Guild Wars 2

GW2 was originally all about innovation and making a world that was alive. Dynamic events, hearts, jumping puzzles, massive story and lore, fast paced combat, etc…

Since then the game seems to have taken a 180. Now everything is a copy of something else.

First we started with time gating and gear progression similar to WoW.

Next we went on some weird hunger games kick where all the content was pretty much a straight copy from the books… (not an MMO copy but still odd)

Now we are introducing a watered down, cheap zerg making version of rifts from Rift.

Is this a trend that is going to continue? I originally bought the game because it wasn’t like those other MMO’s, but now it seems to be trying to copy everything it can from them. Are we going to start seeing raids? is the trinity going to start being worked in?

I love GW2, but this trend is worrying.

I don’t know if that’s a fair assessment entirely.

What made and makes GW2 innovative is that there are no real roles and the fact that you don’t need to team up for group activities but can just jump in. They also repackaged standard MMO activities (kill x mobs, collect x items, defend this area or npc) so that it’s delivered to you differently than the standard quest format. It allows you also different activities to complete hearts and dailies.

I don’t think that’s changed.

Now the living story stuff is a bit of a funny one there and I can’t really comment aboutt that.

As far as raids, yes they’re coming. That’s already been confirmed. There will be something like it, perhaps reminiscent of the GW1 raid areas (DoA, UW etc). That remains to be seen.

But in essence GW2 doesn’t really bring new content as such but rather a repackaging that freshens things up.

Sadly, there are also some things missing. That’s the flip side of this innovation. Perhaps over time more people notice them and become a little disenchanted. The trinity I don’t see coming soon to this game. That’s probably the only thing you can put some stock into….but then again, with Anet you never know.

Most things in Guild Wars 2 came from somewhere. Take the downed state. While no MMO has used it, Left for Dead certainly did. Other games exist that haven’t had the trinity. Other games exist that have downleveling. Other games exist that have dynamic events.

Guild Wars 2 has done two things. It’s taken all aspects from all different games and genres and brought them together, and it’s improved on some of them.

Take dynamic events (which didn’t start with Rift they started as public quests in Warhammer). In those games. dynamic events weren’t the main course…they were an add on. In Rift, the problem was you still had normal quest hubs and normal quests. So if an invasion came and took over a quest hub, and you had quest rewards to turn in, and there weren’t enough people on your server to do take it back…you were screwed. Which is why after beta 4, Rift changed is so invasions went away by themselves. In Guild Wars 2, but not having the regular quest hub system, the dynamic events matter. If you don’t take a town back, that down stays taken. You can go into some maps like Hirathi at times and liberate the entire map from the Centaur. This is completely different than the types of dynamic events we saw in Rift, which didn’t piggy back on each other, didn’t give different results if you suceeded or failed. The events were a side show, not a main course.

The Hunger Games thing was more paying homage to a great idea, than stealing it. No one who put that out thought, hey let’s steal this idea. They said I love this movie, let’s put something like that into the game. Hardly the same thing.

But there’s also a limit on innovation. There’s only so much you can change. Look already at how many people are complaining that Guild Wars 2 is different? Did the dynamic events go away? Nope. Did Anet suddenly add the trinity? Nope. The game is still different from other MMOs.

You cant’ really expect it to deviate more than it already has, because people can’t take that much change.

That’s why I keep saying this is an evolution, not a revolution. Real change takes time.

I hope you realise that in the last 2000 years 75% of the crap people call ‘innovative’ or ‘new’ is a copy of something else, OP.

GW2 has
-leveling
-humans
-greatsword, maces, staves, daggers, swords, hammers, bows
-wolves
-bats
-trolls
-mountains
-houses
-boats
-an economy
-clothing
…

When do you want to stop? GW2 copies other MMOs and real life.

If you want something unique I suggest you go play a ‘new’ genre like Minecraft

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Next we went on some weird hunger games kick where all the content was pretty much a straight copy from the books… (not an MMO copy but still odd)

Southsun Survival isn’t the first time Hunger Games-esque content has been in the game. The finale event for Beta Weekend Event 3 was Hunger Royale (a cross between Hunger Games and Battle Royale). Southsun Survival has been brought in as a mini-game because those who participated in Hunger Royale have been asking for it to be added to the game since beta.

Southsun Surivival isn’t exactly the same as Hunger Royale (it’s a bit more Hunger Games themed and is far more polished), but I personally think it wonderful that the devs listened to the playerbase and added it to the game.

Not to mention Hunger Games did rip off the concept from Battle Royale.

And who knows what Battle Royale was ripped off from

We can go on and on.

Nothing is innovative.Its just a copy from another stuff that is changed a tiny bit to be called innovative imo in gw2’s case.The holy trinity stuff isnt innovative either.They knew certain people do not like it and its like i know A doesnt like apples now I will give B grapes.

