Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
(edited by Gauradan.8361)
GW2 is Fun-Centric, not Reward-Centric
Shinies are fun!
As long as you don’t get all “My Pressious!” over shinies….
All hail Emperor Anet, and their new clothes!
Wintyre Fraust.6534I enjoy being rewarded. It’s not the reason I play a game. It’s the reason I have a job. I already have a job. I don’t look to games for “rewards”. They’re nice. They’re fun. They’re not why I play a game.
If you’re talking about your monthly pay thats not a reward lol.
If that was a reward its bordering with slavery XD
But if you’re talking about the sense of accomplishment, I get you.
Thats a real sense of accomplishment at your work but to feel a sense of accomplishment over a video game… Kinda hard to do.
Its not like hey. hey I got the first to complete AC Exp mode on my server cool huh.
As others have pointed out.
The problem is the game isnt fun to play. GW1 didnt offer much in the way of rewards, even though it was better than this game. Still, the combat was lots of fun, so i would literally play the game for fun.
With GW2 this doesnt happen. I’m bored quite fast. Not beeing any meaningful rewards to at least drag me along, there really is zero reasons to keep playing,
As others have pointed out.
The problem is the game isnt fun to play. GW1 didnt offer much in the way of rewards, even though it was better than this game. Still, the combat was lots of fun, so i would literally play the game for fun.
With GW2 this doesnt happen. I’m bored quite fast. Not beeing any meaningful rewards to at least drag me along, there really is zero reasons to keep playing,
Indeed considering the mobs in dungeons are giant hp pools who cut you down to size in a matter of 3-4 hits.
Its a drag and a difficult one, but hey I enjoy the challenge, its just at the end of it, I’d like a stable monetary reward.
The anti grind thing bugs me but it’s the only complaint I have with the game. I decided I could either accept the things in GW2 that bug me and continue to play or I can choose to play another game. Regardless of which decision I had made, it was $70 well spent.
Even though I have a level 80 character, I haven’t hit boredom mode yet. I keep thinking of more things that I can do. And I have sooooo many achievement left to max out.
The game doesn’t tell you, here’s what you do at end game. It lets you make that decision for yourself. I don’t understand the people who say the game isn’t fun, or the controls are clunky or whatever complaint they have. I honestly just think the game isn’t for them. And that’s ok. It’s why there are so many different games on the market. Everyone’s idea of fun is a little bit different. I personally can’t stand FPS games but I know a lot of people love them. It’s ok to not like the game.
I like how everyone here ignored my post. I mean really.
Come on.I can’t believe how many of you don’t know what this game is about.
Wait, are people expecting to labour in a game?
I thought this was made for fun.
Wait, are people expecting to labour in a game?
I thought this was made for fun.
It is made for fun.
However, some people want rewards with actually playing the game. Like wanting to win the superbowl while never playing football.
There are legitimate concerns about the risk to reward ration (you can get more rewards from hearts than you can spending 15 minutes downing a champion enemy, dungeons needing more incentives) and these concerns are fine. However, what SOME, not all, people want is all get everything in the game while investing a significantly low amount of time.
Which is why I think ANet needs to put a “I won the Game!” title in the cash shop for 800 gems.
Here’s what people thought of GW1 when it first came out: http://tinyurl.com/bntcvyc
“A release is 7 days or less away or has just happened within the last 7 days…
These are the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria.”
“A release is 7 days or less away or has just happened within the last 7 days…
These are the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria.”
Listen carefully: all games are about the rewards. If there is no “win” scenario there is no fun. The win scenario could be I gathered x and delivered it to y and then got reward z. The value of award z is the trick. For any game to be fun there has to be incentive. What GW2 does really well is feel brand new out the gate. When you roll your first character and play through the first 10 levels you’re hooked. It’s not like anything you’ve played before.
Once you get past that experience (~level 40-50) you need a strong reward system to keep the game fun and interesting and honestly, it’s not there with this game.
You also need a combat system that forces team strategy at some stage. This game does not. You can clear dungeons without team strategy in story mode.
Since there are no dedicated roles the role you play is just doing the best you can without regard to others. You don’t have to play this way, but if you choose to the game will let you and will let you make it through 95% of the content by doing so. I can not stress how insanely bad that is for an MMO. It’s not a stab at action-combat, I don’t even want the holy trinity back. I just wish they made us work a bit harder and use real team strategy.
There is very little reason to care at all about other players in this game. In fact since you have to pay waypoint cost to go help someone it’s very much the anti-MMO in the the bad ways as well the good ones.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
Excellent post, Sam.
Here’s a video I thought covers the subject well too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgIeBgLO6rY&hd=1
User was infracted for being awesome.
Here’s a philosophy they will never conquer or beat:
EVERYTHING loses its fun when repeated over a dozen times. I think only sex remains fun after a few dozen times in a row that it requires to get dungeon sets. I think even hardcore drugs stop being fun by then and more about pure unadulterated addiction.
