Guild Wars 2

Having played an actual p2w game, no.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Devata.6589:

Eventually it will be.. but you can transfer gold to gems so you can get everything anyway.

But to me thats not even the point. The main question to me is, do the micro-transactions influence the game in a negative way?

The answer for me clearly is yes (and thats simply because it’s the way Anet makes the money so nearly every patch has as goal selling more gems in stead of improving the game) so P2W or not, at this point the gem-store is bad for the game.

With that the idea that you help the game with buying gems is also flawed. Buying gems helps to get the game in a worse shape.

I agree. The game is suffering because new content is designed with the gem store as the focus, not the game. In games with a monthly sub you have artificial time gates such as once a week raiding to keep people around, but the quality of the content is high since it is what keeps people playing. With the gem store we see the in-game content suffering in a different way.

1.Speed of updates is prioritized over quality in order to get more items in the gem store
2.In-game rewards are of lower quality and are often the same item slot over and over to promote buying higher quality items in the gem store.
3. Expansions are ignored because low quality fast paced updates with no meaningful content provide the same income for a fraction of the work.
4. End-game rewards are generally grindy and shallow since they want you to get the gem store equivalent instead of earning it through skill/time.
5. RNG rules supreme because people always spend more on gambling than they do on one time purchases.

Now that i’ve seen both models I will certainly promote a monthly fee over this style of game.

Well I am also not a big fan of subscription based because there is always a timer over your head and you can’t just log in to have a look if you did not pay a sub-fee. But looking at the quality it is indeed better as the micro-transaction based games.

However there is a third alternative and that a is a true B2P model where the company released regular expansions (once every year / year and a half) an focuses on the sale of those expansion to generate there main income.

That is what GW1 use to do and they had a big name with that model as one of the main reasons. The mean reason I was interested in GW2 was exactly that reason and Anets good name. However now they turned to the micro-transaction model like almost all (F2P) mmo’s have these days what is very bad for the game. If I would be interested in that there would be many other games I could play.

However my favorite model is still a real B2P model where the company focuses of expansions to generate income. Best of to two worlds.

lol..

Pay-to-Win fashion contest, yes….

Pay-to-Win skill-wise, certainly not….

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

Eventually it will be.. but you can transfer gold to gems so you can get everything anyway.

But to me thats not even the point. The main question to me is, do the micro-transactions influence the game in a negative way?

The answer for me clearly is yes (and thats simply because it’s the way Anet makes the money so nearly every patch has as goal selling more gems in stead of improving the game) so P2W or not, at this point the gem-store is bad for the game.

With that the idea that you help the game with buying gems is also flawed. Buying gems helps to get the game in a worse shape.

Not sure how you come to your conclusions here. Microtransactions are 1) optional and 2) mainly cosmetic. So when you claim the Gem Store affects the game in a negative way, please explain how. The game updates content regardless if you buy Gems or not. Anet fixes bugs for everyone, not just people who buy Gems. And content themed Gem Store goods that are promoted with updates are still optional. Marjory’s dagger looked awesome, but I’m not forced to buy them.

I know of people who spent not a single penny on Gems. They converted in game Gold for in game Gems. Did that make them better players? Nope. Did it make them happy to have new cosmetic items? Sure. Don’t see the negative here.

As for people like me to buy Gems with RL currency. Did that make me a better player? Nope. Did it make me happy? Sure. Again, where are the negatives?

There are many types of players in this game. And among those players are people who have disposable income. If they choose to support Anet through microtransactions, that only helps everyone, since in reality, the game company is a business. And businesses exist to make money.

It has nothing to do with the fact if the gem-items make the person a better player or whatever. It’s simply how it effects the decisions made when developing the game / patches.

I did explain that before in this threas. Have a look at this post, hope that will clear up for you what I am talking about:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-Becoming-P2W/first#post3267525

And ZudetGambeous.9573 also gives some nice examples:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-Becoming-P2W/page/3#post3302424

“If they choose to support Anet through microtransactions, that only helps everyone, since in reality, the game company is a business. And businesses exist to make money.”

I totally agree they need to make money.

There are however multiple ways of making money and focusing on selling expansions is one of them. Thats what they did in GW1 (and is still very feasible for GW2) and thats for me the preferred option as it does not effect the game in the negative way it does now.

But no paying them this way does not help everyone because it’s more reason for Anet to keep focusing on the micro-transactions and so it keeps influencing the game in a negative way. So it’s not helping it’s doing the opposite. Making the game worse.

azizul.8469:

lol..

Pay-to-Win fashion contest, yes….

Pay-to-Win skill-wise, certainly not….

P2W is never skill-wise. You can’t pay for skills. You mean stats-wise.

This game is not and will not be P2W at any point during its life. I think you misunderstand the difference between paying real money to get overpowered stuff and paying for cosmetic items that bring nothing else more to one’s character.

