Guild Wars 2

(2/2)

And before you say “it doesn’t matter”: it does. The current difference between Exotic and Ascended is calculated at roughly 10% – And this is before factoring in weapons, which may or may not increase this gap. 10% is not nothing. If you think 10% is nothing take off your Amulet next time you play and then say it’s nothing. 10% is what the strongest traits give you. 10% is the difference between wearing a weapon and not. In a game like this, 1% can be the difference between winning a fight by the skin of your teeth and losing. 10% is the world.

Additionally, for an uneven distribution stat such as Critical Damage, and in a game where min-maxing exists, ascended can be the difference between an item slot being a waste of stats or being the best use of them.

For example, Exotic Rings are, statistically, a waste of stats for Critical Damage: Each 1% of critical damage costs a whooping 16 stat points! That’s some of the most expensive critical damage you can get, and absolutely not worth it. However, if you turn that into an ascended ring then each 1% of critical damage only costs 8.5 stat points! Suddenly, that’s some of the cheapest critical damage you can get!

Backpieces suffer from the same issue, going from a terrible 1:16 ratio to 1:7, effectively the cheapest crit damage you can ever get.

These might seem minor, but when you’re min-maxing a build it means the world. It means having to redo an entire gear set based on one piece suddenly throwing the whole equation off.

The Fix:

So Ascended gear is a problem… But how do we fix it? We started this thread by establishing that, for whatever reason, Ascended is here to stay. Removing it outright is not an option. So what is?

Simple, I propose something that not only makes Ascended more attractive to any player (and more worthy of the time investment instead of just being another arbitrary piece of vertical progression), but also greatly mitigates the issue of build diversity being essentially shot in the head, using a mechanic already programmed:

Simply make Ascended able to change stats outside of battle, like the new Legendary weapons can.

By allowing this you give people a reason to go for and invest in Ascended gear other than simply inflated stats, you promote build variety and experimentation, and even mitigate the aggravating and artificially inflated vertical progression, by adding a very convenient factor to it.

The other option is to simply make them exotic stats with infusion slots, but not only do I seriously doubt you’d even seriously consider that, but I can also foresee potential customer issues, such as “I invested time/money (gems) into an item because it was stronger and now it isn’t anymore!”. By simply making it more convenient, you refrain from angering anyone (…anymore at least) and instead just make everybody happier.

As is, Ascended gear is a very hefty investment. It also feels like a mandatory one for anyone even mildly serious about this game (particularly the WvW component). This change could be the difference between Ascended being received as yet another arbitrary treadmill (…which is what it is right now…) or something that’s actually welcome, a minor inconvenience that, nonetheless, comes with relevant benefits.

My 2 cents. Whatever they’re worth.

Been saying this for months and it went nowhere. I don’t think they care.

Yeah, they are on their path. You just have to decide if you want to go with them.

The overwhelming outrage consists of a couple dozen individuals who rage against any change made to the game no matter how small. There are several million other customers to think about, with opinions ranging from “I like the idea” to “I don’t care.” The reason why we have these changes to the game is because the majority of players do not agree with you. There are other games out there, keep looking until you find the right fit.

Yes I completely agree, Ascended gear being time gated requires a whole bunch of dedication and grinding which not many enjoy. At the moment I only have 1 set of ascended trinkets and I am not intersted at all in investing more time in a new set.
I would really like to be able to have flexibility and change my stats to fit the battle ahead but ascended gear is way more restrictive than exotic was and Im stuck playing only one build which I hope never gets nerfed.

Thus if they allow people to change ascended stats easily, even if it was at a cost (say 1 gold per piece? ) I would be very happy.

tolunart.2095:

The overwhelming outrage consists of a couple dozen individuals who rage against any change made to the game no matter how small.

Got any evidence to support that?

I’m the first to say I don’t have absolute numbers, but all of the evidence I’ve found points towards you being wrong. I provided some. Care to do the same?

Nope.

tolunart.2095:

Nope.

Well, you know the way out then.

LOL I’m not going anywhere. This isn’t a debate, the new gear (which hasn’t even been put into the game yet, congrats on pre-kittenstorming) isn’t going to be “fixed” because it’s what Anet wants it to be.

They are going to do what they feel is best for the game, and have access to a great deal more info about the players than you or I. There’s nothing to talk about here, you just don’t like seeing the game grow and change. The point of playing an MMO is that it grows and changes.

Me, I couldn’t care less about ascended gear. It won’t be necessary to have any of it to continue playing the game as I have been since last September.

tolunart.2095:

The overwhelming outrage consists of a couple dozen individuals who rage against any change made to the game no matter how small. There are several million other customers to think about, with opinions ranging from “I like the idea” to “I don’t care.” The reason why we have these changes to the game is because the majority of players do not agree with you. There are other games out there, keep looking until you find the right fit.

Your argument is literally this:

“Your obviously over exaggerated estimated on numbers is invalid because of my obviously made-up estimated majority that counters your input.”

