GW2 feels like a F2P game (my opinion)

GW2 feels like a F2P game (my opinion)

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Posted by: Smithy.6051

Smithy.6051

@SpyderArachnid.5619

I don’t usually reply on forums but feel compelled to after reading your original post. I must say I’ve never agreed more completely to something I have read regarding this game. I guess the Wintersday holiday is the icing on the cake which has highlighted my disillusionment with many aspects of a game I was greatly looking forward to (I absolutely loved GW1 and had a great time playing it with friends). It certainly does feel like a F2P game in which many areas seem to direct you towards gems and the trading post to get the most out of it. “Get Your Holiday Cheer Now in the Gem Store” it proudly proclaims on the GW2 website… I think that speaks for itself.

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Posted by: taomang.2183

taomang.2183

The saddest part of this post is that indoctrinated people will disagree with this. This is pretty much spot on what most complaints are about.
I don’t have anything to contribute to your post OP, because you stated everything that i am hoping to change for the better in the next year. Especially the rewards and making gold in this game. Right now it’s much cheaper to play a subscription MMO and pay 10-15 bucks a month to get everything obtainable in a reasonable amount of time than spend $100+ to gamble and hope i get even one item.

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Posted by: marnick.4305

marnick.4305

Free mind player:
Logins into game, says hello to friends and enjoys some activities with them; plays a few of the 40 dungeon quests, does a few events he likes, kills some bosses/champs with friends, some WvW, a couple sPvP games.
During this whole he accumulate some wealth that he stockpiles away in case one day he wants to craft a legendary or something – but it’s not the reason he plays, it’s just a long term goal in the back of his mind.
He logs off satisfied and happy.

Lol, I’ve never had someone I’ve never met, never spoken to, describe my playstyle so well. It is correct to the letter. Ye one day I’ll get the legendary, no rush.

If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto

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Posted by: marnick.4305

marnick.4305

The saddest part of this post is that indoctrinated people will disagree with this. This is pretty much spot on what most complaints are about.
I don’t have anything to contribute to your post OP, because you stated everything that i am hoping to change for the better in the next year. Especially the rewards and making gold in this game. Right now it’s much cheaper to play a subscription MMO and pay 10-15 bucks a month to get everything obtainable in a reasonable amount of time than spend $100+ to gamble and hope i get even one item.

You’re wrong because in most sub-based games, getting everything obtainable takes A/ several months, which is not a reasonable amount of time and B/ when you finally have it, it is no longer the best obtainable item. Two weeks in GW2 gives you a max level toon with best stat gear. Anything after that is entirely optional. I don’t understand why you think several months is shorter than 2 weeks but in my books it isn’t.

If I can’t play Guild Wars 2 at work, I won’t work in Guild Wars 2 either.
Delayed content is eventually good. Rushed content is eternally bad. ~ Shigeru Miyamoto

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Posted by: XENus.6931

XENus.6931

Alright, you’re just talking about PVE. In my opinion WVW + PVP is already worth 60 bucks. Judging by what you’re talking about is that u want to get stuff quick and easy. Now, MMORPG is a game that u have to work for stuff. Not freakin do some kitten once/twice and you get something amazing, no.

In my opinion this game is worth like twice its price! You’re just being close-minded. What i mean is that you focus on the grindy stuff and the stuff that u hate. Which leads to you forgetting about other stuff that GW2 have done well such as’ Exploration’ It is well polished, amazing. However the hearts are grindy, so that is one of the flaws about exploration. But if you think about all the positive things about GW2 , you will never say that this is a f2p game.

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Posted by: Saxon.1908

Saxon.1908

You seem to be using this Term ‘Grind’ in it’s broadest definition, while only discussing one sort of grind: a Gear-Grind. If you are going to define the game ONLY in terms of how loot drops then yes, it’s highly possible you won’t the the experience you are after.

Are you saying a Dungeon Run should be a GUARANTEED Rare Drop? Because that seems to me to be going to far, and would certainly devalue Rares. When a Rare Drops I get mildly excited, “Hey look I got a rare let me take a look at it”- I For me the ‘Rarity’ of rares is what makes them fun.

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Posted by: Graill.8596

Graill.8596

First, dont put “Opinion” in your title, there is no reason to be afraid of the billy club weilding person trolling the forums out of spite, everyone knows the forums are opinion. The only facts put out are those by Anet employees, some anyways.

Back on topic, the Customer can play the game the way they want. The Customer can login and spend as much time as they are able or the least amount of time. There is no “Hardcore”, there is no “Casual”, there are Gamers, customers that play MMO’s.

Now that thats out of the way we move to the “feeling” of the game. This game feels neither F2P nor P2P, it feels grindy and farmy, because of the game mechanics put in place by the developers. The customer must play within the range of these game mechanics and as customers we have the right to complain about a faulty product and the way it is operating. Would this game “feel” different if it were charging monthly? No, because the same mechanics would be in place.

Until the devs listen to their customers, that is, we gamers, things will not change and neither will the “Feel”.

There is no worse feeling than that during an argument, you realize you are wrong.

