Guild Wars 2

VOLKON.1290:

Nephitis.8201:

Does this mean new contents are gated behind level30? If so what about players that are still haven’t done a single fractal. I always thought that you could experience all fractal content at level 1 or am i wrong?

You can experience all the different Fractals starting at one, it’s the instability that starts at 30 which adds new challenges and changes how things play that start at 30.

honestly you are lvl 28/29… you soo mad because we’re about tripple the Level you are that you want to deny us a reward if you Play mostly wvw you would be fine with a full reset of wxp on your account just because they wanna start next season on equal grounds?

it’s easy to troll other Players Progress you don’t loose anything … sooo yeah I can’t take most ppl commenting complaining about exploits and stuff seriously that never really pushed the Limits beyond 50… they just speaking about things they never saw or did and assume it are exploits because 30 was so hard for em that they can’t imagine doing higher things without an exploit.

JMar.3254:

VOLKON.1290:

Nephitis.8201:

Does this mean new contents are gated behind level30? If so what about players that are still haven’t done a single fractal. I always thought that you could experience all fractal content at level 1 or am i wrong?

You can experience all the different Fractals starting at one, it’s the instability that starts at 30 which adds new challenges and changes how things play that start at 30.

Right, so why not reset all levels to 1? You’re not allowing the majority of players to experience the content at 30. All those people under 30 or have never stepped foot into fotm won’t experience.

The people they are hurting are the ones who wanted to do fractals. If you never stepped foot into a fractal or you were only level 10, chances are you probably won’t do the new instability. The people who would grind those and play it all the time, are the players that are raging right now about having all their progress reset.

Again, if they reset them to lower I wouldn’t complain about it personally. I’d also be careful about giving ANet ideas.

But… I suspect that they want there to be a learning curve (which up to thirty pretty much covers) where people can adapt to Fractal play without having the Instability changes come along and cause confusion. You know, give players a chance to learn to clear the Dredge fractal before you make them do it hopping on one foot while swinging a dead bat over their heads.

Okay, I am above 50…I totally expected since they basically made the cap 50 that anything that was done above 50 would most likely be changed in some way when they officially went above 50.

I can also understand WHY they want to start the new content at 30. Most of the fractal runners were probably either close to or right below 30. I know all of my friends are in the 20’s…most were sitting at 29 since they only did 28’s as that was a “good” level to still get all the rewards without having to have the massive AR and be really dedicated to fractals in order to get up into the 30s and 40s (or higher). Setting the new content at 30 means more of your playerbase can enjoy that content.

But I DO NOT agree with taking away the levels of 30-50. ANET set the cap at 50….therefore 50 was the cap. If you include new content for something below that cap that you allowed players to go to then you do not take away their progress. It is simple. That minority that went to the cap should still have the advantage over everyone else….

When they changed Kessex Hills, did they take away everyones 100% world exploration for the new content? When they brought in the new Halloween event, did everyone lose their achievements from last years? Bringing in new content should not be an excuse to remove something that was legitimately done within the game. If only a minority of people did FOTM up to level 50 (or beyond) then there should be no problem with that minority having a slight advantage (able to do level 48 new content) without losing their progress.

Make the leaderboards only count when you do the new levels…or scrap the leaderboards, I don’t think anyone wants it anyways…and honestly, leaderboards on content that ends at 50 is meaningless….its like having leaderboards on a dungeon? Who cares!!!

I do think this sets a REALLY bad precedent. What happens if they change the personal story and decide that means they need to re-set everyone to level 75 to redo that? Introduce a new race? Well, that means re-set everyone to level 1 so that the new people don’t have an advantage…I know, its a straw man argument, but we do need to not allow this here to prevent even the ridiculous possibilities.

Forward progress to a level set already in the game should not be removed when new content comes out. If you let me get to 50 (or beyond) your new content starts at 50.

VOLKON.1290:

Again, if they reset them to lower I wouldn’t complain about it personally. I’d also be careful about giving ANet ideas.

Then I have nothing else to say to you, as this should never be allowed in an MMO ever.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Nephitis.8201:

Does this mean new contents are gated behind level30? If so what about players that are still haven’t done a single fractal. I always thought that you could experience all fractal content at level 1 or am i wrong?

You can experience all the different Fractals starting at one, it’s the instability that starts at 30 which adds new challenges and changes how things play that start at 30.

honestly you are lvl 28/29… you soo mad because we’re about tripple the Level you are that you want to deny us a reward if you Play mostly wvw you would be fine with a full reset of wxp on your account just because they wanna start next season on equal grounds?

it’s easy to troll other Players Progress you don’t loose anything … sooo yeah I can’t take most ppl commenting complaining about exploits and stuff seriously that never really pushed the Limits beyond 50… they just speaking about things they never saw or did and assume it are exploits because 30 was so hard for em that they can’t imagine doing higher things without an exploit.

