Guild Wars 2

It’s in no way pay to win. The day they start selling Ascended Gear in the shop it will be pay to win. And if that happens I’m sure most of us will quit. But I highly doubt that will ever happen.

angelpaladin.7921:

Kimyrielle.3826:

While it’s indeed interesting to note that the cash stop has become the primary source for obtaining skins in a game that has been advertised as being all about collecting skins, that hardly makes it Pay to Win.
But yes, I am actually wondering what we’re still playing the actual game for, if everything desirable can be obtained in the cash shop and nowhere else. Except backpieces and helmets (which I am utterly not interested in, as none of my characters ever display helmets, shoulders, and backpacks), not many skins drop in the actual in-game content. At least both my main characters wear cash shop armour as this is the only gear in the game I find not to look horrible…

this nails my point completely P2Win traditionally meant boosters or gear that gave you the ability to beat end game content. Anet has no end game content in the traditional since the end game content is the skins you get.

P2W means winning. Pay to WIN. What the hell are you winning with skins? I don’t see anyone kicking kitten in wvw or speed running dungeons because of their mlg rox bow. Endgame is NOT skins. Endgame is enjoying the game after you did everything you wanna do. If skins is how you like to stroke your kitten then fine, but p2w is having a bigger advantage than others, usually in the form of stats.

angelpaladin.7921:

Maybe I am mistaken but Pay 2 Win to me means paying for what is essential endgame content. Two me the endgame in Guildwars2 would be the dressing up and looking fancy.

Here are the questions you need to ask to determine if a game is pay to win:

• will you be farmed in PvP by players with a bigger wallet? Think 20vs1 (that’s twenty versus one) where the one player beats the entire zerg (real example that does exist). Or when the entire team knows a PvP match is over as soon as they see a known cash shopper enter the arena.

• will you be excluded from groups because you don’t have enough cash shop items? P2W content is designed and balanced around cash shop, so you have no chance to complete it unless you have a minimum amount of said items.

Paying for content has nothing to do with paying to win that content.

cryforthemoon.9326:

So it’s P2W because if I don’t buy skins I will be kicked from a dungeon or something? Kitts why did someone not tell me this sooner I’m out of here.

Wait for it

looking pretty does not = P2W

You are missing the point. What he is saying is that in a PvP game winning is the goal, in a PvE game (Like GW2) fluff the goal.

P2W in a PvP game is bad because you get the goal with money. However in GW2 the best fluff is the goal and paying with money will get you a big way getting the ‘best’ fluff and so the goal of the game.

Meaning what P2W is in a PvP game, P4fluff is in GW2. And he is correct in that however I personally base it more on the way how the gem-store focus is bad for the game.

Haircuts ingame at a barber would be a better game but thats fluff (hair styles) in the game and anet sells them in the gem-store (P4fluff) making the quality of the game not as good as a game where it would have been in the game itself.

They should simply focus on expansions for income not on the gem-store. See the gem-store as a nice extra but not more. Then all this sort of stuff can get in the game and in the gem-store you just find thinks like a few! special mini’s (not the complete list of mini’s like now because mini’s are also fluff) and the upgrades like extra character slots and bag slots, bank slots, the name changer makes sense in the gem-store and a few of those thinks. But not the fluff. That should mainly be in the game.

SeNoZinD.9874:

angelpaladin.7921:

Kimyrielle.3826:

While it’s indeed interesting to note that the cash stop has become the primary source for obtaining skins in a game that has been advertised as being all about collecting skins, that hardly makes it Pay to Win.
But yes, I am actually wondering what we’re still playing the actual game for, if everything desirable can be obtained in the cash shop and nowhere else. Except backpieces and helmets (which I am utterly not interested in, as none of my characters ever display helmets, shoulders, and backpacks), not many skins drop in the actual in-game content. At least both my main characters wear cash shop armour as this is the only gear in the game I find not to look horrible…

this nails my point completely P2Win traditionally meant boosters or gear that gave you the ability to beat end game content. Anet has no end game content in the traditional since the end game content is the skins you get.

