GW 2 was advertised as a fun, casual MMO.
Ohh come on, of course you can, You dont even need exotics really.
Which part of this game you cannot play in exotics?
and please dont say level 50 fractals cause you might not survive level 50 in exotics sure but you can still play those same fractals in level 1 – 10.. even up to 20 if you’re good enough wearing not a single ascended item.
I did 38 with 0 ar but that doesn’t mean it’s doable when your whole team has unappropriate ar. You won’t survive maw at higher levels and there’s no way you can avoid its agony application. I can complete odd scale but not even and that’s where your reward for your effort lies.
And why would I do level 1-10. It’s like doing open world.
Its being added gradually they said when they’re done with ascended gear it will be possible to get any piece in different ways like it is possible to get exotic gear in different ways.
Hope dies last.
You can play everything with exotics bar a higher difficulty in one particular dungeon.
This one particular dungeon is what interests me.
But I am sorry you’re not the only player in the game and for sure they shouldnt design the game based on your likes and nothing else.
do you think the game would benefit if they remove everything except for fractals? cause I Sure wouldnt even though thats what interests you.
Ohh come on, of course you can, You dont even need exotics really.
Which part of this game you cannot play in exotics?
and please dont say level 50 fractals cause you might not survive level 50 in exotics sure but you can still play those same fractals in level 1 – 10.. even up to 20 if you’re good enough wearing not a single ascended item.I did 38 with 0 ar but that doesn’t mean it’s doable when your whole team has unappropriate ar. You won’t survive maw at higher levels and there’s no way you can avoid its agony application. I can complete odd scale but not even and that’s where your reward for your effort lies.
And why would I do level 1-10. It’s like doing open world.
Thats not the argument, the argument is if you can play everything using just exotic gear which you can.
Keep in mind without the AR mechanic then fractals wouldnt be any more difficult then any other part of the open world either. Hence if they didnt have ascended gear you wouldnt have your hard content cause they still need to satisfy the notion that any content is doable without having to worry for gear and that includes exotic gear too.
Its being added gradually they said when they’re done with ascended gear it will be possible to get any piece in different ways like it is possible to get exotic gear in different ways.
Hope dies last.
It has nothing to do with hope. Just look at the ascended gear introduced till now. Originally you could get it just by doing Fractals
Now except for weapons you can get it by basically doing anything except for crafting.
They’ve already been increasing the scope of how to earn it. The expanded way of earning ascended gear is not some wishful thinking that has no bases in reality. plenty of updates have widened the scope already.
Thats not the argument, the argument is if you can play everything using just exotic gear which you can.
You can also jump from a bridge or tower.
Keep in mind without the AR mechanic then fractals wouldnt be any more difficult then any other part of the open world either. Hence if they didnt have ascended gear you wouldnt have your hard content cause they still need to satisfy the notion that any content is doable without having to worry for gear and that includes exotic gear too.
Right, scales 40+ are as hard as mining mithril in orr.
But I am sorry you’re not the only player in the game and for sure they shouldnt design the game based on your likes and nothing else.
do you think the game would benefit if they remove everything except for fractals? cause I Sure wouldnt even though thats what interests you.
I’m sorry but dungeon/fractal runners had no meaningful content since last November. And I don’t ask dear anet to design game around me but with consideration of me and other like-minded individuals. Right now, there is only one group of players that’s being considered. Other groups like dungeon/fractal runners and pvp players are either completely or mostly ignored. I’m sure people like you enjoy what anet does but it doesn’t satisfy other people.
They added those methods because people were complaining. And after more than half a year they made exactly same mistake.
Thats not the argument, the argument is if you can play everything using just exotic gear which you can.
You can also jump from a bridge or tower.
Keep in mind without the AR mechanic then fractals wouldnt be any more difficult then any other part of the open world either. Hence if they didnt have ascended gear you wouldnt have your hard content cause they still need to satisfy the notion that any content is doable without having to worry for gear and that includes exotic gear too.
Right, scales 40+ are as hard as mining mithril in orr.
can you do level 40 fractals in rares? Can you do level 10 fractals in rares yes!
why is that what does level 40 fractals have different then a level 10 fractal?
Mostly AR
I dont know whats so confusing about that? Arenanet said it from day 1. They dont want to do any content thats gated to players unless they have specific gear. That means that any content they release has to be done with any tier of gear you have which in turns it makes it very difficult to have really hard content. AR was the solution to that problem. And weather you like it or not that difficulty exists thanks to verticial progression of the Gear AR resistance compared to the fractal AR.
But I am sorry you’re not the only player in the game and for sure they shouldnt design the game based on your likes and nothing else.
do you think the game would benefit if they remove everything except for fractals? cause I Sure wouldnt even though thats what interests you.
I’m sorry but dungeon/fractal runners had no meaningful content since last November. And I don’t ask dear anet to design game around me but with consideration of me and other like-minded individuals. Right now, there is only one group of players that’s being considered. Other groups like dungeon/fractal runners and pvp players are either completely or mostly ignored. I’m sure people like you enjoy what anet does but it doesn’t satisfy other people.
People who don’t consider temporary content content are simply wrong. The content may not still be here, but there has been more than one temporary dungeon in that time frame and they’ve been around for a couple of weeks at a time.
You don’t have the content NOW, but you have had the content.
And people who limit themselves to one content type are never going to have enough content no matter what.
But I am sorry you’re not the only player in the game and for sure they shouldnt design the game based on your likes and nothing else.
do you think the game would benefit if they remove everything except for fractals? cause I Sure wouldnt even though thats what interests you.
I’m sorry but dungeon/fractal runners had no meaningful content since last November. And I don’t ask dear anet to design game around me but with consideration of me and other like-minded individuals. Right now, there is only one group of players that’s being considered. Other groups like dungeon/fractal runners and pvp players are either completely or mostly ignored. I’m sure people like you enjoy what anet does but it doesn’t satisfy other people.
