Guild Wars 2

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Manuhell.2759:

phys.7689:

Im fine with them giving you a title, i understand it sucks to lose something you may have enjoyed. I suggest you guys campaign for some titles, that seems doable. The fact they will no longer be obtainable is fine, living story has some unobtainable achievements already.

A title for level 50 could have been fine (albeit, they should have forewarned us long before the change).
But a title for level 80? No way. The last thing this game needs is promoting the use of exploits – and you had to exploit to go until that level.
They already had a consistent karma bonus when doing lower fractals, they don’t need any other prize.

Or should they put a title for every exploit they fix? What next? A nice boat title for boat exploiters in Arah P2? (it would sound fun, though)
Please, no.

tell me 1 exploit I did it legit with using revive orbs part of game mechanics what is the exploit here ? please just tell me I don’t get it if no dev confirms that using rez orbs they considered a exploit don’t tell me it was one!

exploit is anything you do that leads to unintended results, doesnt mean its necessarily malicious or you re fault. For example snowflake exploit made use of nothing but salavage kits and a recipe they created. some exploits in dungeons involve nothing but jumping in the right place.

They are not banning you, they are just closing the exploit more completely.

yep you don’t get it they told it is an infinite Level dungeon soooo it can’t be an unintended result to get a shigh as possible…::) so we weren’t exploiting

Manuhell.2759:

phys.7689:

Im fine with them giving you a title, i understand it sucks to lose something you may have enjoyed. I suggest you guys campaign for some titles, that seems doable. The fact they will no longer be obtainable is fine, living story has some unobtainable achievements already.

A title for level 50 could have been fine (albeit, they should have forewarned us long before the change).
But a title for level 80? No way. The last thing this game needs is promoting the use of exploits – and you had to exploit to go until that level.
They already had a consistent karma bonus when doing lower fractals, they don’t need any other prize.

Or should they put a title for every exploit they fix? What next? A nice boat title for boat exploiters in Arah P2? (it would sound fun, though)
Please, no.

Lots of people have exploited their Dungeon Master title. Where is the reset to that? Also I’m quite confident lots of people have gained gold from unintended sources (= something which has been nerfed). Perhaps remove their legendaries?

Can people stop with the “you weren’t supposed to be in there” nonsense already?

If we weren’t supposed to be in 50+ then why do the mobs continue to scale up as you get higher level? Why do bosses get harder as you go higher level? Are ArenaNet so thorough that they even balance mobs and bosses in content that is supposed to be completely inaccessible?

The original group that got to 81 did it totally legit. Using Revive Orbs is completely acceptable in PvE and still works in all dungeons/fractals to this day. People who say “it should have been obvious that using a gem store item to progress wasn’t intended by ArenaNet” need to wake up – free to play games often use “pay to win” strategies.

And let’s face it – no MMO company builds impossible to kill bosses to prevent people from doing stuff. If you try to place a bid on the TP for more gold than you actually have, does a huge boss appear and one-shot you? No – you just can’t do it, the game won’t let you. If ArenaNet genuinely didn’t want people in 50+ they could have just made it impossible to enter.

Wethospu.6437:

Lots of people have exploited their Dungeon Master title. Where is the reset to that? Also I’m quite confident lots of people have gained gold from unintended sources (= something which has been nerfed). Perhaps remove their legendaries?

Except Dungeon Master can be done by playing normally. And so are legendaries.
Level 80 fractals required an exploit to get there – there was no other way.
Any people who got over level 50 done it either via exploiting, or with the help of someone who exploited or that got there due of someone else exploiting it.

Wethospu.6437:

Manuhell.2759:

phys.7689:

Im fine with them giving you a title, i understand it sucks to lose something you may have enjoyed. I suggest you guys campaign for some titles, that seems doable. The fact they will no longer be obtainable is fine, living story has some unobtainable achievements already.

A title for level 50 could have been fine (albeit, they should have forewarned us long before the change).
But a title for level 80? No way. The last thing this game needs is promoting the use of exploits – and you had to exploit to go until that level.
They already had a consistent karma bonus when doing lower fractals, they don’t need any other prize.

Or should they put a title for every exploit they fix? What next? A nice boat title for boat exploiters in Arah P2? (it would sound fun, though)
Please, no.

Lots of people have exploited their Dungeon Master title. Where is the reset to that? Also I’m quite confident lots of people have gained gold from unintended sources (= something which has been nerfed). Perhaps remove their legendaries?

the reset isnt a punishment, its because the level 50+ content you beat doesnt exist and doesnt represent what 50+ will be in the future. you beat a bugged side game that will no longer exist

wouldnt make sense for you to get access to whatever is new in 50+ because you beat a different form of content they didnt want you to have access to

Manuhell.2759:

Wethospu.6437:

Lots of people have exploited their Dungeon Master title. Where is the reset to that? Also I’m quite confident lots of people have gained gold from unintended sources (= something which has been nerfed). Perhaps remove their legendaries?

Except Dungeon Master can be done by playing normally. And so are legendaries.
Level 80 fractals required an exploit to get there – there was no other way.
Any people who got over level 50 done it either via exploiting, or with the help of someone who exploited or that got there due of someone else exploiting it.

