Guild Wars 2

pricer.5091:

There is nothing “legendary” about the process of getting one, perhaps if they were for actual game accomplishments with a higher level of difficulty than the average gamer was able to complete…maybe they might be termed “legendary”.

I think they should have both options. Either as it is, boring and grindy, and an option to get a legendary by doing something that the average person cannot do, unless they at least try. Having them exclusive to very hard content isn’t better either, they should be available to anyone

Before Ascended Gear, Legendaries were an optional cosmetic grind.

Since then, Legendaries are where the “max stats” will reside. It’s been said, it’s been proven (via accidental early update), and it is fact.

And yet still so many people are claiming that Legendaries are just optional cosmetic fluff. That used to be true, but it isn’t anymore.

Time Glitch.2460:

Conncept.7638:

What you are saying ‘Oh I can do it, when I want to’ is a lie, you can’t, I can’t, no casual player can.

Do you actually have anything to back that up, or are you simply being defeatist and negative for the sake of it?

Here’s how I see it: There are three kinds of players in regards to Legendary progress:

1. The people who got it right. These are people who got their legendaries in the first month, and they obviously did this legitimately without buying anything, because how could you? Recipes were just being discovered! They got these legitimately by playing the game. kitten if I know how they did it, but they managed to do it, so it’s obviously possible.

2. The people who don’t really care (people like me, and many other casual players), who will get it as they get it. Maybe that’ll be years, maybe it’ll be months. We don’t really care. We’re going to play the game, and if we get it, we get it. If not, meh, whatever we’re having fun!

3. Then there’s the jealous ones. The people who are so fed up that other people have Legendaries and they don’t, they’re totally determined to ruin their gaming experience to “grind it out”. They do things like make new characters in WvW just to “easily” get the badges they need, or endlessly run dungeons and do resource node rotations just for the sake of “GOTTA GET MY LEGENDARY GRR RRAAA”.

Except that isn’t the way the game is deisgned to be played, so naturally they’re going to run into stuff like Diminishing Returns and general boredom. They then go on the forums and kitten that the game “is a grind” and “it’s impossible to get a Legendary!” when all of their problems and woes with the game have been self-inflicted. They can’t accept that they clearly are doing something wrong, other people are doing something right, and their destructive determination to cheat the system and kitten out a Legendary as fast as possible isn’t working.

The replies in this very thread are evidence of this.

“I can’t get my Legendary! I FARMED for these stones and I didn’t get enough of them!!!!”

“Getting a Legendary is impossible! My GRIND routine isn’t even close to efficient enough!”

“How are you supposed to GRIND and get as much gold as you need?!?! Inflation! I can’t get thousands of gold!!!!”

Then how about you STOP farming, STOP grinding, DON’T worry about gold, and just play the kitten game for fun. Once again, if you aren’t having fun, simply don’t play the game and go do something else. Wait for new content. Pick up a book. Idgaf, but if you are not having fun, do not play the game.

Simple as that.

Don’t jump in the middle of the conversation and demand answers without reading the thread. I already stated in an earlier post that I know this because I tried to get a rare crafted weapon, and it proved to be mathematically impossible, I did the calculations. If the drop-rate I was getting the mats stayed constant, it would take me 3.4 years to get the mats for the item I wanted. And I even earned up the money to buy the weapon, too bad that in the time it took me the weapon had doubled in price, and has since more than doubled again.

It isn’t possible when for every 1 gold I earn, inflation rises by 2.

GW2 isnt a grinder.

you can unlock an play 100% of the content without grinding and be as good as anybody else in wvwvw.

grind is for cosmetics or increased difficulty (fotm) only.

people who grind do it because they want to.
people who complain about the grind… i better not say my opinion ill get infracted.

The term grind has both a dictionary definition and a subjective player definition. People that say there is no grind in a given MMO they play are really saying that nothing they’ve done on the game to date feels like a grind. Some people could kill 5 million risen in a single stretch and think it fun while other players would feel like tearing their eyes out after the 500th one.

It doesn’t mean that the “no grind” player’s opinion is more valid than one who has, in fact, encountered grind in a given game. It also doesn’t mean that said player will never at some point in the future experience grind. They might not, but then they might. At the end of the day, “grind” as its used by most players in most forums is purely a matter of opinion and individual experience since what feels like fun to one player might feel like a grind to another and both points of view are valid.

Excuse me for just assuming that this translates into another
“X game made X years ago was grindier than this, and thus this isn’t a grinder” thread
Which in itself is insanely flawed logic.