Are you a genius troll?

tolunart.2095:

The overwhelming outrage consists of a couple dozen individuals who rage against any change made to the game no matter how small.

Actually I’d wager you 100 gold that your statement, is in fact, incorrect. When the patch notes dropped talking about Ascended gear or the rumor (take your pick which dropped first) there was a mega thread created rather quickly. The overwhelming outrage wasn’t from a couple dozen individuals. The post had over 10,000 posts and I don’t remember the actual number of views. Shortly thereafter a official comment was posted stating their design reason and how Ascended gear was always intended.

Believe what you will but the end result was that they admitted they screwed the pooch in delivering the news about Ascended items. However, it is what it is and they went ahead and released what they designed originally. So yes. They said they could have delivered the news about the new gear better but it is our choice if we want to participate or not.

Just what the impact is on the community? I have no idea. I know it isn’t just a handful and I also know it is not the majority. Honestly, if falls in the middle somewhere and it probably doesn’t matter in the longer run. What I do know is that each person needs to find their tolerance on it. Me? I personally don’t like them and think it will hurt the game in the long run. Short term it is easy to ignore and fight the system. But with each new content push or new itemization it gets harder and harder to keep up with the Jones.

Legendaries are already crazy.
Ascended gear is a chore.
Dailies are now part of your everyday game play.
2 week content cycle is making it tough for casual play.
PvE != s/tPvP or WvW – player vs. player is getting left behind and out of the loop

Let us all face it. The game is no longer just a Dress Up Barbie game whereas armor and weapon textures are what make everyone unique. Stat creep is here and it is only going to widen the already present gap. Just one mans opinion on it.

To fix it is to remove it. And that isn’t going to happen. Thus to each his/her own. May we all make the right choice.

If there was an actual majority of players speaking out against Ascended gear for the 10 months since it was first introduced, do you really think that Anet would alienate most of their player base by continuing to move forward with plans to introduce something they hate?

Or, just maybe, not everyone is obsessed with BiS equipment and so there are a few people who really like Ascended gear, and will appreciate new goals to work for in the game beyond their fifth Legendary weapon, and there are a great many players who find Ascended gear irrelevant and therefore will not be negatively impacted by the introduction of new gear because they simply don’t care to go for it.

Myself, I side with logic over emotion. For those who disagree, I have a fine selection of tinfoil hats available for purchase on eBay.

Crapgame.6519:

Legendaries are already crazy.
Ascended gear is a chore.
Dailies are now part of your everyday game play.
2 week content cycle is making it tough for casual play.
PvE != s/tPvP or WvW – player vs. player is getting left behind and out of the loop

None of these things have affected the way I or my wife play the game at all. I do what I want to do, not what someone else tells me I have to do. So stop trying to keep up with the Joneses and play the game the way you want to play.

If that is the way you want to play, then take ownership of your choice and stop pretending that you have to do this, you want to do this.

It is not broken and there is no need to fix.

You just don’t like it so you are making something up about it being broken.

Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it is broken.

Your whole argument is opinion, no facts in there except maybe how it is going to be rolled out, otherwise it is all hogwash.

tolunart.2095:

If there was an actual majority of players speaking out against Ascended gear for the 10 months since it was first introduced, do you really think that Anet would alienate most of their player base by continuing to move forward with plans to introduce something they hate?

I do. They answered the original post. They designed the game that way and just blew it by not letting people know. Everyone (right or wrongly) went about the game has exotics and legendary weapons are it. Equal stats, different textures. Maybe the thread is still around, try a search. I mean, maybe that is why they gated the release? Maybe that is why they added the laurels? I don’t work there, I can only tell you what I recall from reading, and participating, in the thread.

Also note it wasn’t closed nor did people get banned. For the most part it was a civil debate regardless of what side you sat on. Also note it isn’t about BiS mind you but what happens when there is a 10 stat difference in some forms of game play. At first it was only a spread of 10. With each new piece available the disparity increased (additive, agreed?). Note I said triad of game play (or at least I think I did). WvW and PvE while different, the same gear can be used. WvW will notice it more than PvE. Thus my comment about inspect or gear score. We don’t have either yet which most people agree is good.

And WvW isn’t just about large zerg warfare and s/tPvP is different because gear isn’t used there.

tolunart.2095:

Crapgame.6519:

Legendaries are already crazy.
Ascended gear is a chore.
Dailies are now part of your everyday game play.
2 week content cycle is making it tough for casual play.
PvE != s/tPvP or WvW – player vs. player is getting left behind and out of the loop

None of these things have affected the way I or my wife play the game at all. I do what I want to do, not what someone else tells me I have to do. So stop trying to keep up with the Joneses and play the game the way you want to play.

If that is the way you want to play, then take ownership of your choice and stop pretending that you have to do this, you want to do this.

Who said anything about keeping up with the Jones. It is just a statement.

