Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2’s over-reliance on stats for a player’s position in the world has turned the game into nothing more than an apple-store iphone game replica.

I guess you get what you pay for though, right? Perhaps it would be a better quality game if it was pay-per-month?

I’m level 80 now, and I feel like all the rubbish I had to go through was barely there in GW1, where a player reached level 20 fairly quickly and was allowed to enjoy the game. Now they’ve added even more extentions post 80. When does it ever stop?

Computer games shouldn’t be geared at stat freaks either, because they are few. Nobody really has the patience to complete the entire landscape based opportunities this game has to offer. Why? Because it’s pointless. Fulfil all the statistics and you will not have achieved any more element of ‘fun gameplay’ that was there when you first entered Tyria after creating your character. It should be the same from start to finish. Reliance on stats for weapons, armour etc…is also not a good way to manage player progress.

It inhibits the feel of the genre.

I feel like GW2’s game mechanics are purely about quantity rather than quality of gameplay.

AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

My opinion is that there is fun when a player feels like he has ‘freedom’. A mesmer should be able to hold a bow and arrow, and choose a runeset to upgrade it.

And what is the purpose of the trophy collection system?

And why are there a million dyes to choose from? And why does my character have to ‘discover’ each dye before using it? This seems a bit pointless.

The producers really should find a way to make the game enjoyable for each individual player, without resorting to over-balancing, and extending the world of Tyria and what you have available.

One of my biggest gripes is how player stats are changed based on zone levels. I feel this is a great injustice to the fantasy MMORPG genre!

At the end of the day, a game should be fun to play, and I have to want to go back to it to enjoy my experience.

Just my thoughts.

:)

Please don’t be upset at my opinions. I still like the Guild Wars franchise (mainly from years of playing GW1), so I will always be a fan. And I also like the graphics in the GW2 landscape.

It is possible to play 90% of the content with rare weapons/armor, you don’t have to worry about stats. You can reach level 80 quickly, it is a fairly long tutorial to learn using your class and weapons sets.

There are weapon restrictions because then there would be 100+ weapon set combinations and skill bars for each class. How many would you use? The best 2 or 3, and the rest 95% would be unnecessary (wasting developers’ time).

You don’t have to use dyes and shiny items, but a lot of players like to make their character unique with skins and colours.

Dynamic level adjustment is an awesome feature, without it all low level zones would be empty, new players would think that the game is dead.

Well…grats on reaching 80 finally.

Op asked;
AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

#imagine a warrior that can cast spells with a staff while wearing skinny lightweight armor, does that sounds normal to you?#

Weren’t armors Profession-specific in Guild Wars (One), rather than weight-specific in Guild Wars 2? Seems like a big step forward, here in GW2, toward what OP prefers.

Weren’t dyes single-use in GW1? That made them somewhat pricey to use. I know I still have several Black Dyes sitting in my bank to this day, because I was ‘saving’ them for …..well, not sure now what I was saving them for. At least here, in GW2, I use dyes much more freely.

As for stats? I’m afraid I never really pay much attention to them. Just wear what drops, or what I craft. Sorry.

Sounds like Guild wars 2 is not the game for you OP. Everything you hate, most people really like. gear is really easy to to get now. at launch, it cost a crazy about of Gold to make exotic armor with the stats you needed. not it’s really cheap in comparison, not to mention do a PvP dungeon track and after 2-3 full runs you should have enough tokens to buy the missing armor bits if you used the boxes for chest and legs, and seeing as you get an exotic helm from finishing the PS, you’ll be fully kitted out. This is how I have geared most of my characters. Also you don’t really need to think about stats unless your a min maxer. 99% of PvE is easy enough to do in full zurker.

If every class could wear what every class can do then whats the point in classes? Where is the balance? And as far as content goes, this is an mmorpg keyword massive your not suppose to finish it within 1 month, wow was more time consuming then this game and it was far more casual then any other mmorpg at the time. I think its just right as far as being time consuming goes.

Do you not usually play even single player rpgs? Maybe you never enjoyed a real sense of progression before in an rpg, you just hit 80 give it a chance and be patient and once you start being rewarded maybe you will like it more.

If you’re asking “Why am I doing this?” regarding entertainment, rather than objective, then GW2 probably isn’t the game for you. You sound like me trying to play a sports game.

/propelballwithfoot

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Guild Wars 2’s over-reliance on stats for a player’s position in the world has turned the game into nothing more than an apple-store iphone game replica.

Player’s position in the world? Slightly to the left of Shaemoor? Possibly north of Ascalon? On an island in a lake in Queensdale?

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I guess you get what you pay for though, right? Perhaps it would be a better quality game if it was pay-per-month?

Getting what you pay for is a good goal. Also.. no. If it was pay per month you’d probably just get an allowance of gems.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

all the rubbish I had to go through

The game?

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Reliance on stats for weapons, armour etc…is also not a good way to manage player progress.