Developmental evolution doesn’t exist apparently…

until there is a precise definition to grind… its hard to judge.

imo “grind” is as soon as you start repeating content.
and i find that gw2 as almost no forced repeat content.
maybe dungeons a little bit, and even then.
you can go 99% max stat and see 100% of the content without repeating anything not even once.
if you keep playing pve after having seen 100% its because you choose to grind. then i think you souldnt complain.

Celtic Lady.3729:

The term grind has both a dictionary definition and a subjective player definition. People that say there is no grind in a given MMO they play are really saying that nothing they’ve done on the game to date feels like a grind. Some people could kill 5 million risen in a single stretch and think it fun while other players would feel like tearing their eyes out after the 500th one.

It doesn’t mean that the “no grind” player’s opinion is more valid than one who has, in fact, encountered grind in a given game. It also doesn’t mean that said player will never at some point in the future experience grind. They might not, but then they might. At the end of the day, “grind” as its used by most players in most forums is purely a matter of opinion and individual experience since what feels like fun to one player might feel like a grind to another and both points of view are valid.

Well said.

Perhaps we should be focusing on these, instead:

Does GW2 use the mechanic of grind to artificially increase play time? (ie, vertical progression)
Would it be possible to use some other mechanic to do that instead? (ie, cosmetic options / horizontal progression in the form of sidegrades and/or rare skills?)
Does play time directly correlate to money spent? (ie, do those who play the most hours spend the most money?)

Hellkaiser.6025:

Excuse me for just assuming that this translates into another
“X game made X years ago was grindier than this, and thus this isn’t a grinder” thread
Which in itself is insanely flawed logic.

Developmental evolution doesn’t exist apparently…

200 years ago doctors used leeches to “clean the blood”

therefore

anybody who gets HIV from a tainted blood infusion should just be happy they even GOT a blood infusion

Sky.9347:

Before Ascended Gear, Legendaries were an optional cosmetic grind.

Since then, Legendaries are where the “max stats” will reside. It’s been said, it’s been proven (via accidental early update), and it is fact.

And yet still so many people are claiming that Legendaries are just optional cosmetic fluff. That used to be true, but it isn’t anymore.

Actually it still will be true, as the developers have already said that Legendaries will always be top tier. Therefore, if they introduce ascended quality weapons as you seem to be implying (and I think they will too)…then Legendaries will simply be upgraded to match the stats of the ascended weapons.

So what is now simply Exotic stats in a fancy skin will just be Ascended stats in a fancy skin.

And in fact theres a high chance that if the (future) ascended level weapons are obtained through the same mechanism as ascended backpacks and rings (ie. grinding) then a lot of people will cry foulplay if people who have legendaries get them upgraded without having to obtain the ascended item.

C’est la vie.

Personally I don’t care because with the exception of maybe Incinerator and the greatswords I think they all suck looks-wise anyway.

pricer.5091:

Sky.9347:

Before Ascended Gear, Legendaries were an optional cosmetic grind.

Since then, Legendaries are where the “max stats” will reside. It’s been said, it’s been proven (via accidental early update), and it is fact.

And yet still so many people are claiming that Legendaries are just optional cosmetic fluff. That used to be true, but it isn’t anymore.

Actually it still will be true, as the developers have already said that Legendaries will always be top tier. Therefore, if they introduce ascended quality weapons as you seem to be implying (and I think they will too)…then Legendaries will simply be upgraded to match the stats of the ascended weapons.

So what is now simply Exotic stats in a fancy skin will just be Ascended stats in a fancy skin.

And in fact theres a high chance that if the (future) ascended level weapons are obtained through the same mechanism as ascended backpacks and rings (ie. grinding) then a lot of people will cry foulplay if people who have legendaries get them upgraded without having to obtain the ascended item.

C’est la vie.

Personally I don’t care because with the exception of maybe Incinerator and the greatswords I think they all suck looks-wise anyway.

Yes, it’s possible that Ascended weapons will just be a smaller-grind version of Legendaries.

Until the next tier of Infusion, at least.

But if adding grind wasn’t the goal, why add Ascended gear at all? Their stated purpose was to give people something to force them to continue playing.

If you remove the grind, they cease to fulfill that purpose.

Sky.9347:

Hellkaiser.6025:

Excuse me for just assuming that this translates into another
“X game made X years ago was grindier than this, and thus this isn’t a grinder” thread
Which in itself is insanely flawed logic.

Developmental evolution doesn’t exist apparently…

200 years ago doctors used leeches to “clean the blood”

therefore

anybody who gets HIV from a tainted blood infusion should just be happy they even GOT a blood infusion

Quite a morbid analogy to draw, but yeah it’s as if people don’t realize that standards change and people put up with less kinks and bugs in systems the longer they’re refined.
GW2 seems to have fixed one aspect that was slightly flawed, only to then fall victim to a ton of other HORRENDOUS design flaws…

Random chance boxes in the Cash Shop?

