Guild Wars 2

They’ll stop with this business model when you stop participating in such a way that makes it profitable. Vote with your money not your forum posts.

Haven’t gone out of my way to get one just used keys I’ve got from starting my new character and exploration. 3 keys 3rd try I got a voucher. Haven’t handed it in yet trying to decide which one to get

~22g spent on 900gems/10 keys.
With keys from chests I’ve opened total of 18 chests
Got my token on 14th try)
Also got a total remake kit and 5 fine transmutation stones, both worth together some 550gems and I wanted to buy these anyway.
So.. lucky day I guess.

From personal observation, the average people obtain their token is on the 15th try (between 10 and 20.) This includes ingame observation and not just forums (though I believe I’m on my 20th try and still no token.)

However, the fact some open 100 chests and get no tokens leads me to believe it is bugged simply because there is such a huge disparity. I understand RNG is RNG, but I hope ANET double checks the system on the live server to make sure it is functioning properly.

I got my ticket on my third chest.

Felt lucky, so i tried 20 more, but didn’t get another lol. I’m still very happy. In the process, I got 2 Total Makeover Kits, 1 Hair Kit, around 10 dyes (2 rares) and 15 Transmutation Crystals.

For those of us taking our time and waiting on a paycheck: How long will we be able to obtain the weapons from chests? :p

Vayne.8563:

I guess everyone must draw their own moral line in the sand, but it seems particularly inane to me to quit a game because I can’t have the skin I want without gambling.

You’re being harsh for the sake of it. My argument is clearly not as you stated it. I didn’t quit because I can’t have the skin I want. I quit because ArenaNet promised the option to purchase things that are cosmetic, but instead is giving us the option to gamble (NOT PURCHASE) them. I’m not sure where to find the original articles now, but here’s an article quoting them. http://guildwars2community.com/guildwars2/arenanet-on-not-being-evil-with-micro-tractions-and-my-thoughts/

The fair handling of the gem shop was a huge determining factor for me to play the game. Do you see any thing in those quotes that would lead you to believe you would be gambling on things? The idea presented is that you can pay for things if you want. Not gamble for things if you want and possibly get them. Lying is immoral, and there you have it.

About 130 keys and nothing. I know it is range and I can accept this, but the drop rate is way too low. I have played other games with boxes and the drop rate was much better on those than it is here. If someone opens 100 chests, they should at least get 1 token, even knowing that it is range.
And to those that say do not spend anything and it will change their minds. That will never happen, There are way too many people playing this game to have everyone stop doing it. This is why this format works very well.
However, knowing that, I still think they should have them on the Gem store itself for like 2000 gems or so. That way people have a choice to either gamble on them with the box in the hopes to get one cheaper or those that want one outright can spend more to get one.

Just my two cents

Don’t want to make anyone mad but I finished a story with my salt got a key opened chest and got the ticket. I went to the vendor to see these skins and honestly I think the graphics on them are from ps1 and older and also I don’t like the skins better of giving 10 gold for a mystic weapon rather that spending hundreds of dollars or gold for something that is ugly

I think a lot less people would be irritated if we could sell these on the auction house.

danbuter.2314:

I think a lot less people would be irritated if we could sell these on the auction house.

If only that were the case….

Again I just think it would be fine to sell the ticket on the gem store for about 2000 to 3000 gems for those that want to spend that kind of cash, as well as, have them in the BLC for those that want to open them and try to get it cheaper than the listed price. But right now the drop rate is the most horrendous I have seen in any game with a cash shop.

danbuter.2314:

I think a lot less people would be irritated if we could sell these on the auction house.

Yeah. if somebody is one of the people for whom this is the perfect item for their character, it is always going to bother them when this ends and they couldn’t get it, especially after dumping as much money as they could into it and getting shafted by RNG.

I’d like one because it is nice having something really cool from an event. And I don’t see the rewards at the end of this chain being anything as cool as one of the skins available only by gambling.

With the way this appears to be going, this is the first time GW2 has felt like a generic F2P game to me. Only worse, because I’ve spent money.

