Guild Wars 2

In September 2012, the Arenanet team published their “Endgame Reimagined” article.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

I read that and became even more excited about a game I had been playing like crazy for a month. I was excited because they made it clear they would be expanding all areas of the game. In that article and others, Arenanet shared that they planned to add new DEs/Group events, new areas, better WvW/SPVP encounters and quality of life features.

So when people say “what do I do now that I have reached lvl 80”, I say “what do you want to do?”

If you did not enjoy any or most of the content you played during your leveling, this is not the game for you. There are no endgame raids and until Fractals, there was no endgame dungeon with better gear/rewards. Per Arenanet’s Endgame Reimagined, that was intentional.

“Why keep playing if I have done everything?” If you truly did everything and enjoyed it, then maybe there is nothing more for you to do. Wait for the new content they promised in “Endgame Reimagined” and their other interviews/blogposts.

For others who have not truly done everything, why not? Were you expecting raids once you made it to level cap? If so, you did not read the pre-launch materials? Arenanet made it clear there would be no raids. So tell me this, besides endgame raids and gear tiers, what else do traditional MMOs offer you once you hit level cap? Prior to 11/16, GW2 was not advertised as having either of these features.

So why not focus on the things it did have? Go for a “legendary,” all achievements, highest rank in sPVP, all titles? Level other races or professions to lvl 80? Experience all that WvW has to offer? Try new builds? Work on making your character better through experience/skill?

If you say, but I don’t want to do “XXX,” fine but don’t criticize the game for lacking things to do. Just admit that you do not like the content and move on.

For many of us, we played the game because we were having fun. We did what we enjoyed. We set our own personal goals and did not need Arenanet to “give us a reason to play.” Many of us tried all of the content and found things that we really liked so we did those over and over – not for grind but for fun. Some of us came to the game for specific content and did that the most – not for grind but for fun.

Yes, there are people that became bored with the game. Yes, there are people that ran out of things to do because truthfully they did not like some or most of the GW2 content. So What? Not everyone likes a game even if it is popular.

The MMO market is so competitive these days. GW1 was successful because it targeted a niche market. GW2 prior to 11/16 appeared to target a niche. Marketing your endgame approach as “Endgame Reimagined” sent a clear signal that this would not be the same old same old.

Now Arenanet has declared that it will move more towards traditional MMO offerings and try to satisfy a wider range of customers.

In 6 months, what will make GW2 different from all the rest? What type of customer will be left?

I think the issue is because most people are used to gearing up for somekind of content in other MMOs. However GW2 literally has no endgame. None. The only thing you have to do is 100 percent the map OR go for a legendary. You can grind for gear but for what? Just to look cool?

Most people were disappointed by the lack of actual content to complete at level 80.

I have just recently hit 80. I find your post great. There is still plenty to do. i have only 175 or so hearts completed. Between that and all the other dungeons and exp modes i still have months of content. The best part is I am not paying so if i get bored i just need a break and come back in a couple of days.

Go to ORR (level 80 Areas), make the puzzles, make level 80 dungeons (Ex: Arah) go to World vs World, go to sPVP and hit level 80 there. You can do a lot of things in level 80.

Yes Arah is amazing. Especially when you zone to the waypoint at the entrance just in time to help defend it from the risen.

redhare.9210:

I have just recently hit 80. I find your post great. There is still plenty to do. i have only 175 or so hearts completed. Between that and all the other dungeons and exp modes i still have months of content. The best part is I am not paying so if i get bored i just need a break and come back in a couple of days.

exactly my situation.
180h played in 3 months, just hit lvl 80.
i have one exo, my weapon.
so i need the full armor and other weapons.
map completion is 36%.
3 dungeons story mode left to do
im fractal lvl 4.
i havent wvwvw yet, and im rank 2pvp.

for me, the game is huge and epic and fun.
but, i totally understand that people that play full time complain about this and that; but you know what ITS A COMPUTER GAME.

redhare.9210:

I have just recently hit 80. I find your post great. There is still plenty to do. i have only 175 or so hearts completed. Between that and all the other dungeons and exp modes i still have months of content. The best part is I am not paying so if i get bored i just need a break and come back in a couple of days.