P2W means winning. Pay to WIN. What the hell are you winning with skins? I don’t see anyone kicking kitten in wvw or speed running dungeons because of their mlg rox bow. Endgame is NOT skins. Endgame is enjoying the game after you did everything you wanna do. If skins is how you like to stroke your kitten then fine, but p2w is having a bigger advantage than others, usually in the form of stats.

If you put it like that. P2W in a PvP game means winning the kill. P2W in a PvE game means winning the skin.

But I think my previous post explains it better because what he is saying is not that it’s exacly the same but thats it’s wrong because of simular reasons.

Oh man, I was just thinking the same thing, noticing that the guy in the flashy gem store skin was out-DPSing me when we were wailing on Frost a couple of days ago in CM.

Okay, I couldn’t type that with a straight face.

DusK.3849:

Oh man, I was just thinking the same thing, noticing that the guy in the flashy gem store skin was out-DPSing me when we were wailing on Frost a couple of days ago in CM.

Okay, I couldn’t type that with a straight face.

This game is not about out-DPSing you. It’s about out-flashing you.

Devata.6589:

This game is not about out-DPSing you. It’s about out-flashing you.

You’ve been flashing other players in GW2?! REPORTED for inappropriate conduct.

In all seriousness though, P2W means spending money gives you a gameplay advantage over other players. Looking cool doesn’t offer you any advantage so it’s not P2W.

If other players looking cooler than you bothers you so much than you need to rethink your priorities. Or maybe you’re just a butt-sore individual who flashes PUGS.

PUG FLASHER!!!

Scrambles.2604:

I was roaming in WvW when I stumbled across an enemy Guardian that was decked out in fresh Gem store gear. It was at that point that I laid down my weapons and surrendered—there was no way i could compete with his beauty.

P2W i agree with OP.

Oh crap that happen to me too. Looks like you and me need to hit the GEM store and get us some P2W gear.

Win what? Ability to ego afk at LA? Why does it always have to be a “win” everywhere? What’s wrong with playing for fun?

Devata.6589:

You are missing the point. What he is saying is that in a PvP game winning is the goal, in a PvE game (Like GW2) fluff the goal.

They should simply focus on expansions for income not on the gem-store. See the gem-store as a nice extra but not more. Then all this sort of stuff can get in the game and in the gem-store you just find thinks like a few! special mini’s (not the complete list of mini’s like now because mini’s are also fluff) and the upgrades like extra character slots and bag slots, bank slots, the name changer makes sense in the gem-store and a few of those thinks. But not the fluff. That should mainly be in the game.

You mean there are people that are willing to buy gear that gives them no stats just to look cool. Dear me I guess I should stop playing sense those people won and I did not because I’m not buying said gear.

I should rethink my whole reason for playing now. OH dear oh me oh my what was I thinking? I guess next time I’m in PVP and I see someone in cool fluff gem gear I should take all my gear off and let them win.

It has been pay to win for a very long time since the only thing which matters is gold and gold can of course be bought with real money.

I long for the day when the gold market dies and is replaced by something more meaningful. Sadly I have a feeling that the game itself will die long before that comes to pass.

angelpaladin.7921:

I am sure my thread will be deleted and mean warned cause its not the kinda topic anet wants discussed on there forums. I do ask everyone act polite and be respectful. I like to have a genuine and honest discussion about the current state of the game and where its headed.

I have noticed over the past few month’s they have been adding more and more cosmetic item’s to the GEM store. Which is fine except they are not balancing these cosmetic updates on the gem store with in game updates of equal quality.

The idea behind GW2 was to have a game with no vertical progression. Instead the entire game would be based around a horizontal progression. Where the only things you would have to grind for where skin’s.

That’s fine I can understand taking the game in that direction. Instead of the main focus being armor which is easy to get it was getting skins. Having a rare, exclusive, good looking armor/weapon skin is the entire focus of the game. That is why people go for legendary.

Lately they have released all new skin sets on the GEM Store for 800 gem’s while releasing very little if any new skins to the player population. They have also released RNG based weapon skins and RNG based dye’s both cosmetic upgrades.

With the game revolving around cosmetics and not armor its self adding these items to the Gem store in such large quantity’s essential makes the game P2W. This is almost the equivalent of a standard MMO adding top tier armor that can only be obtained thought differentiate content to there in game store.

