well I wasn’t going to post in this thread but seeing as how there are actually some constructive things being said, I think I will do so.

I understand what the OP is saying and agree with most of it.

Personally, I have not logged in for a couple days, which for me… is really saying something. Why? Because I’m pretty sick of the grind and knowing I will never get anything cool as a drop. I’ve played for almost 2k hours, so part of my issue is boredom, but part of it is that even when these events come around, I never get any cool loot out of it. Same old garbage is all I get. Spikes, greens, blah blah blah. Since pretty much all ways of making gold in game are now kaput, I can’t even buy anything cool. I’m tired of pulling out my credit card for cool stuff. So, my credit card is sheathed. Whether or not I play here and there, I’m done supporting a developer that does nothing but suck the actual fun out of the game and give no cool content and no sure way to get cool stuff, regardless of whether you do an event 5000 times – I’m still not getting anything fun out of it.

ETA: I’m also tired of the TP monopolies and strangleholds going on. And no, I don’t even want to play the TP in my game. I’m an accountant in real life. I want to escape numbers when in my spare time, thankyouverymuch.

MercyKilling.8519:

I’m completely flabbergasted this thread made it three days and four pages without getting locked. Most other “goodbye” threads are pounced upon and closed in other forums I frequent.

With that said, I completely agree with the OP insofar as much of the game that I experienced before walking away. Nothing drew me in and made me want to keep playing it to the max levels.

I thinkl the reason this has not been Locked is, it is well formulated, and people are responding maturely… even if you look at the " can I have your stuff ?" responces… those aren’t recent. People are discussing In a constructive manner. So yes, while it is a " goodbye" thread, as someone already posted… there is No rule you can quote that says " Goodbye Threads are insta-deleted."..

I think it’s the nature of the typical " goodbye post" followed by the typical… combative, insulting " can i have your stuff." responces that leads to it being deleted.

I think as Long as we keep it upbeat, and constructive… and respond maturely..( a Lot to expect of me I know, I am amazed by my own restraint lately)… there is no real reason to delete it.

Lheimroo.2947:

Ionut.2307:

I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.

There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.

I wish I could agree with you, but subs games are duplicitous too.

Usually a sub game or sub player offers a couple different justifications for the sub price – premium content or increased quantity of content, and inclusivity; ie that rewards are all included ‘in game’ for the sub price.

Neither of those is true nowadays.

Take WoW – a nine month hiatus on ‘content’ before the release of it’s Cataclysm expansion, and currently what is it – 8 months and on-going? before the release of it’s next. Subscription prices are ongoing during all of that time; you also don’t receive any kind of discount for the expansion prices for paying a sub for all those content-less months.

There’s no sub game that releases more content objectively than many of the f2p/b2p games out there. As for premium quality, that’s subjective but .. let’s just say that I’d lean towards content being of a relatively evenish quality between sub and f2p/b2p games.

As for inclusivity of content for the sub price – don’t make me laugh; sub games sell services and special items in their cash shops too. No such thing.

I’m not even going to get into the topic of how subscriptions can force a game to be designed with deliberate and meaningless timesinks.

So.. take it all together, and what do you get for your sub fee? Bupkiss aside of access, which most games – not even MMOs only! – include for free to their multiplayer.

And In the time that WoW has had 2 expansions , How many has Gw2 had?

GW2 went the same way GW1 did, only 3-4 years earlier. With GW1 it started when they cancelled expansions and instead released living world (while making GW2), with GW2 the decay started pretty much by design after release.

GW2 NEEDS content expansion, it does not need, or want, any more of this LS junk.

chronus.1326:

Dafomen.7892:

Stevizard.4926:

Sorry guys, but any customer-centered business must care about what causes customers to quit buying (or playing) their product.

[…]

Sincerely,
Stevizard

+1

When I was working for another MMO running studio, that company was ignorant for insights light these.
They basically didnt care about what anyone said if he wasnt a high paid suit, where most of them hadnt even a clue about the product itself, but had some fancy job titles and nice boards in theirs offices with some monetization statistics on it.

Trying to explain or convince them to listen to what their customers had to say even it wasnt a lawsuit was, despite all the internal and external smoke screen PR (where most of the revenue vanished in to anyway), like talking to a brick wall.
It was really weird because to me it seemed most of them just didnt want to understand whats going on, because they would have to step ‘out of line’.
They preferred to stay in their office ‘doing their job’, watching the ship sink and grabbing on what they can get.
I dont know, but thats the impression I got. And I saw the numbers, every working day.

Well, the best description about what happened next would be….a crash landing with many casualties beginning of course on the “lower end”….poor buggers.

If a company reaches a certain size, loosing touch with the basics is its biggest treat.

Anet seems to have reached that tipping point somewhere in between GW and GW2 with an integrated accelerator it seems.

To be fair, I probably should swap Anet with NCsoft.

Basically the same thing can be read at the Glassdoor page of ArenaNet too, which is what makes me so indifferent.

I’ve never seen a company come out of this. The world is changing. Customers are more self-aware, the smoke screens are becoming smaller and smaller relative to the size of the internet. There isn’t really enough money out there to lie so effectively anymore. For a while, maybe, but its becoming increasingly inefficient. Maybe that’s why a lot of companies just don’t care anymore and just want to grab as much money as they can while they still can. Nobody actually wants to provide a service anymore. It’s too much of a hassle.

I read lately a quote from somewhere, I don’t know what it was. It was that the first company which comes out and starts behaving like a normal person will become incredibly rich and well received.

Customers are growing tired of BS.
They see the BS better, and that sight isn’t going anywhere. And their mouths are not as open yet as they could be, but their wallets are closing sooner.

The first person who realizes that and gambles on honesty becomes incredibly rich.

First dev who comes here and says “You know what? You are right. Here’s what’s going on in the company now:” and lay out everything will be revered by the community and everyone will fight for him. The gamer community would kickstarter fund a guy like that up to buying up the entire company. And that’s probably not even a joke.

Yea, I think you can really see the decline of GW2 in the way the devs respond (or don’t respond) to the community nowadays.

Before launch and during early development, so much of the communication surrounding the game was about how they had focused on new and progressive concepts that were in response to what players wanted: Remove the gear treadmill; allow players to play with their friends, regardless of level; make the open world interesting and worth exploring; etc.

As it stands now, you don’t really see much desire from the devs to do anything progressive or in response to players’ desires. Don’t get me wrong, there are still devs who are still genuinely interested in the community, but this has become less frequent and I really get the feeling that it’s largely due to them not being able to make a difference in the company to make the changes people get excited about.

For now, I’m really watching EQN and EQN Landmark closely. This is partly because of the games themselves, but also because the devs are still very invested in the community and are so excited in making something special. I won’t be terribly surprised if the passion fades after release, similar to how it did for GW2, but for now I am still hoping it won’t and I’m willing to invest in a game people are passionate about, even if it means having to start over and spending less time on what I really want to see prosper: GW2.