Challenging dungeons with friends is fun one… two.. maybe 3 times.. but after you know how to beat it like the back of your hand.. it’s farming, it’s not fun.
Gold needs to go up, at least give a good reward for a “daily explorable dungeon”
Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer
Here’s a philosophy they will never conquer or beat:
EVERYTHING loses its fun when repeated over a dozen times. I think only sex remains fun after a few dozen times in a row that it requires to get dungeon sets. I think even hardcore drugs stop being fun by then and more about pure unadulterated addiction.
Challenging dungeons with friends is fun one… two.. maybe 3 times.. but after you know how to beat it like the back of your hand.. it’s farming, it’s not fun.
Gold needs to go up, at least give a good reward for a “daily explorable dungeon”
This! If they want us to do dungeons dozens of time in order to get the armor they should at least make them more rewarding. Same is the case with Dynamic Events. 1s 80c or whatever it is per event is a joke.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
The OP seems to think it’s impossible for a game to be both Fun-centric AND Reward-centric. Apparently it’s not fun to earn things…
The OP seems to think it’s impossible for a game to be both Fun-centric AND Reward-centric. Apparently it’s not fun to earn things…
Well, if to them that’s not fun, they could just destroy the rewards. In the meantime, the rest of us will be enjoying our rewards and everyone will be happy.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
a game without rewards will never last more than a month
I have to say I agree with the OP completely. In fact, I was trying to find an articulate way of saying this myself, so thank you for saying it for me.:)
This game is about playing the content. I LOVED Rift- until I realized that I would have to “hurry up” and get past the game to have any fun with those who either have the time or wish to blow through content to get to “the fun”.
I honestly think that the lack of a sub really frees the devs to make the game “fun centirc”, or the way they envisioned it. They don’t need to keep you playing! I know it is hard to grasp, but they don’t. They have already made a boatload of money and will continue to because, for a lot of us, the experience of playing IS the reward.. Basically, if you don’t like it, you are free to go. Try it out in six months or so. Might be more fun for ya. Might not. It does not matter. NO PRESSURE on us….NO PRESSURE on them.
If you like to “smell the roses”- like me- then this is the game for you. If you scoff at that, go play something else. Then, come back when an expansion come sout, and play it for two weeks before you get bored again.
I LOVE THIS GAME. Thanks for finally thinking of people like me when designing your MMO, ANet. There are many happy people out there who feel exactly as i do too.
I have to say I agree with the OP completely. In fact, I was trying to find an articulate way of saying this myself, so thank you for saying it for me.:)
This game is about playing the content. I LOVED Rift- until I realized that I would have to “hurry up” and get past the game to have any fun with those who either have the time or wish to blow through content to get to “the fun”.
I honestly think that the lack of a sub really frees the devs to make the game “fun centirc”, or the way they envisioned it. They don’t need to keep you playing! I know it is hard to grasp, but they don’t. They have already made a boatload of money and will continue to because, for a lot of us, the experience of playing IS the reward.. Basically, if you don’t like it, you are free to go. Try it out in six months or so. Might be more fun for ya. Might not. It does not matter. NO PRESSURE on us….NO PRESSURE on them.
If you like to “smell the roses”- like me- then this is the game for you. If you scoff at that, go play something else. Then, come back when an expansion come sout, and play it for two weeks before you get bored again.
I LOVE THIS GAME. Thanks for finally thinking of people like me when designing your MMO, ANet. There are many happy people out there who feel exactly as i do too.
So others shouldn’t be rewarded because you don’t have the time to play as much as them? If I invest more time and effort in the game than you, why should you and I be on equal footing? That’s like saying: I only work 2 hours a day but I want to be paid as much as the guy who works 8. If I have the time and resolve to farm, why shouldn’t I be able to make gold proportional to the effort?
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
I have to say I agree with the OP completely. In fact, I was trying to find an articulate way of saying this myself, so thank you for saying it for me.:)
This game is about playing the content. I LOVED Rift- until I realized that I would have to “hurry up” and get past the game to have any fun with those who either have the time or wish to blow through content to get to “the fun”.
I honestly think that the lack of a sub really frees the devs to make the game “fun centirc”, or the way they envisioned it. They don’t need to keep you playing! I know it is hard to grasp, but they don’t. They have already made a boatload of money and will continue to because, for a lot of us, the experience of playing IS the reward.. Basically, if you don’t like it, you are free to go. Try it out in six months or so. Might be more fun for ya. Might not. It does not matter. NO PRESSURE on us….NO PRESSURE on them.
If you like to “smell the roses”- like me- then this is the game for you. If you scoff at that, go play something else. Then, come back when an expansion come sout, and play it for two weeks before you get bored again.
