Guild Wars 2

Can I have your stuff?

Really another one? I’m running out of space on my GW CD to make a scratch on for you guys…

I find it so immensely tragic that there will likely never be a true successor to this game…

I found it immensely tragic when my brother died at 17 years old. A game not having a “true successor” doesn’t hit any level of tragedy. A “true successor” to Guild Wars 1 can still be made by another company who is willing to make an MMO using Guild Wars 1 mechanics and their own lore.

When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.

As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.

Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.

Ain’t gonna be another GW. The dinosaurs won. Evolution is just a gimmick.

Vayne.8563:

When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.

As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.

Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.

They dropped the Ball, Vayne.

They snatched defeat from the Jaws of Success and became EveryMMO.

People quit playing games that had all those things you listed to Play GW. It was a gem of innovation for the times.

And still.. with all you listed, GW2 has yet to catch up with a game as old as EQ2 that has truly customizable Guild Halls.. several tiers worth, far more functional Guild Banks and management, Appearance Slots you can slot ANY armor or weapon into, and has had swimming, jumping, and underwater combat since 2005. This game doesn’t even have a configurable UI or particle effect control client side.

I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that EQ2 has flowing capes for.. 21 races.

GW2 has yet to step up to the plate on what they COULD have been.

I think the point the OP was trying to make is that all the best things about GW1 and the things that made it unique were all scrapped for GW2. And I agree with this point. I was a long-time player of GW1 from Prophecies all the way to EoTN. Loved every minute of it. I would disagree with the op’s point about GW2 as a whole as I still find it very enjoyable. I have never seen an mmo do armor/weapon skin and color customization better than GW2. They defiitely hit the sweet spot there. as Well I agree about PvP. In GW2 PvP is a complete mess. In GW1 (yes I was there for the pvp heydays OP refers to) PvP was balanced, fun and rewarding. But in all honesty given what I said before about GW2 not adopting the core things that made GW1 great, I would have to agree that 2 is not a successor to 1. If they wanted to hit that benchmark here are the bullet points they’d have to hit.

- Guild Capes (a small but under-appreciated part of GW1)
- Weapon Dye (I was particularly dissapointed this didn’t make the cut)
- A MASSIVE database of skills (weapon, utility & elite) to choose from. The selection of skills to choose from in GW2 (especially when compared to GW1) Leaves a whole lot to be desired.
- If more weapon skills from the above are not possible, then a much larger variety of weapon types would be needed.

In conclusion, the last thing they’d have to do is SERIOUSLY step up their expansion game. The amount of content in HoT absolutely PALES in comparison to the amount of content in each GW1 Expansion. A whole new campaign, new database of skills, at least 2 new character classes and more. Also for GW1 each expansion you bought gave you more character slots. The fact that I have to buy a special edition of HoT for more character slots to come with it is shameful.

tldr: I miss Mhenlo.

I loved GW1 and it invokes strong memories, most of which are positive. It was a game which founded rich lore, founded a better business model for us all and has had aspects emulated in so many mmos since.

Having said that, I remember:
the vast complaints of storytelling,
Pvp,
huge imbalance of classes,
grind for titles and social stuff particularly during some festivals
the hatred for hard mode by casuals versus the love by more elite players,
map design in Cantha,
world exploration being a nightmare to get 100%

For everything amazing that GW1 did and it was groundbreaking and evolved to a high level by its end, there are many echoes of complaints of what it did wrong then as what GW2 is perceived to be doing wrong now.

GW2 makes many of the same mistakes of the past and a whole host of new ones in its story and uncetainty in how it wants to celiver its vision and that is part of the problem. However, it has attracted a wider audience and continues to at least try to break new ground – sometimes failing, sometimes succeeding. But, GW1 was no perfection judging by what the vocal community often were saying at the time.

GW is an amazing game. GW2 is also an amazing game. Would I have liked GW with better graphics? Yes. Am I sorry with what we got in GW2? No not at all. There is plenty to like the games. You just don’t want to see it op. Also your opinions are just that. Not fact.

There are many looking at Guild Wars 1 through rose colored glasses.

Dyeing weapons: mostly there were only small unimportant areas that dyed that didn’t make a big enough change to be worth mentioning. I’m sure people here are talking about big changes to weapons with dyeing but truthfully, it’s kind of niche and I doubt it’s worth the dev time to change it now after all this time and all the weapons in game.

Mix and match professions and skills: it was a balancing nightmare and would be even worse with more people playing. This gameplay is more restrictive but Anet spend a lot of time in gw1 nerfing skills right and left as overpowered skill combinations are found.

More powerful elites and skills: a problem in content where you’ve got a hundred or more players in one small area, not 8 or 12 max. The boss would have to be turbocharged to not melt in seconds, much less the minutes they die now.

Different PvP types: I’ll give the OP that. I’ve never understood why they were so insistent on one type of PvP when Guild Wars 1 had multiples.