Lheimroo.2947:

Chuo.4238:

Basically, I believe the truth to be thus:

You don’t have to make a good MMO, or a fun MMO, to make tons of money off of people who forget what fun really is, and want to buy or grind their way to some collection of digital pixels that they don’t even actually own.

All you have to do is offer said pixels for money – and put a pretty face on it.

It’s sad, but I think that this is what most MMO’s have become. It’s no longer about the game – it’s about how much money you can make for the least amount of effort.

Which is why I find myself playing less and less…of all MMO’s…but especially this one

Preach on, brother. More and more – I just have this feeling that MMOs as a totality, the entire genre, is bunk. I don’t see any other game genre – single or multiplayer – using such persistently manipulative, cheesily anti-player tactics, and thriving for very long.

MMO’s have become the money-makers in the eyes of money investors mainly because of WoW’s success. In reality many MMO’s fail to deliver (and thats mainly because the pure reason was to create a huge income. First MMO that is mainly based on creating just an awesome MMO and that ask fair prices will be the big money maker)

It’s also why you see so many games / franchise go MMO.

However I would not say you don’t see manipulative, cheesy anti-player tactics in other games. The whole DLC stuff is right in there as well. But I agree MMO’s are being used the most in that way.

It’s not strange that the one thing that was put in as a joke (so not with money as focus but just by some developers wanting to make something fun) is considered by many the best addition to GW2 so far. (SAB)

Ionut.2307:

Lheimroo.2947:

Chuo.4238:

Basically, I believe the truth to be thus:

You don’t have to make a good MMO, or a fun MMO, to make tons of money off of people who forget what fun really is, and want to buy or grind their way to some collection of digital pixels that they don’t even actually own.

All you have to do is offer said pixels for money – and put a pretty face on it.

It’s sad, but I think that this is what most MMO’s have become. It’s no longer about the game – it’s about how much money you can make for the least amount of effort.

Which is why I find myself playing less and less…of all MMO’s…but especially this one

Preach on, brother. More and more – I just have this feeling that MMOs as a totality, the entire genre, is bunk. I don’t see any other game genre – single or multiplayer – using such persistently manipulative, cheesily anti-player tactics, and thriving for very long.

I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.

There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.

It’s why I prefer a true B2P game.
Subs are putting a timer over your head and don’t really work anymore (after WoW there has not been one MMO so far that was successful with a sub model, thats 10 years of fails)

I hoped GW2 would be that B2P game but they turned cash-shop.

Devata.6589:

It’s why I prefer a true B2P game.
Subs are putting a timer over your head and don’t really work anymore (after WoW there has not been one MMO so far that was successful with a sub model, thats 10 years of fails)

I hoped GW2 would be that B2P game but they turned cash-shop.

Can you name me one B2P MMO that doesn’t have microtransactions?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

It’s why I prefer a true B2P game.
Subs are putting a timer over your head and don’t really work anymore (after WoW there has not been one MMO so far that was successful with a sub model, thats 10 years of fails)

I hoped GW2 would be that B2P game but they turned cash-shop.

Can you name me one B2P MMO that doesn’t have microtransactions?

Can you name me one subscription based mmo that doesn’t have microtransactions? Both WoW and ESO have them.

The argument that sub based mmos are better because they don’t have korean mmo style cash shops no longer applies, because they all do.

Iluth.6875:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

It’s why I prefer a true B2P game.
Subs are putting a timer over your head and don’t really work anymore (after WoW there has not been one MMO so far that was successful with a sub model, thats 10 years of fails)

I hoped GW2 would be that B2P game but they turned cash-shop.

Can you name me one B2P MMO that doesn’t have microtransactions?

Can you name me one subscription based mmo that doesn’t have microtransactions? Both WoW and ESO have them.

The argument that sub based mmos are better because they don’t have korean mmo style cash shops no longer applies, because they all do.

Wait, what was the point of your rebuttal to me? Or was your post directed at Devata?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Nerelith.7360:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Iluth.6875:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

It’s why I prefer a true B2P game.
Subs are putting a timer over your head and don’t really work anymore (after WoW there has not been one MMO so far that was successful with a sub model, thats 10 years of fails)

I hoped GW2 would be that B2P game but they turned cash-shop.

Can you name me one B2P MMO that doesn’t have microtransactions?

Can you name me one subscription based mmo that doesn’t have microtransactions? Both WoW and ESO have them.

The argument that sub based mmos are better because they don’t have korean mmo style cash shops no longer applies, because they all do.

Wait, what was the point of your rebuttal to me? Or was your post directed at Devata?

The rebuttal was to you. it’s clear from his use of syntax identical to your own.

I assumed it was to me, but I’m not sure where he was going with it. Where did I argue that sub based MMOs are better?

I think he inferred that you were saying all b2p games are bad because they have RMT. Not that that is what you said. The problem is… while Sub based games also have RMT… My experience with WoW is, that WoW’s RMT is Not as intrusive into the game as gw2’s since gw2 is depending on the gem store.

It should have done what it did with Guild wars… relied on the box sales of expansions. Not on the gem store.

I think the point of all this is:

I’d rather pay a sub for a GOOD game than play a crappy one for free…

If I could only find a sub game that was any good, I might agree with that conclusion. However, the best online game I ever played was B2P. It was the only online game I’ve tried that didn’t offer me pablum to keep me p(l)aying.

The “content” between paid expansions in sub games offers little that the GW2 Living World doesn’t offer. It’s mostly just the same crap — stuff to keep you coming back tomorrow. The ongoing “service” in the MMO genre is little more than an attempt to part people from their money. The only part of MMO’s I find worth playing through is usually the leveling or story — if there even is one. That’s why I prefer B2P games.

If you actually like the raid hamster wheel, ymmv.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

It’s why I prefer a true B2P game.
Subs are putting a timer over your head and don’t really work anymore (after WoW there has not been one MMO so far that was successful with a sub model, thats 10 years of fails)

I hoped GW2 would be that B2P game but they turned cash-shop.

Can you name me one B2P MMO that doesn’t have microtransactions?

GW1 did for a while at least. But I am not sure what the point is of your question? Most MMO’s are used as purely money grabbers we already came to that conclusion so now most MMO’s try to attack money in every possible way.
And why ask specifically for MMO’s because most non-MMO games (including games with MP) use a B2P model without any micro-transactions. Yes running cost on a MMO can be higher but putting out expansions and selling them would be easier and faster.

