Guild Wars 2

so what ive gathered from what everyone has said is, put massive amounts of effort to do minute painstakeing tasks, or farm massive amounts of money to do the things i want….

sooooo where am i supposed to farm for this?

I’m happy for the op that it was a “slap in the face”, after reading the post it was well deserved, it’s a video game not the second coming

Sekai.5708:

DusK.3849:

They touched on a power plateau at max level around the time they had the ele reveal. Countless blogs and discussions in the years after that. You mean to tell me that somehow, when you “read everything on their site plus a couple reviews and beta videos”, you somehow missed all of that?

Here’s a link to a blog post by Colin touching on how a gear treadmill will not be in the game.

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

Here’s Colin Johanson and Eric Flannum in a video a few weeks before release talking about endgame.

So basically, yes, ArenaNet has said gear progression past max level will not be in the game. So if you bought this game expecting a gear treadmill, you might as well go out and buy Battlefield 3 expecting it to be Quake-esque arena shooter since you insist on being an uninformed consumer.

Correct. I did not read two random blogs released just prior to the game before buying it. I read what was on the main website, specifically the dungeons section which is very much in contrast to “aesthetics only,” and did a couple hours of research otherwise, most of it before June 19th, which would make coming across that information rather unlikely. Calling anyone that didn’t hunt down every last blog about the game uninformed consumers is ridiculous, and judging by your other posts in this thread you are either a rabid fanboy or a bad troll anyway, so kindly take it elsewhere. Neither I nor the OP nor many of the people concerned about the lack of endgame are saying GW2 is a bad game, but we would rather not see it be the next Warhammer, which is what it will be without some form of post-80 character progression. That actually does include things outside of the “gear treadmill”. AA/skill points that only work in certain areas so as to keep pvp balanced, heroic bonuses that only apply to heroic dungeons, there are numerous possibilities that could be implemented with minimal effort and without disrupting the other aspects of the game.

There was no post level 20 progression in GW1 either. Only cosmetic progression.

So just.. deal with it. There won’t be any power increase after level 80. Which I’m really glad I’m tired of games where I have to endlessly chase new carrot to be on pair with everyone. I have no incentive to do it nor time.

If you want endless progression. Go play WoW, RIFT, Everquest and countless other MMOs.

Just to be honest. In those above games, there was nothing to do. I said because I feeel like it. It was nothing to do for me. I haven’t even break 100h played in any in those games.
While in GW1 i have closely to 800h played (not that much compared to others have 3000h), and in GW2 I have now close to 140h played and I’m still not bored.

iniside.4736:

Sekai.5708:

DusK.3849:

They touched on a power plateau at max level around the time they had the ele reveal. Countless blogs and discussions in the years after that. You mean to tell me that somehow, when you “read everything on their site plus a couple reviews and beta videos”, you somehow missed all of that?

Here’s a link to a blog post by Colin touching on how a gear treadmill will not be in the game.

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

Here’s Colin Johanson and Eric Flannum in a video a few weeks before release talking about endgame.

So basically, yes, ArenaNet has said gear progression past max level will not be in the game. So if you bought this game expecting a gear treadmill, you might as well go out and buy Battlefield 3 expecting it to be Quake-esque arena shooter since you insist on being an uninformed consumer.

Correct. I did not read two random blogs released just prior to the game before buying it. I read what was on the main website, specifically the dungeons section which is very much in contrast to “aesthetics only,” and did a couple hours of research otherwise, most of it before June 19th, which would make coming across that information rather unlikely. Calling anyone that didn’t hunt down every last blog about the game uninformed consumers is ridiculous, and judging by your other posts in this thread you are either a rabid fanboy or a bad troll anyway, so kindly take it elsewhere. Neither I nor the OP nor many of the people concerned about the lack of endgame are saying GW2 is a bad game, but we would rather not see it be the next Warhammer, which is what it will be without some form of post-80 character progression. That actually does include things outside of the “gear treadmill”. AA/skill points that only work in certain areas so as to keep pvp balanced, heroic bonuses that only apply to heroic dungeons, there are numerous possibilities that could be implemented with minimal effort and without disrupting the other aspects of the game.

There was no post level 20 progression in GW1 either. Only cosmetic progression.

So just.. deal with it. There won’t be any power increase after level 80. Which I’m really glad I’m tired of games where I have to endlessly chase new carrot to be on pair with everyone. I have no incentive to do it nor time.

If you want endless progression. Go play WoW, RIFT, Everquest and countless other MMOs.

GW1 also had enough content to support the original intention and had Replayable content. Also it wasnt NEARLY as bogged down with anti farming codes. Please actualy know what your talking about before you say it. Ive played every single one of those mmo’s, gw2 at its core, is actualy a worse grind because we cant actualy farm.

Aven.7295:

iniside.4736:

Sekai.5708:

DusK.3849:

They touched on a power plateau at max level around the time they had the ele reveal. Countless blogs and discussions in the years after that. You mean to tell me that somehow, when you “read everything on their site plus a couple reviews and beta videos”, you somehow missed all of that?

Here’s a link to a blog post by Colin touching on how a gear treadmill will not be in the game.

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

Here’s Colin Johanson and Eric Flannum in a video a few weeks before release talking about endgame.

So basically, yes, ArenaNet has said gear progression past max level will not be in the game. So if you bought this game expecting a gear treadmill, you might as well go out and buy Battlefield 3 expecting it to be Quake-esque arena shooter since you insist on being an uninformed consumer.