Capes: design limitations, probably because of Charr. It must not be easy to solve because I remember a post long ago where an ANet staff said people were working on it in their spare time to try to get capes in game. Whatever the problem was it must not have been solvable.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

There are many looking at Guild Wars 1 through rose colored glasses.

Dyeing weapons: mostly there were only small unimportant areas that dyed that didn’t make a big enough change to be worth mentioning. I’m sure people here are talking about big changes to weapons with dyeing but truthfully, it’s kind of niche and I doubt it’s worth the dev time to change it now after all this time and all the weapons in game.

Mix and match professions and skills: it was a balancing nightmare and would be even worse with more people playing. This gameplay is more restrictive but Anet spend a lot of time in gw1 nerfing skills right and left as overpowered skill combinations are found.

More powerful elites and skills: a problem in content where you’ve got a hundred or more players in one small area, not 8 max. The boss would have to be turbocharged to not melt in seconds, much less the minutes they die now.

Different PvP types: I’ll give the OP that. I’ve never understood why they were so insistent on one type of PvP when Guild Wars 1 had multiples.

Capes: design limitations, probably because of Charr. It must not be easy to solve because I remember a post long ago where an ANet staff said people were working on it in their spare time to try to get capes in game. Whatever the problem was it must not have been solvable.

If it’s my points that you’re mainly responding to, here are my rebuttals.

Dyeing weapons: Given GW2’s armor dyeing system, the assumption is that if weapon dyeing were in GW2 it would work the same way. 2-4 Color segments you could customize for different parts of the weapon. Not the 1 Dye for small changes in the weapons like in GW1. To people like myself who spend far more time playing Fashion Wars 2 than Guild Wars 2, being able to change colors of specific segments of my weapons would be, in a word, HUGE.

Mix and match: I made absolutely no references to the Primary/Secondary Class system in GW1. I know that it just wouldn’t work with the class types and mechanics we have in GW2.

More powerful elites and skills: You may have misunderstood what I was saying. Skill power is not what I’m concerned with. Just skill VARIETY. I made no mention of the current strength of skills needing a buff or that STRONGER skills were needed. Simply that a larger variety of skills to choose from is needed. I mean just look at our Elite skill options. Very lacking. No, what would be needed is a massive variety of weapon, utility and elite skills to choose from.

Capes: If capes aren’t doable then something. Anything. Currently you need a particular Guild Weapon to actually have your guild emblem on you. And the guild weapons that can display your emblem are VERY lackluster.

Vayne.8563:

When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.

As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.

Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.

None of those things were truly needed either, especially the trading post. That one thing has dominated what could have been a great free economy..

Guildwars was a Corpg

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.

As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.

Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.

None of those things were truly needed either, especially the trading post. That one thing has dominated what could have been a great free economy..

Guildwars was a Corpg

I agree with the above statement. I think Trade Posts/Auction Houses should be done away with entirely in games of this nature.

Haxwell.7398:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

There are many looking at Guild Wars 1 through rose colored glasses.

Dyeing weapons: mostly there were only small unimportant areas that dyed that didn’t make a big enough change to be worth mentioning. I’m sure people here are talking about big changes to weapons with dyeing but truthfully, it’s kind of niche and I doubt it’s worth the dev time to change it now after all this time and all the weapons in game.

Mix and match professions and skills: it was a balancing nightmare and would be even worse with more people playing. This gameplay is more restrictive but Anet spend a lot of time in gw1 nerfing skills right and left as overpowered skill combinations are found.

More powerful elites and skills: a problem in content where you’ve got a hundred or more players in one small area, not 8 max. The boss would have to be turbocharged to not melt in seconds, much less the minutes they die now.

Different PvP types: I’ll give the OP that. I’ve never understood why they were so insistent on one type of PvP when Guild Wars 1 had multiples.

Capes: design limitations, probably because of Charr. It must not be easy to solve because I remember a post long ago where an ANet staff said people were working on it in their spare time to try to get capes in game. Whatever the problem was it must not have been solvable.

If it’s my points that you’re mainly responding to, here are my rebuttals.

Dyeing weapons: Given GW2’s armor dyeing system, the assumption is that if weapon dyeing were in GW2 it would work the same way. 2-4 Color segments you could customize for different parts of the weapon. Not the 1 Dye for small changes in the weapons like in GW1. To people like myself who spend far more time playing Fashion Wars 2 than Guild Wars 2, being able to change colors of specific segments of my weapons would be, in a word, HUGE.

Mix and match: I made absolutely no references to the Primary/Secondary Class system in GW1. I know that it just wouldn’t work with the class types and mechanics we have in GW2.

More powerful elites and skills: You may have misunderstood what I was saying. Skill power is not what I’m concerned with. Just skill VARIETY. I made no mention of the current strength of skills needing a buff or that STRONGER skills were needed. Simply that a larger variety of skills to choose from is needed. I mean just look at our Elite skill options. Very lacking. No, what would be needed is a massive variety of weapon, utility and elite skills to choose from.

