Guild Wars 2

silvermember.8941:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

If I could transfer my Norn to GW1, I would NOT be here. And that is the solid truth.

That is like saying IF I could have played 10, 13, 14, 22, 52 and 11, I would have won the 600 million dollar powerball, unfortunately I did not, so it doesn’t matter.

.[/quote]

Here, let me type slower and louder for you. I’m playing GW2 at this point simply because I love my Norn characters.

So, hypothetically, if Norn were a playable race in GW1, there would be no reason for me to be here.

Conversely, if Norn had never been playable here, I would have never installed this. I bought after launch, and had real trepidation then.

It is an illustrative statement of just how thin the margin is that is keeping me here at all.

Unleashed.6195:

Banquetto.9521:

Unleashed.6195:

In every way that’s crucially important, GW1 was an MMO.

You don’t think it’s “crucially important” that an MMO should feature Massively-Multiplayer Online gameplay?

I kinda do, personally.

What’s your favourite MMO? Counterstrike is pretty cool, isn’t it?

As fun as it is to quip with extended acronyms, maybe you can get into specifics as to what qualifies for “massive” and in what context? I mean, I somehow doubt the words multiplayer and online are what bother you, as those are pretty black and white. It is online. It is multiplayer.

So… massive? Massive where? Dungeons you have 5 people. Group events I’ve seen 50-60 show up. ZvZ in WvW I’ve seen maybe 120 or so at once. The vast majority of content however you usually are seeing < 10 people at a time in GW2, and certainly less than 50, especially with culling in mind.

Um, you said that GW 1 was an MMO in every way that’s crucially important. If that was a typo and you meant to say GW 2, then of course I agree with you.

Massively-multiplayer means arbitrary numbers of players interacting. If it’s 4 players at a time, or 8, or even say 16v16 (like World of Tanks), it’s not massively multiplayer. It’s just multiplayer.

And personally, I only count the numbers in actual gameplay. Not in lobbies. That’s why GW2 is an MMO and GW1 was not.

Unleashed.6195:

I just don’t understand how some people react with “love it or leave it”, not thinking that perhaps improvements could be made to the game and make the current game, with its updated engine and improvements, even better than it is.

If they ported the graphics engine, different races and a few other small updates to GW1, and continue building expansions and new content for it afterwards I -would- go back. Seems it would be much easier to just make the changes here necessary to cover the most fundamental parts of what made GW1 great.

Not everything you think of as an improvement will be an improvement to everybody. I know a bunch of people who like Guild Wars 2 better than Guild Wars 1. It’s a mixed bag, though.

Some of the stuff that made Guild Wars 1 great also made it hard to balance, and hard to get into for new people. Anet made changes based on the feedback. It makes sense that Guild Wars 1 players wouldn’t like it, but you’re still not the majority of gamers.

As for Guild Wars 1 being or not being an MMO, the information comes directly from Anet. Anet said that Guild Wars 1 is a CoRPG not an MMO. So you can argue with them if you want.

Banquetto.9521:

Unleashed.6195:

Banquetto.9521:

Unleashed.6195:

In every way that’s crucially important, GW1 was an MMO.

You don’t think it’s “crucially important” that an MMO should feature Massively-Multiplayer Online gameplay?

I kinda do, personally.

What’s your favourite MMO? Counterstrike is pretty cool, isn’t it?

As fun as it is to quip with extended acronyms, maybe you can get into specifics as to what qualifies for “massive” and in what context? I mean, I somehow doubt the words multiplayer and online are what bother you, as those are pretty black and white. It is online. It is multiplayer.

So… massive? Massive where? Dungeons you have 5 people. Group events I’ve seen 50-60 show up. ZvZ in WvW I’ve seen maybe 120 or so at once. The vast majority of content however you usually are seeing < 10 people at a time in GW2, and certainly less than 50, especially with culling in mind.

Um, you said that GW 1 was an MMO in every way that’s crucially important. If that was a typo and you meant to say GW 2, then of course I agree with you.

Massively-multiplayer means arbitrary numbers of players interacting. If it’s 4 players at a time, or 8, or even say 16v16 (like World of Tanks), it’s not massively multiplayer. It’s just multiplayer.

And personally, I only count the numbers in actual gameplay. Not in lobbies. That’s why GW2 is an MMO and GW1 was not.

So, let me see if I get this right. When you are in LA, (lobby) and enter a Fractal (5man) you have effectively stopped playing an MMO? But then, if you zone to a Dragon with 40 people there, you have re-entered an MMO? Very confusing.

And, if you show up at maw, finish it with 12 people, tis not MMO, but if more show up, it is?

Honestly curious as to your definition. Massively Multiplayer was a bit of hype coined by Lord British for UO, not a strict definition. At the time, it was more of 1000s of people able to log into the same game at the same time, compared to the severely limited numbers of players able to enter a game prior to that and not a definition of raid size or “who is in this zone”. It was an amorphous definition at best then, and has hardly become more precise since.

Also curious as to what “interaction” is to you. If I am standing in a closed (100 players) district in Kamedan, as I was last night, buying, selling, people LFG, conversing.. that is not “interaction”? But.. 100 people standing in LA is? or is not?

Seriously folks, MMORPG was a marketing label to intro a different kind of game. Anet chose to invent CoRPG for GW1 as their marketing label. Arguing over the “strict” definitions of both is like arguing whether a “SUPER SIZE” softdrink is actually super, large, extra large or jumbo, and just as silly.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

So, let me see if I get this right. When you are in LA, (lobby) and enter a Fractal (5man) you have effectively stopped playing an MMO? But then, if you zone to a Dragon with 40 people there, you have re-entered an MMO? Very confusing.

Well, if you’re in a 5-man instance, then no, you personally are not engaged in massively multiplayer action at that moment in time.

But the game is an MMO if it features massively multiplayer action.

Obviously GW2 features various different styles of play. It has PvP and PvE. It has open world massively multiplayer action and it has instanced small-group multiplayer content.

You will find some ultra-hardline types who swear blind that a game is no MMO if it features any instanced small-group content whatsoever. Personally, though, I think that’s mostly just a troll angle designed to be able to say “WoW is not an MMO!”

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

And, if you show up at maw, finish it with 12 people, tis not MMO, but if more show up, it is?

Note that at no point did I talk about any actual numbers. I said that massively multiplayer action involved arbitrarily large numbers of players.

How many players is the Maw for? As many as show up. That’s what massively multiplayer is all about. Even if only three people show up in the middle of the night.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Also curious as to what “interaction” is to you. If I am standing in a closed (100 players) district in Kamedan, as I was last night, buying, selling, people LFG, conversing.. that is not “interaction”? But.. 100 people standing in LA is? or is not?

I don’t think either of those are gameplay. You can chat, arrange trade, look for groups, etc. in a lobby in Diablo 2. Doesn’t make it an MMO.

Note that in GW2, LA is not just a lobby. It has several jumping puzzles.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Seriously folks, MMORPG was a marketing label to intro a different kind of game. Anet chose to invent CoRPG for GW1 as their marketing label. Arguing over the “strict” definitions of both is like arguing whether a “SUPER SIZE” softdrink is actually super, large, extra large or jumbo, and just as silly.

I disagree. I think it’s a real term and has real meaning. As does CoRPG, for that matter. It distinguishes GW1 from single-player RPGs where you control a hero and some henchmen – e.g. the Baldur’s Gate games.

I think terms and meanings are important. And it really gets on my nerves that people often misuse the terms because they attach a value judgement to them.

e.g. I like MMOs. I like GW1. Therefore I will argue that GW1 is an MMO.

Or I like MMOs. I hate WoW. Therefore I will say that WoW is not an MMO because “nobody does anything except queue for dungeons and battlegrounds”.

Well, I love MMOs. And I loved GW1. It’s not an MMO, though.

good humor.
Thanks

for a bit there, I thought you were serious.