Unless you secretly gain something for having a pretty character in the game >.>

If I don’t like your character’s look…does that mean you’ve lost to me?

angelpaladin.7921:

With the game revolving around cosmetics and not armor its self adding these items to the Gem store in such large quantity’s essential makes the game P2W. This is almost the equivalent of a standard MMO adding top tier armor that can only be obtained thought differentiate content to there in game store.

fail logic is fail.

I got my main character a combination of armor skin that i currently like the most. A WvW coat bought with badges, beginners legs and CM dungeon boots bought with tokens. Is this expensive? no.

But according to your logic, i won the game by getting the best i could get for my tastes and it didnt cost me anything.

Retsuko.2035:

angelpaladin.7921:

With the game revolving around cosmetics and not armor its self adding these items to the Gem store in such large quantity’s essential makes the game P2W. This is almost the equivalent of a standard MMO adding top tier armor that can only be obtained thought differentiate content to there in game store.

fail logic is fail.

I got my main character a combination of armor skin that i currently like the most. A WvW coat bought with badges, beginners legs and CM dungeon boots bought with tokens. Is this expensive? no.

But according to your logic, i won the game by getting the best i could get for my tastes and it didnt cost me anything.

What the OP was trying to say is, since gw2 is revolved around cosmetic items as end game and end game items are pretty much bought with real money (given the gold to gem conversion rate) it is essentially P2W from a cosmetic perspective. Did that help you understand what he was trying to say more?

To further add, the very existence of gem to gold conversion makes this game P2W if y ou look at it from a cosmetic perspective.

Lafiel.9372:

Retsuko.2035:

angelpaladin.7921:

With the game revolving around cosmetics and not armor its self adding these items to the Gem store in such large quantity’s essential makes the game P2W. This is almost the equivalent of a standard MMO adding top tier armor that can only be obtained thought differentiate content to there in game store.

fail logic is fail.

I got my main character a combination of armor skin that i currently like the most. A WvW coat bought with badges, beginners legs and CM dungeon boots bought with tokens. Is this expensive? no.

But according to your logic, i won the game by getting the best i could get for my tastes and it didnt cost me anything.

What the OP was trying to say is, since gw2 is revolved around cosmetic items as end game and end game items are pretty much bought with real money (given the gold to gem conversion rate) it is essentially P2W from a cosmetic perspective. Did that help you understand what he was trying to say more?

To further add, the very existence of gem to gold conversion makes this game P2W if y ou look at it from a cosmetic perspective.

You guys are arguing semantics just to be able to use the term P2W. There is nothing to argue. P2W means you pay money to win. Its a self-explanatory term. You pay money for an advantage over other people. Noone can gain any stat advantage over anyone else via the gemstore. End of story.
Noone buying fashion, skins, backpacks, overly flashy mining picks, fancy finishers or anything from the gemstore has any advantage over you. Prettiness is not a competition in this game. There is no ranking for it, there is no advantage to being prettier. The term pay to win does not apply. Play an actual P2W game and then argue using the term here.

Whatever you guys are saying about a prettiness factor being a ‘win scenario’ needs some new term applied to it. Because you’re paying to be pretty, not to win.

MrRuin.9740:

Because you’re paying to be pretty

and perhaps not even that because gemstore options are not necessarily “prettier” than in game options.

Weird, before the game went out, I remember a lot of people (me included) talk about how we would love extra cosmetic options purchasable on the gemstore (instead of boosters, skillpacks, etc. – I don’t know, I never played a p2w game).

… I still don’t get how it is a bad thing to offer special skins on the Gemstore, particularly considering how many armors are already in the game (not purchasable through the gemstore). I might object when one day, we have far more (and prettier) options on the gemstore, but we are a long way from that – and it is still possible to pay for those options using ingame gold made by actually playing the game.
So what exactly is your problem again?

Onisuo.8607:

What exactly do you win for looking pretty in guild wars 2? Are you saying that all I have to do is buy pretty armor from the gemstore to win?

Pay2Win what?

You can exchange gems for gold and buy a full exotic set.

Zoid.2568:

Onisuo.8607:

What exactly do you win for looking pretty in guild wars 2? Are you saying that all I have to do is buy pretty armor from the gemstore to win?

Pay2Win what?

You can exchange gems for gold and buy a full exotic set.

You can. You don’t need to. Big difference.

Lafiel.9372:

What the OP was trying to say is, since gw2 is revolved around cosmetic items as end game and end game items are pretty much bought with real money (given the gold to gem conversion rate) it is essentially P2W from a cosmetic perspective. Did that help you understand what he was trying to say more?

To further add, the very existence of gem to gold conversion makes this game P2W if y ou look at it from a cosmetic perspective.

Wait, how are the skins end-game items again? My level 15 character has gem store skins on, does that mean she’s level 80 in BiS now?!?!!?!!?!?!?!!?111?!!/11 AWESOME SHE WINS THE GAME

Full exotics are ridiculously easy to get. Hell, if you don’t level up a craft whilst leveling and just sell all the crafting materials you collect, you should have more then enough money for a full set of them right off the bat.