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Posted by: TWMagimay.9057

TWMagimay.9057

This is where you’re completely wrong. ‘Fun’ is subjective, and for a lot of people, working towards an imaginary goal is what they consider to be fun. Consider gaming as a hobby, such as building a model ship. You put time, money, and skill into building a replica of the S.S. Booty and all you have to show for it in the end is a pretty trophy. Games are similar to such hobbies in that, at the end of the day, you’ll have a stronger, more personalised avatar with which to show off your dilligence to people who will appreciate your dilligence. People put model ships in bottles and pop them on shelves where they will be entirely useless, garner no further income, and take up space. Yet the person had fun building that model ship, and enjoys showing it off to friends who also enjoy and build model ships of their own.

Saying ’it’s just a game and you shouldn’t have to work for anything because it’s just a game is just a game is just a game" doesn’t work anymore in this day and age. Gaming is a hobby and a passtime as much as anything else, and like any hobby, there are competitive, passionate types who enjoy putting time and effort into things they love and enjoy engrossing themselves in everything the game has to offer, right down to the min-max.

I’m starting to think it’s a language thing. In my mother tongue(a Slavic language), I’d never say I’m working towards smth in a game. I’d use a phrase closer to “to keep oneself busy/entertained”. And from what I’ve encountered in Austria, they don’t say “work” either. Have a friend who builds model air planes as a hobby(native German speaker), he also never said he has to “work” on it, used words like “build”, “create”, “finish”, but never just “work”. Also asked my Dutch fiancé about it…he also said he wouldn’t use “work” when talking about anything he does in a game. I guess in most languages “work” has a negative connotation(smth you feel forced to do and don’t enjoy) and thus people feel that talking about “work” in a game is wrong.

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Posted by: Tumbero.3945

Tumbero.3945

I know what is a mmo and what is a rpg and gw2 lacks a lot about thats.

As always uo ftw.

SBI Firstborn.
(LX) Legion

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Posted by: Rustypipes.6238

Rustypipes.6238

Not being forced to grind isn’t the same as “we don’t make grindy games”. Sure the grinds are entirely optional, but if my goal is to get 100 lodestones…. that takes a long time regardless of playing “the way Anet wants me to” or not; getting to that goal over a long duration vs. a faster duller method doesn’t change the fact that it’s a grindy requirement.

If a drop rate for said lodestone is say 1% and there was no DR, it would take nearly 10,000 kills to get that. Even if I spread that out over time, what the kitten kind of endgame pursuit demands this many kills for one of several components other than a grindy game? Oh just use the TP?… So basically I’m “buying” my way out of grinding? Which means that there is, in fact, grinding?… but this game isn’t grindy? Oh this grind isn’t as bad as other games? Ok, so we’re acknowledging that this game does, in fact, have a grind? Which, again… “we dont’ make grindy games”?

A non-grindy game has goals like to get item X requires me to beat encounters A, B, and C…. it may take time to learn and execute, but at least it’s an effort devoted to mastering content rather than an effort devoted into simply spending an exorbitant amount of time (whether that time goes towards directly getting that goal or indirectly getting it). Not saying non-grindy games don’t have some repeat, but there’s a difference between having to do something a dozen times and having to do something a hundred+ times.

I think you are confusing grinding and farming. When you are killing things for drops, that’s farming, when you are killing things to level, that’s grinding.

So, with that tid bit of knowledge dropped in your mind, GW2 is not, for the most part, a grindy game.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

I’m starting to think it’s a language thing. In my mother tongue(a Slavic language), I’d never say I’m working towards smth in a game. I’d use a phrase closer to “to keep oneself busy/entertained”. And from what I’ve encountered in Austria, they don’t say “work” either. Have a friend who builds model air planes as a hobby(native German speaker), he also never said he has to “work” on it, used words like “build”, “create”, “finish”, but never just “work”. Also asked my Dutch fiancé about it…he also said he wouldn’t use “work” when talking about anything he does in a game. I guess in most languages “work” has a negative connotation(smth you feel forced to do and don’t enjoy) and thus people feel that talking about “work” in a game is wrong.

Indeed, an American idiom for “work” is “the daily grind.”

Grind was originally used with regard to video games to describe things the player would prefer not to do but feels compelled to do to progress in the game. In Rappelz, for instance, you need to grind monster kills to level, so you can grind more monster kills to level again.

The term “grind” now seems to be further evolving to mean, “Doing anything for any length of time if I don’t get what I want in a time frame I think is reasonable.” Even if, in the case of GW2, the stuff people want is optional. Heck, the whole game is optional.

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Posted by: Farry.8259

Farry.8259

Most Important thing! After reading a couple of sentences my eyes start burning from the bright white light of the background. Please ArenaNet, make the background of the forum dark gray so we can read more conviniently!

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Posted by: eXs.6210

eXs.6210

I spent 3+ months leveling my first character to 80… I played a ranged rifle warrior (aka easy mode)… I barely died, I barely even used waypoints, I didn’t buy mats to level up my crafting, I didn’t buy expensive items at lower levels (played predominately with green cheap gear)… then I got to 80… all I could afford was one exotic berserker rifle… I didn’t even have enough to buy myself a set of green lvl80 gear… I had to sell some stuff off in order to afford even green gear… 2 weeks since hitting 80 and I have something like 2.5 gold… I will be able to afford an exotic bow in only 2 more weeks… if I don’t die or use waypoints… this is awful…

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Posted by: TommyProvolone.3715

TommyProvolone.3715

I’m fine with grinding so long as it is not required in order to access the endgame.

