Guild Wars 2

Hey,

There’s something i got to get off my chest.
First about me, i’ve worked with vulnerable families of our society in my education, and i believe i got a certain experience with the topic of poverty and games.

The living story strategy and especially RNG money-items is something i feel is directly targetting the lower demographics of our society. Legendairy’s on the trading post, molten weapons, now the new flesh-like weapons, limited time only “get it now” items, it all points to a certain type of player.

When we look at the poor demographic, a buy once mmo is especially attractive, since the time you get for your money is much more then other games. Actually mmo’s in general attract this demographic because these people often look for a way to compensate feeling bad about themselves, having toon with nice stuff on it is like a way to get away from the real world. It resembles the habit you see with these families having a nice car, to sort of show to the world that they are something. Working with these people starts with making them realise they can’t have everything, and teaching them to learn value and to deal with modern day marketing.

And it’s this modern day marketing, wich clearly is a problem, that GW2 is not trying to squeeze people with. Limited time, get it now or you’ll never get it… Seriously do i need to go on? Molten weapons could only be gotten in the last patch, there was time pressure mixed with gambling, all coupled to a system with credit-card. The target audience is definitely the people that value their ingame look above all, and these people often are the demographic i mentioned earlier.

Now don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying if you bough something on the gemstore you are part of this demographic, but i’m saying these people are extremely week to these kind of marketing techniques, and while young uneployed people are rising, the number of players with debts and cash problems rises. These people often justify the purchases with “but if i don’t buy it now i can never have it”.

Another thing that plays right into this, is the fact that legendairy’s are on the trading post, for us it may not matter, but it takes away the feeling of legendairy’s being unique and special, while making them just available for nothing for people with lots of cash. This is percieved unfair by many, and especially to those who don’t have the cash to do this (cause in their mind they believe everyone else does it).

The main point i’m trying to make, there is a system now that exploits people by forcing them to buy things in a certain time period. (and i get why, cause if someone loved molten weapons, but loves the new weapons more, you get twice the income)
While most of use may not mind this at all or just don’t care (maybe cause it’s been proven before that people who make more money often care less about these kinds of little “must have” things.), there are people who are no doubt already in debt, who feel compelled and almost forced to purchase all these little things. It’s not right to exploit the ones who already have a hard time in our society with cheap tricks and marketing!

Now you are probally wondering what is the right system to sell these things in, and how something could be made where Arenanet still makes the money they need while having a store that doesn’t exploit the weak. I’d say look at the steam system. (but instead of games imagine it with items) It’s far from perfect i will admit, but most of the problems are caused by the fact that different companies have to work together to put things on steam. Arenanet managing a steam like store would be way more logical.
Buy an item when it first comes out-> pay the full price, no limited time items. After a period, put it in a sale, price it down, put it in an item bundle, and so on… This takes the purchase-now pressure away, and will make people think about “if i wait a while i may get it cheaper”. And most of all, drop the RNG when talking about real money items. I know RNG makes it all that more special, but it’s this “special” that is so kitten dangerous to the poor demographic.

I’m sorry i had to put it this way but as someone who has personally seen what these kind of tactics in any market can do to families, i really hope this isn’t the way GW2 is going. Games should be fun and engaging, not praying on those who can’t resist these urges. And right now GW2 is doing this, it is the only reason why this type of limited sales excist imo, is to force people to buy it now, or never be able to.

Entertainment praying on those who need it the most, that’s just scary to me.

Fox

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

-__-

…that’s all you’re getting

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

Of course they are, is it right? No. But a lot of gaming companies will do it.

Fox.3469:

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

If someone wants out of poverty they’re not going to achieve that end if they lack the basic self-control to refrain from purchasing lottery tickets whose only payouts are virtual cosmetic items. Blaming ArenaNet for this fact is just silly.

Cloud.7613:

Of course they are, is it right? No. But a lot of gaming companies will do it.

I agree that allot of companies are doing simular stuff, but at least in western games ive never seen RNG tactics like this, concerning real money, and that imo is more then anything else exploiting the said demographic.

