Guild Wars 2

From what I have seen so far with what is coming in the feature patch (and what is still to be announced and might be as in the China beta), I get the feeling that the feature patch itself is just an overhaul of the game mechanics to create more things ANet can sell on the gem store.

Buying traits on the gem store for example is a new possible option and I will eat my mesmer clones, if this will not be introduced. Many other F2P title have similar offers.

I also expect there to be a wardrobe (to be announced next monday) and account bound dyes, that will work like in China.

Don’t get me wrong, I am OK with the idea of a stronger gem store, as ANet needs to make some coin somehow. P2Convinience will become P2Shortcut. Which is fine too, as long as you can somehow earn most stuff while playing (like with traits).

So this is no rant, just something I thought more people would have realized by now.

Maybe my brain fools me, and I am just seeing things that are not there, so feel free to correct me.

I think you’re confusing too much from China. What was data mined still had stuff in it from that release and got mingled up with a lot of stuff that they’re announcing now. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to be implemented the way it is in China.

Don’t think they’ve ever SOLD anything on the Gem store that’s a key component of the core game’s mechanics such as traits… no reason to start thinking that now. Don’t see how you jumped to this conclusion at all, unless you’re just really really bored today =P.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

LOL Gem Store is PURE aesthetic part of the game, while TRAITS are a functional part of the game. They do not plan to go pay2win, just look2win type of model.

Even if they added traits to the gemstore, which they will not do. It still would not be P2W. For something to be P2W the ONLY way to get the item would be through R/L money, since nothing EVER in the gemstore has been made available through R/L money only. The gemstore is not P2W.

Ok, first, the purchasing of the trait via books is done through the npc trainers… for gold.. At least that’s what this:

“we’ve included the option for you to buy trait guides from profession trainers! The cost of current traits varies based on the tier of that trait. Newly added traits to the game will be set at a higher price point.”

says to me.

Second, don’t give them ideas! Core components of the game should never be a gemstore item.

Vol.7601:

How you concluded with buying traits on the gem store is beyond me.

If you want to come up with absurd ideas, there has to be a better one than that.

its actually highly likely, they have already sold trait resets in store, and its the analog in the new systems where they moved the gold sink from trait resets, to obtaining traits.

It would however be kind of pointless since you can already buy traits with gems via just buying gems and turning it to gold.

So yeah, it aint really crazy, its just redundant.

X The Manimal.5293:

Don’t think they’ve ever SOLD anything on the Gem store that’s a key component of the core game’s mechanics such as traits… no reason to start thinking that now. Don’t see how you jumped to this conclusion at all, unless you’re just really really bored today =P.

they already have? they are making it use gold, which is probably the number one gem store item.

And yes the development does consider the gem store fairly often. But thats how its going to be. As long as they can make the game fun and rewarding without the gem store use, its cool. Sometimes i feel they cross that line, but i dont think the traits will be one of those times.

I would pay for a cosmetic change to some skills.

I think you got this all wrong OP.
Nothing in the blogpost yesterday about traits said anything about buying traits from gemstore. It said earning them by doing in game content, such as dungeons, meta events etc. and buying them with ingame gold from an npc similar to how we have been buying the manuals up till now.

Just like how they sold the new skills, runes, sigils on the gemstore, right?

While you may be right about the dyes, how you come to the conclusion that they’ll sell Traits on the store is beyond me.

I don’t see how any of this would change the honestly pretty great setup they have going for us.

They could add an instant lvl 80 thing to the gem store. They could have a full gear set box in exotic form.

They could do just about anything they want that in other games would be P2W.

But in GW2 it won’t be, because if you simply play, earn gold, buy gems with your gold, you can do and get all these things by simply playing the game. Until the option to buy gems with gold disappears nothing will truly be P2W, or even if you want to classify something as such… there’s no issue as again you can get ANYTHING by simply playing the game thanks to that conversion.

So hypothetically, if traits were available for purchase on the gem store, in addition to the already announced methods to obtain them (i.e. certain dungeon bosses, maybe JPs, etc), would you have a problem with it? They’ve already said you can purchase them with gold, which can be purchased with gems.