Not true on any count…
1. Dungeoneers have got 2 dungeons, MF and AR both of which where quite good
2. Next update they’re going to get a new lvl 80 path in an existant dungeon
3. AC redesign
4. Fractals themselves
5. New Ascended gear
6. You got to choose a new fractal which will be released by the end of the year
7. MF and AR are both coming back as new fractals
Thats hardly no meaningful content or 0 consideration for players like you, I dont know where you’re getting such an idea!
same thing with PvP, new sPvP maps, countless changes to WvW
Everyone got something they enjoy and everyone got something they dont enjoy… I am no different then anyone else.
I am not a dungeon person, I would have rather they didnt do Ascended gear, they didnt do fractals, they didnt do MF and AR, Or updated AC and instead focused on the open world with new hopefully more challenging Dynamic Events. But I would certainly not going to claim Anet dont care about me just because they did other stuff like fractals and the rest mentioned above! some updates likes The bazaar of the 4 winds are targetted at what I enjoy doing, Some updates like the Aetherblade pirates are targeted at people who enjoy dungeons.
Which is the one group of players that are being considered, those you like vertical progression? cause that couldnt be further from the truth.
can you do level 40 fractals in rares? Can you do level 10 fractals in rares yes!
why is that what does level 40 fractals have different then a level 10 fractal?
Mostly AR
I dont know whats so confusing about that? Arenanet said it from day 1. They dont want to do any content thats gated to players unless they have specific gear. That means that any content they release has to be done with any tier of gear you have which in turns it makes it very difficult to have really hard content. AR was the solution to that problem. And weather you like it or not that difficulty exists thanks to verticial progression of the Gear AR resistance compared to the fractal AR.
I see. I’ve been arguing this whole time with someone who has no clue how fractals works. Kudos to you. AR is the least what makes levels 40 and 10 different.
They added those methods because people were complaining. And after more than half a year they made exactly same mistake.
People always complain, there is no way to get around that. People have also strongly complained about ascended gear in general, they didnt remove it just because people complained now did they?
They spread it around because they always had the intention of doing just that but count afford to implement it everywhere at once not in the time frame they had. Implementing things everywhere takes time. You need time to implement it and you need time to test it. Just look at all the work required to implement crafting of Ascended gear. New materials, which meant new icons, new models, modification of many loot tables and new art work. They even introduced new mechanics like time gated crafting which required code changes and thus additional testing. Future releases will have it a lot easier to include ascended gear through crafting but to do it the first time it was not a trivial thing you could fit along side a major release like say guild missions.
can you do level 40 fractals in rares? Can you do level 10 fractals in rares yes!
why is that what does level 40 fractals have different then a level 10 fractal?
Mostly AR
I dont know whats so confusing about that? Arenanet said it from day 1. They dont want to do any content thats gated to players unless they have specific gear. That means that any content they release has to be done with any tier of gear you have which in turns it makes it very difficult to have really hard content. AR was the solution to that problem. And weather you like it or not that difficulty exists thanks to verticial progression of the Gear AR resistance compared to the fractal AR.
I see. I’ve been arguing this whole time with someone who has no clue how fractals works. Kudos to you. AR is the least what makes levels 40 and 10 different.
Great so then you dont need ascended gear at all since you dont need the resistance. Problem solved.
can you do level 40 fractals in rares? Can you do level 10 fractals in rares yes!
why is that what does level 40 fractals have different then a level 10 fractal?
Mostly AR
I dont know whats so confusing about that? Arenanet said it from day 1. They dont want to do any content thats gated to players unless they have specific gear. That means that any content they release has to be done with any tier of gear you have which in turns it makes it very difficult to have really hard content. AR was the solution to that problem. And weather you like it or not that difficulty exists thanks to verticial progression of the Gear AR resistance compared to the fractal AR.
I see. I’ve been arguing this whole time with someone who has no clue how fractals works. Kudos to you. AR is the least what makes levels 40 and 10 different.
A 40th level fractal isn’t significantly different from a 20th level fractal. The bosses have more health. The agony resistence goes up. It’s the same thing.
I wouldn’t call a 40th level fractal different from a 20th level fractal as far as content goes. Someone can see all the fractals, each individual one, and experience the idea of it by staying under level 20, or even under level 10.
They just get more challenging. If you want to do that stuff, get the gear to do it. If it’s too much work, don’t do it. Simple as that.
Not true on any count…
1. Dungeoneers have got 2 dungeons, MF and AR both of which where quite good
2. Next update they’re going to get a new lvl 80 path in an existant dungeon
3. AC redesign
4. Fractals themselves
5. New Ascended gear
6. You got to choose a new fractal which will be released by the end of the year
7. MF and AR are both coming back as new fractalsThats hardly no meaningful content or 0 consideration for players like you, I dont know where you’re getting such an idea!
same thing with PvP, new sPvP maps, countless changes to WvW
Everyone got something they enjoy and everyone got something they dont enjoy… I am no different then anyone else.
I am not a dungeon person, I would have rather they didnt do Ascended gear, they didnt do fractals, they didnt do MF and AR, Or updated AC and instead focused on the open world with new hopefully more challenging Dynamic Events. But I would certainly not going to claim Anet dont care about me just because they did other stuff like fractals and the rest mentioned above! some updates likes The bazaar of the 4 winds are targetted at what I enjoy doing, Some updates like the Aetherblade pirates are targeted at people who enjoy dungeons.
Which is the one group of players that are being considered, those you like vertical progression? cause that couldnt be further from the truth.
We had 2 temporary, story mode dungeons. I’m sure most people did them once and never came back. In the meantime, anet disbanded dungeon teams completely and send those developers to living story crap teams.
Fractal mob HP and damage scales up as you go in to higher levels, Galen.
