Betrayed by the gods of ANet
Farewell GW2
-The lack of chalange:Let’s see the current event the Gauntlet’s last boss Liadri the Concealing Dark:I think she made plenty of Neurons got destroyed from every player who tried her and many angry Alt+F4 or broken keyboards.
But she is actually not hard at all or hardcore gamecontent as many fans say.If you know the right pattern it’s pretty easy even with gambits.To be honest I spent over 200 ticket on her but I done her.
What I wish to point out the game can be hard for first,anything but if you get the knowledge you can manage to defeat any enemy without a single hit and I am not joking and I think many can approve this.I’m sorry to derail this a bit by nitpicking this one point, but this is a personal pet peeve of mine.
You spent two hundred tokens practicing Liadri and YOU CLAIM SHE WAS EASY?
Kitten. Man. Get some perspective. There are people who log fewer hours to learn how not to crash a helicopter. Of course everything gets easier with practice; that doesn’t mean it was always easy from the start.
I personally think the whole gauntlet was and remains a breath of fresh air. It’s exactly the kind of content we should be getting – and getting rewarded for finishing. What do we get, though, for Liadri? A mini and.. jack else. Heck, I wouldn’t be complaining about ascended if it was earned through a series of Liadri-style challenges instead of dull-kitten boring grind.
Yes,she IS easy but I was stupid to not read the guides on dulfy and other sites.Now I got how to fight her and how to ’’dance’’ with her and it’s easy peasy(I could been finish her in maximum 30-40 tokens if I start reading instead of noobing :-( ),in my opinion challenge means something kitten every try not just accomodate yourself to a standard.I really dislike this mechanic in MMORPGs like that pattern style…bosses should have casting animations or just instant hits(not instant kills)against you can prepare and anticipate and not fights like:Step1:Now Move left. Step2:Now move Right.Step3:Now attack.Step4:Now Dodge.I think Wildstar will be my game too,with living action not just patters.
Sub or no sub, cash shop or no cash shop. The beauty of GW2 is that if you quit, you can always come back. The account exists until you get banned, or request a termination. The only problem by leaving is that if you choose to come back, you’re further behind everyone else in terms of wealth.
Getting back to the cash shop discussion, a lot of complainers don’t understand that everything is optional. I know of people who never spent money beyond the initial box price, and are enjoying the game as much as big Gem buyer like myself. I can afford microtransactions, so I choose to spend on fluff. If Anet does something really great (i.e. Cantha), I spend more. My money goes to NCSoft, which I hope in turn goes back to Anet to develop more content.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
Sub or no sub, cash shop or no cash shop. The beauty of GW2 is that if you quit, you can always come back. The account exists until you get banned, or request a termination. The only problem by leaving is that if you choose to come back, you’re further behind everyone else in terms of wealth.
Getting back to the cash shop discussion, a lot of complainers don’t understand that everything is optional. I know of people who never spent money beyond the initial box price, and are enjoying the game as much as big Gem buyer like myself. I can afford microtransactions, so I choose to spend on fluff. If Anet does something really great (i.e. Cantha), I spend more. My money goes to NCSoft, which I hope in turn goes back to Anet to develop more content.
I think the cash shop works in theory, but in practice, seems like a lot of resources, and things that would be more satisfying in game, go to the cash shop.
When you look at it in the purest sense, depending on how you monetize, decides what you do, and cash shop models logical conclusion is to make as much content that sells as possible, while doing as little as possible to keep people interested in other ways.
The advantage of the sub model, is their goal is to keep you wanting to pay month after month. Their primary means of monetization, is to keep giving you things to do, and keep you wanting to log back in.
The advantage of the buy2p model is you get a complete product, their goal is not neccesarrily to keep you playing forever, but to make sure you have a really good experience so you will buy the next item.
.
right now, the flaw in the GW2 monetization plan, for me anyhow, is they arent giving me enough to keep me engaged, and the stuff they are bringing isnt really giving me a really good time.
touching on your optional part.
The problem for many players isnt that they cant get the items in the cash shop, its that they want meaty content, and things to do in game, and most of the new content they see is pretty shallow and in the gem store.
people are looking for reasons to play the game, there is very little carrot for playing the game in the GW2, but lot of carrot for gem store.
