Guild Wars 2

Seek and ye shall find.

I think this is intended to serve the purpose the top post was requesting.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/chris-whiteside-on-the-lost-shores-and-beyond/

Sumii.2845:

As the title states, I would implore ArenaNet to give us a ‘sum up’ of all their discussions back in the Dev’s room; ie: any discussions as to the state of affairs from recent events, a change of direction?, a misunderstanding, etc. etc.

I ask this because I believe by being silent or relying on week old vague and circular statements they are doing more damage than any sort of good.

(1/2)

100% agree OP.

Silence is one of several PR tactics when a customer uproar occurs. The intent is to let people get it out of their systems. The hope is that it will not do significant or long-term damage to the product, brand or company.

The problem with the tactic in the digital age is that people have found many ways to express themselves. You have so many popular sites like Facebook, Youtube to share feedback. I personally think that this PR tactic is a mistake.

Arenanet may also be:
1. Stunned at the degree of uproar on their forums and other sites including retailers.
2. Trying to come up with a public statement that diminishes the damage and does not cause more of an uproar.

This one is tricky. Because it is not just about introducing new gear and having serious problems in the November content launch. They have been asked to explain their radical change in product design and undermining of their game vision.

What statement could they make for that?

“We have realized that everything that Mike O’Brien, Arenanet President, has been saying for 7 years about how to make a "different and better MMO’ is incorrect. We have decided that he was wrong – gear stat progression is required in any MMORPG. Mike now sees the error of his ways and agrees. We also have statistical evidence that the “dedicated players (gear grinders)” spend tons in the cash shop and love buying items based on RNG mechanics."

dalendria.3762:

“We have realized that everything that Mike O’Brien, Arenanet President, has been saying for 7 years about how to make a "different and better MMO’ is crap. We have decided that he was wrong – gear stat progression is required in any MMORPG. Mike now sees the error of his ways and agrees. We also have statistical evidence that the “dedicated players (gear grinders)” spend tons in the cash shop and love buying items based on RNG mechanics."

Have i to be honest?
If they say something like this, i will be very happy, even it will mean that i will leave the game instatly.

We just got it and I hope you like the answers. No problems a few hiccups with the live events but everything is wonderful and perfect.
We hold a vested interest in this game and its company via the Gem shop. That is our investment.We like to see returns – when people see deviations from that they get upset and worried.
when told like today there is no problem so go away – It may get worse.
I would at least have respect if he did come out and say ya I sold out eat it. see that little red x in the corner use it. – I would say great I understand the motivation.

Sumii.2845:

Why should we (ArenaNet) care:

• Aside from losing consumers you’re damaging any future legacy your brand name might have. I am a Marketing & Brand Developer. I work in progressing my brand’s name and making sure that it’s outlook in the future is improved. By jeopardizing your brand’s image you are liable to lose any future chance of new consumers or old consumers giving you a second chance.
  (2/2)

Thank you Sumii. I have been trying to point out that this is a brand image and product design issue. I did not want to post my professional background but like you I have experience in product development. I also have experience in strategic planning and enterprise software implementation.

I believe that Arenanet reads the forums. So I am hoping they will listen to your concerns. Even if they do neither, I hope that their Marketing department and CFO are meeting about this. The worse thing they can do right now is assume its just “whiney” gamers complaining and therefore, ignore it.

This is about brand loyalty, customer retention and sustainable profitability.

Personally I have enough faith in them I don’t need a statement to reassure me of…well anything really.

As far as ascended gear I don’t see what all the complaining is about really, there was already stat progression ingame. Would I rather see cosmetic gear over stat gear? Maybe. But just because there is another tier of gear doesn’t mean you HAVE to get it or you’ll be cut out of 98% of content. Just like if you don’t have full exotics doesn’t mean you can’t run AC exp etc in greens. Does it make it easier? sure but it’s hardly required. The only place ascended gear is sort of required is high tier fractals and while it is a gear gate I’m ok with it since you can still experience the dungeons and get a decent amount of loot from the lower tiers if you are a casual and still gives something for the hardcore grinder.

I’ve seen quite a few WvW players in particular complaining about having to pve to get ascended gear be able to compete. And while the first 3 items are obtained by pve they have also said afaik that there would be ways to acquire them in WvW but they are working on revamping WvW rewards as a whole right now
and I do expect them to be obtainable without pve. So long as the time to acquire them is consistent with the pve method I don’t see a huge problem.

As for the Lost Shore event, while it wasn’t perfect(loot was too rich from the chest,non US players got the short end of the stick abit,and lag was an issue at points) I give them credit, they tried something new, not everyone loved it but they put it out there and got to see what works and what doesn’t, I’d rather they do that then release the exact same type of content over and over till it’s mind-numbingly stale.