I LOVE THIS GAME. Thanks for finally thinking of people like me when designing your MMO, ANet. There are many happy people out there who feel exactly as i do too.So others shouldn’t be rewarded because you don’t have the time to play as much as them? If I invest more time and effort in the game than you, why should you and I be on equal footing? That’s like saying: I only work 2 hours a day but I want to be paid as much as the guy who works 8. If I have the time and resolve to farm, why shouldn’t I be able to make gold proportional to the effort?
The reward is IN PLAYING THE GAME! I can “smell the roses” all I want. My brother can “power level” all he wants. Guess what? We can ALWAYS still play together on ANY character regardless of how much “work” either of us “put in”. He still has far more gold than I do, he still has far more skill options, etc for his “effort”. If I were getting paid instead of having paid for this game, you might have a point,
Besides, the point of this thread is that you have the option of playing MANY other games that will reward your time and effort in the way which makes the game fun for you. Why does this game have to follow that philosophy? It doesn’t, and the lack of a sub reinforces that. I love it.
The reward is IN PLAYING THE GAME! I can “smell the roses” all I want. My brother can “power level” all he wants. Guess what? We can ALWAYS still play together on ANY character regardless of how much “work” either of us “put in”. He still has far more gold than I do, he still has far more skill options, etc for his “effort”. If I were getting paid instead of having paid for this game, you might have a point,
Besides, the point of this thread is that you have the option of playing MANY other games that will reward your time and effort in the way which makes the game fun for you. Why does this game have to follow that philosophy? It doesn’t, and the lack of a sub reinforces that. I love it.
Out of curiosity, are you even level 80? Because if you’re not, you can’t possibly know how fun it is playing at that level. After you’ve done the same event a couple of times you’ll dread having to do it again. MMOs are designed to be repetitive. There’s no way anyone could make an MMO otherwise. Sure, the leveling might have been fun, but once you’ve hit the cap and start doing the same thing over and over again, if there’s no reward, no goal to work towards, at some point you’ll get bored.
Games have a certain degree of replayability; games like Mass Effect or The Witcher are worth playing through a couple of times because of the variety in choices. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t offer as much choice as those games while leveling, so that part of the game doesn’t have much replayability (let’s face it: personal story choices don’t have as much impact as they claimed they would). So, how do you prolong the game’s lifespan? By using the endgame; but how? It’s obvious to everyone that you can’t have an infinite amount of endgame activities. This means you have to reward people in order to give a piece of content replay value. The game doesn’t currently do that.
You can say they already have your money so they don’t care about you playing. That’s wrong. They need people to buy their expansions, otherwise the game will die out. How do you make people buy expansions? Simple, you give the previous content replayability, so that they know the coming content will be the same. If you don’t do that, people might think that the expansion will be the same as the original content: play it for a couple of weeks then get bored and leave.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
Read it all, and agree with so much, it makes me very indecisive. Both the philosophy of the OP and some of the counters to it have value. I am hoping, after reading this, that Anet do a couple of things. I have one char at lvl45 and one at 23, and am concerned very much with the costs associated with travel and low (or none) rewards. I went to do AC and after 3 attempts, have not succeeded; it was fun, but the cost to repair my armour, and to get there, is prohibitive. This needs addressing. I am not a hard core player rushing, and am careful with the gold I make, but much more cost and I will rarely, if ever do dungeons without having to farm for gold. This does remove from the fun. I also would like a random chance of a ‘green drop’ (ref GW1, I played for 6 years) as well as, if not instead of the tokens..it is that random chance that makes dungeons more attractive. Fun without reward is ok, but to make me repeat things enough i require both.
I have to say I agree with the OP completely. In fact, I was trying to find an articulate way of saying this myself, so thank you for saying it for me.:)
This game is about playing the content. I LOVED Rift- until I realized that I would have to “hurry up” and get past the game to have any fun with those who either have the time or wish to blow through content to get to “the fun”.
I honestly think that the lack of a sub really frees the devs to make the game “fun centirc”, or the way they envisioned it. They don’t need to keep you playing! I know it is hard to grasp, but they don’t. They have already made a boatload of money and will continue to because, for a lot of us, the experience of playing IS the reward.. Basically, if you don’t like it, you are free to go. Try it out in six months or so. Might be more fun for ya. Might not. It does not matter. NO PRESSURE on us….NO PRESSURE on them.
If you like to “smell the roses”- like me- then this is the game for you. If you scoff at that, go play something else. Then, come back when an expansion come sout, and play it for two weeks before you get bored again.
I LOVE THIS GAME. Thanks for finally thinking of people like me when designing your MMO, ANet. There are many happy people out there who feel exactly as i do too.
I totally agree with the OP and JesterJeff.
If you’re looking for a WoW/Rift/SWTOR/SW/Tera successor, GW2 ain’t it. And I really hope they stay pure and never cave to people frustrated that it isn’t another WoW.