(edited by phys.7689)
I understand and feel the same way as the OP.
I think the cash shop works in theory, but in practice, seems like a lot of resources, and things that would be more satisfying in game, go to the cash shop.
When you look at it in the purest sense, depending on how you monetize, decides what you do, and cash shop models logical conclusion is to make as much content that sells as possible, while doing as little as possible to keep people interested in other ways.
The advantage of the sub model, is their goal is to keep you wanting to pay month after month. Their primary means of monetization, is to keep giving you things to do, and keep you wanting to log back in.
The advantage of the buy2p model is you get a complete product, their goal is not neccesarrily to keep you playing forever, but to make sure you have a really good experience so you will buy the next item.
.right now, the flaw in the GW2 monetization plan, for me anyhow, is they arent giving me enough to keep me engaged, and the stuff they are bringing isn’t really giving me a really good time.
Sad, but true. Short-sighted leadership is taking the game down a primrose path of “shiny objects” rather than content that sells the shiny objects. While I like (and bought) the latest little outfit thing, it has no context or meaning. Does it have to do with Festival of the Four Winds? It looks and feels like it’d be more appropriate for Dragon Bash.
Zodiac stuff was a WTF out of nowhere, too. I’m glad they have an eager costume design team, but this focus on vanity while we hear nothing about content is killing things. (Note: Living Story season 2 starts July 2nd. Let’s hope for the best!)
Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632
Sub or no sub, cash shop or no cash shop. The beauty of GW2 is that if you quit, you can always come back. The account exists until you get banned, or request a termination.
You and everyone else say this like it is unique to GW2. If I am playing WoW one month, and quit the next month, I can always come back to WoW and my account is there.
Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.
Sub or no sub, cash shop or no cash shop. The beauty of GW2 is that if you quit, you can always come back. The account exists until you get banned, or request a termination. The only problem by leaving is that if you choose to come back, you’re further behind everyone else in terms of wealth.
Getting back to the cash shop discussion, a lot of complainers don’t understand that everything is optional. I know of people who never spent money beyond the initial box price, and are enjoying the game as much as big Gem buyer like myself. I can afford microtransactions, so I choose to spend on fluff. If Anet does something really great (i.e. Cantha), I spend more. My money goes to NCSoft, which I hope in turn goes back to Anet to develop more content.
You leave… aaaaaand you missed stuff and story.
Hopefuly with the new permanent approach of season 2 will not be the case anymore.
One can only hope.
And that about spending in gems is true. I was about to buy gems to have a few more characters and more bank space (I’m an hoarder!! Dont judge me!!) but I got kittened with anet and I ended not buying anything.
Yes, I’m sitll kitten about missing parts of the story of season 1 and the derrail of the QD train.
I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.
There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.
I wish I could agree with you, but subs games are duplicitous too.
Usually a sub game or sub player offers a couple different justifications for the sub price – premium content or increased quantity of content, and inclusivity; ie that rewards are all included ‘in game’ for the sub price.
Neither of those is true nowadays.
Take WoW – a nine month hiatus on ‘content’ before the release of it’s Cataclysm expansion, and currently what is it – 8 months and on-going? before the release of it’s next. Subscription prices are ongoing during all of that time; you also don’t receive any kind of discount for the expansion prices for paying a sub for all those content-less months.
There’s no sub game that releases more content objectively than many of the f2p/b2p games out there. As for premium quality, that’s subjective but .. let’s just say that I’d lean towards content being of a relatively evenish quality between sub and f2p/b2p games.
As for inclusivity of content for the sub price – don’t make me laugh; sub games sell services and special items in their cash shops too. No such thing.
I’m not even going to get into the topic of how subscriptions can force a game to be designed with deliberate and meaningless timesinks.
So.. take it all together, and what do you get for your sub fee? Bupkiss aside of access, which most games – not even MMOs only! – include for free to their multiplayer.
The difference between a sub MMO and cash-shop MMO is not about which one has more contents. In a sub MMO, the focus is the design of attractive contents that satisfies the player’s demands (hardcore or casual) to keep those subscribers happy. In a cash-shop MMO is goal is to design contents around the cash-shop items and sell more gems. Both models work can work great IMO, but don’t have the same expectations from a cash-shop MMO compared to a sub.