Vol.5241:

GW2 has
-leveling
-humans
-greatsword, maces, staves, daggers, swords, hammers, bows
-wolves
-bats
-trolls
-mountains
-houses
-boats
-an economy
-clothing
…

When do you want to stop? GW2 copies other MMOs and real life.

If you want something unique I suggest you go play a ‘new’ genre like Minecraft

Again with asking the op to go play other games…..Why you so harsh?

Vol.5241:

GW2 has
-leveling
-humans
-greatsword, maces, staves, daggers, swords, hammers, bows
-wolves
-bats
-trolls
-mountains
-houses
-boats
-an economy
-clothing
…

When do you want to stop? GW2 copies other MMOs and real life.

If you want something unique I suggest you go play a ‘new’ genre like Minecraft

But minecraft is 8-bit right????? Oh no they copied every game made before 64-bit!

xephire.8324:

Nothing is innovative.Its just a copy from another stuff that is changed a tiny bit to be called innovative imo in gw2’s case.

Innovation doesn’t necessarily mean making up new stuff. If you put a bunch of stuff together in a way no one else ever has, it’s called innovation.

Shakespeare’s plays were just words. But the way he put those words together, that made a huge difference.

WoW didn’t do much that was new or startling. They just brought many things together with some minor quality of life improvements…and because no one else does that, it’s innovative.

It’s why people called Rift WoW 2.0 and SWToR was compared to WoW in space. Guild Wars 2’s innovation was in how it combined features from other games, some of which weren’t MMOs at all.

Some would call that innovation.

OP. Are you saying you didn’t like Southsun Survival or nostalgia?

Its unfair to say that the clockwork invasions are a Rift copy.. Its pure coincidence that the invasion is similar to rifts.

I suggest everyone to try and actually roleplay in an MMORPG (role-playing game). No matter how the content is presented, if the lore is good then the game is good.

Also, do you have a better idea of how GW2 should present content? This is our generation of civilization and people can only have so many ideas.

For me it was not innovative. But it had this something to keep me for 1k hours. I haven’t played that long in anything from Diablo 2 premiere.

Now it seems the magic is abandoned because someone decided that the first priority should be spitting updates as quickly as humanly possible that took the game in different direction – action for masses. For me EVERY PIECE OF CONTENT IS BETTER IF LESS PLAYERS ARE DOING IT TOGETHER! Yesterday we did Claw of Jormag with about 10 people. It was a blast! For the first time I’ve enjoyed this fight. There was no pew pew, no mob tagging. Everyone was cooperative because otherwise we wouldn’t survive. You should try it, it’s worth it.

Now, would GW2 (or GW1) be so popular if it was packed only with the quality of content we received starting from january this year? I doubt it.

Gizmo.8623:

For me it was not innovative. But it had this something to keep me for 1k hours. I haven’t played that long in anything from Diablo 2 premiere.

Now it seems the magic is abandoned because someone decided that the first priority should be spitting updates as quickly as humanly possible that took the game in different direction.

Any idea what this something or the magic actually was for you? That would be an interesting point to define. What made it magic for you so far?

Gizmo.8623:

Would GW2 (or GW1) be so popular if it was packed only with the quality of content we received starting from january this year? I doubt it.

So wait, let me get this straight. Are you saying that if they had offered more quality content the game would be less popular?

If so that’s an interesting point. As much as I might not like that idea, it might have merit.

Vayne.8563:

xephire.8324:

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has done two things. It’s taken all aspects from all different games and genres and brought them together, and it’s improved on some of them.

Are you sure you mean all different games and genres or just some? I mean, I would hate there to be misinformation about GW2.

Casual speech is casual speech. Deal with it. Or are you legitimately having trouble with what I’m trying to say here?

What you’re doing is much like a having a vendetta. You don’t like what I have to say or how I say it, so you pick on it. But I think everyone knows when you say all it doesn’t necessarily mean every. As opposed to the world “childish” which has definite negative connotations when used. I don’t think anyone has any real problem with my use of all in this context.

O.O definite negative connotations.Childish:Adjective Of, like, or appropriate to a child.He has childish voice.How doest that have a definite negative connotation lol.

Because of years, parents have admonished their children by calling them childish. We’ve grown up in a world where people use terms like you’re acting like a child as an insult. You’re being childish is an admonition.

Usage isn’t always found in a dictionary and using a dictionary to prove language points doesn’t usually work.

How do I know this? For many years, it was my business.

Stop acting so adultish Vayne.

By the way, nice posts in this thread.

Vayne.8563:

xephire.8324:

Vayne.8563:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 has done two things. It’s taken all aspects from all different games and genres and brought them together, and it’s improved on some of them.

Are you sure you mean all different games and genres or just some? I mean, I would hate there to be misinformation about GW2.

Casual speech is casual speech. Deal with it. Or are you legitimately having trouble with what I’m trying to say here?

