Guild Wars 2

But the changes I proposed can overcome the people trying to skyrocket the prices.
They have limited ways to change their price (only a small percentage of it max), and can do so only once every few months. If their price is too high it will take them years to get back to normal price (and they would have payed a bigger tax than if they just priced it right). They then might consider listing their item out, and reposting it by repaying a full tax.

And laokoko, in your answer you’re basically blaming the OP’s decision, but not at all developping why my answer results in “bad game design” while I’m developping why it wouldn’t affect the current trends of the TP.

And now imagine the situation where 150 persons have the same price on the TP. Some 10 or 20 maybe will have their item sold out while the others have to wait. Meanwhile someone undercut them, but does that mean they weren’t in the right price range ? No. They just didn’t have the priority on the sales at that time. They were just unlucky. Now they decide to leave their item there, stop playing and come back few months later to see the prices dropping.
If it’s not a big change, they can somewhat adjust their price (they’ve still paid a bigger tax than the others). If the gap is too wide, they either relist, or make the change over few more months.
They are still penalized, but it’s less radical.

I think it’s the part where Anet have to overwhole their whole database and add time stamp to items just because a few people complaint about listing fee (where they could easily avoid by selling cheaper or to the buy order).

Even many of the players arn’t very supportive. They could have sold to my buy order, why do they sell so high.

Tabootrinket.2631:

And laokoko, in your answer you’re basically blaming the OP’s decision, but not at all developping why my answer results in “bad game design” while I’m developping why it wouldn’t affect the current trends of the TP.

It’s a bad game design because Anet probably have better things to do than dealing with “very few whinners” who complain about listing fee because they keep trying to undercut people by low amount.

Basically OP like orange, someone like apple. You can’t really compare what people prefer.

If you don’t realize many people actually don’t like the system OP or you proposed. You can’t really ask me why I don’t like your system right? I just dont’ like it. Mostly because it is risk vs rewards. You can risk it by selling high or playing safety by undercut more. It’s fun to me.

We need listings to have to be increased/decreased by 5% increments or something before this is feasible. Imagine going to car/property/fine arts auction where people bid in pennies.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

We need listings to have to be increased/decreased by 5% increments or something before this is feasible. Imagine going to car/property/fine arts auction where people bid in pennies.

Sell orders could have a “Relist to lowest” button, I suppose, but only if it had a 10% listing fee (rounded up) of the difference. So, imagining an array of the following:
600g
594g
588g
582g
the person at 600g could relist to match the lowest at 582g. With a difference of 18g in price, the relist fee would be 1.8g instead of 29.1g for a new listing. Or 20% of the difference, perhaps? 3.6g in the example. If it sells at 582g, the total fee paid would only be an additional .6%, which is extremely polite when looking at it from a list-relist perspective.

That would likely drive market prices down more quickly, while sapping those who overbid repeatedly. It could make rare item markets more responsive to actual demand, though I’m certainly not committed to the idea.

I have no sympathy for people who are trying to sell a legendary, but can not afford the listing costs. No more than I feel sorry for someone trying to buy a million dollar house when they earn minimum wage at their job, complaining they can’t make their payments after putting their life savings into the down payment.

Biohazard.7523:

Ask them to do forum trade, where people will list expensive products. So if someone wants to buy it, they will reply.
You can earn full amount of money that way.
If the scam happens employers can return your product, because you have evidence on forum.

That is incorrect. If a scam happens and you report it you do not get your gold or your item back. They will sanction the person scamming you but will not do any refunds.
They’ve already said they want all trades to go through the trading post.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Biohazard.7523:

Ask them to do forum trade, where people will list expensive products. So if someone wants to buy it, they will reply.
You can earn full amount of money that way.
If the scam happens employers can return your product, because you have evidence on forum.

That is incorrect. If a scam happens and you report it you do not get your gold or your item back. They will sanction the person scamming you but will not do any refunds.
They’ve already said they want all trades to go through the trading post.

They will also infract your account for trading on the forums.

Vikkela.7261:

Siphaed.9235:

Apparently this player spent 200g on listing a Legendary for 2,000g (most likely undercutting others already listed). More people posted up the same Legendary at a cheaper price than his, thus his won’t sell. Now he wants the ability to change his original price without penalty or fee so that he can undercut those that undercut him.

Yes, it is as silly as it sounds.

I’m a bit confused, why is it silly for a salesman to rearrange his pricing and offer his goods for the same/a lower price as his competitors?
He has already lost the 200g and would lose additional money by taking it away from his possible profit?

That’s the price he pays for being too greedy. If he had listed his Legendary at 100g less (which is, by the way, due to the tax fee, only a 85g possible income loss compared to his original price), he’d likely have sold it and not lost 200g.