I’m seeing lots of confusion about why ANet decided to do it this way. I agree that if they changed the acquisition method to direct purchase of a Fused Token from the gem store and many people bought it, the sheer volume of smaller purchases would probably make just as much or more money for them than comparably fewer, but very large key purchases for chest gambling. But I’m not sure it would turn out that way. People like things when they’re more rare. People will do more to get things that are more rare. I think it’s quite possible that making a Fused Ticket purchasable directly would result in an initial flood of purchases, but a sharp drop fairly quickly, as people decide they don’t want to pay $20 for something they’ve already had a chance to see in-game a dozen times. Maybe I’m completely wrong, it’s just a thought.

I guess I’m one of the lucky ones. Finally succumbed to the urge and bought 5 keys, got a fused ticket on my 5th chest.

Sardonia.8196:

Again I just think it would be fine to sell the ticket on the gem store for about 2000 to 3000 gems for those that want to spend that kind of cash, as well as, have them in the BLC for those that want to open them and try to get it cheaper than the listed price. But right now the drop rate is the most horrendous I have seen in any game with a cash shop.

3000 gems is over $35.00. How about a cash only option of $5.00 a skin instead.

Onshidesigns.1069:

3000 gems is over $35.00. How about a cash only option of $5.00 a skin instead.

I am pretty sure an evil genius would implement your suggestion of $5.00 a skin and price it at $10, when the gambling revenue dries up due to people wising up.

Don’t complain when this happens as this is exactly what you wanted, just in another time frame.

Kain Francois.4328:

From personal observation, the average people obtain their token is on the 15th try (between 10 and 20.) .

Observation is a tricky thing, most people get it wrong

Odds that you will die this year from a shark attack: 1 in 300 million
Odds of dying from being bitten by a dog: 1 in 700,000

Yet people would pat a dog but not a shark.

Opened 100+ chests and nothing. Feels like a money grab by ANet..

I’m kind of hoping that by the end of the living story we will get one of these fused weapon claims tickets as a memento of the event.

PlagueParade.7942:

I’m kind of hoping that by the end of the living story we will get one of these fused weapon claims tickets as a memento of the event.

Yeah…well…… you are hoping to match
I,m very disappointed… 250 + chest end nothing.. guessing drop rate of 0.001
I was hoping two…of maybe WvW will have some nice skins end et we got some crap that u can buy with 1200 karma in OW. ..wow 6 months for that… ROFL

i guess ..(hoping) is the last thing u should do
us for me… not single penny more for this game end i,m sure i,m not the only one..Booo

1st try got one , EPIC!

Vayne.8563:

Oh the moral high ground. Gotta love it. I can’t get the skin I want, and you’re supporting gambling, so I’m quitting the game. I can’t imagine being that attached to any one skin. I just can’t. Yeah, some of them look cool, but you know, there are lots of cool skins in the game.

I don’t love the whole RNG Black Lion chest thing. I really don’t. But this isn’t really a moral question. It would be completely different if those skins came with power and suddenly the game was buy to win. But skins?

I guess everyone must draw their own moral line in the sand, but it seems particularly inane to me to quit a game because I can’t have the skin I want without gambling.

Yep. Sorry folks but you were not “scammed”. You may be disappointed with the outcome of your choice to take a chance on buying BLCs with gold or RL currency, but that does not make it a scam.

Hey all! Do you know what a “Skinner Box” is? If not, watch this (or at least the first half of it).

Now, take a look at the Black Lion Chests. Yep, that’s a Skinner Box. And while I hate to admit it, they’re effective. They’re more than likely going to get more money this way than if they simply offered the tickets for direct purchase, even at a higher price.

The problem is, there’s a threshold where you decide the button/action isn’t working. That it’s never going to pay out. At that point, the engagement turns into embitterment, and they walk away, sometimes to never return. They feel cheated, robbed of time and money. And perhaps for good reason, too.

They say it’s a fine line between love and hate. Well, in this case, that’s true. And RNG stuff like this can push people over that line, from loving the game to hating it. So the next time they put something like this into the game, realize what might happen if you chase after it. Decide if it’s really worth it, of if you’d be better off just ignoring it.

