GW2 endgame is grind...
raid = content
looking good =/= content
Show me the objective definition where things that are in a game are not a part of the content of the game. Because I can tell you now that the dictionary doesn’t say anything about the word “content” only referring to raids.
Also, grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games.
In that case, doing different dungeons or other activities in order to earn tokens with which to buy the gear is not grinding, by that definition, yes?
Further, in order to get the right ring for your build and enough agony resistance to do the higher end fractals (the objective endgame for the people who want to incorrectly define endgame as dungeons), you have to go through fractals more than a couple times, unless RNG is super kind to you, right?
Therefore, grindy endgame.
raid = content
looking good =/= contentShow me the objective definition where things that are in a game are not a part of the content of the game. Because I can tell you now that the dictionary doesn’t say anything about the word “content” only referring to raids.
Now you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. You understand my point very well. No grind in this game will lock you out of content. Not even fractals, as you can experience all of them in greens up till lvl 9. That’s where it’s different from a lot of other MMOs.
Now you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing. You understand my point very well.
I could make the same assertion about you and everyone else arguing.
And no, I want to know where is this objective definition that an activity that is contained in a game is not, in fact, content. The activity in this case being the acquisition of a legendary. How is part of the contents of the game not part of the content?
One cannot say that they did everything in the game without having crafted the legendaries, so how is that not content?
And clearly they’re not going to be doing it at level 1, or until they hit level 80, so how is that not, then, end game content?
And clearly you’re going to have to earn the gold somehow, most likely by repetitive farming of events or dungeons, plus the Gifts which require repetitive runs through dungeons, so how is that end game content not locked behind grinding?
And no, I want to know where is this objective definition that an activity that is contained in a game is not, in fact, content. The activity in this case being the acquisition of a legendary. How is part of the contents of the game not part of the content?
The key argument here is what the definition of content is. But there isn’t one. The definition of content vs not is defined by the community and currently the popular opinion among many gamers is that unique activities are content while rewards are not.
You may disagree which is perfectly fine, and from your position gw2’s “endgame” is indeed very grindy. But also understand that others do not have the same definition and thus perceive the experience that gw2 offers in a different light than your own.
Many perceive unique experiences/activities (fights,lore,environments,etc) to be content. Anything else is generally considered an optional grind.
Because nothing in the process of making a legendary is an unique experience it is not considered content. Everything you need to do is from other parts of the game and is accessible whether are you working towards a legendary or not.
For example there is no special fight only accessible after you assemble the parts. Which is also why many other skins and gem store items are not generally considered content either, merely rewards(except for buying past LS chapters).
Raids, and to a lesser extent, dungeons, are not done merely for the rewards but for the process and experience of gaining said rewards. The fights themselves (and the lore associated) are considered content as they are typically unique experiences/activities not in other parts of the game and not accessible unless you raid. However, rewards that require multiple run throughs of the same dungeon/raid etc are not considered content but rather grinding for rewards.
It a fickle state of mind, “fun”. Easily gained but not easily kept.
[ICoa] Blackgate
(edited by dodgycookies.4562)
The key argument here is what the definition of content is. But there isn’t one.
No, there completely is.
Content is what is contained within a work, such as a book or a game. Therefore, anything contained within the game is content. It’s a dictionary definition, and is not subjective.
unique activities are content while rewards are not.
So the legendary itself is not the content, but the acquisition thereof (e.g. crafting, mystic forging, dungeon running) is. The crafting of said legendary in the mystic forge is an unique event which cannot be found elsewhere in the game.
Because nothing in the process of making a legendary is an unique experience it is not considered content. Everything you need to do is from other parts of the game and is accessible whether are you working towards a legendary or not.
This definition seems awfully precise for it to not be fabricated for the purpose of making legendary acquisition not be content. This is literally the first time I’ve ever heard the definition of content be broken down to such very specific aspects.
Edit: I also still have yet to be pointed to anything nearing evidence from a third party authority which officially defines content the way people are claiming it to be. I also still have yet to be told of any content in the game which does not result in the rewards being skins to prove that the “end game goal” is not officially to get skins regardless of how one chooses to play the game. Every time I ask for some proof, people back off and someone else joins in and restates the same thing without the requested proof.