Maybe the focus should be switched on the gem store maybe they should add more stat item’s that are easily obtainable anyway to the gem store. Maybe a generic set of exotics for 800gems. That can be gotten for new alts or toon’s would be far more appropriate then the current trend of cosmetic items in this game.

Imo you dont know what you’re saying… is there anything that can kill a player in pvp in the gemstore? NONE so how is it pay to win?

Not sure if serious or if trolling. Pay to win a fashion contest?

The very definition of the opposite of P2W is cosmetics – at least in the F2P model.

Now excuse my while I go and buy a flamekissed armor skin and go use my unfair advantage against Tequatl, people in PvP and solo a Abbandon’s zerg – with my level 2 alt longbow bear ranger.

zamalek.2154:

Not sure if serious or if trolling. Pay to win a fashion contest?

The very definition of the opposite of P2W is cosmetics – at least in the F2P model.

Now excuse my while I go and buy a flamekissed armor skin and go use my unfair advantage against Tequatl, people in PvP and solo a Abbandon’s zerg – with my level 2 alt longbow bear ranger.

Maybe the OP hasn’t played P2win mmos lol!

So how exactly would you “win” with an unique armor SKIN? o.O

Do you even know what P2W means? Have you ever played a P2W game?

Go try World of Tanks, see if there is a difference between their cash shop and Gw2’s cash shop.

Not to mention you can get everything from Gw2’s store with in-game game.

What…the…hell…people? Don’t you have anything better in your lives than to moan about non-existing problems? Are you that much bored?

I don’t like the look of the cultural gem store armor skin so I don’t buy it. Does this mean that now I lose?

I did buy the heavy Braham skin set for one of my characters so I guess I won that time.

One win, one loss so my total score is 0 now?

Or actually that Braham set is the only set I have bought so I guess my real total score is a huge negative. I’m losing so hard.

I just don’t know what did I lose.

Devata.6589:

This game is not about out-DPSing you. It’s about out-flashing you.

So if one were to make the argument that the gem store armor is all less attractive than options available in game we would need to change the title of the thread to:

GW2 Becoming P2L (pay to lose).

I’ve seen level 80’s transmuting their starter gear over their lv 80 exotics. Guess they should have uninstalled the game as soon they created their characters since they’d already “won”.

How about Play to Win instead ^^;?

My Mesmer has standard, crafted level 80 armor which I’ve never replaced on her cuz I happen to think she looks really good in it. Now, if I’m standing by someone who is wearing the newest gem store armor and I’m looking at them and thinking “That’s sooo ugly!” and their looking at me and thinking, “Crafted. That’s sooo lame!” Which one of us is winning?

Astral Projections.7320:

My Mesmer has standard, crafted level 80 armor which I’ve never replaced on her cuz I happen to think she looks really good in it. Now, if I’m standing by someone who is wearing the newest gem store armor and I’m looking at them and thinking “That’s sooo ugly!” and their looking at me and thinking, “Crafted. That’s sooo lame!” Which one of us is winning?

The whining one seems to be the winning one in this game.
Joke aside, if you both look the way you want, then I’d say you’ve pretty much both won. ^^

Someone needs to learn what ‘play to win’ means before using terms he does not understand. Not telling you who.

Please tell me what should I buy to “win”…

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

Would save so much heartache to just post this. This guy clearly does not know what paying to win means.

Finnway.2183:

Devata.6589:

This game is not about out-DPSing you. It’s about out-flashing you.

You’ve been flashing other players in GW2?! REPORTED for inappropriate conduct.

In all seriousness though, P2W means spending money gives you a gameplay advantage over other players. Looking cool doesn’t offer you any advantage so it’s not P2W.

If other players looking cooler than you bothers you so much than you need to rethink your priorities. Or maybe you’re just a butt-sore individual who flashes PUGS.

PUG FLASHER!!!

Like I also said before. For me it’s more what it does to the game the having the better looking armor or anything. So no thats not what it is about for me.

What I did here was explain that while INDEED this in not litteraly P2W the reasons for not liking P2W (getting the goal (winning) by buying) is the same as the goal here seems having the best looks and people can buy that. So in a way this mechanism is just as bad for a PvE game as P2W is for a PvP game.

