GW2 is Fun-Centric, not Reward-Centric
TLDR
Most games offer good rewards because they are a good part of FUN.
If you find repeating mindless dungeons, or having nothing to do fun then more power to you.
“if your not having fun, stop playing” WHOA such amazing advice from apologists. This is a persistant MMO. I’m glad you people don’t run companies, businesses or anything.
Really really bad.
IF people want to complain on the forusm let them, if your having fun why are you even here getting butthurt about people complaining and wasting your time coming up with terrible advice like this.
I explained my playtime in my post – I still play, but less, because I am done with my main. This is what I expected from the game, so I am satisfied with it. If I were interested in the dungeon gear look, I would run dungeons, but that isn’t what I find fun, so I don’t do it. I’d advise others to do the same, rather than getting bent into a virtual pretzel because they are not enjoying a video game.
Or they could make it fun for both kinds of players and your silly defence logic can be left out of it, as it benefits nobody.
I think that has more logic to it somehow.
Gotta love these people who are willing to bend over backwards to convince themselves the game is fun.
GW1 was fun. GW2 is a paint by numbers zerg fest with the least amount of character progression of any mmo to date.
NEWSFLASH!
GW2 has a power plateau! its easy to get to. This was advertised many many many many times before release. Either get used to it or get out. It will not change, and us GW2 players do not want it to change. This game is different from most other games, its kinda why we like it.
Yes, and that’s fine, my main complaint, is that explorable mode dungeons, and jumping puzzles, and large scale meta events, reward paltry amounts of silver/copper.
I’m fine with the armor/weapons from explorable dungeons being no better than crafted pieces aside from looks. That’s fine.
The problem lies in 1 person wants a specific look, another person wants a different look, and another person doesn’t like any of the dungeon looks. Now how do you go about telling these people to run dungeons with you… it’s begging. They’ll run it for “fun” maybe once or twice, then they’ll be tired of it and will have to sludge through it for your sake for another 30 runs. That’s AWFUL design.
Make it worth their time too. Ideally, at least compensate more in game money. Ideally I believe there should be a daily explorable dungeon achievement that rewards 1 gold.
Would that be asking too much? Do 1 dungeon per day, get a gold, plus whatever drops in the dungeon. I think i could convince people easier to run dungeons if there was that.
This game is so tightfisted about awarding currency, the only real way to make money is to play the AH instead of playing the game.
GW1, yes, power traders still made the most money, but quests still gave decent money. Doing a DOA run you’d net about 50 platinum between quest reward and dropped gold.. Not counting the gemstones which you could sell to other players or save up for a handfull of runs (like 6) for an armbrace or tormented weapon which you could also sell to other players.
Here you run, get like 30s and get a bunch of SOULBOUND stuff that you can’t trade.
Unless you actually want the cosmetics for the weapon or armor, or need the gift for a legendary, or the sigil/rune, which, most of the time the sigils are terrible and the runes are not as good as runes you can get elsewhere…. dungeons aren’t worth running more than twice per path.
Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer
Disclaimer! I have not read anything but the OP.
I heartily agree that GW2 is based on fun and not reward, my reward for playing is to have fun. Reward = Fun, Fun = Reward…Play → Fun(Reward) → Play → Fun(Reward)…
It just goes on and on! Eventually no doubt I will go “Play → Not so Fun → Break” as is what I do with every game single player or multi.
Good words OP, good words!
If you’re not having fun, stop playing.
That might be worthwhile advice, if this was F2P.
User was infracted for being awesome.
If you’re not having fun, stop playing.
That might be worthwhile advice, if this was F2P.
It’s B2P, which means it is economically identical to a single player game. Yes, you spent $60 on the game, but if you’[re not enjoying a single player game, do you keep playing it anyway? My total playtime is around 150 hours, which is more than I would normally have for a single player game, so I don’t think there’s an economic value issue, at least not for me.
@Devildoc The problem is we’re trying to explain this to people who probably aren’t even close to hitting level 80, so they won’t understand. I suppose their thinking is that if they can’t play the game as much as others, the others should be dragged down in order for them to keep up. They have no logical arguments with which to dispute our concerns, so instead they go for the argument that reeks of stupidity: “Don’t like it, don’t play it.” But how about this? I like the game, but there are several things that need to change and not just to guarantee my enjoyment, but the game’s longevity.
You know what’s funny? The same people who are probably now playing casually because they don’t have the time will be the same people that, months from now (unless something changes) will complain about how long it takes to get karma for exotic armor, how much the waypoint travel and repairs cost and how hard gold is to come by.
All in all, I’m really sick of arguing about level 80 content with people who have hardly hit 40. That’s like discussing relativity with a 2-year old.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
I really, really, really hate the concept of dungeon / faction / whatever specific currency. At it’s core it promotes grinding (since you have to do the very limited tasks required to obtain that currency).
GW2 was realllllly onto something w/ using kharma as a generic form of currency and then just totally ripped it away from the players at level 80 w/ both the dungeon tokens and the astronomical kharma prices (seriously? 384k kharma for 6 pieces of gear? I had just over 65k kharma after getting 100% map completion).
