"Farming" events...
Those who are farmers wonder why people on these forums have trouble with them.
I don’t really wonder, I know. Its because some people judge a group by the behavior of a minority within that group. I know someone who plays computer games, including GW2, and who uses illegal drugs. So gamers, especially GW2 players, are drug addicts right ?
I was a farmer, and would never abuse another for playing the game. I might very well farm an event if it was available to be farmed, but if someone came along with the intention of completing it I would help them or just move on.
But a tiny fraction of farmer’s are rude, so many people felt justified in abusing farmers, and farming, in general. It says more about those casting aspersions than it does about those playing the game.
OP, you were treated inappropriately, not by farmers, but by rude people who happened to be farming when you encountered them. I hope you have better luck with people in game going forward.
Those who are farmers wonder why people on these forums have trouble with them.
I don’t really wonder, I know. Its because some people judge a group by the behavior of a minority within that group. I know someone who plays computer games, including GW2, and who uses illegal drugs. So gamers, especially GW2 players, are drug addicts right ?
I was a farmer, and would never abuse another for playing the game. I might very well farm an event if it was available to be farmed, but if someone came along with the intention of completing it I would help them or just move on.
But a tiny fraction of farmer’s are rude, so many people felt justified in abusing farmers, and farming, in general. It says more about those casting aspersions than it does about those playing the game.
OP, you were treated inappropriately, not by farmers, but by rude people who happened to be farming when you encountered them. I hope you have better luck with people in game going forward.
Is exactly right, but no doubt this will become an anti farmers/anti farming thread.
(edited by Fenrir.3609)
Abusive text should not and is not tolerated. Report anyone who is disrespectful to you in this manner.
That being said, I see nothing wrong with the farmers in your 1st example. If they want to sit at the cache in Vexx’s lab and just kill pirates they have that right. They’re also doing you no harm by asking you not to complete the event. Now if you want to ignore them and do it anyway that’s fine but if them simply asking you to not do it offends you then that’s a ’you’ problem.
Everyone has a right to play the game the way they want, that includes farmers too.
Kayku
[CDS] Caedas
Sanctum of Rall
[CDS] Caedas
Sanctum of Rall
Abusive text should not and is not tolerated. Report anyone who is disrespectful to you in this manner.
That being said, I see nothing wrong with the farmers in your 1st example. If they want to sit at the cache in Vexx’s lab and just kill pirates they have that right. They’re also doing you no harm by asking you not to complete the event. Now if you want to ignore them and do it anyway that’s fine but if them simply asking you to not do it offends you then that’s a ‘you’ problem.
Everyone has a right to play the game the way they want, that includes farmers too.
It sort of depends on HOW they asked.
As Vayne said, screen it, report, block and move on. Dont waste your breath on that kind of people.
This game is there for you to enjoy. Dont let fools ruin it for you.
Those who are farmers wonder why people on these forums have trouble with them.
I don’t really wonder, I know. Its because some people judge a group by the behavior of a minority within that group. I know someone who plays computer games, including GW2, and who uses illegal drugs. So gamers, especially GW2 players, are drug addicts right ?
I was a farmer, and would never abuse another for playing the game. I might very well farm an event if it was available to be farmed, but if someone came along with the intention of completing it I would help them or just move on.
But a tiny fraction of farmer’s are rude, so many people felt justified in abusing farmers, and farming, in general. It says more about those casting aspersions than it does about those playing the game.
OP, you were treated inappropriately, not by farmers, but by rude people who happened to be farming when you encountered them. I hope you have better luck with people in game going forward.
Is exactly right, but no doubt this will become an anti farmers/anti farming thread.
I really hope this thread doesn’t become an anti-farming thread. I think most farmers are quite okay. They’re doing what they enjoy.
It’s a shame a few people have to make it look like all farmers are inconsiderate.
I don’t really wonder, I know. Its because some people judge a group by the behavior of a minority within that group.
Not really. It’s because farmers make the game worse for everyone else.