Personally? I love the look of many of those weapons, but I don’t want to burn out on the game due to bad luck. So, I’m going to just ignore them and keep right on playing.

I got very lucky
I completed 2 zones, got a key from both then another 2 from the chests and then the last one dropped the claim. So 4 key’s and no gems spent.

I spent 60g on chests, nothing, I learned my lesson.

Stormcrow.7513:

Of course Anet wants you to break out that platinum Visa and gamble away!! I love how the white knights of Anet will be protecting their precious company with defenses like “you dont need the skins anyways” and “you can use ingame gold”.
RNG for accomplishing a dungeon or event is one thing but making the skin available ONLY via BLC gambling is just bad.
BAD BAD BAD.

Yeah. Someone really needs to be sent back to college to take a full semester of nothing but ethics classes! It would be money well spent!

Not only do I find it unethical, but I honestly believe it does irreparable harm to their long term revenue stream and player retention, so it isn’t even a good decision for someone with no ethics.

Palador.2170:

Hey all! Do you know what a “Skinner Box” is? If not, watch this (or at least the first half of it).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c

Now, take a look at the Black Lion Chests. Yep, that’s a Skinner Box. And while I hate to admit it, they’re effective. They’re more than likely going to get more money this way than if they simply offered the tickets for direct purchase, even at a higher price.

The problem is, there’s a threshold where you decide the button/action isn’t working. That it’s never going to pay out. At that point, the engagement turns into embitterment, and they walk away, sometimes to never return. They feel cheated, robbed of time and money. And perhaps for good reason, too.

They say it’s a fine line between love and hate. Well, in this case, that’s true. And RNG stuff like this can push people over that line, from loving the game to hating it. So the next time they put something like this into the game, realize what might happen if you chase after it. Decide if it’s really worth it, of if you’d be better off just ignoring it.

Personally? I love the look of many of those weapons, but I don’t want to burn out on the game due to bad luck. So, I’m going to just ignore them and keep right on playing.

This is why the current implementation, no matter how much money it may make them short term, is completely destructive to their long term revenue stream. I’d point out that it’s not just those who actually make the mistake of playing at the BLC gambit that become embittered and reject the game, but a lot of people with a strong sense of ethics get turned off just knowing that a company will partake in behavior like this.

BLCs are a rip off. They could have been designed to offer a fair chance at a skin, preserving the potential for someone with deep pockets to still plunk down $100+ in pursuit of multiple skins, but apparently the lack of fairness is a key element to someone’s thinking. I guess it just isn’t fun unless they can sucker people who can’t really afford it to drop tons of money in the pursuit. Is that a lack of ethics? Or, is it something else entirely?

I normally just open chests as I get the keys, usually from story missions and I got my fused staff skin on my first try after the patch, so I’m not complaining on that part. BUT what I really dislike is that people who spend real life money or/and a lot of time on these black lion chests aren’t (often) properly rewarded for their effort and are just left with a sour taste in their mouths. Sure RNG is meant to make things random and can greatly reward the few lucky ones, but also not make it worth working for for dedicated players. Can’t they just add them to the gem store so those who want them so badly can spend money (real or not) and actually get what they want and the rest may be lucky enough to get them by chance. But this, of course, also makes them less rare and therefore lower their walue so less people would buy chests or keys and not care where ever someone had a fused weapon or not. So I don’t know excactly what they could do to make it “fair”.

Anet cares more about money than making the player base happy, plain and simple.

I saw tons of people running around with the Wintersday weapons. I thought some were nice but not worth the cost and that’s okay. It’s my choice whether or not to pay because I can weigh the cost vs reward as I see it.

I have no such ability to measure that when I have to gamble to get something. It could cost me one key or it could take one hundred. You don’t know.

I’m pretty much going to stop being excited for new content if I have to be rich in game or in real life to have a guaranteed shot at it even being available to me.

Make it available and let me decide if it is worth the asking price on my own.

Substance E.4852:

Anet cares more about money than making the player base happy, plain and simple.