Hey, um… Patrikan? Between you and me… I don’t care what level you are. I don’t care how many skins you have, or rings, or other ascended doodads. I don’t care how many stacks of relics you have. None of what you have or have accomplished affects my game personally. If you have it all I’m quite happy to pat you on the back and say ‘Well done’ while I do my own thing. I try to think in a broader sense than “me” if I can. I can see where a reset to thirty to access the new challenges makes sense and gives greater accessibility to the new challenges to a much larger group of players. I can see that this benefits the game as a whole and I recognize that there’s a vocal minority that for some odd reason feel personally slighted. I think those hardcore types from the old Fractals should get a little something that they can show to boast their progress from the old style. Seems like a great idea to me, and again, won’t affect my game at all.

Eh… you really think I’m mad at you because of your level?

I’m really puzzle at people’s moral compass. It seems that they do not understand the “who is next” principle. It’s not OK to do that to a majority but it’s OK to do it to a minority? Wow.

SkyChef.5432:

I’m really puzzle at people’s moral compass. It seems that they do not understand the “who is next” principle. It’s not OK to do that to a majority but it’s OK to do it to a minority? Wow.

Exactly. This could happen in PvP, WvW, character level.

Every time I say “how would it feel if your [insert one above] was reset” the reply is always “It’s different” or they ignore it.

It shouldn’t be okay for the company that made the design mistake to punish the players for it.

Maybe what they should do is release the 3 new fractals under a different ruleset and instance. Leave the old fractals exactly the way they are and showcase it like a museum.

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Nephitis.8201:

Does this mean new contents are gated behind level30? If so what about players that are still haven’t done a single fractal. I always thought that you could experience all fractal content at level 1 or am i wrong?

You can experience all the different Fractals starting at one, it’s the instability that starts at 30 which adds new challenges and changes how things play that start at 30.

honestly you are lvl 28/29… you soo mad because we’re about tripple the Level you are that you want to deny us a reward if you Play mostly wvw you would be fine with a full reset of wxp on your account just because they wanna start next season on equal grounds?

it’s easy to troll other Players Progress you don’t loose anything … sooo yeah I can’t take most ppl commenting complaining about exploits and stuff seriously that never really pushed the Limits beyond 50… they just speaking about things they never saw or did and assume it are exploits because 30 was so hard for em that they can’t imagine doing higher things without an exploit.

Hey, um… Patrikan? Between you and me… I don’t care what level you are. I don’t care how many skins you have, or rings, or other ascended doodads. I don’t care how many stacks of relics you have. None of what you have or have accomplished affects my game personally. If you have it all I’m quite happy to pat you on the back and say ‘Well done’ while I do my own thing. I try to think in a broader sense than “me” if I can. I can see where a reset to thirty to access the new challenges makes sense and gives greater accessibility to the new challenges to a much larger group of players. I can see that this benefits the game as a whole and I recognize that there’s a vocal minority that for some odd reason feel personally slighted. I think those hardcore types from the old Fractals should get a little something that they can show to boast their progress from the old style. Seems like a great idea to me, and again, won’t affect my game at all.

Eh… you really think I’m mad at you because of your level?

There is never a reason to reset legit Progress of Players in an MMO it doens’t help the MMO because you can’t trust them if they just ever do it again delete what your worked for. some ppl just don’t seem to be able to understand that it’s not just about FotM but about the MMO as whole

Moshari.8570:

I do think this sets a REALLY bad precedent.

This – and not the level change itself – is the main reason I’m currently strongly considering quitting the game permanently. It has become quite clear over the past year that ArenaNet march to their own beat in many ways. In some parts of the game, that’s a very good thing. In others, it has people like me (and many people I speak to) scratching our heads in disbelief that a company like them could make such blunders in judgement. I’ve never seen an MMO literally erase your accomplishments without any real compensation before. It’s mind-boggling.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Nephitis.8201:

Does this mean new contents are gated behind level30? If so what about players that are still haven’t done a single fractal. I always thought that you could experience all fractal content at level 1 or am i wrong?

You can experience all the different Fractals starting at one, it’s the instability that starts at 30 which adds new challenges and changes how things play that start at 30.

honestly you are lvl 28/29… you soo mad because we’re about tripple the Level you are that you want to deny us a reward if you Play mostly wvw you would be fine with a full reset of wxp on your account just because they wanna start next season on equal grounds?

it’s easy to troll other Players Progress you don’t loose anything … sooo yeah I can’t take most ppl commenting complaining about exploits and stuff seriously that never really pushed the Limits beyond 50… they just speaking about things they never saw or did and assume it are exploits because 30 was so hard for em that they can’t imagine doing higher things without an exploit.

Hey, um… Patrikan? Between you and me… I don’t care what level you are. I don’t care how many skins you have, or rings, or other ascended doodads. I don’t care how many stacks of relics you have. None of what you have or have accomplished affects my game personally. If you have it all I’m quite happy to pat you on the back and say ‘Well done’ while I do my own thing. I try to think in a broader sense than “me” if I can. I can see where a reset to thirty to access the new challenges makes sense and gives greater accessibility to the new challenges to a much larger group of players. I can see that this benefits the game as a whole and I recognize that there’s a vocal minority that for some odd reason feel personally slighted. I think those hardcore types from the old Fractals should get a little something that they can show to boast their progress from the old style. Seems like a great idea to me, and again, won’t affect my game at all.