“GW2 takes everything you love about GW1” – M. O’Brien
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson
“The most important thing in any game should be the player” – R. Soesbee
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson
“The most important thing in any game should be the player” – R. Soesbee
I play fun is a stupid argument and you should feel bad.
Thank you.
People need to ask themselves, “What is it that I want? What are the consequences of what I want?”
You might think that wanting Dungeon Armour to be cheaper and more easily obtained is a simple and costless request. But what happens after you get that armour? You’re right back on the forums whining that there’s nothing left for you.
You’re complaining about hitting 80 and not feeling any progression. Presumably in other games that progression comes from increasing power through items. But sooner or later in those games, you run out of items too. And then you demand more progression in the form of even more levels, more items, and numerically tougher content for those things to make easy anyways.
“You people” need to realise that everyone else knows it’s a exercise without an end – if your attitude to gaming is to demand infinite progress, there is literally no way to satisfy you – you will ALWAYS run out of content.
Although they haven’t embraced it wholeheartedly, ANet is at least acknowledging that the sustainable approach to game design is to make content that should be enjoyed for its own sake.
Usually this comes in the form of PvP – after all, some games that have lasted 10+ years, Starcraft and Street Fighter 2, are competitive.
But what about Tetris, Solitaire or Minesweeper? These singleplayer games have also been played for many years, without needing progression. The key is to require some skill and to allow progression through self-improvement.
Personally I believe ANet should do more to foster this kind of PvE – by adding scoring and feedback to content (like getting 5-stars for completing a dungeon in record time with no deaths, etc) it adds to replayability as people “race against themselves.”
Having stupidly grindy dungeon rewards just sends the wrong kind of signal to the wrong kind of player. Get rid of them entirely, perhaps.
It’s fun for me to be rewarded and progress my character in the end game. Can I have my fun too, while you are having yours?
It’s fun for me to be rewarded and progress my character in the end game. Can I have my fun too, while you are having yours?
Agreed. Everybody likes rewards; the reason why some people defend the system as it is right now is not because they themselves don’t like rewards, but because they are afraid of being left behind due to others having more time to play than them. Just look at the first post in the “Thank You” thread and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Thus, they bring up the argument of playing for fun, when they themselves are still leveling, not knowing what it’s like doing the same Dynamic Zergs over and over again. As I said in a previous post, it wouldn’t surprise me if the same people that are now saying level 80 progression is fine (which is utterly, utterly moronic given that they have never experienced it) will be, a couple of months from now, about how it’s impossible to get a full karma set or a full dungeon set for someone who only plays 2 hours a day.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
The mystic forge conduit is DIRECTLY counter to that assertion. It was basically only available to people who rushed through to farm late-game areas ASAP rather than taking their time and having fun. And now I’ll never get one, despite the fact that it has mechanical advantages not available elsewhere.
The original poster is spot on, very well said. It would be great if many folks on this forum could accept the type of game it is…and either play or don’t. The number of repeated threads on the same complaints is overwhelming.
Personally, I’m so very happy to finally see a game designed around this philosophy. One of the main reasons I’ve had trouble enjoying any MMORPGs in the last 10 years is exactly because I was punished actively for wanting to just play the way I enjoyed playing. In most MMORPGs, you are forced into a single play style if you want any reward or challenge at all. In GW2, I can play the way I enjoy and have fun from level 1 to after level 80, there’s an absolute ton of content, and I’m not punished for doing so (I continue to get rewards).
Also, it’s quite clever the way the mechanics are set up…you actually end up getting more / better rewards over time if you stop focusing on them and just enjoy the game. I’m level 65 right now with almost 200 hours played, and having the best time I’ve ever had in an MMO. I was on my way to a level 60-70 zone, but I ended up playing in a level 15-25 zone and I’m having just as much (if not more) fun. Being able to play the whole world at high level is just the best reward that an explorer could ever get. Well done, ArenaNet…finally a game that serves the forgotten masses of people who aren’t interested in a pointless neverending treadmill of bait-and-switch endgame play.
I can’t understand how anyone who has any slightest intention of getting dungeon armor sets NOT considering token gathering as a grind. Its grind in the truest sense of the word. So much about Anet’s philosophy.
i enjoy getting useful in-game rewards by playing MMO’s a certain way – usually by solo exploring and trying to stay alive via “tasks” given to me by the NPCs in the game and occasionally by running group content (raids/dungeons/over-world mobs)
if i get no useful in-game rewards for doing those things, then no, it’s not fun doing them more then ONCE…(IE: i would never play a second or third character or run any group content more then once if there were no in-game reward for doing so) because all of the mystery is gone after the first time through, and the thrill of exploring the “mystery” of a new MMO is the only thing i find fun about an MMO that offers no in-game rewards for playing…
If I don’t like it, I won’t do it.
@Fozzik And how is it that you know endgame won’t be a treadmill? Have they actually released an expansion and they haven’t increased the level? What if they do just that? Will I have to pay 20 gold for my exotics again? Yep.
We don’t know if the game will be a gear treadmill. Sure, gear level might not increase with content patches, but if it does increase with expansions it’s still a treadmill. Thus, the only thing that matters are cosmetics and they’re the BIGGEST grind I have ever seen in an MMO. So how about you get to level 80 before stating that the game is not a grind?