Besides there are forms of micro-transactions (to the side) that I am fine with and that are not bad for the game. Sell ‘out of game’ stuff like name-changer, world transfer, sex-changer, race-changer, full make-over (not only haircuts, that belongs in the game) and if provided enough characters from the start (so the same number as races or classes you have, whatever is highest, and getting an extra character slot when that number gets upped in an expansion) then even selling additional character slots can be fine.

I can even be fine with a form of VIP sub model if also that is completely ‘out of game’, I would then name it a beta sub as that is what it would provide, access to beta / test servers and maybe a temporary title or if new drops becomes available ingame that those people are able to get the drop (or buy the item if it sells from a vendor) a week sooner (as long as that does not effect the economy!).

So I am fine with those sort of things as long as they stay within some borders. Problem is most companies have shown they can’t handle it and will expand it way outside of those borders negatively effecting the game itself.

Main thingis that the box sales including expansion need to have the focus and the cash-shop is pure extra side-income.

Iluth.6875:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

It’s why I prefer a true B2P game.
Subs are putting a timer over your head and don’t really work anymore (after WoW there has not been one MMO so far that was successful with a sub model, thats 10 years of fails)

I hoped GW2 would be that B2P game but they turned cash-shop.

Can you name me one B2P MMO that doesn’t have microtransactions?

Can you name me one subscription based mmo that doesn’t have microtransactions? Both WoW and ESO have them.

The argument that sub based mmos are better because they don’t have korean mmo style cash shops no longer applies, because they all do.

That is not really fair as you can’t really compare for example WoW’s cash-shop and how it effects the game with GW2’s cash-shop. Of course WoW should not do that being a sub but they do sell mainly out of game items. Only ingame stuff they sell are something like 11 mini’s, 8 mounts and 3 hats. I am not saying that that is good but with likely > 100 of all those things in the game itself and no focus on selling them it’s not comparable to gw2’s cash-shop.

Chuo.4238:

I think the point of all this is:

I’d rather pay a sub for a GOOD game than play a crappy one for free…

Yeah maybe but GW2 was not for free. In a way a true B2P game is like a sub but you pay your sub about once a year by buying a expansion and you don’t have the timer over your head all the time. Want to buy the expansion a month or 2 later then you do that.

Devata.6589:

CHIPS.6018:

Retsuko.2035:

JoeytheHutt.1742:

I dont understand why ppl have a problem with goodbye posts. I understand why Anet dont want them, but other players?

Because 99% of the goodbye posts are simply QQ posts (just like this thread), where OP is crying over what he/she didn’t like about the game. So instead of just moving on, he or she has to keep on posting and giving their reasons for why this game supposedly sucks.

Nobody cares if you dislike the game. If you can’t let go, it just proves you’ve been highly addicted.

Their reasons for not liking the game are often not even valid. Take for example the OP’s reason for the role a class play’s (The OP’s essay on multiplayer play). From half reading his/her post, it seems that queensdale champ train or Orr train, some casual dungeon and living story content was the most this OP has ever done.
Go into WvW and experience real combat at first hand and you’ll learn how important certain class roles are in real PvP based battles.

Only yourself can make the game as boring or as interesting and exciting as possible.

I was hardcore WvW on high tier servers. I was a commander that lead though TeamSpeak. But I eventually I got burnt out/bored. As fun as it was when I started, it eventually become the same thing over and over again.

Stack, Fire+blast, fight, stack, water+blast, portal bomb, fight, stack, fire+blast, etc

I am not saying WvW is not fun. But after doing “too much” of it, I realize it is indeed the same thing over and over again. The skill ceiling, even for WvW, is very low.

If the WvW skill ceiling is high there should be multiple type of zerg. Each zerg type would fulfill totally different roles in battle.

LOLWUT?

Yes it is true. If you look at RTSs like Rome: Total War, you see the players use a combination of different type of units. Each unit type has its strength and weakness. And each unit are to operate separately. They only come together if it is beneficial.

Instead, we only see in one kind of zerg in WvW. There are elementalist fields and mesmer portals. But there is only one kind of zerg. There is only one kind of zerg design. And in them there are elementalists and mesmers doing their thing.

There is no army formation possible. And after running this only ONE kind of zerg every day, using very similar tactics (after a while you would have seen everything), WvW gets boring.

That has a lot to do with the lack of roles in this game. No not saying we need the holy trinity I say we need roles and that can be more then just tank, healer and dps.

In addition there should be room for more tactics in GW2. Other ways to get inside a keep (colour your own dolyak in another colour and hide inside it, player collision detection to create a human stair and more of that sort of things) lastly it would be good to have a more sandbox map where guilds build there own castles and fight / defend that. Possible even with guild-member housing inside there borders. Then there would be a reason to fight and defend in stead of only just flipping flags and moving on.

The diversity of the roles is indeed very minimal. Other than elementalist fields and mesmer portal, there is literally no other must haves “roles” for your WvW zerg.

Without any elementalist? OMG! So our whole zerg can’t gain might? Our whole zerg can’t heal?

Without any mesmer? OMG! No portal bombs?

If you have a guardian in your zerg of 60, you can replace him with a necromancer and the difference would be minimal. Or a warrior. Or an engineer.

Rangers used to have the unique role of “Siege protector” But that skill got nerfed and now rangers are just another no-body (join the crowd).

At the same time, we have the thief class that cannot fight with the zerg at all.

And lack of body blocking doesn’t help at all. This ensures no army formation is possible.

I am not a game designer. I can only judge a game as a player. And I just feel that the current GW2 combat system is VERY DULL. That is true for 1v1, 5v5, 30v30, 60v60. The skill ceiling is just so low across all levels.

We can also see how poorly the AI is. Mobs have like 20 times your health (LOLWUT?) and 5 times your damage (LOLWUT?), and they still can’t beat you 1v1.

This is why I turned to Minecraft for my MMO desires

Star Ace.5207:

NewTrain.7549:

Corpus Christi.2057:

NewTrain.7549:

Star Ace.5207:

Devata.6589:

Star Ace.5207:

To be honest, the “permanent content” will 100% surely come. There are way too many new map entrances that are currently blocked, and too many already mentioned areas on the universal map that haven’t been opened yet. Only ONE Dragon has officially been “vanquished”. A new one was added to fight. There’s plenty of GW2 universe to be expanded upon. Just wait for it, for it will surely come in due time.

Can you seriously tell me that you don’t expect them to open up all of those inaccessible areas in the future (those will be tons of maps!) I actually am even hoping they open the Torment Realm (not on the official map, of course) at some point, which was fun back then.

Adding in new maps does not mean the temporary LS content becomes permanent. People ask for expansions or some for expansion-like content. That’s asking for maps and new races and so on. However when people ask for the LS to not be temporary anymore it’s exactly that. The LS not being a patch that releases some temporary available content, activities and rewards.

You’ll see-eventually many more maps will-open up.