So exploiting is fair game if you have the option to do it normally?

phys.7689:

—
the reset isnt a punishment, its because the level 50+ content you beat doesnt exist and doesnt represent what 50+ will be in the future. you beat a bugged side game that will no longer exist

wouldnt make sense for you to get access to whatever is new in 50+ because you beat a different form of content they didnt want you to have access to

Those non-existing mobs hit surprisingly hard. So why can’t I get rewarded for beating a side game? Are you really that bitter for not being able to achieve same?

Again, if they didn’t want us to access 50+ they would have simply prevent entering (literally changing one value in their code).
Why wouldn’t it make sense that I get access to time-gated content by having spent time? Why do I have to grind the levels again?

Also, ArenaNet fixed countless commonly used exploits in FotM, usually involving putting invisible walls into the map and stuff of that nature. If they can physically put assets into the map to stop people from exploiting, are you telling me that preventing all access to 50+ at the entry portal is asking too much?

Or better yet, a single forum post over the past year saying “don’t you guys get the picture? We don’t want you in there!” But no, nothing. Not one comment on the issue, as far as I’m aware. Just zero communication. And believe me, people have asked many times if they mind people going 50+.

ozma.3498:

Can people stop with the “you weren’t supposed to be in there” nonsense already?

If we weren’t supposed to be in 50+ then why do the mobs continue to scale up as you get higher level? Why do bosses get harder as you go higher level? Are ArenaNet so thorough that they even balance mobs and bosses in content that is supposed to be completely inaccessible?

The original group that got to 81 did it totally legit. Using Revive Orbs is completely acceptable in PvE and still works in all dungeons/fractals to this day. People who say “it should have been obvious that using a gem store item to progress wasn’t intended by ArenaNet” need to wake up – free to play games often use “pay to win” strategies.

And let’s face it – no MMO company builds impossible to kill bosses to prevent people from doing stuff. If you try to place a bid on the TP for more gold than you actually have, does a huge boss appear and one-shot you? No – you just can’t do it, the game won’t let you. If ArenaNet genuinely didn’t want people in 50+ they could have just made it impossible to enter.

there is no other content in the game that requires a res orb, they specifically said when res orbs were released that they would not be making content that required them in order to succeed.

And they did make it impossible to enter via res orb eventually.

Wethospu.6437:

Manuhell.2759:

Wethospu.6437:

Lots of people have exploited their Dungeon Master title. Where is the reset to that? Also I’m quite confident lots of people have gained gold from unintended sources (= something which has been nerfed). Perhaps remove their legendaries?

Except Dungeon Master can be done by playing normally. And so are legendaries.
Level 80 fractals required an exploit to get there – there was no other way.
Any people who got over level 50 done it either via exploiting, or with the help of someone who exploited or that got there due of someone else exploiting it.

So exploiting is fair game if you have the option to do it normally?

what exactly is it you want? you are arguing, but what would happen in your perfect world, that would still solve most the problems of fotm, add new modes, and not harm you?

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Selenya.6410:

@ Patrikan: Quoting from another thread, so that i can avoid to point it out once again. Have fun.

I tell you a secret we used revive orbs in the area of maw not on the edge of the rock or somthing we didn’t know about those exploits back than. Since this guy doesn’t even know that the first hardcap they made was scale 40 and not 50 it seems he isn’t that informed. look at this thread : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Fractals-cap-80/page/2#post3230095

We had no idea that we shoulnd’t be there in the firstplace we asked on the Forums there was only silent they could have told us.. so you can’t blame us for using game mechanics as revive orbs… what you are telling that they haven’t intended it came here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/In-my-view-gw2-is-geartrademill/first#post1390754

so this post is 2 months Later..

So turn on your brain…

Correct I did Fractals perfectly legit to the best of knowledge availible on the time I played it… if they wanted just a single post could have helped out.

but now they take away my lvl and if you say it’s only numbers they take away about 12 k Karma from each run as well!

Your reply is laughable. In my country we call this: clutching at straws. I could have taken your arguments into some consideration if maths wasnt there, but sadly you cant’ debate over maths. All the rest of it, is some sort of picky ’’ethics’’ to workaround the point.
The fact is: you all did grasp the trail with 25-30AR shouldn’t be going that far as instead you did, but for the taste of someway brag about, the path has been forced on its route.
You had signs, you just ignored them, so now please dont’ take it on me when the only one to blame to some extent is yourself.
On the other hand, the only thing i can agree with, is that Anet should have made it clear at some point. But I take they had some major inner problem (prolly understaffed at that time, or debatings about diff views, they seem ppl of habit into never be in agreement among themselves :p – dont’ intend to offend anyone, this is just how it appears very often from outside -), and comunication got stale.
As well, I dont want to justify Anet, they did more than some bad thing in time under various perspectives, disappointing several layers of the comunity, and this is the last and surely not the least (for some). but of all the updates this seems the most well concerned contentwise.
Have as well things to lose, but if it’s for general wellness, I can somehow deal with it in this case. For some reason I genuinely dont’ feel the whole of it as a big harm toward myself – even the infused backpack controversy has been cleared out -. It’s not me who went behind the corner with the ’’scarecrow’’ (= veiled threat) of a dead-end there.
Still stays I don’t generally like arrogant/smartkittenes attitudes expecialy over something so easy falling into misleading interpretations which ends up making some ppl feel entititled to compensation, when the only thing to do was prolly standing still to avoid this situation entirely (end of the day, this game still offers several things to be entertained by, than just carry on something ambiguous).Your quibbling over won’t make the facts looks any better.