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
Why is the reply with quote button never working on these forums… I swear…
@Gauradan
yup, what’s why I asked for the sake of the conversation actually making sense, that people who are under the level of 80 not contribute. Their perspective is uneducated. They’re not at a point where all there is to do is repetition of content they’ve already done.
That’s when reward has to be taken into account, because repetition of any activity diminishes its fun.
They lack that perspective.
Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer
You don’t HAVE to pay 20 gold for exotics now, so I’m guessing you won’t HAVE to do it again. You can play just fine without exotics, and get gear a bunch of other ways. Also, if you’re playing for fun, over time you’ll build up enough money or karma or whatever to get anything you want in the game. Long-term goals that actually take a long time are fine with me. I don’t need to have all the best gear in a month…because I’m enjoying playing the game primarily, and rewards are a natural result over time.
If they add more levels, you’ll get to keep playing exactly the same way you have…having fun and enjoying the content. If you don’t enjoy levels 1-80 in this game for what they are, and are just rushing to get to some place you think will be better…you might as well quit the game. It is what it is, and doesn’t change into something else at max level or in expansions or any time.
We know it’s not a gear treadmill, and never will be. I’ll get top-stat gear eventually through multiple different means without even focusing on it, and I’ll never NEED top stat gear to do any of the content (other than the natural leveling curve). If I CHOOSE to go after a specific look, that’s entirely my decision, and is not required in any way…and there is no ladder of tiers of gear that I’m forced to climb in order to unlock content, and there never will be. I’m so glad there’s one game like this, finally.
Saying that I don’t understand because I’m below level 80 is nonsense. The game doesn’t change at level 80…it just continues. You are the one who doesn’t understand, because you rushed to level 80 expecting there to be something there that ArenaNet always said there wouldn’t be. They made it entirely crystal clear throughout their marketing how the game would work and what it would be like, and some of us understood it completely before we ever even played. If it’s coming as a surprise to you…sorry, but you’re the one with the issue. I got (and am getting) exactly what I expected (a fun-centric game), and I love it. When I get to level 80, the entire world will be open to me to explore and enjoy events and help out other players. In other words, to just have fun and not constantly be banging my head worrying about whether I’m getting maximum rewards.
People who are confining themselves to a couple of zones at level 80 because they refuse to play the game without constantly getting maximum rewards are missing the point and ruining their own fun.
(edited by Fozzik.1742)
@Fozzik How is that you know I rushed to 80? Well, I hate to break it to you, but I didn’t. I didn’t skip any vistas, nor any story cutscenes and read every single conversation during my personal story quests. I just happened to have a lot of time on my hands.
Furthermore, you say I don’t need to have exotics, but you have no idea as to what difference there is in strength between a character who just hit level 80 and a character in full exotics. None. Nil. Zero. I’ll tell you: it’s enormous. Also, how the hell can you know it won’t be a gear treadmill? Are you certain they won’t increase level with expansions? Can you foresee the future?
Moreover, how do you know how much karma and money you can build over time by simply playing for fun? Do you know what the rewards are at level 80? Crafting materials which a couple of weeks ago you could sell decently are now down to absurd prices because of bots. The only ones who are rewarded in this game are bots, yet fanboys like your good self seem not to care about it.
You’re telling me that cosmetics aren’t a necessity and as such the grind is justified. You’re telling me I’m expecting something ArenaNet never promised. Do you even know what ArenaNet promised regarding dungeon armors? 1 piece of armor per run. That’s 6 runs for a whole set. Do you know how many runs of the VERY SAME dungeon it takes to get a full set? 30-40. If you told me that after 30 runs you’ll still be able to do that dungeon for fun, I’d call you a liar.
So, instead of telling me to quit the game and instead of trying to divine the future for us, how about you get to level 80 first? And while you’re at it, stop distracting ArenaNet’s attention from our legitimate concerns, as players who have spent time at the maximum level, to your uneducated speculations about the future.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
What difference does that power differential make? Is there content you can’t do without exotics? Nope. It’s just more challenging without exotics…but still quite do-able. Over time, you’ll get exotics and whatever unimportant power gap is bothering you will go away.
Do I know how much karma and money you build up over time just by playing for fun? Yep… infinity. That’s right. If I am making more than zero money and karma (even a level 80 in a starter zone makes SOME money and karma), and I play indefinitely, I will make infinity money. The only thing we’re talking about here is that a lot of players feel it’s a necessity to have everything in the game RIGHT NOW. I can 100% guarantee you that I will have everything I want in the game over time, just by playing for fun. I don’t feel impatient…exactly because I’m enjoying the ride.
ArenaNet never PROMISED 1 piece of armor per run. This is the reason why most MMO developers say so little about their game before launch…why they have to keep the community in the dark and only release really ambiguous marketing statements. Anything and everything a developer says is taken as a binding promise by hysterical people in their community. They have said they are in the process of adjusting rewards from dungeons, including making tokens account-wide and increasing the token rewards per run. Relax. Calling me a liar because my preferences are different from yours? I’ve played chess WAY more than 30 times, it’s the “same game” every time…but I still have a lot of fun every game. So yes, it’s quite possible to play something many times if you are just playing it for fun and enjoy the game play.