Capes: If capes aren’t doable then something. Anything. Currently you need a particular Guild Weapon to actually have your guild emblem on you. And the guild weapons that can display your emblem are VERY lackluster.

Actually, no. It wasn’t your post i was responding to. If it was, I would have quoted you. I was remarking on the many complaints about Guild Wars 1 vs Guild Wars 2 that I’ve read over the years. Your post merely echoed some of those complaints.

So, in direct comment to you.

Dyeing weapons: nice I’m sure but they’ve already said it’s too much work at this time to do it. It’s water under the bridge now.

The skills: since I wasn’t answering you, I didn’t misunderstand what you were saying. My post was about strength, not variety. Nothing to do with your post.

Capes: they have the flag backpieces that have guild emblems on them so that’s your “Anything” that you asked for.

Those flag things look just plain bad. And hopefully it’s not water under the bridge. It’d be a stupid move on their part to close avenues to things that their community wants. Especially considering how long it took them to release HoT.

Haxwell.7398:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

There are many looking at Guild Wars 1 through rose colored glasses.

Dyeing weapons: mostly there were only small unimportant areas that dyed that didn’t make a big enough change to be worth mentioning. I’m sure people here are talking about big changes to weapons with dyeing but truthfully, it’s kind of niche and I doubt it’s worth the dev time to change it now after all this time and all the weapons in game.

Mix and match professions and skills: it was a balancing nightmare and would be even worse with more people playing. This gameplay is more restrictive but Anet spend a lot of time in gw1 nerfing skills right and left as overpowered skill combinations are found.

More powerful elites and skills: a problem in content where you’ve got a hundred or more players in one small area, not 8 max. The boss would have to be turbocharged to not melt in seconds, much less the minutes they die now.

Different PvP types: I’ll give the OP that. I’ve never understood why they were so insistent on one type of PvP when Guild Wars 1 had multiples.

Capes: design limitations, probably because of Charr. It must not be easy to solve because I remember a post long ago where an ANet staff said people were working on it in their spare time to try to get capes in game. Whatever the problem was it must not have been solvable.

If it’s my points that you’re mainly responding to, here are my rebuttals.

Dyeing weapons: Given GW2’s armor dyeing system, the assumption is that if weapon dyeing were in GW2 it would work the same way. 2-4 Color segments you could customize for different parts of the weapon. Not the 1 Dye for small changes in the weapons like in GW1. To people like myself who spend far more time playing Fashion Wars 2 than Guild Wars 2, being able to change colors of specific segments of my weapons would be, in a word, HUGE.

Mix and match: I made absolutely no references to the Primary/Secondary Class system in GW1. I know that it just wouldn’t work with the class types and mechanics we have in GW2.

More powerful elites and skills: You may have misunderstood what I was saying. Skill power is not what I’m concerned with. Just skill VARIETY. I made no mention of the current strength of skills needing a buff or that STRONGER skills were needed. Simply that a larger variety of skills to choose from is needed. I mean just look at our Elite skill options. Very lacking. No, what would be needed is a massive variety of weapon, utility and elite skills to choose from.

Capes: If capes aren’t doable then something. Anything. Currently you need a particular Guild Weapon to actually have your guild emblem on you. And the guild weapons that can display your emblem are VERY lackluster.

I’m pretty sure my Guildie wears Guild Armor and displays Guild emblems on his chest/back. Thus, not just a ‘particular Guild Weapon’.

Haxwell.7398:

Those flag things look just plain bad. And hopefully it’s not water under the bridge. It’d be a stupid move on their part to close avenues to things that their community wants. Especially considering how long it took them to release HoT.

Here is the quote on dyeing weapons

Dyeing weapons

jpetrie

I can’t give you specifics or anything (they’d be very tedious to compute even if I still had access to the code), but GW2’s codebase is very much an evolution of the codebase used for GW1. We did not start over, or anything crazy, but nor did we use the GW1 code unchanged.

Huge chunks of gameplay code were added, removed, or refactored so heavily as to be effectively-new (even things you might think would be the same, like inventory). The core rendering and networking capabilities had some significant reworking to support new features, but a lot of the fundamentals remained the same. The very low-level stuff, such as the classes we use to manage collections of data, do math, sort things… those didn’t change much and some files might even be identical to the ones in GW1, except maybe for some copyright or header date changes.

Essentially if you view the code as a vertical stack of functionality, with very-game-specific gameplay code at the top and generic data structure/algorithm stuff at the bottom, the closer something is to the top the more likely it experienced significant tweaking at some point during GW2’s development.