Even ignoring the economic impact farmers have, the fact is that farmers allow MMO developers to make mediocre content that said developers know will sell. That’s because farmers don’t need fun content, they are happy playing mediocre content as long as they get a shiny reward in the end.
For everyone else, who would actually like to have a good game… Well, those players are told to find something else to play, MMOs are for grinders only. Until the grinders go find the next MMO to grind, leaving behind an empty game devoured by locusts.
I think most farmers are quite okay. They’re doing what they enjoy.
I wonder if a Skinner rat actually enjoys the action of pressing its little lever.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
I don’t really wonder, I know. Its because some people judge a group by the behavior of a minority within that group.
Not really. It’s because farmers make the game worse for everyone else.
Even ignoring the economic impact farmers have, the fact is that farmers allow MMO developers to make mediocre content that said developers know will sell. That’s because farmers don’t need fun content, they are happy playing mediocre content as long as they get a shiny reward in the end.
For everyone else, who would actually like to have a good game… Well, those players are told to find something else to play, MMOs are for grinders only. Until the grinders go find the next MMO to grind, leaving behind an empty game devoured by locusts.
I think most farmers are quite okay. They’re doing what they enjoy.
I wonder if a Skinner rat actually enjoys the action of pressing its little lever.
Idk how to respond to this. Your unbiased opinion and generalizing have left me at a standstill in ways of replying.
10/10, you should become a lawyer with all that brainpower and strong argumentative skills
I don’t really wonder, I know. Its because some people judge a group by the behavior of a minority within that group.
Not really. It’s because farmers make the game worse for everyone else.
Even ignoring the economic impact farmers have, the fact is that farmers allow MMO developers to make mediocre content that said developers know will sell. That’s because farmers don’t need fun content, they are happy playing mediocre content as long as they get a shiny reward in the end.
For everyone else, who would actually like to have a good game… Well, those players are told to find something else to play, MMOs are for grinders only. Until the grinders go find the next MMO to grind, leaving behind an empty game devoured by locusts.
I think most farmers are quite okay. They’re doing what they enjoy.
I wonder if a Skinner rat actually enjoys the action of pressing its little lever.
I have a comment for you:
I am one of these guys that buy a game and play it as I see fit. That’s what I payed for and it is my right to play it anyway i like it. HOWEVER, since you play this game with other people, it is polite to help them or at least not bother them. So normally i do that; it is what goes around, comes around; I revive dead players (since I like them to do the same to me) and join fights . Still, when it does not fit me, I play my own game, that’s where i payed for and that is OK, too. So when I am in dire need of some farming stuff, I go for that and not for something else.
The only bad choice here is abusive language: that is never correct…
I don’t really wonder, I know. Its because some people judge a group by the behavior of a minority within that group.
Not really. It’s because farmers make the game worse for everyone else.
Even ignoring the economic impact farmers have, the fact is that farmers allow MMO developers to make mediocre content that said developers know will sell. That’s because farmers don’t need fun content, they are happy playing mediocre content as long as they get a shiny reward in the end.
For everyone else, who would actually like to have a good game… Well, those players are told to find something else to play, MMOs are for grinders only. Until the grinders go find the next MMO to grind, leaving behind an empty game devoured by locusts.
I think most farmers are quite okay. They’re doing what they enjoy.
I wonder if a Skinner rat actually enjoys the action of pressing its little lever.
Actually, farmers and grinders are told to play another game other than GW2. With the amount of anti-farming DR/fixes placed in this game, you wonder what farmers are still doing here.
The Skinner rat does enjoy it, not the action but the fact that the action will yield a result – food. So what? How pretentious of you to presume that your way of fun is “better” or more justifiable than theirs. So long as they don’t intrude or impede another player’s gameplay (like those rude farmers above), they’re alright.
Don’t disturb me, I have a cat in me at the moment.
Not really. It’s because farmers make the game worse for everyone else.