Eh… you really think I’m mad at you because of your level?

There is never a reason to reset legit Progress of Players in an MMO it doens’t help the MMO because you can’t trust them if they just ever do it again delete what your worked for. some ppl just don’t seem to be able to understand that it’s not just about FotM but about the MMO as whole

All the legitimate progress of players with regards to Fractals and the new Instability content is currently at fractal level 30.

JMar.3254:

SkyChef.5432:

I’m really puzzle at people’s moral compass. It seems that they do not understand the “who is next” principle. It’s not OK to do that to a majority but it’s OK to do it to a minority? Wow.

Exactly. This could happen in PvP, WvW, character level.

Every time I say “how would it feel if your [insert one above] was reset” the reply is always “It’s different” or they ignore it.

It shouldn’t be okay for the company that made the design mistake to punish the players for it.

It goes deeper than just a game. People use the same brain & principles in their lives. Not just only in game.

VOLKON.1290:

All the legitimate progress of players with regards to Fractals and the new Instability content is currently at fractal level 30.

I have legitimate progress from lvl 31-upper 40s. I should not be punished because anet chooses to implement instability at 30.

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Nephitis.8201:

Does this mean new contents are gated behind level30? If so what about players that are still haven’t done a single fractal. I always thought that you could experience all fractal content at level 1 or am i wrong?

You can experience all the different Fractals starting at one, it’s the instability that starts at 30 which adds new challenges and changes how things play that start at 30.

honestly you are lvl 28/29… you soo mad because we’re about tripple the Level you are that you want to deny us a reward if you Play mostly wvw you would be fine with a full reset of wxp on your account just because they wanna start next season on equal grounds?

it’s easy to troll other Players Progress you don’t loose anything … sooo yeah I can’t take most ppl commenting complaining about exploits and stuff seriously that never really pushed the Limits beyond 50… they just speaking about things they never saw or did and assume it are exploits because 30 was so hard for em that they can’t imagine doing higher things without an exploit.

Hey, um… Patrikan? Between you and me… I don’t care what level you are. I don’t care how many skins you have, or rings, or other ascended doodads. I don’t care how many stacks of relics you have. None of what you have or have accomplished affects my game personally. If you have it all I’m quite happy to pat you on the back and say ‘Well done’ while I do my own thing. I try to think in a broader sense than “me” if I can. I can see where a reset to thirty to access the new challenges makes sense and gives greater accessibility to the new challenges to a much larger group of players. I can see that this benefits the game as a whole and I recognize that there’s a vocal minority that for some odd reason feel personally slighted. I think those hardcore types from the old Fractals should get a little something that they can show to boast their progress from the old style. Seems like a great idea to me, and again, won’t affect my game at all.

Eh… you really think I’m mad at you because of your level?

There is never a reason to reset legit Progress of Players in an MMO it doens’t help the MMO because you can’t trust them if they just ever do it again delete what your worked for. some ppl just don’t seem to be able to understand that it’s not just about FotM but about the MMO as whole

All the legitimate progress of players with regards to Fractals and the new Instability content is currently at fractal level 30.

wooow you can really not get it right? it hasn’t to do with fractals old or new stuff but a game Company take away a legit Progress you made in a game doens’t matter if item / skill / exp whatever they take it away for no reason

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Nephitis.8201:

Does this mean new contents are gated behind level30? If so what about players that are still haven’t done a single fractal. I always thought that you could experience all fractal content at level 1 or am i wrong?

You can experience all the different Fractals starting at one, it’s the instability that starts at 30 which adds new challenges and changes how things play that start at 30.

honestly you are lvl 28/29… you soo mad because we’re about tripple the Level you are that you want to deny us a reward if you Play mostly wvw you would be fine with a full reset of wxp on your account just because they wanna start next season on equal grounds?

it’s easy to troll other Players Progress you don’t loose anything … sooo yeah I can’t take most ppl commenting complaining about exploits and stuff seriously that never really pushed the Limits beyond 50… they just speaking about things they never saw or did and assume it are exploits because 30 was so hard for em that they can’t imagine doing higher things without an exploit.

Hey, um… Patrikan? Between you and me… I don’t care what level you are. I don’t care how many skins you have, or rings, or other ascended doodads. I don’t care how many stacks of relics you have. None of what you have or have accomplished affects my game personally. If you have it all I’m quite happy to pat you on the back and say ‘Well done’ while I do my own thing. I try to think in a broader sense than “me” if I can. I can see where a reset to thirty to access the new challenges makes sense and gives greater accessibility to the new challenges to a much larger group of players. I can see that this benefits the game as a whole and I recognize that there’s a vocal minority that for some odd reason feel personally slighted. I think those hardcore types from the old Fractals should get a little something that they can show to boast their progress from the old style. Seems like a great idea to me, and again, won’t affect my game at all.

