Guild Wars 2

Floryn.6307:

They could have made the new post lvl 30 changes a post lvl 50 challenge, that way the majority of players would still keep their lvl. Or at least give us a choice between keeping our current level and not be on leaderboards or accept the reset and be eligible for leaderboards.

For those still confused by the New Agony slot on rings and backpacks
(here is a quick graphic representation of how I understood the changes):

dont see the problem in the pic,

you payed 250 ecto for an extra slot, those who dont have this new slot cant put agony resistance in their gear other than versatile, might precise, etc.
essentially people who infused have extremely high AR potential, people who do not are limited to 5 per ascended peice
(And early ascended armor suggests it may not have infusion slots at all).

phys.7689:

actually its not going to be the case, if i understand what you mean
1-9 have no agony, and the monsters dont do their most annoying things
10-30 game play is pretty different and in general different
31-50 has the same enemy behaviors, but more enemies, and more damage.

It is like this:

• 1-9 have no agony but only few mobs don’t do their annoying attacks. Pretty much 95% of the rest mobs are the same as on 10+.
• 10-29 will be very similar which means linear scaling and tiered agony.
• 30-50 will have same behaviour, linear scaling but there will be mechanics like gambits, one for every level. If those “gambits” provide no challenge I fear fractals will be yet another faceroll content.

VOLKON.1290:

What is boils down to is simple. No one has earned any Fractal levels under the new challenges and difficulties beyond level 30, where the new changes take place. Allowing someone to remain at 50+ (or anything above 30 tbh) means they’re getting to those advanced levels without putting in any of the actual work required to get there under the new system. Now The past is gone. It went by like dusk to dawn. Isn’t that the way? Everybody’s got their dues in life to pay. Yeah, I know nobody knows where it comes and where it goes, I know it’s everybody’s sin you got to lose to know how to win.

I… seem to have had a flashback there.

So the solution is to undo hardwork by a minority of the player base that chose to get past 30 to please the majority of casuals?

I really don’t understand why people continue to think this is fair. Anet is intentionally resetting progress due to their own design, not a bug or exploit (I’m only talking about 30-50 here, because I don’t want to argue about 50+)

What is the difference between this, and Anet saying that they are adding PvP deathmatch, however you can only do it at 10 PvP rank and above, so everybody is being reset to 10 pvp rank to start over?

What if when they add the new WvW map, they say you have to be wvw level 10 to enjoy it, therefore all levels are reset to 10 and you star tover again?

What if they add a new dungeon at lvl 65, but in order for everybody to enjoy it, the entire player base levels’ are reset to 65 and you have to grind back up to 80.

Hint: There is no difference.

Floryn.6307:

They could have made the new post lvl 30 changes a post lvl 50 challenge, that way the majority of players would still keep their lvl. Or at least give us a choice between keeping our current level and not be on leaderboards or accept the reset and be eligible for leaderboards.

For those still confused by the New Agony slot on rings and backpacks
(here is a quick graphic representation of how I understood the changes):

Your photo appears to be inaccurate – the inflused backpiece will get a new slot just for AR infusions, and that new slot will come with a +5 AR in it (which can be upgraded to higher AR values later). You don’t lose anything, you gain the +5 you always did but now that +5 can be increased if you wish.

phys.7689:

Floryn.6307:

They could have made the new post lvl 30 changes a post lvl 50 challenge, that way the majority of players would still keep their lvl. Or at least give us a choice between keeping our current level and not be on leaderboards or accept the reset and be eligible for leaderboards.

For those still confused by the New Agony slot on rings and backpacks
(here is a quick graphic representation of how I understood the changes):

dont see the problem in the pic,

you payed 250 ecto for an extra slot, those who dont have this new slot cant put agony resistance in their gear other than versatile, might precise, etc.
essentially people who infused have extremely high AR potential, people who do not are limited to 5 per ascended peice
(And early ascended armor suggests it may not have infusion slots at all).

Yep, you are correct. Still I think we should get more from the get-go. Anyway no shame in asking. -)

@VOLKON.1290 yes the screenshot now removed the problem, you are probably still seeing the cached version.

JMar.3254:

VOLKON.1290:

What is boils down to is simple. No one has earned any Fractal levels under the new challenges and difficulties beyond level 30, where the new changes take place. Allowing someone to remain at 50+ (or anything above 30 tbh) means they’re getting to those advanced levels without putting in any of the actual work required to get there under the new system. Now The past is gone. It went by like dusk to dawn. Isn’t that the way? Everybody’s got their dues in life to pay. Yeah, I know nobody knows where it comes and where it goes, I know it’s everybody’s sin you got to lose to know how to win.

I… seem to have had a flashback there.

So the solution is to undo hardwork by a minority of the player base that chose to get past 30 to please the majority of casuals?