Doing hearts falls under the ‘100 percent the map’ category. Yes there are exploratory dungeons, which is another way to get gear. I’ve done a few and found them okay. Fractals I actually had fun with. (Friggin mossman) But none of that content is restricted to 80s (although some people think it is but thats for a different thread). Thus I don’t really consider it ‘endgame’ which would explain what Anet was talking about.

Also I can only do the same 4 capture the node maps for so long. (CTF or something else PLEASE). And WvWvW for me is just a place to mess around in. I useually stop if I die then have to run across the map again.

there is a lot of content in the game.

thats your endgame.

they will also add more. and pvp and wvwvw will get polished.

thats your endgame.

(until they gave in to the hardcore endgamers; fractals for you guys, best loot and endless!!! have fun)

Avatar.1923:

there is a lot of content in the game.

thats your endgame.

they will also add more. and pvp and wvwvw will get polished.

thats your endgame.

(until they gave in to the hardcore endgamers; fractals for you guys, best loot and endless!!! have fun)

For the record I did in fact play WoW. Not for the PvE mind you. I wasn’t in to the ‘wail on this guy for and hour with a chance of not even getting loot’. I did the PvP. I would do the same here but I am waiting for more varied objective maps and better balancing. I’m being patient with Anet cause I’m definitely not throwing the game to the side just yet (I mean geezus its free).

Sushi.1406:

I think the issue is because most people are used to gearing up for somekind of content in other MMOs. However GW2 literally has no endgame. None. The only thing you have to do is 100 percent the map OR go for a legendary. You can grind for gear but for what? Just to look cool?

Most people were disappointed by the lack of actual content to complete at level 80.

I know this is a kinda crazy idea but why not have a life whilst you play a game on the side? You say GW2 has no endgame, WRONG. The whole game is endgame. Designed to be fun from lvl 1. I wonder what makes running the same dungeon dozens and dozens of times= a fix to GW2? To actually think that is completely asinine.

@jamasont;

some players played and are playing A LOT.
and they play fast, to go at top fast. thats their goal.

its a rat race. and when they reach the top and realize after many hours that their life just passed them by, they complain there is no endgame.

jamasont.4653:

Sushi.1406:

I think the issue is because most people are used to gearing up for somekind of content in other MMOs. However GW2 literally has no endgame. None. The only thing you have to do is 100 percent the map OR go for a legendary. You can grind for gear but for what? Just to look cool?

Most people were disappointed by the lack of actual content to complete at level 80.

I know this is a kinda crazy idea but why not have a life whilst you play a game on the side? You say GW2 has no endgame, WRONG. The whole game is endgame. Designed to be fun from lvl 1. I wonder what makes running the same dungeon dozens and dozens of times= a fix to GW2? To actually think that is completely asinine.

Uhh can’t believe you just said, “Get a life.” really we are back to petty insults? I’ve been playing since the BWE and it took me approximately 2-3 months to hit 80 because I was taking my sweet sweet time. I’m going to the military pretty soon so when I get back to playing after 2 months I’ll expect to see some changes (hopfully balance and bug fixes).

Level in this game was a blast. But the thread isn’t about leveling, its about endgame. To say the entire leveling system is the endgame thats silly. That means whenever I hit 80 I beat the game? No. It was just a cleaver way for Anet to avoid any talk about what the have going on or such. Like I said I’m being patient and waiting to see what Anet offers. I want this game to succeed SOOOOO MUCH since I’ve been waiting years for this to come out. It just kinda meh when my friends and I get together and we are like, “what do we do today? Fractals? Naw we just did that yesterday? No need to do TA again since we got the gear from there. AC? (its a joke cause we hate doing that one).” So we go PvP for like an hour then move on to a different game.

Endgame? Basically do dungeons for exotic gear. After that its get gear to match your “look”.

After that it’s more or less what you want to do. WvW, sPvP, or more dungeons. You log on for fun instead of carrot on sticks. Well, FOTM is the exception but I only log on to do the even numbers.

why dont you and your friends help your server win in WvW? I mean thats really what the end game is. Guild Wars = pvp.

redhare.9210:

why dont you and your friends help your server win in WvW? I mean thats really what the end game is. Guild Wars = pvp.