My Guardian was my very first character and it took me three days from dinging 80 to get a set of exotics. And that was well before the “Here, have a giant pile of WvW marks just for getting achievement points” thing.

Heck, you should have enough Karma just from doing stuff while leveling for a full set from any of the Orr temples; might not be the stat line you specifically want, but it’ll certainly be good enough to close the gap in any content you really want to do, long enough for you to farm the cash to get the stat line you specifically want.

This game is completely not P2W.

Zoid.2568:

You can exchange gems for gold and buy a full exotic set.

You’re really reaching. Considering you can farm out a full exotic set in a matter of days, less depending on your playing habits, and the person that outright bought it will still have no stat advantage over you.
I have a feeling many of you claiming the P2W scenario have never played a P2W MMO.
One where the highest tier gear is only available in the cashshop and its stat increases are hugely significant over anything that can be earned in game. And this gear costs hundreds, in some cases thousands of dollars (USD). That’s P2W. And its not an exaggeration. Look at games published by PWE. Their flagship game has the highest tier endgame gear direct in the cashshop as its only method of acquisition. This gear is hugely more powerful than what’s farmable in game. And it costs somewhere around $1200USD to buy it. Plus the method to ‘refine’ this gear to even higher and more devastating stats is also only in the cashshop and costs hundreds more to max refine. You can then take this gear and smash anyones face in PvP and steamroll any PvE when any player not able to charge would struggle or fall to being one-shot in PvP everytime they encounter a cashshop player.
You dump huge amounts of real money into a game to instantly be better than anyone who cannot charge and have a massive stat advantage over them, that they can never achieve in the game itself.
There is nothing in GW2 that falls into P2W. Cosmetics are not winning anything. Conveniences are not winning anything.

MrRuin.9740:

Zoid.2568:

You can exchange gems for gold and buy a full exotic set.

You’re really reaching. Considering you can farm out a full exotic set in a matter of days, less depending on your playing habits, and the person that outright bought it will still have no stat advantage over you.
I have a feeling many of you claiming the P2W scenario have never played a P2W MMO.
One where the highest tier gear is only available in the cashshop and its stat increases are hugely significant over anything that can be earned in game. And this gear costs hundreds, in some cases thousands of dollars (USD). That’s P2W. And its not an exaggeration. Look at games published by PWE. Their flagship game has the highest tier endgame gear direct in the cashshop as its only method of acquisition. This gear is hugely more powerful than what’s farmable in game. And it costs somewhere around $1200USD to buy it. Plus the method to ‘refine’ this gear to even higher and more devastating stats is also only in the cashshop and costs hundreds more to max refine. You can then take this gear and smash anyones face in PvP and steamroll any PvE when any player not able to charge would struggle or fall to being one-shot in PvP everytime they encounter a cashshop player.
You dump huge amounts of real money into a game to instantly be better than anyone who cannot charge and have a massive stat advantage over them, that they can never achieve in the game itself.
There is nothing in GW2 that falls into P2W. Cosmetics are not winning anything. Conveniences are not winning anything.

It’s really simple. He can’t afford to spend money on the gemstore, he wants items from the gemstore, he sees others getting items on the gemstore he wants but can’t afford, so now he blasts the system and says it’s P2W. In reality he is really only saying that he doesn’t think its fair people can spend money to get something he can’t get. The P2W thing is just a buzzword to get people talking.

If by win you mean looking fabulous the yes, it is pay to win.

MrRuin.9740:

Zoid.2568:

You can exchange gems for gold and buy a full exotic set.

You’re really reaching. Considering you can farm out a full exotic set in a matter of days, less depending on your playing habits, and the person that outright bought it will still have no stat advantage over you.
I have a feeling many of you claiming the P2W scenario have never played a P2W MMO.
One where the highest tier gear is only available in the cashshop and its stat increases are hugely significant over anything that can be earned in game. And this gear costs hundreds, in some cases thousands of dollars (USD). That’s P2W. And its not an exaggeration. Look at games published by PWE. Their flagship game has the highest tier endgame gear direct in the cashshop as its only method of acquisition. This gear is hugely more powerful than what’s farmable in game. And it costs somewhere around $1200USD to buy it. Plus the method to ‘refine’ this gear to even higher and more devastating stats is also only in the cashshop and costs hundreds more to max refine. You can then take this gear and smash anyones face in PvP and steamroll any PvE when any player not able to charge would struggle or fall to being one-shot in PvP everytime they encounter a cashshop player.
You dump huge amounts of real money into a game to instantly be better than anyone who cannot charge and have a massive stat advantage over them, that they can never achieve in the game itself.
There is nothing in GW2 that falls into P2W. Cosmetics are not winning anything. Conveniences are not winning anything.

I hate to ruin (pun intended) your day, but you seem out of the loop to what is coming and we are not in cosmetic Kansas anymore.

-all legendary gear will have ascended stats and you will be able to change those stats out of combat.

-you are and will be able to continue to buy all higher stat legendaries on the market.