All agony besides Maw agony is dodgeable so you can basically run every fractal besides solid ocean from 1-80 without any AR, but the increase in mob stats as you progress means you won’t be able to do the content with rares.
Sanctum of Rall (NA) – [LOD] – PvE/Dungeon Phantasm Mesmer build
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
Great so then you dont need ascended gear at all since you dont need the resistance. Problem solved.
Are you that ignorant? You cannot complete even scales without proper AR, it’s gear-gated. Read the fine manual before you start arguing on topic you have zero knowledge.
Fractal mob HP and damage scales up as you go in to higher levels, Galen.
All agony besides Maw agony is dodgeable so you can basically run every fractal besides solid ocean from 1-80 without any AR, but the increase in mob stats as you progress means you won’t be able to do the content with rares.
Thanks for the clarification. Like I said I play fractals casually if even, dungeons arent exactly my choice of content.
Would you really hit a level when rares arent feasable or is it just the difficulty would make the content unenjoyable?
Great so then you dont need ascended gear at all since you dont need the resistance. Problem solved.
Are you that ignorant? You cannot complete even scales without proper AR, it’s gear-gated. Read the fine manual before you start arguing on topic you have zero knowledge.
you’re the one who wants ascended gear out of the picture while retaining the difficulty of fractals as is. I already told you thats impossible without gating out people who dont want to care about gear which is one of the core pillars of this game.
Presented with that you said AR is unimportant and its all about the states when rebutted on that now you’re saying AR is crucial (which was my whole point all along) so please decide on a version and stick to it.
A 40th level fractal isn’t significantly different from a 20th level fractal. The bosses have more health. The agony resistence goes up. It’s the same thing.
I wouldn’t call a 40th level fractal different from a 20th level fractal as far as content goes. Someone can see all the fractals, each individual one, and experience the idea of it by staying under level 20, or even under level 10.
Content is same but the difficulty level is higher. It’s like a version of hard mode from gw1. And it is significant different because at higher levels you actually have to use the thing between your ears. Spamming autoattacks doesn’t work so well.
They just get more challenging. If you want to do that stuff, get the gear to do it. If it’s too much work, don’t do it. Simple as that.
I want to get a gear. The problem is it requires from me to spend some quality time with the most brainless and mind-numbing activities I have ever seen in whole game industry. Simple as that.
A 40th level fractal isn’t significantly different from a 20th level fractal. The bosses have more health. The agony resistence goes up. It’s the same thing.
I wouldn’t call a 40th level fractal different from a 20th level fractal as far as content goes. Someone can see all the fractals, each individual one, and experience the idea of it by staying under level 20, or even under level 10.
Content is same but the difficulty level is higher. It’s like a version of hard mode from gw1. And it is significant different because at higher levels you actually have to use the thing between your ears. Spamming autoattacks doesn’t work so well.
They just get more challenging. If you want to do that stuff, get the gear to do it. If it’s too much work, don’t do it. Simple as that.
I want to get a gear. The problem is it requires from me to spend some quality time with the most brainless and mind-numbing activities I have ever seen in whole game industry. Simple as that.
No you dont.. even if you decided not engage in a game of luck waiting for the drop you want you can definitely use money earned from fractals to level up your crafting to 500 and the only thing you need to earn because you cannot buy are stuff you get from doing dungeons, killing a few champions and completing a few temples / boss events… nothing really that mind-numbing as you call it.
Great so then you dont need ascended gear at all since you dont need the resistance. Problem solved.
Are you that ignorant? You cannot complete even scales without proper AR, it’s gear-gated. Read the fine manual before you start arguing on topic you have zero knowledge.
you’re the one who wants ascended gear out of the picture while retaining the difficulty of fractals as is. I already told you thats impossible without gating out people who dont want to care about gear which is one of the core pillars of this game.
Presented with that you said AR is unimportant and its all about the states when rebutted on that now you’re saying AR is crucial (which was my whole point all along) so please decide on a version and stick to it.
The higher levels of fractals are all doable with exotics though. Something people have been doing for quite some time; they’ve simply managed their AR needs through the few trinkets previously made available.
Anet could have just as easily added the AR slots to existing exotic armor, rather than implementing a whole new tier with greater gear stats. I think that might have been a better solution. Then just make the infusions the difficult part to obtain, to satisfy the grind seekers and ‘elite’ crowd. This would also have appeased non-fractals players, since they’d have the option of adding the infusions to their existing gear (instead of feeling like they have to re-gear)….but they wouldn’t be necessary. Just an added perk…
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
you’re the one who wants ascended gear out of the picture while retaining the difficulty of fractals as is. I already told you thats impossible without gating out people who dont want to care about gear which is one of the core pillars of this game.
Presented with that you said AR is unimportant and its all about the states when rebutted on that now you’re saying AR is crucial (which was my whole point all along) so please decide on a version and stick to it.
One last chance to explain this very simple concept to all simpletons. You need AR to complete even scales where you get rewarded. You cannot avoid agony there. You can do odd scales if you press dodge at the right time but there’s no reward for that. I want to have a different acquisition method of ascended gear than crafting and rng. I don’t care if they are superior by 6.(06)% than exotics, I need AR to be able to finish the content which I want to play.
Educate yourself first, you even admitted you don’t do them except casually. I don’t talk about issues I’m clueless. You’re just making people lose their time for the sake of what exactly? Trolling?
Great so then you dont need ascended gear at all since you dont need the resistance. Problem solved.
Are you that ignorant? You cannot complete even scales without proper AR, it’s gear-gated. Read the fine manual before you start arguing on topic you have zero knowledge.
you’re the one who wants ascended gear out of the picture while retaining the difficulty of fractals as is. I already told you thats impossible without gating out people who dont want to care about gear which is one of the core pillars of this game.
Presented with that you said AR is unimportant and its all about the states when rebutted on that now you’re saying AR is crucial (which was my whole point all along) so please decide on a version and stick to it.