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Posted by: Bruno Sardine.2907

Bruno Sardine.2907

@ Rustypipes

Nitpick the most unimportant parts of what I said, which how people define the terms and not what the actual message is stating…. but in a game that touts itself as breaking from the bonds of traditional MMOs and being all about skill, it’s interesting the the most sought after skins prescribe more the to traditional methods of grinding/farming whatever you wanna call it rather than getting them through skill.

Let me ask you something…. gift of stealth, would you prefer to get that through a challenging skill-based type minigame involving stealth or gather: 500 ori ore (to turn into ingots), 100 onyx lodestones, 250 orrian truffles, and 500 CoE tokens (for the gift of knowledge)?

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Posted by: arcaid.6983

arcaid.6983

I spent 3+ months leveling my first character to 80… I played a ranged rifle warrior (aka easy mode)… I barely died, I barely even used waypoints, I didn’t buy mats to level up my crafting, I didn’t buy expensive items at lower levels (played predominately with green cheap gear)… then I got to 80… all I could afford was one exotic berserker rifle… I didn’t even have enough to buy myself a set of green lvl80 gear… I had to sell some stuff off in order to afford even green gear… 2 weeks since hitting 80 and I have something like 2.5 gold… I will be able to afford an exotic bow in only 2 more weeks… if I don’t die or use waypoints… this is awful…

I don’t know what your doing wrong but you are doing something very wrong if this is true. I just got the game 2 weeks ago, I waypoint all over the place hop skip and jump across maps, every 10 levels I buy a new set of gear(not top knotch but really good gear), I am about to hit level 60 and I have 2.5 gold, for the first 30 levels I didn’t even mess with selling stuff on the TP I just vendored everything. Now I use the Instant sell function on the trade post so I definetly am not maximizing profit by any means. The more I think about it the more I think you made a lot of that up. I was up to 4 gold at one point, and all I do is play the game nothing special. I complete hearts do dynamic events and 100% complete every zone I go to. I just don’t see how the above scenario is possible.

/boggle

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Posted by: eXs.6210

eXs.6210

I spent 3+ months leveling my first character to 80… I played a ranged rifle warrior (aka easy mode)… I barely died, I barely even used waypoints, I didn’t buy mats to level up my crafting, I didn’t buy expensive items at lower levels (played predominately with green cheap gear)… then I got to 80… all I could afford was one exotic berserker rifle… I didn’t even have enough to buy myself a set of green lvl80 gear… I had to sell some stuff off in order to afford even green gear… 2 weeks since hitting 80 and I have something like 2.5 gold… I will be able to afford an exotic bow in only 2 more weeks… if I don’t die or use waypoints… this is awful…

I don’t know what your doing wrong but you are doing something very wrong if this is true. I just got the game 2 weeks ago, I waypoint all over the place hop skip and jump across maps, every 10 levels I buy a new set of gear(not top knotch but really good gear), I am about to hit level 60 and I have 2.5 gold, for the first 30 levels I didn’t even mess with selling stuff on the TP I just vendored everything. Now I use the Instant sell function on the trade post so I definetly am not maximizing profit by any means. The more I think about it the more I think you made a lot of that up. I was up to 4 gold at one point, and all I do is play the game nothing special. I complete hearts do dynamic events and 100% complete every zone I go to. I just don’t see how the above scenario is possible.

/boggle

That is very much how much I had at that level… thing about it is, and you’ll see this… the rewards don’t scale much at all… higher level hearts give like 2.5 silver… not much more than mid level hearts… blue items of higher level are sold for the same 30-50 copper… green items went up to 1.1 silver… instead of lower greens being 70-80 copper… big jump… not… also I don’t know if you have bought your level 60 training book… get ready to spend 2 gold on that when you hit 60… that will leave you with an impressive 50 silver!!!

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Posted by: Dimm.8702

Dimm.8702

Lottery’s dont make a game f2p or p2p, If you gotto pay it is p2p.

What you saiyng makes me think, i was playing fifa os my ps3, but you know what? I pass the ball with the X button and shot with square one. Ya, it felt just like pes.

WHAAAAAT????

I got your point, there so many things they could do to improve. There are so many ways to get the game better with the money we gave them.
The reward system sucks, yes, and you should tell them what you want, but use the actual real words. I WANT A REWARD SYSTEM LIKE WOW. I want to know that my time wasnt wasted if my luck is bad. Its not bad for them when we call a feature in another game better than on theirs, its all about market competition. And about grinding, well, at least for lvls, i dont even fell like lvling up, i just do, its fun, its fast paced, i dont count the events i need to be at next lvl, it just happens, and i dont fell it is a massive waste of time. Well, lvling at least, i didnt reached the time that i need to look for legendary exotic items.
I dont disagree with you, i think its your opnion. But the way the game is handled, the way you play it dont make it more or less p2p. People say the f2p cosmetic cash shop is the way to go, ANET says it is p2p with “cosmetic” cash shop is the way to go. You paid, it is p2p, it doesnt fell f2p because i paid to play, i know, only ppl that paid gonna have a chance to play with me, with us, its not anyone, its not everyone. Can you imagine this game f2p? The thousands of hackers, gold sellers, lame kids, “plz gimme gold” kids. That are some few things that make me fell playing a f2p game, and at gw2 i dont. The system fell a lil luck based, not so fast paced to grind items and gold. But it still p2p, maybe a p2p with a bad management team(im not saying it is) but still p2p.