I really don’t understand why people continue to think this is fair. Anet is intentionally resetting progress due to their own design, not a bug or exploit (I’m only talking about 30-50 here, because I don’t want to argue about 50+)

What is the difference between this, and Anet saying that they are adding PvP deathmatch, however you can only do it at 10 PvP rank and above, so everybody is being reset to 10 pvp rank to start over?

What if when they add the new WvW map, they say you have to be wvw level 10 to enjoy it, therefore all levels are reset to 10 and you star tover again?

What if they add a new dungeon at lvl 65, but in order for everybody to enjoy it, the entire player base levels’ are reset to 65 and you have to grind back up to 80.

Hint: There is no difference.

its closer to them removing a path in a dungeon, and none of your previous work on that path is useful.
However i concede maybe the new mechanic isnt different enough to warrant that. but lets say
30 is you have to do it with poison the whole time
31 is you deal half dmg
32 is no one can be downed
33 is enemies can explode when killed

in this case, you starting at 50 would not show you have mastered the previous challenges, even if 50 was mechanically harder, you never dealt with these challenges. Is it really a good idea for you to be able to skip to the end based on a mode that was inherently different?

the real key is, how different are these challenges going to actually make the experience.
if they are negligible, then they kind of are forcing you to grind the same levels just for a leaderboard.

the other issue is that the type of difficulty you enjoyed may not be available anywhere, perhaps they should look into returning it.

JMar.3254:

This is what this boils down to.

People who are high level fotm (40+) and those that are masochist (50+) want a compensation for having their work removed.

People who have never set foot in fotm or are 30- don’t want the people that put more work into fractals and those that are more skilled than they are to be compensated. They will cry exploits (unfairly) because they have no other arguement to stand on.

If you AREN’T affected by this change, then please kindly leave and keep your unwanted opinions to yourself.

Opinions unwanted by you…or by Anet? Seems to me Anet asked for opinions.

I’m not crying that anyone is exploiting anything. I’m saying a difference that makes no difference is no difference. There’s no title for this. There’s no way to show off you did it anyway. The challenge you got out of doing it, you did presumably because you enjoyed it. I can’t imagine why anyone who didn’t enjoy it would do it.

So you got hours of enjoyment doing something and now, Anet is changing the whole thing, and you want to what? Start at the end? Not do the new content?

I’m not even sure how that makes sense.

phys.7689:

its closer to them removing a path in a dungeon, and none of your previous work on that path is useful.
However i concede maybe the new mechanic isnt different enough to warrant that. but lets say
30 is you have to do it with poison the whole time
31 is you deal half dmg
32 is no one can be downed
33 is enemies can explode when killed

in this case, you starting at 50 would not show you have mastered the previous challenges,

In that case i could just join a friend of 40 and repeat it and skip all those…. … sounds familiar to me…

JMar.3254:

So the solution is to undo hardwork by a minority of the player base that chose to get past 30 to please the majority of casuals?

I really don’t understand why people continue to think this is fair. Anet is intentionally resetting progress due to their own design, not a bug or exploit (I’m only talking about 30-50 here, because I don’t want to argue about 50+)

What is the difference between this, and Anet saying that they are adding PvP deathmatch, however you can only do it at 10 PvP rank and above, so everybody is being reset to 10 pvp rank to start over?

What if when they add the new WvW map, they say you have to be wvw level 10 to enjoy it, therefore all levels are reset to 10 and you star tover again?

What if they add a new dungeon at lvl 65, but in order for everybody to enjoy it, the entire player base levels’ are reset to 65 and you have to grind back up to 80.

Hint: There is no difference.

Well, no. The idea is to increase the challenges beyond level 30 for all players. No one today who is sitting around level 50 has done the more challenging content from 30 to 50. Although a dedicated few have indeed mastered the old system no one has even dabbled in the new one. (There’s not even any guarantees that they’ll be able to handle a system with changing challenges after having been stagnant all this time.)

Your examples… they really don’t make sense. Fractals levels allow you access to more challenging content that you’ve earned the right to access. No one yet has earned the right to access 31+ in the new Fractals system. Your examples don’t make sense because, like in Fractals, all those things allow for downscaling. Someone level 80 can go into a level 65 dungeon and enjoy it already due to downscaling. Your WvW example simply makes no sense at all. WvW is for all levels, not 80’s only (but 80 is recommended!).

LordByron.8369:

phys.7689:

its closer to them removing a path in a dungeon, and none of your previous work on that path is useful.
However i concede maybe the new mechanic isnt different enough to warrant that. but lets say
30 is you have to do it with poison the whole time
31 is you deal half dmg
32 is no one can be downed
33 is enemies can explode when killed

in this case, you starting at 50 would not show you have mastered the previous challenges,

In that case i could just join a friend of 40 and skip all those…. … sounds familiar to me…

interesting point

The funny thing is that this kittenstorm will die down within a week or two after release.
Just like the one after Ascended was announced.
After the original Fractals.
After [insert “hated” release here].

Vayne.8563:

JMar.3254:

This is what this boils down to.