-the devs are in the process of making it easier to obtain precursors and legendaries, so it will lower the prices on the market and make purchasing bis gear a more attractive option than grinding for them.

-eventually you will see players just buying the best gear when they hit max level. so yes, you will be able to dump huge amounts of real money into this game to instantly have better stats than most players. yes, this is intentional. yes, they want your money. yes, there will be a pay 2 have the highest stats option because it generates profit for anet.

-there will be level increases and higher stat gear introduced in the future so this money making cycle will continue.

chuckle

Having played several “free to play” pay to win games….

Yeah, GW2 isn’t even close. Not by a long shot. Those that are under the impression that this is a “pay to win” game have not truly played one.

Go try Ministry of War or similar and then talk to me about “pay to win.”

Swagger.1459:

1.the devs are in the process of making it easier to obtain precursors and legendaries, so it will lower the prices on the market and make purchasing bis gear a more attractive option than grinding for them.

2. there will be level increases and higher stat gear introduced in the future so this money making cycle will continue.

1. There are 2 main flaws with this argument. Firstly, we don’t know the procedure for obtaining precursors. They never said they’re going to make it easier, they just said its going to be an alternative progressive method.

You could argue that it means there will be more precursors on the market, but we have no idea how many people will use this new method (T7 mats are needed for Ascended items as well), and there will be a lot of people switching from dumping rares/exotics in the MF to using this method, thus offsetting its effects.

Secondly, if it becomes more attractive to buy Legendaries than make them, then supply would fall because less people would make them, making demand -. You know the rest.

As a side argument. Are you sure busting out hundreds of dollars for BiS pixels, especially when Ascended items have the same stats is actually a valid option for most people?

2. They only said they could increase the level cap, not that they would. They also specifically said there is no plans for more tiers of gear, but they’ll introduce ways to ‘evolve’ the existing tiers.

MrRuin.9740:

Noone can gain any stat advantage over anyone else via the gemstore. End of story.
Noone buying fashion, skins, backpacks, overly flashy mining picks, fancy finishers or anything from the gemstore has any advantage over you.

Play an actual P2W game and then argue using the term here.

Not actually true:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strength_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_Booster

You can most certainly use the gemstore to gain a 10% armor boost, a 5% damage boost and a 15% run speed boost over other players who don’t use the gem store.

Pay money → get boosters → go to WvW → beat players without boosters → win

P2W, no semantics needed, just money and crushing your opponents. sPvP does remain free of P2W however.

MrRuin.9740:

Lafiel.9372:

Retsuko.2035:

angelpaladin.7921:

With the game revolving around cosmetics and not armor its self adding these items to the Gem store in such large quantity’s essential makes the game P2W. This is almost the equivalent of a standard MMO adding top tier armor that can only be obtained thought differentiate content to there in game store.

fail logic is fail.

I got my main character a combination of armor skin that i currently like the most. A WvW coat bought with badges, beginners legs and CM dungeon boots bought with tokens. Is this expensive? no.

But according to your logic, i won the game by getting the best i could get for my tastes and it didnt cost me anything.

What the OP was trying to say is, since gw2 is revolved around cosmetic items as end game and end game items are pretty much bought with real money (given the gold to gem conversion rate) it is essentially P2W from a cosmetic perspective. Did that help you understand what he was trying to say more?

To further add, the very existence of gem to gold conversion makes this game P2W if y ou look at it from a cosmetic perspective.

You guys are arguing semantics just to be able to use the term P2W. There is nothing to argue. P2W means you pay money to win. Its a self-explanatory term. You pay money for an advantage over other people. Noone can gain any stat advantage over anyone else via the gemstore. End of story.
Noone buying fashion, skins, backpacks, overly flashy mining picks, fancy finishers or anything from the gemstore has any advantage over you. Prettiness is not a competition in this game. There is no ranking for it, there is no advantage to being prettier. The term pay to win does not apply. Play an actual P2W game and then argue using the term here.

Whatever you guys are saying about a prettiness factor being a ‘win scenario’ needs some new term applied to it. Because you’re paying to be pretty, not to win.

They don’t use semantics just to be able to use the term P2W. They try to explains / talk about something that has no defined name yet. However while not it being P2W it has some similarities so thats why they are referring to that.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

MrRuin.9740:

Noone can gain any stat advantage over anyone else via the gemstore. End of story.
Noone buying fashion, skins, backpacks, overly flashy mining picks, fancy finishers or anything from the gemstore has any advantage over you.

Play an actual P2W game and then argue using the term here.

Not actually true:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strength_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_Booster

You can most certainly use the gemstore to gain a 10% armor boost, a 5% damage boost and a 15% run speed boost over other players who don’t use the gem store.

Pay money -> get boosters -> go to WvW -> beat players without boosters -> win

P2W, no semantics needed, just money and crushing your opponents. sPvP does remain free of P2W however.

Many would argue that PvE doesn’t matter. After all, what are you ‘winning’? I won’t get into that specific argument, since it’s all really a matter of opinion for that one.