In addition to OP and JesterJeff, it seems a huge thing people just can’t seem to wrap their heads around is that the game is not built to grind in the same manner as a WoW-style game. For example: say you need mat X for whatever goal you have. Mob A in Zone drops mat X, so you sit in Zone forever grinding away killing Mob A. How boring. Why turn GW2 into that? But so many people are trying to do that by either playing GW2 like that, and/or complaining on the forums that they CAN’T play that way. It boggles my mind.
So many people complaining about how much karma they need and how hard it is to “grind” it in Orr. Then I go to Orr and see TONS of people sitting around waiting for DEs to spawn and then spending 5, 10, 20, + minutes running them over and over and waiting, waiting, waiting until the next cycle comes back around. When if they though outside the WoW-box, they’d realize that they could go do ANY DE in ANY zone and get karma – sure not 350, but 250 and spend 2 minutes doing the DE vs/ the 20 minutes they sit and wait around in Orr for the next cycle to come around.
I’m sitting on 110,00 karma and barely hung out in Orr. It’s not hard to get karma. I’ll have another 100k in a few days. And I hang out in ALL the zones – depending on how I’m feeling at the moment.
I have to say I agree with the OP completely. In fact, I was trying to find an articulate way of saying this myself, so thank you for saying it for me.:)
This game is about playing the content. I LOVED Rift- until I realized that I would have to “hurry up” and get past the game to have any fun with those who either have the time or wish to blow through content to get to “the fun”.
I honestly think that the lack of a sub really frees the devs to make the game “fun centirc”, or the way they envisioned it. They don’t need to keep you playing! I know it is hard to grasp, but they don’t. They have already made a boatload of money and will continue to because, for a lot of us, the experience of playing IS the reward.. Basically, if you don’t like it, you are free to go. Try it out in six months or so. Might be more fun for ya. Might not. It does not matter. NO PRESSURE on us….NO PRESSURE on them.
If you like to “smell the roses”- like me- then this is the game for you. If you scoff at that, go play something else. Then, come back when an expansion come sout, and play it for two weeks before you get bored again.
I LOVE THIS GAME. Thanks for finally thinking of people like me when designing your MMO, ANet. There are many happy people out there who feel exactly as i do too.I totally agree with the OP and JesterJeff.
If you’re looking for a WoW/Rift/SWTOR/SW/Tera successor, GW2 ain’t it. And I really hope they stay pure and never cave to people frustrated that it isn’t another WoW.
In addition to OP and JesterJeff, it seems a huge thing people just can’t seem to wrap their heads around is that the game is not built to grind in the same manner as a WoW-style game. For example: say you need mat X for whatever goal you have. Mob A in Zone drops mat X, so you sit in Zone forever grinding away killing Mob A. How boring. Why turn GW2 into that? But so many people are trying to do that by either playing GW2 like that, and/or complaining on the forums that they CAN’T play that way. It boggles my mind.
So many people complaining about how much karma they need and how hard it is to “grind” it in Orr. Then I go to Orr and see TONS of people sitting around waiting for DEs to spawn and then spending 5, 10, 20, + minutes running them over and over and waiting, waiting, waiting until the next cycle comes back around. When if they though outside the WoW-box, they’d realize that they could go do ANY DE in ANY zone and get karma – sure not 350, but 250 and spend 2 minutes doing the DE vs/ the 20 minutes they sit and wait around in Orr for the next cycle to come around.
I’m sitting on 110,00 karma and barely hung out in Orr. It’s not hard to get karma. I’ll have another 100k in a few days. And I hang out in ALL the zones – depending on how I’m feeling at the moment.
Of course, you shouldn’t be able to make money by standing in one spot and farming a certain crafting material. The only acceptable way of making money is by botting and hack-jumping to nodes across the map. I’m sorry if my inability of coping with the fact that I get punished for not being a hacker bothers you.
You know what the game feels like right now? A game made to discourage grinding and farming but which, at the last moment, had insane amounts of grinding added to it (the most common example: cultural and dungeon armors cost increasing tenfold since beta). They themselves were saying that every 1-2 dungeon runs you’d get a piece of armor. What changed?
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
“Out of curiosity, are you even level 80? Because if you’re not, you can’t possibly know how fun it is playing at that level. "
Nope. Not even close to 80. 5 characters in the late teens and early 20’s with over 160 hours played. And, I can switch that around too. You can’t possibly know how much fun it will be for me at 80 either. You can’t tell me how and what I will be bored with. Honestly, I already know how it will be at 80- exactly how it is now. I won’t magically get to that point and then have the game turn into something completely different that I know I won’t like. In other MMO’s, I dreaded getting to “end game”, because I knew it would be something I did not enjoy(Raiding). You see, for me(And I would assume a lot of others) getting to 80 doesn’t matter! No one is telling me to hurry up because they can all come hang out with me if they want to- and actually benefit from it! I do not expect, or WANT, the experience to change because I magically hit some wall. At the rate I am going, I will have fresh content available for me for MONTHS. I think I am the type of player they made this game for. If you are not, then that sucks, but it does not mean the game will fail or die out. Guild Wars 2 is already an undeniable financial success.- unless over 120 million in sales so far is not a success- , and they have said they will add content, so people can come back and play lower level stuff for new DE’s and such.