If after nearly 1.75 years they have yet to do so (aside from Southsun), what makes you so sure they will in the future?

He’s betting. It’s a sound bet, though, for a simple reason: if it doesn’t happen, the game dies. Why? People’s been complaining about lack of solid, fresh and expansion-worthy permanent content for months now. The devs must have noticed it by now. It’s both a bet and a hope.

If I was playing roulette and for 20 months straight it never landed on black, I certainly wouldn’t bet on black.

Actually not just a bet-just see the map and all the blacked out regions. If you played the original, you know how important some of these regions were. Add that up to the remaining dragons needed to be slain, and that’s the only solution-permanent maps, and permanent content as we move forward.

I did play GW1, extensively.

You claim that these new areas of the map are important and warrant access…and if that was true, why did ANet give us the joke that was LS season 1?

You claim there are more elder dragons that need to be slain…and if ANet considered that a priority, why did we get Scarlet.

Listen, I’m not saying your predictions aren’t logical, I’m just saying it’s clear ANet’s plans for this game aren’t. Trying to apply logic to anything they do is a recipe for disappointment.

NewTrain.7549:

I did play GW1, extensively.

You claim that these new areas of the map are important and warrant access…and if that was true, why did ANet give us the joke that was LS season 1?

You claim there are more elder dragons that need to be slain…and if ANet considered that a priority, why did we get Scarlet.

Listen, I’m not saying your predictions aren’t logical, I’m just saying it’s clear ANet’s plans for this game aren’t. Trying to apply logic to anything they do is a recipe for disappointment.

Because releasing new areas and new massive fights takes time, and they would rather give is a somewhat stand-alone story while working on that, instead of giving us nothing at all for 2 years while they work on said stuff?
We KNOW that they are working on more stuff than the Living Story, it is quite likely that at least some of that stuff IS tied to those areas and the elder dragons.

Yes there are Elder Dragons to slay. There was also an Elder Dragon that had not woken up yet. The whole of Season 1 was building up to said Dragon waking up. Simple as that.

lordkrall.7241:

NewTrain.7549:

I did play GW1, extensively.

You claim that these new areas of the map are important and warrant access…and if that was true, why did ANet give us the joke that was LS season 1?

You claim there are more elder dragons that need to be slain…and if ANet considered that a priority, why did we get Scarlet.

Listen, I’m not saying your predictions aren’t logical, I’m just saying it’s clear ANet’s plans for this game aren’t. Trying to apply logic to anything they do is a recipe for disappointment.

Because releasing new areas and new massive fights takes time, and they would rather give is a somewhat stand-alone story while working on that, instead of giving us nothing at all for 2 years while they work on said stuff?
We KNOW that they are working on more stuff than the Living Story, it is quite likely that at least some of that stuff IS tied to those areas and the elder dragons.

Yes there are Elder Dragons to slay. There was also an Elder Dragon that had not woken up yet. The whole of Season 1 was building up to said Dragon waking up. Simple as that.

And your proof for these claims is…where? If the only proof you have to offer is your opinion, I’m not convinced. Simple as that.

There’s been interviews and statements from Colin, I think, that stated that.

Behellagh.1468:

There’s been interviews and statements from Colin, I think, that stated that.

Again, has ANet proven that it adheres to its “interviews and statements”?

@ Stevewizard

wanted to pm u, but have to wait 2 days for spam reason thing… dont really get it
here is what i wanted to say.

hello
i read ur answer to the post " farwell gw2"
when u answered that it s juvenile to laugh at someone who actually posts a " i quit the game becos XXX " , players who laugh at others, or who act like, " just quit the game and shut up " are what hurts teh company, player who post why they quit, are actually beneficial for a company…etc
all that stuff

i loved ur answer
it s the very first time, i see someone this wise
i was thinking that too, but too lazy to actually post it, and kinda dont want to say something taht might actually helps stupid people.

now , to confirm if u r wise or not, u do think and say it, cos u work at a customer service thing, or u do , personnally think like that ?

i aint even read all the posts, i felt the urge to tell u taht asap.

Lheimroo.2947:

Ionut.2307:

I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.

There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.

I wish I could agree with you, but subs games are duplicitous too.

Usually a sub game or sub player offers a couple different justifications for the sub price – premium content or increased quantity of content, and inclusivity; ie that rewards are all included ‘in game’ for the sub price.

Neither of those is true nowadays.

Take WoW – a nine month hiatus on ‘content’ before the release of it’s Cataclysm expansion, and currently what is it – 8 months and on-going? before the release of it’s next. Subscription prices are ongoing during all of that time; you also don’t receive any kind of discount for the expansion prices for paying a sub for all those content-less months.

There’s no sub game that releases more content objectively than many of the f2p/b2p games out there. As for premium quality, that’s subjective but .. let’s just say that I’d lean towards content being of a relatively evenish quality between sub and f2p/b2p games.

As for inclusivity of content for the sub price – don’t make me laugh; sub games sell services and special items in their cash shops too. No such thing.

I’m not even going to get into the topic of how subscriptions can force a game to be designed with deliberate and meaningless timesinks.

So.. take it all together, and what do you get for your sub fee? Bupkiss aside of access, which most games – not even MMOs only! – include for free to their multiplayer.

Amen. People praising subscription models are diluting themselves. I don’t like the gem-store-centric direction of GW2 these days, but a subscription won’t fix anything.

Honestly, this is very well written. Its more of a feedback thread than a farewell which is why I think arenanet left it open.

I agree with everything.

In a shorter summation:

-Living Story: With the main development and focus on LS, I see that I cannot follow this game further than leveling 5 characters to 80, running every dungeon, running fractals into the ground and getting a map completion, along with completing the main story. After this, I have..what to look forward to? Poor story telling in 2 week crumbs? For me, there will be no substantial content added to the game and kept there. For me, Im “done”. Ive beaten the game, so to speak.

-Meaningless Multiplayer: Totally agree here. Combined with the way LS is designed, you follow zergs and smash one or two keys. Theres no thought, no skill, no challenge, no fear of death, nothing. Its pointless. You can have a really tricked out build but its useless if you cannot utilize it fully. Oh, you say you do, but you dont need to. You can be that support guardian in the zerg of 100, but its not needed. The baddy will die in a few seconds anyways.

Ive pretty much left GW2 as well. Gave up on it long ago, tried to come back and I just cant stick with it seeing how arenanet is actually pleased with the direction of living story and all. Maybe in the future Ill pop in again, but right now I dont want to and for the forseeable future I dont want to. Wildstar headstart is Friday night/saturday morning, and this will occupy my time for the next several months at least, if not years(hopefully..just as I had hoped GW2 would have).

GW2 launched as a fun innovative fantastic MMO. GW2 had more MMO to it than WoW. It was fun.