The difference between a sub MMO and a B2P MMO is that the sub MMO only lets you roll for loot once a week. That’s how they make their moneyz.
Sub or no sub, cash shop or no cash shop. The beauty of GW2 is that if you quit, you can always come back. The account exists until you get banned, or request a termination.
You and everyone else say this like it is unique to GW2. If I am playing WoW one month, and quit the next month, I can always come back to WoW and my account is there.
Difference is, I’m not required to pay a monthly fee to keep playing, or restart playing.
In GW2, Trading Post plays you!
Sub or no sub, cash shop or no cash shop. The beauty of GW2 is that if you quit, you can always come back. The account exists until you get banned, or request a termination.
You and everyone else say this like it is unique to GW2. If I am playing WoW one month, and quit the next month, I can always come back to WoW and my account is there.
Difference is, I’m not required to pay a monthly fee to keep playing, or restart playing.
When you put it like that, you are correct. But many people simply say “you can quit and come back whenever you want”. Just like you can in any other game.
This is used as a common argument for GW2.
Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.
Sub or no sub, cash shop or no cash shop. The beauty of GW2 is that if you quit, you can always come back. The account exists until you get banned, or request a termination.
You and everyone else say this like it is unique to GW2. If I am playing WoW one month, and quit the next month, I can always come back to WoW and my account is there.
Difference is, I’m not required to pay a monthly fee to keep playing, or restart playing.
Yeah, I hate those “got to pay to log in” models. So glad GW2 didn’t go that route.
The difference between a sub MMO and cash-shop MMO is not about which one has more contents. In a sub MMO, the focus is the design of attractive contents that satisfies the player’s demands (hardcore or casual) to keep those subscribers happy. In a cash-shop MMO is goal is to design contents around the cash-shop items and sell more gems. Both models work can work great IMO, but don’t have the same expectations from a cash-shop MMO compared to a sub.
In my experience sub based MMOs expend no more effort to keep their subscribers happy than cash shop MMOs. They do however seem to spend a lot of effort on ways to slow those players down so that they will keep paying (not a typo, I meant paying not playing) longer.
I am not saying that cash shop is better, just that I have yet to see a sub based game that matched your description of that model.
Sub or no sub, cash shop or no cash shop. The beauty of GW2 is that if you quit, you can always come back. The account exists until you get banned, or request a termination.
You and everyone else say this like it is unique to GW2. If I am playing WoW one month, and quit the next month, I can always come back to WoW and my account is there.
Difference is, I’m not required to pay a monthly fee to keep playing, or restart playing.
Yeah, I hate those “got to pay to log in” models. So glad GW2 didn’t go that route.
Because youve gotten so much with no sub..oh wait. Yea a lot of it was temporary content, wasnt it? kitten it!
BTW, Im not against free to play games. I think GW2 did free to play well. I just dont agree with their dev direction.
Unless you have logged in during every LS patch and story arc for the last 1.5+ years, you missed out on a lot. Whereas in a sub game, you can see everything from every dungeon, to every raid, and zone and dallies, etc.
Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.
The difference between a sub MMO and cash-shop MMO is not about which one has more contents. In a sub MMO, the focus is the design of attractive contents that satisfies the player’s demands (hardcore or casual) to keep those subscribers happy. In a cash-shop MMO is goal is to design contents around the cash-shop items and sell more gems. Both models work can work great IMO, but don’t have the same expectations from a cash-shop MMO compared to a sub.
In my experience sub based MMOs expend no more effort to keep their subscribers happy than cash shop MMOs. They do however seem to spend a lot of effort on ways to slow those players down so that they will keep paying (not a typo, I meant paying not playing) longer.
I am not saying that cash shop is better, just that I have yet to see a sub based game that matched your description of that model.
I dont understand what youre saying. You say that sub based games spend effort to slow players down so they keep paying? Makes no sense.
Take the typical WoW argument. If I logged into WoW right now, I can see every bit of content from every patch 0-90 or whatever the level cap is now. I can see every single zone, and see every zone phased once I complete a zone story arc. I can participate in every dungeon that has been released, every raid that has been released. I can see every bit of every expansion if I wanted to. Its all there.
With GW2, Lets say I took the month of April off. One month. I miss out on SAB. Its not coming back until next year. Or, If I haven’t logged on in 6 months, i missed out on the Scarlet LS completion. Its done. I wont get to experience it, ever.
Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.
Because youve gotten so much with no sub..oh wait. Yea a lot of it was temporary content, wasnt it? kitten it!
BTW, Im not against free to play games. I think GW2 did free to play well. I just dont agree with their dev direction.
Unless you have logged in during every LS patch and story arc for the last 1.5+ years, you missed out on a lot. Whereas in a sub game, you can see everything from every dungeon, to every raid, and zone and dallies, etc.
To be absolutely fair, I don’t think that has much to do with the payment model. It’s just a very quirky design decision on Anet’s end. I won’t fault them for trying to differentiate themselves – heck, Gw2 is still one of the most ‘different’ games on the market nowadays, and that’s very laudable. Anything other than a continuing stream of wow clones.
Coulda worked out, too – but they made a few decisions which kinda resulted in unintended consequences for the player experience. It’s still possible to tweak it to be a very positive experience, but .. well. I mean, I’m with Missouri on this one: “Show Me”.
All depends on how much they took the CDI to heart.
Whereas in a sub game, you can see everything from every dungeon, to every raid, and zone and dallies, etc.
Except you’ll be doing it by yourself since the whole game is designed around the very last raid and everything else is irrelevant and obsolete.
I had a friend recently drop that “game that shall not be named” since with the weekly lockout + RNG it took 2 months to get 1 piece of gear – that’s $30 cash for one stinking piece of gear and you can’t buy it with ingame gold either.
(edited by Karizee.8076)
Except you’ll be doing it by yourself since the whole game is designed around the very last raid and everything else is irrelevant and obsolete.
I had a friend recently drop that “game that shall not be named” since with the weekly lockout + RNG it took 2 months to get 1 piece of gear – that’s $30 cash for one stinking piece of gear and you can’t buy it with ingame gold either.[/quote]
———————————————————————————————————————————————-
Be prepared for the Fan Boys coming in
telling you can’t have it then or if you don’t like it feel free to leave the game.
Whenever I see a thread like this, I think of a child desperately trying to get their parent’s attention by threatening to withdraw their love. It’s narcissistic, it’s indulgent. It’s boring. Every MMO in existence has a flood of these threads. GW1 certainly had them. At first I found them baffling. Now they’re just sad.
Of course there are problems with GW2. There are places it can be expanded or changed for the better. The forums are an appropriate place to have them brought to light, talked about and debated. But by framing it like this, as a spoiled rant threatening to leave unless someone listens to you, is the height of arrogance and self-absorption. And we’ve all seen many people who make these pronouncements in a month’s time still posting on the forums and still playing the game. Honestly I don’t think the OP’s intention is to improve the game but to indulge in their need to be recognized and heard. There are more constructive and less annoying ways to do that.
And the first thing I think of the way your post starts out is ad hominem attack. The original poster gave explicit reasons why he left. There were many things you could have argued he was wrong about. Yet you fall back on ad hominem ( brat, spoiled child, etc). In my 55 years I have yet to see insult passed off as argument.
I was not making an ad hominem attack. If you read my second paragraph I acknowledge GW2 can use improvement. In some ways, a lot of improvement. Ad hominem means you’re trying to invalidate the person’s argument by attacking them personally, but I actually agree with many of the points the OP made. I’m saying that the OP doesn’t care about improving the game, that’s not what “I’m quitting” threads are about. They’re about getting attention and are absolutely self-indulgent. I object to framing an argument in such a counterproductive way. It hurts your argument and annoys people who might otherwise agree with you. (Also I never used the word brat, but thanks for putting words into my mouth). I’m not engaging in the argument precisely because of the way it’s framed, I’m sick of “I quit” threads.
If you are upset about something then advance an argument. Don’t argue by beginning with a threat.
Not sure if you read the entire post. The OP delivers a very clear message that he wants to be a fan of the game – but he just can’t due to many critical flaws that the game has and Arenanet’s lack of effort to try and rectify those problems. The points are well-stated and it’s childish to just ignore them and attack the OP personally.
I’m sure many of us coming from the original Guild Wars are able to relate to this.
(edited by soapingwet.4810)
I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.
There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.
I wish I could agree with you, but subs games are duplicitous too.