Fox.3469:

Cloud.7613:

Of course they are, is it right? No. But a lot of gaming companies will do it.

I agree that allot of companies are doing simular stuff, but at least in western games ive never seen RNG tactics like this, concerning real money, and that imo is more then anything else exploiting the said demographic.

I personally have no problem with it, because at the end of the day GW2 is a product that needs to make money. My only problem with it is when people complain about this, they’re stone faced in light of the complaints, I find it bold and unsettling.

I agree completely. However I must point out that even if they took legendaries out of the TP they’d still have a serious problem with them not being special because of the lopsided loot rule in this title. It pretty much ensures that people have to buy the materials (T6) in the store in order to get them.

People will most likely argue that the RNG boxes they sell for laurels and for karma is the key solution for the T6 problem however, we’ve seen even with people who have the usual experience of actually receiving lots of high quality loot most of the time, still don’t receive anywhere near the amount of T6 mats necessary to prevent this from becoming a serious economic problem for players. So more RNG for an RNG problem does not an RNG solution make.

darkace.8925:

Fox.3469:

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

If someone wants out of poverty they’re not going to achieve that end if they lack the basic self-control to refrain from purchasing lottery tickets whose only payouts are virtual cosmetic items. Blaming ArenaNet for this fact is just silly.

I don’t agree. I think it is unfair and immoral for a company to specificly target these specific people.

Exploiting vulnerable people? You mean people with poor self control and decision making skills? It’s like those fat people suing McDonalds for making them fat. This exists regardless of economic status. Rich and poor people can waste their money just the same.

huh? if anything, the RNG in the cash shop targets those who have money to burn.

Poor people gamble for that small chance that they’d win and pull them out of poverty. Gambling for items in some video game cash shop, with no real world monetary value, won’t ‘pull you out of poverty’, and is just a complete waste of money, money that a poor gambler would rather spend on some lottery ticket.

Fox.3469:

I think it is unfair and immoral for a company to specificly target these specific people.

I think it’s a bit much to claim they’re specifically targeting anyone …

Where do these exploitable downtrodden get the entry cash to play the game? Don’t really believe it is the poorest of poor that would even be considering playing this game.

The RNG is not specifically targeted at a vulnerable demographic, it’s targeted at everyone. Making the skins a random increases their overall revenue.

darkace.8925:

Fox.3469:

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

If someone wants out of poverty they’re not going to achieve that end if they lack the basic self-control to refrain from purchasing lottery tickets whose only payouts are virtual cosmetic items. Blaming ArenaNet for this fact is just silly.

Yes, we shouldn’t blame the crack dealer! We should blame the crack!

Are you freaking serious?

On a side note: I don’t think it’s targeting any demographic except people who are exceptionally poor at math.

kokocabana.8153:

Exploiting vulnerable people? You mean people with poor self control and decision making skills? It’s like those fat people suing McDonalds for making them fat. This exists regardless of economic status. Rich and poor people can waste their money just the same.

Excellent point. Self-control and impulse buying are not problems limited to those below the poverty line.

Aeonblade.8709:

darkace.8925:

Fox.3469:

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

If someone wants out of poverty they’re not going to achieve that end if they lack the basic self-control to refrain from purchasing lottery tickets whose only payouts are virtual cosmetic items. Blaming ArenaNet for this fact is just silly.

Yes, we shouldn’t blame the crack dealer! We should blame the crack!

Are you freaking serious?

Yes, I’m freaking serious. Are you? Are seriously going to equivocate chemical addition to poor money management? Seriously? Like freaking seriously?

gfox.6501:

huh? if anything, the RNG in the cash shop targets those who have money to burn.

Poor people gamble for that small chance that they’d win and pull them out of poverty. Gambling for items in some video game cash shop, with no real world monetary value, won’t ‘pull you out of poverty’, and is just a complete waste of money, money that a poor gambler would rather spend on some lottery ticket.