In the end I feel they do enough to communicate to not be alienated from the players. Some games I’ve played you’ll never hear an answer from a dev about anything… ever. I’d rather they spend their time working on the game then spending their time on the forums responding to every single post, holding peoples hand telling them it’s all going to be alright and that they are working on a build that will magically solve everyone’s concerns and are actually accomplishing almost nothing. Oh and lets be real, the majority of people who post on the forums not just in this game but every game are the vocal minority. If devs did everything the average forum poster wanted they would hand out 1000g for logging in and every class would have a 10000range aoe oneshot :p

bojangles.6912:

LMAO. Sorry to laugh @OP but “imploring” Anet to post in the forums or anywhere on the site about a discussion they had behind closed doors along with the devs is just hilarious. Who in their right mind would even ask this knowing kitten well no company would ever do such things. They could tell us why they went this route and felt the need to lie to us, but to ask on the forums for closed door discussion with the devs too just shows you how well people think.

Any time a big decision is made, say Creating a mini-expansion like the Lost Shores the Devs & teams have multiple meetings about what it will entail and what their ultimate focus is. The ultimate focus being what they want the players (consumers) to take away from this. That is ALWAYS relayed to the players via PR statements, teasers, etc. from the Marketing team. So yes things from behind closed doors DO get sent out to the public once it’s refined and thought out. THAT is what I was asking for. I hope I worded it right originally and it seems for the most part that I did, but I’m sorry you might have mistook me for saying that every intricate detail, secret, caveat that goes on beyond closed doors should be transparent to the consumers.

mulch.2586:

Seek and ye shall find.

I think this is intended to serve the purpose the top post was requesting.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/chris-whiteside-on-the-lost-shores-and-beyond/

Unfortunately, I think you’re right. It is an answer so to speak, but it is completely devoid for the most part of addressing the issues at hand. But to be positive, it was nice for a more lengthier than brief blog post to be posted. It at least takes away from the hastily and rather short messages or lack thereof we’ve been receiving. Perhaps, there will be more to come of it. I can only hope.

dalendria.3762:

Sumii.2845:

As the title states, I would implore ArenaNet to give us a ‘sum up’ of all their discussions back in the Dev’s room; ie: any discussions as to the state of affairs from recent events, a change of direction?, a misunderstanding, etc. etc.

I ask this because I believe by being silent or relying on week old vague and circular statements they are doing more damage than any sort of good.

(1/2)

100% agree OP.

Silence is one of several PR tactics when a customer uproar occurs. The intent is to let people get it out of their systems. The hope is that it will not do significant or long-term damage to the product, brand or company.

The problem with the tactic in the digital age is that people have found many ways to express themselves. You have so many popular sites like Facebook, Youtube to share feedback. I personally think that this PR tactic is a mistake.

Arenanet may also be:
1. Stunned at the degree of uproar on their forums and other sites including retailers.
2. Trying to come up with a public statement that diminishes the damage and does not cause more of an uproar.

This one is tricky. Because it is not just about introducing new gear and having serious problems in the November content launch. They have been asked to explain their radical change in product design and undermining of their game vision.

What statement could they make for that?

“We have realized that everything that Mike O’Brien, Arenanet President, has been saying for 7 years about how to make a "different and better MMO’ is incorrect. We have decided that he was wrong – gear stat progression is required in any MMORPG. Mike now sees the error of his ways and agrees. We also have statistical evidence that the “dedicated players (gear grinders)” spend tons in the cash shop and love buying items based on RNG mechanics."

&

Ganzo.5079:

Have i to be honest?
If they say something like this, i will be very happy, even it will mean that i will leave the game instatly.

This. Very much this. My point being that an open and honest answer whether it is favorable or not to people is something that many people can respect. It let’s them know that the game is either going the way they’d like or changing into something they’d no longer be a part of. Would this mean they’d shed some possible consumers in the gem shop? Absolutely. But it would ensure that their main player base was on the level with the Dev team and backing / supporting them.

(1/2)

Narkosys.5173:

We just got it and I hope you like the answers. No problems a few hiccups with the live events but everything is wonderful and perfect.
We hold a vested interest in this game and its company via the Gem shop. That is our investment.We like to see returns – when people see deviations from that they get upset and worried.
when told like today there is no problem so go away – It may get worse.
I would at least have respect if he did come out and say ya I sold out eat it. see that little red x in the corner use it. – I would say great I understand the motivation.

Again, I’m afraid that it might be the only answer, but I’ll hope that there is more to come. Perhaps once all the surveys are in.

