It’s a funny world when people generally get zerker gear and see it as a requirement for group content whereas you can gear stupidly and still beat the same content.
So the game doesn’t require it but the players do. Why? Cause they want to farm fast. Guess that’s all that matters.
See, you’re partially right here. The problem isn’t this two dimensional.
Yes. you can beat the content with any gear.
Zerker is not a requirement for group content.
Some players require it because the “Group content” they are doing they have already done hundreds of times and there is no longer any immersion, any need for cutscenes, any need for group support, or items like that. They’re fast forwarding to get what they want. Namely, tokens (probably to forge swords for a precursor.).
Some players do not require it because there is still a need for immersion, group support, taking their time and enjoying the content to build social links inside of a TV. They play the content for the content, and the reward is a bonus.
The only issue stemming here is when a player from either of the first two groups tries to muscle their way into or imposes their mentality upon the players that belong to the other.
Farming fast is all that matters to Some. not all.
The whole thing would be fixed if people would agree to use the LFG tool properly and stop taking “play how you want” to mean “Force others to play how you want/accept how you play.”
I’m specced in 50% Zerker normally.
Do I join “LFG zerk only” groups with that? No, im not full zerk; I either spec if I want a speed run, or make my own group if I want to help someone who hasnt done it.
It’s not hard.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
For the love of god, how many times must we repeat berserker gear doesn’t equal to no group support?
For the love of god, how many times must we repeat berserker gear doesn’t equal to no group support?
Power/Precision/Healing Power
Best Elementalist ever.
“Stand in the corner and spam 1 until the boss is dead. Usually 5-10 seconds”
Oh so riveting. So fun. So exiting. yawn Not. I just don’t understand this mentality.
Oh sure, I can see how getting through super fast the first couple of times through might be fun and exciting. But after that to do it every time… it just become repetitive work. Stack here, set auto attack going, wait. Run here. Stack there, start auto attack, dodge, attack some more, wait. No wonder you people watch tv to keep yourselves entertained when you’re on the game. You may as well be botting, cause you sure as hell aren’t playing.
Let’s repeat your post with some words changed
“Run around and spam all your skills, make the mobs follow you so they don’t stay in any of the paty’s AOE, especially cc like fear to make the boss run out of AOE/100b and the like. You fight will last a long time”
Oh so riveting. So fun. So exiting. yawn Not. I just don’t understand this mentality.
Oh sure, I can see how getting through super slow the first couple of times through might be fun and exciting. But after that to do it every time… it just become repetitive work. Run around like insane rabbits, spam ALL your skills, wait. Run here. Spread out so the combat takes longer, long enough to spam all your skills, dont dodge, dont attack some more, wait. No wonder you people watch tv to keep yourselves entertained when you’re on the game. You may as well be botting, cause you sure as hell aren’t playing.
I don’t understand that mentality either. (Oh how my husband snarls at me if I push/launch his foe outta his aoe). Just because someone doesn’t understand/enjoy the zerk stack and smack (and admittedly a lot of zerkers do say they turn on the tv to watch whatever when they play so they don’t get bored), doesn’t mean the person plays as you described.There are people in the middle of the spectrum too ya know.
As an experiment to see if people still like this sort of thing, I made an LFG listing for AC story, no stacking, watching cut scenes.
So much fun. My Warrior helped a few low levels with their first dungeon ever. Loved every second of it.
I do that pretty much everyday, and then I come to forum to see how much I get insulted for being an elitist.
For the love of god, how many times must we repeat berserker gear doesn’t equal to no group support?
Alright, Jeez. I picked the wrong words here. Yes, there’s group support in zerker teams. There are some specs that are better at it than Zerker though. This really depends on where group support becomes effective in the player’s eyes. I was just attempting to note that speed is top priority for fullzerk groups in most cases.
@ Oxtred
If everyone did that there would be much less of a problem. some people dont seem to have the time to make their own instance though.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
Yes, there’s group support in zerker teams. There are some specs that are better at it than Zerker though.
If your definition of “support” is healing and length of boon duration, sure. But let’s look at that…
1. Healing – group healing was intentionally designed to be weak because a powerful pure healer class would invalidate every attack in the game that wasnt a one hit kill with no skill required. Each class was given a personal healing skill with the intention to relient on themselves for healing.