Magic Find?

Who on EARTH gave them the impression these were good ideas, cos honestly I rarely meet anyone who claims they are.

Sky.9347:

Before Ascended Gear, Legendaries were an optional cosmetic grind.

Since then, Legendaries are where the “max stats” will reside. It’s been said, it’s been proven (via accidental early update), and it is fact.

And yet still so many people are claiming that Legendaries are just optional cosmetic fluff. That used to be true, but it isn’t anymore.

yeah because acended wepons duh…..

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Sky.9347:

Before Ascended Gear, Legendaries were an optional cosmetic grind.

Since then, Legendaries are where the “max stats” will reside. It’s been said, it’s been proven (via accidental early update), and it is fact.

And yet still so many people are claiming that Legendaries are just optional cosmetic fluff. That used to be true, but it isn’t anymore.

yeah because acended wepons duh…..

ascended

Gear will increase with each expansion will it not? so they will always become more powerful and remain at top tier?

I believe this is the point they were making…

It’s my understanding that if there ever are ascended weapons (there are none as yet), legendary weapon stats will be made equal to or better than ascended stats. Is this not correct or is there some other reason legendary weapon owners will resent ascended ones?

Hellkaiser.6025:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Sky.9347:

Before Ascended Gear, Legendaries were an optional cosmetic grind.

Since then, Legendaries are where the “max stats” will reside. It’s been said, it’s been proven (via accidental early update), and it is fact.

And yet still so many people are claiming that Legendaries are just optional cosmetic fluff. That used to be true, but it isn’t anymore.

yeah because acended wepons duh…..

ascended

Gear will increase with each expansion will it not? so they will always become more powerful and remain at top tier?

I believe this is the point they were making…

Yeah… either grind a LOT for Legendary stuff (including armor if they still release it) to stay at the top of the food chain…

or

Grind a little less each time a new tier (of infusions, and whatever comes after that) is released.

How can you say there is no grind?

Avatar.1923:

until there is a precise definition to grind… its hard to judge.

There is a definition to grinding. The dictionary definition simply refers to repetition of any task, which GW2 does in spades.

The question should not be “is GW2 grindy?” (because it is), the real question is “how long can I grind GW2 before it feels like a grind to me?”, and that question depends on the person. For me, I’ve certainly played more grindy games than GW2, but I’m also not about to fool myself into thinking there’s no grind at all in this supposedly “zero grind” game.

Time Glitch.2460:

I’m a casual player who hit level 80 a week ago.

I’d like to know how many hours you’ve logged, please.

I ask because people have a tendency to call themselves “casual” players for the sake of making a point about how the game is totally casual-friendly, and yet these people still manage 4-5 hours a day….which is not actually “casual” play of a game. That’s a part-time job.

Sky.9347:

Hellkaiser.6025:

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Sky.9347:

Before Ascended Gear, Legendaries were an optional cosmetic grind.

Since then, Legendaries are where the “max stats” will reside. It’s been said, it’s been proven (via accidental early update), and it is fact.

And yet still so many people are claiming that Legendaries are just optional cosmetic fluff. That used to be true, but it isn’t anymore.

yeah because acended wepons duh…..

ascended

Gear will increase with each expansion will it not? so they will always become more powerful and remain at top tier?

I believe this is the point they were making…

Yeah… either grind a LOT for Legendary stuff (including armor if they still release it) to stay at the top of the food chain…

or

Grind a little less each time a new tier (of infusions, and whatever comes after that) is released.

How can you say there is no grind?

Was afraid I was misreading your post also, but I’m not in the boat to say grind is all evil REALLY. It’s more the grind paradigm I take offense to.

It’s unrewarding, it is a horrid chore, and I came from another big MMO to AVOID all this kind of rubbish, only to be planted slap bang into a game which for the most part is over before it began for me. That’s just subjective opinion tagged on there but yeah I’ve still to see particularly strong defenses for the issues raised aside from “take it or leave it” or “skill” in relation to MF… it’s all topsy turvy

You CAN kill the same monsters 2.000.000 times
You CAN do the same dungeon 568 times
You CAN take 8 alts to lvl 80, do map completion, get max stats, do all achievements etc
You CAN grind for lengendaries

But why should you?

This kind of grind is made for two kinds of people
1) the “hardcore” (i.e. people who don’t have a life) who wants to be “someone” ingame, you know, be the “first” and make videos of the gear
2) casual players who just randomely get stof done as they play the game (for fun, I hope), maybe within a year or two.

But it will never take anything away from the game if you choose not to do these things. Move on.