Eh… you really think I’m mad at you because of your level?

There is never a reason to reset legit Progress of Players in an MMO it doens’t help the MMO because you can’t trust them if they just ever do it again delete what your worked for. some ppl just don’t seem to be able to understand that it’s not just about FotM but about the MMO as whole

All the legitimate progress of players with regards to Fractals and the new Instability content is currently at fractal level 30.

I’m pr 49, what’s your point? It’s as legit as it could be by your definition. Indeed, i’m not happy with the downgrade regardless.
It just ain’t right wiping progress like that.

The way i see it, aanet is telling us to leave the game. Plain and simple.
So no point for us giving feedback, it’s not like they are going to change their mind. We are minority lol. I for once actually a paying customer btw, lol (not a free leech). Whatever …

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

Actually, a lot of us in the dungeon forum did complain. I, and a lot of others, adored forward up. Just sayin’

If it is all fair to the players who are arguing that this should not be a big deal, then what about this? How about Everyone above 50 gets reduced to 50 (probably 1% of the players), everyone who was 50 and below simply loses 20 levels….that way it is a fair drop for everyone! If you were level 30, you are now level 10. If you were 38 your 18, if you were 50 you are now 30.

Hey, if its fair to drop the top people 20 levels (since all the content is currently at 30 that was previously at 50) it should be fair to drop EVERYONE 20 levels and make even the people who are currently rushing to get to 30 this week lose 20 levels….and if you just happened to be at 20 or below…you start over.

How would the people who think this is “fair” feel then?

VOLKON.1290:

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

You might have done if they’d removed all TA tokens from people’s accounts, all gear purchased with TA tokens, and reset people entire Dungeon Master achievement.

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

Because no1 gives a crap about that TA path in the first place. TA is a dungeon, it isn’t structured like fractal, progressive. Pfft … fail analogy m8.

Moshari.8570:

If it is all fair to the players who are arguing that this should not be a big deal, then what about this? How about Everyone above 50 gets reduced to 50 (probably 1% of the players), everyone who was 50 and below simply loses 20 levels….that way it is a fair drop for everyone! If you were level 30, you are now level 10. If you were 38 your 18, if you were 50 you are now 30.

Hey, if its fair to drop the top people 20 levels (since all the content is currently at 30 that was previously at 50) it should be fair to drop EVERYONE 20 levels and make even the people who are currently rushing to get to 30 this week lose 20 levels….and if you just happened to be at 20 or below…you start over.

How would the people who think this is “fair” feel then?

I wondered about this. Are players who have only gone up to 30 actually ready for lvl 30 new fractals? They likened the 30-39 difficulty to current 40s, so I’m just wondering if those at 30 really ought to go down a few levels…. I don’t know!!!

It’s very weird. And confusing.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

Actually, a lot of us in the dungeon forum did complain. I, and a lot of others, adored forward up. Just sayin’

^^this. AND, you should notice that when ANET did get rid of the F/U in TA that they did NOT remove peoples dungeon master titles or completion of TA. Forward progress was not removed. A method of that progress was changed.

TA is more of an example of how this should be done. There, they removed one path, put in a new one…but didn’t change peoples progress that had already been made. That would be the same as if here, they changed levels 30-50 but left everyone at their current Personal reward level. The Method of that progress is changed, but the progress itself is not erased.

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

If they reset the Dungeon Master Title, what do you think you will hear?

JMar.3254:

SkyChef.5432:

I’m really puzzle at people’s moral compass. It seems that they do not understand the “who is next” principle. It’s not OK to do that to a majority but it’s OK to do it to a minority? Wow.

Exactly. This could happen in PvP, WvW, character level.

Every time I say “how would it feel if your [insert one above] was reset” the reply is always “It’s different” or they ignore it.

It shouldn’t be okay for the company that made the design mistake to punish the players for it.

I’ve been pretty much silent reading this thread, but I feel at this point I will pop up and say “I agree.” This is not the first time we are seeing something just get deleted (TA f/u anyone? And that was recent!) Its true, it is easy to say “that’s different” right now when the analogies are given.

While I know there are some under 30 who don’t like the idea of people losing those levels, and I know there are some above 30 that are ok with it… it still seems clear that for the most part, those under 30 are the “this is fine with me” group, and the ones above are the “no, this is not okay” group. I mean yeah this is obvious, but I’m still stating it.

So what about when your ideal/challenging/fun niche in this game is partially deleted? Be is WvW, sPvP, Dungeons, skin collecting, whatever. Is it still different? What with the outrage when the TA path was lost (still don’t know why the new one wasn’t just added as a fourth path) and now this… if it continues to happen, well, I guess I’m just saying this is a slippery slope. And needs to stop.