What are you talking about? You level up, you get new gear your level. Some of that gear can be tuned so you are all berserker or all rabid or all knights or whatever. OTOH you can just wear any old mish-mash of gear and still complete all the content.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

what is the purpose of the trophy collection system?

Fun?

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

And why are there a million dyes to choose from? And why does my character have to ‘discover’ each dye before using it? This seems a bit pointless.

Also fun?

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

The producers really should find a way to make the game enjoyable for each individual player, without resorting to over-balancing, and extending the world of Tyria and what you have available.

Just like in real life where everything suits everyone, where birds sing and roses bloom as I pass by. Because just like me, they long to be, close to you.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

One of my biggest gripes is how player stats are changed based on zone levels. I feel this is a great injustice to the fantasy MMORPG genre!

I have no idea what you mean. This game only has for great justice.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

At the end of the day, a game should be fun to play, and I have to want to go back to it to enjoy my experience.

If you’re not enjoying it then you are in luck because there are many games out there to choose from and this one allows you to return when you feel ready to without penalising you.

Really, dude, will all due respect, stop beating yourself up: clearly you just don’t like what GW2 offers. I remember you posting about leveling process being uninspiring and boring to you and yet you still managed to stick around ?!

General Health.9678:

Just like in real life where everything suits everyone, where birds sing and roses bloom as I pass by. Because just like me, they long to be, close to you.

GH, you just made me laugh out loud.

General Health.9678:

Just like in real life where everything suits everyone, where birds sing and roses bloom as I pass by. Because just like me, they long to be, close to you.

Brilliant! I need to put that on my playlist today.

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Op asked;
AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

#imagine a warrior that can cast spells with a staff while wearing skinny lightweight armor, does that sounds normal to you?#

I used to do it in gw1.

Here’s another good post which reflects my opinions:
http://www.giantbomb.com/guild-wars-2/3030-21223/forums/i-think-im-done-with-guild-wars-2-a-month-after-re-561035/

flog.3485:

Really, dude, will all due respect, stop beating yourself up: clearly you just don’t like what GW2 offers. I remember you posting about leveling process being uninspiring and boring to you and yet you still managed to stick around ?!

Errr – as I said in my original post, just because I have these opinions it doesn’t mean I dislike guild wars 2. I am still a fan of the franchise, and there are some things I still like and respect about it. But there are things I am displeased with (strongly) in its development as a second installment.

I will always use the forums to post these opinions, because that’s what it’s here for. If you disagree with me, that’s fine.

If I am paying for a product then I would also like to give feedback if I feel strongly enough about an issue.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Weren’t armors Profession-specific in Guild Wars (One), rather than weight-specific in Guild Wars 2? Seems like a big step forward, here in GW2, toward what OP prefers.

Are you kidding?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Weren’t dyes single-use in GW1? That made them somewhat pricey to use. I know I still have several Black Dyes sitting in my bank to this day, because I was ‘saving’ them for …..well, not sure now what I was saving them for. At least here, in GW2, I use dyes much more freely.

If I want a specific dye colour I have to first discover it, then select it in the wardrobe, then use a transmutation point to change the colour of an item. This goes back to the point I was trying to make earlier about an over-abundance of useless stats instead of normal gameplay. Why can’t I just go to a merchant and choose the colour dye I want and buy it with gold?

Why are there so many different currencies in GW2?

It’s not an MMORPG it’s something else…. It has elements of an MMORPG.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

If I want a specific dye colour I have to first discover it, then select it in the wardrobe, then use a transmutation point to change the colour of an item. This goes back to the point I was trying to make earlier about an over-abundance of useless stats instead of normal gameplay. Why can’t I just go to a merchant and choose the colour dye I want and buy it with gold?

Why are there so many different currencies in GW2?

It’s not an MMORPG it’s something else…. It has elements of an MMORPG.

The bold part is incorrect. Changing colour is free.

@Cedric Ambidexter ok fair enough, I guess we will just agree to disagree. I never intended to say that you could not express what you feel about about the game, I was genuinely surprised that you kept playing it

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Op asked;
AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

#imagine a warrior that can cast spells with a staff while wearing skinny lightweight armor, does that sounds normal to you?#

I used to do it in gw1.

You were able to wear light armor on a warrior in GW1?

Whoa, apparently its changed a lot since I last logged in. That must have been an interestjng patch to balance.

Oh, btw, you can buy dye for gold in GW2. Its actually a much more player friendly system here. You only have to buy a given color once and it is available for you to use freely, changing at will, from then on.

Perhaps it would be a better quality game if it was pay-per-month?

No. You follow this comment up with how you didn’t need to jump through the same hoops in GW1 (to reach max level, to get max gear, etc etc). Thus implying its a better game. Its not pay per month, therefore, you essentially answer your own question. No, pay per month does not, by default, make it a better game.

in GW1, where a player reached level 20 fairly quickly

Mild touch of rose colored glasses with this comment. Only in Factions and Nightfall did you reach level 20 quickly, assuming you’re playing the game in its intended linear fashion. In Prophecies, you didn’t hit max level until the end of Crystal Desert / Droks time period. Southern Shiverpeaks missions. At which point, you only had Ring of Fire left to do. People bypassed this by buying runs to Droks to buy max gear and be power leveled, which was a nice option, but not necessarily how it was intended to be played.