2. Boon duration (passive stat) is not as important as boon timing (player skill). Who cares, for example, if the Aegis a full boon duration guardian casts last 35% longer than a berserker, because what really matters is if he uses the Aegis right before the massive attack that will wipe the group if they don’t avoid it. when it comes to defensive boons, having them get cast at the right time is infinitely more valuable than the raw amount of time they last. As intended player skill > passive stats.
The core tenet of real speed runs (not random bad berserker pugs) is CC + damage mitigation/avoidance + group DPS buffs. Most of these things are improved by taking the right traits and skills and not by passive stats. Thus, berserker specs are usually just as good at real support.
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
Tanky gearsets have an(Edit: kitten) use for inexperienced players. You can’t just delete it because it’s not used in speedruns.
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Pretty sure every gearset other than magi’s has a use in WvW and is viable there.
Magi’s is just…bad.
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Is not PvE.
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Is not PvE.
and just because a gear set exists it doesnt mean it has to be perfect in every part of the game.
this discussion will never come to an end. people will explain stuff over and over again, and the ignorant people will refuse to accept and understand it over and over again.
pointless.
(edited by NoTrigger.8396)
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Is not PvE.
It’s part of the game.
I have to agree with the zerkers.
There are several basic things the anti-zerkers don’t seem to get.
#1. Running low DPS gear makes things HARDER for your team. Boss fights last longer – enemies get more chances to do some dangerous special attack. Your control abilities get used up – as the front loaded blinds and such wear off.
#2. Almost all of the high DPS builds that are in vogue are HIGH support/control builds. Rather then focus on skills that extend an individual players life its about using talents like spotter or might stacking talents. Its about using blinds instead of ‘altruistic’ healing for a guardian for example.
#3. Beserker builds MORE responsibility for the individual player – you are squishier – you are tasked with more support/control responsibilities – because they are needed for your part. The TANKY builds OTOH are selfish. You aren’t supporting your team much – you have less control – all for the sake of individual survival.
Yes its not optimal from a ‘gear selection’ choice – sure you don’t have come up with weird mixes of gear to hit certain key levels of attributes. But it IS optimal from a play style point of view.
It puts the emphasis of good play on awareness of the situation – and use of abilities, as well as being ‘light on your feet’. The problem in this thread is that LEGIONS of people simply DO NOT understand the combat in this game.
As I explained in #1 most of the anti-zerkers traits/gearing makes life much harder on the team. You might end up more survivable – but trying to WoW the game makes life suck for the team.
The core of high level play is all about using control and support along with high DPS to deal with the tough encounters. I really suggest that more people watch videos on the combat system to understand why Zerker gear is so popular.
Once you get this – you will see that most zerker builds try to optimize all three aspects of this. Zerker builds allow arenanet to best show off their combat system in PVE.
The people that want to stand there and go through their rotation or stand there and throw down heals – WoW style don’t really understand this game. I suggest that these players go back to WoW.
Zerkers are not elitists who are trying to show off. They are TEAM FIRST guys in this game. Zerkers put the team ahead of individual player ease of play..
This is why when starting out its often suggested that you have a few pieces of Knights in your build so that you can get used to being squishy. Its challenging – but its for the team.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve
In Dragon Age: Origins, there’s no reason for basic maces and axes to exist because basic swords or named axes/maces/swords are just outright superior. So shall we remove them? Or shall we keep them in for flavour, roleplaying preferences and other reasons? We keep them in.
In Guild Wars 2 PvE there’s not much reason for non-damage centric stat combinations to exist because damage-centric stat combinations are (from an efficiency perspective) strictly superior. No, of course not. We keep them in for flavour, roleplaying preferences and other reasons. Not so good at taking damage? Well, wear these defensive pieces. Not interested in dodging everything? Well wear these defensive pieces. Want to make your heals for your party more potent? Well we’ve got healing power and boon duration for your regeneration.
It’s all about preferences. If video games were designed entirely with metas in place, league of legends would have like 20 champions and all the others would be deleted, GW2 would have like barely any gear stat combinations, dragon age origins would exclusively have basic swords and named weapons and armours, magic the gathering would exclusively have constructed format staples printed in their set releases and so on and so forth.
