Guild Wars 2

darkace.8925:

Coulter.2315:

I’m not sure you could find me a single business in existance that doesn’t aim for “cost efficiency.”

SquareEnix once threw an Final Fantasy XI event in my college town. Admission was free. Pizza and drinks served all day long was free. Entry to the Q&A panel was free. Mingling with the models they’d paid to dress up like Mithra was free. Entry into the tournament was free. Entry into the level 1 race through an endgame zone was free. Entry into the costume contest was free. They gave away all kinds prizes, up to and including a PC in a tower with a custom FFXI graphics design. And great fun was had by all.

Given that all of this cost SE a lot of money, and they recouped none at all from admission, how was that event “cost efficient”? I’ll tell you; because though “good will” isn’t listed on earnings reports, it can greatly contribute to profitability.

By my estimate, ArenaNet burned all of their good will some time ago and now they’re just milking whatever loyal customers they’ve got left while the milk’s still flowing. You can disagree with me if you want, but one look at the cash shop offerings over the last year contrasted to those added in-game will tell you quite clearly that I’m right.

I’m not sure how large that FF events is. I would think a local community events wont’ even cost that much.

Anet also spent lots of money on events, their so called esports, advertisement, and video game conference.

Quite honestly I almost never spent any money on the cash shop. The most money I spent is probably buying 5 accounts and buy 5 expansion. I don’t felt like Anet is milking me. I played enough Nexon game to know what milking players mean.

But obviously, if you have no self control to buy cash shop item, you are probably better of playing subscription game and pay money every month.

darkace.8925:

Coulter.2315:

I’m not sure you could find me a single business in existance that doesn’t aim for “cost efficiency.”

SquareEnix once threw an Final Fantasy XI event in my college town. Admission was free. Pizza and drinks served all day long was free. Entry to the Q&A panel was free. Mingling with the models they’d paid to dress up like Mithra was free. Entry into the tournament was free. Entry into the level 1 race through an endgame zone was free. Entry into the costume contest was free. They gave away all kinds prizes, up to and including a PC in a tower with a custom FFXI graphics design. And great fun was had by all.

Given that all of this cost SE a lot of money, and they recouped none at all from admission, how was that event “cost efficient”? I’ll tell you; because though “good will” isn’t listed on earnings reports, it can greatly contribute to profitability.

How much publicity for the game did they get?

Actually, I just did a quick search and saw that these seemed to coincide with upcoming releases of their expansions.

http://gamerescape.com/2014/06/24/a-look-back-at-square-enix-fan-fests/

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

If you were talking about your family budget, then yes I’d say that’s exactly how cost efficiency works. However, I’ve worked in a few large corporations and cost effifiency is just slang for “squeeze every last drop until all you have left is a dry husk”. (at least that’s been my experiences)

Swagger.1459:

Tigaseye.2047:

Raziel.4216:

Tigaseye.2047:

Some people have a sense for these things.

Probably not sensing that sales are falling, as such, but sensing discontent, unhappiness, or just sheer (relative) emptiness.

Not a valid argument, unless you can prove that your “sense” is somehow a valid predictor when compared to real evidence.

Tigaseye.2047:

Not to mention that, for example, if you are in a few big guilds and they seem a lot emptier, it’s not rocket science to extrapolate from that, that it might be happening in more than just your guilds.

You’d need a huge sample size for that to be valid.
My guild is very active, can I extrapolate that and assume that everyone else’s is doing just fine?
No, that’d be just as flawed.
Same for WvW maps, we know they’re doing bad not because we “feel” it, we’ve Arenanet telling us they’ll try to fix it.
Bellyfeelings are subjective and not a valid source of info.

Of course it isn’t a “valid source of info” – it’s just a hunch (albeit, possibly, a somewhat informed one).

This isn’t a science project; it’s just a forum.

People are allowed to post their feelings here, too.

…and in fact, one could argue that people’s feelings about things are, quite possibly, more important than evidence, when it comes to frivolous things, like games.

As, if people don’t “feel” like playing a game, for whatever reason (proven, or otherwise), they don’t have to.

Swagger.1459:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm that wasn’t my quote… You got it mixed up with someone else…

Yeah, sorry Swagger.

I tried to edit, to delete a long swathe of quoted text and the first time I tried I must have left both your names, as it didn’t post at all and by the time I got to redo it, I must have deleted the wrong name.

For some reason, this forum can take up to a minute to load a reply/edit.