Now they’ve added even more extentions post 80. When does it ever stop?

I can agree that the new 4-stat options added with HoT aren’t something that please me either. I don’t like power creep, no matter how mild. Unfortunately this is just their means of sidestepping their “no more armor tiers” statement, though many don’t view it that way.

And while I can agree with:

Reliance on stats for weapons, armour etc…is also not a good way to manage player progress.

It is unfortunate that this is what people wanted. They wanted to feel like they were getting more powerful via gear. So we ended up with vertical progression a la ascended.

AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

Armor wasn’t like this in GW1. What you could wear was locked behind class, and soulbound on acquire. At least with GW2, if I delete a mes and make a new one, I can reuse the previous character’s gear.

Yes, in GW1, any class could pick up and use any weapon, but they didn’t use it for a weapons intended purpose. Sure, you’d see a monk with a sword or spear and a shield, but they only used them for the mods they could equip, not for the actual purpose of attack, because our skills weren’t tied to our weapon. Here they are. Its a different system, where actually using the weapon to attack is worthwhile and has an impact. (Anyone remember being laughed at for wanding a foe while out of energy?)

And why are there a million dyes to choose from?

There where a million dyes to choose from in GW1 too, if you think about it. Hell, they built us a preview system specifically for playing around with mixing the dye colors. Now they are just doing the mixing by default for us and offering us all the options, and we can even preview them! Its convenience, nothing more. Some people like it.

And why does my character have to ‘discover’ each dye before using it?

Why’d we have to “discover” a mod in pve for it to unlock for use in pvp in GW1? Its a very minor form of progressing that some people enjoy. Others find it annoying. They think they should have everything available right at the start, but then…what is there to work towards? Like with GW1 mods, there is a work around..just buy the ones you want and unlock them.

find a way to make the game enjoyable for each individual player

Not all games are for all people. I’m sorry, but it’s true. I don’t like wildstar, are you saying those game makers should absolutely have to go through and change or make something specifically for me so that I do like it? Lets multiply that across thousands of people. Seems a bit impractical does it not? (I hate the filter)

One of my biggest gripes is how player stats are changed based on zone levels

I love the downleveling feature. I do not like one shotting things all day long. Its boring. Beyond that, I like that my guildie can make a new character, and I can go play with him without worrying that I’m going to kill the foe before he has a chance to hit it, thus robbing him of being able to progress his character. I don’t want to have to buy a slot or blow away a character because I “have” to make a new one to play with him. Personally, I think the downleveling system still needs to reduce stats further than it does. It’s better after the last adjustment, but still needs some tweaking.

At the end of the day, a game should be fun to play

I agree with this wholeheartedly. However, you have to remember that just because you like something, or you find something fun, doesn’t mean everyone else will.

Lanfear,

In GW1, by matching your secondary profession to your weapon, you could make very good attack use of a weapon not intended for your primary profession.

Ashen.2907:

Lanfear,

In GW1, by matching your secondary profession to your weapon, you could make very good attack use of a weapon not intended for your primary profession.

I’m aware, but generally speaking that wasn’t what people were doing. Considering there’s a word limit and sort of beside the point, I wasn’t going to delve into it.

But, yes, a monk may sink 8 points into Strength, Tactics, Command, or Motivation (depending on secondary) if they had a req8 shield (which was super expensive and rare) so they could get the other 8 armor if they could afford the points to do so. However, many didn’t.

Yes, in some cases you would see classes sink points in the weapons for their secondary profession (rt/a with daggers, r/p with spear, a/d with scythe), but I wouldn’t call those out as the “rule.” In those instances, the primary class typically ends up using the secondary classes weapon better than the secondary does when its primary (a/d with scythe is an excellent example of this issue), which simply highlights the flaws with some of the skills, professions, and overall system.

To OP, I think your main issue is looking Gw2 as it should be a sequel of Gw1, when it has never been intended to be.
A lot of folks have done the same mistake and the result is people end up not liking Gw2, but that doesn’t mean the game is bad.
Think about buying a sportscar for off road and be disappointed.

• Leveling in gw2 is not difficult, you can get to 80 in about 30-35h just by killing mobs.
• Gw2 is not a stat based game. Sure equipment gives stats, but the difference between stat tears is so small it doesn’t matter that much. Between Rare and Exotic there’s only a 10% difference, same between Exotic and Ascended.
  A true stat based game is the one where you cannot kill another guy because he does 5 times more damage than you and has twice the amount of armor, and it end ups you hitting by 1000 and him by 10000.
• Full weapon availability is not a requisite, just a feature. In Gw1 you could wear any weapon, but there was little difference between them. In Gw2 weapon choice becomes more relevant in your playstyle. Staffs will be more supportive when greatswords will be more offensive.
  It’s neither a better or worse system, just different.