To address the specific topic of this thread (dying stuff)… what I recall (so I might be wrong) is that the decision to dye armor but not weapons was a design one (in the sense we chose to do it, not that there were insurmountable technical issues), and made pretty early. We wanted a much richer dye system for GW2 than we had in GW1. This would require some changes to the way that the source art was authored, which increased the complexity (and thus time) of doing so. That additional complexity pays off best for armor, which is more visible on-screen than weapons generally are, and so (I think) it was decided that we wouldn’t bother authoring dye support into the weapon art. Eventually this decision would have led to code changes or optimization relying on that assumption, and we arrive at where we are today.

As with all things, it could be made possible to dye weapons with sufficient code and art resources sunk into it. But it would be a nontrivial undertaking (and probably a non-trivial patch download!) to re-author all the existing source art with appropriate metadata for dye channels.

(Please keep in mind that all of this is from memory from a long time ago, so I may be forgetting/misremembering/et cetera some things.)

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.

As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.

Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.

They dropped the Ball, Vayne.

They snatched defeat from the Jaws of Success and became EveryMMO.

People quit playing games that had all those things you listed to Play GW. It was a gem of innovation for the times.

And still.. with all you listed, GW2 has yet to catch up with a game as old as EQ2 that has truly customizable Guild Halls.. several tiers worth, far more functional Guild Banks and management, Appearance Slots you can slot ANY armor or weapon into, and has had swimming, jumping, and underwater combat since 2005. This game doesn’t even have a configurable UI or particle effect control client side.

I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that EQ2 has flowing capes for.. 21 races.

GW2 has yet to step up to the plate on what they COULD have been.

On the other hand, EQ2 has a leveling system that divides players based on time played, maps that quickly get rendered obsolete as you outlevel them, an economy that locks new players out with runaway inflation, and a completely dead world. And don’t even get me started on the combat system. Nor could you play as a massive dragon-cat (Though you can play as a cute cat-person)

EQ2 is the game that sent me back to GW2.

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.

As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.

Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.

None of those things were truly needed either, especially the trading post. That one thing has dominated what could have been a great free economy..

Guildwars was a Corpg

I agree with the above statement. I think Trade Posts/Auction Houses should be done away with entirely in games of this nature.

I am so glad you’re in “So small it’s completely irrelevant” minority. The trading post is an absolutely amazing addition to the game.

Rukia.9860:

I find it so immensely tragic that there will likely never be a true successor to this game…our best chance, GW2, threw away everything that made its predecessor so great in order to, ironically, become another generic mmo, the very thing that GW tried – and succeeded in splendidly, too – getting away from at the time when the old Anet, formerly part of Blizz, decided to make a game that could rival the giant of the era that was WoW. So they worked magic, and we got the best no-fee b2p team-oriented (“mmo”)rpg which had huge emphasis on pvp, yet was incredibly social because of its emphasis on team play (although admittedly, the bar to pvp entry could be an issue at times).
The Anet of 2005 were true pioneers, they created something that is, to me, an unrivaled online pvp experience when it comes to team games. If only they hadn’t been so ahead of their time, and esp so ahead of the whole e-sports scene going global, not to mention the bloom of streaming and casting…. hell, they virtually pioneered e-sport too outside Korea with the world championships in Cologne, but alas it was still too early.

The guys at Anet worked magic back then, and anyone who was somewhat involved in the pvp heydays knows how incredible an experience it gave.
At the same time, pve too was a one of a kind thing, where you could make your own bars and farm specific zones using builds you’d never see in any other game (hello 55hp/605hp monk tanks, wammo droks runners, obsidian warrior or ele tanks, oh the memories).

And then that music … all hail Jeremy Soule. And the character design, so beautiful (GW2, go hide).

What a blast the game was.?

Below are some of my opinions on GW2

Pvp is always in a horrible state here, and pve is… well, it’s boring. No substance in its combat, no interesting rotations, build options, or customization.

In the end, while GW2 feels like it is a copypasta of all the other MMO’s trying to be cool and edgy, it actually lacks more features than other MMOs to the point that I would rather just play WoW or whatever because at least they aren’t afraid to admit what they are and commit to most of their design choices from day 1 therefore design that structure much much better than GW2, is actually enjoyable rather than feeling of grind.

They don’t use the players as beta testers on live servers and they surely don’t try to push esports to the point it is unhealthy for the game & its playerbase when the game simply will not achieve it.

You can’t throw money at a problem and it just fix itself… not even your top pvpers take the game seriously! It’s a free paycheck to them, and who could take it seriously with the lack of the most basic esports tools in the game?

But most importantly, it is not fun to watch & more times than not it is more frustrating than fun to play with all of the so eloquently dubbed ‘cancer’ in the game.

I blame the fact that the ANet team grew much too fast, with too many new blood and with most of the original team “leaving for other projects” that things got too messy during development, visions were blurred and design structure is just whack. If you watch manifesto now it just blows my mind lol.

I’ve said my peace, bid you all farewell and goodluck!