Like it or not, to everyone its own. We’ll see neat when update will go live.

phys.7689:

there is no other content in the game that requires a res orb, they specifically said when res orbs were released that they would not be making content that required them in order to succeed.

They also said there was infinite progression. In fact, they’ve said so many things that they’ve gone back on it’s quite remarkable – I could probably list 30 things right now off the top of my head, but that would veering off topic. Also, not everybody reads everything ArenaNet says in a forum/tweet/whatever. If content is there right in front of you and ArenaNet is promoting/selling a “Revive Orb”, there is nothing strange about assuming it’s okay to use.

And they did make it impossible to enter via res orb eventually.

I guess you mean complete it and not enter, since Revive Orbs were never used in some kind of exploit to let you enter an area that was inaccessible. They were just to resurrect yourself after Jade Maw used Agony.

phys.7689:

—
what exactly is it you want? you are arguing, but what would happen in your perfect world, that would still solve most the problems of fotm, add new modes, and not harm you?

Make leadersboards based on highest scale beated after patch. Let everyone keep their progression. People who have already grinded levels shouldn’t have to grind them again. If we can handle the skill/gear gating then let us do it.

Or just let us keep our prestige with one little title.

ozma.3498:

phys.7689:

there is no other content in the game that requires a res orb, they specifically said when res orbs were released that they would not be making content that required them in order to succeed.

They also said there was infinite progression. In fact, they’ve said so many things that they’ve gone back on it’s quite remarkable – I could probably list 30 things right now off the top of my head, but that would veering off topic. Also, not everybody reads everything ArenaNet says in a forum/tweet/whatever. If content is there right in front of you and ArenaNet is promoting/selling a “Revive Orb”, there is nothing strange about assuming it’s okay to use.

And they did make it impossible to enter via res orb eventually.

I guess you mean complete it and not enter, since Revive Orbs were never used in some kind of exploit to let you enter an area that was inaccessible. They were just to resurrect yourself after Jade Maw used Agony.

yup i mean using res orbs to complete it.

at that point the only way to get in, was for someone who was already there to let you in, if you hadnt beaten it already. That should have been a clue that it was going to be dealth with.

the closing of the portal took a long time, but its coming next week. so yeah they are essentially doing what you are saying they should have done. After next week when you beat 50, which will be beatable, you wont get access to 51.

Wethospu.6437:

So exploiting is fair game if you have the option to do it normally?

I didn’t say that. They just don’t have the instruments to know if you did it normally or via exploiting, thus they would also punish people who gained those in the way it was intended.
Whereas fractal level 50+ could be gained only via exploits, thus they’re certain they’re putting back to level 30 people who exploited.

Sure, they’re also involving people who got to level 50 and stopped there – as it was supposed to work – but they’re also changing the whole system in doing that, and while it would be right for them feeling a bit annoyed at the change, they’ll have to work out the new content – the instabilities – like everyone else.

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

—
what exactly is it you want? you are arguing, but what would happen in your perfect world, that would still solve most the problems of fotm, add new modes, and not harm you?

Make leadersboards based on highest scale beated after patch. Let everyone keep their progression. People who have already grinded levels shouldn’t have to grind them again. If we can handle the skill/gear gating then let us do it.

Or just let us keep our prestige with one little title.

but your levels are meaningless above 51, there is no above 50 after next patch. Beating 50 will no longer give you access to to 51, Im not even sure they will give karma for level difference any more, so your 80 would essentially be an illusion.

and if as implied 50+ have new mechanics, i dont think you should get access to them for beating a different content.

i got no problem with a title. If it would be feasible to program, perhaps they could do the seperate number thing for the leaderboards. up to 50. try to focus your feedback on that.

Manuhell.2759:

Whereas fractal level 50+ could be gained only via exploits, thus they’re certain they’re putting back to level 30 people who exploited.

Nope. Revive Orbs aren’t an exploit. And ArenaNet then introduced their own system of letting you “level up” by doing a higher run than your own, making it possible to do 50+ without Jade Maw. Again, that’s not an exploit – I did 50-80 totally legitimately, clearing maps out the same way I would at level 11, 13, 15, etc., opened by people who did it legitimately. Again – using a Revive Orb type item in a free to play game isn’t an exploit. It’s completely normal to expect some degree of “pay to win” in any free to play game.

For example, if you get your wallet out now you can instantly have Ascended weapons, or a legendary (where you can change stats whenever you want) if your pockets are deep. That’s an acceptable degree of pay to win. Just because you can also get it with gold, it’s still pay to win, because you can skip all the grinding and just outright buy gems, convert them to gold and buy whatever you want in-game.

If they didn’t like people being in 50+ they should have prevented access, rather than pseudo-fix it by having an “unkillable” boss (that’s a ridiculous way to prevent players from doing something). They could have also made personal level 50 the hard cap in their code, instead of allowing it to go to 81. They chose some number – why should the community have to figure out that they wanted it to be 50 (no communication, of course) even though the actual cap is 81?

ozma.3498:

Manuhell.2759:

Whereas fractal level 50+ could be gained only via exploits, thus they’re certain they’re putting back to level 30 people who exploited.