Usually a sub game or sub player offers a couple different justifications for the sub price – premium content or increased quantity of content, and inclusivity; ie that rewards are all included ‘in game’ for the sub price.
Neither of those is true nowadays.
Take WoW – a nine month hiatus on ‘content’ before the release of it’s Cataclysm expansion, and currently what is it – 8 months and on-going? before the release of it’s next. Subscription prices are ongoing during all of that time; you also don’t receive any kind of discount for the expansion prices for paying a sub for all those content-less months.
There’s no sub game that releases more content objectively than many of the f2p/b2p games out there. As for premium quality, that’s subjective but .. let’s just say that I’d lean towards content being of a relatively evenish quality between sub and f2p/b2p games.
As for inclusivity of content for the sub price – don’t make me laugh; sub games sell services and special items in their cash shops too. No such thing.
I’m not even going to get into the topic of how subscriptions can force a game to be designed with deliberate and meaningless timesinks.
So.. take it all together, and what do you get for your sub fee? Bupkiss aside of access, which most games – not even MMOs only! – include for free to their multiplayer.
The difference between a sub MMO and cash-shop MMO is not about which one has more contents. In a sub MMO, the focus is the design of attractive contents that satisfies the player’s demands (hardcore or casual) to keep those subscribers happy. In a cash-shop MMO is goal is to design contents around the cash-shop items and sell more gems. Both models work can work great IMO, but don’t have the same expectations from a cash-shop MMO compared to a sub.
The difference between a sub MMO and a B2P MMO is that the sub MMO only lets you roll for loot once a week. That’s how they make their moneyz.
…And B2P MMO such as GW2 doesn’t have any loot or time restrictions?
Betrayed by the gods of ANet
I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.
There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.
I wish I could agree with you, but subs games are duplicitous too.
Usually a sub game or sub player offers a couple different justifications for the sub price – premium content or increased quantity of content, and inclusivity; ie that rewards are all included ‘in game’ for the sub price.
Neither of those is true nowadays.
Take WoW – a nine month hiatus on ‘content’ before the release of it’s Cataclysm expansion, and currently what is it – 8 months and on-going? before the release of it’s next. Subscription prices are ongoing during all of that time; you also don’t receive any kind of discount for the expansion prices for paying a sub for all those content-less months.
There’s no sub game that releases more content objectively than many of the f2p/b2p games out there. As for premium quality, that’s subjective but .. let’s just say that I’d lean towards content being of a relatively evenish quality between sub and f2p/b2p games.
As for inclusivity of content for the sub price – don’t make me laugh; sub games sell services and special items in their cash shops too. No such thing.
I’m not even going to get into the topic of how subscriptions can force a game to be designed with deliberate and meaningless timesinks.
So.. take it all together, and what do you get for your sub fee? Bupkiss aside of access, which most games – not even MMOs only! – include for free to their multiplayer.
The difference between a sub MMO and cash-shop MMO is not about which one has more contents. In a sub MMO, the focus is the design of attractive contents that satisfies the player’s demands (hardcore or casual) to keep those subscribers happy. In a cash-shop MMO is goal is to design contents around the cash-shop items and sell more gems. Both models work can work great IMO, but don’t have the same expectations from a cash-shop MMO compared to a sub.
The difference between a sub MMO and a B2P MMO is that the sub MMO only lets you roll for loot once a week. That’s how they make their moneyz.
…And B2P MMO such as GW2 doesn’t have any loot or time restrictions?
Not nearly as obnoxious as the weekly lockouts that sub games employ. Weekly lockouts to get a chance at your loot dropping, then another chance on top of that maybe you’ll win the loot roll. If someone doesn’t ninja it of course.
On the issue of sub vs. cash-shop: There’s nothing inherently flawed with a cash-shop payment model. It becomes a problem when new content developed is just a poorly disguised means of getting people to use the cash-shop or is simply exclusive to the cash-shop. It’s become apparent that the development decisions made about GW2 recently are made with the cash-shop as a priority well above fun, polish, story, balance etc.
(edited by NewTrain.7549)
first time i see a wall of text composed of q’s
Level 60 pvp
Ele & thief main (full ascended)
Down with the braindead faceroll classes.
Ele & thief main (full ascended)
Down with the braindead faceroll classes.
Sort of agree with above, with the game’s main source of revenue being from the gem store, actual content creation has taken a turn for the worst…
I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.