Correct. I did not read two random blogs released just prior to the game before buying it. I read what was on the main website, specifically the dungeons section which is very much in contrast to “aesthetics only,” and did a couple hours of research otherwise, most of it before June 19th, which would make coming across that information rather unlikely. Calling anyone that didn’t hunt down every last blog about the game uninformed consumers is ridiculous, and judging by your other posts in this thread you are either a rabid fanboy or a bad troll anyway, so kindly take it elsewhere. Neither I nor the OP nor many of the people concerned about the lack of endgame are saying GW2 is a bad game, but we would rather not see it be the next Warhammer, which is what it will be without some form of post-80 character progression. That actually does include things outside of the “gear treadmill”. AA/skill points that only work in certain areas so as to keep pvp balanced, heroic bonuses that only apply to heroic dungeons, there are numerous possibilities that could be implemented with minimal effort and without disrupting the other aspects of the game.

There was no post level 20 progression in GW1 either. Only cosmetic progression.

So just.. deal with it. There won’t be any power increase after level 80. Which I’m really glad I’m tired of games where I have to endlessly chase new carrot to be on pair with everyone. I have no incentive to do it nor time.

If you want endless progression. Go play WoW, RIFT, Everquest and countless other MMOs.

GW1 also had enough content to support the original intention and had Replayable content. Also it wasnt NEARLY as bogged down with anti farming codes. Please actualy know what your talking about before you say it. Ive played every single one of those mmo’s, gw2 at its core, is actualy a worse grind because we cant actualy farm.

GW1 had less content than GW2. If claim otherwise. You just haven’t been here from start or you memory working in really picky manner.
What you cloud do in GW1 ?
Complete Missions.
Do Quests (less than Events in GW2).
Do PvP. I can agree that there was more PvP Modes on start (HA, RA, and GvG).
Ohhh.. And that’s it.

The reason WoW never appealed to me was because the journey to max level was incredibly boring. People said to me “but it gets better after that!!”, but when I really looked into it, I did not see any fun in endgame content either. Leveling up was grinding mobs to get XP, endgame was grinding mobs to get gear. It bored me to tears after level 20.

I’m personally convinced that people only continued playing because they payed a monthly subscription and “their money would go to waste because they didnt play”. Because honestly – why play thekittenthing? Still, there must have been something right about WoW endgame content, because apparently it’s still popular. But if any other game would give you hours and hours of tedious grind only to find more annoying grind at the end, would you buy it?

I have played GW2 for about 100 hours now, and I’m level 70. I know I’ll reach level 80 in about 10-20 more hours of playing, but after that, I’m still not finished with the game. I still need to to the dungeons (yes, even the first one, because my guildies level way, waaay much slower than me and I don’t want to play with PUGs), I want to master WvW, I want to have 100% map completion, I have done only one jumping puzzle, I haven’t maxed out my cooking yet… Oh yeah, I do want a legendary somewhere in the future, but I’m not going to actively work toward that yet. Instead, I want to collect all minipets available in the game using only ingame gold.

So, with my little to-do list I can imagine myself playing for many, MANY more hours after reaching level 80. Endgame really is what you want it to be. But if you are looking for the “classic” WoW endgame – you will probably be disappointed. But for me, that actually is a huge blessing.

I guess the only fault Anet has is allowing players to get to level 80 so fast.
What were you thinking? In one month? Even a lot less for some.

OP’s title is literally the only thing I can agree with (either due to differing views or lack of experience on OP’s side), and ‘frustration’ is an excessively strong word seeing as plenty of Level 80 content will be added over the next year, not to mention years. Just start an alt or put the game down for a few weeks or months, and jump in again when you feel like it. This is the true benefit of the lack of a monthly fee.
For everything else he mentioned, I’m so glad the game isn’t catering to people like him.

Sometimes I really think they could have done like another mmos, do only one line full of grind until max level and put all the world content in the dungeons so they could say “look we got lot o dungeons!”.
Gw2 do not have endgame nor endless raids to be “something” in pvp. If you say “grind” for tokens I say its not necessary so its not grind. Its something you WANT but not NEED.
Endgame start in lvl 1, do all events run through the world, search new things to do, I doubt you have done all random events that happens across all the maps. (Thats one of the reason you can downlvl)
If they have done “max level” in level 20 people would say “wow how much endgame content” because they still thinking endgame is thekittenlevel, not the game it self. Every game has a “end” even the grind ones, deal with it unless you want grind all the way because it maybe be looks more “challenger”.
People still seeing gw2 with “another mmos eyes” and do not try to understand the game.

By the way I can agree with torneys in spvp, but I warn you that even with a rank system match it would happens too.

In WvWvW give time to time, theres lot of new people that do not know what to do.
If they do mess with zerg partys just take advantage of this while you can, and I can say that even zergs in the right time is about strategy.

Learn one thing, you just CAN NOT control all the time the way players play, so its not a flaw of the game at all.

Well. The lack of traditional endgame content doesn`t bother me that much. I can still go and kill in other zones and still have somewhat of a challenge. Even though at 80 there really isn`t a point. I can focus on completing the map or tradeskilling. I like to explore and uncover things so that part isn`t bad. I usually always crafted in games up until I crafted in aion and then after I started to hate crafting after that.

What I would like to see is some sort of character progression system for pve. I don`t wvw knowing that i will probably lose more money then I would be able to make so that`s out of the question. But I notice even after you reach lvl 80 tyou keep getting skill points. Maybe possibly in the future they could introduce some kind of AA type system that would let you spend 5 skill points to get 1 extra trait point. Let the players build up thier characters to increased power, after all if it a “play your way type system” is it not? At least I would have something more to do and some more goals to look forward to besides just uncovering a map or an endless mat farming experience.