Nope. Revive Orbs aren’t an exploit. And ArenaNet then introduced their own system of letting you “level up” by doing a higher run than your own, making it possible to do 50+ without Jade Maw. Again, that’s not an exploit – I did 50-80 totally legitimately, clearing maps out the same way I would at level 11, 13, 15, etc., opened by people who did it legitimately. Again – using a Revive Orb type item in a free to play game isn’t an exploit. It’s completely normal to expect some degree of “pay to win” in any free to play game.

If they didn’t like people being in 50+ they should have prevented access, rather than pseudo-fix it by having an “unkillable” boss (that’s a ridiculous way to prevent players from doing something). They could have also made personal level 50 the hard cap in their code, instead of allowing it to go to 81. They chose some number – why should the community have to figure out that they wanted it to be 50 (no communication, of course) even though the actual cap is 81?

your just rationalizing at this point. you already know exploits and bugs are not often things that are disallowed by the game, they are unintended consequences of normal play. They likely had not reviewed how they wanted to solve the problem so they did not solve it before.

As for buddying to a higher level, that was intended for normal play, not as the way to get past 50. Do you really believe they decided that only people who used res orbs previously should get to decide who can get past 50?

Do you really beleive they made it impossible to beat jade maw with a res orb by an actual player because they wanted people to buddy past that fractal?

you re just telling yourself what you want to hear, even if its illogical.

they arent punishing you, they are closing an exploit

and yeah they are basically doing exactly what you said, they are closing off access, just took em awhile to do it.

far as communication, yea it could be better. They could have said, go past 50 at your own risk, its unfinished and we didnt expect people to get there, we arent even sure we re going to go in that direction.

but yeah you still would have done it regardless, why are you fronting?

ozma.3498:

They also said there was infinite progression. In fact, they’ve said so many things that they’ve gone back on it’s quite remarkable

By the way, they’re still saying it… The new trailer they released says on youtube:

Enter the improved Fractals of the Mists, an endless dungeon experience for the brave and skilled!

phys.7689:

Do you really beleive they made it impossible to beat jade maw with a res orb by an actual player because they wanted people to buddy past that fractal?

you re just telling yourself what you want to hear, even if its illogical.

they arent punishing you, they are closing an exploit

It’s very simple. If they didn’t want people doing it, they could either a) make it impossible to get past personal level 50 (i.e. change “81” to “50” in their code), b) make it impossible to enter 50+ fractals, or c) make a quick forum post to the community saying “don’t do it” at any point in the past year. None were done.

phys.7689:

far as communication, yea it could be better. They could have said, go past 50 at your own risk, its unfinished and we didnt expect people to get there, we arent even sure we re going to go in that direction.

but yeah you still would have done it regardless, why are you fronting?

You shouldn’t make such assumptions about people. If ArenaNet said “don’t do it”, I wouldn’t have done it.

phys.7689:

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

—
what exactly is it you want? you are arguing, but what would happen in your perfect world, that would still solve most the problems of fotm, add new modes, and not harm you?

Make leadersboards based on highest scale beated after patch. Let everyone keep their progression. People who have already grinded levels shouldn’t have to grind them again. If we can handle the skill/gear gating then let us do it.

Or just let us keep our prestige with one little title.

but your levels are meaningless above 51, there is no above 50 after next patch. Beating 50 will no longer give you access to to 51, Im not even sure they will give karma for level difference any more, so your 80 would essentially be an illusion.

and if as implied 50+ have new mechanics, i dont think you should get access to them for beating a different content.

i got no problem with a title. If it would be feasible to program, perhaps they could do the seperate number thing for the leaderboards. up to 50. try to focus your feedback on that.

So because I’m at scale 80 and new content caps at 50 I should be but back to 30? Sorry. unable to follow this logic.

Legendaries also got changed and people benefit from it. I fail to see why I can’t get the same courtesy. I have done huge amount of grind for nothing.

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

—
what exactly is it you want? you are arguing, but what would happen in your perfect world, that would still solve most the problems of fotm, add new modes, and not harm you?

Make leadersboards based on highest scale beated after patch. Let everyone keep their progression. People who have already grinded levels shouldn’t have to grind them again. If we can handle the skill/gear gating then let us do it.

Or just let us keep our prestige with one little title.

but your levels are meaningless above 51, there is no above 50 after next patch. Beating 50 will no longer give you access to to 51, Im not even sure they will give karma for level difference any more, so your 80 would essentially be an illusion.

and if as implied 50+ have new mechanics, i dont think you should get access to them for beating a different content.

i got no problem with a title. If it would be feasible to program, perhaps they could do the seperate number thing for the leaderboards. up to 50. try to focus your feedback on that.

So because I’m at scale 80 and new content caps at 50 I should be but back to 30? Sorry. unable to follow this logic.

Legendaries also got changed and people benefit from it. I fail to see why I can’t get the same courtesy. I have done huge amount of grind for nothing.

i thought your debate was for 51-80 content

i concede that people who got up to 50 do have a point.
however, it is also true that the 31-50 you grinded and beat is not the same as the 31-50 they are putting in now, if the 31-50 is your focus, your posts should reflect that, its a very different issue than the 51-80 issue, and probably needs to be discussed seperately

They said they changed the scaling of difficulty. By this argument, 1-30 is not the same as new 1-30, then why not reset everyone to 1 ?