I feel GW2 is what GW1 should have been in many aspects.

And then that music … all hail Jeremy Soule. (GW2, go hide).

Soule composes the music to GW2 as well (pre HoT). Songs from GW1 are also in GW2. (Now I’m wondering if you even actually played this game?)

In the end, while GW2 feels like it is a copypasta of all the other MMO’s trying to be cool and edgy, it actually lacks more features than other MMOs to the point that I would rather just play WoW…

Oh, I saw this coming. Go play WoW then. I don’t know what you were trying to gain by posting all of this like we were supposed to care about how you feel about this game?

GW1 was/is/well be great.

The greater crime will be when they shut it down without something in place to ensure it lives on in offline mode.

I really would like to see some gw1 content brought over into gw2 as bonus mission pack like we saw in gw1.

I understand your concerns OP, and shared them at one point. There is no doubt that I had to come to terms with the fact that GW2 was not the game I thought I was buying. Rather than containing everything I loved about GW1, it actively forsook pretty much everything that made GW1 my favorite game.

That said, taken for itself, without comparison to the original, it is a decent game. Not the best I have played, not the worst. Pretty darned good really. Certainly in my top five. Would I be happier with it if:

1) I could forgo having a pet on my ranger in favor of a personal power increase.
2) I could tone down all skill visual effects (mine and others).
3) I could dye my weapons.
4) There were more non-trenchcoat medium armor options for males.
5) Ascended gear was either eliminated or gained for reaching level cap (best statistical gear by max level)

Yes. Very much so.

Sartharina.3542:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.

As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.

Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.

They dropped the Ball, Vayne.

They snatched defeat from the Jaws of Success and became EveryMMO.

People quit playing games that had all those things you listed to Play GW. It was a gem of innovation for the times.

And still.. with all you listed, GW2 has yet to catch up with a game as old as EQ2 that has truly customizable Guild Halls.. several tiers worth, far more functional Guild Banks and management, Appearance Slots you can slot ANY armor or weapon into, and has had swimming, jumping, and underwater combat since 2005. This game doesn’t even have a configurable UI or particle effect control client side.

I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that EQ2 has flowing capes for.. 21 races.

GW2 has yet to step up to the plate on what they COULD have been.

On the other hand, EQ2 has a leveling system that divides players based on time played, maps that quickly get rendered obsolete as you outlevel them, an economy that locks new players out with runaway inflation, and a completely dead world. And don’t even get me started on the combat system. Nor could you play as a massive dragon-cat (Though you can play as a cute cat-person)

EQ2 is the game that sent me back to GW2.

Vayne.8563:

Dante.1508:

Vayne.8563:

When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.

As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.

Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.

None of those things were truly needed either, especially the trading post. That one thing has dominated what could have been a great free economy..

Guildwars was a Corpg

I agree with the above statement. I think Trade Posts/Auction Houses should be done away with entirely in games of this nature.

I am so glad you’re in “So small it’s completely irrelevant” minority. The trading post is an absolutely amazing addition to the game.

I was only addressing QoL features, not gameplay. One correction, you can Chrono down to whatever level you wish to be. No map is Obsolete.

Well to me GW2 is a very good, the story GW, the world is GW and the music is very GW until LS and HoT and in my opinion the new composers are keeping the GW feeling alive, they are very good, just because they don’t have a famous name doesn’t mean they can do great music.

Many skills and movements are exactly like they are in GW1, the smooth and perfect perfect feeling when moving in the game is exactly like GW1, many enemies are the same as in GW1.
When it all comes together it gives me a perfect feeling of a sequel.

And about the being just like any other MMO, that is so darn untrue, it is not the same mechanic as GW1 but it is far from any other generic MMO. I have had many friends and guild mates leaving the game because it is not like wow or other MMOs.

So now tell me is there any other MMOs out there that came before GW2 that; have such active combat, have no trading system, no sparring, no mounts, have waypoints, zones that lowers your level to not making old content absolete, gear that won’t get better for every new update/expansion, no new levels, account bound dyes that let’s you colour your gear on the fly, wardrobe system to let you change gear and outfits between over 100 variations on the fly, only able to use 10 skills during combat and not over 30 skills that fills up your UI, let’s you play the game instead of just looking at HPS meters on the UI, have a living story (that should have been updated regularly), have no stupid quests that you have to collect, do and return, have an event system that makes maps more alive and more.

I do not agree. I actually didn’t like GW1 because everything was instanced. Also, those henchmen and heroes were annoying and boring. I don’t like it when I have to rely on NPCs. I either want to solo or play with real people. I prefer GW2 in every aspect.

GW2 is not perfect but still beats GW1 (which was fun already) hands down.

Edgar, I have seen at least one game that does much of that. Some of it better than GW2. Different genre though. Superheroes rather than Fantasy.

Ashen.2907:

Edgar, I have seen at least one game that does much of that. Some of it better than GW2. Different genre though. Superheroes rather than Fantasy.