Designing exclusively for metas is stupid, hence why companies don’t do it. Wizards of the Coast design their magic cards for constructed formats, limited formats and certain player personalities (“Johnny”, “Vorthos”, “Spike” and “Timmy”). But guess what? When I open my booster packs, while I want constructed staples I most likely pick up 15 cards of limited or casual garbage which I don’t want. Does this mean it’s pointless? Nope, it’s for limited and other players who might enjoy big flashy spells, or want a big creature which is at a low rarity since they can’t afford rare ones.
They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
Or they preserve the status quo. Status quo is good.
Also, what about open world? You don’t need zerker for that. In some world bosses such as teq, zerker is actually bad against teq himself.
Speedrunning dungeons is merely a small part of the game. Not every stat set has to fit in the meta, as shown by Anet introducing new stat combos for the sake of completeness such as sinister and nomad.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Is not PvE.
It’s part of the game.
sPvP is also part of the game, and yet it can have separate stat sets. If there are some stat sets that exist for WvW, not PvE, then they should be acquirable in WvW, and WvW only.
Currently, it’s clear that for the majority of the game the action combat system and armor stat sets idea just do not work well together.
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Is not PvE.
It’s part of the game.
sPvP is also part of the game, and yet it can have separate stat sets. If there are some stat sets that exist for WvW, not PvE, then they should be acquirable in WvW, and WvW only.
Currently, it’s clear that for the majority of the game the action combat system and armor stat sets idea just do not work well together.
That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. All stats “work” in either game mode. Just because it doesn’t work for speedruns doesn’t mean anything. I use my wvw gear for open world, so I don’t care for this having to acquire wvw only gear to play wvw.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Is not PvE.
It’s part of the game.
sPvP is also part of the game, and yet it can have separate stat sets. If there are some stat sets that exist for WvW, not PvE, then they should be acquirable in WvW, and WvW only.
Currently, it’s clear that for the majority of the game the action combat system and armor stat sets idea just do not work well together.
they work very well together. what doesnt work is the way some people think and wishes to turn gw2 into a trinity game.
Also, what about open world? You don’t need zerker for that. In some world bosses such as teq, zerker is actually bad against teq himself.
Zerker isn’t even bad against Teq himself as the base stat is power, just like soldier’s. And since the trashmobs can still be critically hit zerker is the “better choice” for the entire fight – unless you have time to swap gear or have bad people at the turrets, but in that case the fight is doomed no matter what gear.
Also, what about open world? You don’t need zerker for that. In some world bosses such as teq, zerker is actually bad against teq himself.
Zerker isn’t even bad against Teq himself as the base stat is power, just like soldier’s. And since the trashmobs can still be critically hit zerker is the “better choice” for the entire fight – unless you have time to swap gear or have bad people at the turrets, but in that case the fight is doomed no matter what gear.
It’s still missing two stats. It’s no better than soldiers at best and worse given any mishaps.
And sure, zerker is best against the trash mobs and if you have time, you should switch; I’m too lazy to do it myself but it still doesn’t change these things. Also, the defense timers mean that killing stuff that much faster isn’t going to mean much unless they overrun the batteries.
Now if you’re defending the turrets, then sure, use zerker.
It’s all situational; surprising, right?
Edit: You can certainly use zerker in the dps zerg. But I think it is still inferior enough to pvt there that I would not suggest it.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Is not PvE.
It’s part of the game.
sPvP is also part of the game, and yet it can have separate stat sets. If there are some stat sets that exist for WvW, not PvE, then they should be acquirable in WvW, and WvW only.
Currently, it’s clear that for the majority of the game the action combat system and armor stat sets idea just do not work well together.
So what? PvP has berserker as well and used as well by certain classes and / or roles. Same as in WvW. So whats your problem now exactly?
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
The sets that get added are often at player request, so it’s not usually ANet unilaterally adding a stat combo. There’s a dramatic difference between being useful to some players in some circumstances and being useful to a specific player in a specific circumstance. All stat combos do not have to be equally good for all players in all circumstances. First, it’s impossible to achieve that kind of balance, and second, not all players have the same needs and wants.
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Is not PvE.
It’s part of the game.
sPvP is also part of the game, and yet it can have separate stat sets. If there are some stat sets that exist for WvW, not PvE, then they should be acquirable in WvW, and WvW only.
Currently, it’s clear that for the majority of the game the action combat system and armor stat sets idea just do not work well together.
Or … maybe people want certain stat combinations for PvE for their builds and don’t want to WvW for them?