The higher levels of fractals are all doable with exotics though. Something people have been doing for quite some time; they’ve simply managed their AR needs through the few trinkets previously made available.
Anet could have just as easily added the AR slots to existing exotic armor, rather than implementing a whole new tier with greater gear stats. I think that might have been a better solution. Then just make the infusions the difficult part to obtain, to satisfy the grind seekers and ‘elite’ crowd. This would also have appeased non-fractals players, since they’d have the option of adding the infusions to their existing gear (instead of feeling like they have to re-gear)….but they wouldn’t be necessary. Just an added perk…
Thats, thats what I imagined too.
Ar slot on exotics would be an option but I suppose they didnt go that route cause they’d still have a problem with people who only feel better gear is what rewards are about. might as well hit two birds with one stone.
you’re the one who wants ascended gear out of the picture while retaining the difficulty of fractals as is. I already told you thats impossible without gating out people who dont want to care about gear which is one of the core pillars of this game.
Presented with that you said AR is unimportant and its all about the states when rebutted on that now you’re saying AR is crucial (which was my whole point all along) so please decide on a version and stick to it.
One last chance to explain this very simple concept to all simpletons. You need AR to complete even scales where you get rewarded. You cannot avoid agony there. You can do odd scales if you press dodge at the right time but there’s no reward for that. I want to have a different acquisition method of ascended gear than crafting and rng. I don’t care if they are superior by 6.(06)% than exotics, I need AR to be able to finish the content which I want to play.
Educate yourself first, you even admitted you don’t do them except casually. I don’t talk about issues I’m clueless. You’re just making people lose their time for the sake of what exactly? Trolling?
Thanks I know AR on maw is un dodgeable and I know AR is dodgeable for everyone else. I am not that much of a newbe.
why are you being insulting all of a sudden, did I not respect your opinion and reply to you politely ? you want to remove respect from the equation fine, I can do that too.
I am sorry to say but the content you want to play is about getting better gear to tackle an ever increasing challenge. Getting the gear is part of the challenge you face. You find crafting too challenging? Sorry I guess this is as high as you’re able to get for now. You can always hope in the future they’ll do a way thats easier on you.
Great so then you dont need ascended gear at all since you dont need the resistance. Problem solved.
Are you that ignorant? You cannot complete even scales without proper AR, it’s gear-gated. Read the fine manual before you start arguing on topic you have zero knowledge.
you’re the one who wants ascended gear out of the picture while retaining the difficulty of fractals as is. I already told you thats impossible without gating out people who dont want to care about gear which is one of the core pillars of this game.
Presented with that you said AR is unimportant and its all about the states when rebutted on that now you’re saying AR is crucial (which was my whole point all along) so please decide on a version and stick to it.
The higher levels of fractals are all doable with exotics though. Something people have been doing for quite some time; they’ve simply managed their AR needs through the few trinkets previously made available.
Anet could have just as easily added the AR slots to existing exotic armor, rather than implementing a whole new tier with greater gear stats. I think that might have been a better solution. Then just make the infusions the difficult part to obtain, to satisfy the grind seekers and ‘elite’ crowd. This would also have appeased non-fractals players, since they’d have the option of adding the infusions to their existing gear (instead of feeling like they have to re-gear)….but they wouldn’t be necessary. Just an added perk…
Thats, thats what I imagined too.
Ar slot on exotics would be an option but I suppose they didnt go that route cause they’d still have a problem with people who only feel better gear is what rewards are about. might as well hit two birds with one stone.
I think Colin was only partially truthful in his PAX explanation as to why they gave us another gear tier. He stated that essentially they’d made an error in calculating how long it would take players to get the top tier of gear (exotics) and they had a set amount of ‘time’ that they wanted that gearing up to take. We, the players, blew that calculation out of the water, so they gave us Ascended. Something that does take a set amount of time, and requires a little bit of effort to obtain if you desire to. Ascended is still wholly optional for everything besides fractals, imo.
Additionally, I think when they were looking at this data, they were influenced by just the number of people that were asking for some type of gear progression. Something that was asked for, loudly, on these forums. I saw some of it in game, but no where near as much. In this sense, they gave in, and stepped away from pure horizontal progression, to appease what they felt the masses wanted. Didn’t make me happy in the least, but the way the implemented it, I have no sense of “must rush to get this.” Nothing beyond the desire to eventually have each character decked out in BiS options. Of course, I may skip it all together and just go straight for legendaries, seems like a more logical investment.
Of course, the introduction of this tier after the fact is more of the issue than anything else. Had GW2 launched with ascended and all it’s requirements, people wouldn’t be grumbling as loudly right now.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
No you dont.. even if you decided not engage in a game of luck waiting for the drop you want you can definitely use money earned from fractals to level up your crafting to 500 and the only thing you need to earn because you cannot buy are stuff you get from doing dungeons, killing a few champions and completing a few temples / boss events… nothing really that mind-numbing as you call it.
Hello. I’m brainless activity, nice to meet you.
And what money? You get more money for chopping down trees than for doing whole fractal run. This whole game has completely broken risk/reward ratio. You get the most money for doing the least risky activities while almost no money for doing the hardest. No wonder scrubbies like this game.
and tell me why is chopping down trees more profitable then running fractals? Because thats what arenanet did? Nope its because player like you feel its too much effort to spend 15 minutes gather and instead are willing to pay a premium to other players who are having the time of their life making more in 15 mins gathering then you make in an hour doing fractals.
Blame yourself for that not the game.
I think Colin was only partially truthful in his PAX explanation as to why they gave us another gear tier. He stated that essentially they’d made an error in calculating how long it would take players to get the top tier of gear (exotics) and they had a set amount of ‘time’ that they wanted that gearing up to take. We, the players, blew that calculation out of the water, so they gave us Ascended. Something that does take a set amount of time, and requires a little bit of effort to obtain if you desire to. Ascended is still wholly optional for everything besides fractals, imo.