So, by then, I have often totally lost the will to live, frankly.

I’ve never had this problem with any other forum.

Or not to anywhere near this extent, anyway.

Haha I forgive you

See, these broken forums are another reason ncsoft should dump more money into Anet

lol, yes quite.

Raziel.4216:

Tigaseye.2047:

Of course it isn’t a “valid source of info” – it’s just a hunch (albeit, possibly, a somewhat informed one).

This isn’t a science project; it’s just a forum.

People are allowed to post their feelings here, too.

Sure, just don’t call’em valid sources of info when one is requested to check the validity of an argument, and make sure you admit you lack any real info to back up the “game’s dying!!!1!, mass exodus!! everyone abandon ship!!” arguments.
There’s way too many people throwing the doom predictions around like they’re facts. When a source is requested, people have “numbers”, heck someone even had “a conference call” between important people and “financial documents” to prove his point, he just forgot to link’em.
Remember, you’re entitled to your opinion, your “bellyfeelings”, but not your facts, reality checks are not limited to science projects.

As far as I’m aware, no one has called any opinion they have stated, on this thread, a “valid source of info”.

I certainly didn’t, anyway.

That is entirely your choice of words.

You’ve, basically, invented your own totally arbitrary criteria, which you apparently think we are all supposed to adhere to, while posting on this forum.

Then, as if that wasn’t enough, you have not only accused people of not adhering to your arbitrary (and rather bizarre) criteria, but you have also (totally falsely) accused them of wrongly describing their comments as adhering to that criteria.

That isn’t at all reasonable, you know.

As I say – we can say what we like, when it comes to personal opinion about the game.

If we say we “feel” something, that is fine and totally acceptable.

We don’t have to try to prove it.

If you don’t like people posting their unproven feelings and impressions, I suggest you either try to adapt, or avoid all forums, from now on.

Not just this one.

Because forums everywhere are full of people saying “I think” and “I feel”, all the time and that isn’t going to change any time soon.

Nor should it.

BilboBaggins.5620:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

If you were talking about your family budget, then yes I’d say that’s exactly how cost efficiency works. However, I’ve worked in a few large corporations and cost effifiency is just slang for “squeeze every last drop until all you have left is a dry husk”. (at least that’s been my experiences)

Cutting waste from expenses is one aspect but there’s much more to it than that. The problem is that the OP made up their definition so it consisted only of that aspect while conveniently ignoring the rest. Not to mention that nothing from NCSoft, that they linked, mentioned cost efficiency. That was something added by the author of the article. For all we know, it was about marketing which has nothing to do with operations.

Tigaseye.2047:

You’ve, basically, invented your own totally arbitrary criteria, which you apparently think we are all supposed to adhere to, while posting on this forum.

The criteria of backing claims up?
If someone calims the game’s doing bad based on patch notes, some conference call and financial documents (was there something else?) I’d expect whoever made the claim to provide this information that’s supposed to back his position.
It’s called burden of proof, it’s not my arbitrary creation.

Tigaseye.2047:

Then, as if that wasn’t enough, you have not only accused people of not adhering to your arbitrary (and rather bizarre) criteria, but you have also (totally falsely) accused them of wrongly describing their comments as adhering to that criteria.

Burden of proof is not bizarre, it’s expected when making claims that should be backed by external sources.

Tigaseye.2047:

That isn’t at all reasonable, you know.

Your reply isn’t, that’s for sure

Tigaseye.2047:

As I say – we can say what we like, when it comes to personal opinion about the game.

There’s a big difference between I don’t like something and hey guys, this game’s doing bad according to X, Y and Z.

Tigaseye.2047:

If we say we “feel” something, that is fine and totally acceptable.

Not when people have different “feels”, you can’t have 2 realities.

Tigaseye.2047:

We don’t have to try to prove it.

This would apply if it was simply a matter of opinion

Tigaseye.2047:

If you don’t like people posting their unproven feelings and impressions, I suggest you either try to adapt, or avoid all forums, from now on.

I’m doing just fine calling baseless claims out, thank you for your concern.

Tigaseye.2047:

Because forums everywhere are full of people saying “I think” and “I feel”, all the time and that isn’t going to change any time soon.

Nor should it.

I don’t expect that to change, there’s a difference between bellyfeelings and factual reality.
Bizarre indeed

Raziel.4216:

No.
When asked about why feelings were valid you claimed “Some people have a sense for these things”
I was talking to the guy who has access to some external info + some weird interpretation of patch notes that somehow back his claims.