I did explain that because people (like now you) keep saying.. no it’s not P2W.. No it isen’t but thats not what OP is really saying, he says it has a simular effect.

Then again, most people don’t even read the OP, and for sure the the comments, they just see the title and make a useless post that looks are not P2W.

So no it’s not the same but you can say the problem is.

However again! Personally I don’t like what they are doing because I think it results in a lesser game (see one of my previous post) not for the simple fact that somebody who uses gems can better reach the goal (better fluff) in this game.

cryforthemoon.9326:

Devata.6589:

You are missing the point. What he is saying is that in a PvP game winning is the goal, in a PvE game (Like GW2) fluff the goal.

They should simply focus on expansions for income not on the gem-store. See the gem-store as a nice extra but not more. Then all this sort of stuff can get in the game and in the gem-store you just find thinks like a few! special mini’s (not the complete list of mini’s like now because mini’s are also fluff) and the upgrades like extra character slots and bag slots, bank slots, the name changer makes sense in the gem-store and a few of those thinks. But not the fluff. That should mainly be in the game.

You mean there are people that are willing to buy gear that gives them no stats just to look cool. Dear me I guess I should stop playing sense those people won and I did not because I’m not buying said gear.

I should rethink my whole reason for playing now. OH dear oh me oh my what was I thinking? I guess next time I’m in PVP and I see someone in cool fluff gem gear I should take all my gear off and let them win.

And once again somebody keeps talking about the winning. It’s a PvE game it’s not about winning. And why would you stop playing if somebody else got better gear? You also stop playing if you get killed in a PvP match? You make no sense what so ever.

But then again, maybe it’s just to complicated for you to understand what OP is talking about. Thats oke, I don’t blame you, no hard feelings.

WingLegacy.7159:

angelpaladin.7921:

I am sure my thread will be deleted and mean warned cause its not the kinda topic anet wants discussed on there forums. I do ask everyone act polite and be respectful. I like to have a genuine and honest discussion about the current state of the game and where its headed.

I have noticed over the past few month’s they have been adding more and more cosmetic item’s to the GEM store. Which is fine except they are not balancing these cosmetic updates on the gem store with in game updates of equal quality.

The idea behind GW2 was to have a game with no vertical progression. Instead the entire game would be based around a horizontal progression. Where the only things you would have to grind for where skin’s.

That’s fine I can understand taking the game in that direction. Instead of the main focus being armor which is easy to get it was getting skins. Having a rare, exclusive, good looking armor/weapon skin is the entire focus of the game. That is why people go for legendary.

Lately they have released all new skin sets on the GEM Store for 800 gem’s while releasing very little if any new skins to the player population. They have also released RNG based weapon skins and RNG based dye’s both cosmetic upgrades.

With the game revolving around cosmetics and not armor its self adding these items to the Gem store in such large quantity’s essential makes the game P2W. This is almost the equivalent of a standard MMO adding top tier armor that can only be obtained thought differentiate content to there in game store.

Maybe the focus should be switched on the gem store maybe they should add more stat item’s that are easily obtainable anyway to the gem store. Maybe a generic set of exotics for 800gems. That can be gotten for new alts or toon’s would be far more appropriate then the current trend of cosmetic items in this game.

Imo you dont know what you’re saying… is there anything that can kill a player in pvp in the gemstore? NONE so how is it pay to win?

And again there is the kill argument again. This is a PvE game. The goal is fluff, not killing.

Ravenmoon.5318:

So how exactly would you “win” with an unique armor SKIN? o.O

Do you even know what P2W means? Have you ever played a P2W game?

Go try World of Tanks, see if there is a difference between their cash shop and Gw2’s cash shop.

Not to mention you can get everything from Gw2’s store with in-game game.

What…the…hell…people? Don’t you have anything better in your lives than to moan about non-existing problems? Are you that much bored?

So how exactly would you “win” with an unique armor SKIN? o.O

Anet made fluff the goal. The unique armor skin IS the win!

It’s not litteraly pay 2 win is the PvE version of it.