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Posted by: Dimm.8702

Dimm.8702

I spent 3+ months leveling my first character to 80… I played a ranged rifle warrior (aka easy mode)… I barely died, I barely even used waypoints, I didn’t buy mats to level up my crafting, I didn’t buy expensive items at lower levels (played predominately with green cheap gear)… then I got to 80… all I could afford was one exotic berserker rifle… I didn’t even have enough to buy myself a set of green lvl80 gear… I had to sell some stuff off in order to afford even green gear… 2 weeks since hitting 80 and I have something like 2.5 gold… I will be able to afford an exotic bow in only 2 more weeks… if I don’t die or use waypoints… this is awful…

I don’t know what your doing wrong but you are doing something very wrong if this is true. I just got the game 2 weeks ago, I waypoint all over the place hop skip and jump across maps, every 10 levels I buy a new set of gear(not top knotch but really good gear), I am about to hit level 60 and I have 2.5 gold, for the first 30 levels I didn’t even mess with selling stuff on the TP I just vendored everything. Now I use the Instant sell function on the trade post so I definetly am not maximizing profit by any means. The more I think about it the more I think you made a lot of that up. I was up to 4 gold at one point, and all I do is play the game nothing special. I complete hearts do dynamic events and 100% complete every zone I go to. I just don’t see how the above scenario is possible.

/boggle

That is very much how much I had at that level… thing about it is, and you’ll see this… the rewards don’t scale much at all… higher level hearts give like 2.5 silver… not much more than mid level hearts… blue items of higher level are sold for the same 30-50 copper… green items went up to 1.1 silver… instead of lower greens being 70-80 copper… big jump… not… also I don’t know if you have bought your level 60 training book… get ready to spend 2 gold on that when you hit 60… that will leave you with an impressive 50 silver!!!

And i dont know too, im just lvling and pvping, i dont have much time in game, my higher char is lvl 33, and i got 10g till now(10g after i invested a few silvers on my lvl 30 items, i had to buy all them) ,and this by selling the better priced items on trading post and the ones that have higher selling price for npc i sell to npc. And i dont walk around, i walk around all i need, and then i just waypoint all around.
PS. i tested a few professions, i got two at lvl 20 and my main at lvl 33, so it may helped a little, but, the first one, an enginner, i was completly lost, if i knew the things i know today, i probably could gather 15g in this time.

(edited by Dimm.8702)

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Posted by: cainejw.7142

cainejw.7142

AAA means high quality.

F2P means you don’t pay a monthly subscription.

You can be AAA and be F2P. Many games are. AAA does not require monthly sub.

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Posted by: Rugworm.1857

Rugworm.1857

I want grind. That’s what makes a game. No grind.. no point playing.

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Posted by: arcaid.6983

arcaid.6983

That is very much how much I had at that level… thing about it is, and you’ll see this… the rewards don’t scale much at all… higher level hearts give like 2.5 silver… not much more than mid level hearts… blue items of higher level are sold for the same 30-50 copper… green items went up to 1.1 silver… instead of lower greens being 70-80 copper… big jump… not… also I don’t know if you have bought your level 60 training book… get ready to spend 2 gold on that when you hit 60… that will leave you with an impressive 50 silver!!!

Ok but now you are changing the argument. If by your first statement, you spent the minimal amount you could on leveling then you should have had way more gold then you said you did when you hit 80. I know that I will be down to 50 silver and I am fine with that. I have been frivilous with my cash while leveling, but I have also enjoyed it. If I went with bargain gear and walked everywhere, as you stated you did, I would probably have at least 5 gold and probably a lot more. So, my conclusion, is you either spent more money than originally stated while leveling or you are making a false argument and probably both.

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Posted by: FilthyRat.4652

FilthyRat.4652

It’s not just the grind but the way the nerf everything is really starting to bug me (when there are a ton of problems that really need fixing like fractals). I would rather pay a subscription and have some cool items to show for it than have to spend like 50g on TP to get a stupid bell. And did they really have to nerf dye drop? There is like a million different color dyes out there.

Just think it’s going to do more harm than good in the end.

Barodd-80 W/Kremklin-80 Me/Dokast-80 Nec
Nine Divines (ND)
Sorrow’s Furnace

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Posted by: LemurTron.9261

LemurTron.9261

I think the fact that it costs 250 ectos to put +5 agony resistance on a backpiece should tell you something

Those who claim they make 5-10g in a couple hours consistently are either a) way overestimating, b) hiding the fact that they have used the cash shop (ie gem exchange).. or both

lack of monetary reward for stuff like open world champions, dragons, or even Orr DEs all point to f2p.. and the trend continues with each “update”

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Posted by: Ishiga.6053

Ishiga.6053

First, dont put “Opinion” in your title, there is no reason to be afraid of the billy club weilding person trolling the forums out of spite, everyone knows the forums are opinion. The only facts put out are those by Anet employees, some anyways.