Your game is no longer fun. In my opinion, it ceased to be fun when it was clear your dev direction is living story and ascended gear. Once living story was in full swing with zergs, the actual gameplay was no longer fun. It was literally boring. How can mashing one or two keys be fun? It isnt. And ascended gear…that whole grey area debacle has never been truely confronted, even with the AMA. Was it always intended or not? If it was always intended, how come it wasn’t announced at launch that another tier was coming…how come you didnt take steps to avoid looking like you went back on principles? I digress.

The game isn’t fun, so I am not playing it anymore.

Take my criticisms as information if you want (I hope).

@cesmode Totally agree both with you and the OP. I loved the idea of GW2 at the beginning, but with time, the direction taken by the devs proved to be demolishing for the game.
I do hope, though, that GW3 is better thought out in advance.

Corpus Christi.2057:

@cesmode Totally agree both with you and the OP. I loved the idea of GW2 at the beginning, but with time, the direction taken by the devs proved to be demolishing for the game.
I do hope, though, that GW3 is better thought out in advance.

Only thing they can do is improve GW2. I say it for over a year now and keep repeating it. There main problem is the cash-shop focus. 2 other big problems is the quick and dirty solutions (development term), most in your face examples are instanced maps and invisible walls but many of the bugs are likely also coming from that as well. Lastly wanting to be different just for the sake of being different and being stubborn about it.

GW3 would likely not sell really good so improve those core problems and then we might end up with a better product. Don’t and we might end up with a failed product.

saikodan.6721:

Each time some dude decideds to leave, they go full dramatic on us.
It’s just a game.
A great one in my opinion , but still, a game.

i mean no offense but, everytime i see " it s just a game "
i assume the person saying this just cant understand, someone else feelings, and just being really selfish.
something might have no meaning, no importance at all to u, but means the world to other.
" it s just a game " is totally exactly like " it s jsut a dog " when ur childhood dog dies and u cry for months, then someone tells u that, u ll only feel the need to kill that person.

when u lost something important to u and, someone comes up and say the despicable sentence " its just a XXX " , u ll feel worse and worse.

Devata.6589:

Corpus Christi.2057:

@cesmode Totally agree both with you and the OP. I loved the idea of GW2 at the beginning, but with time, the direction taken by the devs proved to be demolishing for the game.
I do hope, though, that GW3 is better thought out in advance.

Only thing they can do is improve GW2. I say it for over a year now and keep repeating it. There main problem is the cash-shop focus. 2 other big problems is the quick and dirty solutions (development term), most in your face examples are instanced maps and invisible walls but many of the bugs are likely also coming from that as well. Lastly wanting to be different just for the sake of being different and being stubborn about it.

GW3 would likely sell really good so improve those core problems and then we might end up with a better product. Don’t and we might end up with a failed product.

I dont think the “in your face” cash shop marketing and ads are essentially a problem. Its annoying, and its definately noticeably being pushed at you when you load up the launcher. But its not a game breaking experiencing killing issue.

Things like dev direction, mechanics, etc…those are gameplay breaking. Sigh. The game launched and was so fantastic. I was in heaven. Finally a game made for someone like me. Then they turned their focus to the new tier of gear, and then living story. All attention from open world DEs that the game launched with, and dungeons and all..all of that attention shifted to ascended and LS. Everything that I truely enjoyed was and still is neglected. 2 years later, parts of the core that the game launched with are neglected because arenanet has a vision, because they know better than we do. They say they listen, but really they just hear noise from us and ignore everything we are telling them.

And don’t hold your breathe on GW3 We are only 2 years into GW2. If they had any aspirations for GW3, I think they could start thinking of concepts in the next 2 years, but dev will take 5…so at earliest, 2019 or 2020. By that time, Im done with MMOs(or I better be).

Besides, after all the people they burned with GW2, all of the core Guild Wars fans, do they really want to take a stab at another Guild Wars game?

-_- Cash shop is not the problem. …Well, not entirely. Development will likely follow the dollars, which leads to more stuff sold in the cash shop.

The bigger problem is a lack of solid, enduring content being put out for us. Possible correlation to the cash shop, but not proven cause.

That Other Game (y’know, the one whose head-start beings kinda soon) has a development team doing what Living Story should have been. Rather than make global, disjointed events, they have a separate story track and are adding to it over time.

So, instead of downing Zhaitan as the end-game accomplishment, we should be getting more Personal Story and less Living World.

Or an expansion, we should get one of those. That’d be nice.

cesmode.4257:

Devata.6589:

Corpus Christi.2057:

@cesmode Totally agree both with you and the OP. I loved the idea of GW2 at the beginning, but with time, the direction taken by the devs proved to be demolishing for the game.
I do hope, though, that GW3 is better thought out in advance.

Only thing they can do is improve GW2. I say it for over a year now and keep repeating it. There main problem is the cash-shop focus. 2 other big problems is the quick and dirty solutions (development term), most in your face examples are instanced maps and invisible walls but many of the bugs are likely also coming from that as well. Lastly wanting to be different just for the sake of being different and being stubborn about it.

GW3 would likely sell really good so improve those core problems and then we might end up with a better product. Don’t and we might end up with a failed product.

I dont think the “in your face” cash shop marketing and ads are essentially a problem. Its annoying, and its definately noticeably being pushed at you when you load up the launcher. But its not a game breaking experiencing killing issue.

Things like dev direction, mechanics, etc…those are gameplay breaking. Sigh. The game launched and was so fantastic. I was in heaven. Finally a game made for someone like me. Then they turned their focus to the new tier of gear, and then living story. All attention from open world DEs that the game launched with, and dungeons and all..all of that attention shifted to ascended and LS. Everything that I truely enjoyed was and still is neglected. 2 years later, parts of the core that the game launched with are neglected because arenanet has a vision, because they know better than we do. They say they listen, but really they just hear noise from us and ignore everything we are telling them.

And don’t hold your breathe on GW3 We are only 2 years into GW2. If they had any aspirations for GW3, I think they could start thinking of concepts in the next 2 years, but dev will take 5…so at earliest, 2019 or 2020. By that time, Im done with MMOs(or I better be).

Besides, after all the people they burned with GW2, all of the core Guild Wars fans, do they really want to take a stab at another Guild Wars game?

Haha, you may be right, but it’s not like I’m bound to GW franchise only, so it doesn’t hurt to have any hopes regarding it. I’m ordering ArcheAge beta soon, and deep inside, I do hope for the continuation of the best MMO in history – Lineage 2. And I don’t mean Lineage Eternal, but a true Lineage 3. Hopefully, it’s out one day!

Cheers!:)

Lineage was too grindy for me. Im hoping Wildstar keeps my interests for a few years, or if all else fails, everquest next…thats probably the last dip into an MMO Id make unless we get a WoW 2 or something at that point.

