Guild Wars 2

I couldn’t agree more, especially with the last part of OP’s initial post.

This post was meant for the GW2 Discussion forum because its my thoughts about PVP in GENERAL!

Only one portion of this post is about sPvP related the other is WvW. To me that is a GENERAL POST!!

And not an Spvp post only…….

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

+2

GW1 was a great pvp game I dont know why they left the winner formula and came with this.. a grind fest with no serious spvp, and unbalance classes with broken mechanics.

Overthrust.2659:

GW1 was a great pvp game I dont know why they left the winner formula and came with this.. a grind fest with no serious spvp, and unbalance classes with broken mechanics.

because they wanted to make pvp everyone could play…LOL!!!!

I like WvW

but Spvp is a HUGE fail bicous of stat combo restrictions…..totally breaks lots of builds.

Pretty much.

If you don’t care for sPvP Anet, then why not at least make glory a currency with which to buy stuff for PvE?
It will at least motivate people to come to sPvP.

Allie Murdock.8152:

I’ll change the title to say pvp/wvw so the moderators don’t move it again.

Thank you

My thoughts on WVW

If you ever played warhammer online you will realize how much of a joke is wvw in this game. (it was not perfect but man i find it so much better than this)

no body blocking, no tanks (where are the shield walls? the line of heavies stopping the enemies for getting inside a castle?), siege machines takes too much to be built and too little to be destroyed, you have to run many minutes for a 10 seconds fight and then run back a huge distance, no raid/huge party interface, etc (yes etc.. i don’t wanna be typing forever).

This game got the worst from other games massive pvp: Lots of unorganized zergs against each other where AOE is king. Just a huge mess of red and green names running and doing nothing in particular, just AOEs and spamming 1. Eventually you see someone to hit but those are the rare opportunities.

Maps are designed for thousands of players and you barely get to see a few dozens (even at full when you have to wait in queue to enter, maps are still empty).

meh… it has potential but the things that (IMO) are not properly design for a massive pvp are core and I don’t expect them to change.

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

Agree, spvp lost my interest a long time ago, why continue to do it when it never changes and theres no real rewards other then the finishers, I really loved WvW but seasons is not what I wanted, PvE in WvW is a bad Idea, PvErs just want loot and they don’t defend or care that WvWrs upgrade and put money, what little money we have into upgrading towers, keeps, and camps and they could care less about defending it cause they dont lose anything, they don’t put anything into this, the WvWrs do, and Anet is pretty much kittenting on us by bringing PvE to WvW.

They think it would be good? Do they actually discuss these things before hand? I wonder if they record these discussions. Would be funny to watch.

fugazi.5139:

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

+2

+3

fugazi.5139:

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

+2

+3

With only 1 game mode and lack of significant roles PvP will never flourish. Though without expansions I don’t really see PvE flourishing either. I think a lack of clear direction is what the game suffers from most.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

fugazi.5139:

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

+2

+3

With only 1 game mode and lack of significant roles PvP will never flourish. Though without expansions I don’t really see PvE flourishing either. I think a lack of clear direction is what the game suffers from most.

without roles pvp is like a chess full of pawns.

SPvP: no reason to play
WvW: zergfest, more numbers you win. Is that supposed to be strategy, grandscale combat?!

GW1 had one of most balanced pvp system ever, in gw2 its bigest fail ever … I play elementalist and I say there is no balance in pvp/wvw. Pve is cool and I like it (trough I miss closed zones sometimes) Give us something like alliance battles or guild battles (12vs12)

Mesket.5728:

My thoughts on WVW

If you ever played warhammer online you will realize how much of a joke is wvw in this game. (it was not perfect but man i find it so much better than this)

no body blocking, no tanks (where are the shield walls? the line of heavies stopping the enemies for getting inside a castle?), siege machines takes too much to be built and too little to be destroyed, you have to run many minutes for a 10 seconds fight and then run back a huge distance, no raid/huge party interface, etc (yes etc.. i don’t wanna be typing forever).