If there is an avenue to get the same thing without having to purchase anything (which they’ve confirmed), then why would anyone care if they were in fact available on the gem store as well.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Buying traits on the gem store for example is a new possible option

Where the hell do people even come up with this stuff from?
Seriously, aren’t you embarrassed typing something so ridiculous out in public?

You don’t get it don’t you. Many other pay to play games have almost as many items in their gemstore. Not surprised I see you as a creator of the thread though. You learn with time that some people just like to hate and there is no point of taking them seriously.

Like your statement that GW2 is a little fish with sharks being the f2p, pay2win MMOs in asia, that 99% of the western aduience hate, expect you and your guilld perhaps.

I am awaiting you soon to pull off something like did you know, WoW was never the world’s most subscribed game, it was ESO.

phys.7689:

Vol.7601:

How you concluded with buying traits on the gem store is beyond me.

If you want to come up with absurd ideas, there has to be a better one than that.

its actually highly likely, they have already sold trait resets in store, and its the analog in the new systems where they moved the gold sink from trait resets, to obtaining traits.

I seriously do not see how you can conclude that since they sold trait resets in the store, that they would sell traits directly. Is it because they use the word ‘traits’??

They sold trait resets because it was a convenience item.

Why would they sell traits in the gem store, when they will be available not only in game after completing in content, but purchaseable from the NPC?

Vol.7601:

phys.7689:

Vol.7601:

How you concluded with buying traits on the gem store is beyond me.

If you want to come up with absurd ideas, there has to be a better one than that.

its actually highly likely, they have already sold trait resets in store, and its the analog in the new systems where they moved the gold sink from trait resets, to obtaining traits.

I seriously do not see how you can conclude that since they sold trait resets in the store, that they would sell traits directly. Is it because they use the word ‘traits’??

They sold trait resets because it was a convenience item.

Why would they sell traits in the gem store, when they will be available not only in game after completing in content, but purchaseable from the NPC?

the second part of the post you quoted goes on to say, though it would be likely, it is redundant, because you can already buy traits in game just buy buying gold.

And it isnt ridiculous, they sold the same thing in GW1, and that had much less pervasive gem store.

Im not trying to put a moral judgement on whether its cool to do so or not, im just saying its not off the rails, in fact its already built in by making it a gold purchase.

Anet is pretty against pay to win. I would be shocked if they did sell traits on the gem store. Especially since it’s already been said you can either hunt them down or buy them from the class trainer.

You can convert gold to gems.

People still ignore that one simple thing?

Jerus.4350:

I don’t see how any of this would change the honestly pretty great setup they have going for us.

They could add an instant lvl 80 thing to the gem store. They could have a full gear set box in exotic form.

They could do just about anything they want that in other games would be P2W.

But in GW2 it won’t be, because if you simply play, earn gold, buy gems with your gold, you can do and get all these things by simply playing the game. Until the option to buy gems with gold disappears nothing will truly be P2W, or even if you want to classify something as such… there’s no issue as again you can get ANYTHING by simply playing the game thanks to that conversion.

The problem with this methodology is inflation and demand. GW2 is far from the first game to implement this system, and if power in any form becomes purchasable in such ways, you see the value of gold decrease per dollar, for then the out-of-game currency becomes the preferred transaction model and the standard for most of the game’s economy. This example has occurred in R:BF already. The in-game currency used to be worth a fair amount of USD. Over time, new patches, and IM implementations, the value went from around 100k currency/$1 to 20 million currency/$1. That’s a massive increase and almost all transactions made are/have been done with out-of-game currency except for trivial sales due to the demand for having out-of-game currency.

Buying traits, as long as they can be unlocked through normal play, would be ok with me. Even one of those “bump to level 20” scrolls. I still have 6 or so sitting in my bank from who knows what activity.

I am surprised that people are getting so hostile, while I have absolutely no problem with a third option for traits (just an example).

I know that I am fairly critical on the state of the game, but this topic is not meant to be a rant. I even stated it in the first post.

Selling stuff like that is fairly common in games like LotRO or AoC. I do not see any P2W. It is just a shortcut, which is cool with me, as I prefer to actually play the game for rewards, than to buy them and be bored.

The thing is, at least I see features added with the feature patch being more of an possible upgrade to the gem store, to make it more interesting. Which is good. This game runs on the store, it should offer some stuff people want besides cosmetics.