Even ignoring the economic impact farmers have, the fact is that farmers allow MMO developers to make mediocre content that said developers know will sell. That’s because farmers don’t need fun content, they are happy playing mediocre content as long as they get a shiny reward in the end.
Actually farmers make the game better for everyone else..
The fact is that farmers allow developers to make excellent content by paying to play the game in between content additions.
Sarcastic demonstration that I can pull facts out of my kitten as well as you can, fun is subjective. Your entire position falls apart because you do not get to define what is fun for everyone else.
Lol. They should just kitten. I was also there… there is a pretty long timer after you complete the Vexa’s Lab… like 10 minutes or so. A few runs and you can get the 50 Aetherblades needed for the achievement… It’s not that you only can kill 3 every time until you get ported out.
2 or 3 times from the beginning until the 10 minuts are over and you get ported out should totally be enough.. if they don’t want it they can just look for holo projectors.
These are the people who give farmers bad names. Some people think they own the game. They don’t. Do what you want. If they’re abusive, take screen shots and report them.
Those who are farmers wonder why people on these forums have trouble with them. While it’s true most farmers are nice and friendly and not like that, there is a small, visible, very annoying group of farmers who don’t care who’s game they ruin as long as they get their loot (or in this case achievement).
Woah, Vayne pulled a 180!
My $0.02 cents, but ANET needs to bring back the “old” Cursed Shore vents. Fact is people want a constant stream of enemies to fight, and that is why people would farm tunnel when the events chained off of each other. If people were farming normal events more, they wouldn’t be so desperate to camp the JP.
These are the people who give farmers bad names. Some people think they own the game. They don’t. Do what you want. If they’re abusive, take screen shots and report them.
Those who are farmers wonder why people on these forums have trouble with them. While it’s true most farmers are nice and friendly and not like that, there is a small, visible, very annoying group of farmers who don’t care who’s game they ruin as long as they get their loot (or in this case achievement).
Woah, Vayne pulled a 180!
My $0.02 cents, but ANET needs to bring back the “old” Cursed Shore vents. Fact is people want a constant stream of enemies to fight, and that is why people would farm tunnel when the events chained off of each other. If people were farming normal events more, they wouldn’t be so desperate to camp the JP.
I haven’t pulled a 180. I don’t really think this game is ideal for farmers and never have. But I don’t, and never have, had a personal objection to farmers.
Farmers largely aren’t happy with the game, because of several design decisions made by Anet. Those design decisions don’t affect those who play like me, leading me to believe that Anet designed the game pretty much to be played, at least in one way, the way I play it. If you read the literature, it sure seems like they designed a game to be played the way I want to.
Not to say there are other people who don’t play differently, who enjoy the game the way they play it…but farmers largely don’t seem to be satisfied…so they complain.
I don’t think their complaints aren’t warranted. I’m sure I’d complain if I were a farmer too. I just don’t think Anet really had farming in mind when they designed Guild Wars 2.
They may, however, make changes to make it better for farmers in the future.
These are the people who give farmers bad names. Some people think they own the game. They don’t. Do what you want. If they’re abusive, take screen shots and report them.
Those who are farmers wonder why people on these forums have trouble with them. While it’s true most farmers are nice and friendly and not like that, there is a small, visible, very annoying group of farmers who don’t care who’s game they ruin as long as they get their loot (or in this case achievement).
Woah, Vayne pulled a 180!
My $0.02 cents, but ANET needs to bring back the “old” Cursed Shore vents. Fact is people want a constant stream of enemies to fight, and that is why people would farm tunnel when the events chained off of each other. If people were farming normal events more, they wouldn’t be so desperate to camp the JP.
wait, how did he pull a 180? :p
Don’t disturb me, I have a cat in me at the moment.
These are the people who give farmers bad names. Some people think they own the game. They don’t. Do what you want. If they’re abusive, take screen shots and report them.
Those who are farmers wonder why people on these forums have trouble with them. While it’s true most farmers are nice and friendly and not like that, there is a small, visible, very annoying group of farmers who don’t care who’s game they ruin as long as they get their loot (or in this case achievement).