Nobody’s telling you to quit. What we are telling you, and others like you, is that this game may not be what you are looking for. This game is what it is, so either adapt and start enjoying yourself, or move on. Sitting on message boards and getting all worked up arguing for ArenaNet to change the design of their extremely excellent game is pointless and silly.
Getting to max level in a really short time and then complaining on message boards that the whole game doesn’t revolve around you is pretty much an official pastime in MMORPG communities these days. Luckily it seems that ArenaNet recognizes it’s only a small minority who do this, especially in a game designed around slowing down and enjoying the journey. Even for someone consuming content as fast as you are, there’s plenty to do at max level in GW2. The only question is whether you play the game for fun or constant maximum reward. If you do the latter, expect to have a less than optimum experience, because this game wasn’t designed for that.
(edited by Fozzik.1742)
Why can’t it be both?
Why can’t it be both?
If you can figure out how to pull that off, I bet someone would pay you a lot of money.
Without getting too deeply into it, OP, I agree. It’s not a complaint from me, I hope that’s a meaningful distinction.
Basically yeah I think the game is like Recess back in school. It’s probably your favorite time of the day, but you’re never gonna get an A for it. I really enjoy it, but it’s difficult to engage in sometimes when I realize I have to actively look for a way to make progress, not just do the status quo.
It’s just a shift in mentality when you get down to it. All the same pieces of other MMOs are here, but they’re arranged to make a different device.
Why can’t it be both?
Because people with not enough time to play the game don’t want to get left behind and as such invent excuses like “Your reward is fun”.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
Why can’t it be both?
If you can figure out how to pull that off, I bet someone would pay you a lot of money.
Not sure if OP is talking about the treadmill, but dungeon rewards need to be increased.
Why can’t it be both?
If you can figure out how to pull that off, I bet someone would pay you a lot of money.
-Make karma armor cost less;
-Remove the anti-farm code which doesn’t stop bots, but affects players;
-Look into fixing the economy that is being destroyed by bots;
-Make dungeons actually worth the time spent (which as you said they are looking into; I’m curious to see how it turns out);
-Reduce the waypoint travel cost;
-Remove the stupid armor repair mechanic;
-Make dyes account-bound;
-Reduce the insane cost of cultural armor.
Can I have my “lots of money” now?
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
-Make karma armor cost less
They are increasing dungeon rewards. reading is fundamental
-Remove the anti-farm code which doesn’t stop bots, but affects players
It only affects players who are going way past playing the game as intended. there are some bugs with it that are being fixed. Once it works properly, only the extreme farmers/grinders will feel it at all. That’s as intended in the game design, and falls right in line with the “play for fun, not for constant max rewards” philosophy.
-Look into fixing the economy that is being destroyed by bots
This is an exaggeration, and obviously they are working on the bot issues.
-Make dungeons actually worth the time spent
They are adjusting rewards…but again, read the first post in this thread. They are made to be done FOR FUN, as is the rest of the game. I would do them for zero reward…anything I get is gravy.
-Reduce waypoint travel cost
This contradicts your earlier statement about fixing the economy…since money sinks are required to keep inflation in check and keep the value in items
-remove thes stupid armor repair mechanic
This, again, provides a money sink which is necessary for a healthy economy. it also provides some minor consequences for playing badly…and is designed to let you know that you need to practice more or move to an easier area. If you are incurring high repair costs…this is an issue with your play, not the game.
-Make dyes account bound
totally your personal opinion – some folks might say that having them character-bound provides more variety and longer-term play
-reduce the insane cost of cultural armor
So that everyone would have it in a month and then you’d complaint that there’s no meaningful rewards? Yeah, not a good idea.
You get no money for a bunch of things that they are either already working on, or are just bad and contradictory suggestions.
GW2 is pretty much the same as every other MMO I’ve played and I’ve played a lot. It’s most similar to Warhammer Online with dynamic events and realm versus realm.
All MMOs are 99% alike.
GW2 big innovation is that you no longer have to pick up the quest or turn it in.
The artwork is fantastic, beyond anything else in the game.
The combat is okay, dodging is not what the hype made it out to be. The skills are found in every other MMO.
The world setting is pretty good, but most AAA MMOs have a good world setting, Rift, Warhammer, Conan.
Zones are very repetitive. You fight the same mobs with different skins in each zone.
The thing I think will make GW2 have staying power is WvW, not even sPVP.
If you bought this game for the PvE, I feel sorry for you. Well, not really because you’ll be back in WoW tomorrow.
Rieselle.5079 said:
“You people” need to realise that everyone else knows it’s a exercise without an end – if your attitude to gaming is to demand infinite progress, there is literally no way to satisfy you – you will ALWAYS run out of content.
Exactly. Even WoW, which basically has made a business model out of the infinite progression model, can’t keep up with consumption. GW2 is perhaps the largest MMOG world I’ve ever seen at release, and 3 weeks later we have people complaining about “lack of content” and character progression.
It’s obvious that even if the whole GW2 team worked on nothing but content for the infinite-progression crowd, there would be no satisfying them, and that would turn the game into a newer version of WoW. Perhaps that is what these players really want – an updated version of WoW (one wonders why they don’t just go play TERA, AION, RIFT, etc.)