Well, what is certain is that they have to bring something more “exciting” than what we have heard so far.

Too many things happening in the game market this year, including MMO market.

This game’s been idle for almost 2 years now – and please, dont try to sell me the Living Story bullkitten – so there’s got to be something big in the summer GW2 calendar. Expansion-worthy content maybe?

The future of this game as we know it will be decided this year. Let’s see what ANet has in store for us ( gem store allusion coincidental ).

GW1 had the possibility to buy skill packs, etc. I don’t see the problem with it.

butch.8136:

GW1 had the possibility to buy skill packs, etc. I don’t see the problem with it.

Yeah, it seems they finally looked at what made GW1 work. I do not understand why people think traits on the gem store are totally impossible.

Now we just need expansions to happen, the LS in its current incarnation hinders progression, which is why it should just stop (no season 2) imho.

butch.8136:

GW1 had the possibility to buy skill packs, etc. I don’t see the problem with it.

This, but who would pay real money/large sums of gold to unlock traits that you can already unlock through gameplay?

Unless they offered traits that cannot be learned without the gemstore, there is no problem.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I do not understand why people think traits on the gem store are totally impossible.

Because they said they will be available from an NPC, dude. But I agree with what someone said. It’s funny how people believe this look4pay bullkitten. GW2 is obviously p2w from the moment they allow you to directly buy gold.

Moss.5371:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I do not understand why people think traits on the gem store are totally impossible.

Because they said they will be available from an NPC, dude. But I agree with what someone said. It’s funny how people believe this look4pay bullkitten. GW2 is obviously p2w from the moment they allow you to directly buy gold.

You can buy gems and convert them into gold, where is the difference.

And they said, you will need gold AND skill points to unlock traits at a trainer. So selling traits on the gem store will safe you spending skill points on traits. New players and new characters in genereal are short of skill points, so they could safe them, if they purchase traits on the store.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I also expect there to be a wardrobe (to be announced next monday) and account bound dyes […]

Just sayin…

And this whole post is moot now. Things actually got way less gem store dependent. Account bound dyes? Less dye pack purchases. Retrait anywhere? No need to by instant trait resets.

Technically, as long as you can convert gold to gems and vice versa, nothing is P2W since you can get gold by playing the game. So they can put anything in the store they want.

Iason Evan.3806:

And this whole post is moot now. Things actually got way less gem store dependent. Account bound dyes? Less dye pack purchases. Retrait anywhere? No need to by instant trait resets.

Only if wardrobe will be free in pvp. But I’m sure anet always wanted to monetize e$port.

I hate the way this game nickel and dimes me for stuff that should’ve been in the game from the beginning. It’s why I can’t do this F2P cash shop BS. Not to mention, the game itself is do unrewarding that it’s simply easier to buy gold from the shop. Terrible, greedy design.

Iason Evan.3806:

And this whole post is moot now. Things actually got way less gem store dependent. Account bound dyes? Less dye pack purchases. Retrait anywhere? No need to by instant trait resets.

actually no.
dyes no longer drop randomly, now gem store and craft only
retrait items werent in shop for awhile, and they probably werent selling at all anyway.

yes these changes are heavily tied to the gem shop.
I see one of the problems with the current system is while the game wasnt designed with the gem shop in mind, most of the updates or lack of updates, have been designed with gem shop in mind.
Company got to make money, but at the same time the base game is becoming less palettable over time.

If i was going to pay them money, id rather pay for content/expansions at least then they would be most encouraged to create new content, rather than monetize all new armors, and streamline old systems to better make profit off of them

Is there really any difference in buying them from the gemstore or from an npc for gold. Either way can be done with gems. The main issue I could see with selling them on the gemstore is if its exclusive to the gemstore. Grinding gold to buy gems is Bullkitten I don’t care what anyone says.

PS I do agree with Phys though. Some changes on the surface seem really good but they are really just trying to find more ways to get you in the gemstore

Why do people continue to think GW2 is free?

Like it or not the game requires a profit and people to spend money in the gem shop to function.

If the above stops the game gets shut down.

So obviously systems that are released also have mechanics which would create revenue for the company – if not there would be no more GW2.