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

Wethospu.6437:

phys.7689:

—
what exactly is it you want? you are arguing, but what would happen in your perfect world, that would still solve most the problems of fotm, add new modes, and not harm you?

Make leadersboards based on highest scale beated after patch. Let everyone keep their progression. People who have already grinded levels shouldn’t have to grind them again. If we can handle the skill/gear gating then let us do it.

Or just let us keep our prestige with one little title.

but your levels are meaningless above 51, there is no above 50 after next patch. Beating 50 will no longer give you access to to 51, Im not even sure they will give karma for level difference any more, so your 80 would essentially be an illusion.

and if as implied 50+ have new mechanics, i dont think you should get access to them for beating a different content.

i got no problem with a title. If it would be feasible to program, perhaps they could do the seperate number thing for the leaderboards. up to 50. try to focus your feedback on that.

So because I’m at scale 80 and new content caps at 50 I should be but back to 30? Sorry. unable to follow this logic.

Legendaries also got changed and people benefit from it. I fail to see why I can’t get the same courtesy. I have done huge amount of grind for nothing.

as to the legendary thing, they are changing and i doubt people will get refunds or titles for their old legendaries that they got precursors for via forge drop or tp, even if it ends up being a lot harder than the new paths

My issue is that I have grinded a lot to reach the maximum scale (scale 79 was quite disappointment tbh). And now I have to grind again to reach the maximum scale.

I don’t appreciate my work getting erased, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it or to make it look like players fault..

Wethospu.6437:

My issue is that I have grinded a lot to reach the maximum scale (scale 79 was quite disappointment tbh). And now I have to grind again to reach the maximum scale.

I don’t appreciate my work getting erased, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it or to make it look like players fault..

You haven’t done anything to max out the new system (grats on the old, btw), so you’re not losing anything with regards to the new system. You haven’t experienced any of the 30+ new mechanics and difficulties. You have a new path of progression you never had before. Well done for beating the old system! Time to step it up now!

Estriella Faerie.4029:

They said they changed the scaling of difficulty. By your argument, 1-30 is not the same as new 1-30, then why not reset everyone to 1 ?

he actually said its going to be slightly easier.
1-50.

the difference here isnt a matter of scaling though, 30-50 will have a new mechanic which im assuming will be kind of like gambits, or possibly the special conditions they had in GW1 hardmode. this means although they may not be mechanically harder, they could in fact be a fairly different experience. Which means your level 31-50 may not show you have mastered this new challenge.

level 1-30 though will be virtually the same though barring bug fixes and adjustments

Anyhow, as i said, im not sure they should be resetting people all the way to 30, thats an argument that may have merit, argue that case, if thats what you think is best.

i just think it wont be too effective to argue for level 80 things when level 51-80 will no longer be accessible, and behavior has shown its something they have been trying to prevent for some time.

VOLKON.1290:

Weren’t you the one that said difficulty didn’t increase above 48 or something? So your “81” is nothing more than 48 done a bunch of times, not level 81 difficulty.

You’re not “81” difficulty. You’re an over-orbed 48 or so. As such, you’ll be seeing greater difficulty coming to challenge you. Good luck!

81 and 48 in same league does not compute.

VOLKON.1290:

Wethospu.6437:

My issue is that I have grinded a lot to reach the maximum scale (scale 79 was quite disappointment tbh). And now I have to grind again to reach the maximum scale.

I don’t appreciate my work getting erased, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it or to make it look like players fault..

You haven’t done anything to max out the new system (grats on the old, btw), so you’re not losing anything with regards to the new system. You haven’t experienced any of the 30+ new mechanics and difficulties. You have a new path of progression you never had before. Well done for beating the old system! Time to step it up now!

Yes, and usually you get something to show off that you have beating something. Do you honestly think most of the people would play without any carrots?

You get title for carving pumpkins. Why can’t this get one?

Wethospu.6437:

My issue is that I have grinded a lot to reach the maximum scale (scale 79 was quite disappointment tbh). And now I have to grind again to reach the maximum scale.

I don’t appreciate my work getting erased, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it or to make it look like players fault..

was 79 much harder than 55? do you think that they needed to improve the challenge and make fractals less of a repetive grind while climbing? these are the things they are trying to solve here.
they actually want the play from 31=50 to be different than 11-30, which is honestly a better designed system. Im assuming 51+ when it comes will also be different

Wethospu.6437:

VOLKON.1290:

Wethospu.6437:

My issue is that I have grinded a lot to reach the maximum scale (scale 79 was quite disappointment tbh). And now I have to grind again to reach the maximum scale.

I don’t appreciate my work getting erased, no matter how you try to sugarcoat it or to make it look like players fault..

You haven’t done anything to max out the new system (grats on the old, btw), so you’re not losing anything with regards to the new system. You haven’t experienced any of the 30+ new mechanics and difficulties. You have a new path of progression you never had before. Well done for beating the old system! Time to step it up now!

Yes, and usually you get something to show off that you have beating something. Do you honestly think most of the people would play without any carrots?