I will never understand why a rational human being would ever waste time, “working” for a lengendary. But of cause, thats just me.

The relevant question is whether players think that the actual content is fun to play. If not… then play another game. Thats it.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Jovel.5706:

Guild Wars 2 is only grindy for the people who feel entitled to a Legendary weapon. Now we have all these babies. I mean, getting exotic armor and weapons from dungeons isn’t a grind.

Again, my experience with grind (and many other players’) has nothing to do with legendaries, exotic gear, ascended gear, or dungeons.

Care to share, then?

Sylv.5324:

Care to share, then?

I already did. Please read the above posts.

I don’t grind. I just buy gems and exchange them for gold 8 gold does me wonders

GW2 is the least grindy mmo I’ve ever played easily, and I’ve played a lot.

I just leveled 3 alts from 1 to 71 in less than 2 weeks. If it had just been 1 character, it would’ve been 80 much sooner. Leveling isn’t where the grind is.

killcannon.2576:

Because guilds would never get together to make a legendary, and then sell it for the guild.

Sell it to get what for the guild? Money that they need to buy perks? Money that they need to buy gear for one of the players in the guild?

By continuously working to get money by repeating the same activity over and over again aren’t the guild members grinding?

And even if you say that no they are not grinding because they are doing activities which taken alone are not grinding because each member is not repating the same actions to such an extent that each action has become mindless and repetitive, yet taken together the actions do constitute grinding. Because once they meet their first goal, what then? Presumeably they will have to move onto goal 2 which is basically the same as goal 1 except for it is either for a different perk of a different player. By having to do all those same actions a second time the actions will probably have become mindless and repetitive since they are the exact same actions as everyone took the first time being completed in the exact same way and will thus be considered mindless and repetitive.

I realize that you tried to define grinding as a flexible unit of time and not mindless repeitition however your definition of grinding simply does not make sense as grinding was never the measure of time over which repetition occured, rather it was a measure of the enjoyment derived from repeating the same activity/ies over a period of time and not the measure of time itself.

And to be frank I feel that nothing is worse than grinding simply to get an item for someone else because then you no longer get to enjoy the fruits of your labor which only makes a grind an even larger waste of time. To be frank I’d rather be fishing than doing someone elses grinding for them, and I hate fishing.

Avatar.1923:

GW2 isnt a grinder.

you can unlock an play 100% of the content without grinding and be as good as anybody else in wvwvw.

grind is for cosmetics or increased difficulty (fotm) only.

people who grind do it because they want to.
people who complain about the grind… i better not say my opinion ill get infracted.

You most certainly cannot be as good as anyone in WvW. With the addition of Ascended you cannot be as good as everyone in WvW unless you do fractals. Currently, just to get the fractal back item you’re looking at 22 runs(at level 10). A fractal usually runs about an hour, sometimes more depending on the group/fractals. Then we get to rings, 10 runs for a guaranteed ring you want. Maybe you get lucky and get the ring(s) you want from the daily, but I think many are like me and are 0/18. So that’s 30+ hours EASILY of running the same fractals over and over again just to get the best in slot gear to be equal to those that use it for WvW. I don’t know what you call it, but I call that grinding.

Now lets get into the exotic grind and “being equal”. Say I want runes of divinity on my character. They are at least 8g a pop, 6*8= 48g just for the runes. Say you make 2g an hour, that’s 24 hours of grinding for runes. The gear itself is 3-4g and average of 14 pieces(1 offhand),42g-56g, 21-28 hours of grinding. Perhaps you want the karma armor instead, 42k at 386(iirc) karma per event, 109 events per piece of armor. Now we do have the daily karma jugs for 4,500, so if we farm 1 piece a day it’s 98 events we need to do. Even at 20 events an hour(1 event every 3 minutes) that’s 5 hours per piece and 30 hours for a set. Dunegons are the same as well, do 20+ runs of the same thing over and over to get your armor set.

This game has an incredible amount of grind. It’s ignorant to just say you can get exotics easy at level 80 for most casuals. The only cheap exotics have very bad stats so you’re not exactly equal to other players. Ascended have just pushed the grinding to another level and I’m sure the new laurel system will be exactly the same, complete 100 events for 1 laurel and 50 laurels for an item!

4x 80s
Lots of alts
Never ground grindedered
Not sure where you’re getting this.

Distaste.4801:

Avatar.1923:

GW2 isnt a grinder.

you can unlock an play 100% of the content without grinding and be as good as anybody else in wvwvw.

grind is for cosmetics or increased difficulty (fotm) only.

people who grind do it because they want to.
people who complain about the grind… i better not say my opinion ill get infracted.