In short, if you try to gain more, you risk losing more. In order to minimize that risk, you need to be satisfied with lower gain (with selling at buy order giving 100% safety). OP wants to increase his profit without risk. This is not going to happen.

As a consumer I believe this is an awesome idea. Competition in the market place is healthy and is designed to benefit the consumer-not the seller. If someone has already paid the listing price at the higher price point there’s no reasonable purpose to charge a second fee simply to lower their offer price.

If you’re worried about undercutting, then I don’t see why the listing fee is something you’re concerned about – the listing fee is precisely what keeps older sell orders from constantly undercutting you.

No, the real problem here is something no one else seems to have touched upon. 200g for a listing fee at a 5% rate means that OP tried to charge 4K gold for a Legendary. I’m not sure the system is the problem here >_>

Nothing wrong with the current approach … other than people don’t learn how it works before spending 200G to post an item. Frankly, the fee is there to curb undercutting .. the very thing leading the OP to complain and suggest changing it’s structure; shows a definite lack of understanding why the TP works the way it does.

If there is any improvement to suggest, Anet implement a better tutorial on how the fees on the TP work (if they already have that, I’ve long forgotten it’s there). There is no change that would fix the real issue here; people aren’t going to stop posting their selling prices for excessive amounts when they want a fast sale.

Gaviston Hawkington.9647:

As a consumer I believe this is an awesome idea. Competition in the market place is healthy and is designed to benefit the consumer-not the seller. If someone has already paid the listing price at the higher price point there’s no reasonable purpose to charge a second fee simply to lower their offer price.

They already had the opportunity to sell at a lower price, when they made their first listing and they chose not to.

First I’m absolutely in favor for this system. It will be favorable for the seller and the buyer. The buyer will get the advantage of lower prices (since people are more likely to undercut his opponent), the seller gets the advantage of having the option to take a cheaper risk by placing a higher sell offer (they can’t exagurate too much because they still pay based on their highest selling offer). Eventually the price will become ‘balanced’.

Also I find saying that undercutting is out of the question and then ‘blaming’ the OP for placing at a too high price, is hypocritical. If you are being undercut then it just means you have have placed it a too high price, you’re own fault.

Wanze.8410:

They already had the opportunity to sell at a lower price, when they made their first listing and they chose not to.

So? Why should they pay an additional fee on top of the money they already lost? The person who placed it at the right value is still better off since his listing fee is still smaller.

Tim.6450:

Wanze.8410:

They already had the opportunity to sell at a lower price, when they made their first listing and they chose not to.

So? Why should they pay an additional fee on top of the money they already lost? The person who placed it at the right value is still better off since his listing fee is still smaller.

because they want an advantage to reposition themselves in the market after others have posted their goods, that’s why. The Op’s example is a good one. He realized he wasn’t going to make a sale in his desired timeframe because of poor pricing. He will have pay the relist fee for the opportunity to change that and price more competitively. He’s actually recommending a system that works AGAINST his complaint that he was undercut. It’s rather nonsensical IMO.

Frankly, there doesn’t need to be a reason to justify leaving it the way it is. It’s up to the people supporting the suggestion to say why it needs to change. “Because I screwed up” isn’t that good a reason.

Tim.6450:

First I’m absolutely in favor for this system. It will be favorable for the seller and the buyer. The buyer will get the advantage of lower prices (since people are more likely to undercut his opponent), the seller gets the advantage of having the option to take a cheaper risk by placing a higher sell offer (they can’t exagurate too much because they still pay based on their highest selling offer). Eventually the price will become ‘balanced’.

Also I find saying that undercutting is out of the question and then ‘blaming’ the OP for placing at a too high price, is hypocritical. If you are being undercut then it just means you have have placed it a too high price, you’re own fault.

In fact, the OP is the hypocritical side because he want to maximize his profit while other people not selling their stuffs out. Basically whether the listing fee is free or not does not matter, what matter is that he wants his stuffs sold while others don’t. But realistically everyone thinks like him, so it’ll ended up being who is more no-life, and able to undercut others more frequently.

Toxsa.2701:

because they want an advantage to reposition themselves in the market after others have posted their goods, that’s why. The Op’s example is a good one. He realized he wasn’t going to make a sale in his desired timeframe because of poor pricing. He will have pay the relist fee for the opportunity to change that and price more competitively. He’s actually recommending a system that works AGAINST his complaint that he was undercut. It’s rather nonsensical IMO.

The problem (from what I get from his post) is not that he is constantly undercut, the problem is that he can’t readjust his price that is conform with the market, without paying a huge sum of gold.

Toxsa.2701:

Frankly, there doesn’t need to be a reason to justify leaving it the way it is. It’s up to the people supporting the suggestion to say why it needs to change. “Because I screwed up” isn’t that good a reason.