People who are high level fotm (40+) and those that are masochist (50+) want a compensation for having their work removed.

People who have never set foot in fotm or are 30- don’t want the people that put more work into fractals and those that are more skilled than they are to be compensated. They will cry exploits (unfairly) because they have no other arguement to stand on.

If you AREN’T affected by this change, then please kindly leave and keep your unwanted opinions to yourself.

Opinions unwanted by you…or by Anet? Seems to me Anet asked for opinions.

I’m not crying that anyone is exploiting anything. I’m saying a difference that makes no difference is no difference. There’s no title for this. There’s no way to show off you did it anyway. The challenge you got out of doing it, you did presumably because you enjoyed it. I can’t imagine why anyone who didn’t enjoy it would do it.

So you got hours of enjoyment doing something and now, Anet is changing the whole thing, and you want to what? Start at the end? Not do the new content?

I’m not even sure how that makes sense.

Why should people who are unaffected by this change get an opinion? If you are not lvl 30, then of course you don’t care about being reset, because you AREN’T AFFECTED.

I leveled up to 48 because we were told it would be endless levels. Once they opened up the next set (50-59, 50-69, etc) then I would be right there waiting to go. I also knew that the people at 30 would have to catch up.

The work I put into 30+ is washed away. Yes I have the rewards ( a couple of skins, that’s about it) but it’s still not right to reset progression.

This is a horrible move by Anet. Again, like I said, they could have just had the new content start at 50.

The fact that the only argument is that people wouldn’t grind that thigh to experience new content, just shows that they are unfairly treating the “elitists” (as you guys like to call them) by resetting their levels to appeal to the “casuals” that are less than 30.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

I got no problem with the reset. Nice job ANet on dealing with people who exploited FoTM in the first months on release getting to lvl 80+.
I love how we’re all gonna be fair and square and hopefully no bug exploits after they patch it.

Now show your skills that you’ve all bragged about before when doing FoTM lvl 80. Lets see who’ll get there now

And what about the people who fairly got to 49?

JMar.3254:

And what about the people who fairly got to 49?

Why should they have access to the best drops without doing the harder work that new players must do?

lordkrall.7241:

The funny thing is that this kittenstorm will die down within a week or two after release.
Just like the one after Ascended was announced.
After the original Fractals.
After [insert “hated” release here].

I think you don t really know how many good players we lost that day.

Just for your info….some of them helped the community a lot.
(example the one keeping track and testing ANY single bug reported in elementalist section…..for free).

We got new players maybe but the community is far less friendly since then….maybe acoincidence or simply the change of “target audience”.

Don t think some things simply die down…they mostly bring heavy consequences….

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

How would the WvW community react if their progression was reset? How would the pvp community feel if theirs was?

you can argue with me saying that they are not equivalent, but in the end everyone determines their what progression they find important, from mini collectors to tpvp pros to elite pve guilds. Nobody wants their progression reset, regardless of what their progression is. The failure of many people to empathize with that is truly baffling to me.

A great many people highly valued the accomplishment of hitting fractal 80. even if you did it during the Search and Rescue days, or as recently as last week doing odd numbers, you still killed a boat load of insanely tough dredge. Still dodged a lot of deadly fire arrows. Still beat an brutally challenging Mossman fight dozens of times. It is no small feat, not only of skill but also endurance.

I seriously hope anet considered the blood, sweat and tears many people put into their fractal progression before they made this decision. I hope that the objections we have raised cause them to reconsider some aspects of the change, though I suspect it won’t.

Great post.

I’m level 13 Fractals, hate the stuff with a passion so repetitive and kinda pointless to me…

But those people saying its just a number you’re losing …Bzzt wrong.

Its Paying Customers time and effort getting those numbers they are losing all their work and time gone… honestly if a company did this to me i’d be gone in a shot and never look back, taking your customers hard earned work away…you deserve zero customers in my opinion.

JMar.3254:

Vayne.8563:

JMar.3254:

This is what this boils down to.

People who are high level fotm (40+) and those that are masochist (50+) want a compensation for having their work removed.

People who have never set foot in fotm or are 30- don’t want the people that put more work into fractals and those that are more skilled than they are to be compensated. They will cry exploits (unfairly) because they have no other arguement to stand on.

If you AREN’T affected by this change, then please kindly leave and keep your unwanted opinions to yourself.

Opinions unwanted by you…or by Anet? Seems to me Anet asked for opinions.

I’m not crying that anyone is exploiting anything. I’m saying a difference that makes no difference is no difference. There’s no title for this. There’s no way to show off you did it anyway. The challenge you got out of doing it, you did presumably because you enjoyed it. I can’t imagine why anyone who didn’t enjoy it would do it.

So you got hours of enjoyment doing something and now, Anet is changing the whole thing, and you want to what? Start at the end? Not do the new content?

I’m not even sure how that makes sense.

Why should people who are unaffected by this change get an opinion? If you are not lvl 30, then of course you don’t care about being reset, because you AREN’T AFFECTED.