The stat creep does impact the game I play which is WvW. See the picture now? When “I” have enough I will take a break. However, you should not assume that it is just a handful of people disagreeing with you or your wife. Has I said – search for the thread and you will see it isn’t a handful (and it isn’t the majority). I think if you search a bit more you will see the “official” post about Ascended gear and their mishandle.

That is a fact no matter how many times you click your heels to say otherwise.

Crapgame.6519:

I do. They answered the original post. They designed the game that way and just blew it by not letting people know. Everyone (right or wrongly) went about the game has exotics and legendary weapons are it. Equal stats, different textures. Maybe the thread is still around, try a search. I mean, maybe that is why they gated the release? Maybe that is why they added the laurels? I don’t work there, I can only tell you what I recall from reading, and participating, in the thread.

I disagree. They’ve had ten months to study the reaction, how many people stopped logging in afterwards, how many returned since then, etc. I can’t imagine a meeting where something like this happens:

“According to our research, if we go ahead with plans to introduce new Ascended gear, approximately 40% of our current players will quit in disgust”

“Sounds great! The servers are too crowded anyway. Go ahead with the plan.”

There are a lot of people who are very vocal on the forums about hating the temp content and the pace of Living Story updates, too. But Anet hasn’t backed down from those plans, either.

The forums are naturally attractive to players with an axe to grind about something, and also tolls who just like to stir things up. I’ve been playing MMOs and reading the forums for over 2.5 years now, and EVERY change to the game brings a wave of outrage from people who seem to feel the devs made those changes just to kitten off those individual players.

They don’t spend months developing content on a whim, and they don’t change direction just because some manager who likes bunnies and unicorns declared that all new content will be bunny and unicorn related. They study every aspect of the game carefully and consider changes based on how it will affect everyone, not just you.

I support the flexibility option … make them able to swap stats.

As for their stats, they should be scaled to exotic in WvW, because that’s where they really matter.

Crapgame.6519:

The stat creep does impact the game I play which is WvW. See the picture now? When “I” have enough I will take a break. However, you should not assume that it is just a handful of people disagreeing with you or your wife. Has I said – search for the thread and you will see it isn’t a handful (and it isn’t the majority). I think if you search a bit more you will see the “official” post about Ascended gear and their mishandle.

That is a fact no matter how many times you click your heels to say otherwise.

Our statements are only opinions, not facts. Neither of us have the actual numbers, only Anet does. What we can see is the effect of studying those numbers on their plans to develop the game.

Perhaps WvWvW play isn’t as high on their list. Personally, I find the statements that a small change to stats has a greatly magnified effect on that aspect of the game to be a little hard to swallow. A great player with great tools is better than a great player with mediocre tools, yes. But a great player with a stick and a loincloth is better than a bad player with BiS gear.

The impact of Ascended gear on any aspect of play is minimal. It will be months before a majority of players are outfitted with the new gear, and in that time many other things can happen, and you will learn how to deal with the slightly more powerful opponents.

Most of these problems are in players’ heads, not in the game. You are not required to agree, but don’t expect me to change my mind no matter how many times you repeat it.

Nevertheless, we will continue to say that we hate it and gripe about how it affects us.

In case this wasn’t completely clear. I’m an entitled, selfish, self-righteous, son-of-a-kitten. The only thing I care about is my own amusement. Unless in some way your having a good time increases my having a good time. I don’t care if you have a good time. I don’t care if most people like something. I don’t care what a focus group says. I don’t care if a change can be ignored. I don’t care if 2,999,999 out of 3,000,000 people are fine with a change. If I don’t like it, I’m going to say so.

And I won’t shut up just because you think most people are fine with the change.

Note: This is categorically different from “give it a chance you may like it.” Which is a different and IMO better argument. You’re just saying that ANet decided that most people want this.

Edit: I don’t expect you to change your mind. Honestly, I don’t think we’re talking to each other.

Well heck, you got me with the 2.5 years of MMO experience.

Look. You probably won’t be able to provide enough information to based on facts to change my mind. Same with me to you. What I will end my piece is really this simple. Back in the Lost Shores event time frame, around November of last year there was a pretty lengthy thread about this. I’m telling you it wasn’t a handful of people. Take that for what it is worth.

In turn, that debate went down the road of the developers breaking the manifesto that they touted to make GW2 different than the rest. Furthermore, people felt let down or betrayed (which sounds odd for a game but to each his/her own). Because of this, and the necessary damage control, co-founder O’Brien wrote something on it.

You can search if you so choose the threads, twitter messages, etc. It was all around that time from what I recall. I will tell you one thing you are wrong about a handful, two hands, feet, and toes. It was a bigger issue. Just how much today is hard to say…

Only thing that I know for sure is that anyone with a legendary doesn’t have to worry because it will get stats adjusted has we have already seen in game before they patched them out.

I hope you do have a good day.

TooBz.3065:

And I won’t shut up just because you think most people are fine with the change.

Neither will I, no matter how many people disagree with me.