I also think it`s funny that alot of people will always tell others to go play other games if they don`t like this or that about this one. If I was Anet I would listen carefully to what the people are asking for. Because the diehards that sit there and play for extended sessions per day are usually the ones who will sink the most money into a game because they have something to do and they like what they are doing. And we know Anet wants to make some profit with tp.

On the way to 80 I had a blast doing the story. I would just like to see more progression, not make alts to keep going through the same thing.

I really don’t understand why people are saying there are no endgame in Guild Wars 2.
The endgame is everywhere, how can you say there is none?

After you reached level 80, you are at almost 30% of map exploration, this means that there is 60% of contents left to explore.

There are also 8 dungeons with 4 routes each (as far I know, story + explorable), with a total of 32 effective different dungeons.

There is a load of rare gear to craft or to search, in order to make you character appear as you really want to.

There are 7 other professions with different playstyle to master after you mastered yours.

There are a lot of combinations of personal storylines which fork many times depending on the decions you make.

There is WvWvW and sPvP where you have to master your profession to an higher level to be competitive.

There is all the gear to unlock in sPvP.

There are a lot of bosses to defeat around the world to get unique gear.

Probably there is something I forgot to mention, but all I’ve listed is enough to me to say that Guild Wars 2 has an huge endgame.

Exploration is something that happens while completing an objective. The objective shouldn’t be exploration itself. I just played an hour of Pac-Man. Sure I explored the levels, but would anyone in their right mind play Pac-Man with the intention to explore each level?
The art in GW2 is amazing. I like it quite a bit, and it adds heavily to the experience. If GW2 was an art gallery I would be pleased to explore it. GW2 is not an art gallery… it is a game. An MMO to boot.

I think alot of people knew there wouldnt be any gear grinding or raiding.

Problem is, that most thought ANet would have something else for us, but there arent.
Its just like any other mmo – the raiding. So theres much less.

WvW is borked with the nightcapping and queues, sPvP gets tedious after 10 rounds.

Other then that, there just completing 100% of the map and doing the massive dungeons grind, which was the boring part in traditional mmos and a thing you had to do to gear up for tier 1 raiding in the first place.

I hope ANet comes up with something, becouse right now, i thought SWToR had little endgame content, but ANet beat them. Everything feels very meaningless in GW2, you not getting anything or doing anything for anything other then looks.

Yes, fun for me is character progression, beating hard content with my friends and boasting, i knew GW2 wouldnt have much of that but i expected something else waiting for me at 80 to keep me going.

Character progression after 80 was never advertised, nobody who likes this game expected it either. The game itself is about being in it, doing whatever you find fun. If endlessly getting stronger is fun then hey, go do grind in some game. AoC has a great progression system that begins at 40 and literally has you play for at least a year to fully complete. It also has raids that almost nobody can beat and almost nobody tries to beat, get some friends and do character progression there. No, honestly I recommend it. I played AoC since launch, enjoyed it a lot.

Right now, I am tired of the constant grind to become bigger, better, faster, stronger… It’s just boring and doesn’t get you anywhere. Sure, hey I got these gear stats and these abilities now, it took me three months of grinding these 5 dungeons, hundreds of hours of non-stop ganking the same mobs over and over, and now with tactics posted over at my forum I can beat this boss with my raid-team… Woot! Because you, noob, you need to get better gear and stats before you can.

No, the fun I see in GW2 is exactly the opposite. The lack of gear grind/stat grind/lots of progression systems, and the focus on diversity in a well established system of traits and skills. It gives you the ability to test out play styles, continuously improve on it. No worries that your gear is a few levels off or green, because you can still run that dungeon and beat that boss.

Or in sPvP, striving to get the upperhand in 1on1s, damage testing, build testing, running tournaments and winning.

Or in WvW just trying to sabotage the enemy alone without running into anyone or running in smaller parties trying to take over castles and supply camps.

…Or attempting to find suits of armours and dyes that makes you look really cool, and then parade down the streets of LA.

Now that is GW2s fun defined for me!

Instead of complaining that there’s no character progression and that they can’t make their character more powerful because there’s no gear, why don’t people work at progressing their own skill instead?

It’s far more impressive to perform better in dungeons and pvp due to player skill than it is to do so because of a gear crutch.

A guy who solo’s 50% of a boss, kiting like a pro while everyone else is dead is a lot more memorable than some dude spamming autoattacks that hit like a truck because he outgears the instance.

Jesus wept. Look, I wasn’t particularly into GW, so not an Anet fanboi, and was only peripherally aware of GW2 (checked out maybe a couple of articles and a Youtube vid or two) and actually distrusted the massive hype buildup.

But even I knew there would be no “endgame” as in traditional MMOs!

There is endgame…its just not your Everquest clone raids….the endgame ROCKS….trust me im 80 and still having a blast on my 80 doing world event bosses and events with massive fights etc….its epic and still feels epic….if you cannot find something to do at 80 your doing it wrong…..

iniside.4736:

Aven.7295:

iniside.4736:

Sekai.5708:

DusK.3849:

They touched on a power plateau at max level around the time they had the ele reveal. Countless blogs and discussions in the years after that. You mean to tell me that somehow, when you “read everything on their site plus a couple reviews and beta videos”, you somehow missed all of that?

Here’s a link to a blog post by Colin touching on how a gear treadmill will not be in the game.

Colin Johanson

Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.