SkyChef.5432:

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

If they reset the Dungeon Master Title, what do you think you will hear?

A lot of kitten hisses and meows from people who spent hard earned gold buying their slots ^.^

SkyChef.5432:

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

If they reset the Dungeon Master Title, what do you think you will hear?

What, if they took the title away and said ‘You need to run this path to get it back’? There’d have been some complaining, then people would have done it, stopped complaining and moved on.

Just like every release.

Bigger Picture concern:

What happens in the MMO community when word gets out that a developer decided to change dungeon mechanics (Fractals), then de-leveled their customer base to make them run it again?

Do you call that a reset? It wasn’t gear. It wasn’t a title.

How do you explain to potential new customers that this is not something they should worry about?

Should you be concerned that the game will get a reputation?

Understand, that ANet just did something in the MMO industry no one else has ever done before because it is unthinkable.

Were these questions even considered in their decision to make this change?

VOLKON.1290:

SkyChef.5432:

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

If they reset the Dungeon Master Title, what do you think you will hear?

What, if they took the title away and said ‘You need to run this path to get it back’? There’d have been some complaining, then people would have done it, stopped complaining and moved on.

Just like every release.

I didn’t say they said “You need to run this path to get it back”. Since the new path is level 80, that means they could said everyone would be reset to 55 and all dungeons above 55 are not accessible and need to re run again. But they didn’t right? If they did, then what do you think you will hear?

SkyChef.5432:

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

If they reset the Dungeon Master Title, what do you think you will hear?

If they changed the entire structure of dungeons, redid all the fights and added in new mechanics then I would hope they would reset the title so it was still meaningful.

Additionally they should reset the tokens, BUT give people at least a weeks notice to spend the current tokens, and introduce new rewards for the new tokens.

Same with world exploration. If they introduce a new area everyone should lose their title until they finish exploring the new area. The rewards however should not be taken away, the reward was for a set of goals which those players achieved, the title and rank is for showing your completion/progress which can come and go as the content changes and as such should be removed as content changes/expands.

goldenwing.8473:

Bigger Picture concern:

What happens in the MMO community when word gets out that a developer decided to change dungeon mechanics (Fractals), then de-leveled their customer base to make them run it again?

Do you call that a reset? It wasn’t gear. It wasn’t a title.

How do you explain to potential new customers that this is not something they should worry about?

Should you be concerned that the game will get a reputation?

Understand, that ANet just did something in the MMO industry no one else has ever done before because it is unthinkable.

Were these questions even considered in their decision to make this change?

You didn’t take into account the herd’s mentality so if MMO industry considers that’s cool and a new way to bring in more revenue, it will become the norm. And people will take it as usual.
For those who don’t have a confused moral compass, at least you know your principle is sound and you stand for it. Even in a losing battle.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

SkyChef.5432:

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

If they reset the Dungeon Master Title, what do you think you will hear?

If they changed the entire structure of dungeons, redid all the fights and added in new mechanics then I would hope they would reset the title so it was still meaningful.

Additionally they should reset the tokens, BUT give people at least a weeks notice to spend the current tokens, and introduce new rewards for the new tokens.

Same with world exploration. If they introduce a new area everyone should lose their title until they finish exploring the new area. The rewards however should not be taken away, the reward was for a set of goals which those players achieved, the title and rank is for showing your completion/progress which can come and go as the content changes and as such should be removed as content changes/expands.

Thank goodness your not in charge of the game… you kill your player base off faster then you can blink.

Regardless of what you and other’s think people still earned what they have and to magically wipe it away is just wrong.

I give a real world example lets say Anet (the company) decided that since they where revamping fractals and making all these changes to the game. That there current employee’s who worked on the previous fractal content no longer deserved there paychecks they earned at that time. The content they created is obviously to be scraped. There for there time was of zero value to the company. They send each employee a notice saying they will no longer be paid for x amount of time to compensate the company for said wasted time.

I bet you the entire company would be outrage not just those workers losing there paychecks. Why because it sets a precedence for it to happen anywhere in the company.

I cant stand these people who are will it dont affect me so … yea I dont care. It does affect you sooner or later and when it does you have no one to blame but your selfs and you deserve every single bit of it.

goldenwing.8473:

Bigger Picture concern:

What happens in the MMO community when word gets out that a developer decided to change dungeon mechanics (Fractals), then de-leveled their customer base to make them run it again?

Do you call that a reset? It wasn’t gear. It wasn’t a title.

How do you explain to potential new customers that this is not something they should worry about?

Should you be concerned that the game will get a reputation?

Understand, that ANet just did something in the MMO industry no one else has ever done before because it is unthinkable.

Were these questions even considered in their decision to make this change?

Indeed. It baffles me how they would actually do this. In a genre where if you lose your playerbase, you will eventually lose your game (look what happened to Warhammer Online), doing stuff like this is, as you put it, “unthinkable”.