This is by fact incorrect, research has proven that RNG makes the item special, directly playing into the feeling of “maybe i’ll get lucky”, and the restraint to stop with this often disappears with the lower class. It’s not so much about gambling rather then having something special to them, and that’s the danger, they don’t see it as gambling. Putting a few as drops in the game even enforces this feeling more.

You often see how people in said demographic have a nice car or nice clothes while living in total misery at home, it’s the act they want to keep up, and that’s focussed on having something special. This feeling translates into games aswell.

What i notice about reactions so far is that few people don’t seem to realise how difficult it is to break out a cycle of poverty. What doesn’t matter to you may be what keeps someone else alive, many people cling to games for this, just cause they need something to hang on to, and praying on those people is wrong and immoral.

So now internet connections and gaming PCs are common among the poor?

darkace.8925:

Aeonblade.8709:

darkace.8925:

Fox.3469:

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

If someone wants out of poverty they’re not going to achieve that end if they lack the basic self-control to refrain from purchasing lottery tickets whose only payouts are virtual cosmetic items. Blaming ArenaNet for this fact is just silly.

Yes, we shouldn’t blame the crack dealer! We should blame the crack!

Are you freaking serious?

Yes, I’m freaking serious. Are you? Are seriously going to equivocate chemical addition to poor money management? Seriously? Like freaking seriously?

I just did, freaking seriously. What are you going to do? Complain that it’s not the same? Oh well! Gambling is just as addictive to some people as crack is. If you don’t like the comparison, tough kitten

Fox.3469:

gfox.6501:

huh? if anything, the RNG in the cash shop targets those who have money to burn.

Poor people gamble for that small chance that they’d win and pull them out of poverty. Gambling for items in some video game cash shop, with no real world monetary value, won’t ‘pull you out of poverty’, and is just a complete waste of money, money that a poor gambler would rather spend on some lottery ticket.

This is by fact incorrect, RNG makes the item special, directly playing into the feeling of “maybe i’ll get lucky”, and the restraint to stop with this often disappears with the lower class. It’s not so much about gambling rather then having something special to them, and that’s the danger, they don’t see it as gambling. Putting a few as drops in the game even enforces this feeling more.

You often see how people in said demographic have a nice car or nice clothes while living in total misery at home, it’s the act they want to keep up, and that’s focussed on having something special. This feeling translates into games aswell.

Wait, are you now saying the “I want to be a special snowflake” line of thinking is one exclusively found among poor people? Please tell me I read that wrong. Either way, this thread is getting more and more ridiculous each time you guys post; so I’m out.

The way I see it, if people are spending money to purchase these cosmetic items, I feel less guilty for spending only $120-ish (the box plus a few gem store things) and the rest is just in-game gold.

The company does need to make a profit, but as long as they keep putting in nice skins that don’t require spending gems, I’m good with the status quo. Everyone gets a few shots at some lottery jackpots by just playing (so far I’ve gotten 3 ‘jackpots’ from things like holiday bags/chests and other things worth over 50 gold) and at the end of the day, aesthetically pleasing doesn’t equal rarity. For instance, those new back pieces or even the ascended non-book/quiver parts look bleh…I still keep my Mad King chronicle back piece on my elementalist and hide it for all other characters.

darkace.8925:

Fox.3469:

gfox.6501:

huh? if anything, the RNG in the cash shop targets those who have money to burn.

Poor people gamble for that small chance that they’d win and pull them out of poverty. Gambling for items in some video game cash shop, with no real world monetary value, won’t ‘pull you out of poverty’, and is just a complete waste of money, money that a poor gambler would rather spend on some lottery ticket.

This is by fact incorrect, RNG makes the item special, directly playing into the feeling of “maybe i’ll get lucky”, and the restraint to stop with this often disappears with the lower class. It’s not so much about gambling rather then having something special to them, and that’s the danger, they don’t see it as gambling. Putting a few as drops in the game even enforces this feeling more.

You often see how people in said demographic have a nice car or nice clothes while living in total misery at home, it’s the act they want to keep up, and that’s focussed on having something special. This feeling translates into games aswell.

