Guild Wars 2

Instead of adding gear tiers, they should be focusing on making zerker builds obsolete and/or buff other armor builds.

It is not normal for any game (especially MMO) to have a single gear build as the only viable for running dungeons.

This is not fun anymore. Geez …

I’m pretty sure people run instances in other stats than zerker.

Scratch that, I know they do.

Have you played any other dungeon beside CoF?

My necro runs near full Rabid gear and kicks butt in WvW and does decently in dungeons. So not sure what you’re talking about.

That said, they did say they were adding new skills/traits. So perhaps non-zerker builds will be boosted to be more viable.

Nice job discriminating playstyles

I vote they nerf nothing. I would like them to fix condition damage by making it damage per tick times a number of ticks, i.e., damage by player rather than stacks on a mob. Once they fix how they manage condition damage, the viability of condition builds should approach those of direct damage builds.

Zerker is only run in CoF and Open World. Other places use a lot of variety of builds.

Zerker works in all dungeons :o

And it’s fine really. Tanks get mitigation gear, healers get healing power gear and DPS get DPS gear. There’s no tanks and no healers in this game so everyone should get zerk (or rampager for condition builds) once they become good.

What squishies will I be able to test potential damage on if you take zerker away :o

we will have new sets of skills and traits, we will see what happen after it will be implemented, what’s the reason to do it before?
so far berserker stats were great in some content and for some classes, maybe in the future diversity of stats will be as much appreciated.

edit: also getting rid of berserker stats may impact also you, what if you want to use them and they become completely useless for no reason? i don’t get the hate against the berserker gear (even though i’m not using those)

Don’t get rid of zerker, just make content that requires something other than DPS checks, and few but easy to avoid attacks that can be dodged everytime without viger.

Zerker will be more powerful than ever since we are getting ascended armor and power/crit chance/crit damage stack multiplicatively. If you ask me new ascended berserker gear should not add to any of those stats but add some vitality and toughness instead, since otherwise damage will be out of control (or add a cap to crit chance or damage).

At least cof farming will be dead with no more repeat rewards.

Jabberwock.9014:

Zerker will be more powerful than ever since we are getting ascended armor

This is only a wild theory on how Anet plans to kill theory own game. I would take this point seriously. If I did take it seriously, I would say to simply make power damage scale the same as condition damage, perhaps allow for conditions to crit, a new stat to multiply the effectiveness of conditions, simply scale condition damage better, or add diminishing returns to zerker stats.

Surbrus.6942:

Don’t get rid of zerker, just make content that requires something other than DPS checks, and few but easy to avoid attacks that can be dodged everytime without viger.

exactly, in pve all you need is zerker gear cause dps is the only viable set to run. the gw2 trinity was supposed to be dps, control, and support. but the thing is, it’s not necessary to run anything aside from dps.

Barret.4095:

exactly, in pve all you need is zerker gear cause dps is the only viable set to run. the gw2 trinity was supposed to be dps, control, and support. but the thing is, it’s not necessary to run anything aside from dps.

Or rather, there’s no gear that improves control and support so you might as well build them in DPS too.

All builds are viable, one build excels. Case closed.

You don’t solve the problem by killing zerker. People just bandwagon to the next fotm.

What you need to do is somehow find a way to make toughness and vit and healing power help. I’m thinking of something endurance related but it could be hard to balance.

Though tbh, if I wanted to be “forced” into anything, zerker isn’t too awful since that makes the pace faster and forces you to dodge more. Problem is when this feels like the only pace.

Jabberwock.9014:

Zerker will be more powerful than ever since we are getting ascended armor and power/crit chance/crit damage stack multiplicatively.

This.

In a game that almost always only relies on dodges/ active self-defense instead of party support and actual teamplay to beat content, full dps is king. The downed state also makes zerker builds even more viable, because there’s little to no risk running full dps as long as you can have a party member rez you out of downed.

ArchonWing.9480:

You don’t solve the problem by killing zerker. People just bandwagon to the next fotm.

What you need to do is somehow find a way to make toughness and vit and healing power help. I’m thinking of something endurance related but it could be hard to balance.

Though tbh, if I wanted to be “forced” into anything, zerker isn’t too awful since that makes the pace faster and forces you to dodge more. Problem is when this feels like the only pace.

you cant make toughness, vitality, or healing power viable in pve because the whole design of pvp is dodge to avoid damage, if your not taking any significant damage then why invest anything in defensive stats

Surbrus.6942:

Jabberwock.9014:

Zerker will be more powerful than ever since we are getting ascended armor

This is only a wild theory on how Anet plans to kill theory own game. I would take this point seriously. If I did take it seriously, I would say to simply make power damage scale the same as condition damage, perhaps allow for conditions to crit, a new stat to multiply the effectiveness of conditions, simply scale condition damage better, or add diminishing returns to zerker stats.

