Guild Wars 2

I’ve read many many threads on how to improve pve and the consensus seems to be “put in more challenging and engaging encounters” that are not facerolled by 90% of the player base.

Do people agree with this or do people find Pve particularly the large bosses and dungeon bosses/mob packs challenging ?

The more I play, the more I begin to find that I need to amend my thoughts on GW2 PvE.

IMO, the real issue PvE gameplay faces is quality rather than quantity.
Exclude any of the “solo” activities (Crafting, SPs, JPs, map completion, gear grinds), one might say there is still enough content to visit – DEs, hearts, dungeons, etc; the real issue is how much of the PvE group play really requires any skill?

With the exception of only a few dungeon bosses I’ve come across, most of the PvE gameplay seems to be just a mindless zerg and doesn’t really appeal to the strategic gamer in me. Granted there’s the occasional “don’t stand in fire”, and a sprinkling of telegraphed attacks to dodge; yet aside from that, there really doesn’t feel to be much in the way of successfully completing the event, nor are there any real consequences of winning / losing the battles.

Albeit all the bugs that I’m sure ANet is aware of / working on, IMO they really need to revisit a large number of the PvE mechanics. As well, if they truly want to follow the philosophy that “everything is endgame” (although I have other issues w/ that statement), then they’d really need to challenge the audience more through the leveling experience.

The tactical elements are entirely about positioning. The timing, etc, all has an action feel. It’s just not a strong tactical game- at least in PvE.

have you been to orr yet? if you havent you ll be complaining of the massive respawn rate everything comes back

Gatts.4865:

have you been to orr yet? if you havent you ll be complaining of the massive respawn rate everything comes back

The only thing increasing spawn rates does is make pure DPS builds mandatory, and is easily countered with a group of more people. I think he’s referring to a more fundamental sense that NPCs are uninspired, lacking depth which could offer to make them more challenging.

I’m finding the majority of Orr content to be pretty easy solo, and I run an elementalist which is supposedly considered a lesser profession.

I find most of PvE mind numbingly dull. I have a hard time playing alts, because of slow leveling and no challenge. I literally am getting 1 of my alts up 1 level per day via daily achievements, because it seems to the most efficient way to level and I’m the type of person who wants to get to the hard content as quickly as possible, since that’s what holds my attention. It’s a lot harder for me play the majority of PvE than EM Dungeons are difficult.

Casual combat, for a casual game. I still find it better than trinity gameplay.

I can’t say what is wrong with it or what can be done to properly fix it. A combination of things would probably help pinpoint a fix. From the beginning combat is so easy you only need to use your auto-attack, at level 80 there are repetitive combos that frequently get repeated on tougher enemies. There are different issues at both sides of the spectrum. What can be done to make PvE more exciting?

The issues lie in the lack of class structure, segmented skill bar options, lack of real customization or identity because of weapon abilities and their static nature…i feel the combat is too homogeneous and roles are way too ill-defined. It’s fine to not want tank and spank, but there’s a reason it exists. GW1 was more engaging because it had resource management and a trinity-like system that relied heavily on skill, timing, and deck building. I feel like the disconnect lies somewhere within.

The fact that every class has an auto attack might be part of the problem.

In GW1 everyone could auto attack, but if your build wasn’t specced into your weapon attribute, you did completely negligible damage, and had to damage or support through higher cooldown, higher impact skills. This created a lot more variety in terms of min/maxing weapon focus, and allowed some professions (like Paragon) to choose between doing lots of auto attack damage, or lots of supporting.

I literally have Guild Wars open and I’m having more fun in it than in Guild Wars 2……. :\

Edit for relevancy: I just don’t think the PvE is in this game is on par with its predecessor.

Guild wars 2 is the easiest game I have ever played MMO or otherwise very disappointing with this aspect. And casual does not equal easy, you dont need to be hardcore to enjoy a challenge from a video game.

Honestly, I only really PvE anymore when I’m in a group. I have a static group that gets together twice a week and it’s helped stave off boredom a lot.