Like I said, ANet designing gear specifically for metas is foolish, you’re not catering to different playstyles if you do that. What they have done now allows your efficiency oriented players to have their cake, the “tanks” to have their cake, the “healers” to have their cake and everyone can eat some. What you want is for the tanks and the healers to not be able to enjoy the cake and only for efficiency-oriented players to be catered to in PvE. This does not make sales, this does not preserve your playerbase and is unhealthy for a game’s popularity.
Please take some time before writing your posts.
It’s still missing two stats. It’s no better than soldiers at best and worse given any mishaps.
And sure, zerker is best against the trash mobs and if you have time, you should switch; I’m too lazy to do it myself but it still doesn’t change these things. Also, the defense timers mean that killing stuff that much faster isn’t going to mean much unless they overrun the batteries.
Now if you’re defending the turrets, then sure, use zerker.
It’s all situational; surprising, right?
Edit: You can certainly use zerker in the dps zerg. But I think it is still inferior enough to pvt there that I would not suggest it.
It’s not just defending the turrets but the lasers which is a big part of the whole fight. And neither vitality nor toughness helps that much in that fight as when the turrents don’t cleanse and heal and if all other defensive mechanisms fail and you don’t know when to dodge you’d be dead in pvt gear as well.
Not saying that people shouldn’t wear pvt during that fight (is there a “ping your gear” during world boss events anyway?) but it’s less important than people think.
Roles are separate from gearing.
This one statement, if people would only get it, would end most of the anti-meta discussions.
It would not, because this is the core of the problem. In the current game system, there’s no point for most of the gear sets to even exist in pve (and yet Anet keeps introducing more and more). They need to decide whether they really want that multitude of choices (but then they’ll all need to mean something, and be useful), or if they want the action system that makes most of them irrelevant (in which case they need to severely limit the options available).
wvw
Is not PvE.
It’s part of the game.
sPvP is also part of the game, and yet it can have separate stat sets. If there are some stat sets that exist for WvW, not PvE, then they should be acquirable in WvW, and WvW only.
Currently, it’s clear that for the majority of the game the action combat system and armor stat sets idea just do not work well together.
This is your mistake. You seem to believe that Anet created the meta and designed the different stat abbreviations top down to serve a specific function.
WRONG.
Anet designed a bunch of different stat combination and a bunch of different game play modes and released it all into the wild. It is us, the players, who decided what gear worked best for what challenge and created the meta for ourselves.
This whole thread makes my head hurt. With people so woefully ignorant, I don’t see why some of you even try to argue with them, but more power to you.
Omg when I read some opinion here I wanna run toward wall and hit it really hard with my head .
Are some people really so dumb and cant understand that zerker isnt broken !
You should always take the most efficient gear,trait to content which you are playing also in any game you dont take 3 healers just to HAVE 3 healers , you take enough healers to keep party alive . If one healer can easly keep party alive you dont take extra 2 ! It is really simple !
In the beginning when people still didnt know all exploits,superior corner stacking etc etc . People were looking for supports,healers but people got better and learnt how to use dodge and other mechanics to survive.So they dont need healers , they preffer to finish dung in 7min instead of 20min.
All anty-zerker whiners just tell me why just why I should take tank healer for ac,cof,se ? hmmm ? Just why ?! I can solo some paths and dont lose 50% of my hp so why I should take support with me ?
JUST BLAME ANET that they cant fix corner stacking , it makes zerkers so easy to run . Try fighting some enemies face to face as zerker , just group of elites on fractal in ascalon , its gona be suicide .
Ok, I’ll give it to you, people like the poster above are disgusting. But they are a minority.
But my problem is more to mob designs…
Since my “Casual PvE adventurer” play style means: End game = Combat and adventure…For every build being equal you should have remove every gear set out there except one. You can’t make everything equal when they are different … Common sense.
It has nothing to do being zerker or not. Use the righ weapons with the right build with the right class and for kittens sake be social and group up …
You just constantly whine about your made up, non-existing problems and spam every possible thread you can. It starts to get seriously boring …
Well, now you have missed the point.
Check the mobs everywhere, except few world bosses, Southsun Cove and Dry Top.
Huge majority of mobs have High HP, Deal high DMG per attack, activates a skill once every 3-5 seconds, have abilities that deal pretty much nothing and have very low armor
Berserker DPS build is designed to hit high dmg against low armored targets. Every other build is designed to create or combat “longevity” mechanics like conditions, boons, healing, control and boon/condition manipulation.