Unleashed.6195:

In every way that’s crucially important, GW1 was an MMO. Your character persisted. You could trade with other players with that persistent character and know that their character was persisted under the same rules as yours. You could see many players in a city and interact with them.

That merely makes it a Diablo-style game. There’s nothing MMO about GW1. The crucial, defining element of an MMO is the open world, which GW1 didn’t have. If that doesn’t matter, every online game is an MMO. Massive really is the key word.

And that’s what makes GW2 so cool. It’s GW1 made into an MMO. Sure, compromises have been made, but for te better overall. It’s the best MMO on the market.

You could stand and talk to a hundred people at a time in Guild Wars 1, but you couldn’t PLAY with a hundred people at one time.

It’s a lobby game, because all groups need to form in a lobby. MMOs aren’t lobby games because they have persistent worlds.

If you go into the world and PLAY (as opposed to standing around in an outpost where you can’t quest or do anything), you know exactly who you might run into, because they’re already in your party.

The devs haven’t only said Guild Wars 1 is a CoRPG, they’ve also said it’s not an MMO.

Why do you think you know more about Guild Wars 1 than the devs do?

Conversely, People have no more reason to think they know more about the term than Richard Garriot, who coined the Massively Multiplayer term to introduce the first game to allow more that a couple hundred to log in at the same time by increased support for modem connections. Simple marketing slogan, nothing more. Little to do with gameplay, lots to do with the improvements that allowed a huge leap in numbers able to log in at once.

And Anet was free to use whatever marketing label they chose to, and Im sure aiming at the Console pvp demographic inspired Co OP as a label more than any “definition” of MMO that differs according to whatever point a someone is trying to make.

Ask for solo content in a game, and the usual crowd will contend that MMO means “grouping”

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, odds are, its some sort of duck.

Common sense, people.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Conversely, People have no more reason to think they know more about the term than Richard Garriot, who coined the Massively Multiplayer term to introduce the first game to allow more that a couple hundred to log in at the same time by increased support for modem connections. Simple marketing slogan, nothing more. Little to do with gameplay, lots to do with the improvements that allowed a huge leap in numbers able to log in at once.

And Anet was free to use whatever marketing label they chose to, and Im sure aiming at the Console pvp demographic inspired Co OP as a label more than any “definition” of MMO that differs according to whatever point a someone is trying to make.

Ask for solo content in a game, and the usual crowd will contend that MMO means “grouping”

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, odds are, its some sort of duck.

Common sense, people.

Common sense would be to use what is commonly used. Over the years, it’s been generally accepted that MMOs have a persistent world. It’s been stated over and over again in more places than you can imagine. Like anything else, the language evolves.

To ignore the most commonly used definition (and it is most commonly used) is to invite misunderstanding.

That’s common sense to me.

@Vayne
Persistent world being? The fact that I can log out, log back in a year later and still have my char, gear, gold, bank and pack contents, GH, questlog etc etc and a world that exists even though I have exited it? A world that retains the changes I’ve made to it on my acct through WIK, WOC, HotN, etc? A world that I don’t enter through a central “lobby” but by map travel to “persistant” outposts and continents, and then enter instances that are “persistant” whether I am there or not?

You know, I can see somewhat of the Massive=Numbers in zone argument. Persistent..How is GW1 not Persistent?

Now, define persistent world in your universe. How is it different?

Generally accepted is not a hard, inarguable definition.

Commonly used is does not mean correct. At one time the word “irregardless” was commonly used.

It is generally accepted, here, that a chip is not a french fry, either. I am, however, perfectly fine with others calling a french fry a “chip”. By their parameters, it is. Not my place to flatly tell them they are wrong. I well respect anyone that chooses to call GW1 a “CoRPG” if they feel the need to, but I don’t people shouting that Im wrong to call it an MMO, as it fits the parameters of being one, by MY understanding of the term.

Grey areas are Grey.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Persistent world being? The fact that I can log out, log back in a year later and still have my char, gear, GH, questlog etc etc and a world that exists even though I have exited it? A world that retains the changes I’ve made to it on my acct through WIK, WOC, HotN, etc?

Now, define persistent world in your universe. How is it different?

Generally accepted is not a hard, inarguable definition.

It is generally accepted, here, that a chip is not a french fry, either.

I persistent world means that it persists..whether you’re there or not. When you leave a zone in Guild Wars 1 and log back into it, everything is reset…exactly what it was before you log in. It’s not persistent. It doesn’t continue. It’s an instance. The instance resets.

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Pretty straight forward I thought.

And even if persistent was the wrong word, pretty much everyone in the industry knows what we’re talking about when it’s used.

tolunart.2095:

Kreslin.6832:

tolunart.2095:

You can continue to transmute the armor onto new sets as you level or if you want to change the stats of the armor. You just need a supply of yellow stones (level 79 or lower) or silver crystals (level 80). Both are given out as rewards for dailies and map completion or can be bought from the gem store by exchanging a few gold for gems.

In other words, just like I’ve just toled, GW2 has many tricks which make playing in this game more complicating than it was in GW1.

It’s a completely different game. Computer technology changes and improves over time, so it’s common for sequels to games to be much different from the original. I go back and play older games now and then, if you look at Skyrim and compare it to Morrowind or earlier games in the series it hardly looks like they have anything in common. Even Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age II are very different games, despite being developed close together and having a similar look, the game interface is completely different and the stories are unrelated.

You didn’t get the point. Computer technology… did you listen what I said?

By saying “more complicating” I meant – more expansive and much more grinding.
In GW1 armors don’t have any stats. If you need stats, you can get them from the npc, which are pretty cheap. That’s all you need! Very simple, and not grinding. If you want another stats, you simply buy runes from the npc and add them to the armor replacing the old runes. Simple. Or you can buy the same armor and use different runes and you will have 2 armors with different stats. Simple.
In GW1 armors have the same quality. So you can buy the cheapest armor and you’re done. There aren’t more powerful armors than what you’re already have. The prestige armors are all about skin, nothing more.

In GW2, for getting the best armor set, you must grind. It much more harder to get top set in GW2 than it was in GW1.
In GW2 armors have stats. So if you want this armor have different stats, you have to do a lot of work, much more than in GW1. You have to grind another armor set, and than, you have to buy transmutation stones from the game store. And after that, you have to eliminate one of the armors, which were not easy to get.
And in GW2 we have rings, amulets, jewelry, which add you more extra work for getting the full top set.
Feel the difference?

In GW2, if you want use different builds in a decent level, you have to get armors and weapons for them. It means that you have a lot of work to do. Grind, grind, grind, grind, and grind. A lot of work to do, just for getting decent armor sets for different builds.
I don’t remember such a headache in GW1.

So I don’t see what I loved in GW1 in GW2 at all. Manifesto was lying.

You lost me at Manifesto. If you believe the marketing bs that’s your problem.

tolunart.2095:

You lost me at Manifesto. If you believe the marketing bs that’s your problem.

No. It’s your problem if you are trying to prove something. You don’t have any constructive arguments. All you have, is trying to prove that you are right, and people like me are not. But the truth is that you are fail. Instead of constrictive argument you post messages like this one. That is so hilarious.

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Persistent world being? The fact that I can log out, log back in a year later and still have my char, gear, GH, questlog etc etc and a world that exists even though I have exited it? A world that retains the changes I’ve made to it on my acct through WIK, WOC, HotN, etc?

Now, define persistent world in your universe. How is it different?

Generally accepted is not a hard, inarguable definition.

It is generally accepted, here, that a chip is not a french fry, either.

I persistent world means that it persists..whether you’re there or not. When you leave a zone in Guild Wars 1 and log back into it, everything is reset…exactly what it was before you log in. It’s not persistent. It doesn’t continue. It’s an instance. The instance resets.

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Pretty straight forward I thought.