I’ve provided the dictionary definition of content as my evidence of what the word “content” actually means. I’m awaiting someone to prove the dictionary wrong. Officially.
(edited by Filaha.1678)
Again you are trying to pin down people’s perceptions with definitions, which do not follow definitions or logic for that matter. Official statements don’t really matter, merely the mood of the player base.
Gem store items are in game and buyable though gold to gem conversion, and under the dictionary would be considered content. But no matter how loudly you or Anet proclaims that it is content(along with links to merriam-webster), a large portion of the playerbase does not consider it “content”, and will call them merely rewards or QoL services.
Players will define what they like and what they deem to be worthy of their time. If they like the activity it is now “content” if they like the reward but not the activity it is now a “grind”.
And while yes the mystic forging of a legendary is unique, it is not an activity that is quite unique or special enough to change the perception of many players.
If you have not heard that definition of content before, then welcome to the community. lol. Each game/community has its own perception of the definition of content that often morphs a lot., The current “popular opinion/definition” for mmo players is what i posted before.
Edit:(not really a “definition” persay, just my attempt to put into words the “feeling” of what a large portion of the community considers to be content)
[ICoa] Blackgate
(edited by dodgycookies.4562)
@Filaha
There’s a story being told here and you sound like you’re coming in in the middle of it. I don’t know what MMOs you’ve played in the past (not Guild Wars 1 which is not an MMO), but the traditional MMO end game funneled you into very specific activities to progress. That was it.
Though you could return to early zones, in most MMOs, things wouldn’t even attack you. You’d get no experience and no drops at your level at all. So in Guild Wars 2, you can stay in say Queensdale if that’s what you like, play for a really long time, and end up, eventually with enough gold to buy cool skins off the auction house.
I don’t grind. I don’t like grinding. I don’t have fun grinding. So I don’t do it. But I do have four legendaries. And I didn’t grind for any of them. They just took a long time.
So I did have to do 9 dungeon runs of a specific dungeon…but I could do them when I felt like them. When the guild was doing them. Doing a dungeon once a month to get a few tokens for a legendary may be grind to you, but you know, I run dungeons even when I’m not getting a legendary.
You used to have to grind WvW badges, but now they come in achievement point chests, which I get anyway.
The T6 mats drop in game, tier 5 mates can be upgraded or they can be bought on the trading post. The thing is…if you want it fast you can grind, or you can just play until you have either enough mats or enough money.
You can even do the world boss train and get the ectos you need, and then keep doing it to sell the extra ectos to fund the rest of the mats. But here’s the thing.
Traditionally grinding meant running the same content over and over. That is, you killed a boss repeatedly or killed mobs repeatedly.
Here you can do a lot of different things for mats, for gold, and yes some are more efficient than others, but everything works toward it. So one guy can pull out a credit card and one guy can farm iron and softwood in a low level zone and another guy can run around EotM.
If you want to call that grind, be my guest, but I don’t think most people would agree with you.
Again you are trying to pin down people’s perceptions with definitions, which do not follow definitions or logic for that matter. Official statements don’t really matter, merely the mood of the player base.
No.
That’s not how this works. If you want to say that my argument is wrong because you disagree with the dictionary definition of a word, then you have to prove that your definition of the word holds any more authority than the dictionary’s. Otherwise, I can simply assert that the definition being used is purely made up by the people claiming it’s not content, and can therefore be ignored because there is no factual basis for the argument.
Gem store items are in game and buyable though gold to gem conversion, and under the dictionary would be considered content. But no matter how loudly you or Anet proclaims that it is content, a large portion of the playerbase does not consider it “content”, merely rewards.
A “large portion” of the playerbase is wrong, then. Even if one did not consider gem store items to be “content” because there is no activity required to obtain them, then the activities undertaken to acquire the in-game content certainly is.
“Content” is not defined as you wish just because you want it to. Content has a very clear definition.