You get title for carving pumpkins. Why can’t this get one?

A title for maxing out the old school Fractals? That’s not a bad idea to be honest. “Fractal Greybeard” or something. That would acknowledge the accomplishments of the past without skipping the challenges of the future. I like it. Maybe even through in some form of commemorative T-Shirt or other clothing, be it either a serious unique design or a comical “I maxed out FotM and all I got was this lousy T-shirt” style.

Time may be short to implement something like this, but I can’t see any reason at all that the community shouldn’t support it. Maybe throw in a unique finisher with a Fractal theme.

haviz.1340:

VOLKON.1290:

Weren’t you the one that said difficulty didn’t increase above 48 or something? So your “81” is nothing more than 48 done a bunch of times, not level 81 difficulty.

You’re not “81” difficulty. You’re an over-orbed 48 or so. As such, you’ll be seeing greater difficulty coming to challenge you. Good luck!

81 and 48 in same league does not compute.

If 81 and 48 are effectively the same with regards to the challenge (81 no more difficult than 48) then it does compute. It’s my understanding that the level of difficulty doesn’t increase beyond that.

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

Vayne.8563:

While this is not completely congruent, I can remember decisions made about titles in Guild Wars 1 that received much the same reception.

Defender of Ascalon title was once only accomplishable by death leveling. Anyone who did this (and it was mind-numbingly boring), did it because they wanted a title that required a huge amount of work. Now anyone can get it over time by doing the dailies in Pre every day which takes a few minutes.

For the Survivor title, it use to be that people would have to survive on a single character, and get all the experience on that character. If that character even died a single time, your title track was broken and you had to get it on a different character. No more. Now even if you die on a character, you can still get the survivor title.

The drunkard title track was changed so that you could continuously consume alcohol instead of having to wait and time it, making the title track many times easier.

These grinds took a tremendous amount of time, and the titles earned by them became almost meaningless after those changes took effect. No one would ever know that my Survivor was a Survivor, for example, without doing the Kilroy Stonekin over and over with no chance of dying.

The 80th level fractals were more rewarding loot wise than anything I’ve listed above BY FAR. They also confer no title. There was no title track for this. People made their own goals and should be satisfied that they reached those goals, but within the context of the game, it’s a number that goes up on a dungeon that no one can see except for the four guys going with you. It’s meaningless in the context of the broader game.

Does it suck? Probably? Is it as kittenome people are making out?

People felt just the same way when titles they killed themselves to get were made meaningless.

Difference was, people’s survivor, drunkard, etc wasn’t bumped down to the previous tier just because a new way was implemented if doing it. Sure it became easier to get, but then everything in an MMO does over time.

The issue’s is around people’s perception of how they have been treated. Which is actually pretty important when it comes to customer retention and money spent in the gem store.

A probably more pertinent set of questions would be
If you have had your fractal level reset, how likely are you to redo them?
Has this decision improved, degraded or given no chance your view of Arenanet
How likely has this incident made you want to buy items from the gem store or support Arenanet in the future.

In this case it’s worse. Because in this case you can get back to the max level that can be reached….it’s doable.

But no one will EVER be able to make the Defender of Ascalon title or the Drunkard Title or the Survivor title valuable again. The titles became a joke after all your hard work.

Which means if you wear that title, every single person will just assume you did it the easy way. Worthless. It made all the time you spent getting it (for a lot of people) worthless.

And there was no chests, no payoff, no real tangible rewards for getting those titles.

Those who ran fractals got drops and end chests.

No this is far worse than rolling people back to thirty, when two weeks later they’ll be back to 50.

And these titles took a long long time to get.

VOLKON.1290:

haviz.1340:

VOLKON.1290:

Weren’t you the one that said difficulty didn’t increase above 48 or something? So your “81” is nothing more than 48 done a bunch of times, not level 81 difficulty.

You’re not “81” difficulty. You’re an over-orbed 48 or so. As such, you’ll be seeing greater difficulty coming to challenge you. Good luck!

81 and 48 in same league does not compute.

If 81 and 48 are effectively the same with regards to the challenge (81 no more difficult than 48) then it does compute. It’s my understanding that the level of difficulty doesn’t increase beyond that.

Just watch some footage of a 70+ fractal, getting 1 shotted by trash mobs is certainly a difficulty increase over 48.

Vayne.8563:

Shanaeri Rynale.6897:

Vayne.8563:

While this is not completely congruent, I can remember decisions made about titles in Guild Wars 1 that received much the same reception.

Defender of Ascalon title was once only accomplishable by death leveling. Anyone who did this (and it was mind-numbingly boring), did it because they wanted a title that required a huge amount of work. Now anyone can get it over time by doing the dailies in Pre every day which takes a few minutes.

For the Survivor title, it use to be that people would have to survive on a single character, and get all the experience on that character. If that character even died a single time, your title track was broken and you had to get it on a different character. No more. Now even if you die on a character, you can still get the survivor title.

The drunkard title track was changed so that you could continuously consume alcohol instead of having to wait and time it, making the title track many times easier.

These grinds took a tremendous amount of time, and the titles earned by them became almost meaningless after those changes took effect. No one would ever know that my Survivor was a Survivor, for example, without doing the Kilroy Stonekin over and over with no chance of dying.