And even if persistent was the wrong word, pretty much everyone in the industry knows what we’re talking about when it’s used.

You really, really cannot compromise one inch, can you. Not one. “Pretty Much everyone in the industry”. That’s as valid as “Bob, down at the gas station”

Gee, a lot of folks in the industry agree that GW1 contains enough elements of an MMO to be called one, or not, since the “definitions” are not absolute.. save for a few who demand being the last word on every issue.

See.. again, I’m not saying YOU have to call it an MMO. You can call it a Portable Albert Wafflebender, for all I care. Please, show the same consideration to others who see enough MMO in GW1 to call it one.

Kreslin.6832:

tolunart.2095:

You lost me at Manifesto. If you believe the marketing bs that’s your problem.

No. It’s your problem if you are trying to prove something. You don’t have any constructive arguments. All you have, is trying to prove that you are right, and people like me are not. But the truth is that you are fail. Instead of constrictive argument you post messages like this one. That is so hilarious.

I don’t have anything to prove. And you misunderstand the purpose of their so-called Manifesto, people have distorted the meaning of it so much that discussion about it is pointless. I refuse to engage in such discussions.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Persistent world being? The fact that I can log out, log back in a year later and still have my char, gear, GH, questlog etc etc and a world that exists even though I have exited it? A world that retains the changes I’ve made to it on my acct through WIK, WOC, HotN, etc?

Now, define persistent world in your universe. How is it different?

Generally accepted is not a hard, inarguable definition.

It is generally accepted, here, that a chip is not a french fry, either.

I persistent world means that it persists..whether you’re there or not. When you leave a zone in Guild Wars 1 and log back into it, everything is reset…exactly what it was before you log in. It’s not persistent. It doesn’t continue. It’s an instance. The instance resets.

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Pretty straight forward I thought.

And even if persistent was the wrong word, pretty much everyone in the industry knows what we’re talking about when it’s used.

You really, really cannot compromise one inch, can you. Not one. “Pretty Much everyone in the industry”. That’s as valid as “Bob, down at the gas station”

Gee, a lot of folks in the industry agree that GW1 contains enough elements of an MMO to be called one, or not, since the “definitions” are not absolute.. save for a few who demand being the last word on every issue.

See.. again, I’m not saying YOU have to call it an MMO. You can call it a Portable Albert Wafflebender, for all I care. Please, show the same consideration to others who see enough MMO in GW1 to call it one.

I don’t think there’s anything to give into here. I’ve been following this industry closely for many many years. Pretty much everyone in the industry means reviewers, game-makers…they’ve agreed on a definition.

Why can’t you?

From gw1 to gw2 is like from 360 to X1, 1 step forward and 10 backwards.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

I like to think I have given this game a fair shake. I have 8 level 80s, one 54. I’ve done the things I would do in other games. I’ve ignored what does not interest me, and that is becoming pretty much every update. Still, I log on everyday. I have hopes that someone will realize what a huge, nice world they have, and use it more. I have hope that someone realizes the lore, the world THEY created has untold stories far more compelling than Flying Steampunk Pirates, teen fad books, or Super NES. I think the character art, the art of the world is fantastic. Weapons and Armor.. not as much. Costumes, even less, given the limitations they have. I am beyond sick of DEs I’ve done 50 times, but have fun just roaming around the prettier areas doing mayhem on the local wildlife. So far the game is worth not giving up on.

I also find myself back in GW1 for several hours a day. I have fun there, just fun. No achievements, nothing I feel is forced upon me, no constant particle spam in town or out, its just relaxing. If I want to take a “daily” I do.. and can do it a week later if I feel like it. Always something to do, cause how I build my group determines how different I can make things. Rolling with an optimal hero group is very different than picking 5 melee and a couple monks. Dumb, but fun. Here I would be “not doing it right” and since I’m forced to pug with real players, be told I’m “not doing it right”. I’m not living in the past, I am having fun, in a fun game. With the exception of April Fools Terminator sillyness, I have yet to run into content in GW1 so out of place that it causes me to wonder “what the kitten were they thinking.”

Yes, it has less features than GW2. But.. I went to GW1 from Everquest2, with mounts, housing, ingame voip, mail, player vendors, crafting, etc etc, lots more MMO bling. But GW1 gameplay was worth losing that bling, and I played it and kept going back to it.

And I guess thats my downfall here. I guess I expected GW1 on steriods, GW1 with big MMO “bling”, I expected what I loved from GW1 would be here.. on a grander scale. I expected more of the options I had in a lot older MMOs.. a lot of graphical settings, options, saved templates for those options, ingame VOIP, more freedom with my UI, particle settings, so many of the things that are commonplace in much older games. I did not expect that most of the magic of GW1 would be tossed away and not replaced by anything comparable. I did WIK 14 times, and I’ve yet to find a story in GW2 I want to suffer through more than once.

I think, had I never played GW1, I would be more ok with this game. I still would not like the one size fits all options choices, or their insistence that I see their particle lightshows at full power, and I wouldnt like minigames, pop culture instances, platforming, all things I just never expected to become the main thrust of the game at times. I am a product of my expectations, and because of them, I am not nearly as happy with this game as I am with GW1.

The only thing that might make this post more awesome would be if Morgan Freeman narrated it.

Nuka Cola.8520:

From gw1 to gw2 is like from 360 to X1, 1 step forward and 10 backwards.

Maybe you’re just facing the wrong direction.

Vayne.8563:

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Endlessly recycling events in GW2 produce the same effect as zones resetting in GW1: despite all your efforts to the contrary, nothing has really changed.

Tachenon.5270:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Endlessly recycling events in GW2 produce the same effect as zones resetting in GW1: despite all your efforts to the contrary, nothing has really changed.

This is completely untrue. When I walk out a gate in Guild Wars 1 I know exactly where every creature will be…where they’ll spawn…where they’ll drop. The closest thing to random I can find in Guild Wars 1 is the rotating bosses in some zones, which if you’re looking to cap an elite is merely annoying.

In Guild Wars 2, I don’t always know what I’ll find when I walk out a gate. An event may spawn, it may not spawn. In fact, in Guild Wars 1, once you finish your quests, you pretty much just have mobs in zones, and maybe an occasional repeatable quest. But you don’t anything else but mobs all standing in exactly the same spot.

Cyclic events aren’t the same as static events, or even no events.

Just the fact that an event can scale up changes it dramatically. There’s no reason for events to scale in Guild Wars 2, because the game knows exactly how many people you’re taking. You can take less or more, but the event never changes.

There are times, due to spawning or even overlapping events that some interesting results have occurred. That just doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 1.

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

From gw1 to gw2 is like from 360 to X1, 1 step forward and 10 backwards.

Maybe you’re just facing the wrong direction.

Now if only that was true. Read comments in this and many other threads, lots of people are displeased with anet patches, you’re in the minority who enjoys them. This is just a forum and probably only 5-10% of the whole gw2 population but its on forums you find people who’ve supported gw1 for almost a decade, so if i was them i’d listen and stop with these jumping puzzles crap.

I really get bitter when people consider GW1 not a Mass Multiplayer Online (MMO) or Roll Playing Game (RPG)

Yes, it was effectively consider a Competitive RPG (CoRPG) during the Initial Light off (ILO) of the game. But as the fan base increased ArenaNet saw a different interest from their increased number of fans; this was Player versus Environment (PvE). Players took a liking to the way the story was told, the way dungeons were designed, etc.

I know the context of an MMO has strewed from its original meaning (Multi Player game that can support many players simultaneously online), but it is in-fact an MMO+RPG.

And Vayne, ArenaNet had actually made a point about this the turn from being designed as a CoRPG and turning into a MMORPG type game due to the fanbase interest.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

From gw1 to gw2 is like from 360 to X1, 1 step forward and 10 backwards.

Maybe you’re just facing the wrong direction.