The end game of GW2, because of lacking mobs that actually try to kill you and can kill you, if you’re not careful, is pretty much hardcore grind farming to get gold for gem store items to complete the dressing simulator and use IRC to communicate with others…
I really wish every build is equal, than 1/3 being superior…
I’m sorry, but this is not how things usually work in video games. You cannot just go out with random traits, random stat gear and random utilities and hope to be effective pressing random buttons. The thing is that another player who actually made an effort to learn the game and understand its mechanics will be quite more effective than you.
That means that he:
- will kill you in sPvP/WvW mode with his better build
- will be much more effective and useful for group in PvE with his better buildThis is just how the things work.
Of course no one can force on you “meta builds”, you are free to run your own build no matter how useless and kittened it is. But please do not expect to be as effective as others and do not expect to be welcome into “effective meta groups”There is another thing:
No one can inspect your build in GW2. That’s why players who “play how they want” tend to lie to their group and join it anyways despite LFG statement. This is the reason for conflicts between “meta” and “play how i want” players.Add inspect option like it exists in sPvP and two player groups will be split naturally.
Do you have a solution against berserker DPS killing every mob in 1-3 seconds?
So that other builds can be used more widespread, especially ones which involves huge numbers of trash mobs and 1 miniboss, than what they do now…
2/3 builds suffer from literal “lack of targets” in general PvE endgame, since only mobs that don’t die in 1-3 seconds are champions and higher rank mobs.
As for PvP, every build have uses, berserker is not killing everything too fast because of variety.
As for WvW, I did play Healing/Conjure/Boon Support Elementalist with Cleric gear, but only with a small group, I did quite good job granting longevity to my allies.
But my problem is more to mob designs…
Since my “Casual PvE adventurer” play style means: End game = Combat and adventure…
Fully read my post before posting nonsense.
(edited by FrostSpectre.4198)
Berserker DPS build is designed to hit high dmg against low armored targets. Every other build is designed to create or combat “longevity” mechanics like conditions, boons, healing, control and boon/condition manipulation.
I’m pretty sure berserker builds use these too if needed.
Do you have a solution against berserker DPS killing every mob in 1-3 seconds?
So that other builds can be used more widespread, especially ones which involves huge numbers of trash mobs and 1 miniboss, than what they do now…
Why are you still baffled by this? Trash mobs are trash mobs for a reason. They are just fillers between bosses. But if it offens you that much …
1. Skip them.
2. Kill them in less DPS oriented gear.
3. Write a petition for PETA.
More of my thoughts:
Just farmed the heck out of SW.
Did just fine in Soldier’s gear. Others did just fine in Berserker’s gear.
Stop fighting. Go have fun.
More of my thoughts:
Just farmed the heck out of SW.
Did just fine in Soldier’s gear. Others did just fine in Berserker’s gear.
Stop fighting. Go have fun.
But you started the whole argument with this thread … Oo
True. Don’t stop the fun, I am still waiting for a video.
More of my thoughts:
Just farmed the heck out of SW.
Did just fine in Soldier’s gear. Others did just fine in Berserker’s gear.
Stop fighting. Go have fun.
But you started the whole argument with this thread … Oo
I didn’t want it to turn out like this, though.
I just wanted some people to come out and talk about how to fix the two extremes (Zerk extremists and anti-meta extremists)
I didn’t want all of this fighting to happen. I didn’t know people got this intense over gear and builds. I just want people to have fun how they want to without interference on either side.
Yes, there’s group support in zerker teams. There are some specs that are better at it than Zerker though.
If your definition of “support” is healing and length of boon duration, sure. But let’s look at that…
1. Healing – group healing was intentionally designed to be weak because a powerful pure healer class would invalidate every attack in the game that wasnt a one hit kill with no skill required. Each class was given a personal healing skill with the intention to relient on themselves for healing.
2. Boon duration (passive stat) is not as important as boon timing (player skill). Who cares, for example, if the Aegis a full boon duration guardian casts last 35% longer than a berserker, because what really matters is if he uses the Aegis right before the massive attack that will wipe the group if they don’t avoid it. when it comes to defensive boons, having them get cast at the right time is infinitely more valuable than the raw amount of time they last. As intended player skill > passive stats.
The core tenet of real speed runs (not random bad berserker pugs) is CC + damage mitigation/avoidance + group DPS buffs. Most of these things are improved by taking the right traits and skills and not by passive stats. Thus, berserker specs are usually just as good at real support.