Woah, Vayne pulled a 180!
My $0.02 cents, but ANET needs to bring back the “old” Cursed Shore vents. Fact is people want a constant stream of enemies to fight, and that is why people would farm tunnel when the events chained off of each other. If people were farming normal events more, they wouldn’t be so desperate to camp the JP.
wait, how did he pull a 180? :p
He’s probably talking about my examples of how farming ruined my initial experiences of Orr (which it basically did). But that has less to do with farmers and more to do with game design. I was saying I liked Orr better now than I did when farmers were there doing their thing.
Vayne you are a celebrity. Can I has your autograph?
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
Vayne you are a celebrity. Can I has your autograph?
Would you believe I’ve signed autographs in real life at a convention? lol
Vayne you are a celebrity. Can I has your autograph?
Would you believe I’ve signed autographs in real life at a convention? lol
Screenshot or it never happened!
And, cool!
Fire up the Hyperbowl ma, we’re going to town!
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
Vayne you are a celebrity. Can I has your autograph?
Would you believe I’ve signed autographs in real life at a convention? lol
Screenshot or it never happened!
And, cool!
I have photos actually. It was at the World Science Fiction Convention in Chicago in 2000. Back before I realized I didn’t actually have a writing career. lol
. So what? How pretentious of you to presume that your way of fun is “better” or more justifiable than theirs. So long as they don’t intrude or impede another player’s gameplay (like those rude farmers above), they’re alright.
Because it is better. Grinding is a mix between a Skinner rat pressing its lever and a donkey being told where to go by having a carrot dangling in front of its face. Human beings should know better.
It’s the real life equivalent of demanding to be paid in order to go to the movies, and then watching every single mediocre movie out there just to get paid.
The concept that they don’t intrude in your gameplay is a farce. Using the same example above, if people watched any movie in order to get paid, why bother trying to make a good movie if people would watch anything? It’s the same with grinding. Grinders, farmers, addicts and exploiters don’t care about fun content, they are going to grind anyway; so why would a MMORPG developer even bother with fun content, when it’s not needed to get millions of players in their games?
Sarcastic demonstration that I can pull facts out of my kitten as well as you can, fun is subjective. Your entire position falls apart because you do not get to define what is fun for everyone else.
With the main difference being that I am right and you are wrong. Farming and grinding (and exploiting, which is nearly the same thing) are not about having fun. They are about enduring content in order to receive the satisfaction of getting a reward in the end, more often than not by going through mediocre content.
MMO developers know about this. They don’t have to work to make their games fun (which is incredibly hard, considering how fun is subjective) since they know there is a large contingent of players who are addicted to grind and will do it as long as there is a big reward waiting for them. The result is what the MMORPG genre has been ever since it became popular – mediocre games swimming in cesspools of bad content with relatively large followings.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
Vayne you are a celebrity. Can I has your autograph?
Would you believe I’ve signed autographs in real life at a convention? lol
Screenshot or it never happened!
And, cool!
I have photos actually. It was at the World Science Fiction Convention in Chicago in 2000. Back before I realized I didn’t actually have a writing career. lol
Sounds like more of a writing career than most people get. Nice one.
Fire up the Hyperbowl ma, we’re going to town!
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
Anet nerfed drops, this type of farming will get worse and worse. Anyone remember the anti-farm code in gw1? http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Anti-farm_code Lol it will happen here too. Personally, if people want to spend their life chasing imaginary items, go for it. Seems pretty sad to me..
(edited by Evon Skyfyre.9673)
Well those people are mean. I mean I needed the pirates for the achievement too. I was angry with the amount that is needed and how limited their spawns are. I did not stop people from completing events. You know what happens when someone completes Vexx’s lab? You run in there, grab the big chest, get teleported out, re-do the events (takes what? 3 minutes?) and stand comfortably in front of the pirate spawning point again. I needed to re-get there 3 times. Oh well. Never did I once get angry with the people doing the event. I was angry with the limited spawn points for the pirates.