OK, well I don’t know what he may have said previously, on other threads, but he didn’t say that, at all, in the post you were responding to.

Here it is:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do we need facts? You can FEEL it in-game, something has changed, and not for the better. I pretty much have played every day since launch, now due to a log jam on masteries I mostly log in for dailies only.

Sales are one part of the pie, running through ghost maps is another. I always see more people at SB then I do in VB. Congratulations on the challenging content Anet that 2.7% of the population asked for.

This post and your reply to it is all I was responding to.

Not some previous conversation you two may, or may not, have been having, on some other thread.

This comment is the first and only post, made by this poster, in this thread.

So, I really have no idea what you are talking about.

darkace.8925:

Coulter.2315:

I’m not sure you could find me a single business in existance that doesn’t aim for “cost efficiency.”

SquareEnix once threw an Final Fantasy XI event in my college town. Admission was free. Pizza and drinks served all day long was free. Entry to the Q&A panel was free. Mingling with the models they’d paid to dress up like Mithra was free. Entry into the tournament was free. Entry into the level 1 race through an endgame zone was free. Entry into the costume contest was free. They gave away all kinds prizes, up to and including a PC in a tower with a custom FFXI graphics design. And great fun was had by all.

Given that all of this cost SE a lot of money, and they recouped none at all from admission, how was that event “cost efficient”? I’ll tell you; because though “good will” isn’t listed on earnings reports, it can greatly contribute to profitability.

By my estimate, ArenaNet burned all of their good will some time ago and now they’re just milking whatever loyal customers they’ve got left while the milk’s still flowing. You can disagree with me if you want, but one look at the cash shop offerings over the last year contrasted to those added in-game will tell you quite clearly that I’m right.

I’ve looked at what was added in game compared to what was added in the cash shop and I don’t agree with you. I don’t think you’re quite clearly right.

Anet didn’t burn all their good will. They have definitely burned some of their good will. Of course, other games have also burned their good will. It seems almost every MMO I’ve played has pretty consistently burned all their good will. It’s almost universal.

You see WoW players talking about how bad WoW got. You see what Blizzard did with DS 3 and the backlash of that. SWToR burned a lot of good will before it went “free to play”. Final Fantasy released an almost unplayable game and had to put it on hold while they complete redid it and released it. TSW saw an CEO resign and had to fire a third of their staff and now they’re looking for a buyer, because you know, there’s issues there.

Everyone who has a gripe with a company thinks that the company burned all their good will. Well if now all they’re doing is milking the public, then surely they won’t be coming out with anything new, because you know, they’re milking their public.

Newsflash. There are people out there, more than just a few people, who are enjoying the expansion. I see them playing every day. I also hear complaints too.

Most of the complain threads on these forums are about 50/50 when you look at the responses, particularly if you take out the white knights and those with an axe to grind.

No, I don’t think Anet has burned all it’s good will, though that may be true with the WvW crowd, or the PvP crowd. But as I’ve said many times, lots of people in my guild and a couple of them are dissatisfied, but they represent a pretty small minority.

I would guess that the most annoyed people go to forums. The people who aren’t annoyed just play the game.

Announce soon to be seen

Dear players,in order to lower maintenance cost prices,to make game better for you,we reducing unlimited play time,to 2 hours a day(permanent).From 10:00 to 12:00 all servers will be on line.After that,servers shuts down,until tomorrow same time.

Do not worry,we doing this for you.Because of this,you will have better game.

Much love,forever yours Arena Net aka “cost-efficiency”

Ragnarox.9601:

Gw2 sales dropping? They lie! Everything is perfect here, community is great, game is great, expansion is great, everything is great and there are endless rivers of honey and milk in game too.

/turned off sarcasm

As I said before, this expansion is not worth 45€ atm (feel bad for those that spent 100€). They hyped us with so much content and everything and we got gem shop expansion with nerfed core game rewards. Esports failed, balance failed, wvw borders are dead except EB. Only few armors that are obtainable through game. PVP is crap now, should I continue?…

Graphics of the expansion is one thing that is positive to me, praise to the graphic dev team. And some elite specs….

Very unhappy customer.

“Arena.net we nerf everything and today even the visuals,because we don’t know what are we doing with this game”

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

Coulter.2315:

I’m not sure you could find me a single business in existance that doesn’t aim for “cost efficiency.”