Now if only that was true. Read comments in this and many other threads, lots of people are displeased with anet patches, you’re in the minority who enjoys them. This is just a forum and probably only 5-10% of the whole gw2 population but its on forums you find people who’ve supported gw1 for almost a decade, so if i was them i’d listen and stop with these jumping puzzles crap.

Nope, I’m not the minority. You’re making an assumption because more people complain…but it’s still only a tiny tiny percentage of the player base. And in this it’s like every other forum for every other MMORPG. Nothing but complaints. It’s meaningless.

As for the people who supported Guild Wars 2 for a decade, I still see a whole lot of GWAMM titles running around when I play. Maybe your numbers are wrong.

Either way, you can only guess or assume you’re in the majority. I certainly don’t think you are.

To clarify the “persistent world” expression
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistent_world

To the OP’s grief;

I have made this complain, many others have made this complain, and you are as well. Unfortunately life keeps going forward and change is inevitable. Guild Wars 1 was in fact a niche MMO in its time and still is. I am glad I was able to experience the unique world ArenaNet designed with the rest of the fellow GW1 enthusiast. It was a blast and truly was my favorite experience in any game. That will never be taken away.

As much as I followed GW2 and expected this game to be GW1 times 1000, it wasn’t and I had to deal with that fact. The truth is, each game whether made by the same maker or not, will create its own unique fanbase and choose it’s own destiny. GW1 cannot do that for GW2, and neither can our complaints about the lack of “GW1” embedded into this game.

You are also not alone in seeing the “Free to play, but pay to get passed the annoyances of the game” idea that seems to be set in place. I’ve said this before but with the explosion of tablets, social networking games, the current market thrives off fast paced, mini type games that includes paid RNG content.

Many players like the mini games, Jumping Puzzles, and new additions to those two every two weeks. Lots of festivals and shiny skins for their liking. As much as I wish to see the “old school” system of hardcore niche updates tailored for us, I do not see it happening on the scale you are seeing of the current updates.

Definitely glad to see you spoke your peace though, it’s a right we all should have whether right or wrong

Give it time, I believe the pendulum always makes its return. Too much of one thing will turn the tides the other way.

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

From gw1 to gw2 is like from 360 to X1, 1 step forward and 10 backwards.

Maybe you’re just facing the wrong direction.

Now if only that was true. Read comments in this and many other threads, lots of people are displeased with anet patches, you’re in the minority who enjoys them. This is just a forum and probably only 5-10% of the whole gw2 population but its on forums you find people who’ve supported gw1 for almost a decade, so if i was them i’d listen and stop with these jumping puzzles crap.

Nope, I’m not the minority. You’re making an assumption because more people complain…but it’s still only a tiny tiny percentage of the player base. And in this it’s like every other forum for every other MMORPG. Nothing but complaints. It’s meaningless.

As for the people who supported Guild Wars 2 for a decade, I still see a whole lot of GWAMM titles running around when I play. Maybe your numbers are wrong.

Either way, you can only guess or assume you’re in the majority. I certainly don’t think you are.

Yes, there’s enough SWAMM left, people have patience, i have patience and still playing gw2 daily even tho i haven’t enjoyed anything after Fractal patch. You may not want to accept it but you’re the minority who enjoys their latest content. I don’t even need to be on this forum to see tones of people laugh at their mini games that are fun for 2 minutes and you never step your foot back in them. In game you’ll see that a lot in LA (but let me guess, they’re all trolls because they don’t appreciate what you do…), on jtv streams most people when asked if they enjoy what anet’s adding just LOL… I mean, its not one, five, ten or a hundred of people complaining, its tones.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Yes, there’s enough SWAMM left, people have patience, i have patience and still playing gw2 daily even tho i haven’t enjoyed anything after Fractal patch. You may not want to accept it but you’re the minority who enjoys their latest content. I don’t even need to be on this forum to see tones of people laugh at their mini games that are fun for 2 minutes and you never step your foot back in them. In game you’ll see that a lot in LA (but let me guess, they’re all trolls because they don’t appreciate what you do…), on jtv streams most people when asked if they enjoy what anet’s adding just LOL… I mean its not one five ten or a hundred of people complaining, its tones.

How exactly do you conclude that only the minority enjoys the new content? I’m curious to see all your data and extensive research materials, until then you are talking nonsense.

maddoctor.2738:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Yes, there’s enough SWAMM left, people have patience, i have patience and still playing gw2 daily even tho i haven’t enjoyed anything after Fractal patch. You may not want to accept it but you’re the minority who enjoys their latest content. I don’t even need to be on this forum to see tones of people laugh at their mini games that are fun for 2 minutes and you never step your foot back in them. In game you’ll see that a lot in LA (but let me guess, they’re all trolls because they don’t appreciate what you do…), on jtv streams most people when asked if they enjoy what anet’s adding just LOL… I mean its not one five ten or a hundred of people complaining, its tones.

How exactly do you conclude that only the minority enjoys the new content? I’m curious to see all your data and extensive research materials, until then you are talking nonsense.

Hmmm lets see. ALL mini dungeons they’ve added were deserted hours/a day or two after release. all latest mini games become deserted in couple of days and if you do find some people its always the same ones like Vayne who ‘enjoys’ this kind of content. As another poster said, anet is deleting them probably because they know their ‘mini content’ becomes irrevelant in a matter of days.

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Endlessly recycling events in GW2 produce the same effect as zones resetting in GW1: despite all your efforts to the contrary, nothing has really changed.

This is completely untrue. When I walk out a gate in Guild Wars 1 I know exactly where every creature will be…where they’ll spawn…where they’ll drop. The closest thing to random I can find in Guild Wars 1 is the rotating bosses in some zones, which if you’re looking to cap an elite is merely annoying.

In Guild Wars 2, I don’t always know what I’ll find when I walk out a gate. An event may spawn, it may not spawn. In fact, in Guild Wars 1, once you finish your quests, you pretty much just have mobs in zones, and maybe an occasional repeatable quest. But you don’t anything else but mobs all standing in exactly the same spot.

Cyclic events aren’t the same as static events, or even no events.

Just the fact that an event can scale up changes it dramatically. There’s no reason for events to scale in Guild Wars 2, because the game knows exactly how many people you’re taking. You can take less or more, but the event never changes.

There are times, due to spawning or even overlapping events that some interesting results have occurred. That just doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 1.

Vayne, Please… Mobs just standing in one spot? Guess you never did DOA/UW did you. Or half the game, obviously. Mobs in GW1 patrol a LOT bigger areas, Particularly in NF and EoTN. Just stop already. There is no reason to state an outright exaggeration to prove whatever point you think you are proving. It only weakens that point.

I’m a legendary Vanquisher, are you? Must have been so easy for you, knowing EXACTLY where every mob “just standing there” would be. How much GW1 did you actually play? How can you even make such claims?

And GW2? again, come on, Please.. Daily Kill variety quests I run directly to the spots I know mobs will be. Other dailies I run directly to the mobs I need, for what I need, and so does everyone else. It never varies, ever, except to wait for respawn. If anything, big patrol pattern mobs are RARER in GW2 than GW1. I know where DE mobs will spawn, how many, and what will, during the DE cycle. Every player who does Maw, Dragons, every Meta also knows what will spawn, when it will spawn, and where it will spawn. Jeez.. Random, GW2 is not, and any player who does dailies knows this.

There are enough legitimate differences, pros and cons, both sides, to debate a preference for either game. You really don’t need to manufacture a post like this.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Conversely, People have no more reason to think they know more about the term than Richard Garriot, who coined the Massively Multiplayer term to introduce the first game to allow more that a couple hundred to log in at the same time by increased support for modem connections. Simple marketing slogan, nothing more. Little to do with gameplay, lots to do with the improvements that allowed a huge leap in numbers able to log in at once.