Iason Evan.3806:

And this whole post is moot now. Things actually got way less gem store dependent. Account bound dyes? Less dye pack purchases. Retrait anywhere? No need to by instant trait resets.

I do not know if you realized, that dyes will be very hard to come by now. The mystic forge or the gem store. Taking them out of the world, is obviously a move to make the other options more commonly used.

And the wardrobe, we will have to wait and see. I bet there will be stuff on the gem store for it, they will probably add a function where you can buy many skins directly for the locker somehow in the gem store. At least that is what I would do, if I was ANet.

Azreell.1568:

Why do people continue to think GW2 is free?

Like it or not the game requires a profit and people to spend money in the gem shop to function.

If the above stops the game gets shut down.

So obviously systems that are released also have mechanics which would create revenue for the company – if not there would be no more GW2.

profit must be made, but your profit has to make the customer feel like its worth it. Figuring that out is the job of the consumer and the seller. Your always going to have to pay, but how is that effecting your experience, there are a lot people that are beginning to prefer sub models, because the cash shop models begin to seem like they are effecting the development of a good game. maybe they have a good equation, maybe they dont. No one will ever know if they are optimizing potential profit.

I missed the part when it’s compared to “Many other F2P title have similar offers”
maybe because i spent 80$ on a “deluxe” version.
So did we found a kickstarter so it will start cashing out everything in the game after a year or so after release?
and if this shift to make everything visual/skins @ 800gem aka 10$ aka ~74gold.
this starts to smell like worse than any “F2P title” since many people bought the game AND invested lots of hours into this what seems to be now a RNG progression system.

So as far for skins it’s really like it or not, boosts whatever if someone needs a shortcut sure, quality of life gathering+ salvaging, pets that reward achievement points “umm”, the need to buy extra classes slots to be unlock achievements.
All this already gated behind an extra pay way either it’s $ or pretty long grind in game with a try to make the player feel like it’s a great idea to drop that $.

So the main question how far will it go?

Some of the changes are good but what is the untold story line, what if tomorrow after unlocking achievement skin you will have to pay another extra to use it, or dyes will now be per charge.
Which i so hope it will be 0 charges/free to use as shown in the preview video.

Note: i didn’t mixed the redo of the UI and transmutation stones and/or saying it should be free.

Moss.5371:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I do not understand why people think traits on the gem store are totally impossible.

Because they said they will be available from an NPC, dude. But I agree with what someone said. It’s funny how people believe this look4pay bullkitten. GW2 is obviously p2w from the moment they allow you to directly buy gold.

Except that anything you can buy with cash, you can buy with Gold that you earn by simply….playing the game.

For something to be Pay2win, it needs to be where the gem store does a couple of things, which Anet’s shop doesn’t do.

They need to sell items that give players a huge advantage In the game over players that do NOT spend real cash.

They need to sell these items ONLY in the gem store, where ONLY real world cash can be spent.

There needs to be NO way that these items can be earned purely through in game play.

Let’s look at these each.

Are there any items in the gem store thjat give a HUGE advantage to players that spend cash, that are also NOT available through purely in game play?

Well… except for Gold. Maybe you can make an argument for xp boosters etc… except those are also available purely through Playing the game, they drop off chests, they are rewards from daily, monthly… bags that drop off Mobs etc…. strike 1.

Are there Items that can ONLY be Purchased through the gem store, that can ONLY be purchased with real world cash?

No. Because you can trade in game Gold, earned purely through playing the game, for gems, that can then be used to buy anything in the store. Strike 2.

Are there any items that can ONLY be bought for cash where there is no way to also earn them through In game Play?

As far as i know, as Long as Gold can be traded for gems..NOTHING On the gem store… qualifies. Since Gold can be earned Purely through In game Play. Strike 3.

I see a lot of people try to make the argument that " Guild Wars 2 is pay2play"
It amazes me since making gems purchaseable with ih game gold, totally goes against the spirit of some games that ONLY sell some items through the cash shop.

I do remember many posts by the OP, that seem to be negative, or present Gw2 in a negative light to those NOT familiar with the actual game. I just wonder why I never remember any positive posts from the OP?