People need to ask themselves, “What is it that I want? What are the consequences of what I want?”
So, is what they really want just an easier, less-expensive path to legendary gear? Why? When that’s done, what then? Are they obsessive-compulsives that must have whatever is considered the best in a game, whether it is cosmetic or not, before they can feel satisfied or like they “beat” the game and move on?
Once they get their legendary gear and max out all their character progression potential, what then? Do they expect ANET to provide more linear character progression with each expansion, so they can buy the expansion, max out their character progression in a few days or weeks, and then complain some more about how little character progression it offered?
Devildoc.6721 said:
yup, what’s why I asked for the sake of the conversation actually making sense, that people who are under the level of 80 not contribute. Their perspective is uneducated. They’re not at a point where all there is to do is repetition of content they’ve already done.
Actually, it’s those who are already level 80 and are clamoring for more content that should be excluded from the conversation, because they certainly do not represent a portion of the marketplace that has reasonable expectations of a $60 expenditure – or, for that matter, of video games in general.
That’s when reward has to be taken into account, because repetition of any activity diminishes its fun.
The only thing that diminishes the fun of an activity in my life is if I do it for reasons other than having fun. Playing pool doesn’t become “less fun” each time I play it. Barbecues on the back patio don’t become “less fun” each time I do it.
Now, if I do those things more often than I want to because of some other reason, then I’m not doing that thing because I enjoy it, but rather for some other reason. Then, it becomes like a job because I’m doing that thing for some reward other than the enjoyment of doing that thing in and of itself. Outdoor barbecues even cost me money. The pool table cost me money. I’m willing to foot the cost of doing those things over and over because I enjoy them.
You just made my point for me. If you don’t enjoy doing the dungeons enough to pay for it in whatever equipment fees you accrue, and if you get less enjoyment out of it every time you do it, then you’re not doing dungeons because they’re fun, you’re doing them because you want something else.
Which brings us back to the title of the thread, and to the game design philosophy. Just because you and others are willing to beat your heads against an unenjoyable wall for a some cosmetic carrot, don’t blame ANET for your frustration. You’re bringing it on yourself by forcing yourself to do something you don’t really enjoy doing for a cosmetic variance that has no significant in-game impact other than, I guess, to feed your sense of having “beat” the game.
(edited by Wintyre Fraust.6534)
They are increasing dungeon rewards. reading is fundamental
You don’t get karma from dungeons. You have once again proven how uneducated your arguments are.
It only affects players who are going way past playing the game as intended. there are some bugs with it that are being fixed. Once it works properly, only the extreme farmers/grinders will feel it at all. That’s as intended in the game design, and falls right in line with the “play for fun, not for constant max rewards” philosophy.
They promised you could play the game however you wanted. If I want to farm 12 hours in the exact same place, then I should very well be allowed to do it.
This is an exaggeration, and obviously they are working on the bot issues.
That is why people report seeing more bots and bots every day. That’s why gold sellers are still around.
They are adjusting rewards…but again, read the first post in this thread. They are made to be done FOR FUN, as is the rest of the game. I would do them for zero reward…anything I get is gravy.
Well, I didn’t know doing the same thing a hundred times over can be as fun every time as the first time. Also, drop the chess argument, there’s more fun to doing something in the real world multiple times than in a virtual environment.
This contradicts your earlier statement about fixing the economy…since money sinks are required to keep inflation in check and keep the value in items
It doesn’t contradict my previous statement at all. Bots are destroying the economy, no the lack of money sinks. If anything money sinks make it worse.
This, again, provides a money sink which is necessary for a healthy economy. it also provides some minor consequences for playing badly…and is designed to let you know that you need to practice more or move to an easier area. If you are incurring high repair costs…this is an issue with your play, not the game.
Also a mechanic they were saying they felt wasn’t necessary. They were so proud about how the didn’t feel the need to punish people for dying. I guess they need to encourage you to use the cash shop somehow.
totally your personal opinion – some folks might say that having them character-bound provides more variety and longer-term play
Totally not my personal opinion. I remember the reactions on fansites when they changed it. Obviously, those reactions were only given a cynical response that by Crystin Cox, telling us how they did it so that we would get a sense of progression on each character. Again, ArenaNet telling us how to play the game even though they had been marketing it for years as the game where you can choose how to play.
So that everyone would have it in a month and then you’d complaint that there’s no meaningful rewards? Yeah, not a good idea.
I don’t care about showing off how good I am. I care about what my character looks like. I shouldn’t have to grind my backside off to get the look that I like. Also, there are meaningful rewards; they’re called legendaries.
You get no money for a bunch of things that they are either already working on, or are just bad and contradictory suggestions.
Among my suggestions you claim that there are things that:
-they are working on -> true;
-bad suggestions -> well, I guess the game was pretty bad a year or so ago, because my suggestions would revert the game to that state. It makes you wonder how, despite it still being so bad back then, there were less people complaining about it.