I leveled up to 48 because we were told it would be endless levels. Once they opened up the next set (50-59, 50-69, etc) then I would be right there waiting to go. I also knew that the people at 30 would have to catch up.

The work I put into 30+ is washed away. Yes I have the rewards ( a couple of skins, that’s about it) but it’s still not right to reset progression.

This is a horrible move by Anet. Again, like I said, they could have just had the new content start at 50.

The fact that the only argument is that people wouldn’t grind that thigh to experience new content, just shows that they are unfairly treating the “elitists” (as you guys like to call them) by resetting their levels to appeal to the “casuals” that are less than 30.

But those who are under 30 at this point who might want to try to get on the leaderboard would be affected…unless there’s a way to opt out of the leaderboard, which there’s not.

Basically, though, it’s such a small pool of people who have done it, and of those people some of them have said they don’t even care…so the pool of people is even smaller.

Vayne.8563:

But those who are under 30 at this point who might want to try to get on the leaderboard would be affected…unless there’s a way to opt out of the leaderboard, which there’s not.

Basically, though, it’s such a small pool of people who have done it, and of those people some of them have said they don’t even care…so the pool of people is even smaller.

Oh, so the minority should have their time devalued to favor the majority? That seems pretty immoral.

lordkrall.7241:

JMar.3254:

And what about the people who fairly got to 49?

Why should they have access to the best drops without doing the harder work that new players must do?

Why should those at 30 have access to the best drops without putting in the work that those at 49 did?

All I’m saying is the content should have been added at 50. If you reset everybody’s progression, past 30, to 30, there should be compensation.

Why should somebody not receive compensation for having their progression nullified by resetting it?

JMar.3254:

Why should those at 30 have access to the best drops without putting in the work that those at 49 did?

All I’m saying is the content should have been added at 50. If you reset everybody’s progression, past 30, to 30, there should be compensation.

Why should somebody not receive compensation for having their progression nullified by resetting it?

They won’t.
Since the “best” drops will be available at lvl 40.
Had they not reset progress, people at lvl 50 (or higher) would have been able to get the “best” rewards without actually having to do the new harder work to get to that level.

Why should there be compensation?
Didn’t people do it for fun?
Does lowering the level somehow make those fun times less fun?

lordkrall.7241:

JMar.3254:

Why should those at 30 have access to the best drops without putting in the work that those at 49 did?

All I’m saying is the content should have been added at 50. If you reset everybody’s progression, past 30, to 30, there should be compensation.

Why should somebody not receive compensation for having their progression nullified by resetting it?

They won’t.
Since the “best” drops will be available at lvl 40.
Had they not reset progress, people at lvl 50 (or higher) would have been able to get the “best” rewards without actually having to do the new harder work to get to that level.

Why should there be compensation?
Didn’t people do it for fun?
Does lowering the level somehow make those fun times less fun?

If it starts at 50 then the best rewards won’t be at 40. Logic is hard.

So if all your toons were reset to level 1 and you could level again, that would be fine right? because those times were fun and it doesn’t devalue that fun time?

It’s like telling us “You wasted your time doing all those fractal runs”.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

It’s like telling us “You wasted your time doing all those fractal runs”.

“that we told you would be unlimited”

JMar.3254:

The work I put into 30+ is washed away…

What work exactly have you put into the new beyond level 30 content? I’m pretty sure it’s none. You claim they should make the new challenges beyond level 50 even though it’s clear that a huge portion of the community would be excluded. It should be clear by now that ArenaNet doesn’t work that way.

OK, I’ll give you that the work you put into the old system beyond level 30 is being reset. I can’t argue that. The old Fractals are being changed forever. But you’ll have the chance to excel again (if you can) with the new challenges beyond level 30 which you (or anyone) has yet to face.

I do have to wonder if some of the people so vehemently against this change are worried they won’t be able to get ahead of the pack with the new challenges. Yes, change can be unsettling, that’s for sure. But denying everyone else the experience of the new challenges because someone fears change (or the ability to face said change), hmm. (Not directed at you Mar, just a thought in general.)

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

I got no problem with the reset. Nice job ANet on dealing with people who exploited FoTM in the first months on release getting to lvl 80+.
I love how we’re all gonna be fair and square and hopefully no bug exploits after they patch it.

Now show your skills that you’ve all bragged about before when doing FoTM lvl 80. Lets see who’ll get there now

No exploits were needed to get to 80. The original guys used Revive Orbs (not an exploit) and people like me did every level from 50-80 legitimately clearing maps. Stop spreading false information.

Also, I can guarantee you, if any of the people I know who are level 80 decide to go and compete in the leaderboard system (most have either already quit or are on the verge of quitting due to the changes) they will dominate them. Anyone who can’t steamroll their 48 daily in an hour and go into 79 maps and one-shot bosses with higher damage and more health that most people wipe on at level 48 won’t stand a chance.