Nerelith.7360:

I do remember many posts by the OP, that seem to be negative, or present Gw2 in a negative light to those NOT familiar with the actual game. I just wonder why I never remember any positive posts from the OP?

Maybe because there’s nothing worthy to praise? 1.5 year has gone by and anet might have finally monetized their e$port.

Well, I tend to critizice gamplay relevant decisions. Story, gear progression, game progression in general.

I have never ever critiziced the gem store itself (well I have critiziced the sprocket gathering tool, as it was a special case, but ANet dropped that model). It is a necessary evil for the developers to keep the game running.

So this topic is no critic on the gem store, rather something I have realized reading the first feature patch notes, and confirmed after the second.

Don’t worry, when the game goes P2W, I will leave a comment here or there, but we are – for now – far away from that.

butch.8136:

GW1 had the possibility to buy skill packs, etc. I don’t see the problem with it.

Hold on, thats not a realistic comparison, the skill packs were intended for people who didnt have all the game expansions and therefore couldnt get the skills otherwise.

Eskarina Tigress.3785:

butch.8136:

GW1 had the possibility to buy skill packs, etc. I don’t see the problem with it.

Hold on, thats not a realistic comparison, the skill packs were intended for people who didnt have all the game expansions and therefore couldnt get the skills otherwise.

No, GW1 had PvP mini-expansions that only contained the skills (I think, I owned all the expansions, so I wasn’t interested in them), but it also had skill unlock packs that unlocked all the skills of one profession. Then you could use them in PvP, give them to your heroes and buy them via tomes/trainers. I actually wouldn’t mind if they did the same thing in GW2, because skills are very easy to get already.

You already get all the traits for gold. What on earth is this thread.

Nerelith.7360:

Moss.5371:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I do not understand why people think traits on the gem store are totally impossible.

Because they said they will be available from an NPC, dude. But I agree with what someone said. It’s funny how people believe this look4pay bullkitten. GW2 is obviously p2w from the moment they allow you to directly buy gold.

Except that anything you can buy with cash, you can buy with Gold that you earn by simply….playing the game.

For something to be Pay2win, it needs to be where the gem store does a couple of things, which Anet’s shop doesn’t do.

They need to sell items that give players a huge advantage In the game over players that do NOT spend real cash.

They need to sell these items ONLY in the gem store, where ONLY real world cash can be spent.

There needs to be NO way that these items can be earned purely through in game play.

Let’s look at these each.

Are there any items in the gem store thjat give a HUGE advantage to players that spend cash, that are also NOT available through purely in game play?

Well… except for Gold. Maybe you can make an argument for xp boosters etc… except those are also available purely through Playing the game, they drop off chests, they are rewards from daily, monthly… bags that drop off Mobs etc…. strike 1.

Are there Items that can ONLY be Purchased through the gem store, that can ONLY be purchased with real world cash?

No. Because you can trade in game Gold, earned purely through playing the game, for gems, that can then be used to buy anything in the store. Strike 2.

Are there any items that can ONLY be bought for cash where there is no way to also earn them through In game Play?

As far as i know, as Long as Gold can be traded for gems..NOTHING On the gem store… qualifies. Since Gold can be earned Purely through In game Play. Strike 3.

I see a lot of people try to make the argument that " Guild Wars 2 is pay2play"
It amazes me since making gems purchaseable with ih game gold, totally goes against the spirit of some games that ONLY sell some items through the cash shop.

I do remember many posts by the OP, that seem to be negative, or present Gw2 in a negative light to those NOT familiar with the actual game. I just wonder why I never remember any positive posts from the OP?

- “They need to sell items that give players a huge advantage In the game over players that do NOT spend real cash.”

Real money to in game gold is unacceptable, if you think otherwise then I weep for the future of MMO’s. Recent updates namely ascended crafting have multiplied this at least 10 fold.

The rest of your argument is based on the fact that you can get most of the things that matter from the gem store by playing the game… and transferring gold to gems. But just how MUCH do you have to play?

Which pretty much translates to… GW2 isnt P2W, but its for kitten sure PAY TO NOT GRIND. Which is just as bad.

Zepidel.5349:

Nerelith.7360:

Moss.5371:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I do not understand why people think traits on the gem store are totally impossible.