What you’re doing is much like a having a vendetta. You don’t like what I have to say or how I say it, so you pick on it. But I think everyone knows when you say all it doesn’t necessarily mean every. As opposed to the world “childish” which has definite negative connotations when used. I don’t think anyone has any real problem with my use of all in this context.

O.O definite negative connotations.Childish:Adjective Of, like, or appropriate to a child.He has childish voice.How doest that have a definite negative connotation lol.

Because of years, parents have admonished their children by calling them childish. We’ve grown up in a world where people use terms like you’re acting like a child as an insult. You’re being childish is an admonition.

Usage isn’t always found in a dictionary and using a dictionary to prove language points doesn’t usually work.

How do I know this? For many years, it was my business.

Mmmm thank you teacher Vayne.This thread has become a language lesson.Enlighten me moar !!

This patch has increased the grind ten fold. At Jubilee had a nice challenge despite the lag issues etc.

I haven’t gotten to the Playhouse yet.

xephire.8324:

Mmmm thank you teacher Vayne. This thread has become a language lesson.Enlighten me moar !!

Hmm… it’s “more”. Pay attention.

I agree with you though, it’s nice when you can gather random bits of knowledge from forums whatever the topic. The brains fades when you stop using it and all that, yes?

Although I will admit… sometimes I use “childish” not in a negative fashion, but out of a little bit of jealousy. Having kids and seeing the world again (viscerally) through their eyes in a childish way makes you miss a little of what you lost growing up and makes you more want to protect that for them. But… I digress.

Khal Drogo.9631:

This patch has increased the grind ten fold. At Jubilee had a nice challenge despite the lag issues etc.

I haven’t gotten to the Playhouse yet.

Interesting take… I’ve noticed that (for the achievements of course) I’m doing more farming behavior than I have in the past yet it doesn’t feel like grind. Not yet at least. So far I’m actually enjoying the invasions.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

GW2 was originally all about innovation and making a world that was alive. Dynamic events, hearts, jumping puzzles, massive story and lore, fast paced combat, etc…

Since then the game seems to have taken a 180. Now everything is a copy of something else.

First we started with time gating and gear progression similar to WoW.

Next we went on some weird hunger games kick where all the content was pretty much a straight copy from the books… (not an MMO copy but still odd)

Now we are introducing a watered down, cheap zerg making version of rifts from Rift.

Is this a trend that is going to continue? I originally bought the game because it wasn’t like those other MMO’s, but now it seems to be trying to copy everything it can from them. Are we going to start seeing raids? is the trinity going to start being worked in?

I love GW2, but this trend is worrying.

They want to have their cake and eat it too- they want to appease grindwh0res/casuals/pvp-centric players. On these forums WoW, rift, SWTOR are the comparisons people draw against GW2, not GW1. Anet sees “when are we getting raids?” “rift has….” “going back to swtor because…”

Many games come from overseas and the western forums don’t really impact anything. These forums are different- devs watch them. Complaints can be taken too seriously and Anet responds swiftly, sometimes in an overzealous manner(1 thread got lemongrass/melandru combo_nerfed). Another factor is population and how GW2 lost players after a few months. It is not Anet’s fault that people buy on hype then lose interest, this always happens. I’ve seen games go to 14-15 servers then have to condense to 3 because people leave.

In terms of “copying” content I really don’t know. Anet could be taking cues from the forums, other games or it could simply be the climate of the times. No one has a monopoly on an idea.

Which game is it copying, Nintendo Land and Cooking Mama?

Nuka Cola.8520:

Which game is it copying, Nintendo Land and Cooking Mama?

All of the above.SOB great example.

Gehenna.3625:

Any idea what this something or the magic actually was for you? That would be an interesting point to define. What made it magic for you so far?

I get a feeling that you want to jump on me. Oh well.
I don’t know if I can find the right words (English is not my first language). Every piece of content was fresh. Content was varied, doing hearts, events, getting to vistas, doing personal story and branches in it – it was like watching a good movie. But it was better. First Charr map I’ve circled 5 or 6 times just fighting with mobs and gathering materials. I was excited of things that await me if I prepare properly.
Now playing with maxed character DOESN’T HAVE ANY SENSE! What can give you more gold, more materials or experience or even exotics which are dropping completely random (more useless gold). After reached lvl 80 many months ago I was still playing similarly excited because I was looking forward to new content, which I was sure will expand things that I can do with my fully equipped character. After a year it didn’t. That’s when the magic died for me.

So wait, let me get this straight. Are you saying that if they had offered more quality content the game would be less popular?

If so that’s an interesting point. As much as I might not like that idea, it might have merit.

You misunderstood. I’ve meant “quality” (sarcasm). We are getting very poor quality now. It is directed to one type of players – farmers. Rest are playing it because it’s Guild Wars 2, tot because it’s so great, imo.