You most certainly cannot be as good as anyone in WvW. With the addition of Ascended you cannot be as good as everyone in WvW unless you do fractals. Currently, just to get the fractal back item you’re looking at 22 runs(at level 10). A fractal usually runs about an hour, sometimes more depending on the group/fractals. Then we get to rings, 10 runs for a guaranteed ring you want. Maybe you get lucky and get the ring(s) you want from the daily, but I think many are like me and are 0/18. So that’s 30+ hours EASILY of running the same fractals over and over again just to get the best in slot gear to be equal to those that use it for WvW. I don’t know what you call it, but I call that grinding.

Now lets get into the exotic grind and “being equal”. Say I want runes of divinity on my character. They are at least 8g a pop, 6*8= 48g just for the runes. Say you make 2g an hour, that’s 24 hours of grinding for runes. The gear itself is 3-4g and average of 14 pieces(1 offhand),42g-56g, 21-28 hours of grinding. Perhaps you want the karma armor instead, 42k at 386(iirc) karma per event, 109 events per piece of armor. Now we do have the daily karma jugs for 4,500, so if we farm 1 piece a day it’s 98 events we need to do. Even at 20 events an hour(1 event every 3 minutes) that’s 5 hours per piece and 30 hours for a set. Dunegons are the same as well, do 20+ runs of the same thing over and over to get your armor set.

This game has an incredible amount of grind. It’s ignorant to just say you can get exotics easy at level 80 for most casuals. The only cheap exotics have very bad stats so you’re not exactly equal to other players. Ascended have just pushed the grinding to another level and I’m sure the new laurel system will be exactly the same, complete 100 events for 1 laurel and 50 laurels for an item!

I agree. What is annoying me is how they BROKE their manifesto so badly. Why bother even having that kind of manifesto? Your attracting the wrong player base. Have a wow styled manifesto then you’ll attrack the grinding player base.

Revolution.6301:

Distaste.4801:

Avatar.1923:

GW2 isnt a grinder.

you can unlock an play 100% of the content without grinding and be as good as anybody else in wvwvw.

grind is for cosmetics or increased difficulty (fotm) only.

people who grind do it because they want to.
people who complain about the grind… i better not say my opinion ill get infracted.

You most certainly cannot be as good as anyone in WvW. With the addition of Ascended you cannot be as good as everyone in WvW unless you do fractals. Currently, just to get the fractal back item you’re looking at 22 runs(at level 10). A fractal usually runs about an hour, sometimes more depending on the group/fractals. Then we get to rings, 10 runs for a guaranteed ring you want. Maybe you get lucky and get the ring(s) you want from the daily, but I think many are like me and are 0/18. So that’s 30+ hours EASILY of running the same fractals over and over again just to get the best in slot gear to be equal to those that use it for WvW. I don’t know what you call it, but I call that grinding.

Now lets get into the exotic grind and “being equal”. Say I want runes of divinity on my character. They are at least 8g a pop, 6*8= 48g just for the runes. Say you make 2g an hour, that’s 24 hours of grinding for runes. The gear itself is 3-4g and average of 14 pieces(1 offhand),42g-56g, 21-28 hours of grinding. Perhaps you want the karma armor instead, 42k at 386(iirc) karma per event, 109 events per piece of armor. Now we do have the daily karma jugs for 4,500, so if we farm 1 piece a day it’s 98 events we need to do. Even at 20 events an hour(1 event every 3 minutes) that’s 5 hours per piece and 30 hours for a set. Dunegons are the same as well, do 20+ runs of the same thing over and over to get your armor set.

This game has an incredible amount of grind. It’s ignorant to just say you can get exotics easy at level 80 for most casuals. The only cheap exotics have very bad stats so you’re not exactly equal to other players. Ascended have just pushed the grinding to another level and I’m sure the new laurel system will be exactly the same, complete 100 events for 1 laurel and 50 laurels for an item!

I agree. What is annoying me is how they BROKE their manifesto so badly. Why bother even having that kind of manifesto? Your attracting the wrong player base. Have a wow styled manifesto then you’ll attrack the grinding player base.

Or how about you actually do dungeons and EARN your gear.

Cappy.2786:

Revolution.6301:

Distaste.4801:

Avatar.1923:

GW2 isnt a grinder.

you can unlock an play 100% of the content without grinding and be as good as anybody else in wvwvw.

grind is for cosmetics or increased difficulty (fotm) only.

people who grind do it because they want to.
people who complain about the grind… i better not say my opinion ill get infracted.