Oow well why do I even bother. It’s explained multiple times but people keep repeating the same every time not even reading or trying to understand what other people say. They see the term P2W and thats it.

I had the same when I created a thread about F2P where I explained that I did not like the micro-transaction based focus in stead of expansion based income. I basically said. F2P games use that mechanic and GW1 used a real B2P where they generated income with the box-sales (including that of expansions).

however nobody even tried to understand it or tried discussing the subject. They just started to react that it’s not literally F2P because you had paid for the initial box. That was not even the subject of the thread.

@ OP. You can better rewrite this and leave the term P2W out because some people are just not smart enough to look at your story behind that and will only comment about the fact that it’s not P2W because gem-store items do not give you a bigger change of killing. That thats not what your saying or that it’s not what the thread is about does not even cross there mind. They see P2W and react purely and only on those 3 letters. P2W.

Ision.3207:

Actually, putting the t3 human cultural in the gem store is perfectly consistent with a typical vertical progression game like GW2.

In a horizontal progression game uniqueness and exclusivity are generally reserved for gear skins. The high-end skins are what take the most grind and/or effort. But as of November 2012 GW2 officially became a vertical progression game. And as such, it’s not the look of your gear that matters, but the stats on them. High-end gear is now defined by MAX stats, NOT by unique appearance.

And while it’s true that in games like WoW or LotRO (and now GW2) max stat gear typically also has unique skins as well, it’s also true that the appearance of that gear is merely a secondary reward soon to be rendered meaningless whenever the next tier of max stat gear is introduced.

So given that GW2 is in no way unique to the MMO genre, and merely represents the latest incarnation of typical vertical progression games, offering popular skins in the gem store is perfectly in-line with the games new (but traditional) philosophy.

OP, “Pay to Win” in this game, just like WoW, would be the introduction of higher-stat based gear in the gem store. What you’re thinking of is a horizontal progression game, but that’s not GW2.

They never put a reskinned HT3 set on the gem store, they put a reskinned HT3 skins set on the gem store. It did not come with HT3 stats. It was something you applied to your gear to keep your gear’s stats with the HT3 appearance. This is how skins work in GW2.

Also, WoW doesn’t have any P2W content in its core development levels. It’s P2P, which means you pay to play… at all. The only P2W content they have is at pvp brackets where one person’s expansion may be inferior to another’s. Additionally, they sell mounts and non-combat, non-battle pets for real world currency.

Horizontal progression is also unrelated to gear. Horizontal progression is using your character, without progressing in levels or stats, to continue battling through new content releases. Vertical progression ends at 80 with ascended gear.

Now, there has been vertical progression implemented in fractals with the new agony mechanics. At least… it seems that way.

Still, none of it is P2W

Now, when ANet puts a leaderboard in the Black Lion Trade for who has the most gold… trololololol

Winning is about completing content and stomping your enemies on the battlefield.

Looking cool/hot/amazing/fascinating while completing content and stomping your enemies on the battlefield just means you look cool/hot/amazing/fascinating while completing content and stomping your enemies on the battlefield.

Sabyne.6329:

The whining one seems to be the winning one in this game.
Joke aside, if you both look the way you want, then I’d say you’ve pretty much both won. ^^

W2W
Whine 2 Win? That made me chuckle a little, in a bit of a sad way.

GW2 isn’t P2W. I agree with others, if someone thinks GW2 is P2W then they don’t know what P2W actually means.

skins like the T3 light armor or a legendary skin won’t give you STAT advantage over other players so they should be put in the Gem Store.

Devata.6589:

And once again somebody keeps talking about the winning. It’s a PvE game it’s not about winning. And why would you stop playing if somebody else got better gear? You also stop playing if you get killed in a PvP match? You make no sense what so ever.

But then again, maybe it’s just to complicated for you to understand what OP is talking about. Thats oke, I don’t blame you, no hard feelings.

And if you understood the joke you would understand that I don’t care if some is decked out in fluff looking gear. What does that prove? What have they won the I are looking cool? Ever last person has pointed out to you that this is not P2W no matter if it’s on the PVP side of the PVE side.

It’s not really p2w (yet), but I am disappointed with the content updates so far; Villain Sue is a less than interesting character and has been really poorly implemented to create a less than interesting story.