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

I think it’s hard to be completely original. That wouldn’t be a realistic expectation. I sometimes wonder if it’s the game reviewers that brought innovation to the table as a concept rather than the players.

I don’t really care so much if a game is innovative as such, it’s not a positive thing per definition. An MMO has a lot of players generally that come from different backgrounds. I think the key is that you can make a game fun and rewarding for different playstyles for the long term.

I think that’s a big challenge. I am sure Anet worked really hard and I can understand that they feel proud about what they did. Of course as players we just care about how it works for ourselves in the first place. We paid for this game in the end.

So yeh, there has been some innovation here but also some things that are lacking that might be linked to some of these innovations. Some of it will be linked to budgets.

I am interested for example to see what the new FF will do as MMO with a sub. If they can be successful with a sub that would really raise some interesting questions. And part of that will be whether it’s innovation or other things that make it work. It could also fail like the last one did, but time will tell.

GW2 has been out for a year now and that’s one of those moments were people can sit back and look at the past year. I do wonder if more innovation is really possible when a game is up and running. Not sure how difficult that might be for the programmers.

ON topic! Yes! Of course. On topic. Innovation! Copy or Innovation. Ah, caught up. Very good.

I believe, and reserve the right to be wrong and the option to admit it, that invention is the creation of something new where innovation is the improvement and advancement of the pre-existing. In that sense, GW2 is remarkably innovative in the way (as mentioned before) that it’s taken so many concepts, completely thrown them away then chosen different concepts and combined those in unique ways into a single game such as this. I can imagine a group at ANet sitting around a table in a “gentlemen’s club” somewhere in Brazil (they were on vacation) and, while taking in the sights, someone posed the questions “What sucks about today’s MMOs?” because, having the geek in them, those questions are likely to pop up in even that setting. Then ideas began to flow… ‘waiting for a healer or tank’ <insert dollar> ‘quest hubs. Quest hubs suck.’ <insert dollar> ‘Subscription fees.’ <insert five dollar bill, ask for change, get thrown out of club, finish chat by the pool at the hotel>.

From the ideas gathered that fateful night came together many in innovative and fresh ways to create the game we have now. Yeah, I’ll bet it happened a lot like that. Obviously the watchnights were modeled after one of the dancers.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

You can’t really claim ESO or EQNext are directly copying the gw2 of yet both games havent even been released.

xephire.8324:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

You can’t really claim ESO or EQNext are directly copying the games as of yet.Both of the games havent even been released.

A technicality. Valid, of course, but still a technicality when you consider ideas presented for those games. Although the fact that they seem to be drifting to a sub-fee based payment model is rather odd in this day and age. At least… Wildstar and one of those two has already declared they’re going sub-fee.

VOLKON.1290:

xephire.8324:

Mmmm thank you teacher Vayne. This thread has become a language lesson.Enlighten me moar !!

Hmm… it’s “more”. Pay attention.

Nay, correct not! Innovate! Combine things that no one else has combined! Thus:

Moar – an innovative (and unholy) combination of moa and boar, created one dreary Sunday afternoon in Metrica Province by bored Inquest scientists. The moar is notorious for the unusual sounds it produces, ranging from a high-pitched tweal to a more guttural chiroink. While the wings of the moar are too small to allow for unassisted flight, it has been suggested that, given sufficient time (and the inclination), the Inquest scientists who designed (and patented) the moar will eventually succeed in making pigs fly.

See also: moarish, moar-like, moaresque

VOLKON.1290:

xephire.8324:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

You can’t really claim ESO or EQNext are directly copying the games as of yet.Both of the games havent even been released.

A technicality. Valid, of course, but still a technicality when you consider ideas presented for those games. Although the fact that they seem to be drifting to a sub-fee based payment model is rather odd in this day and age. At least… Wildstar and one of those two has already declared they’re going sub-fee.

Wild Star isn’t sub free actually. It has a sub, but as an alternative, you can use your first month’s sub that you get with the box to start earning your way through. So you exchange ingame cash for credds and with that you pay your sub.

Interesting is that this game is also from NcSoft and they haven’t copied the GW2 model. Just something to think about.

The discussion is still open on subs really. I think subs are still important to MMOs but perhaps a number of current MMOs didn’t live up to the expectations causing people not to want to pay a sub anymore. Still, most of those games still have sub options in it.

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

xephire.8324:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

You can’t really claim ESO or EQNext are directly copying the games as of yet.Both of the games havent even been released.

A technicality. Valid, of course, but still a technicality when you consider ideas presented for those games. Although the fact that they seem to be drifting to a sub-fee based payment model is rather odd in this day and age. At least… Wildstar and one of those two has already declared they’re going sub-fee.

Wild Star isn’t sub free actually. It has a sub, but as an alternative, you can use your first month’s sub that you get with the box to start earning your way through. So you exchange ingame cash for credds and with that you pay your sub.