So instead of making every other kind of gear more appealing to use nerf the one kind of gear people like to use? Makes all kinds of sense to me.

Nerfing berserker builds/armor in any way won’t change the fact that other builds aren’t as effective as berserker. Nerfing doesn’t change the cause of the problem in any way.

Address that issue and then we’d be good, yeah?

ArchonWing.9480:

You don’t solve the problem by killing zerker. People just bandwagon to the next fotm.

What you need to do is somehow find a way to make toughness and vit and healing power help. I’m thinking of something endurance related but it could be hard to balance.

Though tbh, if I wanted to be “forced” into anything, zerker isn’t too awful since that makes the pace faster and forces you to dodge more. Problem is when this feels like the only pace.

Maybe there could be different emphases in each dungeon? Maybe have a DPS dungeon, a condition damage dungeon and so on? I’m thinking specifically of the different areas of the Underworld and FoW in GW1: you had some with heavy enchantment removal, others with lots of snares, and so on.

Clumsy.6257:

ArchonWing.9480:

You don’t solve the problem by killing zerker. People just bandwagon to the next fotm.

What you need to do is somehow find a way to make toughness and vit and healing power help. I’m thinking of something endurance related but it could be hard to balance.

Though tbh, if I wanted to be “forced” into anything, zerker isn’t too awful since that makes the pace faster and forces you to dodge more. Problem is when this feels like the only pace.

you cant make toughness, vitality, or healing power viable in pve because the whole design of pvp is dodge to avoid damage, if your not taking any significant damage then why invest anything in defensive stats

I thought they were gonna be balanced separately?

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

ArchonWing.9480:

You don’t solve the problem by killing zerker. People just bandwagon to the next fotm.

What you need to do is somehow find a way to make toughness and vit and healing power help. I’m thinking of something endurance related but it could be hard to balance.

Though tbh, if I wanted to be “forced” into anything, zerker isn’t too awful since that makes the pace faster and forces you to dodge more. Problem is when this feels like the only pace.

Maybe there could be different emphases in each dungeon? Maybe have a DPS dungeon, a condition damage dungeon and so on? I’m thinking specifically of the different areas of the Underworld and FoW in GW1: you had some with heavy enchantment removal, others with lots of snares, and so on.

Problem with that is once one gets accustomed to the instance, then maximizing damage will always be the first priority unless you make stuff undodgable which would be bad too.

ArchonWing.9480:

Clumsy.6257:

ArchonWing.9480:

You don’t solve the problem by killing zerker. People just bandwagon to the next fotm.

What you need to do is somehow find a way to make toughness and vit and healing power help. I’m thinking of something endurance related but it could be hard to balance.

Though tbh, if I wanted to be “forced” into anything, zerker isn’t too awful since that makes the pace faster and forces you to dodge more. Problem is when this feels like the only pace.

you cant make toughness, vitality, or healing power viable in pve because the whole design of pvp is dodge to avoid damage, if your not taking any significant damage then why invest anything in defensive stats

I thought they were gonna be balanced separately?

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

ArchonWing.9480:

You don’t solve the problem by killing zerker. People just bandwagon to the next fotm.

What you need to do is somehow find a way to make toughness and vit and healing power help. I’m thinking of something endurance related but it could be hard to balance.

Though tbh, if I wanted to be “forced” into anything, zerker isn’t too awful since that makes the pace faster and forces you to dodge more. Problem is when this feels like the only pace.

Maybe there could be different emphases in each dungeon? Maybe have a DPS dungeon, a condition damage dungeon and so on? I’m thinking specifically of the different areas of the Underworld and FoW in GW1: you had some with heavy enchantment removal, others with lots of snares, and so on.

Problem with that is once one gets accustomed to the instance, then maximizing damage will always be the first priority unless you make stuff undodgable which would be bad too.

meant pve but for some reason forums kept freezing up when i try to edit that post, and yes they are balanced separately in wvw and s/tpvp all stats are viable

Upvoting a post from Killcannon

I’m running around with almost full healing power, works great for me.

But yes, they should somehow fix the Berserker spree. Not with a nerf to the playstyle itself, but to make dungeons require more than just pure damage.

Perhaps making mobs a lot harder to stack up and AoE?