I hate Wowstar so much…

I am thinking about leaving too…
I bough the game last year with the Christmas promotion and I loved it!
I really loved the character designs especially the profession designs(that’s what really got me in and still keeps me playing right now,when I play a profession I really feel that I play a Thief or Guardian…),the beautiful world(the Capital Cities are a little bit overexagerated in my oppinion but it’s ok).

When I start to play a game,any game I really love to dive in to the core,that means Lore mainly what Guild Wars 2 lacks a little bit there are many misses even on the Wiki(and yes I found the Gw1 wiki too)it’s not really updated,not many images etc.I wish for more lore,I hunger for!especially the human.

Then I go deeper into the game and it’s mechanics and all…and I got that feel that I am toyed,I am just a puppet in the hands of the developers…what I wish to say here is that I cannot really do anything what developers actually did not think out before me ages ago or go into roads what they are not expecting…everything feels like a I have no free will in the game at all,suit yourself or be exiled.Everything is so controlled that sometimes I feel that I cannot even control anything in the game and everything I do was foreseen long ago.
For example I really hate that I cannot go only on specific roads or cannot go into dungeons beside zerk or just play any innovative build beside Nike,…,…. builds and so on.

I could write this post much longer but I am not a patient man and I don’t really have rights to complain as others with 2 age of gameplay about game issues,but I wish to say one more last thing what pushes me toward leaving:
-The lack of chalange:Let’s see the current event the Gauntlet’s last boss Liadri the Concealing Dark:I think she made plenty of Neurons got destroyed from every player who tried her and many angry Alt+F4 or broken keyboards.
But she is actually not hard at all or hardcore gamecontent as many fans say.If you know the right pattern it’s pretty easy even with gambits.To be honest I spent over 200 ticket on her but I done her.
What I wish to point out the game can be hard for first,anything but if you get the knowledge you can manage to defeat any enemy without a single hit and I am not joking and I think many can approve this.
In my opinion the hardness of a game should not be around instant killing or just around dps…it’s should be more challenging and not only to your reflexes(Some of us cannot afford a NASA Pc for FPS)but to your mind too and Guild Wars 2 proved that they can do both but not really in a combined way.Just try out some dungeon runs without hardcore dpsing and stacking and you’ll been able to see that GW2 can be challenging but if I even try to suggest that I get harassed…

cesmode.4257:

Lineage was too grindy for me. Im hoping Wildstar keeps my interests for a few years, or if all else fails, everquest next…thats probably the last dip into an MMO Id make unless we get a WoW 2 or something at that point.

Lineage was meant to be grindy, but at the same time it was both thrilling and rewarding. E.g., when crafting, you had a percentage chance to craft something or fail. Nothing like here when you take it for granted. So, indeed, you had to grind and gather loads of resources just to be sure that one of those 3, 4 or 5 attempts at crafting were successful.^^ I loved that risky business!

As to WS, I’ve got my pre-order! Waiting for a headstart in 3 days time!:P

Well, let’s be honest, if WoW2 comes out, any MMO game will get empty.

cesmode.4257:

Devata.6589:

Corpus Christi.2057:

@cesmode Totally agree both with you and the OP. I loved the idea of GW2 at the beginning, but with time, the direction taken by the devs proved to be demolishing for the game.
I do hope, though, that GW3 is better thought out in advance.

Only thing they can do is improve GW2. I say it for over a year now and keep repeating it. There main problem is the cash-shop focus. 2 other big problems is the quick and dirty solutions (development term), most in your face examples are instanced maps and invisible walls but many of the bugs are likely also coming from that as well. Lastly wanting to be different just for the sake of being different and being stubborn about it.

GW3 would likely sell really good so improve those core problems and then we might end up with a better product. Don’t and we might end up with a failed product.

I dont think the “in your face” cash shop marketing and ads are essentially a problem. Its annoying, and its definately noticeably being pushed at you when you load up the launcher. But its not a game breaking experiencing killing issue.

Things like dev direction, mechanics, etc…those are gameplay breaking. Sigh. The game launched and was so fantastic. I was in heaven. Finally a game made for someone like me. Then they turned their focus to the new tier of gear, and then living story. All attention from open world DEs that the game launched with, and dungeons and all..all of that attention shifted to ascended and LS. Everything that I truely enjoyed was and still is neglected. 2 years later, parts of the core that the game launched with are neglected because arenanet has a vision, because they know better than we do. They say they listen, but really they just hear noise from us and ignore everything we are telling them.

And don’t hold your breathe on GW3 We are only 2 years into GW2. If they had any aspirations for GW3, I think they could start thinking of concepts in the next 2 years, but dev will take 5…so at earliest, 2019 or 2020. By that time, Im done with MMOs(or I better be).

Besides, after all the people they burned with GW2, all of the core Guild Wars fans, do they really want to take a stab at another Guild Wars game?

“But its not a game breaking experiencing killing issue.” That completely depends on your game-play.
In most MMO’s the way I played was usually driven by chasing down rewards or items in the game. Being it while crafting and hunting down recipes or items I needed, or hunting down mini’s or mounts and so on.

That has simply been removed from GW2 and turned into a gold-grind to benefit the cash-shop.

So yes it can very well be a “game breaking experiencing killing issue.”

“Things like dev direction, mechanics, etc…those are gameplay breaking.” Yeah and those get influenced by the way a game gets monetized. Is the question “how do we get people to buy gems” then you implement other mechanics and take another direction then if the question is “how do we get people to buy out next expansion”. Living world being a perfect example of a direction that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus.

Would they focus on releasing a new expansion every year then you would likely already have seen new maps with new DE and new dungeons and have a better overall game because a game-play element as hunting down items in the game would be there. In addition you might be able to visit a barber to cut your hair instead of grinding gold to change the hair. (I don’t count buying gems as game-play).

After there released they suddenly went completely cash-shop. That became apparent about half a year in. There where some negatives at launch already (like all mini’s being in the cash-shop) but most where not extremely bad or where not noticeable (I for example did expect there where also mini’s in the game itself) but then after about half a year things really started to take a turn for the worse.

So most of the thinks you talk about may very well be linked to that cash-shop focus.

I am not waiting for GW3. That was in reaction to another person talking about GW3.
And no GW3 would sell way less. That was my point.

Rauderi.8706:

-_- Cash shop is not the problem. …Well, not entirely. Development will likely follow the dollars, which leads to more stuff sold in the cash shop.

The bigger problem is a lack of solid, enduring content being put out for us. Possible correlation to the cash shop, but not proven cause.

That Other Game (y’know, the one whose head-start beings kinda soon) has a development team doing what Living Story should have been. Rather than make global, disjointed events, they have a separate story track and are adding to it over time.

So, instead of downing Zhaitan as the end-game accomplishment, we should be getting more Personal Story and less Living World.