News flash. That’s the forum moderators doing that. I clicked into this thread and that “opinion” part was not there before.

They intentionally insert that into forum titles.

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Posted by: Genesis.5169

Genesis.5169

Also this is my opinion the mods here are freaking insane.

To the people who said DR is there for a reason.
No. Stop. Your making no sense, it will never make any sense and it never did make any sense.

Secondly, i do agree DR should be removed and certain events should be buffed. Not to say im poor but t6 mats and lode stones add up.

It’s okay to have heavy grindy items you have to forge but give some one another option to get it. I’m an hardcore dungeon runner and Lets say infinite light I am going to have to shell out 400g. Dungeons don’t even normally yeild 1g let alone 400. (FotM is an exclusion from that).

So i am forced to grind World mobs t6 mats etc to make money to make an item. But then you guys turn around and punish me for grinding. So what am i supposed to do not play?

Really is anet telling me if i wanna grind logout or we punish you?

Also inb4 go do wvwvw and spvp. I love pvp I HATE zergfests none of that comes down to skill it comes down to which team has more aoe and a higher frame rate.

These forums are a joke its not for opinions or debate its just a safe place for people to cry at.

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Posted by: Relentliss.2170

Relentliss.2170

I agree. Gw2 does indeed feel like a tawdry f2play game. I’d rather it was better made and paid a sub.

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional

Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)

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Posted by: Zeldain.5710

Zeldain.5710

It is indeed a f2p game.

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Posted by: Zeldain.5710

Zeldain.5710

I agree. Gw2 does indeed feel like a tawdry f2play game. I’d rather it was better made and paid a sub.

Word.

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Posted by: juanitobgoode.1079

juanitobgoode.1079

For me GW2 is missing quality…the game just feels cheap. I’m talking abou the actual physics of the game. The characters look cheap, the animations are meh and clunky, jumping is awkward ( also we can’t cast while jumping), animations restrict how fast our abilities go off. And this is stuff that can’t really be patched, it’s pretty much set in stone. Right now some pvp and playing with my little brother is what motivates me to logg in once in a while. The bottom line is that the game gets boring very quicky imo. Part of this has to do with GW2 trying to be a hybrid between a classical mmo, action-style, tab targetting, moba game. I have to give them props for being the first game to attempt this (also why I supported them), but the quality just isn’t there. Hopefully future game will learn to do this better. I used to logg in to WoW more than this game and I didn’t think WoW was that great, however it had decent quality/movement/controls.

(edited by juanitobgoode.1079)

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Posted by: Relentliss.2170

Relentliss.2170

You only have to look at all the missing guild features and ui features, common in every mmo, to see how they have cut corners.

This is not even looking closer at maps, mobs, rewards, classes, etc. which are all pretty thin.

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional

Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)

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Posted by: FloXun.1456

FloXun.1456

You know what you should do?
Play for fun.

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Posted by: Condas.7056

Condas.7056

I finished my legendary recently and had little issue with the game until then. Was it the most fun I have had playing an MMO? Well, no it wasn’t. It wasn’t the worst either. First thing I did was run around playing with random people and having fun. I did an instance or two when I felt like it, you know… Played like “Anet” intended, nothing serious or hardcore. It wasn’t until this point that I started to realize, the game isn’t very fun. There is little to do here that keeps me here, I am starting to feel less and less interested in playing. I am thinking about going for Bifrost now, but after thinking about it I came to the conclusion that I didn’t enjoy getting Sunrise too much either. Keep in mind when I went for Sunrise I got a LOT of lucky drops (several precursors) and wasn’t gunning hardcore for it till the last week. I think a good MMO needs something to keep you occupied that does not have to do with getting things in return, something to make your presence worthwhile though. This is in my opinion the only way to find true fun in a game.

I did some WvW, it’s okay… I don’t feel like I am making an impact and I don’t feel like anyone is benefiting from me being there. No satisfaction. SPvP is okay again, but there are other games, mainly other genres that do that type of game play better. I know RPGs give a unique combat experience, but I also feel it sacrifices the quality of competition in my opinion. Either way instanced PvP is not my idea of a good MMO feature.

To this date my best MMO experience was in Pre-BC WoW (BC was the first expansion). Many may not like this, but I will say; this is for reasons you would not expect. I did not participate in instances. I did not do battlegrounds (instanced PvP). I did not do quests. Did I like leveling? No, 1-60 was like sticking a dagger in your face over and over. It was horrible. Once I hit 60 I found a purpose, something that made me feel needed. I spent all my time hunting down people who had an obsession with killing players who couldn’t defend themselves. People would call them “gankers”. Many people would not be able to progress their characters if players like me were not around to stop people from camping them till they log off. I got a lot of fun from this. This way of playing the game died fast with BC and lingered for a while before dying out. Instanced PvP and rewards from it drew everyone out of the world into instances and I was no longer needed. It wasn’t fun anymore. I quit.

I feel like, now that my personal goals are completed, I am not needed. I never was needed here. I don’t enjoy anything enough to be logging in consistently any more. Two days ago I played another game for the first time since GW2 came out. I see it becoming more common quickly.