This game got the worst from other games massive pvp: Lots of unorganized zergs against each other where AOE is king. Just a huge mess of red and green names running and doing nothing in particular, just AOEs and spamming 1. Eventually you see someone to hit but those are the rare opportunities.

Maps are designed for thousands of players and you barely get to see a few dozens (even at full when you have to wait in queue to enter, maps are still empty).

meh… it has potential but the things that (IMO) are not properly design for a massive pvp are core and I don’t expect them to change.

I am starting to notice a trend about this game… There are huge limitations because of technical issues.

I think you make a great point when you say "Maps are designed for thousands of players and you barely get to see a few dozens (even at full when you have to wait in queue to enter, maps are still empty).‘. This is so very true even when the cues are full the map still feel’s baron. Which to me points to a server/software limitation on Anet’s end.

Then there is the issue of zerging in wvw which is another technical issue. Friday night at resets I entered wvw. The lag was so bad that I would hit a skill and it take 30-45secs to cast. This is not a issue on my end or with my computer. This issue has to do with either a unoptimized server or lack of bandwidth on anets end. This also shows up with the limitations of condition damage. Where 25 stacks of a given condition damage is the max that can be stacked due to limitations on anets end.

Then we come to the class system which limit’s pvp to the extreme. There are basically two types of classes support/dps and dps. When it comes down to these 20-30 people zerg’s there is only 1 thing you can really do and that’s drop AOE and hope your skills go off before the other players. There where other class types such as tanks, healers, and dps. Then zerging would be a lot different unfortunately its not.

Anet, I love many aspects of your game and I think this is the best MMO out there, so i will stick around for longer since I foresee a great future for the game. Having that said, there are a couple of things which need to be addressed, ASAP!

Class Balance:

To me this is the biggest issue. This isnt only about sPvP or WvW, but also PvE. I dont want to point too many finger but right now warrior is probably the bigger offender. While people exaggerate a little about their strenghts, the truth of the matter is; they are still the best all-around class, which has the most viable builds and versatility , with virtually no drawbacks. Makes the rest of us feel neglected, aka elementalists.

Whether the balance issues are perceived or real, there is a real disparity about classes when it comes to utility/damage/support. Many classes have only one or two viable builds which pidgeonhole them into usually only one role; example guardians which are pretty much the support whoe of the game when it comes to sPvP, very few times we see a guardian playing damage and when you do, you would much rather have a warrior filling that role since they do it more effectively without giving up anything.

sPvP stas and runes gutting: Crit chance and crit % increanse is very important for some classes, matching different combinations too. A 35% crit chance with 58% crit % is not going to hit as hard and crit as often as a 67% crit chance with 108% crit increase, this gives classes with easy disengage (cough mesmers and thieves cough) the ability to kinda burst people due to high skill coefficients. But classes which rely to small repetitive attacks but has no real way to disengage (cough ele cough) die due to them doing nearly no damage as opposed if you were to encounter them in a WvW match.

WvW and runes/stats, duels: Traveler Runes, Perplexity runes, and a few other examples. I cant play guardian in sPvP anymore due to puppy mobility, Im so used to Traveler runes to make up for the obvious design flaw in guardians’ lack of mobility (which needs to be addressed, apparently mesmers and guardians are the only poor souls who dont deserve a 25% mov speed skill) that everytime I enter sPvP i feel like a slug and leave. I wish I could duel in the open world, people of my own server, in maps of my choosing, with stats of my choosings. Want to make money out of it? Make it a gem thing 800 for account bound “rights to duel” and give an option to turn it off in UI so that people dont get bothered by it, and dont give me the “immersion” excuse, I think they are many MANY more things in the game which are less unmersive.