See my first post for reason why I believe this will be a good idea.That bein said the counter-argument against this is actually undercutting which is the same as “will screw up” which isn’t a good reason either.

But realistically everyone thinks like him, so it’ll ended up being who is more no-life, and able to undercut others more frequently.

Yes in the first stages prices will drop, but it will reach a point where the supply for that price is lower then the demand. So the price will rise again which means that his stuff will be sold.

Tim.6450:

Toxsa.2701:

because they want an advantage to reposition themselves in the market after others have posted their goods, that’s why. The Op’s example is a good one. He realized he wasn’t going to make a sale in his desired timeframe because of poor pricing. He will have pay the relist fee for the opportunity to change that and price more competitively. He’s actually recommending a system that works AGAINST his complaint that he was undercut. It’s rather nonsensical IMO.

The problem (from what I get from his post) is not that he is constantly undercut, the problem is that he can’t readjust his price that is conform with the market, without paying a huge sum of gold.

Yes. In this way, he is incentivized to not go for maximum possible profit, but to pay attention to the possible risks as well (which promotes moderate sell prices). In the free price reduction system however, the cost for “getting it wrong” would be much lower, which would make more people willing to gamble with overinflated sell prices.

[Original Poster’s Comments]
It’s comical how people keep thinking that OP is a greedy fool who wants to find ways to undercut people’s price just because his selling a legendary weapon at a high price. Serves him right and he should pay the price.

You guys should understand the market is not fixed, it fluctuates according to Anet’s announcement. I simply list an item at the lowest selling price when the market is doing well for legendary. [ Supply low, demand high] But after a few annoucements made by Anet like the Wardrobe System, Precursor Crafting and New Legendary, the market for legendary weapons start to fall. [ Supply high, demand low].

It is okay for prices to be undercut because of the way how Trading Posts works. But take a look at the situation in trading posts for expensive items. Many people are unable to sell off those items because there is little flexibility in readjusting the prices. That is why most item prices look unreasonably high. What I am proposing is to give sellers a leeway to readjust to the market condition. Undercut will still happen but it’s healthy for the market. Both buyers and sellers will benefit from it. (Why? Refer to my previous post)

Instead of arguing how stupid OP is to list a legendary, why not spare a thought for those sellers who are affected by market fluctuation instead of penalizing them? Anet has a timestamp on TP, they can allow people to readjust the prices when things could not be sold for period of time. (Few months maybe?)

P.S I’m not against the trading post fees, because it is good to cope inflation. But making suggestions to improve the Trading Post should be fine right? So it creates a win-win situation for all. Don’t be so hateful of everything people speaks please. Thanks

Seems to me that would only shift the problem, if people could relist without an additional charge. If I’m trying to sell and OP Is trying to sell and he pulls and relists his at a lower price, which means mine won’t sell now, then I’ll pull mine and relist it below his price. The others who are also trying to sell, will likely relist theirs since they can do so with no or little penalty.

I don’t think it would turn out like OP wants.

Tim.6450:

Toxsa.2701:

because they want an advantage to reposition themselves in the market after others have posted their goods, that’s why. The Op’s example is a good one. He realized he wasn’t going to make a sale in his desired timeframe because of poor pricing. He will have pay the relist fee for the opportunity to change that and price more competitively. He’s actually recommending a system that works AGAINST his complaint that he was undercut. It’s rather nonsensical IMO.

The problem (from what I get from his post) is not that he is constantly undercut, the problem is that he can’t readjust his price that is conform with the market, without paying a huge sum of gold.

Isn’t that just the same thing, said a different way? Conforming to the market is exactly why he’s in the mess he is in now. If someone wants to sell something worth 1000’s of G, they better do some kitten research before posting it, something the OP obviously didn’t do.

OP is looking to remove the risk from high end trading. Why humour him? He attempted to sell beyond what was reasonable (otherwise the item would have sold) and is now sitting on an item that won’t move until the supply side of the supply:demand is reduced to the point where his item is the least costly.

Also, I have zero sympathy for someone who isn’t going to make as much “projected” profit. That’s an accounting system that’s accepted for corporations but no private entity on the planet.

Though, as an aside, could you imagine filing your taxes the way that corporations deal with their earnings?

“I had hoped to make $900,000 this year. Unfortunately, my income only comes to $60,000. Therefore I have suffered a $840,000 loss.”

Don’t make changes to allow for stupid people to keep being stupid.

Cry.5679:

[Original Poster’s Comments]
It’s comical how people keep thinking that OP is a greedy fool who wants to find ways to undercut people’s price just because his selling a legendary weapon at a high price. Serves him right and he should pay the price.

You guys should understand the market is not fixed, it fluctuates according to Anet’s announcement. I simply list an item at the lowest selling price when the market is doing well for legendary. [ Supply low, demand high] But after a few annoucements made by Anet like the Wardrobe System, Precursor Crafting and New Legendary, the market for legendary weapons start to fall. [ Supply high, demand low].