To be honest, once you hit 80 its all about getting exotics. Both are easy. Once you get your cosmetic gear, the next goal, what then? Alts? More cosmetic gear? There is nothing here you can really do besides work (either hardcore or casually, grindy or passively) that you can do for pure fun that will actually last you.

That said, I feel I got my moneys worth. However, a MMO is meant to keep you. Something I think GW2 fails to do. If you don’t play much I can see it keeping you around for a while, but I think they could have done a LOT more with the game than they did. It feels like a big show up front, with a hollow emptiness underneath.

(edited by Condas.7056)

GW2 feels like a F2P game (my opinion)

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Posted by: Nay of the Ether.8913

Nay of the Ether.8913

Ok your post caught my eye OP and it’s something I have been thinking about a lot lately so I figured I’d play devil’s advocate and try to calmly explain my thoughts on it in a reasonable manner and not fly off the handle like some people here.

First off, I don’t mind some grind for the gear. Most former MMO’s I have played except GW1 took me at least 10x as long to get the same amount of gear as I did here in GW2. I think lots of us have forgotten just how bad those games were. However, the things that gave me such faith in GW2 were the outstanding systems implemented in GW1 which cannot be found in this game. That is very disappointing. GW1 was a phenomenal game, and honestly I regularly put money into it. I would buy extra accounts, max all my storages on them, buy all campaigns (can equate to buying expansions if you really want to see it that way), all the cosmetic stuff, I pretty much maxed out my item shop purchases each month. In GW2 I bought gems 2 times, and lost the desire to ever do so again. The returns for the money spent were not satisfactory to me compared to what I got in GW1.

That leads into the RNG aspect of the game. I think RNG is a very terrible idea as well as magic find. I think it ruins the community as a whole because it breeds greedy farmers and selfish players and goes against everything GW2 stands for. “Legitimate” farmers who don’t use all MF gear, exploits, TP manipulations, ect, can never hope to keep up with the out of control market manipulators. Again, don’t misread my words, I don’t mind grind, and I honestly prefer to work for my rewards, but the way the current loot system is set up, it’s not true grind anyway, I know people who spent maybe at most a week farming the same drops I did and walked out with full bags and I barely had half of what they did, and that was mainly attributed to nothing more than RNG favoring them more than me. That’s all well and good but the GW games I know and love reward hard work and skill, not luck and manipulating markets at other’s expense. Legendaries should be hard to get, but for people with good luck in the game, they aren’t. Johnny Bustass over here might work twice as hard as Luke Lazyass but Luke Lazyass just had good luck so now he’s waving around a new legendary while Johnny is still grinding away. To me that’s not Legendary quality, that’s just another random item.

Now, time to play devil’s advocate and work the other side of how I feel about this. The game has too much to offer to be stuck on high end drops like this. I have so much fun doing other things while I wait for either my magic lottery number to come up or finally grind my way to my goal. Doing Orr clears with guildies or random people is a blast, so are the dragon events because I do it for the experience not the loot. The bad side of this, is the majority of the community doesn’t play this way so more often than not, I’m left in empty zones with events I can’t possibly solo, so the only other option is to stand around like the other sheep “LFG Fractals” or staring at a TP screen or go zerg in WvWvW. The only reprieve I find to all of this is some good ol fashioned pvp, but even then that gets tiresome when I run into the same class problems that frustrate so many people time and again.

Someone above mentioned it was starting to feel like Runes of Magic and honestly I was thinking the same thing the other day in regards to the gem store mostly. I want my old GW ethics back, plain and simple. I know they need to make the money to keep the publishers happy, but I just don’t think this current system is the way to do it. My example of my spending in GW1 vs this game is example of that.

http://almunns.wix.com/elitedeathsociety
~Surrender fiend and you will get an easy death
~I could promise you the same…but it would be a lie…

GW2 feels like a F2P game (my opinion)

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Posted by: taomang.2183

taomang.2183

The saddest part of this post is that indoctrinated people will disagree with this. This is pretty much spot on what most complaints are about.
I don’t have anything to contribute to your post OP, because you stated everything that i am hoping to change for the better in the next year. Especially the rewards and making gold in this game. Right now it’s much cheaper to play a subscription MMO and pay 10-15 bucks a month to get everything obtainable in a reasonable amount of time than spend $100+ to gamble and hope i get even one item.

You’re wrong because in most sub-based games, getting everything obtainable takes A/ several months, which is not a reasonable amount of time and B/ when you finally have it, it is no longer the best obtainable item. Two weeks in GW2 gives you a max level toon with best stat gear. Anything after that is entirely optional. I don’t understand why you think several months is shorter than 2 weeks but in my books it isn’t.

You’re the one who is looking at it wrong. In other MMOs stats are important, in GW2 you mostly make your character pretty after you are done “progressing” your character in 2 weeks.
Want cultural armor? Well have fun getting 130g as a average player. Or you can spend money. It’s optional.
Want a fancy exotic? Have fun spending 250 hours farming lodestones. Or you can spend money. It’s optional.
Want a legendary? Have fun dedicating your life for it, and if you can sell a kidney. It’s optional.
Having fun with our holiday event? Spend some money and throw it in the Mystic Toilet.
But you don’t have to. You don’t have to do the only thing this game provides you at end game after you’re done with your personal story and world completion.