“Out of curiosity, are you even level 80? Because if you’re not, you can’t possibly know how fun it is playing at that level. "
Nope. Not even close to 80. 5 characters in the late teens and early 20’s with over 160 hours played.
That’s what I wanted to know. The fact that you’re not even close to being level 80 gives you no right to dispute my concerns about that part of the game. When you’ve hit level 80 and spent some dozen hours playing at that level you can come back and bring arguments as to why it should stay that way. Until then, have fun!
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
“Out of curiosity, are you even level 80? Because if you’re not, you can’t possibly know how fun it is playing at that level. "
Nope. Not even close to 80. 5 characters in the late teens and early 20’s with over 160 hours played.That’s what I wanted to know. The fact that you’re not even close to being level 80 gives you no right to dispute my concerns about that part of the game. When you’ve hit level 80 and spent some dozen hours playing at that level you can come back and bring arguments as to why it should stay that way. Until then, have fun!
Hey. You replied to MY post. I did not “refute” anything you specifically said , so relax. In fact, the need to ask what level I am when the vast majority of content types are available from level 2(Ok, dungeons are level 40ish) is telling in itself.
You have fun too!
Sigh….when will people stop trying to define FUN for others? fun is something very SUBJECTIVE. What is fun for you might not be the same for others.
Most of the posts here smell like ‘If you are not playing my way, you are not having fun’. And yes it stinks.
Anet rewards you for almost everything with loot. Items and gear drop everywhere like someone busted open a pinata. So yes it is Anet encouraging players to go for rewards and that is how MMOS work.
The whole OP is misleading at its best.
It’s modern day culture partially.
Cosmetic materialism dictates the lives of many. Without this dopamine rush many feel unmotivated and saddened by their experience.
“Fun” just doesn’t cut it for some people. They’ve lost touch with that side of their young life with regards to gaming. You can blame certain games for this and the way society is as a whole with regards to how people feel.
Can you be any more obnoxious? this is a freaking video game..a business run by Anet to maximize profit and you don’t sell millions of boxes till you reward your player base in material value. Every MMO needs an incentive, a hook for the players. It is a MMORPG…which has always been about character progressions, acquiring shiny items and loot. You make it sound as if this is some new concept.
And who are you any ways to define how people enjoy their games?
Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.
(edited by Mickey.4207)
The “need” for grinding is something created inside people’s heads. It’s created by the desire to have a reward now, or sooner, rather than in due course. GW2, by contrast, is designed for these rewards to come in due course — from map completion and casually playing the game over a longer term, not by laser-beaming a reward in a few days or a week by farming/grinding it. The problem lies in the MMO player community, which is now very Skinnerish and is mostly focused on finding the most efficient way to “karma/hr”, “gold/hr”, “xp/hr”. This is the kind of radical achiever mentality that has been fostered by the design of games like WoW, unfortunately. GW2 is trying to break that mold, but the Skinner conditioning is very resistant and very strident in its resistance to the idea of playing more casually and for fun like a SP game.
Sigh….when will people stop trying to define FUN for others? fun is something very SUBJECTIVE. What is fun for you might not be the same for others.
Most of the posts here smell like ‘If you are not playing my way, you are not having fun’. And yes it stinks.
I am certainly not doing that. I just think this game was made for a different audience than most Warcraft-like MMO’s, and to me, it is very refreshing. I consider Rift to be a fantastic MMO, but the style just didn’t fit with me. In fact, I am very excited to find an MMO that actually does cater to someone like me. EUREKA!
I just want ANet to know there are those who really appreciate their philosophy and their game.. (HINT- don’t change it!)
Hey. You replied to MY post. I did not “refute” anything you specifically said , so relax. In fact, the need to ask what level I am when the vast majority of content types are available from level 2(Ok, dungeons are level 40ish) is telling in itself.
You have fun too!
No, it’s not telling at all. By only playing up to level 20 you have no way to find out in-game (because you could check the wiki) about what karma event rewards are compared to karma armor cost, about what the gold earn-to-spend ratio is, about how much dungeon tokens you earn compared to what the armor costs and so forth.
Do you know how much level 80 Orr events it takes to get a SINGLE karma armor piece? 111, not taking into account boosts.
Do you know how many dungeon runs does it take to get a dungeon armor full set? 30-40.
Do you know how much dying once costs at level 80? Roughly 3 silver and 50 copper, considering waypoint travel cost and repair. Do you know how much a dynamic event at that level gives you? 1 silver and 80 copper. What about a renown heart? Roughly 3 silver. Oh, so if you die once you spend more than you earned from completing a heart? Yep.