Here’s Colin Johanson and Eric Flannum in a video a few weeks before release talking about endgame.

So basically, yes, ArenaNet has said gear progression past max level will not be in the game. So if you bought this game expecting a gear treadmill, you might as well go out and buy Battlefield 3 expecting it to be Quake-esque arena shooter since you insist on being an uninformed consumer.

Correct. I did not read two random blogs released just prior to the game before buying it. I read what was on the main website, specifically the dungeons section which is very much in contrast to “aesthetics only,” and did a couple hours of research otherwise, most of it before June 19th, which would make coming across that information rather unlikely. Calling anyone that didn’t hunt down every last blog about the game uninformed consumers is ridiculous, and judging by your other posts in this thread you are either a rabid fanboy or a bad troll anyway, so kindly take it elsewhere. Neither I nor the OP nor many of the people concerned about the lack of endgame are saying GW2 is a bad game, but we would rather not see it be the next Warhammer, which is what it will be without some form of post-80 character progression. That actually does include things outside of the “gear treadmill”. AA/skill points that only work in certain areas so as to keep pvp balanced, heroic bonuses that only apply to heroic dungeons, there are numerous possibilities that could be implemented with minimal effort and without disrupting the other aspects of the game.

There was no post level 20 progression in GW1 either. Only cosmetic progression.

So just.. deal with it. There won’t be any power increase after level 80. Which I’m really glad I’m tired of games where I have to endlessly chase new carrot to be on pair with everyone. I have no incentive to do it nor time.

If you want endless progression. Go play WoW, RIFT, Everquest and countless other MMOs.

GW1 also had enough content to support the original intention and had Replayable content. Also it wasnt NEARLY as bogged down with anti farming codes. Please actualy know what your talking about before you say it. Ive played every single one of those mmo’s, gw2 at its core, is actualy a worse grind because we cant actualy farm.

GW1 had less content than GW2. If claim otherwise. You just haven’t been here from start or you memory working in really picky manner.
What you cloud do in GW1 ?
Complete Missions.
Do Quests (less than Events in GW2).
Do PvP. I can agree that there was more PvP Modes on start (HA, RA, and GvG).
Ohhh.. And that’s it.

Yeah but Guild Wars lasted a lot of people 5+ years just on that. So it must have done something right.

The armor/weapon cosmetic goal and then later achievements is what it was all about. They made farming enjoyable, and it did get testy at times but overall most of the farms were an enjoyable experience. Especially when it was a solo farm. That’s partly what made Guild Wars last as long as it did.

But they totally abandoned that concept in this game and they shouldn’t have. People like to farm if there is a reward for it, and while there are minor rewards in this game, they aren’t as rewarding as they could have been and I don’t know why Anet would pass up on a chance to make something more people would enjoy. A percentage of this unhappy customer base would become happy if the loot system worked a little bit more like it did in Guild Wars..and it would hurt no one.

Regarding dungeons, all I’m saying is if you want to grind them it should be fun. They made grinding in Guild Wars fun, for the most part. So why not in this game?

This thread is one of the reason that I hate official forums at a start of a game. There are always more fanboys and trolls than real-players.

OP is %100 right. All real-players know this.

To all those giving examples from GW1:

• This is not GW1. this was not intended to be “only” for the people who had played GW1. So, stop with your GW1 analogies and examples. they make no sense.
• More than half of current GW2 accounts have never played nor heard -till this game- about GW1.
• GW1 is an obsolete game.
• We don’t want GW2 to be obsolete as well.

Real players just don’t like to get involved in arguments that aren’t going anywhere.

Just about no one who’s hit level 80 has done all the content. You just hit 80. Go finish the rest of the game (explorable mode dungeons are level 80 content, that is why the top tier sets there are level 80 except for two dungeons) before you start complaining.

This is a vanilla release, and you knew that post-80 content would be lean until future expansions.

“Yeah but Guild Wars lasted a lot of people 5+ years just on that. So it must have done something right.”

They had several expansions. This is the first release. Chill out.

Sylv.5324:

Just about no one who’s hit level 80 has done all the content. You just hit 80. Go finish the rest of the game (explorable mode dungeons are level 80 content, that is why the top tier sets there are level 80 except for two dungeons) before you start complaining.

This is a vanilla release, and you knew that post-80 content would be lean until future expansions.

I did the dungeons, but I’m not gonna do them again because AN don’t want me to do it again (relating to patch notes)

Deith.7596:

Sylv.5324:

Just about no one who’s hit level 80 has done all the content. You just hit 80. Go finish the rest of the game (explorable mode dungeons are level 80 content, that is why the top tier sets there are level 80 except for two dungeons) before you start complaining.

This is a vanilla release, and you knew that post-80 content would be lean until future expansions.

I did the dungeons, but I’m not gonna do them again because AN don’t want me to do it again (relating to patch notes)

Kk. Means less speed run spam in the open world, yay!

Crushl.1027:

Gank.4957:

“I don’t want to do anything the game offers so the game has no endgame!”

Might be harsh but that is exactly what I read from your post.

I think you’re making this a bit to easy for yourself. Of course, there is something to do on 80. But the point is, there’s so much more potential in this game for some real epic stuff which just didn’t make it into the game. At least at this point.

I tried to describe one possibility of 80 content here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/events/Why-did-you-not-push-World-PvE-one-step-further/first#post88968

I agree there is much potential to be had, not just at 80, with the dynamic events. I made a suggestion here for boosting them a bit and turning them into “end game” content:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Scale-Dynamic-Event-Difficulty-on-Success/first#post101866

Sylv.5324:

Deith.7596:

Sylv.5324:

Just about no one who’s hit level 80 has done all the content. You just hit 80. Go finish the rest of the game (explorable mode dungeons are level 80 content, that is why the top tier sets there are level 80 except for two dungeons) before you start complaining.