Interesting is that this game is also from NcSoft and they haven’t copied the GW2 model. Just something to think about.

The discussion is still open on subs really. I think subs are still important to MMOs but perhaps a number of current MMOs didn’t live up to the expectations causing people not to want to pay a sub anymore. Still, most of those games still have sub options in it.

Not sub-free, sub-fee. I think I should have chosen a better term. I apologize for that.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

GW2 was originally all about innovation and making a world that was alive. Dynamic events, hearts, jumping puzzles, massive story and lore, fast paced combat, etc…

Since then the game seems to have taken a 180. Now everything is a copy of something else.

First we started with time gating and gear progression similar to WoW.

Next we went on some weird hunger games kick where all the content was pretty much a straight copy from the books… (not an MMO copy but still odd)

Now we are introducing a watered down, cheap zerg making version of rifts from Rift.

Is this a trend that is going to continue? I originally bought the game because it wasn’t like those other MMO’s, but now it seems to be trying to copy everything it can from them. Are we going to start seeing raids? is the trinity going to start being worked in?

I love GW2, but this trend is worrying.

There was a time when companies made a product and said “Here it is, like it or leave it, this is our vision, play it our way.” Now we have companies trying to please every demographic and every niche of their player base.

If you notice the things that change, are usually related to things complained about. Did you like dailies the way they used to be? How often did you say so before it was changed?

If you ask me, therein lies the problem. Positive feedback is overshadowed by the negatives. The complaints get looked at. If it is something that is complained about enough, it gets changed.

Try a little more positive reinforcement. I have zero expectation of it happening, but I do wonder just what the results would be if it did.

VOLKON.1290:

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

xephire.8324:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

You can’t really claim ESO or EQNext are directly copying the games as of yet.Both of the games havent even been released.

A technicality. Valid, of course, but still a technicality when you consider ideas presented for those games. Although the fact that they seem to be drifting to a sub-fee based payment model is rather odd in this day and age. At least… Wildstar and one of those two has already declared they’re going sub-fee.

Wild Star isn’t sub free actually. It has a sub, but as an alternative, you can use your first month’s sub that you get with the box to start earning your way through. So you exchange ingame cash for credds and with that you pay your sub.

Interesting is that this game is also from NcSoft and they haven’t copied the GW2 model. Just something to think about.

The discussion is still open on subs really. I think subs are still important to MMOs but perhaps a number of current MMOs didn’t live up to the expectations causing people not to want to pay a sub anymore. Still, most of those games still have sub options in it.

Not sub-free, sub-fee. I think I should have chosen a better term. I apologize for that.

Ah I misread that obviously. My mistake. But yeh, I think companies still try subs because if they get it right it’s the best situation for them as well.

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

xephire.8324:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

You can’t really claim ESO or EQNext are directly copying the games as of yet.Both of the games havent even been released.

A technicality. Valid, of course, but still a technicality when you consider ideas presented for those games. Although the fact that they seem to be drifting to a sub-fee based payment model is rather odd in this day and age. At least… Wildstar and one of those two has already declared they’re going sub-fee.

Wild Star isn’t sub free actually. It has a sub, but as an alternative, you can use your first month’s sub that you get with the box to start earning your way through. So you exchange ingame cash for credds and with that you pay your sub.

Interesting is that this game is also from NcSoft and they haven’t copied the GW2 model. Just something to think about.

The discussion is still open on subs really. I think subs are still important to MMOs but perhaps a number of current MMOs didn’t live up to the expectations causing people not to want to pay a sub anymore. Still, most of those games still have sub options in it.

Not sub-free, sub-fee. I think I should have chosen a better term. I apologize for that.

Ah I misread that obviously. My mistake. But yeh, I think companies still try subs because if they get it right it’s the best situation for them as well.

Very true. Big “if” though. GW2, in my opinion (which I won’t call humble), has raised the bar significantly for the rest of the MMO world now. I mean… look at this! New stuff every two weeks, and they’re just beginning to hit their stride on that! For no added charge, and no sub fee. Who out there can justify a sub these days? The way I see it, you need to surpass what we’re getting here for the box price significantly to ever make me even ponder the remote possibility of considering a sub ever again. That’s a high bar.

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

xephire.8324:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

You can’t really claim ESO or EQNext are directly copying the games as of yet.Both of the games havent even been released.

A technicality. Valid, of course, but still a technicality when you consider ideas presented for those games. Although the fact that they seem to be drifting to a sub-fee based payment model is rather odd in this day and age. At least… Wildstar and one of those two has already declared they’re going sub-fee.

Wild Star isn’t sub free actually. It has a sub, but as an alternative, you can use your first month’s sub that you get with the box to start earning your way through. So you exchange ingame cash for credds and with that you pay your sub.