I can already name off the top of my head at least 5 people from my “close friends” in-game who are strongly considering quitting over this. And the dangerous thing is that it’s not an “emotional” (i.e. rage) quit, it’s more of a reasoned “I seriously cannot believe they are doing this… I think it’s time to find a new game, because this really is too much” perspective on the whole thing.

I’m in the same boat. I’ve pretty laid back about a lot of the stuff I didn’t like in GW2, continuing to play even when some fairly silly decisions were made (like giving away thousands of precursors at the karka event, making the “one time only, buy them now or miss your chance forever!” weapon skins tradeable, etc.) but ultimately as a player you have to draw the line somewhere. I think for myself and many others, this is probably the line. If they’ll delete so much hard work like it’s nothing, I don’t think I’ll ever feel like working on something difficult in-game again. And if I feel like that, then there will be no point in continuing to play.

First they came for the dungeon elitist so but I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t one.
….
Then they came for me
And there was no one left to speak for me.

This is sort of how I look at it, let’s all show a little love for all of our community members… This game should be about the community, not about all the fighting…

Edit: yay I broke the thread!

Mental note- Necro this thread in January to see how utterly absurd it is in hindsight.

Nike.2631:

Mental note- Necro this thread in January to see how utterly absurd it is in hindsight.

Because most of the players in it wont be in the game anymore?

Because ANET will change their minds and not do this to their playerbase?

Because you have just been reduced to level 60 after they released a piece of new content and “80 is just a number?” so they reduced everyone to start all over in the new cursed shore and you wondered when it all started to go wrong?

I’m curious? What is absurd about players not wanting to lose something they worked hard for?

<Sorry developers I didn’t mean to drag this thread down, we should be concentrating on constructive criticism and not responding to trolls>

Moshari.8570:

<Sorry developers I didn’t mean to drag this thread down, we should be concentrating on constructive criticism and not responding to trolls>

Yeah, Moshari, get with it! Hehe <33333x a million

Because if you have the skill and wherewithal to climb the existing personal rewards mountain, you’ll be able to do it again, and position yourself to go even higher when they formally unlock the beyond 50 levels.

Because for every person who is as good at fractals as they claim, it means this is a comparatively minor setback that paves the way to future glory.

Because if you like fractals enough to have such enormous ratings, you should be so excited that your part of the game is finally getting some love that clinging to your old score really ought to be the last thing on your mind.

That’s not exactly what is happening, in fact it’s not even close.

The difficulty of fractal level 50 is now level 30, rewards from level 30-50 will now be rewards from level 10-30, and a new mechanic, new rewards, and new difficulty level is all being placed in level 31-50 with a reward and difficulty curve leaning more heavily towards the end of the scale, rewarding topped out players much more than they were previously.

Why is this so bleeding hard to understand?

Your analogy is nonsensical, what this would actually be equivalent to:

ANet reset everyone down to level 45, including all level 80 content, no stat changes, what was level 80 is now level 45. New cycles of the old content, and some new content, is all available for levels 46-80. While the max level is still 80, stats continue scaling to new heights, all levels from 46-80 will now be more difficult with the scale leaning heavily towards 80, and will provide more rewards and mechanics in proportion to that new difficulty scale, rewarding players further for topping out at 80.

Pretty much everyone defending this patch has only one fractal character, and that character is below 50. Probably don’t even do 48 dailies.

If the reset was down 20 levels flat even the l25 nabs saying the reset is a good thing would turn on anet.

Nike.2631:

Because if you have the skill and wherewithal to climb the existing personal rewards mountain, you’ll be able to do it again, and position yourself to go even higher when they formally unlock the beyond 50 levels.

Great, just have to wait another year till the next fractal update then!

Because for every person who is as good at fractals as they claim, it means this is a comparatively minor setback that paves the way to future glory.

We could go straight to 80 after patch too – if there wasn’t an artifical cap. Now the hardest thing in PvE is a 50. Wow. Real hard. /yawn

Nike.2631:

Because if you have the skill and wherewithal to climb the existing personal rewards mountain, you’ll be able to do it again, and position yourself to go even higher when they formally unlock the beyond 50 levels.

Because for every person who is as good at fractals as they claim, it means this is a comparatively minor setback that paves the way to future glory.

Because if you like fractals enough to have such enormous ratings, you should be so excited that your part of the game is finally getting some love that clinging to your old score really ought to be the last thing on your mind.

If you have the Patient to work for somthing a legenary leveling up whatever you have the Patient to do it agian… please there is no logic behind? you could take this Argument for all work done in the world and just destory eveyrone’s work on everything and just saying heeeey… whats your Problem you have built a house.. we destroyed it but if you really love to have a house you can do it again.. seems fair:)

aelfwe.4239:

This debate is really pointless.