This is a vanilla release, and you knew that post-80 content would be lean until future expansions.

I did the dungeons, but I’m not gonna do them again because AN don’t want me to do it again (relating to patch notes)

Kk. Means less speed run spam in the open world, yay!

You’re just plain stupid and try to sound all smart and funny. Speed run arah, good one

Sylv.5324:

“Yeah but Guild Wars lasted a lot of people 5+ years just on that. So it must have done something right.”

They had several expansions. This is the first release. Chill out.

I didn’t buy an incomplete game to buy 5 more expansions to cost me 300$+ just to have a real game.

Qahlel.3805:

Sylv.5324:

“Yeah but Guild Wars lasted a lot of people 5+ years just on that. So it must have done something right.”

They had several expansions. This is the first release. Chill out.

I didn’t buy an incomplete game to buy 5 more expansions to cost me 300$+ just to have a real game.

It’s not incomplete and they were very clear about where they put their focus for the initial release. You chose to buy a game, knowing they had very little content tailored specifically to post-80s, and then are upset about it.

Sylv.5324:

“Yeah but Guild Wars lasted a lot of people 5+ years just on that. So it must have done something right.”

They had several expansions. This is the first release. Chill out.

I’m not asking for more content, I don’t need more content right now there is enough. My main point delves on the fact that Guild Wars did the grind game right, (when you wanted to grind) and this game didn’t. This game should have followed the grind game the way Guild Wars did and Anet abandoned that which doesn’t make any sense.

this game is huge for 60$.

HUGE.

but i come to realize that there is no way a mmo will survive on a concept different than “loot or level”

sad, really…
“ok anet, give us 100 paragon level :/
i dont care about the nice world, im ok to grind the same map over and over after drinking 6 redbulls.”..

i feel bad for all these players who play 75+hours per week…
i pity them.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/104j7o/you_are_all_destroying_the_mmo_genre_and_you_dont/

I love how everyone’s posting that Reddit thread as the end-all argument. Perhaps you should also read some of the comments in that thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/104j7o/you_are_all_destroying_the_mmo_genre_and_you_dont/c6ac3m3

thinks little kids should get off of moms computer and stop using her credit card too

Qahlel.3805:

To all those giving examples from GW1:

• This is not GW1. this was not intended to be “only” for the people who had played GW1. So, stop with your GW1 analogies and examples. they make no sense.
• More than half of current GW2 accounts have never played nor heard -till this game- about GW1.
• GW1 is an obsolete game.
• We don’t want GW2 to be obsolete as well.

you truly sound like someone who never actually played gw1, so doesn’t get what people are talking about.

fact is, gw1 had a more “revolutionary” endgame than this. and no, don’t even start with “b-b-but gw2 is only 3 weeks old”. that would be remotely valid if it was a newbie devstudio. remotely.

example? almost nothing was bound and could be traded (unless you specifically bound it to one of your chars thus making it untradeable). yes there was grind, yes there were only cosmetics to get, but HOW you get said cosmetics was entirely up to you (use ingame money to buy the mats, get the mats yourself, get other items to trade for mats/the item.. you should be able to get the picture).

that freedom of choice is doesn’t even exist as a shadow in gw2.

Exactly on the point Gray. This game needs that freedom of choice because that’s what made Guild Wars so fun and was a big part of it’s longevity and it worked. Anet knows it worked yet they chose the “common MMO” way instead. That makes absolutely no sense to me. None whatsoever. It’s like downgrading. Why the hell would they do that?

The freedom of choice being how you can acquire each piece of armor. Don’t give me that “You don’t have to get that set of armor!” You should be able to get each and every set of armor multiple ways, exactly like it was in GW. And you can’t do that with dungeon armor, you do the dungeon or you don’t get the armor. That’s stupid.

It wouldn’t be as bad if you could get tokens off of the dungeon mobs themselves. But Anet doesn’t even give you that. That’s fun, why would they take away something fun?

Rpgtabbycat.5869:

I raided in WoW. I downed bosses in Firelands. Even did a few of them on heroic. Downed some of the bosses in the regular Dragon Soul. I’m tired of raiding. I’m tired of working so long and hard to get my gear only for it to end up being worthless when the next tier hits. I love it when my character looks awesome. I hate it when that awesome gear becomes useless.

I enjoy playing GW2. The dynamic events and the dungeons, for me, give me as much thrill as raiding 10 man content ever did. And the best thing is, after I grind out all the tokens for the dungeon set I want for my characters, I know it won’t be obsolete when the next expansion is released.

I’m sorry that those of you who want to keep on chasing carrots are disappointed. The game is exactly what Anet has been saying it would be. I really don’t understand why you are complaining now.

You know, if you were equally (or closely) rewarded for doing stuff in lower leveled areas as well as top level, with it still being quite challenging (gear not making as much of an impact), so that you don’t feel forced to do Orr stuff to grind for your karma, etc.

And if the content (such as DE’s) were really as fun and dynamic as a they could be (aoe zerging down weak mobs over and over isn’t fun) and boss fights were as fun as say wow’s boss fights (not just a tank and spank but actual fun mechanics).

AND if there were more cosmetic carrots (let’s say there were certain mobs you had to find and hunt down for unique skins) in EVERY zone.