Additionally, I think when they were looking at this data, they were influenced by just the number of people that were asking for some type of gear progression. Something that was asked for, loudly, on these forums. I saw some of it in game, but no where near as much. In this sense, they gave in, and stepped away from pure horizontal progression, to appease what they felt the masses wanted. Didn’t make me happy in the least, but the way the implemented it, I have no sense of “must rush to get this.” Nothing beyond the desire to eventually have each character decked out in BiS options. Of course, I may skip it all together and just go straight for legendaries, seems like a more logical investment.
Of course, the introduction of this tier after the fact is more of the issue than anything else. Had GW2 launched with ascended and all it’s requirements, people wouldn’t be grumbling as loudly right now.
Yes I have exactly the same impression as you agree 100%. Its hard to get data that tells you if a player wants vertical progression or not, its mostly an interpretation thing so this is something that I guess forum feedback played a large part in. However I guess it was collaborated by how players rushed to finish off their exotic sets and how they refused to leave Orr only because the best rewards were to be had there.
I am sure they always hoped that at max level players would just go finish off other zones, replay dynamic events they enjoyed, level alts etc.. etc.. when that didnt happen they were kind of forced to act. Either that or players would leave enmass in a few months once the farming routing in orr become too old. This was nothing but reaction to how the players behaved.
Thanks I know AR on maw is un dodgeable and I know AR is dodgeable for everyone else. I am not that much of a newbe.
why are you being insulting all of a sudden, did I not respect your opinion and reply to you politely ? you want to remove respect from the equation fine, I can do that too.
I am sorry to say but the content you want to play is about getting better gear to tackle an ever increasing challenge. Getting the gear is part of the challenge you face. You find crafting too challenging? Sorry I guess this is as high as you’re able to get for now. You can always hope in the future they’ll do a way thats easier on you.
I’m insulting you because all this time I thought I was arguing with someone who has remote idea how fractals work. Instead I found out I’ve been wasting time.
And now you started trolling. Crafting too challenging, are you trying to provoke me? It’s an exact definition of trolling.
and tell me why is chopping down trees more profitable then running fractals? Because thats what arenanet did? Nope its because player like you feel its too much effort to spend 15 minutes gather and instead are willing to pay a premium to other players who are having the time of their life making more in 15 mins gathering then you make in an hour doing fractals.
Blame yourself for that not the game.
I don’t even care about money, I can get it fast by selling arah paths. I care about being forced to do brainless activities to get dragonite ore.
No you dont.. even if you decided not engage in a game of luck waiting for the drop you want you can definitely use money earned from fractals to level up your crafting to 500 and the only thing you need to earn because you cannot buy are stuff you get from doing dungeons, killing a few champions and completing a few temples / boss events… nothing really that mind-numbing as you call it.
Hello. I’m brainless activity, nice to meet you.
And what money? You get more money for chopping down trees than for doing whole fractal run. This whole game has completely broken risk/reward ratio. You get the most money for doing the least risky activities while almost no money for doing the hardest. No wonder scrubbies like this game.
and tell me why is chopping down trees more profitable then running fractals? Because thats what arenanet did? Nope its because player like you feel its too much effort to spend 15 minutes gather and instead are willing to pay a premium to other players who are having the time of their life making more in 15 mins gathering then you make in an hour doing fractals.
Blame yourself for that not the game.
Chopping trees is more profitable because of ascended weapons making ancient wood logs cost like 15 silver each.
So tell us, why should Fractal 79 be less profitable than chopping trees? Why should pressing F or 1 be more rewarding than executing strategies and staying alive in the hardest content of the game? Why is it more rewarding to spam 1 on champions than it is to do Arah p4 which is terrible gold per hour?
Sanctum of Rall (NA) – [LOD] – PvE/Dungeon Phantasm Mesmer build
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
Morrï (Mesmer) | Serah Mahariel (Guardian) | Morrï Mahariel (Warrior)
“colesy’s on rampage today. Slaying casuals left, right and centre” – spoj
Seems like I have to record doing those awesome and enjoyable temple events. More than half of the time would be recording my desktop since you can easily alt-tab and still get full reward. Yet another great design. Ascension requires sacrifice, sacrifice of our brain cells.
Yes I have exactly the same impression as you agree 100%. Its hard to get data that tells you if a player wants vertical progression or not, its mostly an interpretation thing so this is something that I guess forum feedback played a large part in. However I guess it was collaborated by how players rushed to finish off their exotic sets and how they refused to leave Orr only because the best rewards were to be had there.
I am sure they always hoped that at max level players would just go finish off other zones, replay dynamic events they enjoyed, level alts etc.. etc.. when that didnt happen they were kind of forced to act. Either that or players would leave enmass in a few months once the farming routing in orr become too old. This was nothing but reaction to how the players behaved.
Essentially, yes. We have seen this type of ‘knee jerk’ reaction from Anet before (Izzy, I’m looking at you here. Still haven’t forgiven you for what you did to Smiter’s Boon!), so I don’t see why we’re so surprised by it now. It really could have been far worse (and I had expected far worse to be honest).
As it stands, they have given us some assurances that this is the last tier…..for now. They made no promises, but they can’t really. Companies that deal with changing markets can rarely make any type of ‘solid’ promise like that considering they can’t know what the future will bring, but I’m digressing. So I’ll hush there.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Thanks I know AR on maw is un dodgeable and I know AR is dodgeable for everyone else. I am not that much of a newbe.
why are you being insulting all of a sudden, did I not respect your opinion and reply to you politely ? you want to remove respect from the equation fine, I can do that too.
I am sorry to say but the content you want to play is about getting better gear to tackle an ever increasing challenge. Getting the gear is part of the challenge you face. You find crafting too challenging? Sorry I guess this is as high as you’re able to get for now. You can always hope in the future they’ll do a way thats easier on you.