-contradictory suggestions -> just because you’re calling two of my statements contradictory doesn’t mean they are so. I said bots are destroying the economy, not the lack of gold sinks. Try harder.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
(edited by Gauradan.8361)
If you want to be as self-sufficient as possible and do your tradeskills. it’s entirely necessary to farm lots of mob drop items. If you are unable to farm enough you will have to buy from from the BLTP. If you had to buy all your crafting materials from the BLTP, then clearly there would be no profit in selling your crafted items. Allowing players to make a profit from crafting seems to be considered an exploit by ArenaNet. Of course you are getting some XP for your investment of time and money, and perhaps thats enough justification for doing it.
The financial rewards for completing events and dungeons can be very easily negated by repair bills. The accumulation of wealth is certainly a good measure of progress beyond any level caps in any MMOG. I believe there’s more than enough money sinks in the game, and I suspect that the planned player housing will be a significant money sink. It’s still possible for the average player to accumulate wealth in GW2, there is just a higher-degree of difficulty to doing it.
The acquisition of a single Legendary weapon is the most significant end-game grind in Guild Wars 2. Having one of those items equipped would be a very prestigious thing for any player; but the grind to obtain the item is simply very time-consuming and doesn’t look like a whole lot of fun. At the end of the journey we will have our gratification I guess. Heck i need to grind over 14 million more XP in order to have enough SP available to get my Legendary item.
Not sure how long it will take me to have two full sets of Max PvE Gear & 8 20-slot bags. Increasing the difficulty of achieving some goals in the game does not necessarily make the game more fun for me. I’m not the most competitive player, player rank and who gets it done first hardly matters to me. IN any event most of the game content looks achievable to me, but it’s still a labor of love. Not sure that I can manage to achieve all those goals on a second character though, it’s simply too much repetitious work!
The only elite gear set that I even like the look of, is the Inquest Exotic set. I was a bit disappointed to discover that all the rare dungeon sets look exactly the same!
(edited by Token.6501)
while i understand the DE’s farming cap at the same time this could work against them and push people out of the areas, Anet need to keep an eye out so this doesnt happen.
… Furthermore, you say I don’t need to have exotics, but you have no idea as to what difference there is in strength between a character who just hit level 80 and a character in full exotics. None. Nil. Zero. I’ll tell you: it’s enormous. …
The power difference between rares and exotics is EXACTLY 12%, stop inflating numbers to make your point valid. It just makes you look stupid.
Also, drop the chess argument, there’s more fun to doing something in the real world multiple times than in a virtual environment.
You never do anything in a “virtual environment”; everything a player does, he does in the real world, even if what he is doing in the real world is playing a video game. People play the same video game over and over, and in those games do the same thing over, and over, and over, and enjoy it. The trick to an ongoing, healthy enjoyment of any activity is moderation – if you become addicted to a thing, it becomes unenjoyable, but no matter how unenjoyable it becomes, you still feel compelled to do it. That’s either addiction or obsession, and it isn’t healthy.
If you don’t enjoy dungeon runs, don’t do them. It’s really that simple. If you’re doing them because the only thing you have left to do in GW2 is get the gear you can get by doing dungeons repeatedly, I suggest that you’ve moved from doing what you enjoy to doing what you are addicted to, or are obsessed with.
It’s not Anet’s job to try and satisfy obsessions and addictions. In fact, it goes against their design philosophy.
Excuse me? Fun-centric? Oh yeah, it’s totally fun to have to try to kill a champion enemy for five minutes with four other people, only to finally get a loot from it, which happened to be a low level blue hammer. FUN!
One who prefers their own Elysium, a collected being of brilliant ambience and nurturing.
Excuse me? Fun-centric? Oh yeah, it’s totally fun to have to try to kill a champion enemy for five minutes with four other people, only to finally get a loot from it, which happened to be a low level blue hammer. FUN!
If your idea of fun is reward-centric, GW2 probably isn’t the best game for you.
Excuse me? Fun-centric? Oh yeah, it’s totally fun to have to try to kill a champion enemy for five minutes with four other people, only to finally get a loot from it, which happened to be a low level blue hammer. FUN!
If your idea of fun is reward-centric, GW2 probably isn’t the best game for you.
It’s not that my fun is reward-oriented, but I’d like to be properly rewarded when I do something. If I were to kill a low level enemy, I’d expect a crap item. But from a champion (which is pretty much like a boss enemy)? I expect better things. :/ It’s just common sense.
One who prefers their own Elysium, a collected being of brilliant ambience and nurturing.
Excuse me? Fun-centric? Oh yeah, it’s totally fun to have to try to kill a champion enemy for five minutes with four other people, only to finally get a loot from it, which happened to be a low level blue hammer. FUN!
If your idea of fun is reward-centric, GW2 probably isn’t the best game for you.
It’s not that my fun is reward-oriented, but I’d like to be properly rewarded when I do something. If I were to kill a low level enemy, I’d expect a crap item. But from a champion (which is pretty much like a boss enemy)? I expect better things. :/ It’s just common sense.
I took my time to mark your contradiction for yourself. What you said is the very definition of reward-oriented, where you demand to be rewarded for your time and effort.
I’ve killed plenty of champions on this game just because I wanted to see the place where they were and had to pass through them. I had my reasons, the fights were interesting (some of them could have been better tho) and my reward was the feeling that I managed to do what I wanted, in the end.