FFXIV, a game that failed horribly in its initial release, held on for dear life and has struggled for two years. In that time the player base who once deserted it had started coming back in droves. Square Enix learned that player input was paramount when coinciding OR going against their vision or wishes. They began holding constant POLLs based on what they were planning on doing to rectify the situation. Yoshi P stepped on board and began having ‘Letters from the Producer’ constantly to let people know the state of affairs and the direction they were planning.

Since then the servers are now offline and being changed for a re-release of 2.0 A Realm Reborn. And to be honest, it looks very promising. It’s amazing what SE has been able to do to gather support from shunned customers. But it started with them being frank and honest. In that case it was with them admitting they released a product that was glitchy/buggy and didn’t match the vision or product presented to audiences.

(2/2)

Huck.1405:

Sumii.2845:

By jeopardizing your brand’s image you are liable to lose any future chance of new consumers or old consumers giving you a second chance.

I can agree with that. There’s 3 companies who’ve made MMOs that I will never have anything to do with again….Funcom, (Age of Conan)

So Anet had best not do like those companies did because a lot of people will remember.

You are now about the 10th person I have read who refuses to ever buy a Funcom product again. I did not personally like The Secret World, played in beta, but thought many did. Then Funcom announced that box sales were lower than expected (about 200,000).

I was surprised and was curious as to some of the reasons. My net search led me to many posts where people mentioned that they hated Funcom products because of the mess they made with another MMO years ago. Someone on this forum told me it was Age of Conan.

Consumers never forget and rarely forgive when they feel betrayed or deceived.

I believe a formal apology is in order.

First off I am glad the OP made it clear that most in the forums would agree. For my nearly two decades of being a player of these games. I know without qustion that means less then 5% of those actually playing the game.

Second; Anet has made an offical statement. Unfortunately they did not adress ascending armor.

Third; we got a survey in our emails. If you didn’t answer it then it is like voting. If you didn’t bother you have no say so

XRTDiablo.9321:

… snipped only because I keep hitting the 5001 character limit.

In the end I feel they do enough to communicate to not be alienated from the players. Some games I’ve played you’ll never hear an answer from a dev about anything… ever. I’d rather they spend their time working on the game then spending their time on the forums responding to every single post, holding peoples hand telling them it’s all going to be alright and that they are working on a build that will magically solve everyone’s concerns and are actually accomplishing almost nothing. Oh and lets be real, the majority of people who post on the forums not just in this game but every game are the vocal minority. If devs did everything the average forum poster wanted they would hand out 1000g for logging in and every class would have a 10000range aoe oneshot :p

While I disagree that the majority of players on the forums are the vocal minority, I nor you have facts to back it up. It’s really all hearsay and without the company letting us know survey results and how they line up with forums, its really anybody’s guess.

However, that being said – you are most definitely right. If a company did everything that everyone whined about it would be a disaster. As I said originally you can never please every one. But a great number of people have let’s say complained about precursors and their cost. This past event had a suddenly higher chance to get a precursor. Did everyone get one? No. Was there enough of an effect to change the economy and possibly cause artificial inflation? I would say yes, but that’s my opinion and it hasn’t been long enough to see the results of such an ordeal.

The issue really at hand is communication. As I just posted in another thread about a similar topic, in this day and age for a company to disregard communication with it’s consumers, irregardless if its the answer they want to hear, does not bode well for the company’s survival.

There are all sorts of MMOs out there. They all have forums and their own niches. Simply putting out TV/Radio/Magazine ads is not enough to pull a large enough base away from one group or another. You have to sell service. You have to sell quality. And you have to mean it. Once someone discovers that you’re an empty shell of promises or statements, you lose all credibility. It is extremely hard to recover from this – as any number of recent failed MMOs should be evident.

I hate social networking. Loathe it. I want to delete my FaceBook, LinkedIn, etc. like you have no idea. From a personal standpoint its fine. From a business standpoint its suicide. The more connections you have to your consumers, not just to sell your product, but to interact with them, brings more leverage your way. It makes you more appealing and it builds your case. I do this on a daily basis for a living. Its something a lot of business owners don’t like to hear, but in extremely competitive markets (can you really think of something more competitive than video games) you have to prove your case. You should jump at every facet of that.

Mimizu.7340:

to paraphrase Herac-l-i-tus (forum filter hates ancient greeks):

He doesn’t mind if you call him Herakittenus.

I was at my campus in college of business and this quote was posted everywhere reminding the future business employees/entrepreneurs about our future.

“Sometimes when you innovate, you make mistakes. It is best to admit them quickly, and get on with improving your other innovations.”
-Steve Jobs-

Hawks.5736:

Gilandred.9870:

The blog post just put up by Chris Whiteside said nothing about the controversy with ascended gear. He rather just confirmed they are continuing to work on progression. The die is cast.