And Anet was free to use whatever marketing label they chose to, and Im sure aiming at the Console pvp demographic inspired Co OP as a label more than any “definition” of MMO that differs according to whatever point a someone is trying to make.

Ask for solo content in a game, and the usual crowd will contend that MMO means “grouping”

You haven’t been playing GW2 much have you?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, odds are, its some sort of duck.

Common sense, people.

Common sense says it might be geese too. MMO is very clear term indicating an open persistent world which GW1 does not have. If it stand on 4 hooves and makes the sound of a horse, chances are it’s probably not a duck.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Endlessly recycling events in GW2 produce the same effect as zones resetting in GW1: despite all your efforts to the contrary, nothing has really changed.

This is completely untrue. When I walk out a gate in Guild Wars 1 I know exactly where every creature will be…where they’ll spawn…where they’ll drop. The closest thing to random I can find in Guild Wars 1 is the rotating bosses in some zones, which if you’re looking to cap an elite is merely annoying.

In Guild Wars 2, I don’t always know what I’ll find when I walk out a gate. An event may spawn, it may not spawn. In fact, in Guild Wars 1, once you finish your quests, you pretty much just have mobs in zones, and maybe an occasional repeatable quest. But you don’t anything else but mobs all standing in exactly the same spot.

Cyclic events aren’t the same as static events, or even no events.

Just the fact that an event can scale up changes it dramatically. There’s no reason for events to scale in Guild Wars 2, because the game knows exactly how many people you’re taking. You can take less or more, but the event never changes.

There are times, due to spawning or even overlapping events that some interesting results have occurred. That just doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 1.

Vayne, Please… Mobs just standing in one spot? Guess you never did DOA/UW did you. Or half the game, obviously. Mobs in GW1 patrol a LOT bigger areas, Particularly in NF and EoTN. Just stop already. There is no reason to state an outright exaggeration to prove whatever point you think you are proving. It only weakens that point.

I’m a legendary Vanquisher, are you? Must have been so easy for you, knowing EXACTLY where every mob “just standing there” would be. How much GW1 did you actually play? How can you even make such claims?

And GW2? again, come on, Please.. Daily Kill variety quests I run directly to the spots I know mobs will be. Other dailies I run directly to the mobs I need, for what I need, and so does everyone else. It never varies, ever, except to wait for respawn. If anything, big patrol pattern mobs are RARER in GW2 than GW1. I know where DE mobs will spawn, how many, where and when. Every player who does Maw, Dragons, every Meta also knows what will spawn, when it will spawn, and where it will spawn. Jeez.. Random, GW2 is not, and any player who does dailies knows this.

There are enough legitimate differences, pros and cons, both sides, to debate a preference for either game. You really don’t need to manufacture a post like this.

He said he played gw1 for 5 and half years and he didn’t liked dungeons nor pvp lol he played for over half a decade ignoring the best parts of the game. I wonder, what exactly a person that logs in for so long could be doing? Probably lying to prove his points…

Nuka Cola.8520:

maddoctor.2738:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Yes, there’s enough SWAMM left, people have patience, i have patience and still playing gw2 daily even tho i haven’t enjoyed anything after Fractal patch. You may not want to accept it but you’re the minority who enjoys their latest content. I don’t even need to be on this forum to see tones of people laugh at their mini games that are fun for 2 minutes and you never step your foot back in them. In game you’ll see that a lot in LA (but let me guess, they’re all trolls because they don’t appreciate what you do…), on jtv streams most people when asked if they enjoy what anet’s adding just LOL… I mean its not one five ten or a hundred of people complaining, its tones.

How exactly do you conclude that only the minority enjoys the new content? I’m curious to see all your data and extensive research materials, until then you are talking nonsense.

Hmmm lets see. ALL mini dungeons they’ve added were deserted hours/a day or two after release. all latest mini games become deserted in couple of days and if you do find some people its always the same ones like Vayne who ‘enjoys’ this kind of content. As another poster said, anet is deleting them probably because they know their ‘mini content’ becomes irrevelant in a matter of days.

Mini dungeons are still active last I checked, not as much as CoF P1 but they are still done. Adding new Living Story achievements in those makes them more viable as well. Last I checked they are not instances, nor do they require a group, it would’ve been strange if they were full of people 24/7, btw are you camping out of all minidungeons to see if they are 24/7 deserted on all servers?

As for minigames Sanctum Sprint is still alive and well, loads of people are still trying it. Dragon Arena was active even during the latest days of the Dragon Bash so again I don’t know what you are talking about and you have absolutely no evidence to back your claims.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

From gw1 to gw2 is like from 360 to X1, 1 step forward and 10 backwards.

Maybe you’re just facing the wrong direction.

Now if only that was true. Read comments in this and many other threads, lots of people are displeased with anet patches, you’re in the minority who enjoys them. This is just a forum and probably only 5-10% of the whole gw2 population but its on forums you find people who’ve supported gw1 for almost a decade, so if i was them i’d listen and stop with these jumping puzzles crap.

Nope, I’m not the minority. You’re making an assumption because more people complain…but it’s still only a tiny tiny percentage of the player base. And in this it’s like every other forum for every other MMORPG. Nothing but complaints. It’s meaningless.

As for the people who supported Guild Wars 2 for a decade, I still see a whole lot of GWAMM titles running around when I play. Maybe your numbers are wrong.

Either way, you can only guess or assume you’re in the majority. I certainly don’t think you are.

Yes, there’s enough SWAMM left, people have patience, i have patience and still playing gw2 daily even tho i haven’t enjoyed anything after Fractal patch. You may not want to accept it but you’re the minority who enjoys their latest content. I don’t even need to be on this forum to see tones of people laugh at their mini games that are fun for 2 minutes and you never step your foot back in them. In game you’ll see that a lot in LA (but let me guess, they’re all trolls because they don’t appreciate what you do…), on jtv streams most people when asked if they enjoy what anet’s adding just LOL… I mean, its not one, five, ten or a hundred of people complaining, its tones.

Why in the wide wide world of holy kitten why are you playing a game daily that you do not enjoy the content of?

What the kitten seriously.

From now on you are known as “opinions invalid man”.

marnick.4305:

You haven’t been playing GW2 much have you?

2973 hours over 8 months. 8 level 80s. You?

10475 hours in GW1 over 61 months.

I’m retired and disabled. I was disinterested in the remainder of your post, so I snipped it, Sorry

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Endlessly recycling events in GW2 produce the same effect as zones resetting in GW1: despite all your efforts to the contrary, nothing has really changed.

This is completely untrue. When I walk out a gate in Guild Wars 1 I know exactly where every creature will be…where they’ll spawn…where they’ll drop. The closest thing to random I can find in Guild Wars 1 is the rotating bosses in some zones, which if you’re looking to cap an elite is merely annoying.

In Guild Wars 2, I don’t always know what I’ll find when I walk out a gate. An event may spawn, it may not spawn. In fact, in Guild Wars 1, once you finish your quests, you pretty much just have mobs in zones, and maybe an occasional repeatable quest. But you don’t anything else but mobs all standing in exactly the same spot.

Cyclic events aren’t the same as static events, or even no events.

Just the fact that an event can scale up changes it dramatically. There’s no reason for events to scale in Guild Wars 2, because the game knows exactly how many people you’re taking. You can take less or more, but the event never changes.

There are times, due to spawning or even overlapping events that some interesting results have occurred. That just doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 1.