There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.
I wish I could agree with you, but subs games are duplicitous too.
Usually a sub game or sub player offers a couple different justifications for the sub price – premium content or increased quantity of content, and inclusivity; ie that rewards are all included ‘in game’ for the sub price.
Neither of those is true nowadays.
Take WoW – a nine month hiatus on ‘content’ before the release of it’s Cataclysm expansion, and currently what is it – 8 months and on-going? before the release of it’s next. Subscription prices are ongoing during all of that time; you also don’t receive any kind of discount for the expansion prices for paying a sub for all those content-less months.
There’s no sub game that releases more content objectively than many of the f2p/b2p games out there. As for premium quality, that’s subjective but .. let’s just say that I’d lean towards content being of a relatively evenish quality between sub and f2p/b2p games.
As for inclusivity of content for the sub price – don’t make me laugh; sub games sell services and special items in their cash shops too. No such thing.
I’m not even going to get into the topic of how subscriptions can force a game to be designed with deliberate and meaningless timesinks.
So.. take it all together, and what do you get for your sub fee? Bupkiss aside of access, which most games – not even MMOs only! – include for free to their multiplayer.
The difference between a sub MMO and cash-shop MMO is not about which one has more contents. In a sub MMO, the focus is the design of attractive contents that satisfies the player’s demands (hardcore or casual) to keep those subscribers happy. In a cash-shop MMO is goal is to design contents around the cash-shop items and sell more gems. Both models work can work great IMO, but don’t have the same expectations from a cash-shop MMO compared to a sub.
The difference between a sub MMO and a B2P MMO is that the sub MMO only lets you roll for loot once a week. That’s how they make their moneyz.
…And B2P MMO such as GW2 doesn’t have any loot or time restrictions?
Not nearly as obnoxious as the weekly lockouts that sub games employ. Weekly lockouts to get a chance at your loot dropping, then another chance on top of that maybe you’ll win the loot roll. If someone doesn’t ninja it of course.
Meanwhile in FFXIV: Child lalafell:“daddy what are those other games arguing about?” adult lalafell:“things that do not concern us son for we do not have any of these problems”
and for people who dont know FFXIV is a sub game so yeah…….saying that all sub games get it wrong is not true……..
No! There’s no other Ayanami but you!
That’s why I will save you!
That’s why I will save you!
The difference between a sub MMO and cash-shop MMO is not about which one has more contents. In a sub MMO, the focus is the design of attractive contents that satisfies the player’s demands (hardcore or casual) to keep those subscribers happy. In a cash-shop MMO is goal is to design contents around the cash-shop items and sell more gems. Both models work can work great IMO, but don’t have the same expectations from a cash-shop MMO compared to a sub.
In my experience sub based MMOs expend no more effort to keep their subscribers happy than cash shop MMOs. They do however seem to spend a lot of effort on ways to slow those players down so that they will keep paying (not a typo, I meant paying not playing) longer.
I am not saying that cash shop is better, just that I have yet to see a sub based game that matched your description of that model.
I dont understand what youre saying. You say that sub based games spend effort to slow players down so they keep paying? Makes no sense.
Take the typical WoW argument. If I logged into WoW right now, I can see every bit of content from every patch 0-90 or whatever the level cap is now. I can see every single zone, and see every zone phased once I complete a zone story arc. I can participate in every dungeon that has been released, every raid that has been released. I can see every bit of every expansion if I wanted to. Its all there.
With GW2, Lets say I took the month of April off. One month. I miss out on SAB. Its not coming back until next year. Or, If I haven’t logged on in 6 months, i missed out on the Scarlet LS completion. Its done. I wont get to experience it, ever.
You’re not talking about the same thing. You’re comparing permanent to temporary content. Ashen (and I) are saying that the content the sub “pays for” is no better than the “free” content GW2 offers. That huge mass of content you’re talking about as being available in WoW consists mostly of the original box, and the expansions — which have their own price tags. The sub fee, in addition to being a fee to log in, funds temporary seasonal festivals or events and some relatively small percentage of the dungeons and raids.