But he did say theyll be doing a lot of Q&A’s soon. I think the first one is about PvP though.

Chris has just posted that he will be doing an AMA on Reddit on Monday at 12 PST.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

Hi All,
Thanks for your feedback we really appreciate it. I would like to take the opportunity to answer your questions in an AMA on Reddit on Monday 26th (12pm PST- More details to follow) to talk about recent updates to the game and our philosophy for Guild Wars 2 moving forward.
Please keep in mind that there we are about to begin the Thanksgiving holiday in the US and are out of the office (and likely in game) until Monday. Happy Holidays everyone!
Chris

Original thread is here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/AMA-with-Chris-Whiteside-on-Monday-November-26/827481

Now THAT looks extremely promising. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that Monday provides some insight and answers. Good job ArenaNet!

Gah! i am gonna be at work, missing this one-time event!

i guess because i do not have facebook or twitter accounts, i am missing out on some good info. i thought that the OFFICIAL forums would be a great source of info, besides all the other positive and negative threads.

Just a little thought about them having meeting about this…..

Shouldn’t they have done that before the decision?

I mean come on anyone could have seen what was going to happen as soon as they decided to do it. They should have been ready to explain themselves well before now.

Sumii.2845:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

Hi All,
Thanks for your feedback we really appreciate it. I would like to take the opportunity to answer your questions in an AMA on Reddit on Monday 26th (12pm PST- More details to follow) to talk about recent updates to the game and our philosophy for Guild Wars 2 moving forward.
Please keep in mind that there we are about to begin the Thanksgiving holiday in the US and are out of the office (and likely in game) until Monday. Happy Holidays everyone!
Chris

Original thread is here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/AMA-with-Chris-Whiteside-on-Monday-November-26/827481

Now THAT looks extremely promising. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that Monday provides some insight and answers. Good job ArenaNet!

Nice! I’m not sure I’ll be able to follow it live, but I’ll certainly have a look at it the day after. Now, I guess we all just have to hold our breath while anxiously waiting for an answer to the big question: “Will the future direction of GW2 be the game I want to play or not?”

Sumii, +1 for your original posts, very well written!

Edit: I sincerely hope they’ll post a write-up either in the forums or as a blog post. As that is kind of the “official” information channel, you know ;-)

I have been in map chat, in LA, LFG for a lvl 5 run for 30 minutes. I see people way further than lvl 5. I AM being left behind. I cannot find a group. It IS peak hours. My fear is a reality. It is justified. I cannot get a group by conventional means, without a guild, which most of them are probably in the same boat(10 +). I am writing this, and then I will log into WoW to try out their new endgame content, since I hit 90 today.

I also want to say the following:

First, I agree with the OP fully.

Second, I cannot understand why this thread is not locked and the OP is not infracted. I’ve created more benign threads as of recently, which have been merged/locked/modified and Ive been infracted (notabley my thread titled “Do they have the resources” which was formerly named “Does Arenanet have the resources”. I was infracted for including Arenanet in the title. Interesting.

“We’re very excited about the new content, and from the reactions we have seen, so are many of you. Players have already spent an incredible amount of time in the new Fractals dungeon, and their reaction to it has been phenomenal.” -Chris Whiteside

That’s clear enough of an answer for me. This is about as “phenomenal” as LOTRO’s radiance system or Warhammer’s ward system. Remind me, what happened to those games again?

Sumii.2845:

But a great number of people have let’s say complained about precursors and their cost. This past event had a suddenly higher chance to get a precursor. Did everyone get one? No. Was there enough of an effect to change the economy and possibly cause artificial inflation? I would say yes, but that’s my opinion and it hasn’t been long enough to see the results of such an ordeal.

Currency exchange has gone up ~20s or more since the event as of earlier today. I can’t be more specific as the exchange is down for me atm. The random nature of the rewards would have almost ensured that a significant portion of the recipients would be the sort of player that would “blow it” rather than just legendary/ascended grinders. I don’t think I’d be overreaching if I said those players were more likely to blow it on gems and t3 armor above most other things.

Masterful economy manipulation? Maybe. But I am a cynic with a serious distaste for Korean F2P models and a much higher gold→gems conversion worries me, especially with hints of the gem store taking a more integral role in gameplay in the future. And if they’re intentionally causing inflation, while also reducing our ability to make gold… meh.

Ditton.3149:

Huck.1405:

Sumii.2845:

By jeopardizing your brand’s image you are liable to lose any future chance of new consumers or old consumers giving you a second chance.