Now, unless some actual authoritative evidence regarding definitions is provided, and not the assertions of people who make up definitions to suit their argument, this “debate” ends with the statement that legendaries and the acquisition thereof are content, the acquisition of skins is the “end game goal”, and that to get said skins without spending real money requires some degree of grinding.
If anyone wishes to disprove that claim, then they will need to provide the following:
1. An authoritative definition of “content” that defies the dictionary definition, being that which is contained with a work or set of works.
2. An official activity (or to be more accurate, official activities) designed for level 80 that does not result in or focus on the acquisition of skins.
3. A manner in which to get those skins which does not require any form of grinding and/or paying real money.
Again you are trying to pin down people’s perceptions with definitions, which do not follow definitions or logic for that matter. Official statements don’t really matter, merely the mood of the player base.
No.
That’s not how this works. If you want to say that my argument is wrong because you disagree with the dictionary definition of a word, then you have to prove that your definition of the word holds any more authority than the dictionary’s. Otherwise, I can simply assert that the definition being used is purely made up by the people claiming it’s not content, and can therefore be ignored because there is no factual basis for the argument.
Gem store items are in game and buyable though gold to gem conversion, and under the dictionary would be considered content. But no matter how loudly you or Anet proclaims that it is content, a large portion of the playerbase does not consider it “content”, merely rewards.
A “large portion” of the playerbase is wrong, then. Even if one did not consider gem store items to be “content” because there is no activity required to obtain them, then the activities undertaken to acquire the in-game content certainly is.
“Content” is not defined as you wish just because you want it to. Content has a very clear definition.
Yes it has no factual basis
and yes you may assert the opinion of the a large portion community to be wrong,
and yes of course you can ignore it.
You can conclude that legendaries are content and thus requires grinding, but many people here will still disagree. Despite all the facts you have.
That is just fine, but it will not change said opinion. You can argue until your keyboard breaks, but it will not change people’s opinion
But you chose to post on the forums to get feedback, and the voice of the community responded. You may be dismayed at the response and confused, but you have to accept it for what it is. A bunch of people with pretty entrenched opinions that are different than yours.
This is PR and public perception, in the where opinion trumps facts, and 1+1 does not equal 2.
[ICoa] Blackgate
(edited by dodgycookies.4562)
Yes it has no factual basis
and yes you may assert the opinion of the a large portion community to be wrong,
and yes of course you can ignore it.You can conclude that legendaries are content and thus requires grinding, but many people here will still disagree. Despite all the facts you have.
Good. It doesn’t matter whether or not people disagree. What matters is that without a factual basis to back up their argument, they cannot say that mine is wrong.
That is just fine, but it will not change said opinion. You can argue until your keyboard breaks, but it will not change people’s opinion
I’m not trying to. If you look at my actual initial post in this thread, I am not trying to change anybody’s mind. I simply made a statement. It was other people attempting to change my mind that ballooned into this.
Had people had the sense to simply say “Well, my definition of content and my definition of grinding and my definition of end game disagrees with you, but yours is equally, if not more, valid,” this would have been a lot shorter of a thread.
But you chose to post on the forums to get feedback, and the voice of the community responded.
No, my post didn’t require, nor seek, feedback at all. It was a response to the people shrugging off there being a grind in this game as “all MMOs have grind”.
Mostly like Vayue said.
@ Filaha
Every player have their own measurement of grind. I remember my first and favorite MMO: PSO 1 (@2000). The game had 4 maps only (around 3~4 zones and each zone got about 3~4 variable), the lv was originally max at 100.
There are hundreds of special weapon skins, the game has no TP, no face to face trade, no item mailing. The drop rate was huge RNG, mostly below 0.01% and loot table are separate into 10 IDs, that means you want an items out of your ID table, you have to find someone got different loot id to yours. You can’t trade by mail, nor buy from TP. Your only option is loot or trade by dropping items on the ground.
Then the game added lv101 to lv200, remake the map to a ultimate mode. Adding another hundreds of rare skins locked inside this ultimate mode, and render all your super fancy weapons pre-ultimate mode useless. Most terrible thing is leveling experience needed. After 300 runs i was at lv117 only…. same maps over and over again…
Thats grind….