Ashen.2907:

Lanfear,

In GW1, by matching your secondary profession to your weapon, you could make very good attack use of a weapon not intended for your primary profession.

But you were still limited to a certain amount of useful weapons. It was not like having a warrior/monk and be as effective with a spear or longbow than a staff or hammer.

If I don’t remember wrong, Warrior/ranger was the combination with more based weapons, but the amount wasn’t bigger than what most professions have in Gw2.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I feel like GW2’s game mechanics are purely about quantity rather than quality of gameplay.

Ha, and here I just wrote in another thread that legendaries only reflect the amount of time you are willing to grind… quantity over quality indeed.

Sirendor.1394:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I feel like GW2’s game mechanics are purely about quantity rather than quality of gameplay.

Ha, and here I just wrote in another thread that legendaries only reflect the amount of time you are willing to grind… quantity over quality indeed.

Legendaries really aren’t a good example. They are intended to be a time sink grind. Just like Oby and Vabbian armor were.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I feel like GW2’s game mechanics are purely about quantity rather than quality of gameplay.

Ha, and here I just wrote in another thread that legendaries only reflect the amount of time you are willing to grind… quantity over quality indeed.

Legendaries really aren’t a good example. They are intended to be a time sink grind. Just like Oby and Vabbian armor were.

They aren’t a good example? Because that’s the exact same way masteries, scribing (and guild halls), PvP leagues, fractals (agony resistance) work.

Pretty sure that’s quantity over quality. And I know that the devs are not able to create enough content over time to keep people busy, but really, if people enjoy themselves they will keep playing even if there’s nothing to grind for.

And GW2 does have a lot of nice content, but there really should be more tools for the players to entertain themselves with (i.e. sandbox elements).

Sirendor.1394:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I feel like GW2’s game mechanics are purely about quantity rather than quality of gameplay.

Ha, and here I just wrote in another thread that legendaries only reflect the amount of time you are willing to grind… quantity over quality indeed.

Legendaries really aren’t a good example. They are intended to be a time sink grind. Just like Oby and Vabbian armor were.

They aren’t a good example? Because that’s the exact same way masteries, scribing (and guild halls), PvP leagues, fractals (agony resistance) work.

Pretty sure that’s quantity over quality. And I know that the devs are not able to create enough content over time to keep people busy, but really, if people enjoy themselves they will keep playing even if there’s nothing to grind for.

And GW2 does have a lot of nice content, but there really should be more tools for the players to entertain themselves with (i.e. sandbox elements).

Masteries are only a grind if you insist on farming them. With the exception of the hard stops to story progression on your first character, which only applies to players that bother playing the story. Still, beyond that, we knew exactly what masteries would be like when they announced them, and the feedback given during betas was that we wanted them to be grindy.

Scribing, I agree, no excuse for that. We’ll see how that gets changed tomorrow.

Halls, just aren’t small guild friendly. My understanding is that large-ish guilds don’t really feel there’s an issue.

I’m not touching pvp leagues. People got what they asked for, which kittened the average player over.

Fractals…again, people got what they asked for. They wanted that grinding progression.

Considering the huge fuss over “lack of content,” the whole “quantity” argument just makes me chuckle. Obviously if they were going for quantity, we’d have more. Now wouldn’t we?

Sirendor.1394:

if people enjoy themselves they will keep playing even if there’s nothing to grind for.

And by nothing to grind for you just mean no goals. In that case a lot of people will not just keep playing because they are goal oriented.

Sirendor.1394:

there really should be more tools for the players to entertain themselves with (i.e. sandbox elements).

There is a whole game out there full of maps, dungeons, mobs, mats, npcs, dialogue, cool gear, guilds, events, hidden areas, jumping puzzles.. those are the tools you use to entertain you. Decide you want to spend 50 gold on rare daggers and throw them in the mystic forge. Gather the mats you need for one or more of the Gifts, do map and world complete, gather the tokens from wvwv or dungeons you need. Plenty there to entertain you and if that isn’t enough.. there’s always RP.

Ansau.7326:

To OP, I think your main issue is looking Gw2 as it should be a sequel of Gw1, when it has never been intended to be.
A lot of folks have done the same mistake and the result is people end up not liking Gw2, but that doesn’t mean the game is bad.
Think about buying a sportscar for off road and be disappointed.

• Leveling in gw2 is not difficult, you can get to 80 in about 30-35h just by killing mobs.
• Gw2 is not a stat based game. Sure equipment gives stats, but the difference between stat tears is so small it doesn’t matter that much. Between Rare and Exotic there’s only a 10% difference, same between Exotic and Ascended.
  A true stat based game is the one where you cannot kill another guy because he does 5 times more damage than you and has twice the amount of armor, and it end ups you hitting by 1000 and him by 10000.
• Full weapon availability is not a requisite, just a feature. In Gw1 you could wear any weapon, but there was little difference between them. In Gw2 weapon choice becomes more relevant in your playstyle. Staffs will be more supportive when greatswords will be more offensive.
  It’s neither a better or worse system, just different.