Wait, are you now saying the “I want to be a special snowflake” line of thinking is one exclusively found among poor people? Please tell me I read that wrong. Either way, this thread is getting more and more ridiculous each time you guys post; so I’m out.

Thank god, back to the topic at hand:

Yes, studies have shown that those lower on the poverty scale tend to have more problems with gambling due to the incorrect assumption that they are going to be the ones that finally get lucky. They will try to rationalize this as they are “owed” the item/money/thing, and lose control over their actions.

I still don’t think Anet is DELIBERATELY targeting these people, it’s just a by product.

So next time I see a Salvation Army collection box I should drop in a gem card…

I thought I’d seen it all on this forum.

Your premise is extremely flawed.

Please post evidence that substantiates your hypothesis that ANet is specifically targeting the impoverished demographic. And no, analogies don’t count as evidence.

You claim to have ‘certain experience’ with what you term the ‘lower class’. It seems you find those of a lower economic standing incapable of rational thought, little moral fortitude (no restraint), addicts (gambling references), liars (keeping up acts), and incapable of managing finances (no doubt in debt). As such, I hope I never am in need of your kind of ‘help’.

Not this again…. They seriously need to start merging these RNG threads.

Fox.3469:

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

you should not have a computer good enough to run this MMO in poverty. And those people do not have 0 self control. If to talk about who suffers from this then it would be gambling addicts only.

This entire post is just silly and frankly plain ignorant.
The idea behind a “One time only” deal is that is makes EVERYONE think to themselves, “Should I get this or not?” . EVERYONE. Those “poor” people don’t need to buy a thing because entire game and all the free added content is already available to them. Implying that GW2 is the thing keeping them poor is completely insulting to not only Anet but also those “targeted” players. On top of that, YOU CAN BUY GEMS WITH GOLD. All I see here is someone who is really kitten about something (probably losing to RNG) or has a bone to pick with companies for using legit sales methods. You want to see terrible? Take a look at Vindictus run by Nexon. THAT is what you should be campaigning against. But GW2? Really? Just no.

Mirta.5029:

Fox.3469:

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

you should not have a computer good enough to run this MMO in poverty. And those people do not have 0 self control. If to talk about who suffers from this then it would be gambling addicts only.

Actually a large chunk of American’s living below the poverty line can certainly afford a computer. Do you know how poverty is actually defined in the US? It certainly doesn’t mean you are flat broke without anything :P

To be fair you hardly notice these things in game. There are no pop ups telling me to buy black lion keys etc – no big “buy me” links littered all over the UI. I receive usually one email and other than that I only see the store when navigating to the TP.

There is no targeted exploitation going on, just some marketing strategies are perhaps a bit overused.

Aeonblade.8709:

darkace.8925:

Fox.3469:

gfox.6501:

huh? if anything, the RNG in the cash shop targets those who have money to burn.

Poor people gamble for that small chance that they’d win and pull them out of poverty. Gambling for items in some video game cash shop, with no real world monetary value, won’t ‘pull you out of poverty’, and is just a complete waste of money, money that a poor gambler would rather spend on some lottery ticket.

This is by fact incorrect, RNG makes the item special, directly playing into the feeling of “maybe i’ll get lucky”, and the restraint to stop with this often disappears with the lower class. It’s not so much about gambling rather then having something special to them, and that’s the danger, they don’t see it as gambling. Putting a few as drops in the game even enforces this feeling more.

You often see how people in said demographic have a nice car or nice clothes while living in total misery at home, it’s the act they want to keep up, and that’s focussed on having something special. This feeling translates into games aswell.

Wait, are you now saying the “I want to be a special snowflake” line of thinking is one exclusively found among poor people? Please tell me I read that wrong. Either way, this thread is getting more and more ridiculous each time you guys post; so I’m out.

Thank god, back to the topic at hand:

Yes, studies have shown that those lower on the poverty scale tend to have more problems with gambling due to the incorrect assumption that they are going to be the ones that finally get lucky. They will try to rationalize this as they are “owed” the item/money/thing, and lose control over their actions.