You most certainly cannot be as good as anyone in WvW. With the addition of Ascended you cannot be as good as everyone in WvW unless you do fractals. Currently, just to get the fractal back item you’re looking at 22 runs(at level 10). A fractal usually runs about an hour, sometimes more depending on the group/fractals. Then we get to rings, 10 runs for a guaranteed ring you want. Maybe you get lucky and get the ring(s) you want from the daily, but I think many are like me and are 0/18. So that’s 30+ hours EASILY of running the same fractals over and over again just to get the best in slot gear to be equal to those that use it for WvW. I don’t know what you call it, but I call that grinding.

Now lets get into the exotic grind and “being equal”. Say I want runes of divinity on my character. They are at least 8g a pop, 6*8= 48g just for the runes. Say you make 2g an hour, that’s 24 hours of grinding for runes. The gear itself is 3-4g and average of 14 pieces(1 offhand),42g-56g, 21-28 hours of grinding. Perhaps you want the karma armor instead, 42k at 386(iirc) karma per event, 109 events per piece of armor. Now we do have the daily karma jugs for 4,500, so if we farm 1 piece a day it’s 98 events we need to do. Even at 20 events an hour(1 event every 3 minutes) that’s 5 hours per piece and 30 hours for a set. Dunegons are the same as well, do 20+ runs of the same thing over and over to get your armor set.

This game has an incredible amount of grind. It’s ignorant to just say you can get exotics easy at level 80 for most casuals. The only cheap exotics have very bad stats so you’re not exactly equal to other players. Ascended have just pushed the grinding to another level and I’m sure the new laurel system will be exactly the same, complete 100 events for 1 laurel and 50 laurels for an item!

I agree. What is annoying me is how they BROKE their manifesto so badly. Why bother even having that kind of manifesto? Your attracting the wrong player base. Have a wow styled manifesto then you’ll attrack the grinding player base.

Or how about you actually do dungeons and EARN your gear.

Because video games are work, amirite?

And also because dungeon runners are entitled to more rewards than any other playstyle in the game. Right? Right???

Speaking of entitlement,if you are not willing to do any sort of challenging activity you do not deserve the reward as someone who does.Do you complain to your boss thats its to hard for you to work and you want the full paycheck.No.

Cappy.2786:

Speaking of entitlement,if you are not willing to do any sort of challenging activity you do not deserve the reward as someone who does.Do you complain to your boss thats its to hard for you to work and you want the full paycheck.No.

This is the type of mentality that is destroying this game, and what little is left of the community.

I don’t even want to try to explain it to you, suffice to say it is a segregation / elitist point of view that ANet claimed they didn’t want in GW2.

Now it’s here in spades, and it will only get worse as they drive off certain players in favor of other certain players.

Cappy.2786:

Speaking of entitlement,if you are not willing to do any sort of challenging activity you do not deserve the reward as someone who does.Do you complain to your boss thats its to hard for you to work and you want the full paycheck.No.

I repeat:

Tolmos.8395:

Because video games are work, amirite?

I never understood people’s obsession with trying to turn relaxing hobbies and passtimes into full time jobs, and getting defensive when others have no intention of doing that same thing. It’s like watching a little kid go “If you don’t want to play like I do, then you can’t play at all! They are my toys!!!!”

Forsaken.6720:

ppl just need friends and stop being such a solo grinder and do things…there is a lot of things to do in this game

There really isn’t that much to do; I assume you’re falling back on RP, but RP is robust enough that you don’t even need a PC to engage in it.

Cappy.2786:

Or how about you actually do dungeons and EARN your gear.

What makes you think anyone who is dissatisfied with the current system didn’t put in the time?

Cappy.2786:

Revolution.6301:

I agree. What is annoying me is how they BROKE their manifesto so badly. Why bother even having that kind of manifesto? Your attracting the wrong player base. Have a wow styled manifesto then you’ll attrack the grinding player base.

Or how about you actually do dungeons and EARN your gear.

Yes, because dungeons are “earning” your gear. The dungeons are actually the lowest on the grind totem pole. At 60 tokens for a daily run, you need 20 runs for just an armor set, that’s 7 days of running the same dungeon. Now depending on the dungeon that could be as little as 7 hours for a set or as much as(or more) than 20 hours. Then we have weapons which if we figure 1 2hander and 1hand+offhand that’s another 17 runs. You still cannot get accessories there, and certainly not Best in slot rings. Nor does it cover sigils or runes.

This entire game lacks incentive. Remember when you could run a dungeon and had a good chance to get something that was an upgrade? Not in GW2! The token system forces people into grinding where in other games you might only need to run a dungeon once if you got lucky. Tokens should be a back up to the RNG if it’s unlucky for some people.