As to slowing players down, all MMO’s — including sub games — do that. I’m sorry that it makes no sense to you that a company whose ongoing income is the payment of a rental fee to access the game would have any interest in slowing the attainment of goals to keep people paying longer.
honestly, at this point, I am using the time I would have been putting into GW2 into a second job to get a new PC and PS4 for Destiny, The Division, and ArcheAge. I will definitely still have GW2 installed and play it, but not very much. I enjoy the graphics and gameplay for the most part, but the world, though they tried so hard, is missing so many “little things” that it feels pointless and static; wide, but shallow.
“But its not a game breaking experiencing killing issue.” That completely depends on your game-play.
In most MMO’s the way I played was usually driven by chasing down rewards or items in the game. Being it while crafting and hunting down recipes or items I needed, or hunting down mini’s or mounts and so on.That has simply been removed from GW2 and turned into a gold-grind to benefit the cash-shop.
So yes it can very well be a “game breaking experiencing killing issue.”
“Things like dev direction, mechanics, etc…those are gameplay breaking.” Yeah and those get influenced by the way a game gets monetized. Is the question “how do we get people to buy gems” then you implement other mechanics and take another direction then if the question is “how do we get people to buy out next expansion”. Living world being a perfect example of a direction that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus.
Would they focus on releasing a new expansion every year then you would likely already have seen new maps with new DE and new dungeons and have a better overall game because a game-play element as hunting down items in the game would be there. In addition you might be able to visit a barber to cut your hair instead of grinding gold to change the hair. (I don’t count buying gems as game-play).
After there released they suddenly went completely cash-shop. That became apparent about half a year in. There where some negatives at launch already (like all mini’s being in the cash-shop) but most where not extremely bad or where not noticeable (I for example did expect there where also mini’s in the game itself) but then after about half a year things really started to take a turn for the worse.
So most of the thinks you talk about may very well be linked to that cash-shop focus.
I am not waiting for GW3. That was in reaction to another person talking about GW3.
And no GW3 would sell way less. That was my point.If what you say is true then the game teeters on pay to win and I dont think anyone would agree with that assessment.
The fact that they push ads in your face to purchase from the gemstore has no bearing on whether or not you’ll enjoy killing a baddy in a dungeon or wasting your time in LS. The fact that theres a new dress to buy in the gem store has no impact on your fun in WvW.
Now, if youre talking baout the gem to gold conversion, thats slightly different but still very much debatable. When I played, I acquired tons of materials from efficient farming routes and spots. I just played the game, very boring because of the grindy nature, but I was able to accumlate a ton of materials without dropping a dime into gem to gold conversion to purchase off of the TP. I stopped playing seriously about 5 months ago, for half year prior to that I played on and off, amassing maybe 1100 hours. So in 2 years, 1100 hours is pretty average for someone that bought the game at launch. I didnt play 24/7. Its not hard to accumulate what you need, aside from precursors.
For you maybe it doesn’t for other it does. An item in the cash-shop is not in the world and it devalues the items that are in the world. So if you like to hunt them down you take away that content. If it’s P2W also depends on your goals, if you go for cosmetics then I guess you could consider it P2W but if you go for kills then it’s less the case.
And like you say “When I played, I acquired tons of materials from efficient farming routes and spots. I just played the game, very boring because of the grindy nature,” The cash-shop helps to create that grold-grind and like you say that is boring. So it effects the game in many negative ways.
I agree. This is why I would prefer a sub. Paying those 15 bucks a month and being sure that the devs are working to make the game better and fun, instead of creating the next bunny ears in the cash shop. If the game is poor, I simply stop paying.
There used to be some great MMO’s with subs. Not one of those games was working against you. Because that’s how I feel about GW2. I’m playing against the game and not the content.
I wish I could agree with you, but subs games are duplicitous too.
Usually a sub game or sub player offers a couple different justifications for the sub price – premium content or increased quantity of content, and inclusivity; ie that rewards are all included ‘in game’ for the sub price.
Neither of those is true nowadays.
Take WoW – a nine month hiatus on ‘content’ before the release of it’s Cataclysm expansion, and currently what is it – 8 months and on-going? before the release of it’s next. Subscription prices are ongoing during all of that time; you also don’t receive any kind of discount for the expansion prices for paying a sub for all those content-less months.
There’s no sub game that releases more content objectively than many of the f2p/b2p games out there. As for premium quality, that’s subjective but .. let’s just say that I’d lean towards content being of a relatively evenish quality between sub and f2p/b2p games.