Which is why I have so such high hopes for this game (notice I said ‘have’ and not ‘had’. I am a PvPer. And I know Guild Wars 1 had a reputation of being a popular pvp game. So I figured, “Guild Wars 2 is going to be the game for me.” So here we are 4 maps that all have the same objective. That all play out the same, kill cap node rinse and repeat. Class balance is still a mess. Still fun none the less to mess around in.

WvWvW. I love doing this but since I’m not part of a huge group that does it all the time (aka wvwvwv guilds) I don’t enjoy doing it with only 3-4 IRL friends for extended periods of times.

I agree with the Op- I have been 80 for ages and I have never wondered what to do.
I have enjoyed myself immensely doing things I like and setting my own goals.
I have never felt the need for “endgame content” and I always thought that was just code for saying I am more powerful than you, so I get the cool stuffs and get to do the cool content but you don’t.
GW2 is fun from lvl1 and it is just as much fun to me as an old 80.

Well sushi All i can say is no mmo starts with 100’s of pvp maps. It will take them time so until then you should just figure out how to play the balance issues in your favor. or do like i say in an article a while back create an all ranger guild and impersonate team rocket.

thing is, if you play 15-20h a week maximum, the game unfolds at a really nice pace; and basically, you wont be able to see the end of it.

btw, 15-20h is a lot. no ?

jamasont.4653:

Sushi.1406:

I think the issue is because most people are used to gearing up for somekind of content in other MMOs. However GW2 literally has no endgame. None. The only thing you have to do is 100 percent the map OR go for a legendary. You can grind for gear but for what? Just to look cool?

Most people were disappointed by the lack of actual content to complete at level 80.

I know this is a kinda crazy idea but why not have a life whilst you play a game on the side? You say GW2 has no endgame, WRONG. The whole game is endgame. Designed to be fun from lvl 1. I wonder what makes running the same dungeon dozens and dozens of times= a fix to GW2? To actually think that is completely asinine.

While I see what you’re saying this “the whole game is endgame” cliche is over used and inaccurate marketing mumbo jumbo and saying it is just as asinine.

When all you really have to do is just farm gold and buy your top-level gear from an auction house, that’s not an “endgame.”

redhare.9210:

Well sushi All i can say is no mmo starts with 100’s of pvp maps. It will take them time so until then you should just figure out how to play the balance issues in your favor. or do like i say in an article a while back create an all ranger guild and impersonate team rocket.

Yes obviously WoW does have quite a bit of development time under its belt. Which is why I’m being lenient on GW2. However WoW (other MMOs as well) did ship with varied objective based maps aka CTF, Siege (you could argue WvWvW fills that niche pretty well) and yes the 3 cap nodes.

80, now what? Grind for exotic gear…then grind for ascended gear…then grind for a weapon with a glow/particle effect. Legendaries should be a grind, but in-game not rl cash…stack up the exotic/ascended grind, and your legendary is further away from reach. As it stands now, anyone who throws cash at the game takes 4/5 the work out of aquiring a Legendary.

That there’s at least 1 year of gaming. You’re set for 2013.

Sushi.1406:

redhare.9210:

Well sushi All i can say is no mmo starts with 100’s of pvp maps. It will take them time so until then you should just figure out how to play the balance issues in your favor. or do like i say in an article a while back create an all ranger guild and impersonate team rocket.

Yes obviously WoW does have quite a bit of development time under its belt. Which is why I’m being lenient on GW2. However WoW (other MMOs as well) did ship with varied objective based maps aka CTF, Siege (you could argue WvWvW fills that niche pretty well) and yes the 3 cap nodes.

I don’t believe BGs were part of Vanilla WoW when it shipped. Think they came later.

Shootsfoot.9276:

While I see what you’re saying this “the whole game is endgame” cliche is over used and inaccurate marketing mumbo jumbo and saying it is just as asinine.

It is often quoted… but it is not a cliche.

They said you were in the end game from level one. And they were right.

What’s “assinine”, is people who expected an “end game” to suddenly materialise once they reached level 80. An “end game” that was different to the game they’d been playing before reaching level 80.