Because it is better. Grinding is a mix between a Skinner rat pressing its lever and a donkey being told where to go by having a carrot dangling in front of its face. Human beings should know better.
And what precisely is wrong with that? We encounter all of these operant conditioning techniques in everyday life. Want a good job? → “grind” out your schooling to get good grades. Want a raise? → “grind” out at doing your job. Is it the best form of attaining something? Maybe not. But that’s how the world works. Inasmuch as we would all love to be Socrates and enjoy the journey than the destination, that doesn’t always happen, and real life hardly rewards people for that.
It’s the real life equivalent of demanding to be paid in order to go to the movies, and then watching every single mediocre movie out there just to get paid.
The concept that they don’t intrude in your gameplay is a farce. Using the same example above, if people watched any movie in order to get paid, why bother trying to make a good movie if people would watch anything? It’s the same with grinding. Grinders, farmers, addicts and exploiters don’t care about fun content, they are going to grind anyway; so why would a MMORPG developer even bother with fun content, when it’s not needed to get millions of players in their games?
There are games made for grinders (see Korean MMOs), and games made for a different group of players. But realize that not all MMO players are grinders, and some people actually enjoy fun content. And even grinding itself is not bad. The point being is that while I admire GW2’s gusto in trying to capture a large market, in the end it’ll go back to still being a niche game.
With the main difference being that I am right and you are wrong. Farming and grinding (and exploiting, which is nearly the same thing) are not about having fun. They are about enduring content in order to receive the satisfaction of getting a reward in the end, more often than not by going through mediocre content.
Er… no. Your concept of “fun” relies heavily on the premise that it should be immediate gratification. You want “fun” stuff as you get it, while you do it. You want to have “fun” WHILE you’re doing activity X. So if activity X isn’t fun, the entire gameplay experience is no longer “fun”.
What you fail to realize is that some people get their “fun” from delayed gratification. Some people purposely delay their gratification because the enjoyment is much sweeter the longer the wait. This concept might be foreign to you, but it certainly is something not new, especially to game developers. So no, you’re wrong to assume that a particular playstyle is not “fun”.
MMO developers know about this. They don’t have to work to make their games fun (which is incredibly hard, considering how fun is subjective) since they know there is a large contingent of players who are addicted to grind and will do it as long as there is a big reward waiting for them. The result is what the MMORPG genre has been ever since it became popular – mediocre games swimming in cesspools of bad content with relatively large followings.
Except, you know, GW2, that tries its best to deliver fun content to attract and retain their playerbase. (and I’m pretty sure gw2 isn’t alone in trying out new things, new gimmicks and stuff, no longer relying on the traditional MMO framework)
Don’t disturb me, I have a cat in me at the moment.
I’d just tell them to leave because they are spoiling my event, then report them, /ignore them, and do my thing, if they behaved that way. In a MMO you have lots of tools to handle harassing people.
What you fail to realize is that some people get their “fun” from delayed gratification. Some people purposely delay their gratification because the enjoyment is much sweeter the longer the wait. This concept might be foreign to you, but it certainly is something not new, especially to game developers. So no, you’re wrong to assume that a particular playstyle is not “fun”.
Nope.
I understand your point. I simply believe you are wrong. I think that kind of reasoning is used everywhere as an excuse for accepting something bad instead of trying to do better.
Using real life as an example: you described “grinding” your job daily to be successful. I think that’s wrong. I believe people should have jobs they enjoy so the experience of working itself is good; I see a lot of teenagers who think that “working” means being a McDonalds employee and nothing more, usually in the context of someone who doesn’t bother to do better than that. But those who seek a career – the doctors, engineers, and so on – pick a career based on what they like to do, not on what they can make do.