ProxyDamage.9826:

The message was loud and clear: “We don’t really want more vertical progression”. The reply was equally clear: “Tough kitten. You’re getting it.”

I don’t think that’s what happened.

I think the game released, sold a lot (like all other MMOs), and then lost a lot of players a few months after release (like all other MMOs). I think ArenaNet took a look at the players who were leaving – the MMO locusts, who hop from MMO to MMO seeking a perfect clone of their first online world (which was usually WoW) – and, panicking as the game was hemorrhaging players, the designers decided to add the features those players were asking for.

And what did the MMO locusts want? More of the same, of course. More of what there is in every other MMORPG. More progression, more grind, and so on. I believe ArenaNet rushed to make exactly those things, hence gear grind (ascended gear) and progression grind (Fractals of the Mists and Agony). The fact a large part of the then GW2 community (the players who were playing the game because they wanted to play GW2, as opposed to playing another MMORPG clone) complained was largerly irrelevant – ArenaNet knew what the players who were leaving wanted, and it was grind to become more powerful.

Hence, ascended gear is here to stay.

Now, I think some other interesting things began to happen. I believe ArenaNet began noticing how the players who played the most were not doing Dynamic Events or going to the personal storyline or exploring the map. No, the most avid players were just farming. Adding new events to the game was mostly ignored, but any update that changed anything about farming was met with a big reply. See the popularity of even low level Fractals.

So… The logical thing to do was to please those players, since they are the ones who play the most, and they are easy to please – they don’t want fun content, new DEs with unique mechanics, or a good storyline; rather, they just want to farm. Considering how many of those players were also those who were complaining about the lack of things to grind for, Ascension gear would be great for them: it would give them a motivation to farm.

Hence the avalanche of farming content. Southsun and 200% Magic Find; the Crown Pavillion, which was basically a huge farming cesspit; and now the invasions, that are basically “whack a champion” zerg-style.

Those are the players ArenaNet is catering to: the grinders, farmers, addicts and exploiters who don’t care about a good game or about a good community, and rather are interested in seeking the activity with the best “gold:time spent” ratio. For those players, a new reward for mindless grind (what they call “dedication and effort”) is a plus; one that makes them more powerful, well, is perfect.

Ironically, I wonder how many of those players will leave when the next wave of MMORPGs arrives. Since they are not playing GW2 because they like GW2, rather because they want to farm, it’s to be expected that their loyalty to the game would be resumed at how willing they would be to let go of the stuff they farmed for.

The players who actually want to play GW2 – those who want a good story, a rich open world to explore, new and dynamic events, and so on – are not ArenaNet’s target audience right now, even if they would be the players less willing to jump ship from GW2 to other MMORPGs. Those players are the ones ArenaNet needs, but not the ones they deserve.

tolunart.2095:

TooBz.3065:

And I won’t shut up just because you think most people are fine with the change.

Neither will I, no matter how many people disagree with me.

Sure, but all you are saying (I think) is that people who hate ascended gear aren’t speaking for the majority. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I think you said that you were just going to ignore ascended weapons.

So you aren’t, afaik, actually defending them at all. Your just saying ANET knows best.

Oh, and that I’ve been kittening about ascended gear for months. Which is true.

tolunart.2095:

They study every aspect of the game carefully and consider changes based on how it will affect everyone, not just you.

I disagree with this statement. This game has been rife with blunders and errors since day 1. Remember the Lost Shores event? That wasn’t very well thought out. Remember when they added the loot boxes for world champs, then nerfed them when the market got flooded with ectos? Oops. Or take a look at the more recent addition of celestial stat gear crafting (with MF stats), followed closely by the announcement of the abolishment of the MF stat. Notice the history of PVE nerfs, due to PVP imbalance. I don’t think they study much, or consider much when it comes to how changes will affect players in this game. It all seems rather knee-jerk and reactionary to me. Just my $.02.

Here is one of the older posts – not sure why the Q & A was on Reddit. Anyway, peace all.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/

Spiral Architect.6540:

tolunart.2095:

They study every aspect of the game carefully and consider changes based on how it will affect everyone, not just you.

I disagree with this statement. This game has been rife with blunders and errors since day 1. Remember the Lost Shores event? That wasn’t very well thought out. Remember when they added the loot boxes for world champs, then nerfed them when the market got flooded with ectos? Oops. Or take a look at the more recent addition of celestial stat gear crafting (with MF stats), followed closely by the announcement of the abolishment of the MF stat. Notice the history of PVE nerfs, due to PVP imbalance. I don’t think they study much, or consider much when it comes to how changes will affect players in this game. It all seems rather knee-jerk and reactionary to me. Just my $.02.

2 week content push doesn’t leave much room for thinking /rollseyes

I’ve seen the thread, I don’t need to look for it.

“Handful” is a deliberately imprecise term. There is no number associated with it. In a game with 3-4 million potential players (accounts are almost never deleted, even if you stop logging in), a thousand people is a handful. Ten thousand is a handful.