The 80th level fractals were more rewarding loot wise than anything I’ve listed above BY FAR. They also confer no title. There was no title track for this. People made their own goals and should be satisfied that they reached those goals, but within the context of the game, it’s a number that goes up on a dungeon that no one can see except for the four guys going with you. It’s meaningless in the context of the broader game.

Does it suck? Probably? Is it as kittenome people are making out?

People felt just the same way when titles they killed themselves to get were made meaningless.

Difference was, people’s survivor, drunkard, etc wasn’t bumped down to the previous tier just because a new way was implemented if doing it. Sure it became easier to get, but then everything in an MMO does over time.

The issue’s is around people’s perception of how they have been treated. Which is actually pretty important when it comes to customer retention and money spent in the gem store.

A probably more pertinent set of questions would be
If you have had your fractal level reset, how likely are you to redo them?
Has this decision improved, degraded or given no chance your view of Arenanet
How likely has this incident made you want to buy items from the gem store or support Arenanet in the future.

In this case it’s worse. Because in this case you can get back to the max level that can be reached….it’s doable.

But no one will EVER be able to make the Defender of Ascalon title or the Drunkard Title or the Survivor title valuable again. The titles became a joke after all your hard work.

Which means if you wear that title, every single person will just assume you did it the easy way. Worthless. It made all the time you spent getting it (for a lot of people) worthless.

And there was no chests, no payoff, no real tangible rewards for getting those titles.

Those who ran fractals got drops and end chests.

No this is far worse than rolling people back to thirty, when two weeks later they’ll be back to 50.

And these titles took a long long time to get.

so because they made a mistake in gw1 they should do it again now? I don’t get what your saying there ? It’s just a Thing you shoulnd’t do to delete the Progress ppl made with spending time and Money.. it’s like deleting legendaries or other stuff ppl would be more upset but it’s basicaly the same they do because the ammount of time and Money that could have been earned instead equals more than a legendary

This is what this boils down to.

People who are high level fotm (40+) and those that are masochist (50+) want a compensation for having their work removed.

People who have never set foot in fotm or are 30- don’t want the people that put more work into fractals and those that are more skilled than they are to be compensated. They will cry exploits (unfairly) because they have no other arguement to stand on.

If you AREN’T affected by this change, then please kindly leave and keep your unwanted opinions to yourself.

haviz.1340:

VOLKON.1290:

If 81 and 48 are effectively the same with regards to the challenge (81 no more difficult than 48) then it does compute. It’s my understanding that the level of difficulty doesn’t increase beyond that.

It is my understanding that you talk about things you know a little if anything. If 81 and 48 are the same it also means 1 and 48 are the same, right? And new 50 will be the same as old 50. Effectively the same with regards to the challenge. So why difference in rewards if they are the same? Maybe scale 1 should be as much rewarding as scale 48, because they are effectively the same with regards to the challenge.

If the intended challenge was originally meant to top out at a level 50 wall, then you’d have increasing challenges to that point then no designed increases beyond that. Old 81 was the same difficulty as 48 because they never intended there to be an 81 and hadn’t coded increasing difficulties for that.

VOLKON.1290:

If the intended challenge was originally meant to top out at a level 50 wall, then you’d have increasing challenges to that point then no designed increases beyond that. Old 81 was the same difficulty as 48 because they never intended there to be an 81 and hadn’t coded increasing difficulties for that.

Then how come we are being reset to 30 instead of 50?

They could have easily made the new content start at 50 so we keep our levels. Also, I’d say 95% of people don’t care about leaderboards.

JMar.3254:

This is what this boils down to.

People who are high level fotm (40+) and those that are masochist (50+) want a compensation for having their work removed.

People who have never set foot in fotm or are 30- don’t want the people that put more work into fractals and those that are more skilled than they are to be compensated. They will cry exploits (unfairly) because they have no other arguement to stand on.

If you AREN’T affected by this change, then please kindly leave and keep your unwanted opinions to yourself.

What is boils down to is simple. No one has earned any Fractal levels under the new challenges and difficulties beyond level 30, where the new changes take place. Allowing someone to remain at 50+ (or anything above 30 tbh) means they’re getting to those advanced levels without putting in any of the actual work required to get there under the new system. Now The past is gone. It went by like dusk to dawn. Isn’t that the way? Everybody’s got their dues in life to pay. Yeah, I know nobody knows where it comes and where it goes, I know it’s everybody’s sin you got to lose to know how to win.

I… seem to have had a flashback there.

VOLKON.1290:

I have no idea what you’re babbling on about now. If the intended challenge was originally meant to top out at a level 50 wall, then you’d have increasing challenges to that point then no designed increases beyond that. Old 81 was the same difficulty as 48 because they never intended there to be an 81 and hadn’t coded increasing difficulties for that.

Which effectively shows you cannot discuss changes about which you have no knowledge.

Scaling of mobs was implemented properly because scaling was linear for all levels. Last time I checked, linear functions are very easy to implement and do not any additional improvements.

JMar.3254:

VOLKON.1290:

If the intended challenge was originally meant to top out at a level 50 wall, then you’d have increasing challenges to that point then no designed increases beyond that. Old 81 was the same difficulty as 48 because they never intended there to be an 81 and hadn’t coded increasing difficulties for that.