Overall there is a lot to improve, a lot to fix, incentive for some people who need an extra kick so that they feel their time is converting to something “useful” (personally i find PvP intrinsicaly fun enough, but many others dont consider this the case)

and please balance the classes

edit PS: as far as WvW goes it is true; I used to be in Gate of Madness which allegedly is one of the “top populated server” yet in WvW there is never a queue, let alone a single soul, and you would think that instead they are in open world, right? Nope, all temples closed, LA never has overflow, all dungeons closed, maps empty, where are these people?! How are we ranked top populated server?! We are 21/24 server in WvW ranking. You know what I [and many others on my guild and whats left in the server] did? We went to server which we knew were actually populated, which had dungeons open, which had temples going; TC, BG, Magu. GoM will probably remain in t8, perhaps Im wrong and I live to regret my decision, but somehow I doubt it. MErge servers for next season.

sPvP needs:

DR on CC
Capture the Flag, Mini-WvW, and an invasion map (20v20)
Ways to spend glory (buy t6 mats?)

my biggest problem with WvW is there is little to no strategy its whoever brings the biggest Zerg wins there is no way for a smaller group to outplay a larger group.

AND the only viable strat in WvW is Stacking and moving together as a giant clusterf*** of crap through a fight. in every other MMORPG that offers massive WvW type fights, a group doing that would get cursed at and told “stop being noob zerglings and spread out!”

but in GW2 is perfectly viable and infact the dominant tactic.

Khallis.5708:

my biggest problem with WvW is there is little to no strategy its whoever brings the biggest Zerg wins there is no way for a smaller group to outplay a larger group.

AND the only viable strat in WvW is Stacking and moving together as a giant clusterf*** of crap through a fight. in every other MMORPG that offers massive WvW type fights, a group doing that would get cursed at and told “stop being noob zerglings and spread out!”

but in GW2 is perfectly viable and infact the dominant tactic.

This is really mostly due to downstate.

Downstate means that blobbing/zerging is the most effective, because either you rally from all the crazyness, or your zerg resses you afterward.

If they removed downstate it would be less swingy, and the greater skilled group could actually beat the outnumbering group.

Ahlen.7591:

Khallis.5708:

my biggest problem with WvW is there is little to no strategy its whoever brings the biggest Zerg wins there is no way for a smaller group to outplay a larger group.

AND the only viable strat in WvW is Stacking and moving together as a giant clusterf*** of crap through a fight. in every other MMORPG that offers massive WvW type fights, a group doing that would get cursed at and told “stop being noob zerglings and spread out!”

but in GW2 is perfectly viable and infact the dominant tactic.

This is really mostly due to downstate.

Downstate means that blobbing/zerging is the most effective, because either you rally from all the crazyness, or your zerg resses you afterward.

If they removed downstate it would be less swingy, and the greater skilled group could actually beat the outnumbering group.

+1

Well, if you absolutely don’t want to get rid of the downed state (and considering how much of their gem store is filled with customized finishers, I don’t see it going away), you can at least make the finishing blow much quicker to perform.

Given that all classes should be able to be self sufficient then why don’t they have 1v1 duel options. That would also help shake out the OP builds and professions

Finishers could automatically stake people once they die. They could also make it so that 1 death = 1 rally, lower the amount of health a person starts with in the downed state so there’s no more instant ressing and change downed penalty. Downed penalty is ridiculous, how many people die 4 times in 1 minute? It should last a lot longer and fewer stacks should be required to go directly to death.

Add food and all other PvE gear to sPvP.

Add GvG game mode.

Add 1v1 random arena.

Profit.

Thieves are so incredibly important in wvw. Guilds are very, very particular with who they want to play thief because it’s a high risk role which requires a lot of skill and battlefield awareness. It’s a tough class to play in wvw (actual wvw, not roaming) and only 2-3 are needed in a zerg. Good thieves are in high demand.

Sube Dai.8496:

Add food and all other PvE gear to sPvP.

Add GvG game mode.

Add 1v1 random arena.

Profit.

this has been posted by many people but devs/spvp/tpvp dont want this because it will separate players from the “real” pvp in gw2.