Yes, it could have dropped a +500 Infernal Sword of Eternal Death, it would have been great, but I didn’t find it unfun just because I had no drops.
The power difference between rares and exotics is EXACTLY 12%, stop inflating numbers to make your point valid. It just makes you look stupid.
Oh, so you were full rare when you hit 80, including accesories, ring and necklaces. My fault then, I guess I was doing something wrong.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
Excuse me? Fun-centric? Oh yeah, it’s totally fun to have to try to kill a champion enemy for five minutes with four other people, only to finally get a loot from it, which happened to be a low level blue hammer. FUN!
If your idea of fun is reward-centric, GW2 probably isn’t the best game for you.
It’s not that my fun is reward-oriented, but I’d like to be properly rewarded when I do something. If I were to kill a low level enemy, I’d expect a crap item. But from a champion (which is pretty much like a boss enemy)? I expect better things. :/ It’s just common sense.
I took my time to mark your contradiction for yourself. What you said is the very definition of reward-oriented, where you demand to be rewarded for your time and effort.
I’ve killed plenty of champions on this game just because I wanted to see the place where they were and had to pass through them. I had my reasons, the fights were interesting (some of them could have been better tho) and my reward was the feeling that I managed to do what I wanted, in the end.
Yes, it could have dropped a +500 Infernal Sword of Eternal Death, it would have been great, but I didn’t find it unfun just because I had no drops.
It’s not a contradiction. It’s a simple matter of fact. Higher level enemies give you more experience points and, hopefully, better loot. Or at least, that’s how it should be anyway.
Obviously I don’t expect it to drop a legendary, but you know, at least something that matches its level at the very least (it was Lv. 36, I think? I got a lvl. 16 item).
I do things for fun in the game; I do map exploration a lot and run around and good off a lot, but when I kill enemies, they need to give me the proper amount of experience points (a lv. 5 boar isn’t going to give me 10,000 exp, right? Only about 10 or so). That’s all. > >;
One who prefers their own Elysium, a collected being of brilliant ambience and nurturing.
If you want to be as self-sufficient as possible and do your tradeskills. it’s entirely necessary to farm lots of mob drop items.
Let me explain why this argument is invalid.
The concept of “farming” means “to engage in activity X, for the purpose of getting benefit Y”. IOW, you either kill mob X because it is fun to kill mob X, or you kill mob X for some other reason. In the case of “farming”, you kill mob X (or do dungeon X) to get item Y. You aren’t doing X for X’s sake, but for the purpose of getting Y.
So let’s say you enjoy doing dungeons, but you only enjoy doing them once in a while for their own sake. You will acquire Y eventually, but at a very slow rate. You only “farm” a thing because you want to get Y faster than you would otherwise.
Farming isn’t necessary to get Y; farming is only necessary to get Y faster than you normally would just doing the things in the game you feel like/enjoy doing at the time. If you enjoy farming, then it wouldn’t matter how much Y you got for farming, because you’d just enjoy farming.
No, what this is all really about is getting material, functional in-game rewards as fast as possible for doing things you don’t really enjoy doing., and people complaining that they can’t get those rewards fast enough, or easy enough, to suit them, so they can feel like they “beat” the game.
Farming isn’t necessary, it’s your option.
The power difference between rares and exotics is EXACTLY 12%, stop inflating numbers to make your point valid. It just makes you look stupid.
Oh, so you were full rare when you hit 80, including accesories, ring and necklaces. My fault then, I guess I was doing something wrong.
Not sure what you meant by that comment of yours but what I said was not based on opinion, it’s a fact, and a well documented one. An rare item is 88%, in terms of power, of what an exotic is.
So if you hit 80 with a full set of rares, when compared to another person with a full set of exotics he will be nothing more than 12% stronger.
(Obivously, I’m taking stats tailoring out of the equation)
(edited by deriver.5381)
The only thing we’re talking about here is that a lot of players feel it’s a necessity to have everything in the game RIGHT NOW.
Incorrect. Listen to the arguments and don’t assume things.
We’re not arguing over the desire to make things easier in the game to obtain, but the manner in which they are obtained.
The game advocates a fun, enjoyable, “non-grindy” experience through the 1-80 gameplay, but then abruptly throws “now go do dungeon x 46 times” in your face. It’s ridiculous. I personally would like to see elaborate story chains (that may very well take as much time as the grind) to make these vendors available.
And then to have folks in the forum spit out the generic “if you don’t like it, don’t do it” response. Let me make something painfully clear. Nobody here arguing against the level 80 experience is trying to take any fun away from any other player, so why are you folks arguing against us? We are working to IMPROVE the gameplay experience. So either come back with logical arguments over why our suggestions won’t work, or GTFO.
If you’re not 80, then you really can’t have any logical arguments over the gameplay at 80.
“GW2 takes everything you love about GW1” – M. O’Brien
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson
“The most important thing in any game should be the player” – R. Soesbee
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson
“The most important thing in any game should be the player” – R. Soesbee
It’s not a contradiction. It’s a simple matter of fact. Higher level enemies give you more experience points and, hopefully, better loot. Or at least, that’s how it should be anyway.