Interesting is that this game is also from NcSoft and they haven’t copied the GW2 model. Just something to think about.

The discussion is still open on subs really. I think subs are still important to MMOs but perhaps a number of current MMOs didn’t live up to the expectations causing people not to want to pay a sub anymore. Still, most of those games still have sub options in it.

Not sub-free, sub-fee. I think I should have chosen a better term. I apologize for that.

Ah I misread that obviously. My mistake. But yeh, I think companies still try subs because if they get it right it’s the best situation for them as well.

I used to think that. GW2 has shown me the error of my ways though. I see way more people dumping money into this game above and beyond a normal monthly fee would be. Of course I also assume there are those who don’t drop any money into it outside of the game purchase. I know personally I treat this game as sub based and set a limit for myself as to what I will pay into the gemstore per month. I know others in my guild have dropped hundreds of dollars at a time.

I think in the long run, the desire for cosmetic and fun items draw more money out of people than the monthly fee. I have no data to back it up. It just seems that way to me.

Poledo.3256:

I used to think that. GW2 has shown me the error of my ways though. I see way more people dumping money into this game above and beyond a normal monthly fee would be. Of course I also assume there are those who don’t drop any money into it outside of the game purchase. I know personally I treat this game as sub based and set a limit for myself as to what I will pay into the gemstore per month. I know others in my guild have dropped hundreds of dollars at a time.

I think in the long run, the desire for cosmetic and fun items draw more money out of people than the monthly fee. I have no data to back it up. It just seems that way to me.

Great great point. I, for one, will pay a heck of a lot more as a part of having fun then I’d pay if “coerced”. (Don’t pay, don’t play! Nyah!) I’m not going to look and add it up, but I’m sure I’m well past what I’d have paid had there been a sub. Best part? I don’t care, I’m enjoying myself. It’s worth it.

Vayne.8563:

Most things in Guild Wars 2 came from somewhere. Take the downed state. While no MMO has used it, Left for Dead certainly did. Other games exist that haven’t had the trinity. Other games exist that have downleveling. Other games exist that have dynamic events.

Guild Wars 2 has done two things. It’s taken all aspects from all different games and genres and brought them together, and it’s improved on some of them.

Take dynamic events (which didn’t start with Rift they started as public quests in Warhammer). In those games. dynamic events weren’t the main course…they were an add on. In Rift, the problem was you still had normal quest hubs and normal quests. So if an invasion came and took over a quest hub, and you had quest rewards to turn in, and there weren’t enough people on your server to do take it back…you were screwed. Which is why after beta 4, Rift changed is so invasions went away by themselves. In Guild Wars 2, but not having the regular quest hub system, the dynamic events matter. If you don’t take a town back, that down stays taken. You can go into some maps like Hirathi at times and liberate the entire map from the Centaur. This is completely different than the types of dynamic events we saw in Rift, which didn’t piggy back on each other, didn’t give different results if you suceeded or failed. The events were a side show, not a main course.

The Hunger Games thing was more paying homage to a great idea, than stealing it. No one who put that out thought, hey let’s steal this idea. They said I love this movie, let’s put something like that into the game. Hardly the same thing.

But there’s also a limit on innovation. There’s only so much you can change. Look already at how many people are complaining that Guild Wars 2 is different? Did the dynamic events go away? Nope. Did Anet suddenly add the trinity? Nope. The game is still different from other MMOs.

You cant’ really expect it to deviate more than it already has, because people can’t take that much change.

That’s why I keep saying this is an evolution, not a revolution. Real change takes time.

OMG I can’t beveled you forgotten that the down state had existed in GW1. Go back GW1 put on your Brass Knuckle, enter the arena and prepare to be put into a down state.

Poledo.3256:

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

xephire.8324:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

You can’t really claim ESO or EQNext are directly copying the games as of yet.Both of the games havent even been released.

A technicality. Valid, of course, but still a technicality when you consider ideas presented for those games. Although the fact that they seem to be drifting to a sub-fee based payment model is rather odd in this day and age. At least… Wildstar and one of those two has already declared they’re going sub-fee.

Wild Star isn’t sub free actually. It has a sub, but as an alternative, you can use your first month’s sub that you get with the box to start earning your way through. So you exchange ingame cash for credds and with that you pay your sub.

Interesting is that this game is also from NcSoft and they haven’t copied the GW2 model. Just something to think about.

The discussion is still open on subs really. I think subs are still important to MMOs but perhaps a number of current MMOs didn’t live up to the expectations causing people not to want to pay a sub anymore. Still, most of those games still have sub options in it.

Not sub-free, sub-fee. I think I should have chosen a better term. I apologize for that.

Ah I misread that obviously. My mistake. But yeh, I think companies still try subs because if they get it right it’s the best situation for them as well.