I stop listening to any argument upon seeing the term “manifesto.” That’s about people swallowing the marketing hype and realizing that the devs are merely human. They had grand plans for the game that are not possible at the present time due to limitations of the technology used. A significant minority of people surely left the game at that time, over reasons that included but were not exclusively about Ascended gear. Some of them have returned, others did not.

What I am saying, and I say this with absolute certainty and confidence, is that the people in charge at Anet know a lot more about what is going on in their game than we do. And if their information had told them that:

Putting weapon skin claim tickets in RNG boxes
Changing the quantity/quality of rewards for enemy kills
Introducing new, improved gear

etc.

was going to harm the game more than help it, they would not do those things. People come and go within an MMO all the time. Just because an individual disagrees with a change does not mean it is a bad idea. It means that the individual has a choice before him: accept the change or play another game. Your account will still be here, so you can go away and play something else for six months, then come back to see if enough people disagreed with the changes to make an impact. If not, you make the same choice again, stay and accept it or go.

tolunart.2095:

stay and accept it or go.

I never thought I’d agree with a “this game may not be for you” post. But I think you may be right.

TooBz.3065:

tolunart.2095:

TooBz.3065:

And I won’t shut up just because you think most people are fine with the change.

Neither will I, no matter how many people disagree with me.

Sure, but all you are saying (I think) is that people who hate ascended gear aren’t speaking for the majority. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I think you said that you were just going to ignore ascended weapons.

So you aren’t, afaik, actually defending them at all. Your just saying ANET knows best.

Pretty much. Let me ask you something, should I buy a new car?

What kind of answer can you give me? You don’t know what car I drive. You don’t know what kind of car I want. You don’t know what I can afford.

I know the answer to those questions, but you don’t. Anet knows what is happening in their game, we don’t. So who is more qualified to make decisions about what to do with their game?

Lots of people argue that you’ll be able to use Exotic gear, but the small bonuses from Ascended gear add up.

With 6 pieces of armor, 5 trinkets, and 2 weapons there will be a significant difference between Exotic and Ascended sets of gear. If each piece makes your set 2% better, then all 13 pieces makes you 26% better!

As the OP said, this hurts build diversity and alts — especially in WvW, but also in PvE as mobs will be made 26% harder to compensate (which, of course means Ascended really will be a treadmill.)

tolunart.2095:

TooBz.3065:

tolunart.2095:

TooBz.3065:

And I won’t shut up just because you think most people are fine with the change.

Neither will I, no matter how many people disagree with me.

Sure, but all you are saying (I think) is that people who hate ascended gear aren’t speaking for the majority. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I think you said that you were just going to ignore ascended weapons.

So you aren’t, afaik, actually defending them at all. Your just saying ANET knows best.

Pretty much. Let me ask you something, should I buy a new car?

What kind of answer can you give me? You don’t know what car I drive. You don’t know what kind of car I want. You don’t know what I can afford.

I know the answer to those questions, but you don’t. Anet knows what is happening in their game, we don’t. So who is more qualified to make decisions about what to do with their game?

Sure, but I can say that new cars are always overpriced and a used one is a better value. I can say that, for me, a supercar is a waste of money since the speed limit tops about at 65 in most places, and I can say that I wouldn’t by a mini because my ego wouldn’t fit in one.

Spiral Architect.6540:

tolunart.2095:

They study every aspect of the game carefully and consider changes based on how it will affect everyone, not just you.

I disagree with this statement. This game has been rife with blunders and errors since day 1. Remember the Lost Shores event? That wasn’t very well thought out. Remember when they added the loot boxes for world champs, then nerfed them when the market got flooded with ectos? Oops. Or take a look at the more recent addition of celestial stat gear crafting (with MF stats), followed closely by the announcement of the abolishment of the MF stat. Notice the history of PVE nerfs, due to PVP imbalance. I don’t think they study much, or consider much when it comes to how changes will affect players in this game. It all seems rather knee-jerk and reactionary to me. Just my $.02.

A lot of changes are experimental, yes. The devs are, after all, human beings and don’t always understand that once the general mass of players get hold of something they may treat it differently than the devs do. But they are learning, and as someone else pointed out, the majority of players right now are traditional MMO types, who just want to kill stuff and collect treasure, and don’t much care about the story lines or lore behind the game, they just want new shinies to collect and new monsters to kill.

They are, in fact, giving the majority of players what they want.

Lord Kuru.3685:

With 6 pieces of armor, 5 trinkets, and 2 weapons there will be a significant difference between Exotic and Ascended sets of gear. If each piece makes your set 2% better, then all 13 pieces makes you 26% better!

No, that’s not how it works. Ascended gear is about 2% better per item – in other words the Ascended Sword is 2% better stats than the Exotic Sword. So if you have Ascended in every slot, your set is 2% better than someone with Exotic in every slot. If you only have Ascended in one slot, then your set is 0.15% better (2% x 1/13).