As a player that plays both PvE and WvW I feel like most of the issue is class balance and the whole risk vs reward ratios everywhere in the game. It consistently pushes all players into a select group of classes, that do uber damage so that they are more efficient. This causes the other classes balance to get ignored due to the smaller number of players on them. Additionally, WvW requires better infrastructure on ANets side. The only other game I’ve ever played that encouraged this kind of cookie cutter build setup, and abysmal drops like this is MapleStory. Because it is designed around the cash shop.

The number one contributer to the lack of balance is the Living Story update pacing. Bug creep, profession imbalance and things that need fixing in general, condition cap in pve, are ignored because the company believes that Living Story is keeping players satisfied because everyone logs in to do it. They also then go back to ignoring the game because it focuses on grinding, poor risk vs reward, temporary content, and in general “noob” level gameplay (zergs everywhere!)

pvd and lack of pk/pvp action is the main problem in wvw. let us earn points for our world by directly killing other players, not by ramming doors all day. 85%+ of the time you spend in wvw is pvd and walking between objectives. no this isn’t fun, pk/pvp is currently a secondary thing not the main objective in wvw. this is the main problem for many players. we also need better rewards like leaderboard ranks, rank emblems for our characters to keep up playing. you play for nothing after you unlock buffs you want in wvw. ppl don’t even know your rank level or experience in wvw. also skill lags make it impossible to fight in great numbers which discourages many players to play in wvw.

Hilarious picture I found earlier last month on this forum.

Umut.5471:

pvd and lack of pk/pvp action is the main problem in wvw. let us earn points for our world by directly killing other players, not by ramming doors all day. 85%+ of the time you spend in wvw is pvd and walking between objectives. no this isn’t fun, pk/pvp is currently a secondary thing not the main objective in wvw. this is the main problem for many players. we also need better rewards like leaderboard ranks, rank emblems for our characters to keep up playing. you play for nothing after you unlock buffs you want in wvw. ppl don’t even know your rank level or experience in wvw. also skill lags make it impossible to fight in great numbers which discourages many players to play in wvw.

I never thought WvW was sposed to be 100% about PvP. I thought it was entirely intended to be a game mode of capture and hold.

Brando.1374:

Sube Dai.8496:

Add food and all other PvE gear to sPvP.

Add GvG game mode.

Add 1v1 random arena.

Profit.

this has been posted by many people but devs/spvp/tpvp dont want this because it will separate players from the “real” pvp in gw2.

Devs better want it if they want players in their game. Cause players are the real PvP, and as far as I can tell, there is no more real PvP, with the introduction of seasons, they killed WvW, SPvP was already dead, so what is left?

OP

What a Specatacular read.

Very well said and thank you! for abiding by the truth.

+10

Overthrust.2659:

GW1 was a great pvp game I dont know why they left the winner formula and came with this.. a grind fest with no serious spvp, and unbalance classes with broken mechanics.

I also want to know why myself.

As the saying goes, “when you neglect your root, you are forever lost”

+1 the truth has been spoken, for the billionth time.

Drkxamas.6359:

fugazi.5139:

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

+2

+3

+4

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

I most agree with your post, but that’s just false.
GW2 has NEVER been advertised as a PvP game by Arenanet.

Sad but true.

WVW could be improved a lot but i don’t think it was any kind of failure, quite the opposite.

sPVP on the other hand has almost no redeeming qualities, i don’t like a single thing about it.

Top dislikes about GW2 PVP:

• downed state. it’s so bad it’s IMO a gamekiller.
• skills/traits. not enough variety and meaningful player choice in skills, and traits are on the whole pretty ineffectual. bizarrely, the depth and variety of skills was GW1’s greatest strength and most game-defining trait.
• the spammy nature of combat/lack of a resource mechanic.

Everything else I can live with.

Assyrian.4827:

Drkxamas.6359:

fugazi.5139:

milo.6942:

AydenStar.4216:

this game is not a serious PvP game and should have never been advertised or treated as one.