Ashen.2907:

Lanfear,

In GW1, by matching your secondary profession to your weapon, you could make very good attack use of a weapon not intended for your primary profession.

But you were still limited to a certain amount of useful weapons. It was not like having a warrior/monk and be as effective with a spear or longbow than a staff or hammer.

If I don’t remember wrong, Warrior/ranger was the combination with more based weapons, but the amount wasn’t bigger than what most professions have in Gw2.

Actually GW2 was intended to be a sequel to GW. That is what the 2 means. In addition it was described and advertised by Anet as the sequel to GW.

I am not sure what you meant by," more based weapons," for warrior/ranger in GW, but remember that you could change your secondary at will. So, for example, on my GW ranger I could, and did, have builds that made effective use of: longbow, shortbow, flatbow, hornbow, recurve bow, axe, sword, hammer, shield, daggers, scythe, spear, staff, wand/scepter, focus. 15 weapons. In GW2 my ranger can use: longbow, shortbow, dagger, warhorn, torch, sword, greatsword, axe, spear, speargun. 10 weapons. If you remove weapons that did not exist in both games the numbers change to: GW (11) vs GW2 (6).

Dont get me wrong, I understand why Anet took the approach that they did with weapons in GW2. They wanted an easier time balancing than they had in GW (although its unfortunate that they havent managed a semblance of balance despite making that sacrifice). But, it was a sacrifice. The dual profession system meant a given character did have access to more weapons in GW than in GW2.

Ashen.2907:

you could change your secondary at will.

Sure, you could change you secondary “at will.” After you achieved Ascension, Weh No Su, or “Hunted” (depend on what campaign(s) you had). After which, you had to “do” things to change your secondary. For example, in Prophecies, it required you to go back to CD, and follow a quest chain. It wasn’t until they added Profession Changers (or maybe it was just a change to thier functionality. which was what late Factions, early Nightfall time period? its been a while) that you could really truly change your secondary at will, and only to any that you purchased the unlock for on that character (and you still have to be ascended/weh no su/hunted).

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Weren’t armors Profession-specific in Guild Wars (One), rather than weight-specific in Guild Wars 2? Seems like a big step forward, here in GW2, toward what OP prefers.

Are you kidding?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Weren’t dyes single-use in GW1? That made them somewhat pricey to use. I know I still have several Black Dyes sitting in my bank to this day, because I was ‘saving’ them for …..well, not sure now what I was saving them for. At least here, in GW2, I use dyes much more freely.

If I want a specific dye colour I have to first discover it, then select it in the wardrobe, then use a transmutation point to change the colour of an item. This goes back to the point I was trying to make earlier about an over-abundance of useless stats instead of normal gameplay. Why can’t I just go to a merchant and choose the colour dye I want and buy it with gold?

Why are there so many different currencies in GW2?

It’s not an MMORPG it’s something else…. It has elements of an MMORPG.

You don’t have to spend a Transmutation charge to change color. In Guild Wars 2, if you want a dye, you just have to buy it once, and you can use it a billion times forever on everything you wear. In Guild Wars, if you wanted to dye your gear, you had to buy a dye, put it on the gear, buy another dye put it on the next piece of gear.. and when you got a new piece of gear, you had to buy yet another dye, and put it on the piece of gear. Again – Here in GW2, you can infinitely use any dye you’ve bought once. As far as unlocking goes… well, in GW1, you had to buy the dyes before you could apply them. Same thing here. Except now the dyes aren’t lost once you use them.

Actually GW2 was intended to be a sequel to GW. That is what the 2 means. In addition it was described and advertised by Anet as the sequel to GW.

Only really in terms of lore and storyline. Gameplay wise, it was meant to be a sequel to “The MMO” (World of Warcraft, Everquest, and all those clones.), with Guild Wars innovations.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ashen.2907:

you could change your secondary at will.

Sure, you could change you secondary “at will.” After you achieved Ascension, Weh No Su, or “Hunted” (depend on what campaign(s) you had). After which, you had to “do” things to change your secondary. For example, in Prophecies, it required you to go back to CD, and follow a quest chain. It wasn’t until they added Profession Changers (or maybe it was just a change to thier functionality. which was what late Factions, early Nightfall time period? its been a while) that you could really truly change your secondary at will, and only to any that you purchased the unlock for on that character (and you still have to be ascended/weh no su/hunted).

Yup, you had to unlock it. Have to unlock pretty much everything in both games. In both games full weapon unlock comes pretty early in the overall experience. The fastest I ever did it in GW was something like 4 hours (perhaps 5) from character creation to ascension. Much faster in GW2 of course, but still part of character progression, and still 50% more weapons for my main in GW.

I love it when OPs will post factually incorrect things and then completely disregard that they posted factually incorrect things in the hopes that people won’t continue to point out the factually incorrect things they posted.

Dyes can be used an infinite number of times once discovered at absolutely no charge or cost in GW2.

Ashen.2907:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Ashen.2907:

you could change your secondary at will.