Then how come we are being reset to 30 instead of 50?

They could have easily made the new content start at 50 so we keep our levels. Also, I’d say 95% of people don’t care about leaderboards.

You’re being reset to 30 because that’s where the new challenges are being implemented. If they held them out to level 50 then far too many of the players would be excluded from experiencing the new challenges. What good is new content if you make it so exclusive that only a fraction of a percent of the population ever experiences it?

JMar.3254:

VOLKON.1290:

If the intended challenge was originally meant to top out at a level 50 wall, then you’d have increasing challenges to that point then no designed increases beyond that. Old 81 was the same difficulty as 48 because they never intended there to be an 81 and hadn’t coded increasing difficulties for that.

Then how come we are being reset to 30 instead of 50?

They could have easily made the new content start at 50 so we keep our levels. Also, I’d say 95% of people don’t care about leaderboards.

mostly because level 30-50 was essentially a grind and was too similar to 20-30, If they made the new exciting content be after 50, few people would see it. They are making fractals more varied as you climb, so more people will want to climb, the more people that hit cap, the sooner they extend the cap.

i agree most people dont care about leaderboards, most probably dont care if you have access to 50, but i dont think it would be a great idea to have new content behind the current climb to 50, its too repetitive

VOLKON.1290:

You’re being reset to 30 because that’s where the new challenges are being implemented. If they held them out to level 50 then far too many of the players would be excluded from experiencing the new challenges. What good is new content if you make it so exclusive that only a fraction of a percent of the population ever experiences it?

Indeed, once you’re 50 you cannot do 30.

haviz.1340:

VOLKON.1290:

You’re being reset to 30 because that’s where the new challenges are being implemented. If they held them out to level 50 then far too many of the players would be excluded from experiencing the new challenges. What good is new content if you make it so exclusive that only a fraction of a percent of the population ever experiences it?

Indeed, once you’re 50 you cannot do 30.

Eh… wait… what? I’m pretty sure in Fractals you can choose lower levels if you wish, or did that change?

haviz.1340:

VOLKON.1290:

I have no idea what you’re babbling on about now. If the intended challenge was originally meant to top out at a level 50 wall, then you’d have increasing challenges to that point then no designed increases beyond that. Old 81 was the same difficulty as 48 because they never intended there to be an 81 and hadn’t coded increasing difficulties for that.

Which effectively shows you cannot discuss changes about which you have no knowledge.

Scaling of mobs was implemented properly because scaling was linear for all levels. Last time I checked, linear functions are very easy to implement and do not any additional improvements.

but at a certain point its all academic because being 1 shot is being one shot, being tw shot is being two shot. I think they want the difficulty to not just be linear. they want it to feel different 31+ which imo is a better mechanic. its likely they have different plans for 50+ than 31+ if they get enough people who master 50

VOLKON.1290:

Eh… wait… what? I’m pretty sure in Fractals you can choose lower levels if you wish, or did that change?

I don’t know, you tell me. You seem like a knowledgeable person.

phys.7689:

but at a certain point its all academic because being 1 shot is being one shot, being tw shot is being two shot. I think they want the difficulty to not just be linear. they want it to feel different 31+ which imo is a better mechanic. its likely they have different plans for 50+ than 31+ if they get enough people who master 50

Which still is going to be the case of scales 1-50.

haviz.1340:

VOLKON.1290:

Eh… wait… what? I’m pretty sure in Fractals you can choose lower levels if you wish, or did that change?

I don’t know, you tell me. You seem like a knowledgeable person.

Eh… fair enough… unless they changed it recently you can choose to do lower levels if you wish, therefore 50 can do 30 if they choose. I have no idea why this is relevant to the conversation, but there you go.

They could have made the new post lvl 30 changes a post lvl 50 challenge, that way the majority of players would still keep their lvl. Or at least give us a choice between keeping our current level and not be on leaderboards or accept the reset and be eligible for leaderboards.

For those still confused by the New Agony slot on rings and backpacks
(here is a quick graphic representation of how I understood the changes):

haviz.1340:

VOLKON.1290:

Eh… wait… what? I’m pretty sure in Fractals you can choose lower levels if you wish, or did that change?

I don’t know, you tell me. You seem like a knowledgeable person.

phys.7689:

but at a certain point its all academic because being 1 shot is being one shot, being tw shot is being two shot. I think they want the difficulty to not just be linear. they want it to feel different 31+ which imo is a better mechanic. its likely they have different plans for 50+ than 31+ if they get enough people who master 50

Which still is going to be the case of scales 1-50.

actually its not going to be the case, if i understand what you mean
1-9 have no agony, and the monsters dont do their most annoying things
10-30 game play is pretty different and in general different
31-50 has the same enemy behaviors, but more enemies, and more damage.

they are altering the difficulty type to be less about being one shot and more about dealing with instability. so this is going to make 31-50 a different type of play than before. I dont think they will add anything 50+ until a decent amount of players reach that teir, they wont want to lock new content that far back, unless many players are already there.
they will probably add new fractals and what not, just not 50+

sorry for you guys who liked the 1/2 shot perfect run tests, i think they should create a progression based on that for those who like it, but im not a dev