Not bad. That being the case, then Zerker is still a fitting spec for those that can take full advantage of it. They aren’t losing anything but unnecessary baggage.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
More of my thoughts:
Just farmed the heck out of SW.
Did just fine in Soldier’s gear. Others did just fine in Berserker’s gear.
Stop fighting. Go have fun.
But you started the whole argument with this thread … Oo
I didn’t want it to turn out like this, though.
I just wanted some people to come out and talk about how to fix the two extremes (Zerk extremists and anti-meta extremists)
Probably the best way to fix it would be for some dungeon paths to have different optimal setups. They would still have a “path meta,” there’s no avoiding that, and that’s fine. However, there are things that could be done to give different dungeon paths different speedrun metas rather than 5-zerk. Mechanics that force a longer fight inherently favor other gear setups, for example. Karka, Husks, or other high-toughness mobs would result in one or two of the zerkers getting replaced with condition builds as another possibility while not artificially limiting speedruns like timed events would.
More of my thoughts:
Just farmed the heck out of SW.
Did just fine in Soldier’s gear. Others did just fine in Berserker’s gear.
Stop fighting. Go have fun.
But you started the whole argument with this thread … Oo
I didn’t want it to turn out like this, though.
I just wanted some people to come out and talk about how to fix the two extremes (Zerk extremists and anti-meta extremists)
Probably the best way to fix it would be for some dungeon paths to have different optimal setups. They would still have a “path meta,” there’s no avoiding that, and that’s fine. However, there are things that could be done to give different dungeon paths different speedrun metas rather than 5-zerk. Mechanics that force a longer fight inherently favor other gear setups, for example. Karka, Husks, or other high-toughness mobs would result in one or two of the zerkers getting replaced with condition builds as another possibility while not artificially limiting speedruns like timed events would.
But thats not diversity it’s outright excluding certain styles and gear sets for no apparent reason. World bosses are enough for this.
More of my thoughts:
Just farmed the heck out of SW.
Did just fine in Soldier’s gear. Others did just fine in Berserker’s gear.
Stop fighting. Go have fun.
But you started the whole argument with this thread … Oo
I didn’t want it to turn out like this, though.
I just wanted some people to come out and talk about how to fix the two extremes (Zerk extremists and anti-meta extremists)
Probably the best way to fix it would be for some dungeon paths to have different optimal setups. They would still have a “path meta,” there’s no avoiding that, and that’s fine. However, there are things that could be done to give different dungeon paths different speedrun metas rather than 5-zerk. Mechanics that force a longer fight inherently favor other gear setups, for example. Karka, Husks, or other high-toughness mobs would result in one or two of the zerkers getting replaced with condition builds as another possibility while not artificially limiting speedruns like timed events would.
But thats not diversity it’s outright excluding certain styles and gear sets for no apparent reason. World bosses are enough for this.
I don’t see how it excludes anything. Favors different things, sure, but that’s no different than how dungeons currently work.
For example, using Husks as the trash mobs in the dungeon. You can take them down just fine in Zerker gear, but you would do so much faster if you had a condition build or two in the group. Zerk gear isn’t excluded, but now, for that path, at least, the “meta” includes condition builds.
The “variety” is gamewide meta, not pathwide meta.
More of my thoughts:
Just farmed the heck out of SW.
Did just fine in Soldier’s gear. Others did just fine in Berserker’s gear.
Stop fighting. Go have fun.
But you started the whole argument with this thread … Oo
I didn’t want it to turn out like this, though.
I just wanted some people to come out and talk about how to fix the two extremes (Zerk extremists and anti-meta extremists)
Probably the best way to fix it would be for some dungeon paths to have different optimal setups. They would still have a “path meta,” there’s no avoiding that, and that’s fine. However, there are things that could be done to give different dungeon paths different speedrun metas rather than 5-zerk. Mechanics that force a longer fight inherently favor other gear setups, for example. Karka, Husks, or other high-toughness mobs would result in one or two of the zerkers getting replaced with condition builds as another possibility while not artificially limiting speedruns like timed events would.
But thats not diversity it’s outright excluding certain styles and gear sets for no apparent reason. World bosses are enough for this.
I’m actually ok with this.
PvE players that don’t really like damage builds take a little longer to do a dungeon, but help out more during world bosses.