I will not say that people reached level 80 fotm gratz to exploit but i challenge every single player who said in this thread to have reached level 80 in a legit way with no trick to link in this thread a fraps video of a legit level 7x maw done “as intended”.

with regards, i’m waiting

Player actually videod the hard parts of the high scales not the easy part maw was the easy part I can link you Videos on 81 and 80 volcanic / archdiviner without bugs and exploits…

here you go…

can you stop blaming me and others of beeing exploiters and instead think for a second and realize that the move they make is way deeper than just deleting a number or whatever : They want to delete somthing Players worked hard for! If we really love this game we should stand up and help em not doing this mistakes and going in this direction. If the CDI really is here they should listen to us and answer our question to they’re reasoning behind . so we can argue about it get a solution together… instead they might just be sitting back laughing how they’re Player base is insulting one another.

WOW 14 pages so far. Enjoy your reset. Leader boards are not going to entice casual players, they won’t have the time or possibly skill to compete here. There will be some exceptions to this but on the whole it’s kinda pointless. Those at the top already will simply re-climb.

Haven’t really seen anything reward wise for the work involved that makes me think I’ll want to do this more than a handful of times.

I love the QQ in this thread though.

Okay constructive

I wont comment on the leaderboards because I think they are silly for a dungeon…even fractals dungeon

I’ve seen a number of ideas to appease the high level fractal players:

Not everyone likes all of these, and not everyone likes any of these:

1: a title: A title for those who made it to the ‘arguably official’ cap of 50 and one for those who went over the cap to show their accomplishments after those accomplishments are taken away. This is a glory appeasement.

2: Something to show we were there first: Make our backpieces glow differently or add flags or something to them, make our weapons different than the new fractal weapons. Something to show the old vs the new. This is a visible appeasement.

3: Rather than simply lowering the high level fractal levels…lower EVERYONE’s levels by 20…basically, the new level 30 becomes the old 50. If you were above 50, you are at 50…50 is the new cap so even if you were at 80, you are at 50. This is a “fairness” appeasement.

4: Give people gold / chests / gems / ascended weapons / etc… for every level they lose from the update. This is a “Monetary” appeasement.

5: Rather than go off of PRlevel, to be fair to the people that did countless level 48’s, look at peoples over-all fractal runs (this stat is in the game)…and grant a reward based on their total fractal runs prior to the new fractals implemented (this is a “global” appeasement) and this reward could be any of the other appeasements.

6: Leave peoples levels where they are. It is a small percentage of players who are probably at 48, and a smaller percentage who have gone beyond that. Lock any further progress at 50 and leave everyone at their current levels…it honestly would not break the game having this small percentage stay where they are. They still have to play the new content to get their daily chests. The would still have to play the new content to be on the leaderboard. I don’t even know what to call this appeasement.

Other ideas that could be thrown out there for discussion?

VOLKON.1290:

SkyChef.5432:

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Why didn’t they reset the achievement points when they added the AP reward system and leaderboard? In fact they went the other way around and they retroactively rewarded us.

If they didn’t do it then, there is no reason to do it here.

So, what exactly do you think should be your reward for doing pre-Instability Fractals then?

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

If they reset the Dungeon Master Title, what do you think you will hear?

What, if they took the title away and said ‘You need to run this path to get it back’? There’d have been some complaining, then people would have done it, stopped complaining and moved on.

Just like every release.

TA and fotm are two different dungeons.

even the new TA is very short. It took me about 3 runs to get 100% of the achieve that came along with it. That is less than 4 hrs to do 3 total runs.

while FOTM at lvl 50+ took hours and hours to achieve, so you are saying, we the MINORITY of the game who took hours and hours of our time to play the game get reset? just because it is ANET’s mistake of designing their game?

I was one of those fotm lvl 50+ guys that are ok with the new changes. But after reading many of the posts, I feel that it is just not ok for ANET to do this to their customers.

I mean if I buy an appliance at a store, say a washing machine. The company that made the washing machine made a mistake, and recall all of the washing machine to replace with new and improved washing machine. The consumers do not suffer from the call back because it is the company’s mistake.

After some more thought about it, here’s how I feel regarding the level reset from a different standpoint:

Imagine a new game with this scenario: You buy the game because it promises “unlimited stages!” and “Increasing difficulty with each stage, how high can you get?” After playing the game for a while, you realize that there are two forms of difficulty, a number modifier and actual game difficulty. After you hit stage 50, you realize that the number modifier stops working. But you keep playing until you get to stage 85, then turn the game off. The next time you turn it on, for some reason you’re on stage 80 again. “But I thought there was unlimited stages?” Then you notice that it still says your “highest stage reached” was 85. Okay, so there’s a buffer. The high score is unlimited, but 80 is the highest starting point. So you play around and the max number you ever get to is 92, because that’s how skilled you are and stage 93 is just too hard for you.

Then all of a sudden the makers of the game tell you “Sorry, we didn’t realize that people were going to take the term unlimited stages seriously. The maximum stage right now is supposed to be 50. We’ll fix the later stages eventually, but for now, stop at 50. But if you passed 50, we’re not taking away what you’ve already done, we’re just stopping progress by only letting you play odd numbered stages past 48.” So you continue playing on stage 79, because that’s the highest level you can actually play anymore, but you’re much more skilled than stage 49, so you don’t want to go back to such a low stage.