If people have really done everything the game has to offer (or rather, everything they find enjoyable in it), don’t want to do PvP, and don’t have friends/guildmates to help or hang out with ingame… then it’s time to put it down, and come back when there’s new content or an expansion. Seriously.

Can anyone tell me a game where there has been no complaints about the pvp after an update?

Shootsfoot.9276:

I don’t believe BGs were part of Vanilla WoW when it shipped.

That’s correct. BGs came later to the dismay of many like myself who preferred and still prefer open world pvp. It literally killed open world pvp. The addition of the pvp stat resilience t-bagged the remaining players who didn’t res fast enough.

KeikoTerada.1963:

Shootsfoot.9276:

While I see what you’re saying this “the whole game is endgame” cliche is over used and inaccurate marketing mumbo jumbo and saying it is just as asinine.

It is often quoted… but it is not a cliche.

They said you were in the end game from level one. And they were right.

What’s “assinine”, is people who expected an “end game” to suddenly materialise once they reached level 80. An “end game” that was different to the game they’d been playing before reaching level 80.

Fine, call it what you want. Call an elephant a deer, I don’t care. Doesn’t make the elephant a deer.

Much as I love this game, the entire game is not “endgame.”

They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.

Kymaera Stormweaver.1069:

Shootsfoot.9276:

I don’t believe BGs were part of Vanilla WoW when it shipped.

That’s correct. BGs came later to the dismay of many like myself who preferred and still prefer open world pvp. It literally killed open world pvp. The addition of the pvp stat resilience t-bagged the remaining players who didn’t res fast enough.

Agreed. But that being said, as much as I like open world PvP, it was also ruined by the little no-life twits who enjoyed camping low-level players just to harass them. I never minded being ganked, sometimes the way it was done to me was hysterical. Res and off I go. I loved ganking others, too. But hit them once and be done with it.

Open-world PvP certainly has its downside, too.

roll another class…..

So when people say “what do I do now that I have reached lvl 80”, I say “what do you want to do?”

The answer to the question apparently has been too hard for the community, and so now Anet deigned to supply it for us. It is now “get ascended eq. Then get more ascended eq, as they’ll be introduced. Then get level 90. Then repeat getting eq.”

Shootsfoot.9276:

KeikoTerada.1963:

Shootsfoot.9276:

While I see what you’re saying this “the whole game is endgame” cliche is over used and inaccurate marketing mumbo jumbo and saying it is just as asinine.

It is often quoted… but it is not a cliche.

They said you were in the end game from level one. And they were right.

What’s “assinine”, is people who expected an “end game” to suddenly materialise once they reached level 80. An “end game” that was different to the game they’d been playing before reaching level 80.

Fine, call it what you want. Call an elephant a deer, I don’t care. Doesn’t make the elephant a deer.

Much as I love this game, the entire game is not “endgame.”

They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.

I have to agree with this guy but will iterate further. Their “Endgame Reimagined” isn’t what they say it is. Where they like to state endgame starts at the beginning it just flat out doesn’t exist AT all.

Astralporing.1957:

So when people say “what do I do now that I have reached lvl 80”, I say “what do you want to do?”

The answer to the question apparently has been too hard for the community, and so now Anet deigned to supply it for us. It is now “get ascended eq. Then get more ascended eq, as they’ll be introduced. Then get level 90. Then repeat getting eq.”

This is not correct. Anet has admitted they made a mistake.

Ned Stark.9356:

I have to agree with this guy but will iterate further. Their “Endgame Reimagined” isn’t what they say it is. Where they like to state endgame starts at the beginning it just flat out doesn’t exist AT all.

I felt that way until botters were banned…then TP prices sky rocketted…now it’s grind grind grind grind grind. Same old endgame, now, anyways.

Shootsfoot.9276:

This is not correct. Anet has admitted they made a mistake.

Wasn’t it also admitted that it’s too late to take back so they’re keeping it?

It was said they were going to make it available by methods other than just running fractals.

Shootsfoot.9276:

They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.

No, what you (and Ned Stark) need to do, is accept that ArenaNet built a game around their idea of an end game, not yours.

GW2’s end game is exactly as advertised.
It’s just not what you think an end game should be.
By saying the end game doesn’t exist, you’re saying the entire game does not exist – ridiculous.