---

It is okay for prices to be undercut because of the way how Trading Posts works. But take a look at the situation in trading posts for expensive items. Many people are unable to sell off those items because there is little flexibility in readjusting the prices. That is why most item prices look unreasonably high. What I am proposing is to give sellers a leeway to readjust to the market condition. Undercut will still happen but it’s healthy for the market. Both buyers and sellers will benefit from it. (Why? Refer to my previous post)

Instead of arguing how stupid OP is to list a legendary, why not spare a thought for those sellers who are affected by market fluctuation instead of penalizing them? Anet has a timestamp on TP, they can allow people to readjust the prices when things could not be sold for period of time. (Few months maybe?)

P.S I’m not against the trading post fees, because it is good to cope inflation. But making suggestions to improve the Trading Post should be fine right? So it creates a win-win situation for all. Don’t be so hateful of everything people speaks please. Thanks

All good points. Here is your solution: check on gw2spidy or similar site what the last actual transactions for your item were instead of relisting for 1 copper less then the next highest Sell Order.

The system is fine as is. Removing the fees or implementing the changes will just create a situation where more no-life = better. That is not even touching on the subject of bots.

Obtena.7952:

Isn’t that just the same thing, said a different way? Conforming to the market is exactly why he’s in the mess he is in now. If someone wants to sell something worth 1000’s of G, they better do some kitten research before posting it, something the OP obviously didn’t do.

Because market’s can fluctuate very easily especially around products with low chance of occurence like precursors and legendaries. I bought a precursor in one evening while being 100 G under the highest buyer (I offered 500ish G so he offered 20% more). So being able to lower the price would be very nice. Another example was the chaos of lyssa price drop.

Cyninja.2954:

All good points. Here is your solution: check on gw2spidy or similar site what the last actual transactions for your item were instead of relisting for 1 copper less then the next highest Sell Order.

The system is fine as is. Removing the fees or implementing the changes will just create a situation where more no-life = better. That is not even touching on the subject of bots.

Strange that you complain about him not doing market research. While in the next paragraph you are against it because other people not doing market research. Also there is a point where undercutting/ no life will result in more demand then supply which result inhigher prices so no life/undercutting will have only result in a better speed of selling.

Astralporing.1957:

Yes. In this way, he is incentivized to not go for maximum possible profit, but to pay attention to the possible risks as well (which promotes moderate sell prices). In the free price reduction system however, the cost for “getting it wrong” would be much lower, which would make more people willing to gamble with overinflated sell prices.

Yes but the ease of undercutting will make prices drop faster, so it evens out. In fact prices will propably move faster to market conform position this way.

I think that if you sell to the highest buyer you shouldn’t have to pay the listing fee, since your not really listing it, and you get way less gold than you would actually listing it. So to make up for the gold loss, just take away the cost cause your not really listing it, your sending it straight to someone

Tim.6450:

Cyninja.2954:

All good points. Here is your solution: check on gw2spidy or similar site what the last actual transactions for your item were instead of relisting for 1 copper less then the next highest Sell Order.

The system is fine as is. Removing the fees or implementing the changes will just create a situation where more no-life = better. That is not even touching on the subject of bots.

Strange that you complain about him not doing market research. While in the next paragraph you are against it because other people not doing market research. Also there is a point where undercutting/ no life will result in more demand then supply which result inhigher prices so no life/undercutting will have only result in a better speed of selling.

Nice how you put words in my mouth. Knowing or following the market is not = being online ingame 24/7. Especially with expensive slow moving goods. Nice try though.

Good move on sidestepping the bot argument too. Removing listing fees or substantially reducing them WILL make bots even more useful than they are now.

Cyninja.2954:

Tim.6450:

Cyninja.2954:

All good points. Here is your solution: check on gw2spidy or similar site what the last actual transactions for your item were instead of relisting for 1 copper less then the next highest Sell Order.

The system is fine as is. Removing the fees or implementing the changes will just create a situation where more no-life = better. That is not even touching on the subject of bots.

Strange that you complain about him not doing market research. While in the next paragraph you are against it because other people not doing market research. Also there is a point where undercutting/ no life will result in more demand then supply which result inhigher prices so no life/undercutting will have only result in a better speed of selling.

Nice how you put words in my mouth. Knowing or following the market is not = being online ingame 24/7. Especially with expensive slow moving goods. Nice try though.

Good move on sidestepping the bot argument too. Removing listing fees or substantially reducing them WILL make bots even more useful than they are now.

Actually knowing or following the market means that you place the right price for the product. Being constantly undercut means you did not place the right price.

Also for the bots I considered you meant something about placing the right selling order by constantly monetoring and undercut when his price is undercut. So it fell under my second sentence.