Zerk players take less time in dungeons, but only really contribute damage for world bosses.
My Banner approves of the downed state.
Do you have a solution against berserker DPS killing every mob in 1-3 seconds? So that other builds can be used more widespread, especially ones which involves huge numbers of trash mobs and 1 miniboss, than what they do now…
2/3 builds suffer from literal “lack of targets” in general PvE endgame, since only mobs that don’t die in 1-3 seconds are champions and higher rank mobs.
You have no evidence that glass cannon builds are the sole cause of the phenomenon you are talking about. In fact, you have no evidence that glass builds are even the main cause. I’ll offer two experiments I conducted in Cursed Shore. Feel free to repeat them if you don’t believe me.
Two more things:
I went for Valkyrie for my Thief, which I think is the second best option after Berserker. I do have a Berserker set, but I don’t use it as often. Weapons and Trinkets are Berserker, and I play with my traits (occasionally 66002, mostly 56XXX putting the remaining 3 points where I need it most).
I would really like to use a Condition based play-style in PvE, or try Venom sharing, but condition caps get in the way of that. I can do that in open world PvE easily (except World bosses), but not so much in dungeons.
It’s still missing two stats. It’s no better than soldiers at best and worse given any mishaps.
And sure, zerker is best against the trash mobs and if you have time, you should switch; I’m too lazy to do it myself but it still doesn’t change these things. Also, the defense timers mean that killing stuff that much faster isn’t going to mean much unless they overrun the batteries.
Now if you’re defending the turrets, then sure, use zerker.
It’s all situational; surprising, right?
Edit: You can certainly use zerker in the dps zerg. But I think it is still inferior enough to pvt there that I would not suggest it.
It’s not just defending the turrets but the lasers which is a big part of the whole fight. And neither vitality nor toughness helps that much in that fight as when the turrents don’t cleanse and heal and if all other defensive mechanisms fail and you don’t know when to dodge you’d be dead in pvt gear as well.
Not saying that people shouldn’t wear pvt during that fight (is there a “ping your gear” during world boss events anyway?) but it’s less important than people think.
I surely hope there’s no ping gear; that’d take a long while. =p
And sure if you don’t know when to dodge you’ll die in the zerg anyways, but there is a noticeable difference with pvt gear and you are able to tank quite a few hits and continue to dps/reflect away while saving your dodges/defense for when you really need it. This argument doesn’t fly in dungeons because the damage difference is way too high but since crits don’t matter here, soldier is just the better choice.
The point about the megalaser is valid and as I said, you can swap over to zerker gear if you want for easier kills but in my experience most Teq runs are generally decided by how well the group dps’s teq down, in particular in the first phase, although sometimes we screw up a bit on the next burns. I’ve only seen teq fail due to botched laser defenses a handful of times and that was just because the group didn’t have any idea of what to do and was already struggling to damage teq.
Anyhow, my point is just to counter the generalization that pve is only zerker and everyone else should just trash their gear. If you want to tell me that you use zerker and don’t want to invest in pvt gear for just one event (and you shouldn’t) then that’s fine too.
(edited by ArchonWing.9480)
This is your mistake. You seem to believe that Anet created the meta and designed the different stat abbreviations top down to serve a specific function.
Nope. i believe that the gear stats, and different stat sets were created completely independently from combat engine, without thinking out all possible consequences, and thus those two ideas ended up far less compatible than they should have been. Anet didn’t create the meta. Meta just happens to underscore the flaws in the game design, that were brought out by trying to connect two elements that were never designed to cooperate.
You say “flaws” as if that was something apparent or true.
The things you see as flaws I see as elegant and good.
So my advice to you would be to think about what the game is and learning to appreciate it, rather than pining for what it is not.
You say “flaws” as if that was something apparent or true.
The things you see as flaws I see as elegant and good.
So my advice to you would be to think about what the game is and learning to appreciate it, rather than pining for what it is not.
And yea, that’s the thing.
There’s always going to be mechanics players can use to attain max efficiency. Those so called flaws separate better players from not as good ones. And there will always be better choice than others.
pve will all ways be lame
pvp/wvw is end game shame they don’t focus on that
pve will all ways be lame
pvp/wvw is end game shame they don’t focus on that
Do you plan to prove that by posting a speedrun video? ‘cause we’re waiting a few right now and they aren’t coming.
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