I can agree with that. There’s 3 companies who’ve made MMOs that I will never have anything to do with again due to their outright lies to their customer base, endless unkept promises, misrepresenting game content, and totally ignoreing input from play testers when updates were being tested. UBISOFT, (Shadowbane) Funcom, (Age of Conan) And Bioware. (Star Wars, the Old Republic)

So Anet had best not do like those companies did because a lot of people will remember.

man I knew Asher and Wolfpack aka Stray Bullet games when they were in Austin Tx with Shadowbane. They wanted to do all kinds of things to the game, but their publisher Ubisoft didnt want to give them the money to do any of it…including more servers, better balancing etc..though honestly at its end..that game was one of the best balanced and most awesome pvp centric ever, people are STILL trying to recreate the code in a newer engine.

No, UBI did it to themselves.

If you played Shadowbane, you’ll remember another bad move on UBI’s part. They continuously beefed up spellcasters and gave then levitaion abilities to where meleers could’nt touch them and endlessly nerfed weapons fighters to the point that weapons fighters didnt stand a chance against spellcasters. Which earned SB the nickname “Casterbane”. When meleers started using throwing weaps so that they could get at the endlessly levitating spellcasters, UBI reduced the range of throwing weaps. It’s like UBI only wanted spellcasters and rogues playing the game, and that’s what it ended up being in SBs last years.

Showing preference to a specific class type over all others is a surefire way to lose customers and kill a MMO as UBI demonstrated with Shadowbane.

Gilandred.9870:

Anet has already demonstrated that they are not interested in debating or discussing these issues further. They closed other threads, including the “big one,” without so much as a clarifying comment. That’s who they are, and if you thought otherwise, their actions have now spoken louder than words.

Sadly. I agree. Reminiscent of SoE’s “working as inteneded”. Brings back memories.

hold on to your ankles we are in for a ride.

mulch.2586:

Seek and ye shall find.

I think this is intended to serve the purpose the top post was requesting.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/chris-whiteside-on-the-lost-shores-and-beyond/

Unfortunately, that’s not true. The post does not address several important points at all. The topic about this blog news is being censored, with posts on ascended eq controversy being removed without even informing their authors.

Apparently Anet does not wish to have any real discussion on the matter and would prefer to bury all evidence.

Such a shame, I’ve seen this happen to so many games in the passed and after reading all the build up towards the game it seemed guildwars had strong guidelines which now their doing a U turn on.

At some point they will have to reply to the forums but can’t they understand with every passing day their brand is getting damaged an poeple are losing faith in them?

Sumii.2845:

• Aside from losing consumers you’re damaging any future legacy your brand name might have. I am a Marketing & Brand Developer. I work in progressing my brand’s name and making sure that it’s outlook in the future is improved. By jeopardizing your brand’s image you are liable to lose any future chance of new consumers or old consumers giving you a second chance.

This is huge for me. I went from preparing to submit my portfolio to Anet to looking elsewhere. Not only have they damaged their image, they’ve hurt their studio’s image.

It is that bad. The mishandling of this PR kittenstorm is beyond me. Is Nexon holding one arm behind their back?

Who knows, but it is terrible to behold.

+1 to OP, well written, Sumii.

I just don’t get it, how they seem to not know about the PR-desaster, since cause it can’t be silenced. hell, anet is an IT-company, and not a cart-horse-seller from the 18th century, anet should know about inet and stuff…^^

Thank you Sumii- that is a very clear breakdown of the issues and I agree with it 100%
We can only hope that we do get a clear statement since it would go some way toward re-establishing good will

I’m not going to beat around the bush, simply because it is already tragically evident that the community is no longer as welcoming and friendly as it once was. Already, simply by looking at some of the responses in this very thread there is a strange attitude of ‘if you dislike the change, just leave’.

Why? Why should we depart when we were promised that the product we bought would be as we desired? In fact, for the first few months the game did deliver on that front. Now, it has changed substantially and the least Arena Net can do is give some solid, no-nonsense answers as to what exactly their stance is.

+1 to original poster.

And i very much doubt that Anet is going to come forward with any reasonable answers which is a shame because i had such high hopes for this game.

Let’s just wait out the Reddit interview shall we? It may put us at ease. At the very least, it may get some of our questions answered.

dalendria.3762:

This one is tricky. Because it is not just about introducing new gear and having serious problems in the November content launch. They have been asked to explain their radical change in product design and undermining of their game vision.

What statement could they make for that?

“We have realized that everything that Mike O’Brien, Arenanet President, has been saying for 7 years about how to make a "different and better MMO’ is incorrect. We have decided that he was wrong – gear stat progression is required in any MMORPG. Mike now sees the error of his ways and agrees. We also have statistical evidence that the “dedicated players (gear grinders)” spend tons in the cash shop and love buying items based on RNG mechanics."

I agree it’s very tricky. I wonder what we will see in the AMA on Monday.