Or an expansion, we should get one of those. That’d be nice.

“-_- Cash shop is not the problem. …Well, not entirely. Development will likely follow the dollars, which leads to more stuff sold in the cash shop.
The bigger problem is a lack of solid, enduring content being put out for us. Possible correlation to the cash shop, but not proven cause.”

So what you say here is: ‘The cash-shop is not the problem. Well it is but we just can’t proof it.’

You are correct, we can only use common sense to get that conclusion. However when GW2 came with the news “if we do this right there will be no expansions” I did get worried because common sense told me it would mean a cash-shop-focus and we would get much of.. well the stuff we did see over the last year.

I am not a fan of the personal story as don’t play a mmo to play a single-player game but I do agree on the expansions. What we would have gotten if they had focused on expansions to generate the income.

Amnariel.3659:

-The lack of chalange:Let’s see the current event the Gauntlet’s last boss Liadri the Concealing Dark:I think she made plenty of Neurons got destroyed from every player who tried her and many angry Alt+F4 or broken keyboards.
But she is actually not hard at all or hardcore gamecontent as many fans say.If you know the right pattern it’s pretty easy even with gambits.To be honest I spent over 200 ticket on her but I done her.
What I wish to point out the game can be hard for first,anything but if you get the knowledge you can manage to defeat any enemy without a single hit and I am not joking and I think many can approve this.

I’m sorry to derail this a bit by nitpicking this one point, but this is a personal pet peeve of mine.

You spent two hundred tokens practicing Liadri and YOU CLAIM SHE WAS EASY?

Kitten. Man. Get some perspective. There are people who log fewer hours to learn how not to crash a helicopter. Of course everything gets easier with practice; that doesn’t mean it was always easy from the start.

I personally think the whole gauntlet was and remains a breath of fresh air. It’s exactly the kind of content we should be getting – and getting rewarded for finishing. What do we get, though, for Liadri? A mini and.. jack else. Heck, I wouldn’t be complaining about ascended if it was earned through a series of Liadri-style challenges instead of dull-kitten boring grind.

Devata.6589:

“But its not a game breaking experiencing killing issue.” That completely depends on your game-play.
In most MMO’s the way I played was usually driven by chasing down rewards or items in the game. Being it while crafting and hunting down recipes or items I needed, or hunting down mini’s or mounts and so on.

That has simply been removed from GW2 and turned into a gold-grind to benefit the cash-shop.

So yes it can very well be a “game breaking experiencing killing issue.”

“Things like dev direction, mechanics, etc…those are gameplay breaking.” Yeah and those get influenced by the way a game gets monetized. Is the question “how do we get people to buy gems” then you implement other mechanics and take another direction then if the question is “how do we get people to buy out next expansion”. Living world being a perfect example of a direction that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus.

Would they focus on releasing a new expansion every year then you would likely already have seen new maps with new DE and new dungeons and have a better overall game because a game-play element as hunting down items in the game would be there. In addition you might be able to visit a barber to cut your hair instead of grinding gold to change the hair. (I don’t count buying gems as game-play).

After there released they suddenly went completely cash-shop. That became apparent about half a year in. There where some negatives at launch already (like all mini’s being in the cash-shop) but most where not extremely bad or where not noticeable (I for example did expect there where also mini’s in the game itself) but then after about half a year things really started to take a turn for the worse.

So most of the thinks you talk about may very well be linked to that cash-shop focus.

I am not waiting for GW3. That was in reaction to another person talking about GW3.
And no GW3 would sell way less. That was my point.

If what you say is true then the game teeters on pay to win and I dont think anyone would agree with that assessment.

The fact that they push ads in your face to purchase from the gemstore has no bearing on whether or not you’ll enjoy killing a baddy in a dungeon or wasting your time in LS. The fact that theres a new dress to buy in the gem store has no impact on your fun in WvW.

Now, if youre talking baout the gem to gold conversion, thats slightly different but still very much debatable. When I played, I acquired tons of materials from efficient farming routes and spots. I just played the game, very boring because of the grindy nature, but I was able to accumlate a ton of materials without dropping a dime into gem to gold conversion to purchase off of the TP. I stopped playing seriously about 5 months ago, for half year prior to that I played on and off, amassing maybe 1100 hours. So in 2 years, 1100 hours is pretty average for someone that bought the game at launch. I didnt play 24/7. Its not hard to accumulate what you need, aside from precursors.

I echo OPs, which is why I too uninstalled last month, though I was funtionally inactive for half a year already (sans the forums, because I like arguing too much).
I’d like to repost a little HD remastered collection of two recent posts of mine, which combined makes actually a neat I-quit-manifesto itself.

GW1 would not be half the game if it weren’t for its 3 expansions.
GW2 improvements two years on literally are laughable compared to the one GW1 had at this point in time.

There hasn’t been a single full endgame dungeon since the Living Story doctrine began (one overall, Fractals, which was before they decided on quantity over quality)
You might say the handful instances we got delivered via LS count as “endgame dungeons”. First of all endgame, at least to me, implies not being able to finish something on the first 1-2 try, i.e. it has longevity (of which reasonable difficulty is a major part), which of course isn’t compatible with the 2 week framework of LS. But more importantly, to anyone who wasn’t around at exactly that time interval, they are irrelevant. They don’t exist anymore.
No new zones. Expansions gave us entire continents.
There has only been exactly one full, ingame earnable armor set. And it’s tied to an insane amount of grind. Each expansion of GW1 gave us dozens of new armor skins, all ingame acquirable.
The new weapon skins have mostly either been locked behind a (legally unregulated) gambling wall, or were festival skins like Toy/SAB weapons, which is a shame.

In almost two years, we got 5 new traits per class + one healing skill. I haven’t done the math, but in — wait for it — GW1 I reckon there were over 1000 new skills (separating it by class is meaningless because you could dual-class), 4 new professions and several new weapon types.

What exactly is happening here? Well it’s not hard to lift the curtain a bit. NCSoft is keeping this game on life-support mode and is essentially milking it’s established consumer base. The profits of this, however, don’t go into improving and advancing the game itself. Since this company is a multinational corporation with several (dozens?) of MMOs under it’s hood, they mainly flow into subsidizing other upcoming projects.
Since due to the anemic life-support approach there is probably very little comparative growth amonst the GW2 user base still in the established Western markets, the only way to grow it’s base is via the release in the biggest untapped market, China, where this strategy will be continued (whereas another way to grow it would be via an expansion, which traditionally is the biggest marketing coup a game can receive after it’s release).