This game would definately be alot more fun and have more longevity w/o going against Anet’s philosophy. Hell I’m sure this may all come in time and I’ll be patient, but I don’t think Anet expects for there to be so little to do (atleast fun things).

I can picture it now. Logging on after I’m finally lvl 80, maybe half way to my legendary. Decide I feel like doing some stuff in Diessu Plateau.

Find some a DE chain with Dredge sieging a town not just throwing waves of weak mobs, but some infantry with a couple Veteran mobs running around buffing everyone with auras. More players show up, suddenly Dredge Turrets start popping up all around the town, people trying to kill off the Veteran Aura mobs before mobs become too strong, another chunk of people go and try to take out the turrets laying siege to the players. Suddenly a Champion mob comes in and tries to wipe out the main friendly NPC. In the end we barely manage to kill it and get some good Karma/xp close to that of 70-80 zone rewards.

Ask some guildies if they want to work together to hunt down a named mob that drops 1 of 3 unique shoulder skins, we luckily manage to find one in a jumping puzzle area and struggle to kill it and get our skins. Decide to go take on an explorable dungeon and see if we can manage to kill a certain boss this time around, the mechanic is pretty tricky but it definately is fun, and will give us some decent progress toward our legendary/w.e.

This is how I imagine “endgame” to be.

sorrow.2364:

I really don’t understand why people are saying there are no endgame in Guild Wars 2.
The endgame is everywhere, how can you say there is none?

After you reached level 80, you are at almost 30% of map exploration, this means that there is 60% of contents left to explore.

There are also 8 dungeons with 4 routes each (as far I know, story + explorable), with a total of 32 effective different dungeons.

There is a load of rare gear to craft or to search, in order to make you character appear as you really want to.

There are 7 other professions with different playstyle to master after you mastered yours.

There are a lot of combinations of personal storylines which fork many times depending on the decions you make.

There is WvWvW and sPvP where you have to master your profession to an higher level to be competitive.

There is all the gear to unlock in sPvP.

There are a lot of bosses to defeat around the world to get unique gear.

Probably there is something I forgot to mention, but all I’ve listed is enough to me to say that Guild Wars 2 has an huge endgame.

What you listed is biased and you aint been there yet. Most of the OP havnt hit 80 and progressed. First I dont know what the kitten you were doing while lvling. bc when i hit 80 i was at 83% completion. So your exploration theory is null at 80.

As we all know. the dungeons suck. And are gold sinks. Pointless.

the story arcs you are talking about requires many things your fanboy brain cant process. 1. Why do i want 3 of the same race. 2. why do i want to spend rlm on extra character slots to repeat the same content i did getting my 100% explorable? As soon as i finished. Can you say grind. And there are few bosses with unique gear since every zone has a world boss almost. Of which next to none drop anything at all.

Why do u assume ppl like this spvp. B/c the pvp forum says otherwise. But you probably havnt been there. You sound new so ill give you the benefit of the doubt. You prob have a lot left to do. Come talk to me when you have your gear and 100%

It doesn’t take 8+ hours playtime a day to be 80 by now. I could have 3+ 80s by now with 4+ hours a day playtime.
What do you people who accuse us 80s of having no lives do in GW2? Do you complete one quest and log off for the day?

I have to agree with the OP with this one. I hate the fact that there is really no “endgame” content at max level, but that anet has decided to make the whole experience of leveling the “endgame”.
It quickly becomes boring to level and to complete all the zones since I complete every zone I visit 100% before I move on to the next one, and the same with events and dynamic events. So the thought of finally reaching lvl 80 only to find out that I’ve already played the endgame content is disappointing.
For me, the game will be pointless at max level, because I have no interest in PvP or WvWvW, and I already feel that the game is pushing me to play it so I won’t get bored at max level.
There are of course other things to do, such as crafting, dungeons (in both modes), completing achievements and so on, but personally it’s not enough for me. Dungeons are sadly very boring aswell, because there is simply no dynamic feeling in it at all. It just feels like another random event you’ve come across. I’d love to see some epic ‘cinematic’ cutscenes in a form of an vista, and not the normal speech dialogue (same with dynamic events). Such as the very beginning of the game, when you get the chance to fight the bosses on the specific race you’ve chosen. That would leave you amazed and frightened to defeat the boss for example.

I also want to point out that the game is very well made, with amazing and unique ideas to prevent the traditional mmorpg style such as the trio and grinding, but making the game with no proper endgame is a shame, especially for the PvE players like me. I am not hating on the game, in fact I am loving the game, but for me Guild Wars 2 still feels like it’s in alpha. Which was unexpected for me because the game has been in production for five years. So I of course assumed that everything was thought out, such as endgame for both PvP and PvE. Which it is, technically yes. The whole experience is the endgame. But then again, there is no real point of reaching level 80 (since I am already bored of the “endgame” content, and I feel like I’ve finished it already, PvE wise)
There really should be more to choose from in max level, with different kind of endgame. Doesn’t necessarily need to be gear-grinding, but some kind of a change. Reaching max level now doesn’t feel like I’ve accomplished anything, because I will not see any new content (other than personal storyline and new dungeons). Endgame is the important part of the game, and has huge impact on the game because the game lore has led to that very point of the game. Such as one finale twist / epic boss battle / revealing the truth / new climatic content etc.

I just hope expansions expand the endgame rather than just adding more zones to “explore”.

alfista.6094:

Real players just don’t like to get involved in arguments that aren’t going anywhere.

The real players are probably enjoying the game blissfully unawares of the forum.
I’m only posting here from work because I have little else going on.