Boosters, while yes you can purchase them with real money…. you can also purchase them via in-game gold too. Just convert gold to gems and tada, you can buy all the same stuff.

Additionally you can get those boosters as drops in the game…map completion, daily completion, monthly completion, personal story completion, random drops can all contain both black lion chests and black lion keys which contain those boosters. (A common drop from them, so you’re pretty much guaranteed one if you open a chest)

It’s not like they are limited to the cash shop, and they are not locked behind real money purchases thus limiting who can access them. They are readily obtainable for the general playerbase if they so choose.

Using WvW is not a very good example. A skilled, unboosted played, will wipe the floor with a boosted less skilled player pretty much every time. Even in an even match up of skill, the person with the boosts is not guaranteed the win. There is so much more to it than just doing more damage.

smeen.4237:

Zoid.2568:

Onisuo.8607:

What exactly do you win for looking pretty in guild wars 2? Are you saying that all I have to do is buy pretty armor from the gemstore to win?

Pay2Win what?

You can exchange gems for gold and buy a full exotic set.

You can. You don’t need to. Big difference.

You can exchange gold for gems but you can’t buy exotics for gems.
You can exchange gems for gold and buy exotics for gold.
That’s why it’s called P2W.

Not that i care. But please don’t be ignorant towards something that is clear.
I have faith in humanity.

It’s not pay to win. It’s pay to skin.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

MrRuin.9740:

Noone can gain any stat advantage over anyone else via the gemstore. End of story.
Noone buying fashion, skins, backpacks, overly flashy mining picks, fancy finishers or anything from the gemstore has any advantage over you.

Play an actual P2W game and then argue using the term here.

Not actually true:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strength_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_Booster

You can most certainly use the gemstore to gain a 10% armor boost, a 5% damage boost and a 15% run speed boost over other players who don’t use the gem store.

Pay money -> get boosters -> go to WvW -> beat players without boosters -> win

P2W, no semantics needed, just money and crushing your opponents. sPvP does remain free of P2W however.

Many would argue that PvE doesn’t matter. After all, what are you ‘winning’? I won’t get into that specific argument, since it’s all really a matter of opinion for that one.

Boosters, while yes you can purchase them with real money…. you can also purchase them via in-game gold too. Just convert gold to gems and tada, you can buy all the same stuff.

Additionally you can get those boosters as drops in the game…map completion, daily completion, monthly completion, personal story completion, random drops can all contain both black lion chests and black lion keys which contain those boosters. (A common drop from them, so you’re pretty much guaranteed one if you open a chest)

It’s not like they are limited to the cash shop, and they are not locked behind real money purchases thus limiting who can access them. They are readily obtainable for the general playerbase if they so choose.

Using WvW is not a very good example. A skilled, unboosted played, will wipe the floor with a boosted less skilled player pretty much every time. Even in an even match up of skill, the person with the boosts is not guaranteed the win. There is so much more to it than just doing more damage.

Haha I predicted your “no it’s not P2W because you can transfer gold to gems” a few post ago: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-Becoming-P2W/page/3#post3301582

Funny.

Of course, getting them with money is much easier then farming the gold so it is not really true and those keys have a extremely low drop change.

Money gives you a clear advantage with those items because you don’t have to farm ages for it to get it. Many F2P P2W games have the option to get similar items in-game. The difference is how hard it is to get them ingame against how easy it is with money. Same is here.

Anyway, I think some people (like you) will defend almost anything so it does not really mater and P2W or nog, the influence the gem-store focus has on the game was bad, is bad and will stay bad as long as the that focus remains.

Oow yeah and that a skilled player is still able to win that is also in all the P2W games. If you have far superior armor or weapons but keep missing the person in lesser armor he can beat you. However the question is, what s the outcome when you put 2 just as skilled persons or maybe slightly differed skilled persons against each other.

You know, you don’t have to defend Anet for everything. It’s perfectly fine to also disagree even as a fan. You can say.. “well those 3 boosters are indeed bad but except for those..”. Blind love is always a bad adviser.

As a true fan you should even point out the mistakes. Else the product you love so much end up being a very very bad product. If I was from a rival company I would not send somebody to point out all the mistakes, I would send somebody to tell how everything was great and to dismiss all bad decisions made by the developer.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Boosters, while yes you can purchase them with real money…. you can also purchase them via in-game gold too. Just convert gold to gems and tada, you can buy all the same stuff.

So would it be fine if permanent stat boost was sold in the gemstore because you can convert gold to gems?

Swagger.1459:

-eventually you will see players just buying the best gear when they hit max level. so yes, you will be able to dump huge amounts of real money into this game to instantly have better stats than most players. yes, this is intentional. yes, they want your money. yes, there will be a pay 2 have the highest stats option because it generates profit for anet.

-there will be level increases and higher stat gear introduced in the future so this money making cycle will continue.

I think you underestimate how many people absolutely do not even consider buying gems to convert to gold an option. So if you are implying that making precursors more available will mean legendaries will be cheaper and thus people will just buy gems to convert to gold to buy them, then you, sir, have not thought it through.