The history of Anet and PvP reminds me of a person. He was a cute kid when he was little, smart, and paid attention in school, got good grades. But some things went wrong down the trajectory towards adulthood and now he has a beergut, neckbeard, smells faintly of alcohol and has questionable political beliefs. He dropped out of college, too.
He’s didn’t even become a “bad” person. It’s not something that he could “work on” — he just grew up into the person he is now, for better or worse, and he is happy with his menial job and his life consisting of frozen dinners and TV. And he doesn’t do drugs or is unemployed, you know? It’s not as bad as it could be.

What I’m trying to say, the honeymoon of great PvP that we had 2005-2009 was ultimately just a phase in ANet’s life. It’s futile to look back on this and tell the ANet of now: Look, you were so cute in this photograph! You had such good grades in junior high school!
because just like that person can’t become a cute kid again no matter how hard we wish, ANet won’t become a PvP heavyweight again. And if we can’t accept the beergut-sporting ANet of now, we better just move on.

This is not a I-quit thread, this is a thread were Yoh (and now I) offer an insight into our reasons why we leave/left. And despite what you say, they are reasons.
People who say we should create “constructive topics” about “issues” miss that firstly people like Yoh WERE the very people who were constantly creating those exact topics and posts, only for those to be ignored, and secondly, if you only ever offer critique on a specific detail you lose the perspective of the larger picture behind the reason why people are leaving. It’s not the fine details that makes people quit.

Lheimroo.2947:

Amnariel.3659:

-The lack of chalange:Let’s see the current event the Gauntlet’s last boss Liadri the Concealing Dark:I think she made plenty of Neurons got destroyed from every player who tried her and many angry Alt+F4 or broken keyboards.
But she is actually not hard at all or hardcore gamecontent as many fans say.If you know the right pattern it’s pretty easy even with gambits.To be honest I spent over 200 ticket on her but I done her.
What I wish to point out the game can be hard for first,anything but if you get the knowledge you can manage to defeat any enemy without a single hit and I am not joking and I think many can approve this.

I’m sorry to derail this a bit by nitpicking this one point, but this is a personal pet peeve of mine.

You spent two hundred tokens practicing Liadri and YOU CLAIM SHE WAS EASY?

Kitten. Man. Get some perspective. There are people who log fewer hours to learn how not to crash a helicopter. Of course everything gets easier with practice; that doesn’t mean it was always easy from the start.

I personally think the whole gauntlet was and remains a breath of fresh air. It’s exactly the kind of content we should be getting – and getting rewarded for finishing. What do we get, though, for Liadri? A mini and.. jack else. Heck, I wouldn’t be complaining about ascended if it was earned through a series of Liadri-style challenges instead of dull-kitten boring grind.

Right on with this. Liadri and the entire gauntlet really, was the type of difficulty and challenge that the game sorely needs. And I agree, if ascended were obtained through this, gaurunteed ascended some how, it would ease my mind on that whole topic.

But Arenanet cannot design the game based around these skill fights. Colin himself said the game is meant to be played in the open world with lots of players, grouped or otherwise. This means, you have to have encounters in the open world that are easy enough for random passerbys to complete together. Put aside the Tequatls of the world, and you need to water down your world so that anyone and everyone at anytime can complete the dynamic events. If they placed Liadri in the open world, while that may be awsome to some(and I agree it would), it would be a scaled down version of Teqautl with people failing left and right. People don’t want to fail all the time. They want to succeed.

cesmode.4257:

But Arenanet cannot design the game based around these skill fights. Colin himself said the game is meant to be played in the open world with lots of players, grouped or otherwise. This means, you have to have encounters in the open world that are easy enough for random passerbys to complete together. Put aside the Tequatls of the world, and you need to water down your world so that anyone and everyone at anytime can complete the dynamic events. If they placed Liadri in the open world, while that may be awsome to some(and I agree it would), it would be a scaled down version of Teqautl with people failing left and right. People don’t want to fail all the time. They want to succeed.

Hey, I know, you don’t have to have every ‘endgame’ fight as hard as Liadri. Or even as solo content. It could be small group or zerg content, too. The point is that that’s the aspirational stuff that feels so much better to get rewarded for. Right now the stuff that gets rewarded the best is the stuff that crushes your soul, and that’s terrible.

Lheimroo.2947:

cesmode.4257:

But Arenanet cannot design the game based around these skill fights. Colin himself said the game is meant to be played in the open world with lots of players, grouped or otherwise. This means, you have to have encounters in the open world that are easy enough for random passerbys to complete together. Put aside the Tequatls of the world, and you need to water down your world so that anyone and everyone at anytime can complete the dynamic events. If they placed Liadri in the open world, while that may be awsome to some(and I agree it would), it would be a scaled down version of Teqautl with people failing left and right. People don’t want to fail all the time. They want to succeed.

Hey, I know, you don’t have to have every ‘endgame’ fight as hard as Liadri. Or even as solo content. It could be small group or zerg content, too. The point is that that’s the aspirational stuff that feels so much better to get rewarded for. Right now the stuff that gets rewarded the best is the stuff that crushes your soul, and that’s terrible.

Kvetching on forums gives rewards now?

Lheimroo.2947:

Me, I’m not quitting the game – but I’m seriously disenchanted right now. It’s the whole ‘you have 2 weeks to a month to GRIND GRIND GRIND!’ for every event, with no useful rewards except mere cosmetics or toys that is burning me out.

Place that fast-paced cycle on top of an already intolerable ascended grind and it’s borderline disgusting.

Give me stuff that’s going to be permanently in the game that I can work at at my own pace. If I have two hours to play in a night I really shouldn’t feel pressured to grind the gauntlet till I’m sick of it just to earn gold in order to get ascended gear that’s really not gettable in any sane way otherwise.

Nor should I feel pressured to grind ANY event ‘or else’; it’s a cheap tactic and if it’s burning people out all I can say is it’s no wonder and good riddance; I hope these sorts of tactics end up forcing your numbers to take the patented Zynga plunge.

New minigames. New zones. New styles of play. That I’ll be able to play, as I wish, for the next five years or ten years, because they and the rewards for them are sticking around.

And for heaven’s sake, Arenanet. Stop pushing gems to gold conversion. It’s painfully obvious that the reason you’re not offering in-game ways to work towards rewards in a reasonable timescale and play fashion is because you want to sell people shortcuts. It’s wearing extremely thin.

Why can’t I farm t6 mats? Cuz the pricier and more time consuming they are to get, the better for the gem sales.

I seriously have to give kudos to you guys for at least awarding 1600 tokens – the price of a nice single reward – for this event’s relatively painless meta-achievement, but the fact that I am surprised that it happened.. is not good.

In any case, I’ve said this before. Less grind, more fun. You launched the game with that mantra – and since then, most every change has been a slow reversing of course. Ascended gear. Laurels. LS grindfests. Traits. Freaking kitten. I used to have so much good will for you guys.

That was a great post and largely reflects my views as well. So well said.