I think one of the problems is that when soloing, most classes play pretty much exactly alike. You pick a type of damage (Condition, Crit, Power), a survival attribute (Vit, Toughness, Healing), then you find a weapon combination that works best with that combination and use it for the rest of eternity.

When grouping you can respec into new and more interesting builds, since there’re quite a few abilities and weapons that range anywhere from useless to mediocre when you’re by yourself, but shine in group play.

I think I’m going to have to pick up either WvW or sPvP in order to make things even remotely interesting again.

P.S. Don’t get me wrong, I’m enjoying the game immensely, but most of my enjoyment comes from either my friends or activities where we make our own fun (RPing), not so much the game itself anymore.

People are just use to WoW…but it’s no different really. Besides bosses, all the mobs in WoW dungeons, even in Vanilla were just trash…and basically for zerging, spanking down.

The ‘trinity’ system didn’t even really exists till raiding in WoW. We basically DPS’d our way through all the 5 mans in WoW up till UBRS and even then didn’t have a dedicated tank or healers…just more off tank types and spot healing.

@Ryth
WoW pve was much more challenging and engaging that GW2. In WoW you had to adapt to the situation (excluding easy tank spanks). In GW2 every fight seems like the same thing (except a very few bosses) 1. Do dmg, usally ranged, until in danger 2. dodge, lose aggro, heal 3. go back to step 1

Try playing an elementalist.

There’s a fine line between challenging and frustrating, the elementalist took one good look at that line and took a flying leap over it, landing at a run on the other side. I have a level 60 ele that I’ve pretty much given up on in favor of leveling an alt.

Polluxo.4967:

Gatts.4865:

have you been to orr yet? if you havent you ll be complaining of the massive respawn rate everything comes back

The only thing increasing spawn rates does is make pure DPS builds mandatory, and is easily countered with a group of more people. I think he’s referring to a more fundamental sense that NPCs are uninspired, lacking depth which could offer to make them more challenging.

Regardless, you shouldn’t need to get to Orr to experience tough content. Guild Wars 1 has lots of tough content before Ring of Fire.

I think one of the problems is that when soloing, most classes play pretty much exactly alike. You pick a type of damage (Condition, Crit, Power), a survival attribute (Vit, Toughness, Healing), then you find a weapon combination that works best with that combination and use it for the rest of eternity.

I was telling my friend that I just felt very “meh” about my toons. None of them really stands out as playing differently. It’s almost like they are the same toon just with different weapons. The mages (ele) aren’t powerhouse damage dealers, you can’t get into being a healer or tank due to the attempted assasination of the trinity.

If everyone is equal then you kind of lose the flavor of being something unique or doing a role well because there is only one role and everyone is that. I can’t really save someone nor can they save me. I can “support” them and watch as they run right out of the heal I tried to throw for them (oops). I have tried to keep an open mind about everything but that’s kinda where I’m at.

I think having all your weapon skills right off the bat…makes them seem old by the time you are 80th. It was fun in other games…knowning when you got to X level you would get some cool new spell/attack. Like you get it and you are…wow look at me now. So here I am at 80th…using the same skills since the start.

Orr with my guardian was easy as pie. I rarely die and hunt ori ore solo all over the zone. Do people really find Orr hard?

Agreed with all posts, they need to do something about weapon skill customization.

PvE in GW2 is fun in groups…. The problem is they’ve built the game not to require them except in Dungeons, WvW and on sPvP teams.

Really all the game needed was repeatable cooperative story (missions) taking place every. These should be happening once every 5 levels or so.

ArenaNet might say “we have story mode dungeons happening at about that frequency” but it’s not the same thing at all.

I’m 100% ok with them locking certain skills to certain weapons. The answer is to add different types of weapons. Instead of one type of Greatssword offer 3-4

You’re not going to get much more of a challenge (strategy-wise anyway) without a trinity. The impatient people that can’t find guilds wanted it, so this is what we got.

It’s better with friends. I’m starting to get bored playing alone to be honest. What makes it worse is you get your starter skills waaay too quick, nothing really to look forward to in later PvE. The dungeon thing is too high too. Level 30 for your first dungeon? It should of been like 10-15. This would of made it more fun. I’m a PvE person but PvE is a little stale after a bit and I’m only level 22.