Last I checked 20$ = 80g. This obviously fluctuates on the market. Let’s say a legendary costs 2000g right now, that’s roughly $500. IF precursors become so plentiful that legendary supply skyrockets and prices fall to let’s say 1200g, that’s still $300 at current exchange rates for someone to buy a legendary. I think it’s fair to say that the typical player of GW2 will never even consider dropping that kind of money for one item. The ones that do can already afford the $500 it would currently cost to get one, so I think there would be absolutely no change. The only thing you will see is more people actually getting their legendaries. The ones, like me, who have literally every Gift you need minus the precursor. Plus the more people convert gems to gold, the lower the gem to gold exchange rate gets, making it even more expensive to buy with gems.

I just don’t think it will impact things the way you think it will.

Devata.6589:

Haha I predicted your “no it’s not P2W because you can transfer gold to gems” a few post ago: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-Becoming-P2W/page/3#post3301582

Funny.

Of course, getting them with money is much easier then farming the gold so it is not really true and those keys have a extremely low drop change.

Money gives you a clear advantage with those items because you don’t have to farm ages for it to get it. Many F2P P2W games have the option to get similar items in-game. The difference is how hard it is to get them ingame against how easy it is with money. Same is here.

Anyway, I think some people (like you) will defend almost anything so it does not really mater and P2W or nog, the influence the gem-store focus has on the game was bad, is bad and will stay bad as long as the that focus remains.

And you will argue simply for the sake of arguing… I knew this simply when you opted to post in the thread.

Those that play hours upon hours a day tend to have quite a bit of gold, which if they so choose, they can convert to purchase the boosters. Where as people that play fewer hours, but have “lives,” have less in game gold and potentially have more actual cash which they can use instead.

Technically both of those scenarios have a clear advantage over someone that can’t play for hours, yet does not have significant disposable income.

This still does not make the game pay to win. Not even close. Because the person in each of those scenarios can still do everything in the pve setting. Without paying a dime, if they so choose. Sure, boosters might make it faster, but that is a convenience, nothing more.

Pay to win gives paying players a clear advantage, not some piddly imagined advantage. P2W would be having a gear tier above ascended and only having it available via real money (no gold to gems conversions allowed) Not being able to obtain BiS items unless you pay real money for them. Being able to purchase addition stat options or slots in the pvp setting, giving you a distinct advantage over non paying pvpers. These are p2w things…. having a 5% dmg reduction boost for an hour, in pve because even in exotics you can’t survive isn’t an advantage, it’s sad.

Now, that said, do they sometimes seemingly push the cash store too forcefully? Sure. I won’t deny that sometimes the emphasis on the gemstore is a bit much. I’ve said that several time before in other threads. However, having an emphasis on the gem store does not make a game “pay to win.” Just means they have a focus on selling you stuff….

@ Lanphear

I hope you mean “discretionary income.”

IndigoSundown.5419:

@ Lanphear

I hope you mean “discretionary income.”

Either works, technically. Some people do opt to fund a gaming habit over paying a bill. However, the larger “disposable income” the more likely the person is to have some “discretionary income.” Where as someone with less “disposable” income would be less likely to have free money to spend.

I was simply considering the overall income, not specifically just what remained after bills and such were paid due to different people having different priorities in life.

Somehow you’ve confused buying skins.. for winning ? I…can’t even begin to comprehend how you arrived at that conclusion. Unless these skins have some hidden “I win” button that lets you win at everything you do. If “winning” for you is how your character looks, maybe go play some ragnarok online or maple story.

Ecole.2349:

Somehow you’ve confused buying skins.. for winning ? I…can’t even begin to comprehend how you arrived at that conclusion. Unless these skins have some hidden “I win” button that lets you win at everything you do. If “winning” for you is how your character looks, maybe go play some ragnarok online or maple story.

i used to play maplestory, and i say this game is p2w too. just in a different concept instead of stats. i think you are the one whos confused about “winning”

Swagger.1459:

I hate to ruin (pun intended) your day, but you seem out of the loop to what is coming and we are not in cosmetic Kansas anymore.

-all legendary gear will have ascended stats and you will be able to change those stats out of combat.

-you are and will be able to continue to buy all higher stat legendaries on the market.

-the devs are in the process of making it easier to obtain precursors and legendaries, so it will lower the prices on the market and make purchasing bis gear a more attractive option than grinding for them.

-eventually you will see players just buying the best gear when they hit max level. so yes, you will be able to dump huge amounts of real money into this game to instantly have better stats than most players. yes, this is intentional. yes, they want your money. yes, there will be a pay 2 have the highest stats option because it generates profit for anet.

-there will be level increases and higher stat gear introduced in the future so this money making cycle will continue.