I still don’t think Anet is DELIBERATELY targeting these people, it’s just a by product.

I can see that rational for actual gambling, but there’s no physical gain from the ‘gambling’ in an online game. I mean, you can’t sell your gold for dollars so spending money to get lucky in this game gets you virtually nothing.

Aeonblade.8709:

Yes, studies have shown that those lower on the poverty scale tend to have more problems with gambling due to the incorrect assumption that they are going to be the ones that finally get lucky. They will try to rationalize this as they are “owed” the item/money/thing, and lose control over their actions.

I still don’t think Anet is DELIBERATELY targeting these people, it’s just a by product.

I think there is a big difference between claiming that people of unfortunate economic are trying to “get lucky” and win the lottery for real money and the likelihood that the same person will think, “Well I didn’t win the lottery so I’ll log in to GW2 to see if I can win a skin of no monetary value.”

People with low income that do play the lottery do so in the hope that they will no longer be low income. I willing to bet that if you approached someone struggling financially and said give me $100 and you might win this shirt you can look at on the computer but not wear they would think you are nuts.

To be clear, i’m a GW2 and A-Net supporter, the reason i made this post is because I believe that this is a problem.
I also realise that these marketing techniques affect everyone. Altough not everyone is as vulnerable.

Most of all i ask myself why this is needed?
Why can the molten mining pick and others be in for a few weeks only, why do these weapons require real money RNG.
What’s wrong with a store where things come in, go on sale after a while and then find a lower price to stagnate then the new stuff?

Actually in most places unemployment is going down, stocks are doing better than they have in years. Many people have found good jobs, veterans are getting lower in unemployment, overall i think we are doing well.

As for a demographic, I think it is rude to call people “weak” because they purchase chests or any RNG items. You get items, I like items, you like items, if you purchase them thinking I will get X item, then you probably won’t. I see this discussion all the time, weak players, unemployed, kids with moms credit cards. You don’t find that rude?

I fought for my country, I’m a disabled veteran with a wife a child and full time college. And yet i enjoy the occasional RNG box, karma box what have you. I find it rude and poorly worded for you to say that Arenanet is somehow taking advantage of people with weak wills, or large pockets. Who are you or anyone to judge other players on our actions.

You don’t like RNG stuff, don’t buy it. Don’t impose your belief that everyone is terrible, poor, weak, pathetic, unemployed who gets these. Some of us understand the chances and odds and are totally fine with that, I can always use some armor boosters or more trans stones (even though I’m at 120…). People who complain about others buying optional skins just sound jealous and entitled. I’m sorry I have money and can spend it on random things because I’m able to pay my bills and live comfortably.

Aeonblade.8709:

Yes, studies have shown that those lower on the poverty scale tend to have more problems with gambling due to the incorrect assumption that they are going to be the ones that finally get lucky. They will try to rationalize this as they are “owed” the item/money/thing, and lose control over their actions.

I still don’t think Anet is DELIBERATELY targeting these people, it’s just a by product.

I think there is a big difference between claiming that people of unfortunate economic status are trying to “get lucky” and win the lottery for real money and the likelihood that the same person will think, “Well I didn’t win the lottery so I’ll log in to GW2 to see if I can win a skin of no monetary value.”

People with low income that do play the lottery do so in the hope that they will no longer be low income. I’m willing to bet that if you approached someone struggling financially and said give me $100 and you might win this shirt you can look at on the computer but not wear they would think you are nuts.

Aeonblade.8709:

Mirta.5029:

Fox.3469:

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

you should not have a computer good enough to run this MMO in poverty. And those people do not have 0 self control. If to talk about who suffers from this then it would be gambling addicts only.

Actually a large chunk of American’s living below the poverty line can certainly afford a computer. Do you know how poverty is actually defined in the US? It certainly doesn’t mean you are flat broke without anything :P

then you’re not that much in poverty, are you? In Lithuania poverty means not having heating in winter, eating 2 meals a day maximum and sometimes wearing bags on your feet instead of shoes.
Speaking about UK – at this point me and my boyfriend are solely living out of the jobless help money thing, because I’m a student and can’t work and he can’t get work. And tell you what – not once have I thought about gambling money meant for food and electricity away.