Seems like the ANet white knights are all over this forum thread. I would like to add my personal opinion. I agree somewhat with what the OP said, mostly pertaining to the hype train that followed this game. I was hooked instantly, and after 320 hrs played (yes, I know), I have come to a conclusion about a few things that get under my skin.

I understand full and well that this game is not a Skinners Box, I understand it’s not a gear treadmill, in reality its more like a pretty princess simulator, and that in turn will not appeal to everyone. The only gripe that I have about this system is that if the game is only based off of looks (and subtle stat upgrades) I truly believe there should be a bit more variation to the gear sets. Now I most likely will be flamed for this but I don’t think it is unreasonable, yes, I know in games like WoW there are just different colored sets, but that game is a gear treadmill, your main priority is the stats on the gear not how they look. With so much detail and effort pumped into the zones, I found the dungeon sets lacking and the amount of armor skins in general lacking for a game set up solely on an aesthetic basis.

My second complaint is that lately ANet seems to be contradicting themselves in alot of their changes to the game, I understand about how the farming thing effects people and it’s used to prevent botting. But newsflash, botters just like criminals will find a way around it, and in turn you are only hurting the player that truly enjoy’s farming, dungeon crawling, or any of the other content you have. The whole play like you want mantra that were toting around is almost nonexistent now, it’s more of like play like this or hit the road ( and no I don’t want to be able to fly and shoot lightning bolts from my butt one-shotting people). The variations of the way you can play the game at max level are growing ever restricting.

My third complaint, if you could call it that, is basically two fold. The first has to with PvE and PvP changes, I honestly believe they should have some sort of PTR to test these changes on before implementing them and changing them. Right now it’s kind of like, Suprise!, which leads people to think it’s a bug/exploit and then forum rage ensues. This also pertains to the amount of communication with the players, I understand your insanely busy, I get that, but just simple things as pre-releasing patch notes or even saying things such as non specific dungeons changes would mean the world to me and probably a large portion of the community. The second portion of this has to do with the fact that looking back in retrospect I truly wish there was more testing at higher level events and zones. Alot of these events will work once and then never work again until a server reset, which leads to insane server hopping which isn’t fun for anyone(maybe for people that like clicking buttons).

The last thing that I would just like to say to the community as a whole. Please for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster get off your high horses. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just as I’m sure you have yours. There’s no need for the White Knights or the flamebots to point out stupid things like you’re a dog and rub your nose in it. One of the most hated comments I see is, “Pshhh… you played too much. No wonder your bored, get a life bro. etc. etc.”. They play how they want to play, just how you are playing how you want to. It’s a personal choice which is exactly that, personal. It also doesn’t do anyone any good saying the game sucks, for the 7000 reasons they listed. I truly enjoy the game even though atm I don’t totally agree the direction it’s taking right now but only time will tell.
P.S. Sorry for the long post -.-

@OP Wall of text TL;DR

Nobody cares. The main point being you got an adventure of 80 levels and for $60 bucks or less quite a lot. A LOT more than any offline RPG like Baldur’s Gate or Icewind Dale, etc.
Anet always said this MMO would be DIFFERENT from every other MMO out there and as you can see IT IS. There’s NO END GAME because they said there would be NO END GAME….what part of NO END GAME did you not comprehend? It was out there plain as day BEFORE the game was released that there would be NO END GAME so if you came in EXPECTING and END GAME then it’s YOUR FAULT and not the fault of ANET because there isn’t an END GAME or things up to YOUR standards of what an MMO should be……

Learn to accept responsibility for your lack of RESEARCH and COMPREHENSION of what ANET said. I certainly knew there was no endgame like all the other MMO’s before I bought it.

Death Aggro.9602:

sorrow.2364:

I really don’t understand why people are saying there are no endgame in Guild Wars 2.
The endgame is everywhere, how can you say there is none?

After you reached level 80, you are at almost 30% of map exploration, this means that there is 60% of contents left to explore.

There are also 8 dungeons with 4 routes each (as far I know, story + explorable), with a total of 32 effective different dungeons.

There is a load of rare gear to craft or to search, in order to make you character appear as you really want to.

There are 7 other professions with different playstyle to master after you mastered yours.

There are a lot of combinations of personal storylines which fork many times depending on the decions you make.

There is WvWvW and sPvP where you have to master your profession to an higher level to be competitive.

There is all the gear to unlock in sPvP.

There are a lot of bosses to defeat around the world to get unique gear.

Probably there is something I forgot to mention, but all I’ve listed is enough to me to say that Guild Wars 2 has an huge endgame.

What you listed is biased and you aint been there yet. Most of the OP havnt hit 80 and progressed. First I dont know what the kitten you were doing while lvling. bc when i hit 80 i was at 83% completion. So your exploration theory is null at 80.

As we all know. the dungeons suck. And are gold sinks. Pointless.

the story arcs you are talking about requires many things your fanboy brain cant process. 1. Why do i want 3 of the same race. 2. why do i want to spend rlm on extra character slots to repeat the same content i did getting my 100% explorable? As soon as i finished. Can you say grind. And there are few bosses with unique gear since every zone has a world boss almost. Of which next to none drop anything at all.

Why do u assume ppl like this spvp. B/c the pvp forum says otherwise. But you probably havnt been there. You sound new so ill give you the benefit of the doubt. You prob have a lot left to do. Come talk to me when you have your gear and 100%

I don’t want to start a flame here, but I swear, I was nearly to do that.