And the really fun part is that if – as some people are suggesting – 30-50 is equivalent to 50-80, so many of the people who are in support of everyone being scaled down are going to hate the update. They’ll wish it never happened when they realize how tough it is. Everybody will be running scale 10 hoping to get a skin, meanwhile the exact same people who are currently 80 will be sitting at 50 asking for the next challenge.

Of course, I can’t see this happening. ArenaNet mentioned fixing the difficulty curve, which sounds more like they’re making everything easier, and 50 will more likely be the equivalent of… well, 50, i.e. very easy for skilled players. This seems the most likely route they’ll take, since generally not many players do fractals anyway.

JMar.3254:

If it starts at 50 then the best rewards won’t be at 40. Logic is hard.

So if all your toons were reset to level 1 and you could level again, that would be fine right? because those times were fun and it doesn’t devalue that fun time?

But that would still make you having an easier way up to lvl 50 than new players, due to the changes of lvl 31+, unless you are suggestion that they should start with the new stuff at lvl 50+? Which doesn’t really make sense since lvl 50 is the cap.

VOLKON.1290:

JMar.3254:

The work I put into 30+ is washed away…

What work exactly have you put into the new beyond level 30 content? I’m pretty sure it’s none. You claim they should make the new challenges beyond level 50 even though it’s clear that a huge portion of the community would be excluded. It should be clear by now that ArenaNet doesn’t work that way.

OK, I’ll give you that the work you put into the old system beyond level 30 is being reset. I can’t argue that. The old Fractals are being changed forever. But you’ll have the chance to excel again (if you can) with the new challenges beyond level 30 which you (or anyone) has yet to face.

I do have to wonder if some of the people so vehemently against this change are worried they won’t be able to get ahead of the pack with the new challenges. Yes, change can be unsettling, that’s for sure. But denying everyone else the experience of the new challenges because someone fears change (or the ability to face said change), hmm. (Not directed at you Mar, just a thought in general.)

I don’t care about the leaderboards. I don’t care about how far other people go. I like the challenge and rewards.

I don’t like my work done doing those challenges to be reset, without compensation, to appease those that did not do that work.

lordkrall.7241:

JMar.3254:

If it starts at 50 then the best rewards won’t be at 40. Logic is hard.

So if all your toons were reset to level 1 and you could level again, that would be fine right? because those times were fun and it doesn’t devalue that fun time?

But that would still make you having an easier way up to lvl 50 than new players, due to the changes of lvl 31+, unless you are suggestion that they should start with the new stuff at lvl 50+? Which doesn’t really make sense since lvl 50 is the cap.

It’s the cap because they made it the cap. If it starts at 50, that would no longer be the cap. Again, logic is hard.

People who are under 30 should have to put in the same work, time, and effort that we did to get the rewards. Instead they are removing our time, work, effort to allow those that did not do the work, to share in the rewards.

JMar.3254:

It’s the cap because they made it the cap. If it starts at 50, that would no longer be the cap. Again, logic is hard.

People who are under 30 should have to put in the same work, time, and effort that we did to get the rewards. Instead they are removing our time, work, effort to allow those that did not do the work, to share in the rewards.

So you would have preferred if they released something the vast majority of the population would never experience?
Lvl 30 is fully possible to get for most people without to much fuss, but lvl 50 seems a bit extreme.

People under 30 will have to put in MORE work, time and effort in order to get to the same rewards after the patch. But are you suggesting that you should have access to rewards that others will require MORE work to get access to just because you did an easier version of it?

JMar.3254:

VOLKON.1290:

JMar.3254:

The work I put into 30+ is washed away…

What work exactly have you put into the new beyond level 30 content? I’m pretty sure it’s none. You claim they should make the new challenges beyond level 50 even though it’s clear that a huge portion of the community would be excluded. It should be clear by now that ArenaNet doesn’t work that way.

OK, I’ll give you that the work you put into the old system beyond level 30 is being reset. I can’t argue that. The old Fractals are being changed forever. But you’ll have the chance to excel again (if you can) with the new challenges beyond level 30 which you (or anyone) has yet to face.

I do have to wonder if some of the people so vehemently against this change are worried they won’t be able to get ahead of the pack with the new challenges. Yes, change can be unsettling, that’s for sure. But denying everyone else the experience of the new challenges because someone fears change (or the ability to face said change), hmm. (Not directed at you Mar, just a thought in general.)

I don’t care about the leaderboards. I don’t care about how far other people go. I like the challenge and rewards.

I don’t like my work done doing those challenges to be reset, without compensation, to appease those that did not do that work.

Did I mention leaderboards? Now, you say you like challenges, yet you’re being given the new challenges (which begin at level 30) and demanding the right to skip them or receive compensation for doing well in the older, less challenging system that’s being replaced?