I saw tons of people running around with the Wintersday weapons. I thought some were nice but not worth the cost and that’s okay. It’s my choice whether or not to pay because I can weigh the cost vs reward as I see it.

I have no such ability to measure that when I have to gamble to get something. It could cost me one key or it could take one hundred. You don’t know.

I’m pretty much going to stop being excited for new content if I have to be rich in game or in real life to have a guaranteed shot at it even being available to me.

Make it available and let me decide if it is worth the asking price on my own.

You act as if there are no weapon skins in game that have been introduce that you don’t have to gamble for. Fractal weapon skins can be gotten without cash, guild rewards can be obtained if you join a guild to do guild missions, there have been weapon skins you could just buy in the shop, and more will be added to the game over time, including the new SAB skins. I already got a backpack skin for my Asura.

I agree that it sucks to have this sort of RNG in the game, but there have been other things added to the game after launch that you could either just buy or you could get with in game currency.

Here is a genius idea. Instead of complaining when you play the RNG game realize it is gambling. You don’t always win when you gamble in Vegas you don’t always win when you gamble in Anet’s RNG cycle. If you play their RNG game and loose you have no right to complain because again – It is GAMBLING. If you like the skin and go for it, sure, go for it. Just keep in mind GAMBLING… Anet has the right to do this and people who want to play with their money can play with it like that… Its not Anet’s fault you just lost x amount of gold or money. lets look at the cause here. YOU wanted the skin YOU spent the money. All Anet did was put a skin out there that gives YOU the option to try to get it. So before you blame the developers, lets look at the cause of your frustration. If you worked at your job for a week and made 100 dollars, then spent it all on lottery tickets, whose fault is it if you don’t win? Yours? Or is it the person who facilitates the lottery… You did not have to buy in. But you did, and you lost, plain and simple.

Fiontar.4695:

Not only do I find it unethical, but I honestly believe it does irreparable harm to their long term revenue stream and player retention, so it isn’t even a good decision for someone with no ethics.

Neither of these are of a primary concern to the company. The majority of players will play off and on, perhaps spend a few bucks on gems but will not be impacted by the RNG boxes either way. The “whales” who spend lots of money become personally invested in the game and won’t leave because of the RNG boxes, in fact they’ll spend more money on them because of them. The fact that the skins are hard to get make them more attractive, not less.

The players who try the game and permanently quit, will do so no matter what Anet does, so trying to keep them is pointless. There are only two things that will change the situation with the RNG boxes, when they stop selling well enough or when the laws change in such a way that it prohibits them.

Spent 3000 gems on Keys – Opened more than 40 boxes – Got no ticket. Thanks Arenanet for learning me this lessons. I am out !

HPLT.7132:

Spent 3000 gems on Keys – Opened more than 40 boxes – Got no ticket. Thanks Arenanet for learning me this lessons. I am out !

You… Do realize that these are no longer available right…? Was this just an incredibly late reply, or did you try opening them now? Cause if you tried them now, you could open a million and you’d still not get them…

ProxyDamage.9826:

HPLT.7132:

Spent 3000 gems on Keys – Opened more than 40 boxes – Got no ticket. Thanks Arenanet for learning me this lessons. I am out !

You… Do realize that these are no longer available right…? Was this just an incredibly late reply, or did you try opening them now? Cause if you tried them now, you could open a million and you’d still not get them…

I would like to know the answer to this as well…man, would hate to that guy still trying to get the fused weapon tickets

Opened them indeed today. Was in hospital due to an ellbow injury in may (3rd-28th) and didnt found any special hint in the patchnotes on wiki. Since vendor is still selling the items i thought they would still be available. However lost alot of gems but learned my lesson.

HPLT.7132:

Opened them indeed today. Was in hospital due to an ellbow injury in may (3rd-28th) and didnt found any special hint in the patchnotes on wiki. Since vendor is still selling the items i thought they would still be available. However lost alot of gems but learned my lesson.

Try putting in a ticket…you never know, maybe they can roll back your account and giva you a refund.

But someone would tell me why now only some weapons fused can be sell and not others?
Now that the fused are no longer accout bound you should be able to sell them all!