I’m insulting you because all this time I thought I was arguing with someone who has remote idea how fractals work. Instead I found out I’ve been wasting time.
And now you started trolling. Crafting too challenging, are you trying to provoke me? It’s an exact definition of trolling.
And exactly what gave you that impression, when in this same thread I said I have 0 ascended gear, or when I said Fractals and dungeons are not my kind of content?
No I am not trolling, you yourself stated several times you find crafting too boring and you dont have the patience to deal with RNG even if all you need to do is play what you love. This is a challenge of patience even one where you dont really need to do anything except continue playing exactly what you’re playing. Yet you’re stating you cannot handle the situation as is.
And exactly what gave you that impression, when in this same thread I said I have 0 ascended gear, or when I said Fractals and dungeons are not my kind of content?
No I am not trolling, you yourself stated several times you find crafting too boring and you dont have the patience to deal with RNG even if all you need to do is play what you love. This is a challenge of patience even one where you dont really need to do anything except continue playing exactly what you’re playing. Yet you’re stating you cannot handle the situation as is.
I have a rule that I don’t speak on matters I’m not experienced enough with. I’m sure I’m not alone.
If getting good rng is a challenge of patience, why will we get precursor crafting/scavenger hunt?
No you dont.. even if you decided not engage in a game of luck waiting for the drop you want you can definitely use money earned from fractals to level up your crafting to 500 and the only thing you need to earn because you cannot buy are stuff you get from doing dungeons, killing a few champions and completing a few temples / boss events… nothing really that mind-numbing as you call it.
Hello. I’m brainless activity, nice to meet you.
And what money? You get more money for chopping down trees than for doing whole fractal run. This whole game has completely broken risk/reward ratio. You get the most money for doing the least risky activities while almost no money for doing the hardest. No wonder scrubbies like this game.
and tell me why is chopping down trees more profitable then running fractals? Because thats what arenanet did? Nope its because player like you feel its too much effort to spend 15 minutes gather and instead are willing to pay a premium to other players who are having the time of their life making more in 15 mins gathering then you make in an hour doing fractals.
Blame yourself for that not the game.
Chopping trees is more profitable because of ascended weapons making ancient wood logs cost like 15 silver each.
So tell us, why should Fractal 79 be less profitable than chopping trees? Why should pressing F or 1 be more rewarding than executing strategies and staying alive in the hardest content of the game? Why is it more rewarding to spam 1 on champions than it is to do Arah p4 which is terrible gold per hour?
who sets that 15s each? Arenanet? Nope, its players….
Why are players willing to pay 15s for a single ancient wood log where in literally 30 minutes you can gather 144 of them (assuming a Conservative 4 level 80 characters which I would assume most people have). Thats 21g in 30 minutes for crying out loud.
Dont ask me, ask those players who have no problem paying the 15s being asked of them.
But stop blaming the game… its not Arenanet or Gw2 who decided choping trees should be more rewarding then a high level fractal. It was the players who decided saving themselves 30 minutes of gathering time was worth an astronomical amount of gold.
And exactly what gave you that impression, when in this same thread I said I have 0 ascended gear, or when I said Fractals and dungeons are not my kind of content?
No I am not trolling, you yourself stated several times you find crafting too boring and you dont have the patience to deal with RNG even if all you need to do is play what you love. This is a challenge of patience even one where you dont really need to do anything except continue playing exactly what you’re playing. Yet you’re stating you cannot handle the situation as is.
I have a rule that I don’t speak on matters I’m not experienced enough with. I’m sure I’m not alone.
If getting good rng is a challenge of patience, why will we get precursor crafting/scavenger hunt?
Please, no you dont have that rule else why are you posting in a post regarding casuals. Or are you going to imply that high level fractals which is what you stated you play exclusively content you think is for casuals? Or are you going to imply you’re experianced with the rest of the game you refuse to play?
Why can we get ascended rings with laurels? is completing a daily challenging? simply speaking one challenge doesn’t preclude the other.
who sets that 15s each? Arenanet? Nope, its players….
Why are players willing to pay 15s for a single ancient wood log where in literally 30 minutes you can gather 144 of them (assuming a Conservative 4 level 80 characters which I would assume most people have). Thats 21g in 30 minutes for crying out loud.
Dont ask me, ask those players who have no problem paying the 15s being asked of them.
But stop blaming the game… its not Arenanet or Gw2 who decided choping trees should be more rewarding then a high level fractal. It was the players who decided saving themselves 30 minutes of gathering time was worth an astronomical amount of gold.
So increasing the amount of logs you need for one plank was a players’ decision.
Please, no you dont have that rule else why are you posting in a post regarding casuals. Or are you going to imply that high level fractals which is what you stated you play exclusively content you think is for casuals? Or are you going to imply you’re experianced with the rest of the game you refuse to play?
Why can we get ascended rings with laurels? is completing a daily challenging? simply speaking one challenge doesn’t preclude the other.
Except that you can get rings with laurerls.
Please, no you dont have that rule else why are you posting in a post regarding casuals. Or are you going to imply that high level fractals which is what you stated you play exclusively content you think is for casuals? Or are you going to imply you’re experianced with the rest of the game you refuse to play?
Why can we get ascended rings with laurels? is completing a daily challenging? simply speaking one challenge doesn’t preclude the other.
Except that you can get rings with laurerls.
Yes you can….. I was just looking at them the other day…..
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
who sets that 15s each? Arenanet? Nope, its players….
Why are players willing to pay 15s for a single ancient wood log where in literally 30 minutes you can gather 144 of them (assuming a Conservative 4 level 80 characters which I would assume most people have). Thats 21g in 30 minutes for crying out loud.
Dont ask me, ask those players who have no problem paying the 15s being asked of them.