A) "Due to this and that, it has been necessary for us to change the direction of our initial design philosophy. "
This wouldn’t improve on their damaged brand at all. People would still feel betrayed. Bad strategy, that is not saving any of the lost brand equity.

B) “We do not think our philosophy of creating a great game has changed.”
The strategy of plain denial. People would feel even more angry. No one will buy into this – it will feel like a slap in the face.
This would be the worst strategy, further increasing brand damage.

C) “We admit our mistakes of this and that, and we are working to implement a solution that will make everyone happy. Further details will follow.”
This strategy would be a better choice. It will buy them some time. People will await their “solution”. The future however will reveal what course they are actually taking.

What do you think we will see?

(EDIT) Actually it just came to my mind – they could also choose following option.

D) Not touching the issue at all. “What problem? There is no problem.”
I guess this is somewhat similar to option B.

Wow, I went to sleep and missed a considerable amount of replies. (I fell asleep during Jormag event too darnit)

First and foremost, I’m going to hold ANY criticism until after Monday’s Reddit bit. Chris Whitesdale specifically mentioned the direction the company is going and the philosophy behind it. You can call me naive by saying that I believe they’ll respond to that, but the post put on their news & announcements seems to be a clear and resounding reply to exactly what I made this post in regards to.

Secondly, again – as much as I would LOVE for their replies and answers to be what >> I << want personally, I also understand that I am but one person. I might be a part of a consensus or not in what I want and personally I just want the formal answer. It will let me know if I want to continue playing the game or not. It will also as it so happens let me know if I need to call my friend Sven and tell him to purchase the game. As I told ArenaNet in the survey, I don’t recommend things to people until I’m comfortable with them and know full well that it will not blemish my opinion in the sight of my friends or peers. As it stood at the time, Guild Wars 2 was NOT in that shape. However, that is for the survey bit and not for this post.

I am not a glass half full or a glass half empty kind of person. I am a there’s just enough room for alcohol in that glass type of person (I cannot remember who said this, but it applies perfectly to me). I will wait until Monday (kittentail in hand) and see where things lie. I think as it stands that is all we can do as a whole. After an official announcement that is indeed to set the record straight it serves no purpose to continue bickering, complaining, praising, or any other discussion of the Devs, ArenaNet, and their practices.

Let’s just wait until Monday. (fingers crossed)

First of +1 for the OP!

dalendria.3762:

Huck.1405:

Sumii.2845:

By jeopardizing your brand’s image you are liable to lose any future chance of new consumers or old consumers giving you a second chance.

I can agree with that. There’s 3 companies who’ve made MMOs that I will never have anything to do with again….Funcom, (Age of Conan)

So Anet had best not do like those companies did because a lot of people will remember.

You are now about the 10th person I have read who refuses to ever buy a Funcom product again. I did not personally like The Secret World, played in beta, but thought many did. Then Funcom announced that box sales were lower than expected (about 200,000).

I was surprised and was curious as to some of the reasons. My net search led me to many posts where people mentioned that they hated Funcom products because of the mess they made with another MMO years ago. Someone on this forum told me it was Age of Conan.

Consumers never forget and rarely forgive when they feel betrayed or deceived.

I too am one of those that have refused to buy any games coming out of Funcom, and for same reason… AoC. I played it and haven’t forgotten it this many years later. The same goes for Vanguard (Sigil/SoE), SW:TOR (Bioware/AE), WAR (Mythic/EA) and now ANet is on that list too.

For the same mentioned reasons. They went back on their words, lied or twisted truths and screwed their customers over good and hard. I doubt that I will willingly go back to play any of their games again in the future from what I have seen when it come handling of the fan and player base.

Somethings just sticks too deep, and makes it harder for a brand to return a following to, once they startdown that slippery slope. Not that it can’t be done, just that it takes a lot of work to regain tha trust once more.

Trust is like an eraser. It gets smaller and smaller with every mistake you make…..

Today is the day we find out if the Reddit session is the moment we’ve been waiting for. fingers crossed

UnderdogSMO.9428:

thay have had one (actualy 2) but it dosnt say what you guys want to hear. Get over it

did it say what YOU wanted to hear?

Reading the post from Chris Whiteside, with all the emphasys on continuing to create content similar to fractals, it seems a large amount of people really appreciate this expansion so they will continue to build similar content.

As for the handful of people protesting in the forums, go ahead and make your lawsuits (sad really), ask refunds or whatever.
Threatening to do it in the forums has zero crediblity.

While I can appreciate your opinion, please read the entirety of my first post before de-railing this thread. This thread is not about Ascended gear or Fractals. There is already a number of threads out there in regards to that. This post is in regards to policies, marketing & branding, etc.

Thanks!