According to whom?
I do things for fun in the game; I do map exploration a lot and run around and good off a lot, but when I kill enemies, they need to give me the proper amount of experience points
“Proper”, according to what? Your expectations as have been conditioned by other games that employ skinner-box reward treadmills?
Excuse me? Fun-centric? Oh yeah, it’s totally fun to have to try to kill a champion enemy for five minutes with four other people, only to finally get a loot from it, which happened to be a low level blue hammer. FUN!
If your idea of fun is reward-centric, GW2 probably isn’t the best game for you.
It’s not that my fun is reward-oriented, but I’d like to be properly rewarded when I do something. If I were to kill a low level enemy, I’d expect a crap item. But from a champion (which is pretty much like a boss enemy)? I expect better things. :/ It’s just common sense.
I took my time to mark your contradiction for yourself. What you said is the very definition of reward-oriented, where you demand to be rewarded for your time and effort.
I’ve killed plenty of champions on this game just because I wanted to see the place where they were and had to pass through them. I had my reasons, the fights were interesting (some of them could have been better tho) and my reward was the feeling that I managed to do what I wanted, in the end.
Yes, it could have dropped a +500 Infernal Sword of Eternal Death, it would have been great, but I didn’t find it unfun just because I had no drops.
It’s not a contradiction. It’s a simple matter of fact. Higher level enemies give you more experience points and, hopefully, better loot. Or at least, that’s how it should be anyway.
Obviously I don’t expect it to drop a legendary, but you know, at least something that matches its level at the very least (it was Lv. 36, I think? I got a lvl. 16 item).
I do things for fun in the game; I do map exploration a lot and run around and good off a lot, but when I kill enemies, they need to give me the proper amount of experience points (a lv. 5 boar isn’t going to give me 10,000 exp, right? Only about 10 or so). That’s all. > >;
If you have been given a lower level loot, it was probably because you were playing on a lower level map, am I right?
The game has a system in place that, if you are downleveling yourself to play on a lower level zone, you may or may not get loot based on your real level. Sometimes the loot will be based to the level of the zone. This may have been the case for you.
Not sure what you meant by that comment of yours but what I said was not based on opinion, it’s a fact, and a well documented one. An rare item is 88%, in terms of power, of what an exotic is.
So if you hit 80 with a full set of rares, when compared to another person with a full set of exotics he will be nothing more than 12% stronger.
(Obivously, I’m taking stats tailoring out of the equation)
And I never said it was based on opinion. I was trying to point out the fact that you won’t hit level 80 in full rares; it’s doubtful that even all the armor pieces will be full rare. So the difference will be quite significant when you switch to full exotics.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
Excuse me? Fun-centric? Oh yeah, it’s totally fun to have to try to kill a champion enemy for five minutes with four other people, only to finally get a loot from it, which happened to be a low level blue hammer. FUN!
If your idea of fun is reward-centric, GW2 probably isn’t the best game for you.
It’s not that my fun is reward-oriented, but I’d like to be properly rewarded when I do something. If I were to kill a low level enemy, I’d expect a crap item. But from a champion (which is pretty much like a boss enemy)? I expect better things. :/ It’s just common sense.
I took my time to mark your contradiction for yourself. What you said is the very definition of reward-oriented, where you demand to be rewarded for your time and effort.
I’ve killed plenty of champions on this game just because I wanted to see the place where they were and had to pass through them. I had my reasons, the fights were interesting (some of them could have been better tho) and my reward was the feeling that I managed to do what I wanted, in the end.
Yes, it could have dropped a +500 Infernal Sword of Eternal Death, it would have been great, but I didn’t find it unfun just because I had no drops.
It’s not a contradiction. It’s a simple matter of fact. Higher level enemies give you more experience points and, hopefully, better loot. Or at least, that’s how it should be anyway.
Obviously I don’t expect it to drop a legendary, but you know, at least something that matches its level at the very least (it was Lv. 36, I think? I got a lvl. 16 item).
I do things for fun in the game; I do map exploration a lot and run around and good off a lot, but when I kill enemies, they need to give me the proper amount of experience points (a lv. 5 boar isn’t going to give me 10,000 exp, right? Only about 10 or so). That’s all. > >;
If you have been given a lower level loot, it was probably because you were playing on a lower level map, am I right?
The game has a system in place that, if you are downleveling yourself to play on a lower level zone, you may or may not get loot based on your real level. Sometimes the loot will be based to the level of the zone. This may have been the case for you.
>Lv. 35~36 Champion
>Lower level map
No, you are not right. I am well aware of down-leveling, but I wasn’t in a low level map. In fact, the other people who were with me all had the exact same complaints as me. We enjoyed the champion battle, don’t get me wrong, but we were disappointed in the loots. The only thing decent was the experience points given to us.
One who prefers their own Elysium, a collected being of brilliant ambience and nurturing.
Listen carefully: all games are about the rewards.
I can attest to this.
I remember grinding away in SimCity 4 til I was rewarded. After I was rewarded I was able to win. That made it all worthwhile.
I’m doing the same thing on Minecraft now. I grind til I get my reward then I am able to show off my reward to other players. Nothing beats that. Very fun.
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