But stop blaming the game… its not Arenanet or Gw2 who decided choping trees should be more rewarding then a high level fractal. It was the players who decided saving themselves 30 minutes of gathering time was worth an astronomical amount of gold.
So increasing the amount of logs you need for one plank was a players’ decision.
It’s the same thing though.
Players are the ones who make the planks and logs worth so much. Before Ascended, I remember the price of Ancient Wood logs being around the 60c mark. By that, it’d have still cost you around 1s80c to make a plank, as opposed to the 15s now.
Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
who sets that 15s each? Arenanet? Nope, its players….
Why are players willing to pay 15s for a single ancient wood log where in literally 30 minutes you can gather 144 of them (assuming a Conservative 4 level 80 characters which I would assume most people have). Thats 21g in 30 minutes for crying out loud.
Dont ask me, ask those players who have no problem paying the 15s being asked of them.
But stop blaming the game… its not Arenanet or Gw2 who decided choping trees should be more rewarding then a high level fractal. It was the players who decided saving themselves 30 minutes of gathering time was worth an astronomical amount of gold.
So increasing the amount of logs you need for one plank was a players’ decision.
You honestly think price shot up by 30x because crafting an ascended weapon requires 450 ancient logs which you can get in 2 hrs over 4 days with no issues?
Adding to this, the game also requires about 4m luck to max out magic find. Assuming an average of 50 luck per masterwork item which is extremely generous it would mean now players also need 80k master work items.
Thats 180x the amount of ancient wood you need for an ascended weapon but I dont see masterworks item increasing over 5000x times their price. Nope they barely change at all if even!
(edited by Galen Grey.4709)
who sets that 15s each? Arenanet? Nope, its players….
Why are players willing to pay 15s for a single ancient wood log where in literally 30 minutes you can gather 144 of them (assuming a Conservative 4 level 80 characters which I would assume most people have). Thats 21g in 30 minutes for crying out loud.
Dont ask me, ask those players who have no problem paying the 15s being asked of them.
But stop blaming the game… its not Arenanet or Gw2 who decided choping trees should be more rewarding then a high level fractal. It was the players who decided saving themselves 30 minutes of gathering time was worth an astronomical amount of gold.
So increasing the amount of logs you need for one plank was a players’ decision.
It’s the same thing though.
Players are the ones who make the planks and logs worth so much. Before Ascended, I remember the price of Ancient Wood logs being around the 60c mark. By that, it’d have still cost you around 1s80c to make a plank, as opposed to the 15s now.
ANet sets the price (within a margin of error) based on actions they take. I had a long post explaining why, but ANet made me log in again and I lost it. The very short answer is that in a virtual world natural laws don’t apply. ANet can shift the supply and demand curve at will.
Longer answer requires looking at how much players influence supply and demand vs. how much ANet does. Let’s say that price is set by supply and demand.
For supply, players decide whether they are willing to go chop down trees, but ANet decides how many trees there are, where the trees are (how much of a pain it is to get there), how many logs you get from a tree, how long you have to wait before you can chop down the tree again. There is no natural rule that determines any of this, it’s all made up. Suppose ANet changed things so that one swing of an axe gave 100 ancient wood logs. What do you think would happen to the price?
For demand (where most people think they have a choice), players decide if they want to craft an item, but ANet decides how desirable the item is and the recipe for the item.
In real life, you need a certain amount of wood to build a picnic table. But that doesn’t apply here. There is no natural law that says that a lump of mithrilium requires 50 mithril ingots. There is no natural law that says 3 logs make a plank (for example, at one point ANet increased them to 4 for one type of plank only). There is no natural law that you need an exotic insignia to make an ascended item. There is no rule that says you have to discover 10 exotic items to level crafting from 475-500.
I don’t think players have nearly the impact on price that you think they do.
Edit: To answer the question of why is it so expensive then? The obviously answer is that ANet wants it that way. What you need to consider is why.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
who sets that 15s each? Arenanet? Nope, its players….
Why are players willing to pay 15s for a single ancient wood log where in literally 30 minutes you can gather 144 of them (assuming a Conservative 4 level 80 characters which I would assume most people have). Thats 21g in 30 minutes for crying out loud.
Dont ask me, ask those players who have no problem paying the 15s being asked of them.
But stop blaming the game… its not Arenanet or Gw2 who decided choping trees should be more rewarding then a high level fractal. It was the players who decided saving themselves 30 minutes of gathering time was worth an astronomical amount of gold.
So increasing the amount of logs you need for one plank was a players’ decision.
It’s the same thing though.
Players are the ones who make the planks and logs worth so much. Before Ascended, I remember the price of Ancient Wood logs being around the 60c mark. By that, it’d have still cost you around 1s80c to make a plank, as opposed to the 15s now.
I don’t think this is true. I had a long post explaining why, but ANet made me log in again and I lost it. The very short answer is that in a virtual world natural laws don’t apply. ANet can shift the supply and demand curve at will.
Longer answer requires looking at how much players influence supply and demand vs. how much ANet does. Let’s say that price is set by supply and demand.
For supply, players decide whether they are willing to go chop down trees, but ANet decides how many trees there are, where the trees are (how much of a pain it is to get there), how many logs you get from a tree, how long you have to wait before you can chop down the tree again. There is no natural rule that determines any of this, it’s all made up. Suppose ANet changed things so that one swing of an axe gave 100 ancient wood logs. What do you think would happen to the price?
For demand (where most people think they have a choice), players decide if they want to craft an item, but ANet decides how desirable the item is and the recipe for the item.
In real life, you need a certain amount of wood to build a picnic table. But that doesn’t apply here. There is no natural law that says that a lump of mithrilium requires 50 mithril ingots. There is no natural law that says 3 logs make a plank (for example, at one point ANet increased them to 4 for one type of plank only). There is no natural law that you need an exotic insignia to make an ascended item. There is no rule that says you have to discover 10 exotic items to level crafting from 475-500.