Wolfheart.1938:

Upvoting a post from Killcannon

Upvoting a post from Wolfheart….hell, I will upvote all your posts for the next two weeks.

sry but everyone has the right to play this game the way they want and if they want a zerker build, why not? the problem is just that especially in pve anything that isnt based n dps is kinda meh….in wvw its the conditions that rule, zerker builds die quickly in a zerg fght.

In my opinion most no skilled players build full zerker they are like “ohhhh power!!!!!” and in my experience, they slows down my party cus they die all the freaking time…

I was hoping for some announcement on this too.

They really just need to make Control and Support actually useful and find a fix for conditions so that they don’t lose a ton of damage if they hit the condi cap. Full DPS with Bezerker is perfectly fine as an option, but currently it’s the only good option for majority of classes, which is depressing to me.

I’d love to see some overarching mechanic changes that cause full support guardians pumping out heals for their whole party or terror necros using fear to keep their party safe.

They shouldn’t nerf zerk builds, they should buff support builds so that the healing/offensive support is so good that zerk parties will want them, like, make level for fury depending on your healing power, level 1 has 10% more, level 5 has 50% more, same thing for other buffs like might and protection and retaliation and quickness, and healing power increases boon duration, etc…

So tired of people asking for this. Don’t like zerker, don’t play zerker. Unless you go for speedrun dungeon groups you are not required to run zerker and it’s absolutely normal for speedrun groups to want the most dps. That will NEVER change.

All stats can be played if you know what you are doing, but there will always be situations in which ppl want most dps possible. TYaking the fast way out of the game will only make people stop playing, not switch to inferior stat combos and builds lol…

Bismuth.3165:

They shouldn’t nerf zerk builds, they should buff support builds so that the healing/offensive support is so good that zerk parties will want them, like, make level for fury depending on your healing power, level 1 has 10% more, level 5 has 50% more, same thing for other buffs like might and protection and retaliation and quickness, and healing power increases boon duration, etc…

Well here’s the problem with that idea-cof is the most frequently run dungeon (next in line is hotw I’d say) and berzerker functions a bit too well in those dungeons. You aren’t going to kill a mob by crippling him or using healing spells so in a situation like this, where the most frequently run dungeon (by most frequently I mean to the point where other dungeons are ghost towns comparatively) is super effective in bezerker gear and people are expecting an easy sub 10min run…why on earth would they take supporters that would only add to the time taken to complete it? Yes they may make the other dungeons easier to play…but those other dungeons aren’t getting played anyway. From what I understand even fractals at higher level is like that-you take so much damage you die from one hit anyway…might as well get zerks and hit hard before you go down.

However I like the nature of your suggestion, but I don’t think you can simply leave zerks alone and buff control/support for the reasons I outlined above-we need something that negatively affects zerks…and no, not flat out nerfs. Protection is a hell of a buff-giving more mobs long duration protection buffs will significantly reduce zerker’s effectiveness while the buff is up. Solution? Simple-remove the buff. Mesmers/Necros/certain Guardians (only professions I know of w/buff removal/corruption)…your time to shine-of course those classes won’t be necessary to complete the dungeon but it will make things go faster. Weakness is also devastating-what if mobs cast weakness on the party? Mesmer/Necro/Guardian/Warrior/Ranger/Ele enter stage right.

Also I think some form of role in dungeons that require specific skills would be good in the long run. Yes it will require the need of some classes with some skills but consider this-AC p1 final boss does a heavy three-pronged multi-directional projectile attack. For most classes this means you cannot dodge all the attacks but since they are projectiles, if you have a guardian/thief/mesmer/ele in the party they all have skills to defend the party against the attack. Yes it will require a profession w/projectile reflection but it’s one of four (half the professions have some anti-projectile skill) which is a lot better than trying to find that one healer from the 10 classes available that we all ran away from…but you must admit not having some form of role dependency took away something from dungeons.

Oops…ran a little off topic-zerkers need to be addressed I agree, but through the addition of mechanics that actually require support/control, not simple blanket nerfs to their damage/survivability.

Zerker is most fun to play because it has no defense. Which you can mitigate by dodging/using your skills correctly. The higher damage output is kind of a reward for mastering your skills
Saying that i don’t play zerker/rampager on all my alts. I love playing cleric on my guard/ele and I use carrion on my ranger because playing every class with zerker wouldn’t be fun.

Unless they add fights with frequent, undodgeable damage that requires high vitality or healing to mitigate, zerker will always be the best way to play. People who think they need defensive stats in other dungeons are usually just inexperienced or unskilled.