OK, this could be interesting… what kind of “compensation” do you think would be fair in this case? What would be suitable compensation for you being required to enter the new challenges at the same level as everyone else instead of being able to skip the challenges and go straight to the end?

lordkrall.7241:

So you would have preferred if they released something the vast majority of the population would never experience?
Lvl 30 is fully possible to get for most people without to much fuss, but lvl 50 seems a bit extreme.

People under 30 will have to put in MORE work, time and effort in order to get to the same rewards after the patch. But are you suggesting that you should have access to rewards that others will require MORE work to get access to just because you did an easier version of it?

Why is it “more” work. It is the same work that all of us at 49+ put in.

You don’t want to do the work, but you can’t understand why we are frustrated the work we put in is being nullified?

JMar.3254:

Why is it “more” work. It is the same work that all of us at 49+ put in.

You don’t want to do the work, but you can’t understand why we are frustrated the work we put in is being nullified?

Oh, so you somehow had access to the new Instabilities from lvl 31+ MONTHS before the rest of the population?
Because that is what being added to EVERY SINGLE level after lvl 30 with the new patch.
Or are you maybe suggesting that these new instabilities will actually make it EASIER to complete Fractals?

JMar.3254:

People who are under 30 should have to put in the same work, time, and effort that we did to get the rewards. Instead they are removing our time, work, effort to allow those that did not do the work, to share in the rewards.

People under 30 will have to put in the same work, time and effort. That’s what’s happening here. The climb to 30 will be the same, then everyone has the same challenges ahead past that point. You’ll have to put in the same work going forwards against the new challenges as will someone that just climbed the ladder to 30 will. No one is getting special treatment when it comes to avoiding the new, challenging content.

VOLKON.1290:

JMar.3254:

VOLKON.1290:

JMar.3254:

The work I put into 30+ is washed away…

What work exactly have you put into the new beyond level 30 content? I’m pretty sure it’s none. You claim they should make the new challenges beyond level 50 even though it’s clear that a huge portion of the community would be excluded. It should be clear by now that ArenaNet doesn’t work that way.

OK, I’ll give you that the work you put into the old system beyond level 30 is being reset. I can’t argue that. The old Fractals are being changed forever. But you’ll have the chance to excel again (if you can) with the new challenges beyond level 30 which you (or anyone) has yet to face.

I do have to wonder if some of the people so vehemently against this change are worried they won’t be able to get ahead of the pack with the new challenges. Yes, change can be unsettling, that’s for sure. But denying everyone else the experience of the new challenges because someone fears change (or the ability to face said change), hmm. (Not directed at you Mar, just a thought in general.)

I don’t care about the leaderboards. I don’t care about how far other people go. I like the challenge and rewards.

I don’t like my work done doing those challenges to be reset, without compensation, to appease those that did not do that work.

Did I mention leaderboards? Now, you say you like challenges, yet you’re being given the new challenges (which begin at level 30) and demanding the right to skip them or receive compensation for doing well in the older, less challenging system that’s being replaced?

OK, this could be interesting… what kind of “compensation” do you think would be fair in this case? What would be suitable compensation for you being required to enter the new challenges at the same level as everyone else instead of being able to skip the challenges and go straight to the end?

I am not going to suggest any compensation that I would want because that would only lead to more arguing and belittlement.

However, I welcome the challenges that are coming. They should be at 50+, not 30+, that way levels aren’t reset.

I only mentioned leaderboards because that was Anet’s reason for resetting levels.

VOLKON.1290:

JMar.3254:

People who are under 30 should have to put in the same work, time, and effort that we did to get the rewards. Instead they are removing our time, work, effort to allow those that did not do the work, to share in the rewards.

People under 30 will have to put in the same work, time and effort. That’s what’s happening here. The climb to 30 will be the same, then everyone has the same challenges ahead past that point. You’ll have to put in the same work going forwards against the new challenges as will someone that just climbed the ladder to 30 will. No one is getting special treatment when it comes to avoiding the new, challenging content.

No, they will not.

They did not do 31-49. Just think for a second please.

I am not talking about work going forward, I am talking about nullifying work previously done by all those over 30

I am not talking about negating the new challenges. I am talking about negating the time and work done to get to 49.

lordkrall.7241:

JMar.3254:

Why is it “more” work. It is the same work that all of us at 49+ put in.

You don’t want to do the work, but you can’t understand why we are frustrated the work we put in is being nullified?

Oh, so you somehow had access to the new Instabilities from lvl 31+ MONTHS before the rest of the population?
Because that is what being added to EVERY SINGLE level after lvl 30 with the new patch.
Or are you maybe suggesting that these new instabilities will actually make it EASIER to complete Fractals?

If the new content starts at 50+, then 30-49 will be exactly the same. Logic is hard.

Stooperdale.3560:

Give these egomaniacs a title for reaching level 49 in the old system. They can all then take pride in what they’ve achieved and feel rewarded for all the time they spend being so wonderful in fractals.

Nobody else will care about it of course.

I’m sorry for being egomaniac because I value the time and effort I put into a challenge.

Also I do not want a title. I want the new content to start at 50, where it should.