I don’t know what you were doing while leveling. I’ve just followed the storyline and completed all the maps the storyline bringed me to. If you reach level 80 at 83% completation or you played over than 300 hours starting the exploration before you finished the storyline or you are only saying bullkitten.

What makes you think dungeons suck? I’ve found them very challanging and fun to play. because they require a lot of more skill and coordination than normal PvE. I don’t know why you find them bad, probably because you play them just to farm dungeon tokens; try to play them just to have fun.

Oh, here we come the bullkitten storm.
1. You can also make 5 character of 5 different races, uh? You have 5 slots, you know?
2. You haven’t experienced the storyline in you 100% exploration.
3. You can buy extra character slots by converting Gold into Gems. None force you to use real money.
4. Who said grinding? You can just go around making events you find and then follow the mini-plot some of them have. It is impossible that you made 100% exploration in so a short time and made all the dynamic events there are around the world.
Who the kitten cares about gear? Seriously. I play to enjoy the game and the combat system, train my skill with my profession (trust me, some of the have a very high learning curve) and passing a good time killing a giant boss after an event.
If you want to grind like a jerk, just change game, this game isn’t meant to grind.

I’ve reached rank 16 in sPvP… I’ve probably made some matches before I came here to talk about sPvP… Yes, people in the forum complains about the lack of arenas, so I do, because they were fun in Guild Wars and they should be way more fun in Guild Wars 2. The ones who complains about the zergy PvP just don’t know how to play. The kind of mode the sPvP has, requires skill to know where it is the right time to leave the point you are defending. If a mass of 8 people are coming to cap your point, you should probably let them cap and go to cap the other points while they are zerging. Almost 90% of the match I’ve played against people zerging around, I’ve won. The other 10% I had people in my team who keep dying because they wanted to face the giant mass of the enemy team all alone.

These are the main complaints about the fun of sPvP itself. Things about class balancing doesn’t matters since ANet is going to balance them soon.

Does anyone else feel like this is a single player game even when you’re with people. I can’t put my finger on it, but the social aspect doesn’t seem very immersive.

GW2 has lots of things to do. It’s just not the player / gear “progression” (or rather, grind) most MMO gamers are used to. There’s no loot hamster wheel in GW2, nor are there any raiding that require a full-time job schedule to keep up with the cool kids.

Guild Wars has always been about exploration, character cosmetic upgrades, the lore, and most importantly PvP. The first and now 2nd game’s “end game” is PvP, not PvE. PvE was fun getting to 80, but that’s about it. Once you hit 80, WvW is where the fun is at. The problem is, there’s a ton of issues currently plaguing WvW….

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/W-v-W-Needs-TONS-of-Work/first#post135859

Whenever ANet fixes all of the problems in WvW and gives us a much better incentive to do well in it, GW2 will be THE game of choice for MMO PvP’ers. There’s been a huge void in the MMO genre since DAoC that needs to be filled. Hopefully GW2 will eventually be the game to do it.

Apotheosis.3786:

Does anyone else feel like this is a single player game even when you’re with people. I can’t put my finger on it, but the social aspect doesn’t seem very immersive.

Maybe join a good, active guild that actually enjoys running dungeons and/or PvP? If you don’t have any RL friends to play with and don’t have a good guild, then of course you’ll feel lonely.

Click.5123:

GW2 has lots of things to do. It’s just not the player / gear “progression” (or rather, grind) most MMO gamers are used to. There’s no loot hamster wheel in GW2, nor are there any raiding that require a full-time job schedule to keep up with the cool kids.

Guild Wars has always been about exploration, character cosmetic upgrades, the lore, and most importantly PvP. The first and now 2nd game’s “end game” is PvP, not PvE. PvE was fun getting to 80, but that’s about it. Once you hit 80, WvW is where the fun is at. The problem is, there’s a ton of issues currently plaguing WvW….

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/W-v-W-Needs-TONS-of-Work/first#post135859

Whenever ANet fixes all of the problems in WvW and gives us a much better incentive to do well in it, GW2 will be THE game of choice for MMO PvP’ers. There’s been a huge void in the MMO genre since DAoC that needs to be filled. Hopefully GW2 will eventually be the game to do it.

Apotheosis.3786:

Does anyone else feel like this is a single player game even when you’re with people. I can’t put my finger on it, but the social aspect doesn’t seem very immersive.

Maybe join a good, active guild that actually enjoys running dungeons and/or PvP? If you don’t have any RL friends to play with and don’t have a good guild, then of course you’ll feel lonely.

I am with an active guild and convinced 4 of my friends to start with me. I suppose my problem stems from everything feeling pointless rather than the lack of people. I feel like I’m playing a single player game while looking at a chat for people playing the game. Kinda like diablo 3 except I can see the people…. they just don’t matter.

Well now that I got a good grasp of how people responded to my OP I think I’ll draft up a new post with suggestions on how to fix things. Not saying I know best… It just isn’t fair for me to criticize as much as I have without putting forth any solutions.

OK everybody!

what would be your suggestion for “endgame” ?
-more gold in your pocket to buy better gear to kick the same monsters so that you
get better gear to kill them faster?
-to get better gear so that you can kill newbs more easily while being adk in wvwvw?

i see a lot of peole complaining and most are complaining about “reward/power”.
but i think that they maxed out the content.
so now, either the play pvp to become the best player ever, or organize server militia in wvwvw.
but as far as pve goes.. dungeons can test your skills. you ll get a reward “once in a while”, but you cant seriously expect to always get better and better gear… that is ridiculous.
anyway, suggestion anybody?