That of course assumes that Ascended is 2% better than Exotic, I haven’t checked the numbers myself.

tolunart.2095:

I’ve seen the thread, I don’t need to look for it.

Then you would know it isn’t a handful. You are belittling it.

I stop listening to any argument upon seeing the term “manifesto.” That’s about people swallowing the marketing hype and realizing that the devs are merely human. They had grand plans for the game that are not possible at the present time due to limitations of the technology used. A significant minority of people surely left the game at that time, over reasons that included but were not exclusively about Ascended gear. Some of them have returned, others did not.

The manifesto, regardless if you like or dislike, is what drove a lot of people to this game. That and from having played GW1. The selling point was no treadmill or grind for the never ending shiny object to make one keep close to the Jones.

was going to harm the game more than help it, they would not do those things. People come and go within an MMO all the time. Just because an individual disagrees with a change does not mean it is a bad idea. It means that the individual has a choice before him: accept the change or play another game. Your account will still be here, so you can go away and play something else for six months, then come back to see if enough people disagreed with the changes to make an impact. If not, you make the same choice again, stay and accept it or go.

Well if you read the thread then you would understand they didn’t expect the outcome they got. However, it was intended, it was already in the game code, and you simply can’t undo such a large change across all the code base. I think even you would agree this isn’t hello world we are talking about… They answered the questions, concerns, and asked people to wait it out. End result? I have no idea because they have the data, we don’t.

And actually you are correct. Anyone can take a break. But let me know how that goes when new content is coming out every 2 weeks. See, I do see your side of the debate. I just don’t agree with your assessment of only a few.

tolunart.2095:

LOL I’m not going anywhere. This isn’t a debate, the new gear (which hasn’t even been put into the game yet, congrats on pre-kittenstorming) isn’t going to be “fixed” because it’s what Anet wants it to be.

ANet wanted MF gear too, doesn’t mean it wasn’t in need of fixing.

No, that’s not how it works. Ascended gear is about 2% better per item – in other words the Ascended Sword is 2% better stats than the Exotic Sword. So if you have Ascended in every slot, your set is 2% better than someone with Exotic in every slot. If you only have Ascended in one slot, then your set is 0.15% better (2% x 1/13).

That of course assumes that Ascended is 2% better than Exotic, I haven’t checked the numbers myself.

Ascended weapons got both better stats, AND better base damage. When they “accidentally” released the ascended stats for legendaries back in November, we could see it meant around 8% more base weapon damage which translates exactly into 8% more direct damage DPS, before taking into account the extra power, precision and crit damage.

tolunart.2095:

I’ve seen the thread, I don’t need to look for it.

“Handful” is a deliberately imprecise term. There is no number associated with it. In a game with 3-4 million potential players (accounts are almost never deleted, even if you stop logging in), a thousand people is a handful. Ten thousand is a handful.

I stop listening to any argument upon seeing the term “manifesto.” That’s about people swallowing the marketing hype and realizing that the devs are merely human. They had grand plans for the game that are not possible at the present time due to limitations of the technology used. A significant minority of people surely left the game at that time, over reasons that included but were not exclusively about Ascended gear. Some of them have returned, others did not.

What I am saying, and I say this with absolute certainty and confidence, is that the people in charge at Anet know a lot more about what is going on in their game than we do. And if their information had told them that:

Putting weapon skin claim tickets in RNG boxes
Changing the quantity/quality of rewards for enemy kills
Introducing new, improved gear

etc.

was going to harm the game more than help it, they would not do those things. People come and go within an MMO all the time. Just because an individual disagrees with a change does not mean it is a bad idea. It means that the individual has a choice before him: accept the change or play another game. Your account will still be here, so you can go away and play something else for six months, then come back to see if enough people disagreed with the changes to make an impact. If not, you make the same choice again, stay and accept it or go.

Not always that straight forward, although you’ve a point.

Do I want to eat some McD now, or should I wait for a lobster dinner. Choices. And frankly many businesses focus on their quarterly earning and throw the long term view out the window. And that’s valid, to a degree. However finding the right balance is often the subject of intense debate .

From my PoV it’d be much better if ANET focused on the casuals. Promote horizontal, rather than vertical progression.

Regardless, ANET is a business, so they do what they have to do. For me I need to get on with my life and do something I enjoy, which the game is increasingly not. So it’s time to part ways, I had my fun, but now time to invest my time and money elsewhere.

tolunart.2095:

LOL I’m not going anywhere. This isn’t a debate, the new gear (which hasn’t even been put into the game yet, congrats on pre-kittenstorming) isn’t going to be “fixed” because it’s what Anet wants it to be.

They are going to do what they feel is best for the game, and have access to a great deal more info about the players than you or I. There’s nothing to talk about here, you just don’t like seeing the game grow and change. The point of playing an MMO is that it grows and changes.