All these are grinds, grinds they promised wouldn’t exist. These problems only start appearing around levels 50-60. That’s why your level is relevant to the discussion.
So, if you tell me that after doing 666 dynamic events in Cursed Shore in order to get a full karma set you’d still do the same events again, then I’ll say this is the game for you.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
Sigh….when will people stop trying to define FUN for others? fun is something very SUBJECTIVE. What is fun for you might not be the same for others.
Most of the posts here smell like ‘If you are not playing my way, you are not having fun’. And yes it stinks.
I am certainly not doing that. I just think this game was made for a different audience than most Warcraft-like MMO’s, and to me, it is very refreshing. I consider Rift to be a fantastic MMO, but the style just didn’t fit with me. In fact, I am very excited to find an MMO that actually does cater to someone like me. EUREKA!
I just want ANet to know there are those who really appreciate their philosophy and their game.. (HINT- don’t change it!)
This MMO is not some niche title where you can claim it was made for certain audience or different kind of audience. Now if you talk about games like EVE Online i would understand. your above statement.
GW2 was made for masses. That is not some speculation it is a fact stated by Mike O Brian himself. He clearly said that he wants to beat WOW and become number one in sales.
Are you telling me he can beat WOW by catering to different kind of players? when you go for mass appeal you want everyone to play your MMO. Different or not.
Just compare GW2 to GW1 and see how simplistic it is in so many ways.
But the point remains. GW2 is about rewards, the game design speaks for itself. If it wasn’t, Anet wouldn’t even care giving you reward for 100% map completion (just an example).
They could have simple flashed a message on your screen in bold letters ‘you reward is FUN’.
Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before.
Thank you OP! We share the same love of fun. Me and my friends feel the exact same way you do.
Eventually the people who dislike this games philosophy will filter out. This same thing happened in gw1, people moaned for a few months then us serious players got down to business. Many players played gw1 for years and that game wasn’t even half of this game.
Thank you OP! We share the same love of fun. Me and my friends feel the exact same way you do.
Eventually the people who dislike this games philosophy will filter out. This same thing happened in gw1, people moaned for a few months then us serious players got down to business. Many players played gw1 for years and that game wasn’t even half of this game.
Well said. I’m having a great time so far, and when it finally stops being fun, I’ll just find something else to do.
I agree that rewards aren’t necessary for fun. However between WvW and Orr …. “endgame” has not been fun for me. Levelling sure. But there’s nothing fun about max level so far. >.<
Still looking for something enjoyable, though. There’s a handful more options to sift through. Failing that there’s no monthly fee and the levelling experience was worth $60. So whatever I guess.
Well…I did wrote that in my topic, but I think its perfectly ok here too:
You are talking about fun, because Arenanet sais that this is fun. This is grind, and they have the same REWARD system as other mmos. NOT FUN SYSTEM. If that would be about fun, you could get these item skins with NORMAL effort which would be STILL FUN.
Currently : Play more → Get awesome skins → Grind mats → Get awesome legendary skins.
Play more → Grind DE’s → Get mats or Skin.
Welcome to the SAME rewarding system which is in every korean mmo. Feel free to deny it.
Fun system would be:
Do events ? Realise that you can get new skins! Yay!
Do dungeons ? Get 1 armor piece / run. Get new skin after 6 run. Need effort? Yeah! Can be fun? Yeah!
This is the system you are talking about. Where you dont have to grind, you are not forced to play 24/7 , . You are just going with the flow…
If you want to defend this game? Feel free to do it. Will it change the fact that currently this is just a grind+time rewarding system? No it wont.
Listen carefully: all games are about the rewards. If there is no “win” scenario there is no fun.
I think, then, what we need is a new category: Massively Multi-user Online Role Playing World.
I think that what you said is a really pertinent point; for many of us, MMORPG’s were never so much “games” that you won, beat, or lost; they were alternate worlds to experience. The “game” part was more side-content, like a big “mini-game” to spice up the alternate world experience.
However, the past decade the MMORPG industry has been run by those who are more “gamers” than “world experiencers”, and so the industry has turned into mostly-games with some “alternate world” content – but the driving force of content, updates and structure has been for the game-player, not really so much for the “world-experiencer”.
When I get together with friends and family, most of the fun I experience has nothing to do with winning or losing any game we might play, but rather the total experience. Winning or losing a game is just side content.
I and many others see the advancement/progression/gear system in GW2 as side content, not the main focus as we adventure through Tyria. It seems ANET sees the game – to some extent – this same way, as a world people can experience together, and less of an endless “game” for people to “beat”; you can see it in the deep, broad way they’ve filled Tyria with stuff to experience that really has nothing to do with anything “competitive”, and have limited the progression/“winning” capacity.