Then the game makers tell you. “Okay, we fixed the problem with the stages. 50 really truly is the max now, and we’re getting rid of all the high scores of people that got past 30, because you weren’t supposed to go past 50. But we’re changing levels 31-50 to make to make up for it.” So all of a sudden, your high score is gone. All record of your progress to stage 92 and all the hard work you spent is just gone. And to make matters worse, you play the new levels 31-50 and they’re so easy for you that you can’t even enjoy it, and there’s no way to increase the difficulty.

What really is the issue here? In my opinion, the real issue is the false advertising and going back on their word. It was supposed to be a game with “Unlimited levels” that caters to everyone because you can pick your own difficulty. But really, there was two hidden level caps, one at 50 and one at 80. So now they’re getting rid of that and making something with a finite end. That’s not what they promised when they made the game, they promised an endless challenge.

This is exactly the scenario that Arena Net did. Attached is proof- a screenshot of the initial November 2012 update where Fotm first came into existence. The fact that they’re changing this means that their word can’t be trusted, and this isn’t the only occurrence of this- it’s happened repeatedly. They also promised there would be no more sudden changes that affected the economy without warning (When karma jugs were changed), and then just recently Champion boxes were nerfed without warning- without even mention of it in the patch notes. So before you say “it’s just fotm, it doesn’t affect me” That’s bullkitten. It affects all of us, because the issue is that they lie to us, stating facts and making promises and then going back on their word. Then they compliment that by taking away progress of players who go against what their new decisions are.

AtriustheGod.6785:

After some more thought about it, here’s how I feel regarding the level reset from a different standpoint:

Imagine a new game with this scenario: You buy the game because it promises “unlimited stages!” and “Increasing difficulty with each stage, how high can you get?” After playing the game for a while, you realize that there are two forms of difficulty, a number modifier and actual game difficulty. After you hit stage 50, you realize that the number modifier stops working. But you keep playing until you get to stage 85, then turn the game off. The next time you turn it on, for some reason you’re on stage 80 again. “But I thought there was unlimited stages?” Then you notice that it still says your “highest stage reached” was 85. Okay, so there’s a buffer. The high score is unlimited, but 80 is the highest starting point. So you play around and the max number you ever get to is 92, because that’s how skilled you are and stage 93 is just too hard for you.

Then all of a sudden the makers of the game tell you “Sorry, we didn’t realize that people were going to take the term unlimited stages seriously. The maximum stage is supposed to be 50. But we’re not taking away what you’ve already done, we’re just stopping progress by only letting you play odd numbered stages past 48.” So you continue playing on stage 79, because that’s the highest level you can actually play anymore, but you’re much more skilled than stage 49, so you don’t want to go back to such a low stage.

Then the game makers tell you. “Okay, we fixed the problem with the stages. 50 really truly is the max now, and we’re getting rid of all the high scores of people that got past 30, because you weren’t supposed to go past 50.” So all of a sudden, your high score is gone. All record of your progress to stage 92 and all the hard work you spent is just gone. And to make matters worse, you play the new level 50 and it’s so easy for you that you can’t even enjoy it, and there’s no way to increase the difficulty.

What really is the issue here? In my opinion, the real issue is the false advertising and going back on their word. It was supposed to be a game with “Unlimited levels” that caters to everyone because you can pick your own difficulty. But really, there was two hidden level caps, one at 50 and one at 80. So now they’re getting rid of that and making something with a finite end. That’s not what they promised when they made the game, they promised an endless challenge.

This is exactly the scenario that Arena Net did. Attached is proof- a screenshot of the initial November 2012 update where Fotm first came into existence. The fact that they’re changing this means that their word can’t be trusted, and this isn’t the only occurrence of this- it’s happened repeatedly. They also promised there would be no more sudden changes that affected the economy without warning (When karma jugs were changed), and then just recently Champion boxes were nerfed without warning- without even mention of it in the patch notes. So before you say “it’s just fotm, it doesn’t affect me” That’s bullkitten. It affects all of us, because the issue is that they lie to us, stating facts and making promises and then going back on their word. Then they compliment that by taking away progress of players who go against what their new decisions are.

yes, I completely agree with your entire post. It is ANET’s fault for selling revive orbs, it is their fault for false advertisement, so why do we the consumers has to suffer?

In the end they won’t care because we are the minority of the game that actually do lvl 50+ fotm. They won’t lose that much customers. This is how I feel about this situation.

AtriustheGod.6785:

it promises “unlimited stages!” and “Increasing difficulty with each stage, how high can you get?”

Ironic that they broke the promise in that patch, since that patch is the one where they first broke one of their promises and added a gear treadmill.

Fractals will get a bad name since every time there’s a major change to it anet breaks a promise.

well I still have hopes high that the community actually realizes that they should Support us and that we arn’t the bad guys so we can Change somthing…