If they ever add stat boosting items into the gem store; I’m gone. I really don’t care for a Nexon 2.0.

Brrrrrrrrrrr, Nexon. GW2 in my opinion has/is turned/turning into a who can look the coolest by means of gem store aquisitions for items that again is only my opinion to be not so cool looking for 90% of the items offered for the most outrageous prices, so, I would have to agree with the P2W analogy.

Devata.6589:

And again there is the kill argument again. This is a PvE game. The goal is fluff, not killing.

There is more killing in PvE than in PvP. Killing monsters is not your goal in game but that does not necessarily hold true for others.

It surely isn’t P2W in the sense of winning over some other player as looks are subjective, but i guess you could say that its winning in the sense of reaching the games goal. The endgame of gw2 is meant to be about the looks (at least it was meant to be that way) so i expected it to be about working towards cool skins.

Since the release of GW2 there hasn’t been one full armor set been released in the game apart from the gemstore (the achievement armors were the closest with 3 parts). For weapon skins it’s at least similar, we got a big bunch there, but the most are obtainable with black lion tickets (what i find i horrible system as it’s completely random if you get a ticket, even if you were willing to pay for it)

Apart from the Fractal weapons we haven’t realy gotten any skins to work towards to by doing special things, working towards skins mostly means farming the gold to buy the skins from the tp/convert gems to buy them from the gemstore and that is something i think is unhealty for the game (or am i the only one who doesn’t enjoy cof that much?)

I’m other of those who is happy with store right now. Armors from the dungeon, cultural, crafting or from the gem-shop, all share similar stats, so to play in the competitive matches, I’m not forced to pay. And I can win.

Victories depends of my skill, not for my wallet.

And the shop, even gives the chance to buy the gems with the game currency.

I’m not feeling any frustration for it. O.ò

Those WvW boosters are blatant Pay to win.

I buy 1k omega golems and pink the map in black pay to win.

I’m really sorry, but this thread is funny.
GW2 is not pay to win and is far from that and that is why I love it.

Also I use 1 gem item on all my 8 characters and they look amazing with use of normal/crafted/dungeon armors. It’s just a matter of taste.

Thinking that glowing like Christmas three is good for you is a matter of taste, but I think its basically bad for everyone. I enjoy my own look that makes me unique, not another clone of someone who uses full armor.

cryforthemoon.9326:

Devata.6589:

And once again somebody keeps talking about the winning. It’s a PvE game it’s not about winning. And why would you stop playing if somebody else got better gear? You also stop playing if you get killed in a PvP match? You make no sense what so ever.

But then again, maybe it’s just to complicated for you to understand what OP is talking about. Thats oke, I don’t blame you, no hard feelings.

And if you understood the joke you would understand that I don’t care if some is decked out in fluff looking gear. What does that prove? What have they won the I are looking cool? Ever last person has pointed out to you that this is not P2W no matter if it’s on the PVP side of the PVE side.

What has your personal opinion about not caring about fluff to do with anything? Some people don’t care about losing / dying in a fight, does that then also mean P2W does not exist in PvP games? No it doesn’t.

Yeah indeed everybody pointed out that this is not literally P2W, indeed. But then again, thats not what OP is saying. So the problem is that everybody keeps pointing out that it’s not literally P2W. However, just like P2W is bad for a game because of some reasons related to the game-play. What Anet is now doing with the gem-store is also bad for this game related to this game-play. Thats basically what OP is saying. But nobody is really reacting on that.

Like I said, he should rewrite it without using the term P2W. That might help. It would then still say the same but people would non only see the P2W and forget about the rest of the text.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

And again there is the kill argument again. This is a PvE game. The goal is fluff, not killing.

There is more killing in PvE than in PvP. Killing monsters is not your goal in game but that does not necessarily hold true for others.

There is indeed a lot of killing but with maybe the exception of a few bosses no the killing is not the goal, the loot that people can get from the kill is the goal in at least 95% of all kills.

By your logic, Devata, even Mmo with sub like wow is a P2W game. For example, they offer sometime the best looking mount only available in their cash shop, a cash shop that does not convert gold to… a currency. What is wow endgame all about? To obtain the best possible gearn both in pve and pvp you can get, raid/gladiator tittle, and MOUNTS!