Same with MMORPGs. “Sense of progression”, “delayed gratification”, “rewarding dedication” – those are all excuses. There is no acceptable reason for a game to not give a fun experience, with or without a reward later. Accepting flawed content just to get a reward later on is accepting mediocrity, which for the records is all the majority of MMOs has been for the last years.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
What you fail to realize is that some people get their “fun” from delayed gratification. Some people purposely delay their gratification because the enjoyment is much sweeter the longer the wait. This concept might be foreign to you, but it certainly is something not new, especially to game developers. So no, you’re wrong to assume that a particular playstyle is not “fun”.
Nope.
I understand your point. I simply believe you are wrong. I think that kind of reasoning is used everywhere as an excuse for accepting something bad instead of trying to do better.
Using real life as an example: you described “grinding” your job daily to be successful. I think that’s wrong. I believe people should have jobs they enjoy so the experience of working itself is good; I see a lot of teenagers who think that “working” means being a McDonalds employee and nothing more, usually in the context of someone who doesn’t bother to do better than that. But those who seek a career – the doctors, engineers, and so on – pick a career based on what they like to do, not on what they can make do.
Same with MMORPGs. “Sense of progression”, “delayed gratification”, “rewarding dedication” – those are all excuses. There is no acceptable reason for a game to not give a fun experience, with or without a reward later. Accepting flawed content just to get a reward later on is accepting mediocrity, which for the records is all the majority of MMOs has been for the last years.
I’m not saying those things as an excuse. Such that even if there was a magical MMO content that produced fun on all activities for all people, you’d still see a group of people grinding and farming it out. Why? Because they derive their fun from delayed gratification, and by that I mean that they will choose to ignore/skip even this “fun” content because that content isn’t as fun as them getting more money/loot than the playerbase.
I also disagree about “grinding” in your job to make ends meet, and that you should enjoy your job as much as possible. However, reality (for some unlucky ones) is quite different from that ideal. There are also quite a number of people who, despite hating their job, stick to it because of the big fat paycheck they receive at the end of each month (hint: look at the job conditions at Singapore, S. Korea and Japan).
However, inasmuch as I have my own personal stance regarding that matter, I have no claim or right whatsoever to berate or criticize them for their career choice. It is their choice if they want to “grind out” their jobs. In the same manner, neither you or I have any right to dictate how other players should play (so long as it’s within the rules and EULA of the game ofc). We can express our own opinion, of course. But we cannot force that OPINION on other people. Shall we berate RPers now because they’re not “enjoying content” and just spam random stuff in a secluded part of the map?
Don’t disturb me, I have a cat in me at the moment.
(edited by penatbater.4710)
I also disagree about “grinding” in your job to make ends meet, and that you should enjoy your job as much as possible. However, reality (for some unlucky ones) is quite different from that ideal. There are also quite a number of people who, despite hating their job, stick to it because of the big fat paycheck they receive at the end of each month (hint: look at the job conditions at Singapore, S. Korea and Japan).
Some people simply don’t have a choice. If I had a family to feed and the only job available to me were something like a grind, I would probably take it. Meanwhile, to some people grinding is the easy way out so they decide to grind in real life as an excuse to not have the effort of seeking something better.
In a game, the first situation doesn’t happen, though. We are not forced to play a game and so to pick the “least bad” option. Even the guy who wants delayed gratification should demand the game to give him fun content while waiting for something he enjoys even more later on. Otherwise, games are simply allowed to be bad, as most MMORPGs are.
“I think that players are starting to mature past the point of wanting to be on that
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
treadmill, of being in that obvious pattern of every time I catch up you are going to
put another carrot in front of me” – Mike O’Brien right before Ascended weapons
Or, you know, have a bunch of people actually wanting fun content. The entire MMO playerbase is heavily segmented as well. As I’ve said, there are those grinders, and those casuals, and those who do prefer fun content in and of itself. I don’t think the inclusion of farmers in this game is going to be enough to devolve gw2 into a “farm/grind fest”. There are still waaaaay more casuals or people into fun content than farmers (hint: look at the # of people crying about farming nerfs) such that GW2 will always try to make fun content rather than make a figurative treadmill for people to be on. Don’t worry abt gw! :p
Don’t disturb me, I have a cat in me at the moment.