Sure, you could change you secondary “at will.” After you achieved Ascension, Weh No Su, or “Hunted” (depend on what campaign(s) you had). After which, you had to “do” things to change your secondary. For example, in Prophecies, it required you to go back to CD, and follow a quest chain. It wasn’t until they added Profession Changers (or maybe it was just a change to thier functionality. which was what late Factions, early Nightfall time period? its been a while) that you could really truly change your secondary at will, and only to any that you purchased the unlock for on that character (and you still have to be ascended/weh no su/hunted).

Yup, you had to unlock it. Have to unlock pretty much everything in both games. In both games full weapon unlock comes pretty early in the overall experience. The fastest I ever did it in GW was something like 4 hours (perhaps 5) from character creation to ascension. Much faster in GW2 of course, but still part of character progression, and still 50% more weapons for my main in GW.

I ended up preferring Factions for building a new character. If you did all of the shing jea quests you hit 20 before leaving the island, and then you could get Weh no Su in less than half an hour after hitting the mainland. Wooo nostalgia. I feel like starting a new character now. XD

What I don’t understand is that OP says this game is all about stats. I haven’t had better stats then my ascended gear ever and I have had those stats for more than a year now, I have changed them from condition damage to a more power centered build but still the numbers are the same amount. Also when HoT arrived I haven’t leveled above level 80 and got more stats. Now tell me what MMO (GW1 does not count) that haven’t increased level cap with an expansion?

Ashen.2907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Op asked;
AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

#imagine a warrior that can cast spells with a staff while wearing skinny lightweight armor, does that sounds normal to you?#

I used to do it in gw1.

You were able to wear light armor on a warrior in GW1?

Whoa, apparently its changed a lot since I last logged in. That must have been an interestjng patch to balance.

Warriors could use wands.

AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

My opinion is that there is fun when a player feels like he has ‘freedom’.

Your suggestion is totally unfriendly with freedom. In a MMO, too many freedom kill the freedom.
Look a Elder Scrolls Online. You can wear all armor and all weapon no matter your class. And what has happened ? You are forced to be a shield wielder in heavy armor if you want to tank, what ever your class. You cannot be a DPS in heavy armor. You cannot be a magic user with a sword and medium armor.
In the end, you couldnt even reconize your class.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Sirendor.1394:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I feel like GW2’s game mechanics are purely about quantity rather than quality of gameplay.

Ha, and here I just wrote in another thread that legendaries only reflect the amount of time you are willing to grind… quantity over quality indeed.

Legendaries really aren’t a good example. They are intended to be a time sink grind. Just like Oby and Vabbian armor were.

They aren’t a good example? Because that’s the exact same way masteries, scribing (and guild halls), PvP leagues, fractals (agony resistance) work.

Pretty sure that’s quantity over quality. And I know that the devs are not able to create enough content over time to keep people busy, but really, if people enjoy themselves they will keep playing even if there’s nothing to grind for.

And GW2 does have a lot of nice content, but there really should be more tools for the players to entertain themselves with (i.e. sandbox elements).

Masteries are only a grind if you insist on farming them. With the exception of the hard stops to story progression on your first character, which only applies to players that bother playing the story. Still, beyond that, we knew exactly what masteries would be like when they announced them, and the feedback given during betas was that we wanted them to be grindy.

Scribing, I agree, no excuse for that. We’ll see how that gets changed tomorrow.

Halls, just aren’t small guild friendly. My understanding is that large-ish guilds don’t really feel there’s an issue.

I’m not touching pvp leagues. People got what they asked for, which kittened the average player over.

Fractals…again, people got what they asked for. They wanted that grinding progression.

Considering the huge fuss over “lack of content,” the whole “quantity” argument just makes me chuckle. Obviously if they were going for quantity, we’d have more. Now wouldn’t we?

When you say people got what they asked for, who exactly are you talking about? Who asked for grinding stats-based progression?

I liked playing GW1 because it was pretty, it was fun and I could do all kinds of crazy things with my monk/build…and it felt like a genuine game, while being true to the fantasy mmo genre, it was different to games like wow which attracted many new players.

And that other guy’s statement about buying a sports car and expecting it to drive in some minor road is weird. Anyone who’s a fan of a franchise’s first installment would naturally move on to the second game with high expectations (not expecting game mechanics to be massively different to the first).

Scipion.7548:

AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

My opinion is that there is fun when a player feels like he has ‘freedom’.

Your suggestion is totally unfriendly with freedom. In a MMO, too many freedom kill the freedom.
Look a Elder Scrolls Online. You can wear all armor and all weapon no matter your class. And what has happened ? You are forced to be a shield wielder in heavy armor if you want to tank, what ever your class. You cannot be a DPS in heavy armor. You cannot be a magic user with a sword and medium armor.
In the end, you couldnt even reconize your class.

Well, imo the countless restrictions and limitations that GW2 has are far too many which ruins my experience of freedom in the game. I hate it. There are so many little things that could be improved. Maybe that’s the issue. I’m not asking for a massive change, it’s minor things that I liked about the first game.