Cloud.7613:

Of course they are, is it right? No. But a lot of gaming companies will do it.

Sure it is right. That is how marketing works. You sell it in a way to breed desire. This works on both poor people and non-poor people alike.

IMO the issue is not with ANet. It is with one of or a combination of any of the following:

1. your upbringing. If you have no self control over this sort of thing, your parents did not do a great job of teaching you to budget.

2. Credit cards. We live in a society full of debt and everyone is getting more and more in debt. Why pay now when you can pay later? Oh but I can buy it now and earn the money later! etc

3. Lack of education – which may relate to poorer education to poorer people – resulting in the inability to critically think about the outcome.

Jemmi.6058:

Cloud.7613:

Of course they are, is it right? No. But a lot of gaming companies will do it.

Sure it is right. That is how marketing works. You sell it in a way to breed desire. This works on both poor people and non-poor people alike.

IMO the issue is not with ANet. It is with one of or a combination of any of the following:

1. your upbringing. If you have no self control over this sort of thing, your parents did not do a great job of teaching you to budget.

2. Credit cards. We live in a society full of debt and everyone is getting more and more in debt. Why pay now when you can pay later? Oh but I can buy it now and earn the money later! etc

3. Lack of education – which may relate to poorer education to poorer people – resulting in the inability to critically think about the outcome.

These are very important factors i agree, but both 1 and 3 are a cycle from generation to generation, it’s hard to break out of that and marketing tactics like these don’t help.

Fox.3469:

Jemmi.6058:

Cloud.7613:

Of course they are, is it right? No. But a lot of gaming companies will do it.

Sure it is right. That is how marketing works. You sell it in a way to breed desire. This works on both poor people and non-poor people alike.

IMO the issue is not with ANet. It is with one of or a combination of any of the following:

1. your upbringing. If you have no self control over this sort of thing, your parents did not do a great job of teaching you to budget.

2. Credit cards. We live in a society full of debt and everyone is getting more and more in debt. Why pay now when you can pay later? Oh but I can buy it now and earn the money later! etc

3. Lack of education – which may relate to poorer education to poorer people – resulting in the inability to critically think about the outcome.

These are very important factors i agree, but both 1 and 3 are a cycle from generation to generation, it’s hard to break out of that and marketing tactics like these don’t help.

I agree and disagree about the “marketing tactics like this don’t help”. Short term, yes they don’t help, because they prey on the weak so-to speak. However, long term it does the opposite. The more corporations using marketing tactics like this, the more money they get, the larger they get and the more people they employ. The economy grows, GDP grows and GDP/capita grows. Therefore, long term results are fewer unemployed people and a higher standard of living.

Obviously this, as it relates to Arena Net and gaming, is less significant than other sectors. However, I think that is true to the amount of money they are ‘swindling’ out of the weak too.

Fox.3469:

Facepunch.5710:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read your post and the message I’m getting from you is that individuals who are low income earners have no self control and ANet is exploiting their lack of control to make money. And you are against it. Is that right?

I’m saying that these tactics are targetting vunerable people, getting out of poverty is hard enough without having these tactics around in the general market, and a game that applies these strategies is imo just wrong.

I dont think you have the right to tell anyone else how to live their lives, or declare that they shouldnt spend their money the way they want. What you are proposing is that poor peoples purchases should be limited to what you think is worth their money. You dont get to decide how other people should live their own lives when it isnt effecting you.

Also the overall strategy allows people with less money to get more game for less money if they so choose, and the people who want to spend money to make the company profitable enough to continue.

Long story short, every body buying gems has a credit card, and is an adult, and can make their own decsions, and should. You may call it exploitation to sell and market things to people who want them, but really thats just what both parties actually want.