Red Falcon.8257:

Reading the post from Chris Whiteside, with all the emphasys on continuing to create content similar to fractals, it seems a large amount of people really appreciate this expansion so they will continue to build similar content.

I seriously doubt that much player appreciate what they did with the FotM dungeon. Most feedback that can be found across the internet is negative. Yes, the individual fractals are fun – no doubt here – but as a whole the dungeon and especially the reward system connected to it is an epic fail.

They do a lot of communicating with us. More so then quite a few other MMOs out there. Even with that I doubt they will tell us their secret meetings and plans. No company does this.

Its the holidays in the US. mid November until January 2nd people use up vacation before it expires and spend time with family.

What I would add is that a majority of the forum threads are negative about fractals. Those people happy about it are playing the game or flaming some other community that they are unhappy with.
And of course they are going to lock down threads if all they are is kittening and complaining. A community doesnt need spam. I see plenty of negative but constructive threads about fractals still around.

nachtnebel.9168:

I seriously doubt that much player appreciate what they did with the FotM dungeon. Most feedback that can be found across the internet is negative. Yes, the individual fractals are fun – no doubt here – but as a whole the dungeon and especially the reward system connected to it is an epic fail.

Stop and think about that for a second. Why would ANet purposefully piss off its customers there isnt even any real money involved with the fractals at risk.
They gave us a survey to take and we did. Thats what they will base their decisions not on “epic fail” threads that make generalizations and assumptions of the player base.

At this point, I would like to know where Mike O’Brien, Colin Johanson and Eric Flannum are. Why have they not been talking about the game recently?

Even after launch, Mike O’Brien was continuing to issue statements about GW2. It really impressed me that he, the President, would take the time to address the community.

All of them spent a large amount of time doing interviews and being in videos discussing GW2. I have not been able to find anything from them since October.

Any official statement should be coming from them since they are the ones who talked about the original vision and game direction.
Where are they? Why have they not been as visible?

Jairlyn.1429:

nachtnebel.9168:

I seriously doubt that much player appreciate what they did with the FotM dungeon. Most feedback that can be found across the internet is negative. Yes, the individual fractals are fun – no doubt here – but as a whole the dungeon and especially the reward system connected to it is an epic fail.

Stop and think about that for a second. Why would ANet purposefully piss off its customers there isnt even any real money involved with the fractals at risk.
They gave us a survey to take and we did. Thats what they will base their decisions not on “epic fail” threads that make generalizations and assumptions of the player base.

Exactly, they gave us the survey after the forum was flooded with negative threads for days. That shows me that they are not so sure about whether what they did was right or not. In my book the whole “let them grind for gear” idea was rather a knee jerk reaction to some gear locusts leaving the game due to Pandas and not based on the wishes of the majority of the community. They didn’t want to piss us off on purpose, they just didn’t realize that what they were about to do was based on false assumptions.

Sumii.2845:

Why should we (ArenaNet) care:

• For starters while the population is made of players they are first and foremost consumers. They will play whatever they are content with and carry their buying power with them in that regards. If you alienate the majority or even a noticeable margin of your player base without any sort of formal answer you are effectively jeopardizing a majority or noticeable amount of your revenue. The best way for you (ArenaNet) to get the best RoI is by keeping your direction, planning, and ideas out in the open and very forthcoming to your consumers. The minute you (ArenaNet) treat consumers like cattle that can be corralled into any shape or fashion is the minute you’re likely to lose that valuable RoI.

• Aside from losing consumers you’re damaging any future legacy your brand name might have. I am a Marketing & Brand Developer. I work in progressing my brand’s name and making sure that it’s outlook in the future is improved. By jeopardizing your brand’s image you are liable to lose any future chance of new consumers or old consumers giving you a second chance.

• Potential lawsuits. I don’t advocate this, but let’s face it. The world today has become something of a frenzy in the courts. The issue is if you (ArenaNet) keep going down this road and direction without any regard to consumers you are putting yourself at risk. There are already precedents for virtual items that are owned by the company still being ruled in favor of the plaintiff (the player who lost said virtual property by whatever means). But more importantly, by putting out a manifesto, selling the product as such and along the lines of the manifesto puts you at an even greater risk. A number of states have what is known as Deceptive Trade & Practices Acts which you would do well to be wary of. Here are a few snippets from Texas’ said DTPA

• The underlying purpose of this Act is to protect consumers against false, misleading, and deceptive business practices, unconscionable actions, and breaches of warranty and to provide efficient and economical procedures to secure such protection. This Act is intended to be liberally construed and applied. A consumer is defined as one who seeks or acquires by purchase or lease any goods or services.

• …Seller takes advantage of “consumers” lack of knowledge, ability, experience, or capacity to a grossly unfair degree.