Also, I have extra complaints:

1. I really loved playing a water ele in gw1, but I didn’t like the spells and compared to the other elements they felt a bit weak and under-developed. I was expecting more from the GW2 ele, so I made a new character (my primary char is mesmer), and tried it out. Water ele is still very limited, and why? Water is one of the most powerful forces in nature and yet the spells don’t reflect this. You can basically heal a few allies in an area, shoot an ice blast at someone, then chill them or something like that and drop a few icicles from mid-air. Are they serious?

Where are the tidal wave invocations? Where are the hurricanes, storms, cyclones, typhoons? Wasn’t the ancient god poseidon one of the most powerful?

2. My mesmer basically just finished the main story (I think) and about half an hour ago I destroyed Zhaitan. Where are my legendary rewards? I just killed the great dragon that the entire plot is based on, and I get a few bags of useless goods? Are they kidding me?

I spent months levelling up (ok, I did quit for about 4 of them), but it’s taken hours of gameplay to get to where I am, and I get a few useless gear? Lol. This is so funny.

It just makes me think what exactly do I have to do to get gear which actually makes a difference in the world of Tyria, or whatever it’s called now.

In gw1 when I was level 20 you could literally ‘feel’ the power against enemy npcs. In this game, you don’t, unless you have all the gear and all the stats. So what is the point in levels? Especially with the scaling system across the region. It’s just too much.

I do have one good thing to say (which reminded me of reaching level 20 in gw1). When I got to level 80 a few days ago and trained the chronomancer shield this was amazing. I felt like I had finally achieved something. You can actually ‘feel’ the difference this makes to a mesmers build. That’s what progress should be about. But unfortunately, I have to say that this is the only time so far I have had this experience. And that has taken 6 months to achieve.

What is the excuse for this? Why so long? I am a human being, not a machine. Rewards should come early.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

And that has taken 6 months to achieve.

No, it took you two months to get to level 80. You “quit” for four months.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

When you say people got what they asked for, who exactly are you talking about? Who asked for grinding stats-based progression?

When I say “people” I mean “people.” I try to leave it very general. Typically the largest or loudest prevail (not always are they the same). Just because you or I didn’t desire the change doesn’t mean it wasn’t asked for.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I liked playing GW1 because it was pretty, it was fun and I could do all kinds of crazy things with my monk/build…and it felt like a genuine game, while being true to the fantasy mmo genre, it was different to games like wow which attracted many new players.

I played GW1 as well, for years. I still play from time to time. In fact, I was just working through some Proph missions with a friend this weekend. I get where you’re coming from, to an extent, but GW2 isn’t GW1. We knew this well before launch.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

I love it when OPs will post factually incorrect things and then completely disregard that they posted factually incorrect things in the hopes that people won’t continue to point out the factually incorrect things they posted.

Dyes can be used an infinite number of times once discovered at absolutely no charge or cost in GW2.

Uhm, actually I’m not worried or embarassed about making factual mistakes in my posts. The forum is here for information sharing and you can also learn things. I don’t care about getting things wrong.

I still think the buying bottles of dye for gold in the original game was a better (more normal) way to colour your clothes. I remember black dye being more expensive and being really excited to go around farming enough gold to get enough dye to colour all my armour. And I looked beautiful.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Ashen.2907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Op asked;
AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

#imagine a warrior that can cast spells with a staff while wearing skinny lightweight armor, does that sounds normal to you?#

I used to do it in gw1.

You were able to wear light armor on a warrior in GW1?

Whoa, apparently its changed a lot since I last logged in. That must have been an interestjng patch to balance.

Warriors could use wands.

Wands are considered armor? I’m not so sure about that. Warriors in GW1 could only use Warrior armor, and no other Profession’s armor.

Dye was pay-per-use in GW1, it’s pay-once-use-free-forever in GW2. In fact, if you were here for the first year or so, it was free to acquire and then became unlocked (so free to use from that time forward) once the Wardrobe was implemented.

I guess you could use any weapon in GW1…I pretty much used the weapon that most fit my Profession, but I’m not sure it made any difference to my skill bar, like it does here. As I said previously, I’m not one to worry too much about stats. /shrug

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Ashen.2907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Op asked;
AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

#imagine a warrior that can cast spells with a staff while wearing skinny lightweight armor, does that sounds normal to you?#

I used to do it in gw1.

You were able to wear light armor on a warrior in GW1?

Whoa, apparently its changed a lot since I last logged in. That must have been an interestjng patch to balance.

Warriors could use wands.

Wands are considered armor? I’m not so sure about that. Warriors in GW1 could only use Warrior armor, and no other Profession’s armor.

Dye was pay-per-use in GW1, it’s pay-once-use-free-forever in GW2. In fact, if you were here for the first year or so, it was free to acquire and then became unlocked (so free to use from that time forward) once the Wardrobe was implemented.