GW2, not so much to me.
What matters is that without a factual basis to back up their argument, they cannot say that mine is wrong.
Even with no facts, they can and will tell you that you are wrong. Welcome to internet forums =)
By responding with debate you are basically stating: bring it on.
[ICoa] Blackgate
Wow, endgame is grind.
Christ.
Some people have chosen a game they want to play either poorly or they really don’t know what they want and will complain about anything.
Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?
While you may think that skins == endgame that is incorrect on a game wide level.
Take that up with Arenanet, who are clearly focusing on the acquisition of skins for endgame and all content. Name me one aspect of the content short of “running around randomly” that doesn’t result in skins as a reward. This isn’t subjective. It’s objective. Arenanet is clearly focusing on skins for rewards for doing whatever type of content they offer.
If you want to view it that way then so be it, that is a totally subjective opinion. There is no statement from Areanet to substantiate your claim and that is all it is without words to the same effect from the devs. You are simply assuming that skins are the endgame due to it being a reward for doing certain events or crafting certain things.
We will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Peace.
(edited by Castrin.8972)
Dictionary definitions are not objective. Often times they are determined by a consensus of opinion among employees or associates of a corporation or other organization based on perceptions of current common use.
Context is extremely important to word definition due to frequent use of words to have meaning or nuance specific to a given subculture or endeavor.
This is not to say that dictionary definitions are not important. They provide a, mostly, solid baseline for communicating in a given language, but claiming that their contents are objective is incorrect.
- Mobs don’t fight back properly, super easy to kill on lvl 80, especially with only 1 type of build, which is DPS berserker.
- Mobs that come with the new content, will always use high HP-Low Armor design, which means any other combat mechanics which don’t involve dealing huge amount of Direct Dmg in burst, will never get enough damage dealt to fullfill the contributions on their own. Conditions, boon manipulations and etc. This applies mostly on open world PvE tho.
I wonder what do these have to do with “grinding”
Endgame is whatever you make of it.
To me endgame in GW2 is:
1. Raiding WvW with my guild, have all the GWEN classes ready to roll for it.
2. Mastering all the classes in SPvP (which may actually take A LOT of time).
3. Just doing some other random stuff with the guild or on my own.
So in short, GW2 endgame to me is definitely not grind. It’s simply doing what I feel like doing the most at any given moment I’m online.
Dunno why people take games as some sort of job that they have to do? Yeah, that’s when it turns into a grind…
<snip>
Still no answer… When the next CDI on raids comes I will be sure to note to Anet to create new legendaries because they are equal to Raids according to you, since missing a Legendary (a simple skin) is the same as missing a whole Raid (way more than just a skin)
There is no portion of the game you are missing if you choose not to make a Legendary. You are missing a huge part of the game if you choose not to Raid (especially in Raid-centric games). That’s the simple difference and why you can’t compare the two.
As for the initial argument that started this whole discussion:
@people saying all MMOs are grinding:
Not all MMOs say the following, though:
So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill
Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward.
We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun.
1) An actual grinding treadmill requires ongoing power creep and vertical power progression. Still missing the ongoing part, while the vertical power progression is negligible. There has been no additional tier added into the game since Ascended. In the “traditional” power creep you have to continue grinding to stay competitive with other players. In GW2, once you get a Legendary it’s all over, it will stay with max stats forever (or so they say). Even Ascended is max tier, without any promises of it staying though, but years passed and nothing happened. So it’s not exactly a treadmill -yet
2) You do not have to “prepare” to have fun, nor you must grind in order to start getting a future fun reward. You can start your journey towards Ascended/Legendary from level 1 without prerequisities. There is no grinding required in order to start getting anything. You don’t have to do certain content in order to access other content (doing story mode before entering explorable mode is the sole exception but can bypassed easily)
3) There was a huge discussion about that ages ago, how that particular phrase was taken out of context. Some Manifesto Warrior might be able to shed more light about that.