I don’t think players have nearly the impact on price that you think they do.
Well, the whole ‘natural rule’ thing is pretty obvious, since ANet created the game, and AI hasn’t developed enough for it to write its own rules.
However, there tends to be some constants when it comes to gathering in this game:
- You’re guaranteed at least 3 logs / ore per normal node as it is.
- The timer for Ancient Wood and Ori is set at 24 hours as it is.
- Each player can gather their own Ancient Wood / Ori Ore with the right tools and level. No player is excluded, barring an insufficiently leveled character, as it is.
Thus, if players can gather their own mats, but choose to buy them instead, then it’s natural that the value of them is going to depend on how much is available and how ‘valuable’ it is.
Like I said, Ancient Wood Logs used to be around 60c. With Ascended, that price jumped. If people weren’t buying it, and were gathering their own, then the value wouldn’t be so great since there’d be more supply, and not enough demand.
Obviously, I’m not taking into account human attributes such as impatience which is a factor in why the price increased.
Life is a journey.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
Time is a river.
The door is ajar.
@TooBz
what you say is entirely true but we have a huge problem here. What players are willing to pay makes no sense.
Lets take a corrupted lodestone for example. That costs around 80s it takes about an hour of farming to get a corrupted lodestone, I can earn 80s no problem doing other content I enjoy so since I dont enjoy farming it makes perfect sense to go play an hour of the content I enjoy and pay the 80s to get the lodestone easily.
However lets consider ancient wood logs which now at least they’re down to 8s from 15s, still way too much.
In 30 minutes you can get 4 alts to farm all ancient logs for a day easily. If you’re unlucky and dont get any extra drops due to WvW bonuses you’ll still get the minimum 144 logs. Players are asking 11.5g for that! Gathering ancient logs isnt particularly excited granted but is it worth 11g? NO! in 30 minutes I am going to make maybe 1g? if even! 11g isnt justified I am much better off gathering it myself.
The price being asked isnt even near reasonable yet some players are willing to pay it.
Anet control supply no doubt but that supply is worth 50s maybe 1g with the increased income. Players are paying 10x that for no reason! you only need 50 logs per day a single run is going to get you 3x that! there is really nothing forcing anyone to buy them but players still do, why? I honestly cant say!
The price jumped because ANet shifted the demand curve by introducing ascended gear.
At every price point there are a number of people who are willing to supply a good at that price (I’ll go and get the logs and sell them to make 15s) and people who are willing to buy them (I’ll but logs for 15s). As the price goes up, more people will supply them (I’ll go chop down a tree for 1g). And fewer people will buy them (that’s too expensive).
They meet at an equilibrium price, where the number of suppliers roughly equals the number of buyers.
This is where the supply and demand curve meet. However, ANet has a lot of influence over where those curves are.
For other reasons, it doens’t matter if someone goes and gets there own logs or not. If you value a log at 15s or more, then you will pay 15s for one. If you value a log at less than 15s you will sell the log you have rather than keep it.
What I think happened is that ANet created a HUGE money source with the Champion farming they introduced and consequently created a HUGE money sink to counterbalance. Will link to the forum post that is the smoking gun in a moment.
They problem is that if you didn’t do the money source, you’re kittened on the sink.
Found it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Economy-concerns/first#post2635292
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
(edited by TooBz.3065)
@TooBz
In 30 minutes you can get 4 alts to farm all ancient logs for a day easily. If you’re unlucky and dont get any extra drops due to WvW bonuses you’ll still get the minimum 144 logs. Players are asking 11.5g for that! Gathering ancient logs isnt particularly excited granted but is it worth 11g? NO! in 30 minutes I am going to make maybe 1g? if even! 11g isnt justified I am much better off gathering it myself.
I don’t disagree with you, but there is some food for thought. If we agree that chopping down wood logs isn’t very fun. Let’s call it work. If I’m going to do it, I’m going to want to be compensated, otherwise I won’t bother. So, for 30 minutes of doing tedious stuff I want 11g. 11 g will cost me about $4 in gems. So I’m doing something tedious and asking for $8 per hour to do it.
It probably doesn’t actually work this way. But I find people to seem less crazy if you think about this in terms of work. It probably works the other way. People who see the price of the logs and decide that they’d rather spend $4 in real money for the logs rather than spend 30 minutes swapping alts and whatever. Or (more likely) champion farm for the gold for 2 hours rather than spend 30 minutes chopping.
Anything I post is just the opinion of a very vocal minority of 1.
A 40th level fractal isn’t significantly different from a 20th level fractal. The bosses have more health. The agony resistence goes up. It’s the same thing.
I wouldn’t call a 40th level fractal different from a 20th level fractal as far as content goes. Someone can see all the fractals, each individual one, and experience the idea of it by staying under level 20, or even under level 10.
Content is same but the difficulty level is higher. It’s like a version of hard mode from gw1. And it is significant different because at higher levels you actually have to use the thing between your ears. Spamming autoattacks doesn’t work so well.
They just get more challenging. If you want to do that stuff, get the gear to do it. If it’s too much work, don’t do it. Simple as that.
I want to get a gear. The problem is it requires from me to spend some quality time with the most brainless and mind-numbing activities I have ever seen in whole game industry. Simple as that.
It doesn’t take as long as you’re pretending it does. And you know, I’ve done fractals in the 20s. The kind of content you want really really isn’t what this game was about.
Hey, I want to repeat the same stupid crap over and over again, because it’s harder. Well you know…this game was supposed to be about a living breathing world. It’s not a raiding environment and was never really meant to be.
Because of players like you Anet is adding harder content, but it’s not necessary harder INSTANCED content? Why? Because instances aren’t IN the living breathing world.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t want the game you want…but I can’t think of what part of the advertising convinced you that this would be that game.