Also, the selling of legendaries is irrelevant to the poor exploitation, i doubt poor people are spending 1000 dollars on a legendary

Fox.3469:

To be clear, i’m a GW2 and A-Net supporter, the reason i made this post is because I believe that this is a problem.
I also realise that these marketing techniques affect everyone. Altough not everyone is as vulnerable.

Most of all i ask myself why this is needed?
Why can the molten mining pick and others be in for a few weeks only, why do these weapons require real money RNG.
What’s wrong with a store where things come in, go on sale after a while and then find a lower price to stagnate then the new stuff?

because controlling supply and demand is one of the main means of deciding value. If i sell an original its worth more than a copy, even if they look virtually the same, because the original is rarer.

If i say im going to be drawing only 100 guild wars pieces for the next 2 years, it makes my guild wars drawings more valuable than if i say i will draw as many guild wars pieces as people want for the rest of my life.

This is economics, and marketing, and appeals to all people who are interested in your product. I also feel that this thread is stereotyping poor people into being people have no self control and ability to rule themselves, which honestly from what i have seen is not accurate.
I think most people surviving on less than 16 thousand a year tend to have a fair amount of self control and ability to balance their income, or else they dont eat, and cant use electricity.

as far as the whole poor people gambling hoping for a big win dunno if that applies since the payoff is not money

People bringing up things like “you don’t have to buy it if you don’t want”, that’s just ignorant. Psychology plays a large effect in gaming and business models. The problem stems from those who don’t have a lot of money see GW2 and buy it because it’s a one time purchase. These people also want a cheap way to boost they’re self esteem in a way by making their in game character impressive compared to their real life persona. So now that this demographic has been wrapped into the game they make it so a lot of the more impressive skins are in the cash shop in RNG chests, so it’s similar to how poor people tend to be addicted to lottery tickets. It’s not that this is a wrong thing to do or if it was even planned this way, but there are most likely correlations and it’s a dirty move by Anet if I do say so myself.

“These people also want a cheap way to boost they’re self esteem in a way by making their in game character impressive compared to their real life persona.”

Boosting self esteem by looking pretty in a game..

Digital esteem is a false sense of self esteem. You gain nothing in real life by thinking you now look better in a video game. While I agree peoples self esteem can be affected by video games, if they are truly caring so much about self worth that they need to spend money on unrealistic things, their problems are far deeper than simply what can be discussed here..

All this “dirty move” “shady company” garbage… Seriously, its comparable to saying video games make people go out and kill others. It is called self control, it is common sense, it is a sense of responsibility. It is not Arenanets fault if people are wasting money on the game when they should be spending it on something to further or better their real lives. But again, they have the right to do as they please with their money. They don’t need big brother telling them what to buy and what not to buy.

In Soviet Russia gems buy you.

If people are spending all their money on gems for RNG or pretty items, that is their business. Why people feel compelled to control others monetary access and spending is beyond me.. Sounds self righteous and controlling to me. Maybe people buying RNG chests aren’t the ones with psychological issues.

Geotherma.2395:

All this “dirty move” “shady company” garbage… Seriously, its comparable to saying video games make people go out and kill others. It is called self control, it is common sense, it is a sense of responsibility. It is not Arenanets fault if people are wasting money on the game when they should be spending it on something to further or better their real lives. But again, they have the right to do as they please with their money. They don’t need big brother telling them what to buy and what not to buy.

In Soviet Russia gems buy you.

Welcome to America. Managed to get a cold war era reference in there and all, good work.

ScottBroChill.3254:

People bringing up things like “you don’t have to buy it if you don’t want”, that’s just ignorant. Psychology plays a large effect in gaming and business models. The problem stems from those who don’t have a lot of money see GW2 and buy it because it’s a one time purchase. These people also want a cheap way to boost they’re self esteem in a way by making their in game character impressive compared to their real life persona. So now that this demographic has been wrapped into the game they make it so a lot of the more impressive skins are in the cash shop in RNG chests, so it’s similar to how poor people tend to be addicted to lottery tickets. It’s not that this is a wrong thing to do or if it was even planned this way, but there are most likely correlations and it’s a dirty move by Anet if I do say so myself.