Too bad their “growth” consists of regression to an earlier stage of MMO development. ANet is trying to appeal to everyone. This is a fool’s game. They now have a less innovative game than they had at launch.

Is Ascended what the majority wants? I don’t know. I doubt ANet knows. However, after all the accusations about “changing their design” for the game when Ascended was announced, I don’t believe they want to “change their revised design.” Too much of that and you look bad.

One thing is sure. There have been, and there will continue to be, complaints about Ascended, about the way it’s implemented, about build experimentation, and about gearing alts. There may be a few people out there happy with the whole package, the majority may not give a rat’s behind either way, but there are still going to be a significant group of people unhappy about Ascended.

As to the OP… fwiw, the suggestion is not terrible, but its implementation would not matter very much to me, as build diversity on the same character is not something that interests me. The fix I’d prefer would be that armor/weapons be attainable by other means than crafting and drops.

I have no faith that I will ever get an Ascended drop that I will want to equip. Hey, that is one positive about Ascended having switchable stats, though. Then I could change the Shaman’s stats on my hypothetical drops to something I actually want.

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

Lord Kuru.3685:

With 6 pieces of armor, 5 trinkets, and 2 weapons there will be a significant difference between Exotic and Ascended sets of gear. If each piece makes your set 2% better, then all 13 pieces makes you 26% better!

No, that’s not how it works. Ascended gear is about 2% better per item – in other words the Ascended Sword is 2% better stats than the Exotic Sword. So if you have Ascended in every slot, your set is 2% better than someone with Exotic in every slot. If you only have Ascended in one slot, then your set is 0.15% better (2% x 1/13).

That of course assumes that Ascended is 2% better than Exotic, I haven’t checked the numbers myself.

Ascended is about 8% better than exotics (stats only). Unless your a crit damage build, then it’s more. Edit: Also we don’t know how much more damage the weapon will do, or later how much armor the armor will have.

TooBz.3065:

Sure, but I can say that new cars are always overpriced and a used one is a better value. I can say that, for my, a supercar is a waste of money since the speed limit tops about at 65 in most places, and I can say that I wouldn’t by a mini because my ego wouldn’t fit in one.

Yes, you can tell me what you want, what you like. That’s what customers do. But when one person claims he speaks for everyone, that person is usually wrong.

I’m not saying that my way is the only way. I’m just saying that I believe that Anet knows more about what is going on than we do, and tossing out a kittenstorm about changes that have only just been announced is a bit premature. This direction that Anet is going in is certainly something that the majority of players either want, or are indifferent about. That a minority of players do not like it is inevitable. In a large group any change is going to met with some kind of opposition.

Consider their experiments with weapon claim tickets. If their research had led them to believe that putting tickets in BL chests would make people quit, or lead to a steep decrease in gem store sales, they would not have gone back to that model. I don’t have the numbers, but the relatively common Jade weapons and the number of Dragon Coffers still available on the TP tell me that more people farmed them in the game than bought them from the cash shop. So Anet probably lost money on them, and went back to their more successful model of selling them through BL chests, but with a modification learned from studying the data from several different methods.

People still make posts about how the chests are gambling and how evil Anet is for doing so – but it is undeniable that weapons like the Fused skins are more expensive, more demanded, and more prestigious than more common skins like the Jade weapons. Whether you or I like it doesn’t matter, Anet has the data and makes the decisions based on that data, not on what a few forum posters want.

How to fix ascended gear in one simple step:
Remove it from the game.

Problem is that you can’t even grind. How can i gear 6 characters (two of three specs every char) if you don’t even let us grind?

Crapgame.6519:

And actually you are correct. Anyone can take a break. But let me know how that goes when new content is coming out every 2 weeks. See, I do see your side of the debate. I just don’t agree with your assessment of only a few.

The pace of new content is irrelevant. If you don’t want to play, don’t play. I took a break from Lost Shores until Flame and Frost. Not because of anything that was introduced to the game, I just got bored with it and played other games for a while.

I missed Wintersday and Lost Shores and don’t care. I have skipped many of the LS updates because I couldn’t be bothered to run around the map clicking on things for an achievement. That’s not what I wanted to do, so I didn’t do it.

Right now I’m downloading a game that was just released today. I may take a break from GW2 for a bit to try something new, it was only $30 so I’ll give it a chance. I can play both games, or choose one and uninstall the other. If I miss the next few LS updates because I’m playing something else, it doesn’t bother me.

If you feel compelled to collect all the minis, the back pieces, the titles and achievements that come with the LS updates, that is entirely within you, it has nothing to do with the game. I pick up and put down games as I choose because it is my choice to play them or not.

tolunart.2095:

Crapgame.6519:

I do. They answered the original post. They designed the game that way and just blew it by not letting people know. Everyone (right or wrongly) went about the game has exotics and legendary weapons are it. Equal stats, different textures. Maybe the thread is still around, try a search. I mean, maybe that is why they gated the release? Maybe that is why they added the laurels? I don’t work there, I can only tell you what I recall from reading, and participating, in the thread.