SquareEnix once threw an Final Fantasy XI event in my college town. Admission was free. Pizza and drinks served all day long was free. Entry to the Q&A panel was free. Mingling with the models they’d paid to dress up like Mithra was free. Entry into the tournament was free. Entry into the level 1 race through an endgame zone was free. Entry into the costume contest was free. They gave away all kinds prizes, up to and including a PC in a tower with a custom FFXI graphics design. And great fun was had by all.

Given that all of this cost SE a lot of money, and they recouped none at all from admission, how was that event “cost efficient”? I’ll tell you; because though “good will” isn’t listed on earnings reports, it can greatly contribute to profitability.

By my estimate, ArenaNet burned all of their good will some time ago and now they’re just milking whatever loyal customers they’ve got left while the milk’s still flowing. You can disagree with me if you want, but one look at the cash shop offerings over the last year contrasted to those added in-game will tell you quite clearly that I’m right.

I’ve looked at what was added in game compared to what was added in the cash shop and I don’t agree with you. I don’t think you’re quite clearly right.

Anet didn’t burn all their good will. They have definitely burned some of their good will. Of course, other games have also burned their good will. It seems almost every MMO I’ve played has pretty consistently burned all their good will. It’s almost universal.

You see WoW players talking about how bad WoW got. You see what Blizzard did with DS 3 and the backlash of that. SWToR burned a lot of good will before it went “free to play”. Final Fantasy released an almost unplayable game and had to put it on hold while they complete redid it and released it. TSW saw an CEO resign and had to fire a third of their staff and now they’re looking for a buyer, because you know, there’s issues there.

Everyone who has a gripe with a company thinks that the company burned all their good will. Well if now all they’re doing is milking the public, then surely they won’t be coming out with anything new, because you know, they’re milking their public.

Newsflash. There are people out there, more than just a few people, who are enjoying the expansion. I see them playing every day. I also hear complaints too.

Most of the complain threads on these forums are about 50/50 when you look at the responses, particularly if you take out the white knights and those with an axe to grind.

No, I don’t think Anet has burned all it’s good will, though that may be true with the WvW crowd, or the PvP crowd. But as I’ve said many times, lots of people in my guild and a couple of them are dissatisfied, but they represent a pretty small minority.

I would guess that the most annoyed people go to forums. The people who aren’t annoyed just play the game.

You bring up some good points, I agree with you.

Let’s hope this game, we obviously like enough to talk about, gets better.

BilboBaggins.5620:

Ayrilana.1396:

Swagger.1459:

Ayrilana.1396:

It only seems bad because of the definition you made up for cost efficiency.

Pay attention to most of the game and the development, and you’ll see the effects of “cost efficiency” in action. Put things into better context…

Cost efficiency is using all of your resources (which have costs) to produce a product or service with a maximum outcome. It’s simply using your existing resources efficiency.

If you were talking about your family budget, then yes I’d say that’s exactly how cost efficiency works. However, I’ve worked in a few large corporations and cost effifiency is just slang for “squeeze every last drop until all you have left is a dry husk”. (at least that’s been my experiences)

I agree, in my experience its the words you hear as they try to squeeze every last penny they can before closures or sales.

Necrum Davengers.3519:

Ragnarox.9601:

Gw2 sales dropping? They lie! Everything is perfect here, community is great, game is great, expansion is great, everything is great and there are endless rivers of honey and milk in game too.

/turned off sarcasm

As I said before, this expansion is not worth 45€ atm (feel bad for those that spent 100€). They hyped us with so much content and everything and we got gem shop expansion with nerfed core game rewards. Esports failed, balance failed, wvw borders are dead except EB. Only few armors that are obtainable through game. PVP is crap now, should I continue?…

Graphics of the expansion is one thing that is positive to me, praise to the graphic dev team. And some elite specs….

Very unhappy customer.

“Arena.net we nerf everything and today even the visuals,because we don’t know what are we doing with this game”

For real. It only takes a few seconds to click the best performance option when running with a large zerg in PVE or WvW. If someone is too dumb or stubborn to lower their graphics settings then they deserve the slide show. Rather than wasting dev time on nerfing visuals they should have made a popup with an option to check to never see the popup again. This popup would open when your FPS dips to slide show number and says “your frames suck and you are lagging like a kitten. Click here to increase your performance”. Then have a button in the popup window that sets the player to best performance. If that wasn’t enough then Arenanet could have made the new lame visuals an option in the graphics settings that would be set when on best performance.