Marvel Heroes!

Ashen.2907:

Edgar, I have seen at least one game that does much of that. Some of it better than GW2. Different genre though. Superheroes rather than Fantasy.

Oh no! That’s to bad well I guess GW2 is a generic Wow clone then.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Can I have your stuff?

OI.

that’s my line.

I miss how easy it was to make builds, and that the content challenged me to make new builds to tackle different areas. The attribute/equipment system was so streamlined it made build making super accessible.

Really, I have no idea why the attribute/equipment system was so radically changed between the first game and the second. Only thing I can think of was because other mmorpg put stats on armor, and use tons of stats to influence skills.

Topics such as this one have bothered me right from the start. I still remember hundreds of them with people complaining about that fact that this game is indeed not Guild Wars 2.0 but an actual sequal to game that was released in 2005.

All of us have this one game, often our first MMO, that we put on this golden pedistule in our mind. A game that will never have it’s equal in terms of community, build diversity or PvP. At least that is how we feel about it.
People don’t stop to think about how far their personal feelings are influced by simple nostalgia. The one community that you experience when you go from mostly singleplayer to a MASS MULTIPLAYER MMO will always stay in your mind.
Also, hardly anyone even knew about balance or min-max’ing builds back in 2005/2006. Games weren’t any more balance or allowed for more diversity back in the day – people simply didn’t care as much or knew any better. Games were far less balanced than they are nowadays.

I also have my first MMO that I loved. Those games obviously had great features, otherwise people wouldn’t pick then up and play them for years. You should still be honest with yourself.
My game – Silkroad Online had the most fun PvP features out of any MMO I have ever played. There is nothing on the current market that is similar to those features apart from maybe ArcheAge with their pirating system.
But to be honest, the game is horribly dated now. I would not even want a full translation into a 2016 game. Too many things would just neither work nor sell nowadays. The playerbase changed too much in the last ten years.

Picking up any of the ancient games can be a bit of an eye opener when you were just seeing the game through your nostalgia goggles before. Don’t get me wrong, I have many things about GW2 that I could do without or which I would want changed.
Yet, the game’s biggest strength is it’s mass appeal to the newer player base. Mass appeal is something GW1 never had.

I played several mmorpgs for years before GW and what I loved about GW is did things in a clever way that actually really worked well. That’s really what disappointed me the most about GW2. GW2 opted to copy not only the framework of every other mmorpg, but abandon so many mechanics in the original game that were never broken. Felt like it was merely using the GW brand to create the “same old mmo” experience.

Attribute system – Wasn’t broken, so why change it for something that’s been done to death. The system most mmorpgs use is mind mindbogglingly convoluted and short-sighted and GW2 copied them? Doesn’t make sense.
Equipment system – Wasn’t broken either, and once again it just made no sense to copy how other mmorpgs do it. Other mmorpgs are either just copying what’s already been done or failing miserably at trying to come up with something else that works. And GW found a system that actually worked and was refreshing! Why change it?!
Morale system – Why not use that in the sequel? What was wrong with it?
Secondary Profession – So it was supposedly abandoned because it was hard to balance, yet GW2 is even more imbalanced. That doesn’t add up!
Capping skills – Nobody complained about it, and it was so unique. I just don’t understand.
etc, etc, etc
Whyyyyyyyy?!

I love everything about gw1 it’s a masterpiece, nothing compares to it. I just wish it was still alive, especially all the pvp areas and elite areas like domain of anguish and underworld.

They could have called it “Not Guild Wars”, given that Guild vs Guild does not seem to be a thing in GW2.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

When we talk about features, since Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a trading post, a mail system, a way to truly customize guild halls, a wardrobe system, or even jumping and swimming, I’d say the OP’s viewing Guild Wars 1 through rose-colored glasses.

As far as this being like every other MMO, that’s just not true. I think the confusion here is that the OP thinks Guild Wars 1 was an MMO rather than a lobby game. A lot of the changes in Guild Wars 2 have to do with the transition to an open world, as well as a larger player base with more diverse tastes.

Guild Wars 1 was focused. It was a niche game. In some ways Guild Wars 2 is a niche game too, but it’s a much bigger niche.

They dropped the Ball, Vayne.

They snatched defeat from the Jaws of Success and became EveryMMO.

People quit playing games that had all those things you listed to Play GW. It was a gem of innovation for the times.

And still.. with all you listed, GW2 has yet to catch up with a game as old as EQ2 that has truly customizable Guild Halls.. several tiers worth, far more functional Guild Banks and management, Appearance Slots you can slot ANY armor or weapon into, and has had swimming, jumping, and underwater combat since 2005. This game doesn’t even have a configurable UI or particle effect control client side.

I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that EQ2 has flowing capes for.. 21 races.

GW2 has yet to step up to the plate on what they COULD have been.