Things being optional is a very poor defense for this game. Things are optional in any game. I don’t raid in this other game that i am playing, i can queue to do things whenever i want to, i can explore the world and actually be rewarded for it, i can perform any role in the party, and i can play however i want in the open world, and my gold gain feels a lot more rewarding when i can get the most expensive vendor item in a week, from just exploring the world. Good luck buying Commander in a week from randomly stumbling upon events in Metrica province.

GW2 feels like a F2P game (my opinion)

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Posted by: TheUndefined.1720

TheUndefined.1720

To the OP, really you pointed out most of the main issues I have with Guild Wars 2. Thanks for making this thread. However, I don’t believe this game feels like a F2P game at all.

Guild Wars 2 is living in this very grey area of the MMO genre. It has the polish of an AAA MMO, but it’s quite obivious they’re trying to get as much money as they can through their Cash Shop. I was never under the impression GW2 wasn’t going to pump some muscle into their cash shop, but I did expect for them to act just as they are acting now.

Guild Wars 2 is a constant game of Balance. They may put up extremely rare RNG items in their cash shop chests, but they also offer plenty of items in game as well. So in regards to their cash shop, I think they’re getting it right. They may lean more towards revenue than quality for their players at times, but I see them adjusting their methods very often (compare the halloween event with the wintersday event).

When it comes to rewards, I completely agree the payoff doesn’t equal the work / time put into the effort. I apologize if this may come off offensive, but in all honesty… I just don’t think ANet has many good ideas on lengthening the lifespam of their playerbase.

The easiest, and cheapest way to keep your players playing is to introduce RNG. Players will throw themselves at a brick wall for years over this system (just look at any major MMO out there……). However, many players are getting very tired of this system.

A good solution would be to toss in some speed bumps through leveling. Make personal story quests required to level past those levels. Force players to take a break from grinding XP. Spread out the weapons through the levels, and make players do quests to unlock those weapons for their class. Attach quests to the elite skills.

This is a more costly fix to lengthening the player’s experience than RNG, and that’s why you don’t see more of it.

Either way, I’m starting to enjoy the game again. I definitely feel in a year ANet will find their groove, and have a great balance between making profit, and making fun for their players.

GW2 feels like a F2P game (my opinion)

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Posted by: ArmoredVehicle.2849

ArmoredVehicle.2849

I wholeheartedly agree with everything OP said, Back when I played GW1 for almost 6 years non stop, I started getting bored (after 6 years go figure), so I had switched to Perfect World International (PWI) and for almost a year I kinda enjoyed the game but of course started going downhill, never ending better gear and RNG pack madness (the equivalents of Black Lion chests).

So with a few months left till GW2 I kinda left the mmo scene playing other games and GW1 occasionally and meanwhile hoping GW2 will be even better than GW1.

In my opinion OP said everything already. Often I ask myself “What did we pay the 55 euros for?” cause the game truly feels like an F2P.

In terms of grind I started comparing this game to PWI, mainly because the amount of grind required to get a nice skin is insane. Lodestones that cost close to 2-3 gold each, 250 ectos for just 1 weapon (and those aren’t even legendary). TBH I’ll go as far as saying it’s almost worse than eastern mmos. This was the very reason why I left PWI and refused to go back for any reason.

Also while many praise GW2’s graphics and art design I certainly agree, but in this gaming era it’s normal for such graphic details to be present. I’ve mentioned this just so some people don’t come out saying “But GW2 has awesome graphics and that’s part of why you paid for this game”, If we take it into that there’s many mmos with nice graphics, Planetside 2 comes to mind brand new mmo fps without any price tags.

Also I’d like to mention minipets, In GW1 this was a big thing and many people were proud of owning such items especially the high end ones, so what happened to that in GW2. Minipets were divided into 2 sections, account bound and the tradeable ones.
I for one love to collect these minis and I find it a total slap in the face of players to make these a limited time gamble, let’s take foostivoo (quaggan xmas mini) and the polar bear from GW1.

To get the polar bear you either grinded the same dungeon over and over WITHOUT spending a cent whole event. For the quaggan you had a higher chance but also a higher cost cause of RNG and a limited time. So what happened now? Those who got the mini are well and good, but those unfortunate ones (like me) who don’t play much but still would like to get the mini with time can’t because the whole thing is account bound and there’s no other way to get it unless they offer it next xmas. Polar bear in contrast to this was available all year 2000 ectos or not but it was AVAILABLE and that’s the catch.

Last thing I’d like to mention is Legendary weapons. While some people have these and they are definitely hard to get, the most part of the population barely has 10% of what they require to craft. As has already been stated “the Ascended items are to bridge the gap between exotics and legendaries.” Currently legendaries have same stats as exotics and if the ascended items statement refers to a possible stronger attribute does that mean the game may become P2W if that happens?, I’d like to remind that legendaries can be traded and anyone with a good bank balance can buy this in a quick time.

Also another note on legendaries, I think they should be one of the few weapons that SHOULDN’T be tradeable.