Doesn’t ruin my day. Because you’re still wrong. You obviously don’t understand a P2W system and have never played one, because this is truly grasping to label GW2 as P2W for whatever reason or motive.
If you buy a legendary now and I farm ascended…what do you have that I don’t? A flashy skin and a convenience of stat swapping. Thats it. And you cut a little bit of time off the actual aquisition of it. You haven’t paid to win. You have paid for convenience. That legendary isn’t going to outperform anything I can farm in game at a substantially less cost. It isn’t going to turn the tide on any fight or win you anything more.
You don’t understand the concept of a truly cashshop dependant gearing system. You would be right if Legendary offered lets say a 100%+ boost in all stats and dmg over ascended and there was no way to farm an equivalent in game. But it doesn’t. Legendary gives you nothing game changing over anything farmable in game. Its gives you flashiness and convenience. Also known as fluff.
Try playing a P2W game and trying to compete in it, then see how you feel about Anets cashshop.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Not actually true:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strength_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_Booster

You can most certainly use the gemstore to gain a 10% armor boost, a 5% damage boost and a 15% run speed boost over other players who don’t use the gem store.

Pay money -> get boosters -> go to WvW -> beat players without boosters -> win

P2W, no semantics needed, just money and crushing your opponents. sPvP does remain free of P2W however.

And this, well I hope you were joking. Cause if you’re reaching this far into trying to label GW2 as P2W, I have no idea what your motives of blindly wanting to label it as such would even be.

You’ve never been in a typical Korean grind-fest MMO before have you?

ANET is very consistent with their non-P2W policy and really, a nice armor skin is more of a luxury than a necessity. Unless those armors came with stats above Exotic level, then your claim has no defense. It’s a subscription-free game so the fact that they’re making money off the aesthetics while actively adding new content every 2~4 weeks is one of the reasons I came back to this game. It’s a good..no, it’s a GREAT business model.

I guess no matter how well you do things and try your hardest to please the audience, people will always find something to nit-pick and B*/complain about.

MrRuin.9740:

Swagger.1459:

I hate to ruin (pun intended) your day, but you seem out of the loop to what is coming and we are not in cosmetic Kansas anymore.

-all legendary gear will have ascended stats and you will be able to change those stats out of combat.

-you are and will be able to continue to buy all higher stat legendaries on the market.

-the devs are in the process of making it easier to obtain precursors and legendaries, so it will lower the prices on the market and make purchasing bis gear a more attractive option than grinding for them.

-eventually you will see players just buying the best gear when they hit max level. so yes, you will be able to dump huge amounts of real money into this game to instantly have better stats than most players. yes, this is intentional. yes, they want your money. yes, there will be a pay 2 have the highest stats option because it generates profit for anet.

-there will be level increases and higher stat gear introduced in the future so this money making cycle will continue.

Doesn’t ruin my day. Because you’re still wrong. You obviously don’t understand a P2W system and have never played one, because this is truly grasping to label GW2 as P2W for whatever reason or motive.
If you buy a legendary now and I farm ascended…what do you have that I don’t? A flashy skin and a convenience of stat swapping. Thats it. And you cut a little bit of time off the actual aquisition of it. You haven’t paid to win. You have paid for convenience. That legendary isn’t going to outperform anything I can farm in game at a substantially less cost. It isn’t going to turn the tide on any fight or win you anything more.
You don’t understand the concept of a truly cashshop dependant gearing system. You would be right if Legendary offered lets say a 100%+ boost in all stats and dmg over ascended and there was no way to farm an equivalent in game. But it doesn’t. Legendary gives you nothing game changing over anything farmable in game. Its gives you flashiness and convenience. Also known as fluff.
Try playing a P2W game and trying to compete in it, then see how you feel about Anets cashshop.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Not actually true:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strength_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_Booster
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_Booster

You can most certainly use the gemstore to gain a 10% armor boost, a 5% damage boost and a 15% run speed boost over other players who don’t use the gem store.

Pay money -> get boosters -> go to WvW -> beat players without boosters -> win

P2W, no semantics needed, just money and crushing your opponents. sPvP does remain free of P2W however.

And this, well I hope you were joking. Cause if you’re reaching this far into trying to label GW2 as P2W, I have no idea what your motives of blindly wanting to label it as such would even be.

your logic is flawed, “what do you have that I don’t? A flashy skin and a convenience of stat swapping”

in other p2w game, "what do you have that I don’t? " higher number, that’s it.

you are confused don’t you, this game is a skin game, people do exactly the same, pay with real money, farm, grind, but for skins instead of stats. tell me how having a super expensive skins in this skin heavy game is different from a super good stat gear in another stats heavy game.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Devata.6589:

Haha I predicted your “no it’s not P2W because you can transfer gold to gems” a few post ago: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-Becoming-P2W/page/3#post3301582

Funny.

Of course, getting them with money is much easier then farming the gold so it is not really true and those keys have a extremely low drop change.

Money gives you a clear advantage with those items because you don’t have to farm ages for it to get it. Many F2P P2W games have the option to get similar items in-game. The difference is how hard it is to get them ingame against how easy it is with money. Same is here.