I disagree. They’ve had ten months to study the reaction, how many people stopped logging in afterwards, how many returned since then, etc. I can’t imagine a meeting where something like this happens:

“According to our research, if we go ahead with plans to introduce new Ascended gear, approximately 40% of our current players will quit in disgust”

“Sounds great! The servers are too crowded anyway. Go ahead with the plan.”

There are a lot of people who are very vocal on the forums about hating the temp content and the pace of Living Story updates, too. But Anet hasn’t backed down from those plans, either.

The forums are naturally attractive to players with an axe to grind about something, and also tolls who just like to stir things up. I’ve been playing MMOs and reading the forums for over 2.5 years now, and EVERY change to the game brings a wave of outrage from people who seem to feel the devs made those changes just to kitten off those individual players.

They don’t spend months developing content on a whim, and they don’t change direction just because some manager who likes bunnies and unicorns declared that all new content will be bunny and unicorn related. They study every aspect of the game carefully and consider changes based on how it will affect everyone, not just you.

Actually the current release of gear and time gated everything points to the exact opposite. The numbers are out there and you can look at NC Soft Reports and Reports specifically on NC Soft to clearly see where GW2 is headed. 3 Million Copies sold Worldwide with an “Active” Player Base of around 500,000 Players. However they always manage to fluff the later number so its true Active Player Base is probably closer to 250,000 ~ 400,000 and most of these players are in Europe, not in the Americas. These numbers are not bad by any means but when you compare them to the Original Guild Wars that had an Active player base in the Millions one year after release you see why NC Soft and Top Anet Employees are concerned.

Anet has realized that they have failed in the West and are now focusing specifically on the Eastern Market in their game updates AND philosophies. Asian MMO’s are famous for their Grind and Time Consuming Content. Think of it as abandoning the ship, then the lifeboat, hoping to make it to that island in the distance and live as long as possible, maybe even get rescued. As it sits right now I don’t think NC Soft will provide funding for an expansion or an Add On Game to GW2.

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

Lord Kuru.3685:

With 6 pieces of armor, 5 trinkets, and 2 weapons there will be a significant difference between Exotic and Ascended sets of gear. If each piece makes your set 2% better, then all 13 pieces makes you 26% better!

No, that’s not how it works. Ascended gear is about 2% better per item – in other words the Ascended Sword is 2% better stats than the Exotic Sword. So if you have Ascended in every slot, your set is 2% better than someone with Exotic in every slot. If you only have Ascended in one slot, then your set is 0.15% better (2% x 1/13).

That of course assumes that Ascended is 2% better than Exotic, I haven’t checked the numbers myself.

Actually, someone in another thread, looking at amulets, said that the stat difference is 8% between two pieces, and thus fully Ascended would be 8% better than fully Exotic.

So my estimates are a bit too high, and yours a bit too low. In any case, I feel 8% is a significant difference — it’s a whole piece of gear. I don’t run around with broken armor (which is essentially losing one piece of gear)!

I’m not sure why everyone is up in arms about new ascended gear. The stat upgrades are minimal at best.

This would be a problem if this game had difficult PvE (except for high level fractals) where you HAD to get the very best gear in order to complete the content. That’s not a thing in GW2.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a huge fan of this going live either. I can see why Arena Net is doing this though. Players go nuts to get the best gear in game, even if they don’t truly need it (to complete content). This is going to force players that have this mentality to play daily.

The only actual problem that arises out of this is WvW where little stat upgrades could cause imbalance and force people to gear one character. I really, really hope that T7 mats drop from completing objectives there so those players have a viable option to gear up.

As for me, I’ll gradually work towards getting this gear. I do all content in this game, and I don’t feel like I’m shut out of any PvE content. I carry two sets of armor on my characters – Zerker and a set with 1 defense stat on it. I carry many weapons on my characters too. I don’t feel like I’m going to be forced to use a particular weapon/armor just because it’s ascended since I use these those for difference scenarios, not stats.

ProxyDamage.9826:

(2/2)
Simply make Ascended able to change stats outside of battle, like the new Legendary weapons can.

That’s exactly what Legendaries are, Ascended quality (stat wise) gear with the ability to change stats while out of combat. There is a good possibility that will get full Legendary gear someday (not just weapons) and that would be the true “endgame” gear.

I can’t even begin to mention how much I HATE, HATE, HATE, this release. Honestly, in my head I was hoping all of the ascended junk would be released towards the end of the year so I could quit then. Now I’m just considering the other games that are available now.

It was bad enough to ignore the ascended trinkets, but now the weapons will be too much. Not only will the base damage be higher, but it will also have higher stats of course and in combination with ascended trinkets, that’s quite a difference, especially in WvW. I won’t be able to gear my alts. I won’t be able to use a diverse selection of weapons. I won’t be able to alter my character’s builds. Maybe if the classes weren’t so linear I would be ok with 1 weapon and 1 character? Ugh.