The game was supposed to be easy to obtain max stats but hard to obtain cosmetic skins. The problem is that max stats are not easy to obtain and it’s limiting build variety. The poor balancing of game mechanics doesn’t help either because it makes taking a risk on a new stat build that much less enticing. And before people start saying it’s the have-not’s wanting a free hand out complaining, I have all my gear. I have unused exotic berserker gear sitting in my bank alongside runes of divinity. I want a game full of people and the current grind pushes a lot of casuals out. They don’t want to spend 20 hours grinding a dungeon for tokens. Or grinding the same events for karma, or grinding the same fractals for tokens. Or grinding for money to buy the only decent runes/sigils.

This game has grind, it’s undeniable. Is it the most grindy? No, I’ve played the asian 500 level games and they are certainly worse. But for a game that wasn’t supposed to contain a lot of grinding they certainly packed in as much as they could and then topped it off with Diminishing returns.

Distaste.4801:

This game has grind, it’s undeniable. Is it the most grindy? No, I’ve played the asian 500 level games and they are certainly worse. But for a game that wasn’t supposed to contain a lot of grinding they certainly packed in as much as they could and then topped it off with Diminishing returns.

Spot on, for me personally a lot of the angst would be alleviated if they changed drop rates on mats so a player can actually farm the mats needed for crafting without it being a grind. As it is only the most hardcore of farmers are actually able to get the mats needed for crafting.

Cappy.2786:

Revolution.6301:

Distaste.4801:

Avatar.1923:

GW2 isnt a grinder.

you can unlock an play 100% of the content without grinding and be as good as anybody else in wvwvw.

grind is for cosmetics or increased difficulty (fotm) only.

people who grind do it because they want to.
people who complain about the grind… i better not say my opinion ill get infracted.

You most certainly cannot be as good as anyone in WvW. With the addition of Ascended you cannot be as good as everyone in WvW unless you do fractals. Currently, just to get the fractal back item you’re looking at 22 runs(at level 10). A fractal usually runs about an hour, sometimes more depending on the group/fractals. Then we get to rings, 10 runs for a guaranteed ring you want. Maybe you get lucky and get the ring(s) you want from the daily, but I think many are like me and are 0/18. So that’s 30+ hours EASILY of running the same fractals over and over again just to get the best in slot gear to be equal to those that use it for WvW. I don’t know what you call it, but I call that grinding.

Now lets get into the exotic grind and “being equal”. Say I want runes of divinity on my character. They are at least 8g a pop, 6*8= 48g just for the runes. Say you make 2g an hour, that’s 24 hours of grinding for runes. The gear itself is 3-4g and average of 14 pieces(1 offhand),42g-56g, 21-28 hours of grinding. Perhaps you want the karma armor instead, 42k at 386(iirc) karma per event, 109 events per piece of armor. Now we do have the daily karma jugs for 4,500, so if we farm 1 piece a day it’s 98 events we need to do. Even at 20 events an hour(1 event every 3 minutes) that’s 5 hours per piece and 30 hours for a set. Dunegons are the same as well, do 20+ runs of the same thing over and over to get your armor set.

This game has an incredible amount of grind. It’s ignorant to just say you can get exotics easy at level 80 for most casuals. The only cheap exotics have very bad stats so you’re not exactly equal to other players. Ascended have just pushed the grinding to another level and I’m sure the new laurel system will be exactly the same, complete 100 events for 1 laurel and 50 laurels for an item!

I agree. What is annoying me is how they BROKE their manifesto so badly. Why bother even having that kind of manifesto? Your attracting the wrong player base. Have a wow styled manifesto then you’ll attrack the grinding player base.

Or how about you actually do dungeons and EARN your gear.

because doing dungeons isn’t grinding right? :P

Sky.9347:

Cappy.2786:

Speaking of entitlement,if you are not willing to do any sort of challenging activity you do not deserve the reward as someone who does.Do you complain to your boss thats its to hard for you to work and you want the full paycheck.No.

This is the type of mentality that is destroying this game, and what little is left of the community.

I don’t even want to try to explain it to you, suffice to say it is a segregation / elitist point of view that ANet claimed they didn’t want in GW2.

Now it’s here in spades, and it will only get worse as they drive off certain players in favor of other certain players.

You are correct.

HOWEVER, you have to do something to get your gear, right. You cant have everything at lvl 1. There must be a challenge and some kind of achivement – AS LONG AS ITS FUN. There must be som kind of development and progres and there must be drawn a line to this progres somewhere – this somewhere is Ascended gear right now, and it will be for at least the rest of the year.

And why is this so bad? Soon you will be able to get the ascended gear in other parts the game (also WvW). And rember, if the game had launched with Rare gear, and then A-net suddenly had introduced exotic gear in November, everybody would have screamed: “Gear treadmill!, A-net lied to us!, most grindy game EVAR!”