Anyway, I think some people (like you) will defend almost anything so it does not really mater and P2W or nog, the influence the gem-store focus has on the game was bad, is bad and will stay bad as long as the that focus remains.

And you will argue simply for the sake of arguing… I knew this simply when you opted to post in the thread.

Those that play hours upon hours a day tend to have quite a bit of gold, which if they so choose, they can convert to purchase the boosters. Where as people that play fewer hours, but have “lives,” have less in game gold and potentially have more actual cash which they can use instead.

Technically both of those scenarios have a clear advantage over someone that can’t play for hours, yet does not have significant disposable income.

This still does not make the game pay to win. Not even close. Because the person in each of those scenarios can still do everything in the pve setting. Without paying a dime, if they so choose. Sure, boosters might make it faster, but that is a convenience, nothing more.

Pay to win gives paying players a clear advantage, not some piddly imagined advantage. P2W would be having a gear tier above ascended and only having it available via real money (no gold to gems conversions allowed) Not being able to obtain BiS items unless you pay real money for them. Being able to purchase addition stat options or slots in the pvp setting, giving you a distinct advantage over non paying pvpers. These are p2w things…. having a 5% dmg reduction boost for an hour, in pve because even in exotics you can’t survive isn’t an advantage, it’s sad.

Now, that said, do they sometimes seemingly push the cash store too forcefully? Sure. I won’t deny that sometimes the emphasis on the gemstore is a bit much. I’ve said that several time before in other threads. However, having an emphasis on the gem store does not make a game “pay to win.” Just means they have a focus on selling you stuff….

And you will argue simply for the sake of arguing… I knew this simply when you opted to post in the thread.

So that means you are also here simply to argue simply for the sake of arguing? As you came to this thread.

No I go to specific threads. Mainly those related to the living story ot te gem-store.

If I would argue simply for the sake of arguing I could go to every thread.

“Technically both of those scenarios have a clear advantage over someone that can’t play for hours, yet does not have significant disposable income.
This still does not make the game pay to win.”

You just turned almost all games known for being P2W into non P2W games because most of the games known as P2W have some ingame way to get the BiS items (usually with a very long grind). So what are we then arguing about? P2W? Whats that. Almost no games (according to your definition) are P2W.

Still it stays funny that I predicted your comment in my apparently argue just to argue comment.

Oow and just for the record. While I do understand OP’s points and I agree with what he is trying to say (what is not.. this game is a real P2W game) thats not my personal problem with the gem-store. My problem with it is that Anet is focusing on selling gems and the game content is influenced (in my opinion in a bad way) because of that focus. I discussed multiple examples in a previous post. I would prefer them focusing on expansions to generate incomes. That influences the game in another way and in my opinion most likely in a better way.

Lighter.5631:

Ecole.2349:

Somehow you’ve confused buying skins.. for winning ? I…can’t even begin to comprehend how you arrived at that conclusion. Unless these skins have some hidden “I win” button that lets you win at everything you do. If “winning” for you is how your character looks, maybe go play some ragnarok online or maple story.

i used to play maplestory, and i say this game is p2w too. just in a different concept instead of stats. i think you are the one whos confused about “winning”

Woow I loved your comment and comparison with maplestory.

Thats an example of how it should not be because maplestory is a form of cosmetic P2W you say? And who is responsible for those decisions? Luckily we have somebody who will make much better decisions for GW2.. oow wait:

Have a read: http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment

Devata.6589:

“Technically both of those scenarios have a clear advantage over someone that can’t play for hours, yet does not have significant disposable income.
This still does not make the game pay to win.”

You just turned almost all games known for being P2W into non P2W games so what are we then arguing about? P2W? Whats that. Almost no games (according to your definition) are P2W.

Still it stays funny that I predicted your comment in my apparently argue just to argue comment.

Actually, I did expound upon what pay to win is further on in my response.

Ministry of War is a “pay to win” game for example. You cannot get the top level heroes needed to compete unless you purchase them. You cannot get the items needed to compete in the daily timed zone conquests unless you purchase them with real money. In this type of game, unless you’re paying money you are nothing more than a farm for the paying players. Fodder.

Kingdom Corps is a pay to win game. You cannot get the sheer number of top level cards necessary to remain competitive unless you’re shoveling money into the game (and even then, the payout is amazingly slim, and only those with large wallets truly get anywhere).

HellFire is a pay to win game. Kitten, in this one, you can’t even play the missions (a pve aspect) unless you dump money into the game for higher level cards (you won’t have enough hp to survive to progress). To compete in the regular events to get some of the better cards, you have to spend at least $500 to get into the top 100…

Those are pay to win. Where you have a distinct advantage by paying. Where you can only be competitive by paying. GW2 has nothing in which you have to pay to progress, pay to get through, pay to have the top tier. You can pay for the convenience of making it a “little” quicker… but everyone still has the equal opportunity to achieve it.

Due to the inflammatory tone in this thread, it is now closed. Please keep in mind that if you want to discuss issues on these forums, it has to be in a constructive and respectful way.