Because they said they will be available from an NPC, dude. But I agree with what someone said. It’s funny how people believe this look4pay bullkitten. GW2 is obviously p2w from the moment they allow you to directly buy gold.

Except that anything you can buy with cash, you can buy with Gold that you earn by simply….playing the game.

… snip…

- “They need to sell items that give players a huge advantage In the game over players that do NOT spend real cash.”

Real money to in game gold is unacceptable, if you think otherwise then I weep for the future of MMO’s. Recent updates namely ascended crafting have multiplied this at least 10 fold.

The rest of your argument is based on the fact that you can get most of the things that matter from the gem store by playing the game… and transferring gold to gems. But just how MUCH do you have to play?

Which pretty much translates to… GW2 isnt P2W, but its for kitten sure PAY TO NOT GRIND. Which is just as bad.

Unfortunate as it may be, Paying real world cash for gold is an inconvenience that cannot be eliminated from MMO’s. While i do remember a time when playing MMO’s carried a stigma against players that purchased cash with real money, and the only people that sold it were 3rd party Gold farmers, it has become a staple of our MMO’s.

A lot of it may be because many not all, of today’s gamers feel that they are entitled to the fastest way to a given destination as possible even if that means paying for it with real money.

It may also be because a lot of today’s MMO players deep down don’t like playing MMO’s they just like reaching the cap level ASAP. ( I blame a specific MMO Giant for bringing a Lot of gamers into MMO’s who wanted a 3d avatar based Social media outlet. They do not Like to really PLAY the game Like people that played games Like EVERQUEST and DAoC play games.)

Today’s MMO’s are inundatedby “casuals” for them… it’s more " efficient" to pull out a credit card and order some gold. They are unapologetic. They do not care if the violate ToS to do so by purchasing it off some Gold farmer. I even remember many of them Posting here…comparing the " $/ Gold ratio of Anet, compared to " other gold sellers." and how. " Anet needs to be more competative."

The fact that " the competition" is a Bunch of people that would hack into their account ASAP does Not seem to make an impression.

So… Anet sees all these gold sellers selling Gold… and figures.." Meh… people see Gold buying as an acceptable part of their gaming experience. We may as well offer them the service as well, at least through us, No one hacks their accounts or just walks off with their money."

Many of today’s casuals feel entitled. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. For them the 1-80 part of the game is not something to " play" it’s something to be gotten through ASAP.

The Huge difference is… while most MMO’s have a “Cash Shop” where many game breaking items are directly sold ONLY for cash…. Anet allows all these items mostly cosmetic,… some game “shortcuts” None needed to play the game… for in game gold, since you can buy gems for Gold.

As to how long it takes to buy gems with Gold…that is a free market price, based on how many players PLAY the game, then turn their Gold to gems, compared to how many simply pull out the credit card.

P.S. Pay to Not Grind = pay to not play.

it used to be before a certain gaming giant decided to cut as Much of the 1-80 experience out of their game and added the mantra " The game begins at 80" to gaming conciousness, that actual "Players " of MMO’s…Now refered to as " Hardcore" gamers… (see back then these used to be the majority of players…)
EXPECTED the game to be a grind. Level 1….was as important a part of the game , as level 13…as level 27….as level 32…. as level 70 then 80,,…etc.

so No, it is not " Pay to not grind" it’s “Pay to not play”. You cannot blame Anet for giving players what they want. If they don’t get the gold from Anet, they will simply buy it elsewhere. Better the service be provided by someone players Know will not hack their accounts… or simply walk away with the CC info… money etc.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Technically, as long as you can convert gold to gems and vice versa, nothing is P2W since you can get gold by playing the game. So they can put anything in the store they want.

You get gold from playing the auction house or running the zerg champion train.

If you rely on fractals and dungeons for income, your gold increase comes at a glacial pace.

Just to buy a stack of 5 transmutation stones I’m looking at around 12 dungeon runs.

A fractal 48 daily gives 1 gold 30 silver alongside a couple of mats that might bump you to 2-3 gold total for a 1+ hour run.

Gold income is not done by playing the game. It’s done by farming it or playing virtual trader.

WvW certainly doesn’t get you gold to get ascended crafting done in any reasonable amount of time.

Buying traits on the gem store

stop smoking plants, it hurts your brains!