You bought the wrong game if you thought it would be otherwise, despite all the marketing. If what you wanted/expected was the same end game as <insert whatever game here>, then you should be playing <insert whatever game here>.

Astralporing.1957:

So when people say “what do I do now that I have reached lvl 80”, I say “what do you want to do?”

The answer to the question apparently has been too hard for the community, and so now Anet deigned to supply it for us. It is now “get ascended eq. Then get more ascended eq, as they’ll be introduced. Then get level 90. Then repeat getting eq.”

Don’t forget grinding happy-fun-timing for newer & better infusions too!

KeikoTerada.1963:

Shootsfoot.9276:

They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.

No, what you (and Ned Stark) need to do, is accept that ArenaNet built a game around their idea of an end game, not yours.

GW2’s end game is exactly as advertised.
It’s just not what you think an end game should be.
By saying the end game doesn’t exist, you’re saying the entire game does not exist – ridiculous.

You bought the wrong game if you thought it would be otherwise, despite all the marketing. If what you wanted/expected was the same end game as <insert whatever game here>, then you should be playing <insert whatever game here>.

Wow, you may want to switch to decaf.

Nowhere did I sit here and say I demand end game. I said calling an elephant a deer doesn’t make it a deer.

People tend to stay in Orr because the rewards are better for 80s, the high level crafting mats drop there, and the Arah entrance is located in that zone. That is why I think of it as an “end-game” zone.

If you (as an 80) could go to any zone/area and have the same chance for lvl 80 gear/items to drop, that would go a long way to re-inforce the “whole game as end-game” stance. Open-world PVE would probably need its difficulty re-adjusted to make this system more fair… but that is a different issue.

“The MMO market is so competitive these days. GW1 was successful because it targeted a niche market. GW2 prior to 11/16 appeared to target a niche. Marketing your endgame approach as “Endgame Reimagined” sent a clear signal that this would not be the same old same old.”

Why would you ever cater a MMO to a “niche” market. They are in it to make a lot of money. Rehashing GW1 was not going to make them that money.

Came to realize that “Endgame Reimagined” was smoke and mirrors to disguise a game that really wasn’t yet ready for launch.

They have a big bunch of cash from selling 2M copies now, and will be finishing the game, adding content as we go.

I know GW1 was a drop-in/drop-out game. I think in GW2 a lot of players want more stuff to do with continuous participation.

Shootsfoot.9276:

KeikoTerada.1963:

Shootsfoot.9276:

They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.

No, what you (and Ned Stark) need to do, is accept that ArenaNet built a game around their idea of an end game, not yours.

GW2’s end game is exactly as advertised.
It’s just not what you think an end game should be.
By saying the end game doesn’t exist, you’re saying the entire game does not exist – ridiculous.

You bought the wrong game if you thought it would be otherwise, despite all the marketing. If what you wanted/expected was the same end game as <insert whatever game here>, then you should be playing <insert whatever game here>.

Wow, you may want to switch to decaf.

Nowhere did I sit here and say I demand end game. I said calling an elephant a deer doesn’t make it a deer.

The most obvious possible interpretation of “the whole game is endgame” is this: Level-80 activities are not fundamentally different from activities at level 1-79. It’s doing dynamic events, exploring, WvW, dungeons throughout.

Heimlich.3065:

Shootsfoot.9276:

KeikoTerada.1963:

Shootsfoot.9276:

They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.

No, what you (and Ned Stark) need to do, is accept that ArenaNet built a game around their idea of an end game, not yours.

GW2’s end game is exactly as advertised.
It’s just not what you think an end game should be.
By saying the end game doesn’t exist, you’re saying the entire game does not exist – ridiculous.

You bought the wrong game if you thought it would be otherwise, despite all the marketing. If what you wanted/expected was the same end game as <insert whatever game here>, then you should be playing <insert whatever game here>.

Wow, you may want to switch to decaf.

Nowhere did I sit here and say I demand end game. I said calling an elephant a deer doesn’t make it a deer.

The most obvious possible interpretation of “the whole game is endgame” is this: Level-80 activities are not fundamentally different from activities at level 1-79. It’s doing dynamic events, exploring, WvW, dungeons throughout.