JMar.3254:

If the new content starts at 50+, then 30-49 will be exactly the same. Logic is hard.

But what about those at lvl 80 then?
Why should there “hard work” be nullified?
Should we maybe start the new content at lvl 80+ for those people then?

lordkrall.7241:

JMar.3254:

If the new content starts at 50+, then 30-49 will be exactly the same. Logic is hard.

But what about those at lvl 80 then?
Why should there “hard work” be nullified?
Should we maybe start the new content at lvl 80+ for those people then?

I don’t have a preference either way. Honestly, I never went past 50 because I ‘thought’ we weren’t really supposed to. I saw the maw’s attack as a soft cap, so I stopped. I think itshould start at 50, but if they started it at 80 I would be happier than it starting at 30.

JMar.3254:

I am not going to suggest any compensation that I would want because that would only lead to more arguing and belittlement.

However, I welcome the challenges that are coming. They should be at 50+, not 30+, that way levels aren’t reset.

I only mentioned leaderboards because that was Anet’s reason for resetting levels.

If the new challenges are 50+ levels will still get reset. There are people with levels much higher than that who managed to get them before things were fixed. So you’re OK with resetting levels of people higher than you, but you don’t want your levels touched at all and everyone below you can bugger off? Seems hardly fair, does it? Why is your 50 so inviolate yet that other guy’s 81 fair game for the chopping block?

You can’t blow off accessibility. Period. You can try to wish it away, insult the 20 somethings as “casuals” or whatever, but is must be taken into consideration. Level 30 is challenging enough that a significant amount of the population can reasonably attain that level and have access to the new content, yet it’s not so easy that people can reach it with no effort at all. 50 – well, you yourself know how exclusive that particular group is with regards to the whole.

VOLKON.1290:

JMar.3254:

I am not going to suggest any compensation that I would want because that would only lead to more arguing and belittlement.

However, I welcome the challenges that are coming. They should be at 50+, not 30+, that way levels aren’t reset.

I only mentioned leaderboards because that was Anet’s reason for resetting levels.

If the new challenges are 50+ levels will still get reset. There are people with levels much higher than that who managed to get them before things were fixed. So you’re OK with resetting levels of people higher than you, but you don’t want your levels touched at all and everyone below you can bugger off? Seems hardly fair, does it? Why is your 50 so inviolate yet that other guy’s 81 fair game for the chopping block?

You can’t blow off accessibility. Period. You can try to wish it away, insult the 20 somethings as “casuals” or whatever, but is must be taken into consideration. Level 30 is challenging enough that a significant amount of the population can reasonably attain that level and have access to the new content, yet it’s not so easy that people can reach it with no effort at all. 50 – well, you yourself know how exclusive that particular group is with regards to the whole.

I saw 50 as a soft cap. I saw the agony’s maw attack as the dev’s saying “You guys shouldn’t really go past 50”. Some people didn’t see it that way, and leveled up anyay.

I personally think it should start at 50, but if it starts at 80, then I’m fine with that as well.

If level 30 is so challenging, then why should my work to do all of 30 and 40 be washed away to appease the lesser skilled player base?

JMar.3254:

Vayne.8563:

But those who are under 30 at this point who might want to try to get on the leaderboard would be affected…unless there’s a way to opt out of the leaderboard, which there’s not.

Basically, though, it’s such a small pool of people who have done it, and of those people some of them have said they don’t even care…so the pool of people is even smaller.

Oh, so the minority should have their time devalued to favor the majority? That seems pretty immoral.

I’m not sure immoral is the right word to use. There’s nothing immoral about catering to the majority if you’re a business. This isn’t taking food off someone’s table. It’s not doing physical harm to them. It’s not doing anything to them, except removing a completely arbitrary achievement that the game doesn’t even really recognize.

In your mind, this is bigger than big. You’re at this very high level. But from the point of view of the game developer and most people it’s absolutely meaningless.

Attrition mechanics exist in games for reasons. They tell you something isn’t working or shouldn’t be done.

Those who reached level 80 completely ignored the attrition mechanic.

This has nothing to do with morality. It has to do with practicality. There’s no good and evil here, only what some people want and what other people want.

Stooperdale.3560:

Give these egomaniacs a title for reaching level 49 in the old system. They can all then take pride in what they’ve achieved and feel rewarded for all the time they spend being so wonderful in fractals.

Nobody else will care about it of course.

Only they will care, judging by the sheer amount of people coming out of the woodwork trying to convince ArenaNet not to give high level fractal players any kind of unique reward. They want there to be no reward, because they can’t bare to see people with something cool that they don’t have because they weren’t skilled or dedicated enough (or just didn’t care for fractals).

The fractal reward system was notoriously bad. I’m glad they’re fixing it. But I would have expected some kind of recognition (even an achievement in the “Historical” tab that simply says “Achieved Fractal level __ before the Fractured update”), and it seems that a lot of people are terrified that somebody might have something they don’t have.