Just because they didn’t move in the direction you wanted, doesn’t mean they dropped the ball. You’re entitled to an opinion but I’m relatively positive more people have played Guild Wars 2 than have ever played Guild Wars 1.

To me, Guild Wars 1 was a one trick pony. It was mostly about builds. That was it’s real strength. It wasn’t called build wars for nothing.

For PvPers it was probably heaven. But I was a PvEer and I couldn’t give a toss about PvP. I did a bit of it, the light stuff. But it wasn’t my thing and never will be.

Guild Wars 2 fixed a lot of problems for me that Guild Wars 1 had including an open world and the end of pathing. Those were huge for me. And I don’t think I can ever go back to playing an MMO that has static quests again.

I enjoy them both. I hope that’s not a rarity. :\ That being said, there are some basic things in GW1 that confuse me as to why they aren’t in GW2. Build Templates, PvP-Only Characters, A minimap with actual aggro markers (red dots for enemies that are aggro’d) and small stuff like that… but like I said, I still enjoy both games.

Redfeather.6401:

I played several mmorpgs for years before GW and what I loved about GW is did things in a clever way that actually really worked well. That’s really what disappointed me the most about GW2. GW2 opted to copy not only the framework of every other mmorpg, but abandon so many mechanics in the original game that were never broken. Felt like it was merely using the GW brand to create the “same old mmo” experience.

Attribute system – Wasn’t broken, so why change it for something that’s been done to death. The system most mmorpgs use is mind mindbogglingly convoluted and short-sighted and GW2 copied them? Doesn’t make sense.
Equipment system – Wasn’t broken either, and once again it just made no sense to copy how other mmorpgs do it. Other mmorpgs are either just copying what’s already been done or failing miserably at trying to come up with something else that works. And GW found a system that actually worked and was refreshing! Why change it?!
Morale system – Why not use that in the sequel? What was wrong with it?
Secondary Profession – So it was supposedly abandoned because it was hard to balance, yet GW2 is even more imbalanced. That doesn’t add up!
Capping skills – Nobody complained about it, and it was so unique. I just don’t understand.
etc, etc, etc
Whyyyyyyyy?!

There’s a reason why. Because Guild Wars 1 was NOT an MMO. Even Anet said it wasn’t an MMO. And when Guild Wars 2 was conceived, it was conceived as an MMO.

Things that work in a lobby game don’t necessarily work in an MMO.

Comparing a non-MMO to an MMO is doable. I just don’t see the point of doing it.

The OP seems to be among those players who hoped that GW2 was just GW1 with better graphics and converted to an MMO. I think that would have been disappointing — much as I loved GW1, I am glad we got a game that was a sequel to the lore and an evolution of the designers’ ideals and goals for gaming.

As a case in point: I loved GW1’s mesmer. It was one of the most fun profs I’ve played in any video game. The misleadingly-named mesmer in GW2 is a completely different prof and it’s also a lot of fun to play (just not in the same way).

tl;dr the OP is entitled to their preference, however I couldn’t disagree more with their analysis which is predicated entirely on that preference.

As Saturday Night Live used to say “This just in, JFK is still dead.”

Tested GW1 in a friend account to see if I buy it to access the HoM stuff.
Get bored and disgusted in few hours.
Came back to HoT.
Very happy ATM.

Same world as GW and it is the 2ed time they are using this world sounds like a sequel.

Think of it more as a “spiritual” successor, as opposed to an “immediate” successor. After all, the core game is 250 years after the end of GW:EN. Things are bound to change.

LOL White knights on full tilt. The numerous combinations of Gw1 skills made it pretty much impossible to obtain perfect balance…. but it was at least a hell of a lot more competitive then the merry-go round in gw2. 10 set in stone skills but still can’t balance it in a manner that prevents one class rising over the others.

But by all means continue to try to refute the ops’ views when they said their goodbyes. That’ll realllly teach them.

Justine.6351:

The greater crime will be when they shut it down without something in place to ensure it lives on in offline mode.

Gw2 will shutdown before gw1. The cost of keeping gw1 is a fraction of what it cost to keep gw2 up.

DoctorDing.5890:

They could have called it “Not Guild Wars”, given that Guild vs Guild does not seem to be a thing in GW2.

To be fair guild vs guild was an optional and pretty minor feature of GW1 too.

Rukia.9860:

And then that music … all hail Jeremy Soule. And the character design, so beautiful (GW2, go hide).

This alone really diminishes credibility for the OP. Opinion or not, it’s pretty amazing how he talks passionately about Guild Wars 1, and he didn’t even notice a majority of it playing in Guild Wars 2.

It’s always those kind of people making these posts.

[/quote]

Gw2 will shutdown before gw1. The cost of keeping gw1 is a fraction of what it cost to keep gw2 up.[/quote]

They’ll shut down at the same time, since Guild Wars 1 is only run on Guild Wars 2 servers and has been in maintenance most for years.