There’s a lot more I could write but I’ll stop here for tonight. I currently play the game cause my GF does and that’s the only reason I enjoy it (still not as much as to go crazy about it like I did when I spent almost 7 years on GW1) and not because the game is super, on the contrary I feel it lacks content and weight, achievements are just like "meh I killed 100 jellyfishes grats I guess) when in GW1 titles had a sense of accomplishment such as doing all missions in hard mode, there was something worth working for. Overall I feel that it’s like ANet used the good name of their game and created a cash cow. I’m not trying to insult or offend anyone but as a customer point of view it’s not worth the money and like I said earlier, if it wasn’t for my GF, I’d have asked for a refund within the first 2 months.

GW2 feels like a F2P game (my opinion)

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Posted by: Rhaps.8540

Rhaps.8540

I started playing mmos just a few years ago, and have mostly only played a few. I don’t have a lifetime of mmo experience or even gaming experience – before I started mmos I had rarely played video games at all. Never owned a console. So this is from someone who doesn’t really have all that elite history or whatever.

I love this game – but I’m starting to feel suckered. In the beginning I was really happy, it seemed like there was no grind in this game and a ton of different things to do. I came to this game to escape grind and money-grabbing. Now I find I’m forced to farm, and farming has become extremely grindsome. I can’t do more than cover waypoint costs anymore. I can’t afford to do all those things that there are to do. Which is why I’ve started playing the trading post, but neither that nor farming are how I want to play. I just want to play, for fun, and make enough gold to cover my expenses and get a neat new thing once in a while. Now, if I try to just play for fun, I lose all my money and end up having to tediously run everywhere, while saying goodbye to any better equipment (can’t get it or the mats to make it from drops anymore). I’m starting to just not feel much like playing anymore. I’ve been in the habit of playing for hours every day, but now I just kind of leave the TP up and do something else while occasionally checking it. It’s fun to help friends out with leveling or story quests sometimes, but I need waypoint money for that. I’d like to craft gifts for friends too, but at the current rate it will be months at least before we can gather the mats from the drop rates we’re seeing now. Getting the ectoplasms for crafting exotics takes an unbelievably long time. Not one of us is even thinking of legendaries, and we are not casual players. Despite having played since beta (guess we missed those exploit opportunities or something), our goals are more like someday having ten gold, leveling up a craft to four hundred… So much grind for these. It’s not fun. Honestly when I have the cash I don’t mind buying gems. Rather, I didn’t mind, when I was enjoying myself and buying gems felt like a lazy shortcut on my part and supporting the game I liked… Not like I had to buy gems just to be able to play. I’m disappointed.

Still, I’m holding out for now, hoping this is temporary. I don’t know a lot about games from a developer’s standpoint and am willing to wait for people who know what they’re doing to figure things out. I just want to add my experience here.

I’m sorry to hear your gameply experience is like that although the whole thing puzzles me immensely. Mainly due to my experience almost being totally opposite.

I’ve never found myself to be so short of money I couldnt afford a waypoint. I’ve only done mob farming for a week to get some tier 3 for my main. I don’t flip profits on the trading house, I do however sell all items on the TP that will give me more profit than vendoring them and I loot everything.

My main activities are levelling alts up to 80, a process that seems to net me about 5-10g in profit once complete, and running dungeons. I’ve never come out of a dungeon in the negative due to repair costs and if im lucky, normally doing a 10 or lower FoTM, will often come out upto 5g in profit after selling up. Some runs where I’ve been lucky enough to get rare cores and multiple exotics I’ve made significantly more. Incidently I never run dungeons in MF gear. In fact my MF suit has been gathering dust since the aforementioned week of intensive farming.

Basically I’ve been playing for fun. Doing the whole exploring, levelling, dungeon delving with friends thing etc. Only a wee bit of grind for a couple armour pieces. And at the end of it all my bank balance keeps climbing. The only time it goes down to the 1g region is when I get a new toon to 80 and I need to spend a bunch on exotic gear. But as soon as I continue my usual gameplay the money rolls back in.

Now, I’m just wondering, what is it you or I are doing differently to each other that’s resulting in such different results? I don’t craft at all so I guess I’m not sinking money into that. Or maybe you arent so festidious as I am about selling every little thing for slightly more moeny on the TP? I’m genuinely curious as to what is making the difference here as otherwise we seem to be playing in a similar way.

Seafarer’s Rest – Guild Leader The Deamon Army [TDA]

GW2 feels like a F2P game (my opinion)

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Posted by: Narly.9023

Narly.9023

I’m pretty shocked at how many people actually think this game is a grind. Free 2 play grinds, are like mabinogi, vindictus, flyff, or any other eastern game. I played those three before; they’re the ones that really sucker you in for your money and time.

For starters, Guild wars 2 is an mmo. You have to put a bit of effort and work for what you want in an mmo and thats normal. It’s supposed to be like a fantasy life in a sense. And in life, things don’t just get dropped from the sky right in front of you any time you want something. This game doesn’t feel like a grind at all, especially if you actually play the content for the content, and not for the end results of whatever it is you’re doing. “It’s the journey, not the destination.” As tons of others have seemed to of noticed and said before, everyone is in such a rush these days.

Lastly, if we really did get anything and everything we wanted in a day or two, this game would be so boring, nothing would feel special or unique, and I doubt as many people would still be playing. When I get something I really want, I like feeling as if I accomplished something.