I used to think that. GW2 has shown me the error of my ways though. I see way more people dumping money into this game above and beyond a normal monthly fee would be. Of course I also assume there are those who don’t drop any money into it outside of the game purchase. I know personally I treat this game as sub based and set a limit for myself as to what I will pay into the gemstore per month. I know others in my guild have dropped hundreds of dollars at a time.

I think in the long run, the desire for cosmetic and fun items draw more money out of people than the monthly fee. I have no data to back it up. It just seems that way to me.

Except that many games today have a monthly fee AND a cash shop. Or at least tried to. It’s how TSW started. WoW has a cash shop as well and they’re changing it now so it can be accessed in game.

I bet they sell a lot of sparkle ponies.

It seems that the OP and other posters don’t know what “innovative” means.

Innovation is, using a Beatles song, “take a sad song and make it better.”

Hunger Game is just an innovation of a classic “scavenger’s hunt” or “finder’s keepers”.

My problem isn’t so much that they are copying things. I realize they copied public quests, and dodging and combat all from other games. The difference was when they copied them they improved on them and brought them together in a new and exciting way. That to me is innovation.

But now with the current content it seems to be more about speed then about quality and innovation. Rifts were a good idea, I have no problem with the fact that they are copying them in and of itself, but they did a really bad job of copying them.

The whole point of GW2 was a living world. They went on and on about impact and if you didn’t finish an event it would spread and the map would change. They worked very kitten this and overall I think they did a great job with it. But now they are taking the idea of rifts, which was supposed to be about the same thing except on a larger and random scale… but they half-kittened it and completely threw out everything that made it exciting… We have static mobs with no AI, they don’t wander, they don’t spread and destroy. You get the same reward if you succeed or fail, there is no lasting impact and no dynamic world. And to add insult to injury they are toting it as their big permanent world changing content that we have been asking for.

They seem to have completely thrown away their original ideas and quality that made the game great and are substituting it by trying to throw grinds at us faster then we can consume them.

The same thing with time gating content and gear progression. I don’t have any problem at all with adding ascended gear. But in their lust for throwing out content at warp speed they do a poor job of implementation. They don’t have all the gear combinations, they took the customizability of normal gear and threw it out in order to get the gear out faster and not have to worry about balance. Same thing with time gating. The whole concept behind GW2 was that there was no subscription fee so you could take breaks and come back and still have useable gear and be able to jump right in. Well no longer, if you miss a single day you are behind and will never catch up thanks to daily and time gated content.

In all honesty, if a feature if another game is good, why not take it and improve upon it? Innovation purely for innovation’s sake us a rather un-worthwhile effort.

GW2 tries to appeal to everyone, and ends up with a watered down experience for everyone. A hardcore player and a casual certainly can play this game and have some fun doing so, but not near as much as a game catered to their individual needs.

Essentially this game is becoming a cash grab catering to the lowest common denominator instead of making a really great game a group of people will really enjoy, GW1 brought me in because I was a hardcore PvP fan, though the PvE wasn’t 1/2 bad either.

Vayne.8563:

Poledo.3256:

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

Gehenna.3625:

VOLKON.1290:

xephire.8324:

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t think you can claim that GW2 isn’t innovative, as now we’re starting into the “GW2 Clones” phase with many aspects of ESO and EQNext copying directly from GW2’s design philosophies. Many MMOs have already started employing dynamic events and even call them that, and they’re nothing more than what GW2 already has. You can’t really go back on that.

You can’t really claim ESO or EQNext are directly copying the games as of yet.Both of the games havent even been released.

A technicality. Valid, of course, but still a technicality when you consider ideas presented for those games. Although the fact that they seem to be drifting to a sub-fee based payment model is rather odd in this day and age. At least… Wildstar and one of those two has already declared they’re going sub-fee.

Wild Star isn’t sub free actually. It has a sub, but as an alternative, you can use your first month’s sub that you get with the box to start earning your way through. So you exchange ingame cash for credds and with that you pay your sub.

Interesting is that this game is also from NcSoft and they haven’t copied the GW2 model. Just something to think about.

The discussion is still open on subs really. I think subs are still important to MMOs but perhaps a number of current MMOs didn’t live up to the expectations causing people not to want to pay a sub anymore. Still, most of those games still have sub options in it.

Not sub-free, sub-fee. I think I should have chosen a better term. I apologize for that.

Ah I misread that obviously. My mistake. But yeh, I think companies still try subs because if they get it right it’s the best situation for them as well.

I used to think that. GW2 has shown me the error of my ways though. I see way more people dumping money into this game above and beyond a normal monthly fee would be. Of course I also assume there are those who don’t drop any money into it outside of the game purchase. I know personally I treat this game as sub based and set a limit for myself as to what I will pay into the gemstore per month. I know others in my guild have dropped hundreds of dollars at a time.

I think in the long run, the desire for cosmetic and fun items draw more money out of people than the monthly fee. I have no data to back it up. It just seems that way to me.