As for inclusivity of content for the sub price – don’t make me laugh; sub games sell services and special items in their cash shops too. No such thing.
I’m not even going to get into the topic of how subscriptions can force a game to be designed with deliberate and meaningless timesinks.
So.. take it all together, and what do you get for your sub fee? Bupkiss aside of access, which most games – not even MMOs only! – include for free to their multiplayer.
The difference between a sub MMO and cash-shop MMO is not about which one has more contents. In a sub MMO, the focus is the design of attractive contents that satisfies the player’s demands (hardcore or casual) to keep those subscribers happy. In a cash-shop MMO is goal is to design contents around the cash-shop items and sell more gems. Both models work can work great IMO, but don’t have the same expectations from a cash-shop MMO compared to a sub.
But the people playing GW2 did not go for a cash-shop game they went for a B2P game but got an cash-shop game.
While I would still dislike it I would expect this from a F2P game and so would not be complaining about it on the forums. Just maybe suggest they use another model in the beta forums but thats about it.
-The lack of chalange:Let’s see the current event the Gauntlet’s last boss Liadri the Concealing Dark:I think she made plenty of Neurons got destroyed from every player who tried her and many angry Alt+F4 or broken keyboards.
But she is actually not hard at all or hardcore gamecontent as many fans say.If you know the right pattern it’s pretty easy even with gambits.To be honest I spent over 200 ticket on her but I done her.
What I wish to point out the game can be hard for first,anything but if you get the knowledge you can manage to defeat any enemy without a single hit and I am not joking and I think many can approve this.I’m sorry to derail this a bit by nitpicking this one point, but this is a personal pet peeve of mine.
You spent two hundred tokens practicing Liadri and YOU CLAIM SHE WAS EASY?
Kitten. Man. Get some perspective. There are people who log fewer hours to learn how not to crash a helicopter. Of course everything gets easier with practice; that doesn’t mean it was always easy from the start.
I personally think the whole gauntlet was and remains a breath of fresh air. It’s exactly the kind of content we should be getting – and getting rewarded for finishing. What do we get, though, for Liadri? A mini and.. jack else. Heck, I wouldn’t be complaining about ascended if it was earned through a series of Liadri-style challenges instead of dull-kitten boring grind.
Yes,she IS easy but I was stupid to not read the guides on dulfy and other sites.Now I got how to fight her and how to ’’dance’’ with her and it’s easy peasy(I could been finish her in maximum 30-40 tokens if I start reading instead of noobing :-( ),in my opinion challenge means something kitten every try not just accomodate yourself to a standard.I really dislike this mechanic in MMORPGs like that pattern style…bosses should have casting animations or just instant hits(not instant kills)against you can prepare and anticipate and not fights like:Step1:Now Move left. Step2:Now move Right.Step3:Now attack.Step4:Now Dodge.I think Wildstar will be my game too,with living action not just patters.
More randomness in AI is indeed good and something I suggested before. BTW what I have seen from Wildstar it will have the same, maybe even worse as you are not fighting the boss but the telegraphs.
Sub or no sub, cash shop or no cash shop. The beauty of GW2 is that if you quit, you can always come back. The account exists until you get banned, or request a termination. The only problem by leaving is that if you choose to come back, you’re further behind everyone else in terms of wealth.
Getting back to the cash shop discussion, a lot of complainers don’t understand that everything is optional. I know of people who never spent money beyond the initial box price, and are enjoying the game as much as big Gem buyer like myself. I can afford microtransactions, so I choose to spend on fluff. If Anet does something really great (i.e. Cantha), I spend more. My money goes to NCSoft, which I hope in turn goes back to Anet to develop more content.
It’s a game everything is optional that does not make it right.
BTW it’s funny how you say you want to support them and so buy gems. I want to support them and so will not buy gems. Now if they would release a good expansions I would buy it and maybe even the CE (that maybe was for sure like a year ago but I sort of lost my trust a little, will depend on the expansion and there story how they continue).
And again, if it effects you completely depends on your play-style. The cash-shop focus did take elements from the game and did turn the game into a gold-grind. I don’t think that are positives but maybe some people are fine with that.
As this thread has drifted off topic for these forums, it is now closed.