I just hope they don’t lose sight of this and start focusing too much on the “gamers” who need the carrot to have a good time. Since they burn through content the fastest, they are often the ones to start complaining early and often about “lack of content”, as if character/gear progression mechanics was the only content available in the world of Tyria.
ANET: Don’t lose sight of who your long-term, cash-shop customers will likely be. We’re the ones that will buy all kinds of non-progression oriented items and ultimately be the most profitable for you.
(edited by Wintyre Fraust.6534)
“i dont care about rewards
but combat isnt fun
it is mindless grinding one event/dungeon after another which are all the same all the time, because there is no teamplay/tactics whatsoever
so what do u mean with fun-centric?”
THISS
Also, to the people saying you don’t enjoy grinding if you don’t like the low rewards currently present, no one enjoys ridiculous grinds, they want the grind to be paced correctly, there is an art to making grind enjoyable, and atm its far too unrewarding.
You know there’s a problem when there’s more grind to get a dungeon armor in GW2 than in WoW.
“i dont care about rewards
but combat isnt fun
it is mindless grinding one event/dungeon after another which are all the same all the time, because there is no teamplay/tactics whatsoever
so what do u mean with fun-centric?”THISS
Also, to the people saying you don’t enjoy grinding if you don’t like the low rewards currently present, no one enjoys ridiculous grinds, they want the grind to be paced correctly, there is an art to making grind enjoyable, and atm its far too unrewarding.
You know there’s a problem when there’s more grind to get a dungeon armor in GW2 than in WoW.
WoW is totally different in that it is organized around endless gear progression in tiers. That isn’t the case here. These sets aren’t the equivalent of “dungeon armor” — they are the prestige armor sets in the game in terms of appearance. Acquiring a set with the same stats is very easy, doesn’t require a grind, and can easily be crafted or simply purchased on the TP. It’s a different setup from WoW entirely.
“i dont care about rewards
but combat isnt fun
it is mindless grinding one event/dungeon after another which are all the same all the time, because there is no teamplay/tactics whatsoever
so what do u mean with fun-centric?”THISS
Also, to the people saying you don’t enjoy grinding if you don’t like the low rewards currently present, no one enjoys ridiculous grinds, they want the grind to be paced correctly, there is an art to making grind enjoyable, and atm its far too unrewarding.
You know there’s a problem when there’s more grind to get a dungeon armor in GW2 than in WoW.
WoW is totally different in that it is organized around endless gear progression in tiers. That isn’t the case here. These sets aren’t the equivalent of “dungeon armor” — they are the prestige armor sets in the game in terms of appearance. Acquiring a set with the same stats is very easy, doesn’t require a grind, and can easily be crafted or simply purchased on the TP. It’s a different setup from WoW entirely.
Actually getting exotic gear requires quite a bit of grind. Heck getting to lvl 80 requires 80+ hours of “grind”. Grind aint goin away as its in the game AT LAUNCH. Expect more.
I just want to point out, if you’re not level 80, just please, don’t contribute your opinion. Yes we all get it the leveling up process is fun, because you’re not doing the same thing over and over.
When you’re at 80 though, there’s nothing but repeatable content, and there’s a lot of grind for not a lot of reward.
If you like the cosmetics of a set, you have to convince 4 other people who DON’T like the cosmetics of the set to come through THE SAME EXPLORABLE DUNGEON OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.
Currently unless all 5 people like the skin, they won’t want to do the dungeon more than once or twice. It’s not worth their time.
People under level 80 just have no comprehension of that apparently.
it’s a simple fact: “Fun” fades with repetition.
Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer
Hey. You replied to MY post. I did not “refute” anything you specifically said , so relax. In fact, the need to ask what level I am when the vast majority of content types are available from level 2(Ok, dungeons are level 40ish) is telling in itself.
You have fun too!No, it’s not telling at all. By only playing up to level 20 you have no way to find out in-game (because you could check the wiki) about what karma event rewards are compared to karma armor cost, about what the gold earn-to-spend ratio is, about how much dungeon tokens you earn compared to what the armor costs and so forth.
Do you know how much level 80 Orr events it takes to get a SINGLE karma armor piece? 111, not taking into account boosts.
Do you know how many dungeon runs does it take to get a dungeon armor full set? 30-40.
Do you know how much dying once costs at level 80? Roughly 3 silver and 50 copper, considering waypoint travel cost and repair. Do you know how much a dynamic event at that level gives you? 1 silver and 80 copper. What about a renown heart? Roughly 3 silver. Oh, so if you die once you spend more than you earned from completing a heart? Yep.
All these are grinds, grinds they promised wouldn’t exist. These problems only start appearing around levels 50-60. That’s why your level is relevant to the discussion.
So, if you tell me that after doing 666 dynamic events in Cursed Shore in order to get a full karma set you’d still do the same events again, then I’ll say this is the game for you.
Quoted for truth.