+1

+2

+3

+4

+5

Syndrilious.9632:

Umut.5471:

pvd and lack of pk/pvp action is the main problem in wvw. let us earn points for our world by directly killing other players, not by ramming doors all day. 85%+ of the time you spend in wvw is pvd and walking between objectives. no this isn’t fun, pk/pvp is currently a secondary thing not the main objective in wvw. this is the main problem for many players. we also need better rewards like leaderboard ranks, rank emblems for our characters to keep up playing. you play for nothing after you unlock buffs you want in wvw. ppl don’t even know your rank level or experience in wvw. also skill lags make it impossible to fight in great numbers which discourages many players to play in wvw.

I never thought WvW was sposed to be 100% about PvP. I thought it was entirely intended to be a game mode of capture and hold.

It’s not about being 100% pvp, it’s about priorities in wvw. Currently it’s more capture and hold than pvp. I don’t mean they must be removed, but pvp action needs a boost for more fun. They can also add a new pvx zone(pvp zone that connected to pve like wvw) without castles/sieges for pure pvp action without modifying wvw.

mjharrison.3209:

Sad but true.

WVW could be improved a lot but i don’t think it was any kind of failure, quite the opposite.

sPVP on the other hand has almost no redeeming qualities, i don’t like a single thing about it.

Top dislikes about GW2 PVP:

• downed state. it’s so bad it’s IMO a gamekiller.
• skills/traits. not enough variety and meaningful player choice in skills, and traits are on the whole pretty ineffectual. bizarrely, the depth and variety of skills was GW1’s greatest strength and most game-defining trait.
• the spammy nature of combat/lack of a resource mechanic.

Everything else I can live with.

I agree with you.
Downed state makes playing with pugs nearly impossible, rally system needs to be fixed.
A new player enters spvp server, dies quickly and works as a rallybot for other team which affects other players’ gameplay. It’s same in wvw too. Rally and downed state system must be revised to make playing with random people better.

Rama.6439:

Brando.1374:

Sube Dai.8496:

Add food and all other PvE gear to sPvP.

Add GvG game mode.

Add 1v1 random arena.

Profit.

this has been posted by many people but devs/spvp/tpvp dont want this because it will separate players from the “real” pvp in gw2.

Devs better want it if they want players in their game. Cause players are the real PvP, and as far as I can tell, there is no more real PvP, with the introduction of seasons, they killed WvW, SPvP was already dead, so what is left?

I want the same thing man, but like I said this suggestion was shot down almost as soon at its posted in the pvp section.

I agree for the most part.

SPvP just feels wrong in so many ways. Class balance, game mode, visuals, lack of team-synergy, etc. etc. In the last weeks I played various MOBA games. And after playing them I really cannot bring myself to play SPvP anymore. It just feels boring and pointless. It’s simply not satisfying.

WvW could be nice. It’s special. It has potential. But it also has many issues. And it seems these issues are getting worse with every month. Mostly population imbalances, class balance (warrior, guardian, staff-ele, necro or gtfo), the increasing favoritism of zergs (hello AoE cap), the queue times and the lag, lag, lag.

The only reason why I still have GW2 on my harddisk was WvW. But since the beginning of the league this game mode isn’t playable anymore.

I’ve played this game since release. I tried WvW for the first time a few days ago. I was appalled. It should be called ZvZ. Two massive groups of players running around and when they meet, unbelievable lag and prayers that my AOE spells go off before I die. Needless to say I won’t be going back to it.

And yes, class balance is the one thing I am actually hoping for and have been hoping for since day 1.

Great post op. Totally agree on every point. Hopefully someone at Anet reads this.

Yep great post from Op.

pdg.8462:

I’ve played this game since release. I tried WvW for the first time a few days ago. I was appalled. It should be called ZvZ. Two massive groups of players running around and when they meet, unbelievable lag and prayers that my AOE spells go off before I die. Needless to say I won’t be going back to it.

And yes, class balance is the one thing I am actually hoping for and have been hoping for since day 1.

^^
this is why Most WvW open field fighters or GvG guilds want a debuff for zergs (zergs might be defined as 30+ in the same area)

when you meet a group of 10-20 there is no skill lag and the fight is usually very very fun