Sadly the OP is completely right.
The bigger the enemy, the more boring it gets. The 3 dragons, Priest of Balthazar and not to forget the final battle.

Borked.6824:

You’re not going to get much more of a challenge (strategy-wise anyway) without a trinity. The impatient people that can’t find guilds wanted it, so this is what we got.

Completely agreed, it’s too homogenized.

You’re not going to get much more of a challenge (strategy-wise anyway) without a trinity. The impatient people that can’t find guilds wanted it, so this is what we got.

I have a guild from the original guild wars, I like both trinity or no trinity, but even with a guild there is no strategy or challenge.

Polluxo.4967:

Gatts.4865:

have you been to orr yet? if you havent you ll be complaining of the massive respawn rate everything comes back

The only thing increasing spawn rates does is make pure DPS builds mandatory, and is easily countered with a group of more people. I think he’s referring to a more fundamental sense that NPCs are uninspired, lacking depth which could offer to make them more challenging.

It’s unfortunate that your statement rings so true. I’ve never been a dps player and would rather have the option to spec myself out to survive a mass attack wave like that even if it takes me 15 minutes; but in GW2, that’s just not possible. It’s all abotu DPS, DPS and AOE DPS.

wookie slayer.4259:

Orr with my guardian was easy as pie. I rarely die and hunt ori ore solo all over the zone. Do people really find Orr hard?

not hard; supremely annoying. Some days, I feel like Orr is perfectly fine, then the mobs decide to play ping pong with my CC prone carcass, one knocks me back into range of another mob aggro so he decides to pull me which puts me in range of another. Then that 3rd one knocks me down/roots me, where the first mob decides he can play the pull game as well so there goes my toon flying back where he came from before something pulls me to yet another area.

I ended up dying because I couldn’t even cast my heals before I got another CC. that happened to me last night and all I did was spend 10 seconds watching my toon completely out of my own control.

Not hard, annoying.

Lol, the boss fights in this game is ridiculous. 10 to 20 player getting together, spamming their skills. SURPRISE! the boss hits and 10 of the 20 players get downed. Ok, let’s revive them and continue on spamming skills. BAM, the boss is dead, loot and get away from there.

Boring, completely.

I battled the Shadow Behemoth yesterday and boy was it uneventful to say the least, I was disappointed and as much as I like PvE in games…
It was a complete zerg-fest. The thing hit like 2 times, screamed, hands down, and hit about 2 times and we won in like 3 mins +lagville. You dead? No worried, 40 out of the 100 of us got your back.
Revive and let’s go.

There is no strategy in this game. Zerg and go home. I am noticing it more and more as I go along. Still a great game but…I hate to see dungeons. I hope they are fun …

you’re talking about world bosses…I dont remember too much strategy for world bosses in WoW when they first came out..the dragon was just..run around, hit it with all you have..hope someone doesnt ninja loot the corpse for the loot….thats it. So stop pretending it was something fantastic.

Another WoW comment. I never played WoW and this was my 1st time ever participating in something like this in any MMO so I has hoping for more…toughness or something. It’s also Zerg in DE’s. It’s all you do lmao.

what do you expect honestly? There are tons of people wanting a reward, there are stages to the process..but without putting invisible barriers to the enemy and saying your damage is nothing no matter what you do..there is little they can do..if they make it too difficult, people will just skip it..if they make it too confusing, people will skip it..

In other MMO’s boss battles are about figuring out a puzzle, being in the right place and avoiding a rage timer..thats about it..

everyone can argue what the real problem is and how it might have been better or worste somewhere else. But i think most of us can agree theres a problem. In an attempt to create some new features and eliminate old problems they spawned new ones. Did they try to re-invent too many wheels? Probably, theres definitly some new things that are working better than others. But in the end, i think this may just be the way the game is…and its sorta a “you like easy zerging have fun, you dont play something else”. I have to assume this as i never see communication from developers in responce to this problem so it must be being ignored.

Back before release, I actually expected the pve in this game to really kick my kitten I thought that was going to be part of the “revolutionary” improvements, bringing back challenging pve content, even at lower levels. (not 1-15 mind you).