Notice how non of your own points have anything to do with mandatory or not content. Absolutely nothing
Yes, anyone can take a line out of context and make it sounds like it means something it doesn’t. The manifesto line “we don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2, no one finds it fun” is one such line.
Because the paragraph starts and ends on combat, anyone with a relatively basic understanding of the language should know that Anet is talking about combat.
See, in the old days, grinding was a very specific thing and to old MMO players grinding is still that thing. Killing mobs to level. That’s what Anet is talking about in that passage. I swung a sword, I swung it again, I swung it again….we want to change the way people view COMBAT.
There’s no mention of gear or progression in that statement at all. In a lot of games, even games that have come out recently, you have to grind to level. Anet wanted to give people a different leveling experience, so some people do events, some do world completely, some craft and pretty much everything gives you experience. Now even if you PvP you can gain levels. That’s what Colin was talking about.
How do I know? Because he spoke about it quite frequently back then at conventions and that’s what he said. Anyone who wants to twist it’s meaning to mean something else is doing just that. Twisting the original meaning. Which is why it’s dangerous to take phrases out of context years after something is said. None of the surround conversation gets heard.
This is the first setences of the Wikipedia definition of grind as it applies to video games:
Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games.12 The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like Realm of the Mad God, Tibia, or Lineage 3 in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content.
This was the concept most old timers were aware of. The combination of the quote itself, the context that’s missing and the conversation and answers around at that time, definitely from Anet tell us what we need to know about how that was used.
No matter how people try to twist it.
If you’re noticing it, then maybe it’s because you’re playing simply to get some kind of status symbol, or reward, rather than for the enjoyment you get from the game.
Arenadrones pls, find a new argument. I mean if you enjoy doing the same exact grindy content you’ve been doing for the past 2 years….well that’s probably your thing.
Yes it is became grindfest, but I dont mind grinding for something but in this game you need to grind your kitten off for some stuff.
Only thing needed for long term grind is legendary (which I did in 40 days).
I have done all dungeons 100+ times, I have all possible gears with runes sigils etc, bought all gemstore armors what I liked…I have practically nothing to do in this game, maybe to do fractals to 50 and then what?…
It’s only a grind as long as you go in with the mentality that it IS a grind.
I’m a WvW:er. I haven’t done a single dungeon since launch and only tried out fractals during one odd evening; basically, I don’t PvE outside sporadic map completetion while waiting for queues and whatnot. I got my full ascended armor and weapons by enjoying the game and leaving the crafting to when I either had enough money to buy materials, or simply had gathered enough from the game. Never at any point did I have to stop my regular playing to grind somewhere to get any of it.
For me, endgame is WvW. It’s the only area of the game that has an ongoing purpose – to see your server win the matchups and fight other people for the fun of it. It’s the same type of thing that keeps standard deathmatch games going; it’s not about some physical reward in the game itself — Hell, WvW rewards don’t exactly have the best track record — it’s simply about having a good time.
No, I can’t get those fancy collections, achievement points and whatever else there is with my current playstyle, but do I have to? Nope. Do I want to? Not really, they serve me no purpose but to waste my time doing something I don’t like.
I really see no need to have 100% of the game, but if I did, I would be stupid to not expect a grind – nothing is 100% fun in life and games are not an exception.
TL,DR: Why are you doing something you don’t like and complain that it’s boring? Find the fun parts, stick to it and ignore the rest. A game is supposed to be fun, something to escape reality for a second. Don’t make it into a job.
(edited by splatticus.1278)
Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games.12 The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like Realm of the Mad God, Tibia, or Lineage 3 in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content.
I think you mean Lineage 2 ^^
But yeah .. that was my first MMO .. and who ever played that game in the release version or at least before the F2P changes, knows what “grind” really means.
Staying at the same spot for 10 hours killing mobs to get 1-2% of exp .. that is grind.
What people call grind here should maybe also better be named as “farming” since
its in the end more optional to earn more wealth, but it isn’t something you have
to do just to get to max level and get the best gear.