Guild Wars 2 is a far more polished game engine, better coding, graphics, combat, dynamic world etc.

Guild Wars 1 was a vastly better game.

Vayne.8563:

Redfeather.6401:

I played several mmorpgs for years before GW and what I loved about GW is did things in a clever way that actually really worked well. That’s really what disappointed me the most about GW2. GW2 opted to copy not only the framework of every other mmorpg, but abandon so many mechanics in the original game that were never broken. Felt like it was merely using the GW brand to create the “same old mmo” experience.

Attribute system – Wasn’t broken, so why change it for something that’s been done to death. The system most mmorpgs use is mind mindbogglingly convoluted and short-sighted and GW2 copied them? Doesn’t make sense.
Equipment system – Wasn’t broken either, and once again it just made no sense to copy how other mmorpgs do it. Other mmorpgs are either just copying what’s already been done or failing miserably at trying to come up with something else that works. And GW found a system that actually worked and was refreshing! Why change it?!
Morale system – Why not use that in the sequel? What was wrong with it?
Secondary Profession – So it was supposedly abandoned because it was hard to balance, yet GW2 is even more imbalanced. That doesn’t add up!
Capping skills – Nobody complained about it, and it was so unique. I just don’t understand.
etc, etc, etc
Whyyyyyyyy?!

There’s a reason why. Because Guild Wars 1 was NOT an MMO. Even Anet said it wasn’t an MMO. And when Guild Wars 2 was conceived, it was conceived as an MMO.

Things that work in a lobby game don’t necessarily work in an MMO.

Comparing a non-MMO to an MMO is doable. I just don’t see the point of doing it.

GW2 uses the technology different than GW, but that doesn’t impact a single example in my post.

Redfeather.6401:

Vayne.8563:

Redfeather.6401:

I played several mmorpgs for years before GW and what I loved about GW is did things in a clever way that actually really worked well. That’s really what disappointed me the most about GW2. GW2 opted to copy not only the framework of every other mmorpg, but abandon so many mechanics in the original game that were never broken. Felt like it was merely using the GW brand to create the “same old mmo” experience.

Attribute system – Wasn’t broken, so why change it for something that’s been done to death. The system most mmorpgs use is mind mindbogglingly convoluted and short-sighted and GW2 copied them? Doesn’t make sense.
Equipment system – Wasn’t broken either, and once again it just made no sense to copy how other mmorpgs do it. Other mmorpgs are either just copying what’s already been done or failing miserably at trying to come up with something else that works. And GW found a system that actually worked and was refreshing! Why change it?!
Morale system – Why not use that in the sequel? What was wrong with it?
Secondary Profession – So it was supposedly abandoned because it was hard to balance, yet GW2 is even more imbalanced. That doesn’t add up!
Capping skills – Nobody complained about it, and it was so unique. I just don’t understand.
etc, etc, etc
Whyyyyyyyy?!

There’s a reason why. Because Guild Wars 1 was NOT an MMO. Even Anet said it wasn’t an MMO. And when Guild Wars 2 was conceived, it was conceived as an MMO.

Things that work in a lobby game don’t necessarily work in an MMO.

Comparing a non-MMO to an MMO is doable. I just don’t see the point of doing it.

GW2 uses the technology different than GW, but that doesn’t impact a single example in my post.

But it impacts the game as a whole. What are some of the things people say this miss from Guild Wars 1?

For one thing, heroes and henchmen, so they can solo. Easy to do in a game where you know you’re going to have 8 people doing the content and all the content will ever be seen by 8 people. Hard to do in a zone where they’re might be 50 people at one place, all with a hero using skills. The lag would be tremendous and map caps would have to be dramatically lowered.

Or the way that the creatures in Guild Wars 2 walked in packs that were comprised of different professions, including healers. Again, easy to do, you know there are going to be 8 people even if some of them are AI. But not so easy to do in an MMO where the person who’s coming upon them might be alone and might not be up to that kind of challenge.

The addition of an open world changes the entire thrust of the game on many levels. For example, the amount of time it takes to figure out how events scale (and how hard it is as shown by how many times they’ve had to make adjustments to scaling) is a huge issue.

The thing is, the open world nature takes a lot of programming time and budget, which means other things can’t be done. It affects EVERYTHING.

Did Guild Wars 1 have to be optimized for 120 people all fighting in the same place at the same time, casting spells while moving? Of course it didn’t.

The open world requires a level of optimization and attention that Guild Wars 1 never required. The addition of a Z axis also complicates things.

You may believe your list exists in a vacuum but it doesn’t. Once a game is a true MMO , coding priorities must change by necessity. That’s the way it is.

People see Guild Wars 2 as being more like other MMOs. But Guild Wars 1 was more like a coop game and they didn’t have these other things to worry about. Thus they could divide the resources they have differently.