Watch the ledges.
You’ll never catch them if they reach the water.
Treasure… devour…
There’s something in the water.
Just don’t ask me if anything lives down there.
Search the water for castaways. Some are likely injured and will need help getting back to shore.
Prove the sun shines through you. Face me in another form!
Look at this place. Titans, gods, dragons. They’re all the same. All they know is destruction.
You’ll never block me like that.
I need more grubs before I can fish.
Ale, ale, ale! Ale makes me happy! Ale makes me sing! Ale makes me love everything!

maddoctor.2738:

Nuka Cola.8520:

maddoctor.2738:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Yes, there’s enough SWAMM left, people have patience, i have patience and still playing gw2 daily even tho i haven’t enjoyed anything after Fractal patch. You may not want to accept it but you’re the minority who enjoys their latest content. I don’t even need to be on this forum to see tones of people laugh at their mini games that are fun for 2 minutes and you never step your foot back in them. In game you’ll see that a lot in LA (but let me guess, they’re all trolls because they don’t appreciate what you do…), on jtv streams most people when asked if they enjoy what anet’s adding just LOL… I mean its not one five ten or a hundred of people complaining, its tones.

How exactly do you conclude that only the minority enjoys the new content? I’m curious to see all your data and extensive research materials, until then you are talking nonsense.

Hmmm lets see. ALL mini dungeons they’ve added were deserted hours/a day or two after release. all latest mini games become deserted in couple of days and if you do find some people its always the same ones like Vayne who ‘enjoys’ this kind of content. As another poster said, anet is deleting them probably because they know their ‘mini content’ becomes irrevelant in a matter of days.

Mini dungeons are still active last I checked, not as much as CoF P1 but they are still done. Adding new Living Story achievements in those makes them more viable as well. Last I checked they are not instances, nor do they require a group, it would’ve been strange if they were full of people 24/7, btw are you camping out of all minidungeons to see if they are 24/7 deserted on all servers?

As for minigames Sanctum Sprint is still alive and well, loads of people are still trying it. Dragon Arena was active even during the latest days of the Dragon Bash so again I don’t know what you are talking about and you have absolutely no evidence to back your claims.

Absolutely agree with Sanctum Spirit but mini dungeons being full is just false. Two or three days after their release you were almost in need of switching servers if you wanted to pug (and no, im not on a small server with 8 people in it). This what happens when you release a dungeon with enemies that take half an hour to spam your autos on and with none existent reward at the end. No matter how amazing your dungeon is, if there’s not goal (as were armor/weapon skins in all 8 dungeons the first couple of month when they felt special) no one will be doing it after a couple of days if not hours.

CobaltSixty.1542:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Vayne.8563:

Nuka Cola.8520:

From gw1 to gw2 is like from 360 to X1, 1 step forward and 10 backwards.

Maybe you’re just facing the wrong direction.

Now if only that was true. Read comments in this and many other threads, lots of people are displeased with anet patches, you’re in the minority who enjoys them. This is just a forum and probably only 5-10% of the whole gw2 population but its on forums you find people who’ve supported gw1 for almost a decade, so if i was them i’d listen and stop with these jumping puzzles crap.

Nope, I’m not the minority. You’re making an assumption because more people complain…but it’s still only a tiny tiny percentage of the player base. And in this it’s like every other forum for every other MMORPG. Nothing but complaints. It’s meaningless.

As for the people who supported Guild Wars 2 for a decade, I still see a whole lot of GWAMM titles running around when I play. Maybe your numbers are wrong.

Either way, you can only guess or assume you’re in the majority. I certainly don’t think you are.

Yes, there’s enough SWAMM left, people have patience, i have patience and still playing gw2 daily even tho i haven’t enjoyed anything after Fractal patch. You may not want to accept it but you’re the minority who enjoys their latest content. I don’t even need to be on this forum to see tones of people laugh at their mini games that are fun for 2 minutes and you never step your foot back in them. In game you’ll see that a lot in LA (but let me guess, they’re all trolls because they don’t appreciate what you do…), on jtv streams most people when asked if they enjoy what anet’s adding just LOL… I mean, its not one, five, ten or a hundred of people complaining, its tones.

Why in the wide wide world of holy kitten why are you playing a game daily that you do not enjoy the content of?

What the kitten seriously.

From now on you are known as “opinions invalid man”.

WvW and some fractals now n then keeps me going. And since you asked, i don’t have anything really im interested in, just waiting for dat ps4

That is why they add temporary content so people are doing it while it lasts because they know that people are only after achievement points or money.
I think if we had 100 permanent mini/maxi-games the player base will be segregated.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Endlessly recycling events in GW2 produce the same effect as zones resetting in GW1: despite all your efforts to the contrary, nothing has really changed.

This is completely untrue. When I walk out a gate in Guild Wars 1 I know exactly where every creature will be…where they’ll spawn…where they’ll drop. The closest thing to random I can find in Guild Wars 1 is the rotating bosses in some zones, which if you’re looking to cap an elite is merely annoying.

In Guild Wars 2, I don’t always know what I’ll find when I walk out a gate. An event may spawn, it may not spawn. In fact, in Guild Wars 1, once you finish your quests, you pretty much just have mobs in zones, and maybe an occasional repeatable quest. But you don’t anything else but mobs all standing in exactly the same spot.

Cyclic events aren’t the same as static events, or even no events.

Just the fact that an event can scale up changes it dramatically. There’s no reason for events to scale in Guild Wars 2, because the game knows exactly how many people you’re taking. You can take less or more, but the event never changes.

There are times, due to spawning or even overlapping events that some interesting results have occurred. That just doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 1.

Vayne, Please… Mobs just standing in one spot? Guess you never did DOA/UW did you. Or half the game, obviously. Mobs in GW1 patrol a LOT bigger areas, Particularly in NF and EoTN. Just stop already. There is no reason to state an outright exaggeration to prove whatever point you think you are proving. It only weakens that point.

I’m a legendary Vanquisher, are you? Must have been so easy for you, knowing EXACTLY where every mob “just standing there” would be. How much GW1 did you actually play? How can you even make such claims?

And GW2? again, come on, Please.. Daily Kill variety quests I run directly to the spots I know mobs will be. Other dailies I run directly to the mobs I need, for what I need, and so does everyone else. It never varies, ever, except to wait for respawn. If anything, big patrol pattern mobs are RARER in GW2 than GW1. I know where DE mobs will spawn, how many, where and when. Every player who does Maw, Dragons, every Meta also knows what will spawn, when it will spawn, and where it will spawn. Jeez.. Random, GW2 is not, and any player who does dailies knows this.

There are enough legitimate differences, pros and cons, both sides, to debate a preference for either game. You really don’t need to manufacture a post like this.

He said he played gw1 for 5 and half years and he didn’t liked dungeons nor pvp lol he played for over half a decade ignoring the best parts of the game. I wonder, what exactly a person that logs in for so long could be doing? Probably lying to prove his points…

He could be honest. I played PVP sporadically, and hardly did dungeons except for the achievements. There was a lot to do in that game, and that could mean me and vayne disagree on the best part. For me it was mostly about title hunting which meant basically anything but dungeons and pvp No lying required, although it shows how dishonest you just are.

marnick.4305:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Endlessly recycling events in GW2 produce the same effect as zones resetting in GW1: despite all your efforts to the contrary, nothing has really changed.

This is completely untrue. When I walk out a gate in Guild Wars 1 I know exactly where every creature will be…where they’ll spawn…where they’ll drop. The closest thing to random I can find in Guild Wars 1 is the rotating bosses in some zones, which if you’re looking to cap an elite is merely annoying.

In Guild Wars 2, I don’t always know what I’ll find when I walk out a gate. An event may spawn, it may not spawn. In fact, in Guild Wars 1, once you finish your quests, you pretty much just have mobs in zones, and maybe an occasional repeatable quest. But you don’t anything else but mobs all standing in exactly the same spot.

Cyclic events aren’t the same as static events, or even no events.

Just the fact that an event can scale up changes it dramatically. There’s no reason for events to scale in Guild Wars 2, because the game knows exactly how many people you’re taking. You can take less or more, but the event never changes.

There are times, due to spawning or even overlapping events that some interesting results have occurred. That just doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 1.