And the little differnce that ascended makes, especially if you play content under
level 80, is really not compareable to the difference that raid-gear in other MMOs
make compared to crafted armor there.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
This whole thing can be summed up in one word….
sub·jec·tive adjective \(?)s?b-?jek-tiv\
philosophy : relating to the way a person experiences things in his or her own mind
: based on feelings or opinions rather than facts
This is how someone can say X is grindy but not Y.
/thread
Source: Merriam Webster Dictionary.
Edited to list source.
I’ve been to Silverwastes, full berserker does extremely well, and I don’t need to use all combat mechanics. Just stand near mob and spam skills…
Although my problem is the lack of content for “casual PvE adventures”, mobs that can kill me but not too hard, move around the game world without starting repetive grinding for mats and etc.
Pretty much what ANet told that the game should be played, no repetive grinding since there’s nothing else, either farm PvE easy mobs or go super serious no-casual on PvP…
PvP is not that casual…
If we’d use all combat mechanics in PvE, the RNG would have higher success rates, but easy mobs means farmers and botters would wreck the GW2 economy, thus it was set to very low, even if you have 300% magic find…
I’m a casual PvE adventurer, I enjoy combat, adventure and helping, but not farming.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
I am basing these on for playing GW2 from 3 day early access on release date until last month…
Everyday intense playing as much as possible.
“Casual PvE Adventurer” worked well on GW1, I didn’t engage on farming, other than some green weapons I wanted, would say I did 100 times less farming in GW1, when compared to GW2.
All I did was move around PvE areas and combat mobs, then salvage and sell the loot I gathered.
I never bothered play GW1 or GW2 with lvls between 1-20 or 1-80, my casual adventures always began on max lvl. I also aimed for maximum gear as soon as possible.
In GW1, it was adventures and engaging combat. All loot from that adventures were enough to get near perfect lvl 20 gear…
In GW2 combat works only for lvls 1-79, at lvl 80, mobs become nothing, just small slow down if ignored, not a death threat.
Although it’s very clear, that ANet aims for casual gamers that play about once a week or less, which is reflected on mobs and RNG in Magic Find…
Mobs are super easy, so the RNG has to reflect that, since if it were higher, hardcore farmers and botters would wreck GW2 economy by over farming everything without any kind of opposition…
Do note: “Casual PvE Adventurer” means solo for huge part of the time, no parties or hard content, no repeated same type farming. Only play through game area, move to next one, mob opposition is enough enterntainment and loot. Champions are too hard, they kill players more than they die and they always require specific build, so there’s no freedom of build usage.
Every time I played GW2,
- Berserker was the most efficient build, anything else barely did well at all. If random player or bot came by, which are always geared with berserker and DPS build since majority are farmers using the easiest possible build to get huge amount of loot, they’d overkill the mob I’m trying to kill.
- Since group content was easy to take part, but is only possible with full berserker DPS build, any other build will result in low contributions.
- At lvl 80, I was reduced to farming of resource nodes only. When world bosses were given solid schedule, I tried those too, but only with full berserker gear and DPS build, which were requirement.
- Partying up is no go, since it takes too much time and party might disband suddenly, causing total loss of anykind of contribution.
- Mobs were super easy, because learning GW2 combat mechanics was viewed as impossible thing for players, according to ANets actions so far.
- Usable builds in solo were limited due to lack of mob ability to combat, huge majority of mobs (with exception of high armor husks, only different mobs) shared common stat combination of “High HP-Low Armor-High DMG per Attack-Long activation cooldown”.
High HP combats conditions
Low Armor reduces other damage source usage, since Direct Dmg sources deal damage without any limitations
High Dmg per attack is cheap solution for enforcing players to dodge, but since mobs die faster than they attack, it’s pretty much nothing.
Long activation cooldown works on all actions mobs do, attack, skill activation, etc. since mobs die faster than they attack, it’s same results…
Over 2 kittening years…
I’m a casual PvE adventurer, I enjoy combat, adventure and helping, but not farming.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
I rarely do PvP or Hard PvE, unless it’s organized.
Endgame is WvW, GvG, PvP and fractals. Then there is doing the Living Story when it comes out.