I guess you could use any weapon in GW1…I pretty much used the weapon that most fit my Profession, but I’m not sure it made any difference to my skill bar, like it does here. As I said previously, I’m not one to worry too much about stats. /shrug

Ofcourse wands aren’t armour!

Ashen.2907:

…

No, the title only relates to the world/lore used, but Gw2 was never intended to be a second Gw1.
It can be seen in the Gw2 manifesto: https://www.guildwars2.com/es/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/

And more precisely:
“Guild Wars 2 is the perfect game for Guild Wars players, but it’s not just the same game repeated again. We took this opportunity to question everything, and we have some exciting answers for you today.”

About weapons choice, what I wanted to say is that a specific profession combination only had a handful of weapons related to traits.
Let’s say you had a build based on Warrior/Ranger. Bows, axe or hammer were boosted by traits, but staff didn’t. If you wanted to use a staff you could, but it wasn’t boosted. Of course you could change the secondary profession, but then you changed the build. Same happens in Gw2.
Then there’s the fact of weapon swap in combat. You cannot straight compare the amount of builds in Gw1 and Gw2 based on weapon choice.

Complaining about weapon lock in Gw2 without realizing now we’ve gained a purpose for weapons is a bit naive. Now weapon choice means something, you choose a weapon because a play style/role. That was an issue of Gw1, a monk doing the same with a shield, spear or staff…

Gw2 is based more on the performance of a limited set of builds, combat positioning and the actions/reactions based on animations. Gw1 was more based on build theory-crafting, combat organization and combo designs.
The fact that gw2 has less overall amount of builds is not a bad thing, because the game doesn’t rely on it.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Ashen.2907:

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

Op asked;
AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

#imagine a warrior that can cast spells with a staff while wearing skinny lightweight armor, does that sounds normal to you?#

I used to do it in gw1.

You were able to wear light armor on a warrior in GW1?

Whoa, apparently its changed a lot since I last logged in. That must have been an interestjng patch to balance.

Warriors could use wands.

Yes, of course. No one has contested that (in fact I went into just that sort of versatility in greater detail in this very thread)…

…but you said that you could wield a staff while wearing light armor.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

I still think the buying bottles of dye for gold in the original game was a better (more normal) way to colour your clothes. I remember black dye being more expensive and being really excited to go around farming enough gold to get enough dye to colour all my armour. And I looked beautiful.

You can buy dye with gold in GW2 as well.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Uhm, actually I’m not worried or embarassed about making factual mistakes in my posts.

So you’re happy to just talk utter nonsense, cause trouble and then just carry on because the sound of your own voice is so appealing to you?

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

The forum is here for information sharing and you can also learn things. I don’t care about getting things wrong.

Terrible forum pvp when this is what it comes down to.

Cedric Ambidexter.9174:

Also, I have extra complaints:

That really does not surprise us. We get that you want it to be GW1, but it isn’t. It’s different and if that makes you unhappy you have the power to do something about it.

Ansau.7326:

Ashen.2907:

…

No, the title only relates to the world/lore used, but Gw2 was never intended to be a second Gw1.
It can be seen in the Gw2 manifesto: https://www.guildwars2.com/es/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/

And more precisely:
“Guild Wars 2 is the perfect game for Guild Wars players, but it’s not just the same game repeated again. We took this opportunity to question everything, and we have some exciting answers for you today.”

About weapons choice, what I wanted to say is that a specific profession combination only had a handful of weapons related to traits.
Let’s say you had a build based on Warrior/Ranger. Bows, axe or hammer were boosted by traits, but staff didn’t. If you wanted to use a staff you could, but it wasn’t boosted. Of course you could change the secondary profession, but then you changed the build. Same happens in Gw2.
Then there’s the fact of weapon swap in combat. You cannot straight compare the amount of builds in Gw1 and Gw2 based on weapon choice.

Complaining about weapon lock in Gw2 without realizing now we’ve gained a purpose for weapons is a bit naive. Now weapon choice means something, you choose a weapon because a play style/role. That was an issue of Gw1, a monk doing the same with a shield, spear or staff…

Gw2 is based more on the performance of a limited set of builds, combat positioning and the actions/reactions based on animations. Gw1 was more based on build theory-crafting, combat organization and combo designs.
The fact that gw2 has less overall amount of builds is not a bad thing, because the game doesn’t rely on it.

“not just the same game repeated again,” does not mean, “not a sequel.”

“So could you set the scene for Guild Wars 2?”

Jeff Strain: It’s set hundreds of years after the events in the original game. Obviously, when you sit down and you’re going to do a sequel to a big game like this, one of the first things you talk about is the world and the setting and what the story should be. Our belief with Guild Wars is that we’ve really covered throughout the three campaigns of Guild Wars 1 a wide swathe of area from a geographical standpoint. The world is quite large. And we really didn’t relish the thought of throwing all that away and building a new world.

http://www.gamesradar.com/guild-wars-2-interview-part-one/

Jeff Strain disagrees with you regarding Anet’s intention for GW2. They sat down specifically to do a sequel to GW.