Vayne, Please… Mobs just standing in one spot? Guess you never did DOA/UW did you. Or half the game, obviously. Mobs in GW1 patrol a LOT bigger areas, Particularly in NF and EoTN. Just stop already. There is no reason to state an outright exaggeration to prove whatever point you think you are proving. It only weakens that point.

I’m a legendary Vanquisher, are you? Must have been so easy for you, knowing EXACTLY where every mob “just standing there” would be. How much GW1 did you actually play? How can you even make such claims?

And GW2? again, come on, Please.. Daily Kill variety quests I run directly to the spots I know mobs will be. Other dailies I run directly to the mobs I need, for what I need, and so does everyone else. It never varies, ever, except to wait for respawn. If anything, big patrol pattern mobs are RARER in GW2 than GW1. I know where DE mobs will spawn, how many, where and when. Every player who does Maw, Dragons, every Meta also knows what will spawn, when it will spawn, and where it will spawn. Jeez.. Random, GW2 is not, and any player who does dailies knows this.

There are enough legitimate differences, pros and cons, both sides, to debate a preference for either game. You really don’t need to manufacture a post like this.

He said he played gw1 for 5 and half years and he didn’t liked dungeons nor pvp lol he played for over half a decade ignoring the best parts of the game. I wonder, what exactly a person that logs in for so long could be doing? Probably lying to prove his points…

He could be honest. I played PVP sporadically, and hardly did dungeons except for the achievements. There was a lot to do in that game, and that could mean me and vayne disagree on the best part. For me it was mostly about title hunting which meant basically anything but dungeons and pvp No lying required, although it shows how dishonest you just are.

Sounds fair but title hunting for five and a half years? I mean if you were playing casually 1h per week then sure but if you were ‘playing’ the game, it wouldn’t take you anywhere near to get GWAMM (if that’s what you were aiming for). its your play style liking maxing titles and that’s fine but i just cannot believe when some1 tells me he didn’t like dungeons/pvp in gw1, it was glorious!!!

marnick.4305:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Conversely, People have no more reason to think they know more about the term than Richard Garriot, who coined the Massively Multiplayer term to introduce the first game to allow more that a couple hundred to log in at the same time by increased support for modem connections. Simple marketing slogan, nothing more. Little to do with gameplay, lots to do with the improvements that allowed a huge leap in numbers able to log in at once.

And Anet was free to use whatever marketing label they chose to, and Im sure aiming at the Console pvp demographic inspired Co OP as a label more than any “definition” of MMO that differs according to whatever point a someone is trying to make.

Ask for solo content in a game, and the usual crowd will contend that MMO means “grouping”

You haven’t been playing GW2 much have you?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, odds are, its some sort of duck.

Common sense, people.

Common sense says it might be geese too. MMO is very clear term indicating an open persistent world which GW1 does not have. If it stand on 4 hooves and makes the sound of a horse, chances are it’s probably not a duck.

Again, MMO taken out of context. Maybe I shall break the entire phrase down.

Mass

• A considerable quantity, number, aggregation of something (In this case people)

Multiplayer

• A mode of play involving more than one player/person at any particular time in a computer or virtual experience/game (This is where the coined term gets taken out of context, possibly without even realizing. This definition can be interpreted one of two ways, the first being, multiple players at any given time within the game itself such as person A. in Ascalon doing whatever, and person B. in Kryta doing whatever. Or the second interpretation where multiple players can be at any given location at any time. This is where GW1 gets put out of the MMO genre by some. Because zones are instanced, and can only be “Multiplayer” when grouped before entering the zone." However, there are multiple ways to communicate with other online players regardless of zone, designated locations where any given player can be. )

Online

• Connected by computer device to one or more other computers/networks. Typically through a commercial information service or the “Internet”.

Again, taken out of context. Everyone is right, but like I stated first, ArenaNet made a statement regarding what genre GW1 fell in, which was in fact “MMO RPG”. It was designed and originally planned for PvP arena type game play; i.e, CoRPG)

Not sure where the word “Persistent” resides in any of those terms, or defines those terms. Because it doesn’t.

Nuka Cola.8520:

marnick.4305:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Endlessly recycling events in GW2 produce the same effect as zones resetting in GW1: despite all your efforts to the contrary, nothing has really changed.

This is completely untrue. When I walk out a gate in Guild Wars 1 I know exactly where every creature will be…where they’ll spawn…where they’ll drop. The closest thing to random I can find in Guild Wars 1 is the rotating bosses in some zones, which if you’re looking to cap an elite is merely annoying.

In Guild Wars 2, I don’t always know what I’ll find when I walk out a gate. An event may spawn, it may not spawn. In fact, in Guild Wars 1, once you finish your quests, you pretty much just have mobs in zones, and maybe an occasional repeatable quest. But you don’t anything else but mobs all standing in exactly the same spot.

Cyclic events aren’t the same as static events, or even no events.

Just the fact that an event can scale up changes it dramatically. There’s no reason for events to scale in Guild Wars 2, because the game knows exactly how many people you’re taking. You can take less or more, but the event never changes.

There are times, due to spawning or even overlapping events that some interesting results have occurred. That just doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 1.

Vayne, Please… Mobs just standing in one spot? Guess you never did DOA/UW did you. Or half the game, obviously. Mobs in GW1 patrol a LOT bigger areas, Particularly in NF and EoTN. Just stop already. There is no reason to state an outright exaggeration to prove whatever point you think you are proving. It only weakens that point.

I’m a legendary Vanquisher, are you? Must have been so easy for you, knowing EXACTLY where every mob “just standing there” would be. How much GW1 did you actually play? How can you even make such claims?

And GW2? again, come on, Please.. Daily Kill variety quests I run directly to the spots I know mobs will be. Other dailies I run directly to the mobs I need, for what I need, and so does everyone else. It never varies, ever, except to wait for respawn. If anything, big patrol pattern mobs are RARER in GW2 than GW1. I know where DE mobs will spawn, how many, where and when. Every player who does Maw, Dragons, every Meta also knows what will spawn, when it will spawn, and where it will spawn. Jeez.. Random, GW2 is not, and any player who does dailies knows this.

There are enough legitimate differences, pros and cons, both sides, to debate a preference for either game. You really don’t need to manufacture a post like this.

He said he played gw1 for 5 and half years and he didn’t liked dungeons nor pvp lol he played for over half a decade ignoring the best parts of the game. I wonder, what exactly a person that logs in for so long could be doing? Probably lying to prove his points…

He could be honest. I played PVP sporadically, and hardly did dungeons except for the achievements. There was a lot to do in that game, and that could mean me and vayne disagree on the best part. For me it was mostly about title hunting which meant basically anything but dungeons and pvp No lying required, although it shows how dishonest you just are.

Sounds fair but title hunting for five and a half years? I mean if you were playing casually 1h per week then sure but if you were ‘playing’ the game, it wouldn’t take you anywhere near to get GWAMM (if that’s what you were aiming for). its your play style liking maxing titles and that’s fine but i just cannot believe when some1 tells me he didn’t like dungeons/pvp in gw1, it was glorious!!!

Took me about that long, correct. Never rushed it, took my time, enjoyed the game. Never put any focus on anything. Eventually I got GWAMM and 50/50 with about 2000 hours played in 7 years. I never put full dedication towards it because THATS BORING. Why would I get GWAMM in a week if I could get it in 7 years instead.

marnick.4305:

Nuka Cola.8520:

marnick.4305:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Tachenon.5270:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

A persistent world doesn’t actually reset, even if events within it might cycle. The world itself is open. In other words, it persists.

Endlessly recycling events in GW2 produce the same effect as zones resetting in GW1: despite all your efforts to the contrary, nothing has really changed.

This is completely untrue. When I walk out a gate in Guild Wars 1 I know exactly where every creature will be…where they’ll spawn…where they’ll drop. The closest thing to random I can find in Guild Wars 1 is the rotating bosses in some zones, which if you’re looking to cap an elite is merely annoying.