Cheap difficulty in the form of super high respawn rates, or one shot mechanics is not right, it’s just annoying and really offers in terms of strategy/thinking. Just because the game is in action game doesn’t mean it needs to be devoid of strategy.

Conncept.7638:

Try playing an elementalist.

There’s a fine line between challenging and frustrating, the elementalist took one good look at that line and took a flying leap over it, landing at a run on the other side. I have a level 60 ele that I’ve pretty much given up on in favor of leveling an alt.

Lol. Actually, my main is Ele. It’s the class I played the most and it played a factor in this conclusion.

Also, regarding some of the other replies in this thread – Artificially creating difficulty is not what I had in mind when it comes to adding challenge. It’s a complete cop-out when the game imposes this “illusion” of difficulty by either:

1. Increasing mob spawn rates
2. Increasing number of mobs within a given viscinity
3. Increasing boss / mob HP
4. Increasing boss / mob DMG output
5. Reducing a player’s effectiveness against bosses / mobs

What I do consider adds elements of skill / challenge

1. Using environmental obstacles / tools to overcome bosses / mobs
2. Adding encounter mechanics that require accurate timing
3. Remove the ability to use waypoints immediately after death during an encounter (perhaps put a timer on when you can use it), to prevent spawn-zerging
4. Granular encounter mechanics that require 2 or more people to coordinate

Zergs do make the game way too easy but its easily fixable, just avoid the zerg! if you dont join it it will not make your life easy.

Only problem with that is unless you try them at an unsual hour you will not be able to avoid the zerg when it comes to world bosses.

That being said Most events are a bit on the easy side especially when you’re down scaled. I would like if you dont get scaled area level + 1 at the very least! a harsher downscale penalty perhaps that scales with your level (the more traits you have unlocked the bigger the penalty) might also help make things more intersting. As it is right now doing any event <60 unless its a group event that you solo you will not die unless you make a big mistake! Would love if the game was more lethal then that!

Well, Alto, is it this you’re talking about?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Come-On-DYING-IN-2-SECONDS
If it is, it’s PvP related.
If not, my bad.
Still, this game feels too light on combat mechanics PvE wise. So it becomes boring. While you guys are right about the faulty Events and Bosses mechanics, the lack of skills (in general, don’t talk about ele here please) is a problem as well.
I remember, I played vanilla wow, from the beginning, for a little while. I remember how tough leveling was, and how I enjoyed it. And then.. well WoW became what it is.
Here in GW2, level is not only easy, it becomes dull pretty quickly.
But then, a lot of people will argue that GW2 is primarily a PvP game… which might be true, I don’t know? I don’t enjoy PvP myself. But if so, it should be clearly stated that PvE is just an excuse to get used to classes’ gameplay, and people would just quit or live with it.
As long as the doubt remains, people will get mad at the PvE gameplay and patch notes.

ounkeo.9138:

wookie slayer.4259:

Orr with my guardian was easy as pie. I rarely die and hunt ori ore solo all over the zone. Do people really find Orr hard?

not hard; supremely annoying. Some days, I feel like Orr is perfectly fine, then the mobs decide to play ping pong with my CC prone carcass, one knocks me back into range of another mob aggro so he decides to pull me which puts me in range of another. Then that 3rd one knocks me down/roots me, where the first mob decides he can play the pull game as well so there goes my toon flying back where he came from before something pulls me to yet another area.

I ended up dying because I couldn’t even cast my heals before I got another CC. that happened to me last night and all I did was spend 10 seconds watching my toon completely out of my own control.

Not hard, annoying.

LOL, I had this very issue just the other day. Wife and I were playing and went down to the beach I got chain pulled by the mobs five times and ended up all the way down the beach. It was annoying yet somehow funny at the same time. Those mobs that pull have got to be changed. They suck. That said, I’ve not really had too hard of a time soloing, but it can be hard in some areas. I’m sure that may change with better gear in time though.