Which is just the game itself. Look, I’m not looking for end-game. Don’t care, got plenty to do in this game. What I’m saying (and those of you who choose to put words in my mouth in this thread may want to pay attention here) is even mentioning the word end-game in their marketing was a bad idea.

There is no end-game. The entire game is not end-game. It is THE game.

i think we are seeing the beginning of the end of “mmos are forever” type mentality.

WoW did it, but people are starting to be fed up by the formula already.
the “mmo genre” needs a REVOLUTION, and GW2 is not that revolution.

You can see the trend with shorter, tighter games like Dishonored doing good for themselves and mmos and d3 style games struggling.

the “treadmill” is still just that, a treadmill.
things are meant to end, eternity is not a good thing, youll get sick and bored and pessimist and maybe grow teeth.

anyway, at 300-400h, GW2 is still very very long.
and if you want to play more, all good! you can too!
but dont expect more content all the time if you play 40h a week…

Whelp I am level 80 and have a tonne of achievements and stuff left to do. This is just a list of things off the top of my head:

- Completing all the jumping puzzles.
- Completing all the explorer puzzles.
- Completing all the dungeons (explorable mode)
- Getting a legendary weapon (screw maxing that title!!!)
- Raising my WvW pure to level 80.
- Getting my warrior to level 80.
- Getting a full set of exotics and decent skins on all my characters.
- T3 sylvari skins for my elementalist.
- Getting some decent runes for my guardian.
- Maxing some sPvP titles.
- Getting to the current floor of Fractals (about level 23 is where my friends seem to be struggling)
- Filling my crafting storage and collectables tab
- Minipets
- Expanding my guild.

What I am actually doing: playing minecraft.

-shrug-

There is still tonnes of stuff to do but for the life of me I just can’t figure out why I don’t feel like doing it. It’s not that I don’t want to do all of those things because I honestly do but… I dunno. I’m not the only one who feels that way too, my friend’s list is looking more and more barren whenever I log on and although my guild is still active it’s just the same old familiar addicts it’s always been. The casual players we’ve picked up along the way are all doing other things.

I -honestly- cannot put a finger on why I feel this disconnect tho.

Well, I play both GW2 and WoW and in my mind they compliment each other nicely. That being said, if I didn’t have a good core of friends in each, I would play neither.

To me the game is all about friendships built in it.

I will say one thing that I think would improve GW2 world participation greatly, and that would be vanity drops…mini-pets, town-clothes…whatever. People love collecting these things. People in my guild in WoW go nuts over pets and rare mounts. I would think it would be the same here.

And no, I am NOT advocating mounts in this game…just an example.

Shootsfoot.9276:

I will say one thing that I think would improve GW2 world participation greatly, and that would be vanity drops…mini-pets, town-clothes…whatever. People love collecting these things. People in my guild in WoW go nuts over pets and rare mounts. I would think it would be the same here.

Meh, I don’t really want mounts in this game. I don’t think they are needed.

its true that the game feels more barren and everybody seems to be high level addicts.

its a problem with the mmo genre. people are tired of it. they are seeing WoW dying, nobody feels like playing WoW 2, and this is why blizzard wont make WoW 2…

At the end of the day, when you finished your main story and dwelled in dungeons here and there. its game over for PvE. only “some” people will actually go for the grind… casuals don’t grind or repeat content.
and in all honesty, pvp and wvwvw need a LOT OF LOVE from Anet because they don’t feel right. no progress, no social, just bland player killing. its missing something and it isnt the gameplay/combat, its something else.

all of them tedious grind without reward other then some skin or title.
most of them are also sidegame you do on downtime and shouldnt be the main game.

gw2 is an “achievement with no reward” game to the extreme. problem is, to most mmo players, that gets boring very quickly

its suppose to be pvp and wvwvw, unfortunately, they missed the ball on the modes for these.
no rank, no team, no help, no goal etc.
if they could have made these 2 modes much more organized and meaningful and cool, it could have rocked.

nothing – complain on the forums that there is nothing to do. oh wait…

Do whatever you enjoy doing and if you dont enjoy anything look for something.

I wont say take a break because with the insane gear grind for 10% more power you will be left behind at fractal whatever when in dec the next tier is released.