• …Representing that goods or services are of a particular standard, quality or grade, or that goods are of a particular style or model, if they are of another.

• …Fitness: Good can do what the sales person said it would do.

Let me please re-iterate that I am not condoning or advocating this kind of response, however it would be naive to think that this type of stuff doesn’t happen. People make ridiculous claims all the time that jeopardize companies and make them question why they even stay open to do business with such issues.

Sum It Up:

All this is conjecture and way overboard. It is based on a pre-tense of what could happen if ArenaNet keeps going down this road. Which I believe is something the majority (even upset consumers) don’t think ArenaNet intended (or intends) to do. But the last couple of weeks on the forums and in the game have been a melee and a constant bickering (even I have contributed to that).

So again, can we PLEASE have a formal statement from ArenaNet, regardless of direction of decision?

TLDR: Invest in the time to read and understand rather than looking for the shortened Cliff’s notes version. If this is too much to ask, just move along, thanks!

(2/2)

Quoted your second post for emphasis.

Anyone else purchase this game, or gems to be converted to gold on the false pretense that they would never have to upgrade their gear above exotics?

I know I did.

I won’t make that mistake twice.

nachtnebel.9168:

Jairlyn.1429:

nachtnebel.9168:

I seriously doubt that much player appreciate what they did with the FotM dungeon. Most feedback that can be found across the internet is negative. Yes, the individual fractals are fun – no doubt here – but as a whole the dungeon and especially the reward system connected to it is an epic fail.

Stop and think about that for a second. Why would ANet purposefully piss off its customers there isnt even any real money involved with the fractals at risk.
They gave us a survey to take and we did. Thats what they will base their decisions not on “epic fail” threads that make generalizations and assumptions of the player base.

Exactly, they gave us the survey after the forum was flooded with negative threads for days. That shows me that they are not so sure about whether what they did was right or not. In my book the whole “let them grind for gear” idea was rather a knee jerk reaction to some gear locusts leaving the game due to Pandas and not based on the wishes of the majority of the community. They didn’t want to piss us off on purpose, they just didn’t realize that what they were about to do was based on false assumptions.

It probably is more complicated than that. Lets not forget they know exactly how people play. If they saw people rushing to get exotic armor and then spend all their time farming they can extrapolate that once people get their legendaries they’re going to have nothing else to do. Also some might have gotten their exotic set and then simply left!

My fear is based on the comments I’ve seen about this story is a lot of people say they hate vertical progression but may play the game in a way that you’d expect someone who plays vertical progression!

I mean imagine you’re someone who doesnt know what people really think. (which is the case 10k people complaining is too small a sample when compared to 2m – 3m players). You issue the FoTM dungeon and you see the majority of the players drop off everything they’re doing and play FoTM non stop! What Idea would you get? people hate FoTM or love it?

Thats why a survey is important, what you see happening might not always reflect what you think it reflects!

+1

I’m usually very put-off by wall of text posts… but I read every word and thank you OP you’ve managed to articulate what a many of us are thinking and do it in a positive way.

Gilandred.9870:

Anet has already demonstrated that they are not interested in debating or discussing these issues further. They closed other threads, including the “big one,” without so much as a clarifying comment. That’s who they are, and if you thought otherwise, their actions have now spoken louder than words.

QFT.

voyager.4982:

Mimizu.7340:

to paraphrase Herac-l-i-tus (forum filter hates ancient greeks):

He doesn’t mind if you call him Herakittenus.

lol

First of all 10k people are enough to determine the election results for a country of over 80 million, so they are more than enough to determine whether something goes south or not.

It’s also very important that players who hate and love vertical progression showed the same playstyle before the Lost Shore patch. The goal for both was to get to exotics, the only difference was the those who hate vertical progression did this so they could start doing what they wanted to to while those who love vertical progression did it cause their goal simply is to get gear.

If Arena Net is not stupid as hell they know by now that they made a huge mistake and pissed of enough of the community to hurt them badly. This was obvious after they announced the patch content and it’s even more obvious now since we now know that things are even worse than we expected them to be.

Varu.1063:

Great, another one of these “OMG, you ruined my life with the [insert update name], change is scary and bad” threads.
Get over it or seek help, it`s a game, not a life altering experience.

Actually if you were to read the first page and a half this post did NOT start that way. Only mainly today when I posted about being excited over the Reddit Q/A bit did it become a number of posts directly about Ascended / Fractals.

Again, this thread is not directly to complain about the content of the patch.

And rather than type until my fingers are ‘blue in the face’ so to speak, I’ll just direct you to my first post.

This thread has been for the most part constructive and not a bickering thread. And I would prefer it stay that way, although I can’t stop people from posting unfortunately.

I would just ask that people that post contribute and comment on what the main post’s points are.

Thanks!