This video really sums it up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UUJTE1U_RsWh9Nl2hMZxMu5w&v=BBxStGB6-UE
(if you have 10 mins, it’s a really good watch)

Anyways, I think what the OP was saying, was that dungeons are very 1 dimensional and that’s what the video explains. Anet originally wanted a different version of the trinity focus on support/control/damage instead of tank/heal/DPS. They apparently gave up and now damage is all that’s required. We ended up with that awesome “defiant” ability and support means almost nothing while control is completely absent.

killcannon.2576:

I’m pretty sure people run instances in other stats than zerker.

Scratch that, I know they do.

Actually NO.
Unless they are subotpimal party.

You want at most 1 (only 1) support guardian to have vitality healing and stuff.
But other 4 MUST be zerker everywhere from arah to cof to fotm 48.

Mostly because the game is way easier in zerker.

What they should to is make it so PvE content is less hospitable to zerkers. Add a load of small hard to dodge attacks that pressure builds with no sustain. That and rework control and defiant. Make it so defiant doesn’t invalidate control.
Rather then having the bosses how we have them now, where they are damage sponges with powerful but easy to dodge attacks, they should make bosses pepper the field with many smaller attacks between the big attacks to make Support needed, and make them staggerable, perhaps giving them power moves that’d insta-wipe a zerker party, but are interuptable with control.

ArchonWing.9480:

You don’t solve the problem by killing zerker. People just bandwagon to the next fotm.

What you need to do is somehow find a way to make toughness and vit and healing power help. I’m thinking of something endurance related but it could be hard to balance.

Though tbh, if I wanted to be “forced” into anything, zerker isn’t too awful since that makes the pace faster and forces you to dodge more. Problem is when this feels like the only pace.

The solution is a specific monster skill:
- damage must one hit zerker gear players but allow people with toughness or vitality specc to survive.
- cooldown must be slightly longer than untraited endurance recharge
- most bosses should have a skill balanced around those two magic numbers, eg kholer pull, lupicus aoe, norn charge, …

It still allows zerker gear with perfect play, but missing one dodge will have them on the ground doing zero dps. It’ll kill zerker pugs yet won’t impact guild teams (since they know the quality of their team)

hey guys where’s teh negative or downvote button?

Empressium.5482:

hey guys where’s teh negative or downvote button?

Heh. Only moderators have them.

Or simply revamp some mobs my reducing their health bar and increasing their toughness so they are more vulnerable to condition damage instead of direct damage.

Zerker gear isn’t the problem. It is a game mechanic problem. That’s been stated more than a few times. Your hate for zerkers is misplaced. You should be hating Anet for making DPS king if anything.

Minos.3450:

Or simply revamp some mobs my reducing their health bar and increasing their toughness so they are more vulnerable to condition damage instead of direct damage.

makes sense. And remove defiant.

marnick.4305:

Minos.3450:

Or simply revamp some mobs my reducing their health bar and increasing their toughness so they are more vulnerable to condition damage instead of direct damage.

makes sense. And remove defiant.

Though I agree they should do something to make cc more viable, they simply can’t remove defiant because boss would simply be chain cced to death without any chance to do something.

Minos.3450:

marnick.4305:

Minos.3450:

Or simply revamp some mobs my reducing their health bar and increasing their toughness so they are more vulnerable to condition damage instead of direct damage.

makes sense. And remove defiant.

Though I agree they should do something to make cc more viable, they simply can’t remove defiant because boss would simply be chain cced to death without any chance to do something.

Actually…..that might require a little more effort than a zerker build spamming 1 with their face on the keyboard.

Zindrix.1750:

Minos.3450:

marnick.4305:

Minos.3450:

Or simply revamp some mobs my reducing their health bar and increasing their toughness so they are more vulnerable to condition damage instead of direct damage.

makes sense. And remove defiant.

Though I agree they should do something to make cc more viable, they simply can’t remove defiant because boss would simply be chain cced to death without any chance to do something.

Actually…..that might require a little more effort than a zerker build spamming 1 with their face on the keyboard.

Seriously, you guys know they can only do that in CoF 1 right?

Just put a boss and mob at each dungeon that is almost immune to normal damage and takes 300% damage from conditions. Make sure this boss/mob is unskippable.

OP no need to worry… they are nerfing CoF soon….

ascended gear makes wvw stats ridiculous, not only zerk gear but everything. it doesn’t help that you get different kind of ascended gear since stats are just insanely unbalanced for any kind of pvp.

killcannon.2576:

I’m pretty sure people run instances in other stats than zerker.

Scratch that, I know they do.

Yet they are, often on this forum, called out as “incompetent”.

I’d like to see an actual need for other stat combinations to come into play. I’d like a reason for someone to play a more supportive role. Currently that reason just doesn’t really exist.