User was infracted for being awesome.
There’s something off with OP’s argument right off the bat.
I’m going to define “reward” as “something that has functional use in the game”; i.e., non-cosmetic rewards like gold, resources, karma, gear, etc.
I’m sorry that I have to break it for you, but this is denialism. Reality check: the reason why people grind for cosmetic gears is because that the gears look good, and people want to wear them to look good. The central controversy about grinding and rewards is that people perceive items that cost tons of gold and karma to make, with no statistical advantage than their easier obtainable counterparts, as a valid and important reward.
a shard of crystal in the desert.
Games are payoff reward systems. The amount of spacing you have in between rewards controls how much fun people have over time. If you throw too much at people, it gets overwhelming and ridiculous. If you withhold content and tell people to repeat things for hours at a time to get something new, it stops being fun.
I think the people saying that you shouldn’t be playing for rewards are probably either delusional fanboys or just haven’t played the game enough. “You can do dungeons, you can go back to old zones, etc” Yes, we’ve all heard that. And we’ve all done that. Multiple times. It stops being fun after a while if there is no payout. There has to be incremental systems of rewards in any game, or you just end up repeating the same experience over and over again. If you don’t understand why people would tire of this and move on to other experiences (other games), then there is no hope for you at all, and you are most likely a fanboy who learned to parrot ANet’s marketing points before release, but doesn’t actually understand any of them.
I’m not having fun BECAUSE I’m not getting many rewards. My fun in a game usually comes from a sense of accomplishment, whether that be killing a hard boss, or getting good loot, or getting a level-up and an awesome skill, or finally getting the materials to craft an epic item.
Hard boss fights don’t exist in this game. They’re either mind numbing “press 1 and occasionally dodge roll” or ridiculous “this boss one shots you with everything, time to spend all your money on repairs and still kill him despite dying 70 times in one fight”, so that’s out the window.
Good loot is ridiculously hard to find, and more often than not any decent items I find are ones that I can’t use so they either go on the TP or get salvaged. With no static loot tables for bosses, they aren’t a reliable way to get loot.
I’m level 80 already and skills aren’t based on levelups. I had every non-slot skill unlocked by level 15, and the slot skills are just boring.
Getting crafting materials is hard because there’s no reliable way to get gold for me. I have no desire to mindlessly kill mobs for 25-50 silver an hour (which, if I’ve heard correctly, gets reduced if you do it too long because of anti-botting crap), to get the 6 gold I need for my armor set.
I just wish there was something truly satisfying for me in this game. At the moment, there’s nothing, and I can’t find motivation to play despite the fact that I really, really want to.
If you’re not having fun, stop playing. That’s a pretty simple decision. Making the prestige armor looks from dungeons obtainable with 3-4 dungeon runs won’t make you play any longer, that’s for certain.
My main is level 80. I had my exotic set shortly thereafter from the TP, because I had in the low 20s in gold at the time (I don’t understand how people have 2g when they reach 80, I really don’t ) from simply playing the game, not playing the market. I haven’t been running dungeons to grind tokens for a certain look. I’ve run a few here and there, but dungeon running has never really been my thing so … I don’t do it. Wow, that’s a hard choice. I also don’t play as much as I did when I was leveling my main, which I also expected and am fine with — I do still play, however, and enjoy my time in the game. If I didn’t, I’d just stop playing for a while altogether.
NEWSFLASH!
GW2 has a power plateau! its easy to get to. This was advertised many many many many times before release. Either get used to it or get out. It will not change, and us GW2 players do not want it to change. This game is different from most other games, its kinda why we like it.
If you’re not having fun, stop playing. That’s a pretty simple decision. Making the prestige armor looks from dungeons obtainable with 3-4 dungeon runs won’t make you play any longer, that’s for certain.
You are wrong. Actually it makes us play longer because we will see the point to go and clear the dungeon.
You are defending this game pretty much brainlessly.
I play fun is a stupid argument and you should feel bad.
If you’re not having fun, stop playing. That’s a pretty simple decision. Making the prestige armor looks from dungeons obtainable with 3-4 dungeon runs won’t make you play any longer, that’s for certain.
You are wrong. Actually it makes us play longer because we will see the point to go and clear the dungeon.
You are defending this game pretty much brainlessly.
If it takes you four dungeon runs, you have the set in an evening. How does that make you play more? You’re done in one day. Nothing at all to chase. The same posters would be in these forums complaining that they have nothing to do.
TLDR
Most games offer good rewards because they are a good part of FUN.
If you find repeating mindless dungeons, or having nothing to do fun then more power to you.
“if your not having fun, stop playing” WHOA such amazing advice from apologists. This is a persistant MMO. I’m glad you people don’t run companies, businesses or anything.
Really really bad.
IF people want to complain on the forusm let them, if your having fun why are you even here getting butthurt about people complaining and wasting your time coming up with terrible advice like this.