No Leaf Clover.4893:

Well, Alto, is it this you’re talking about?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Come-On-DYING-IN-2-SECONDS
If it is, it’s PvP related.
If not, my bad.
Still, this game feels too light on combat mechanics PvE wise. So it becomes boring. While you guys are right about the faulty Events and Bosses mechanics, the lack of skills (in general, don’t talk about ele here please) is a problem as well.
I remember, I played vanilla wow, from the beginning, for a little while. I remember how tough leveling was, and how I enjoyed it. And then.. well WoW became what it is.
Here in GW2, level is not only easy, it becomes dull pretty quickly.
But then, a lot of people will argue that GW2 is primarily a PvP game… which might be true, I don’t know? I don’t enjoy PvP myself. But if so, it should be clearly stated that PvE is just an excuse to get used to classes’ gameplay, and people would just quit or live with it.
As long as the doubt remains, people will get mad at the PvE gameplay and patch notes.

I saw that, yes, my mistake then.

However, these threads appear all the time, there’s been countless threads about game difficulty, often having polar opposite opinions in them. My point was that it’s just swings and roundabouts. So if there’s a bunch of each, then the game is probably pretty well balanced…?

Your right the game is too easy overall. Most of the game ends up being a zerg. Only the dungeons are challenging and even those only require zerging some of time. There are some interesting bosses in them but they arnt perfect. The meta DE’s were supposed to be what raiders from other games would come and do but they didnt replicate the challenge.

If DE’s are not supposed to be hard then thats fine but they need to add something challeging to the game for the people who like a challege and for people in larger guilds. Tune the dungeons better, add more interesting mechanics, add 10 /20 man mode.

Or add instanced meta DEs that are way tougher than their outdoor version. That require precision timing, positioning, skill usage and teamwork.

Reward these with gear on level with whats available elsewhere. Could even just give dungeon tokens as a reward. So no gear grind.

PvE encouters are boring. In every mmo and that’s because they are predictables.
The most difficult encounter ever will be firstly frustrating, when you always wipe, and than boring when you are geared enough to farm it.
That’s why PvP is so much more funny than PvE, because there is no AI but only I.

It’s almost as if people were saying this nearly a month ago. At the time, those that said ANYTHING remotely negative about this game were told to go back to WoW. Most of us did.

I knew it was only a matter of time before people starting hitting 80, getting exotics and realizing they were done.

Like GW2’s bigger supporters will tell you, as they have told me weeks back " PvP is the endgame." And by Anet’s new post today, it seems thats really all they are focused on.

Galen Grey.4709:

Zergs do make the game way too easy but its easily fixable, just avoid the zerg! if you dont join it it will not make your life easy.

Only problem with that is unless you try them at an unsual hour you will not be able to avoid the zerg when it comes to world bosses.

That being said Most events are a bit on the easy side especially when you’re down scaled. I would like if you dont get scaled area level + 1 at the very least! a harsher downscale penalty perhaps that scales with your level (the more traits you have unlocked the bigger the penalty) might also help make things more intersting. As it is right now doing any event <60 unless its a group event that you solo you will not die unless you make a big mistake! Would love if the game was more lethal then that!

One of the reasons I prefer to have less people around is to avoid the zergs. Way more challenging fighting some events with 3 or 4 people. Dying doesn’t always get you a rez and matters a whole lot more to success or not. Some of the most fun I’ve had PVE wise is coming across a DE and I’m by myself at least for the first part of it.

In zergs as comments have suggested dying doesn’t matter. Many people just don’t bother to try to avoid anything. Red circles on the ground? What me worry. I watch people go boom all the time to things that could be avoided (especially melee) and either lie there and wait or just run back and continue fighting. Many open world event mobs do have mechanics it’s just that many people either don’t notice as much (because of the safety of zergs) or don’t care. Stick a few players in the same events and you can see who knows how to really play.

Not really sure how to change things to take the ‘zerg’ or zerg mentality into consideration. Make death count more? Likely to see big complaints. Make it harder? Then it might make it out of reach for tiny groups.

I’ve played a few other games and I have yet to see really challenging fights (beyond traditional raid set up fight) when a zerg occurs.