Poplolita.2638:

By your logic, Devata, even Mmo with sub like wow is a P2W game. For example, they offer sometime the best looking mount only available in their cash shop, a cash shop that does not convert gold to… a currency. What is wow endgame all about? To obtain the best possible gearn both in pve and pvp you can get, raid/gladiator tittle, and MOUNTS!

Partly true. The big difference is that for example WoW used to have (don’t know about now) only a very small collection of items in the cash-shop and so for many people that does not even really count. Meanwhile they keep putting many of those items new into the game (game world) itself. Some very good looking.

In many micro-transaction based game you see that the cash-shop plays a much bigger role and they put a lot of those sort of items in the gem-store while adding less into the game itself. Best example might be mini’s. How many mini’s are in WoW available in the cash-shop and how many in the game itself. Now look add GW2.

It’s exactly that mentality why I hate F2P games. Because Anets name with GW1 for mainly generating income with expansions and GW2 asking money for the box (so it looked liked they would go a similar way with GW2) I had hopes for GW2. Sadly they also turned into that micro-transaction based income with all these sort of negative side-effects.

Because in those games the cash-shop does play a much lesser role it’s just counts less for people and there are still many many many more things to get in the game compared to what is available in the cahs-shop. But yeah those available in there usually belong to the best looking ones thats true.

Personally I don’t care because it’s such a small portion and for many it simply does not even really ‘counts’ but if somebody says that that should not be the case (such items in a cash-shop also not a few like in WoW) for similar reasons as here discussed then I would totally understand that.

Devata.6589:

But then again, maybe it’s just to complicated for you to understand what OP is talking about. Thats oke, I don’t blame you, no hard feelings.

And if you understood the joke you would understand that I don’t care if some is decked out in fluff looking gear. What does that prove? What have they won the I are looking cool? Ever last person has pointed out to you that this is not P2W no matter if it’s on the PVP side of the PVE side.

[/quote]

What has your personal opinion about not caring about fluff to do with anything? Some people don’t care about losing / dying in a fight, does that then also mean P2W does not exist in PvP games? No it doesn’t.

Yeah indeed everybody pointed out that this is not literally P2W, indeed. But then again, thats not what OP is saying. So the problem is that everybody keeps pointing out that it’s not literally P2W. However, just like P2W is bad for a game because of some reasons related to the game-play. What Anet is now doing with the gem-store is also bad for this game related to this game-play. Thats basically what OP is saying. But nobody is really reacting on that.

Like I said, he should rewrite it without using the term P2W. That might help. It would then still say the same but people would non only see the P2W and forget about the rest of the text.[/quote]

Because we as in me and the other posters are point out to you is that we don’t care. For many of us we just don’t care about fluff gear that adds no stats and that we can make are own gear in game.

If someone wants to by fluff gear in the gem shop good for them. None of us care. That is what we are trying to tell you and the OP. But again you keep on and on of how much it matters like it means something. We just don’t care that much about fluff gear as much as we do about just playing the game. The fluff gear is just icing on the cake.

But if the cake does not taste good then who cares how good the icing looks. If you really care about the fluff gear that much then you really don’t understand what P2W or why people play MMOs.

cryforthemoon.9326:

Devata.6589:

But then again, maybe it’s just to complicated for you to understand what OP is talking about. Thats oke, I don’t blame you, no hard feelings.

And if you understood the joke you would understand that I don’t care if some is decked out in fluff looking gear. What does that prove? What have they won the I are looking cool? Ever last person has pointed out to you that this is not P2W no matter if it’s on the PVP side of the PVE side.

What has your personal opinion about not caring about fluff to do with anything? Some people don’t care about losing / dying in a fight, does that then also mean P2W does not exist in PvP games? No it doesn’t.

Yeah indeed everybody pointed out that this is not literally P2W, indeed. But then again, thats not what OP is saying. So the problem is that everybody keeps pointing out that it’s not literally P2W. However, just like P2W is bad for a game because of some reasons related to the game-play. What Anet is now doing with the gem-store is also bad for this game related to this game-play. Thats basically what OP is saying. But nobody is really reacting on that.