In Guild Wars 2, I don’t always know what I’ll find when I walk out a gate. An event may spawn, it may not spawn. In fact, in Guild Wars 1, once you finish your quests, you pretty much just have mobs in zones, and maybe an occasional repeatable quest. But you don’t anything else but mobs all standing in exactly the same spot.

Cyclic events aren’t the same as static events, or even no events.

Just the fact that an event can scale up changes it dramatically. There’s no reason for events to scale in Guild Wars 2, because the game knows exactly how many people you’re taking. You can take less or more, but the event never changes.

There are times, due to spawning or even overlapping events that some interesting results have occurred. That just doesn’t happen in Guild Wars 1.

Vayne, Please… Mobs just standing in one spot? Guess you never did DOA/UW did you. Or half the game, obviously. Mobs in GW1 patrol a LOT bigger areas, Particularly in NF and EoTN. Just stop already. There is no reason to state an outright exaggeration to prove whatever point you think you are proving. It only weakens that point.

I’m a legendary Vanquisher, are you? Must have been so easy for you, knowing EXACTLY where every mob “just standing there” would be. How much GW1 did you actually play? How can you even make such claims?

And GW2? again, come on, Please.. Daily Kill variety quests I run directly to the spots I know mobs will be. Other dailies I run directly to the mobs I need, for what I need, and so does everyone else. It never varies, ever, except to wait for respawn. If anything, big patrol pattern mobs are RARER in GW2 than GW1. I know where DE mobs will spawn, how many, where and when. Every player who does Maw, Dragons, every Meta also knows what will spawn, when it will spawn, and where it will spawn. Jeez.. Random, GW2 is not, and any player who does dailies knows this.

There are enough legitimate differences, pros and cons, both sides, to debate a preference for either game. You really don’t need to manufacture a post like this.

He said he played gw1 for 5 and half years and he didn’t liked dungeons nor pvp lol he played for over half a decade ignoring the best parts of the game. I wonder, what exactly a person that logs in for so long could be doing? Probably lying to prove his points…

He could be honest. I played PVP sporadically, and hardly did dungeons except for the achievements. There was a lot to do in that game, and that could mean me and vayne disagree on the best part. For me it was mostly about title hunting which meant basically anything but dungeons and pvp No lying required, although it shows how dishonest you just are.

Sounds fair but title hunting for five and a half years? I mean if you were playing casually 1h per week then sure but if you were ‘playing’ the game, it wouldn’t take you anywhere near to get GWAMM (if that’s what you were aiming for). its your play style liking maxing titles and that’s fine but i just cannot believe when some1 tells me he didn’t like dungeons/pvp in gw1, it was glorious!!!

Took me about that long, correct. Never rushed it, took my time, enjoyed the game. Never put any focus on anything. Eventually I got GWAMM and 50/50 with about 2000 hours played in 7 years. I never put full dedication towards it because THATS BORING. Why would I get GWAMM in a week if I could get it in 7 years instead.

Confused here, titles towards the Kind of A Big Deal/Max Titles Rank never became prevalent until later on in the Guild Wars time frame. Originally titles were a pure cosmetic like GW2 and served no purpose, nor a goal for GWAMM. Especially not for HoM

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

silvermember.8941:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

If I could transfer my Norn to GW1, I would NOT be here. And that is the solid truth.

That is like saying IF I could have played 10, 13, 14, 22, 52 and 11, I would have won the 600 million dollar powerball, unfortunately I did not, so it doesn’t matter.

.

Here, let me type slower and louder for you. I’m playing GW2 at this point simply because I love my Norn characters.

So, hypothetically, if Norn were a playable race in GW1, there would be no reason for me to be here.

Conversely, if Norn had never been playable here, I would have never installed this. I bought after launch, and had real trepidation then.

It is an illustrative statement of just how thin the margin is that is keeping me here at all.
[/quote]

Hey don’t get mad at me because of your dumb “IF statement” was. That’s the brilliance of IF statements you can fantasies all you want, but it wont be true.

It doesn’t matter how "thin’ your margin for playing the game is, the fact is you are playing the game.

Nuka Cola.8520:

but i just cannot believe when some1 tells me he didn’t like dungeons/pvp in gw1, it was glorious!!!

it took me 1 year and 7 months to get GWAMM and I only played dungeons once to get the “necessary” titles. This doesn’t include the storyline required dungeons.
To get my obsidian I got a run in FoW. Of course I fought on the way but that was pretty much all the time I was there.
Played PvP because they gave points for losers too otherwise I would have skipped it entirely. I think my team’s wining rate was ~20% most of the time.
And yes, I played GW1 for 5+ years. Beaten all campaigns storylines with 17 characters
and grinding the gifts of the traveler only when they were easy to get.

Antara

The “MM” part stands for “Massively Multiplayer.” Massively is an adjective here describing multiplayer, it’s not a stand-alone word. GW1 is multiplayer, but it’s certainly not massive about it because 95% of it is instanced and limited to 8 players. That, in conjunction with the “persistent” aspect of MMO’s, is what, I think, people are arguing about.

Yes, there’s 5% of the game that you can call “massive”(the towns). But that’s a lot like saying my Camry is a sports car because it has a spoiler on the back. If you look at the game as a whole and are being forced to pin it as either CoRPG or MMORPG, the former is a way better fit for it…even though it has a few elements of the latter.

On topic though, I agree with most of what you say about the OP’s post. :P

This is how I see it:

GW2 is an MMO. Quite simply, it is a tag that has been used for a long time to describe any game that can have more than 4 people log in to the same server at the same time and do the same things in an open world environment. (Anyone remember epic runs across the world with friends in EQ1?)

GW1, on the other hand was an IMO, which is a tag meaning that the majority of the content is instanced rather than Open world. Still multi-player, and still an online game, but there was no open world that you could actually see other groups running around in.

Yes, there are things I miss about GW1 (still playing occasionally, by the way) but, in truth, I would not want to “go back” and start it as a new game purchase.

GW2 is truly a great game. It is NOT for everyone. Some of the concepts that the devs have instituted are truly unique. While some may not be well-liked by many of the masses, it doesn’t mean they are any less innovative.

Cases in point:

1. Living Story – Yes, some people see it as filler material, but if you lok at it objectively, it is something new to do roughly every month or so. It may not be a full-on expansion, but, it’s better than running CoFp1 endlessly with nothing new on the map.

2. No Trinity – Before you flame, keep in mind that just because the PLAYERS have made certain professions less desireable than others, doesn’t mean that there’s a trinity of professions. There is not specific classes for healing or tanking. There are skills and builds that allow for those roles, but there is no “cleric” class. For the first time that I can recall, you could heal yourself WITHOUT potions. That in and of itself is a BIG advancement.

3. Guesting on other servers – Yes, you’re restricted by region, but how many other MMOs can you play and not have to pay to change servers for a while? GW1 doesn’t count, because the whole server set-up is different. You don’t choose a “homeworld” when you first log in. In most other games, you pick a server, and then it’s $19.95 (+tax) to change for any length of time, and then another $19.95 to change back. At least here, you can move around your region.

4. Finally, the cash shop – While the cash shop itself isn’t new, the fact that you can use game funds to convert to real funds for cash shop purchases is HUGE! In all the MMOs I have played over the years (and there have been a LOT) there has only been one other where I could convert in-game gold to cash shop currency and vice versa. Every other game I have played has made the two mutually exclusive aside from buying the items with real money and selling them in-game (if possible) for game funds. There may be more out there, but GW2 and PWI (Perfect World International) are the only games I have played that allow you to do this. I won’t go into what a mess PWI is…that’s a whole other thread…

TL;DR version:
Yes, GW2 has issues and problems that some of the general playerbase doesn’t like. It also has some pretty innovative features that will keep me playing for a very long time. All I can say is that if you don’t like it, and you hate things that badly, why are you still playing?