Jalliah.7862:

Not really sure how to change things to take the ‘zerg’ or zerg mentality into consideration. Make death count more? Likely to see big complaints. Make it harder? Then it might make it out of reach for tiny groups.

I’ve played a few other games and I have yet to see really challenging fights (beyond traditional raid set up fight) when a zerg occurs.

Your right, you cant fix the zergs because when something becomes too hard for a randomn player to come and join in and not be a burden, then it goes against what Arenanet said.

Like I said above the only way to get around this is to add an instanced raid type area so people who want something very difficult can get it while everyone else enjoys their outdoor DE’s.

Evil.9061:

It’s almost as if people were saying this nearly a month ago. At the time, those that said ANYTHING remotely negative about this game were told to go back to WoW. Most of us did.

I knew it was only a matter of time before people starting hitting 80, getting exotics and realizing they were done.

Like GW2’s bigger supporters will tell you, as they have told me weeks back " PvP is the endgame." And by Anet’s new post today, it seems thats really all they are focused on.

It was never hidden that PVP was a big focus. I’m not a big pvper in any game and it’s one of the reasons I never bothered with GW1 and that I waited to buy this one until a few friends had played for a few weeks and I could find out exactly what it was like. At this point I’m satisfied enough with casually making my way through the PVE aspect. It’s entertaining enough at this point. I haven’t quit my other game (not WOW) and continue to raid in it for that type of challenge.

I likely won’t do pvp until I finish leveling my characters. If I like it great. If not and the pve aspect doesn’t hold me then I’ll just let the game lie for a while. No big deal as it’s something I expected coming into it.

Ubung.7423:

I missed that comment. That doesn’t sound like a bad idea. It would have to be a separate area not just to let people know it’s much much more risky but to contain all the yelling and whining in chat. lol

Jalliah.7862:

Evil.9061:

It’s almost as if people were saying this nearly a month ago. At the time, those that said ANYTHING remotely negative about this game were told to go back to WoW. Most of us did.

I knew it was only a matter of time before people starting hitting 80, getting exotics and realizing they were done.

Like GW2’s bigger supporters will tell you, as they have told me weeks back " PvP is the endgame." And by Anet’s new post today, it seems thats really all they are focused on.

It was never hidden that PVP was a big focus. I’m not a big pvper in any game and it’s one of the reasons I never bothered with GW1 and that I waited to buy this one until a few friends had played for a few weeks and I could find out exactly what it was like. At this point I’m satisfied enough with casually making my way through the PVE aspect. It’s entertaining enough at this point. I haven’t quit my other game (not WOW) and continue to raid in it for that type of challenge.

I likely won’t do pvp until I finish leveling my characters. If I like it great. If not and the pve aspect doesn’t hold me then I’ll just let the game lie for a while. No big deal as it’s something I expected coming into it.

Yeah Gw2 is an Odd Duck to me. Spvp is completely separate from anything else in the game. Nothing connects to it.

That is what will be the Esport (if they iron out spectator mode) and its so strange, to me at least, how it is a separate entity completely.

PvE and WvW however on the other hand do play into each other (besides having repair bills) It’s almost as if Anet is working on two games at once. When that’s the case, usually one suffers.

Stark.1350:

You realize they have seperate teams dedicated to each thing, right Evil? That was explained by Colin. I don’t see how one thing can possibly “suffer”. Stop being melodramatic.

If PvE is so easy for you, why not make it more challenging for yourself? Don’t follow the zerg of players, try doing things on your own. Try duoing a champion with someone. Take on more mobs at once. PvE in WoW was a ginormous joke as well, I could solo everything in that game. It only got difficult in instances, which is the same respect as GW2.

Oh, you must have thought i was still playing this game. lol Heavens no. I just check the boards every now and again to see if there is anything that would make me want to log back in.

Sperate teams is of course less assets for the other aspect of the game. Which ever side of the fence you prefer, you want all assets working on that side. So we’ll go with sub optimal.

As for the suggestions of doing things that are illogical in an attempt to make things more challenging, naa. That’s a slippery slope as all things can be done. It’s all wasted time in the end.

You must have really wanted to use the word “melodramatic” there, as that post was far from it. But hey, to each their own.