Its a dirty move to create things of value and then try to sell them? Maybe i just believe in people too much. I dont believe that people are incapable of making decsions for themselves.
It might be different if they were selling these items as magical water that makes your problems go away.
But take limited edition sneakers for example.
The company is showing you the shoe
limiting the printing time, and telling you hey if you want the shoe you have to do X
no one is lying to you, no one is tricking you. the deal is clear.

And people stop putting out this poor people are stupid or defenseless logic. Lets be honest most of the people effected by this are not poor. They have money to burn, and they are burning it. Poor people by and large arent going to spend 100 dollars on something whose max payoff is nothing. Even the prestige on these items is pretty low.

If you dont like rng and think it sucks, and wish the items were obtained more directly thats fine, say that, that can be measured or decided, but this whole exploiting poor people thing is complete bull.

ScottBroChill.3254:

People bringing up things like “you don’t have to buy it if you don’t want”, that’s just ignorant. Psychology plays a large effect in gaming and business models. The problem stems from those who don’t have a lot of money see GW2 and buy it because it’s a one time purchase. These people also want a cheap way to boost they’re self esteem in a way by making their in game character impressive compared to their real life persona. So now that this demographic has been wrapped into the game they make it so a lot of the more impressive skins are in the cash shop in RNG chests, so it’s similar to how poor people tend to be addicted to lottery tickets. It’s not that this is a wrong thing to do or if it was even planned this way, but there are most likely correlations and it’s a dirty move by Anet if I do say so myself.

That doesn’t change the fact that indeed they don’t have to buy, self-esteem issues or not. In my opinion if someone needs video games to regulate their sense of self and their self-esteem then maybe they should consider seeing a therapist and participating in real world social activities. Last time I checked when I went to repair my armor I didn’t get a pop-up that said, “We’re sorry, you must now deposit $15.00 to repair your armor. Please select from paying via credit or Paypal”

I often go to amusement parks that have a one time gate fee (usually close to 60 dollars btw) that allow me to enjoy all the rides in the park at no extra cost. Now if I want a souvenir (read mini pet) as a “cheap way to boost my self esteem” as you claim, then I can chose to buy it or not. If I don’t I can still enjoy all the rides all day until the park closes.

People of low income want cheap ways to boost their self-esteem? Really? You know that as fact? That is on the border of a derogatory statement.

I worked for years with people living with a major mental illness and 9/10 those individuals were well below the poverty level. Most of my clients wanted real life accomplishment to boost their self-esteem. Given the fact that having a major mental illness often impairs judgment significantly you must find it hard to believe these unfortunate individuals with low income want something real out of life to improve their sense of self.

MattMesa.8401:

Geotherma.2395:

All this “dirty move” “shady company” garbage… Seriously, its comparable to saying video games make people go out and kill others. It is called self control, it is common sense, it is a sense of responsibility. It is not Arenanets fault if people are wasting money on the game when they should be spending it on something to further or better their real lives. But again, they have the right to do as they please with their money. They don’t need big brother telling them what to buy and what not to buy.

In Soviet Russia gems buy you.

Welcome to America. Managed to get a cold war era reference in there and all, good work.

;)

A fool and his money are easily parted. For the vast majority of poor people they are poor because they make stupid decisions and spend money on things they can’t afford.

If you are poor why do you own a computer capable of playing GW2? If you are really poor you should sell that and buy a cheap walmart computer to apply for jobs. If you are poor why did you spend $50 on entertainment for yourself? If you have that much free time then you should use it to either get an education or look for a job. I love watching the homeless people who are capable enough to beg for money right next to the help wanted signs at fast food restaurants.

If you really don’t have the self control to prevent yourself from spending money you don’t have then cut up your credit cards.

People are poor because they make poor decisions(excluding those with obvious disabilities, life changing injuries and those who’s lives were destroyed by medical or natural disasters) , not because of some evil gaming corporation is selling convenience items.