Except that many games today have a monthly fee AND a cash shop. Or at least tried to. It’s how TSW started. WoW has a cash shop as well and they’re changing it now so it can be accessed in game.

I bet they sell a lot of sparkle ponies.

I haven’t touched WoW since WotLK ended. Thanks for the info though. It is a smart move. People are willing to pay for that shiny item, companies like money…

Zepidel.5349:

GW2 tries to appeal to everyone, and ends up with a watered down experience for everyone. A hardcore player and a casual certainly can play this game and have some fun doing so, but not near as much as a game catered to their individual needs.

Essentially this game is becoming a cash grab catering to the lowest common denominator instead of making a really great game a group of people will really enjoy, GW1 brought me in because I was a hardcore PvP fan, though the PvE wasn’t 1/2 bad either.

This is somewhat akin to how I feel about the game as it is now.

They are simply trying to please everyone, creating a reason for everyone to log in, but are just ending up with something that falls short for everyone.
Thus it appears that everyone complains about everything.

Unless you are tagging the names to the complaints and doing all kinds of extra work to keep the various ‘types’ of players tied to their respective feedback the overall vibe ends up being everything sucks, change everything.

Then when they (anet) change something, a different yet indistinguishable group of ‘everyone’ gets angry again.

They (anet) need to just pick a side. Decide the target audience. Provide the best possible experince for said audience. If they do this, over time those players not in the target demographic will leave, but those that are their target audience will be better off for it and will do all sorts of stuff to recruit their friends, promote the game etc.

The saying ‘jack of all trades and a master of none’ comes to mind when discussing GW2. It’s fitting.

xephire.8324:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Can we please get back on topic. I already asked before. If not for me, do it for the rest of the people here. If you really want to discuss the problems we have with each other, feel free to pm me. Then we can keep it out of here.

I would’ve prefered if you’d reacted to the part where I was trying to bring it back on topic, so let’s try again pls.

Just gonna throw this out there, but you intentionally goad him into responding to you. If you wanted to keep those problems out of or derailing a thread you can simply ignore his post and make your own in regards to whatever the OP topic is. You want to argue semantics, you want to try and push or catch him on any little thing you can, seems to me time would be better spent just accepting that people have different views of things and move on.

You should pm instead of posting here.You’re making the thread going off topic again.

That’s ok I am allowed to because of how awesome I am! /end sarcasm
Of course you are right I should have, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

xephire.8324:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Can we please get back on topic. I already asked before. If not for me, do it for the rest of the people here. If you really want to discuss the problems we have with each other, feel free to pm me. Then we can keep it out of here.

I would’ve prefered if you’d reacted to the part where I was trying to bring it back on topic, so let’s try again pls.

Just gonna throw this out there, but you intentionally goad him into responding to you. If you wanted to keep those problems out of or derailing a thread you can simply ignore his post and make your own in regards to whatever the OP topic is. You want to argue semantics, you want to try and push or catch him on any little thing you can, seems to me time would be better spent just accepting that people have different views of things and move on.

You should pm instead of posting here.You’re making the thread going off topic again.

The same aply to you. And to me. See.

Poplolita.2638:

xephire.8324:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

Gehenna.3625:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Can we please get back on topic. I already asked before. If not for me, do it for the rest of the people here. If you really want to discuss the problems we have with each other, feel free to pm me. Then we can keep it out of here.

I would’ve prefered if you’d reacted to the part where I was trying to bring it back on topic, so let’s try again pls.

Just gonna throw this out there, but you intentionally goad him into responding to you. If you wanted to keep those problems out of or derailing a thread you can simply ignore his post and make your own in regards to whatever the OP topic is. You want to argue semantics, you want to try and push or catch him on any little thing you can, seems to me time would be better spent just accepting that people have different views of things and move on.

You should pm instead of posting here.You’re making the thread going off topic again.

The same aply to you. And to me. See.

Yes its an infinite loop.

I was on topic.

I wish they would copy gw1’s ability variety and customization.

Then the game would be fun again.

Tachenon.5270:

VOLKON.1290:

xephire.8324:

Mmmm thank you teacher Vayne. This thread has become a language lesson.Enlighten me moar !!

Hmm… it’s “more”. Pay attention.

Nay, correct not! Innovate! Combine things that no one else has combined! Thus:

Moar – an innovative (and unholy) combination of moa and boar, created one dreary Sunday afternoon in Metrica Province by bored Inquest scientists. The moar is notorious for the unusual sounds it produces, ranging from a high-pitched tweal to a more guttural chiroink. While the wings of the moar are too small to allow for unassisted flight, it has been suggested that, given sufficient time (and the inclination), the Inquest scientists who designed (and patented) the moar will eventually succeed in making pigs fly.

See also: moarish, moar-like, moaresque

~Claps~ Kudos for this!