Constructive criticism and patience is the way to go.

jobah.7241:

You are correct.

HOWEVER, you have to do something to get your gear, right. You cant have everything at lvl 1. There must be a challenge and some kind of achivement – AS LONG AS ITS FUN. There must be som kind of development and progres and there must be drawn a line to this progres somewhere – this somewhere is Ascended gear right now, and it will be for at least the rest of the year.

You have to have AS LONG AS IT TAKES A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME and AS LONG AS YOU CAN PLAY ANY OF YOUR ALTS AND STILL BE MAKING PROGRESS for this to work for everyone. Well, except for the people that want better gear than anyone that doesn’t play their way. For them you have to scratch those and AS LONG AS IT IS FUN too.

Sky.9347:

Cappy.2786:

Speaking of entitlement,if you are not willing to do any sort of challenging activity you do not deserve the reward as someone who does.Do you complain to your boss thats its to hard for you to work and you want the full paycheck.No.

This is the type of mentality that is destroying this game, and what little is left of the community.

I don’t even want to try to explain it to you, suffice to say it is a segregation / elitist point of view that ANet claimed they didn’t want in GW2.

Now it’s here in spades, and it will only get worse as they drive off certain players in favor of other certain players.

You are basically saying:“I want everything without even trying or this game sux and is for no lifers.PLEASE MY NEEDS!”-_-

I’m still working on my legendary, I will use gold to buy “most” of the materials I need for my legendary Twilight. I got lucky and made my precursor (Dusk) on my 4th exotic combine in the mystic forge (thank fricken god, saved me like 400g+). Let me tell you something, it will be a lot easier to farm/grind gold.

If you want to take a year to collect every 250 tier 6 material needed to get your legendary, good luck and go for it. By the time you get your twilight, they will have [Avenger’s Twilight of Eternal Legendary Smash Power V3.0] out and you can start all over again with that crap. It is a grind no matter how you look at it.

I started a couple months ago, and a couple weeks ago I had this mindset that I could slowly work my way by colleting mats, that started to get old quick. You wanna know what you gotta do? Farm and grind that gold. Then buy the god kitten mats.

Go do dungeon speed runs, sell lodestones/T6 mats you dont need. Hopefully your server has a healthy population that does Orr, if so run around with the herd and do the events, you can make some decent cash and karma at the same time. (I hate you mystic clovers!!) This is just to make money to get the T6 materials, you still have to actually do the work yourself on your 100% map completion, 500 badges of JUMPING PUZZLE ( nice one anet…), etc.

It is a grind for those of us who have a Permanent Diminishing Return. Some accounts are bugged. Just like I did not receive WvW Bonuses until about 3 weeks – 1 month ago. The DR system has bugged out on some people, causing their drops to be, needless to say, worthless at all times. We are lucky to get 1 or 2 yellows in a day, and have never even seen an Exotic drop, besides for group mates. It makes gathering gold quite horrible, and one of the only ways to make money is by farming material nodes all around the world or WvW. Heck I make more gold in WvW than anything because permanent DR.

Depends upon what you want to achieve in the game. Aspects of GW2 are a grind. It was the same with GW1 (luxon faction ftw!).

Some grind is to be expected. I think the discussion should be centered around how much grind is acceptable. If it takes a casual player “years” to achieve, then the grind is probably too high.

The players I’ve met that have a legendary did so my purchasing some of the materials. Some did so by purchasing everything that could be purchased (including the precursor). I haven’t met anyone that actually purchased the legendary itself though. I haven’t met anyone that obtained 100% of the materials through grind.

So legendaries imho are not about grind — they’re about cash.

Hellkaiser.6025:

Excuse me for just assuming that this translates into another
“X game made X years ago was grindier than this, and thus this isn’t a grinder” thread
Which in itself is insanely flawed logic.

Developmental evolution doesn’t exist apparently…

It doesn’t and it’s sad that it’s missing. I wish they had stuck with their original design not because of my own gameplay but because of how awesome it would be for them to build on the meta system instead of doing what they did in Nov. OP is completely wrong. It’s a grind to build anything. The only number they seem to know is 250. Really it’s that bad. Ever since they left the cosmetic only horizontal progression thing at the roadside prior to launch, it’s gone downhill and it’s going to keep rolling until someone there listens to us and realizes what they’ve done.

It’s the same old story, there were a ton of ways to handle these things and they chose the easiest most contraversial way of handling gear. Just like using DR it’s like there’s no one there telling the upper management that “hey, this is the history of that mechanic, do you really want to go down this road?” It’s enough to wonder just what kind of gamers they really are because they certainly can’t be mmo gamers and not know how damaging some of these mechanics they are using are to a game and it’s community in the mmo industry.