Like I said, he should rewrite it without using the term P2W. That might help. It would then still say the same but people would non only see the P2W and forget about the rest of the text.[/quote]

Because we as in me and the other posters are point out to you is that we don’t care. For many of us we just don’t care about fluff gear that adds no stats and that we can make are own gear in game.

If someone wants to by fluff gear in the gem shop good for them. None of us care. That is what we are trying to tell you and the OP. But again you keep on and on of how much it matters like it means something. We just don’t care that much about fluff gear as much as we do about just playing the game. The fluff gear is just icing on the cake.

But if the cake does not taste good then who cares how good the icing looks. If you really care about the fluff gear that much then you really don’t understand what P2W or why people play MMOs.[/quote]

I said before that I personally don’t even care so much about this. I dislike what they are doing with the gem-store for other reasons. (all said in previous comments, not gonna repeat). But the fact that you or me do not care does not mean it can’t be a problem. If many people care it can still be a problem. The fact that some people might also not care about getting killed in games does also not mean that P2W can not be a problem.

So react on the thread, not on the fact if it’s P2W and that is exactly what many people are doing.

Devata.6589:

Poplolita.2638:

By your logic, Devata, even Mmo with sub like wow is a P2W game. For example, they offer sometime the best looking mount only available in their cash shop, a cash shop that does not convert gold to… a currency. What is wow endgame all about? To obtain the best possible gearn both in pve and pvp you can get, raid/gladiator tittle, and MOUNTS!

Partly true. The big difference is that for example WoW used to have (don’t know about now) only a very small collection of items in the cash-shop and so for many people that does not even really count. Meanwhile they keep putting many of those items new into the game (game world) itself. Some very good looking.

In many micro-transaction based game you see that the cash-shop plays a much bigger role and they put a lot of those sort of items in the gem-store while adding less into the game itself. Best example might be mini’s. How many mini’s are in WoW available in the cash-shop and how many in the game itself. Now look add GW2.

It’s exactly that mentality why I hate F2P games. Because Anets name with GW1 for mainly generating income with expansions and GW2 asking money for the box (so it looked liked they would go a similar way with GW2) I had hopes for GW2. Sadly they also turned into that micro-transaction based income with all these sort of negative side-effects.

Because in those games the cash-shop does play a much lesser role it’s just counts less for people and there are still many many many more things to get in the game compared to what is available in the cahs-shop. But yeah those available in there usually belong to the best looking ones thats true.

Personally I don’t care because it’s such a small portion and for many it simply does not even really ‘counts’ but if somebody says that that should not be the case (such items in a cash-shop also not a few like in WoW) for similar reasons as here discussed then I would totally understand that.

Guild wars 2 needs to make money in a way or another. They decided to add more item via gemstore than many other mmo with a sub, which is understandable. In fact, that’s exactly how a Buy to play game should work, it is perfectly fine with me. There is nothing to debate really.

I haven’t seen any of the replies so I’ll just post in response to the first post (not sure if OP made any other replies too).

Gw2 is NOT p2w. As far as skin means win? I don’t think so, skin can’t win you in PvE/PvP/WvW/dungeon. Also, as far as skin is concerned, BEAUTY IS IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER.

What that means is that, having a skin no one else has doesn’t mean WIN. In fact, some may consider it as LOSE.

However, P2W means more/better stat progression than other players. Even if you look like poop, if you can kill 5 players in 1 fell swoop because you bought something exclusive only thru real money, it means P2W.

Having “exclusive” skin that gets you killed with a whip of air is not P2W. Again, it is because skin is subjective, some likes it, others dont. In fact, I have seen posts of how ugly anet’s released skins are. In that case, that is definitely not a win, others consider those who bought it as loser: eventually, it’s P2L.

Devata.6589:

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

And again there is the kill argument again. This is a PvE game. The goal is fluff, not killing.

There is more killing in PvE than in PvP. Killing monsters is not your goal in game but that does not necessarily hold true for others.

There is indeed a lot of killing but with maybe the exception of a few bosses no the killing is not the goal, the loot that people can get from the kill is the goal in at least 95% of all kills.

Source ?