JMar.3254:

I saw 50 as a soft cap. I saw the agony’s maw attack as the dev’s saying “You guys shouldn’t really go past 50”. Some people didn’t see it that way, and leveled up anyay.

I personally think it should start at 50, but if it starts at 80, then I’m fine with that as well.

If level 30 is so challenging, then why should my work to do all of 30 and 40 be washed away to appease the lesser skilled player base?

But how is it washed away?
Does it simply come down to the fact that you are afraid that you won’t be able to complete the new more challenging lvl 31+ or what is it all about?
If you did manage to get to lvl 50 before, why won’t you be able to do it again?
Was it not done for fun?

They are adding a new reward structure, should you somehow be able to bypass the lower levels just because you were lucky enough to be part of the small minority that managed to get a stable Fractals group?

You guys seem to be very adamant and berating people with questions. Why do you guys take such an issue with us valuing our time?

Do you not understand that we invested time and work into progression, only to have it erased? Would you feel cheated if the same thing happened to you?

JMar.3254:

VOLKON.1290:

JMar.3254:

People who are under 30 should have to put in the same work, time, and effort that we did to get the rewards. Instead they are removing our time, work, effort to allow those that did not do the work, to share in the rewards.

People under 30 will have to put in the same work, time and effort. That’s what’s happening here. The climb to 30 will be the same, then everyone has the same challenges ahead past that point. You’ll have to put in the same work going forwards against the new challenges as will someone that just climbed the ladder to 30 will. No one is getting special treatment when it comes to avoiding the new, challenging content.

No, they will not.

They did not do 31-49. Just think for a second please.

I am not talking about work going forward, I am talking about nullifying work previously done by all those over 30

I am not talking about negating the new challenges. I am talking about negating the time and work done to get to 49.

Guess what. Under the new content, the content that will actually exist with the patch, you haven’t done 31 – 49 either. Yes, the levels you obtained in the old system will be going away. In the new system, the one that will actually matter, you’ve done just as much nothing as everyone else. You cannot disregard this simple, basic fact. You have not put any work at all into Fractals levels 31 – 49 under the new challenges. You haven’t beaten any of the new bosses or run any of the new Fractals on the way either. The amount of nothing you’ve done is equal to the amount of nothing I’ve done or anyone else has done with regards to the new content, and the new content is what will matter because it’ll actually be the content people have available.

JMar.3254:

You guys seem to be very adamant and berating people with questions. Why do you guys take such an issue with us valuing our time?

Do you not understand that we invested time and work into progression, only to have it erased? Would you feel cheated if the same thing happened to you?

But thats just the thing.
You DIDN’T put time and work into the NEW lvl 31-49. Because they were not released.

And WHY did you put time into it in the first place if not for the fun of it?

Well, I don’t know. 30s weren’t all that hard… This all being said, I am on one hand excited about new challenges, but on the other hand I totally understand why those at 50+ are on the verge of quitting. I’m not looking forward to pugging fractals once this patch hits. There are plenty of “scrub” players at 30 right now that I would have no desire to play with, but it will be very hard to filter pugs now, as AR won’t be really an accurate gauge (I guess, was it ever?).

The first couple weeks are going to be rough, I think, but I’m hoping that the challenges will be hard enough that the casuals duck out at 40 or so. Then we might be back to normal, if people don’t quit like they’re tempted to >.<

50 was the official (soft) cap after they realized they messed up allowing people to go to 80.

Ok, now we have an official cap.

Why would Anet not start from there and add the content they foresaw for 30-50 into 50-70 instead? This way, the official cap is extended and people see that as a good change. The ones complaining would be the ones over 50. But those people know the soft cap at 50, so they would understand.

No instead Arena Net keeps the current official cap and lowers everybody 30+ to 30 to add their new content. This doesn’t make sense. They didn’t extend the official cap: they kept it and griefed all the 30+ players.

VOLKON.1290:

Guess what. Under the new content, the content that will actually exist with the patch, you haven’t done 31 – 49 either. Yes, the levels you obtained in the old system will be going away. In the new system, the one that will actually matter, you’ve done just as much nothing as everyone else.

Do you PvP? How would you feel if they decided to change the mechanics in all of the PvP maps, and reset your rank from, say, 60 down to 10 because you earned your glory on the old versions of the maps?

What about WvW? How would you feel if when they added Bloodlust and new Mastery mechanics they downgraded your rank from 150 to 30 because you hadn’t earned your rank under the new conditions?

What about your character’s level? How would you feel if they added several new zones between level 30 and 80 and revamped existing zones, and reset your level to 30 on all characters, since you’d made no progress in the new content?

All these are just numbers, and yet somehow I doubt any player who is a hardcore PvPer/WvWer/altaholic would be okay with any of them. Pick whatever thing you like to do in-game, imagine your last ~150 hours of it was deleted with no compensation because it received some form of facelift, and then you’ll realize why so many high level fractal players are upset by this.