Guild Wars 2

endersluck.4708:

Maethril.9586:

endersluck.4708:

endersluck.4708:

Maethril.9586:

Better scaling system – I don’t agree. I hated how you scaled automatically to maps lvl when you entered it. Wasn’t fun to mudwrestle 3 drunken lvl 5 rats for 5mins with lvl 80 full exotics character. While in FFXIV you one shot them with lvl cap character.

I never enjoyed the boss fights in ff14 since the bosses are pretty much stationary like in WoW. That part feels really outdated. Also the worst mapping system ever.

The scaling system helps keeps old areas still challenging and relevant. I hated how in WoW that all the awesome areas were completely deserted after an expansion. It’s not perfect, but its a step in the right direction imo.

Plus most areas Are deserted in GW2, though current supermegagigaserver system does make it feel tad more alive.
Only alive areas usually are where people can do champ trains 24/7 and there isnt many of those.

I meant the bosses not the players and stacking wasn’t anet’s intention.

I just did a map completion and there were ppl in every map I was on.

Looking at your sig, why exactly are you still here?

Maethril.9586:

I only come here to read grief texts and laugh at those when I’m bored. :P

& found this topic worthwhile.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

FF14 is clearly designed with the subscription model in mind, and so a lot of grind slips into everything.

Just as GW2 also has a lot of grind in the game. Well, grind or paying real money. At least FF14 doesn’t have anything that requires 250 of a very rare material to craft, which gives you practically nothing except another skin.

Which is a side point, that at least when you grind for something in FF14, you can feel like it was worth it because you’re stronger. I personally made the decision to never get a Legendary because why grind for something that gets me nothing better than Ascended equipment? For the skin? That other people can just drop some real money into gems and convert to gold to buy it off the TP?

That being said, the only thing I’ve ever felt was “grindy” at all in FF14 was getting the Atmas for my weapon. And even then, I got them all in a day.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

First of all, no matter how high you get, you are never too high to go pal around with friends lower level than you. It likes to include people rather than say “oh no, you can’t partake, you’re too awesome”.

I actually would disagree with this. Due to poor party mechanics, it’s really hard for me to play my high levels with low level friends because they need to hit something before it will count for them for hearts or whatever. When I can one-shot practically everything they’re hunting for hearts, even with level scaling, I have to actually just stand there and wait for them to tap something before hitting it or else they don’t get credit. That just makes things boring for me because I have to frequently not do anything.

Maethril.9586:

FATEs (DEs) should automatically scale though, instead of choosing it. That’s bit annoying at times but still only scaling to those is IMO the best way to do it.

I think that the positives of not scaling outweigh the negatives, really. For the price of having to click one button to join in, you can alternatively just run through if you’re not intending on joining in and the mobs won’t aggro onto you because you’re not participating, plus you don’t count for any scaling because you’re not taking part. It’s also a blessing when you’re in your gathering profession and a FATE spawns on top of your nodes.

Ragnarox.9601:

slamfunction.7462:

But the argument is illogical to begin with. GW2 is F2P game with starving devs, while FFXIV is a monthly sub with plenty of resources to craft awesome content. Its like comparing a Smart car to a Nissan 370Z. ROFL

GW2 ss p2p. Plus they made 400-500m pure profit from selling this game (50m from gem store maybe). So if you cant make new dungeons and stuff for 400-500m well then its clearly you dont care bout future of the game and interested only in profit.

Care to share the source on that $500 million profit from initial sales claim?

If we assume 5 million unit sales. Perhaps at an average cost of $70 each. That is $350 million. Revenue not profit.

Now 350 employees. Im sure that the team size varied over the course of the 5 year development period but its the only number we have so lets run with it. The average game dev salary in the region where Anet is located is in the $70k range. Not all of those 350 employees will make that much so lets knock that down to 60k. The cost to employ (payroll taxes, benefits, etc) is as much as 1.3 times base salary so we are back up to $78k for each employee. $78k x 350 employees x 5 years = $136.5 million dollars.

136.5 million in payroll alone on an initial sales revenue of 350 million. Where does your $500m profit come from?

Another heading missed: Growth.

I’m not talking about the playerbase, I’m talking about content. Each major patch, FFXIV adds in a pretty big amount of content, between extensions to the story (and the side stories, including a side story that’s more awesome than GW2’s main story, Hildibrand), new dungeons, new Trials (8-man boss fights) including both hard mode and Extreme mode, plus additional Coil of Bahamut fights. In the last patch, they also added in Rogues, and in the expansion are going to be adding more classes (including Dark Knight) and a new race.

When is the last time GW2 introduced something REALLY new, like a new dungeon or something? Will they ever introduce new classes, like Dervish (please please please and give me scythes please please)? Will they ever introduce new races?

imo GW2 > FFXIV but they do 3 thing that i like :
- gamepad support
- aviable on steam
- aviable on console

The good thing with GW2 is that you can play anything a side so if you like old classsique mmo (wow or everquest) and FF style, you can try it 14 day free.
population look stable

I have been playing ffxiv for close to 2 months now so still very much a noob but I just don’t like the game at all.

Quests are so boring so many follow the pattern of run across map, kill 3 rats, run back, find that you now need to go back across to kill 2 turtles, and then run back. The running constant running back and forth is just tedious and annoying.

The combat is insanely slow. Almost every skill has a 2.5 second cast time except for a few and most of those just give you a passive buff for a few seconds. The skills in general are also not interesting at all. I have been playing the warrior, and all the skills are just “hit enemy with axe” but apply slightly different effects with each skill. There are “combos” but they are really nothing more than if you use these 2 skills in this order they become stronger because reasons….

In gw2 you get way more variety among skills such as leaps, teleports, quick bursty skills, long channeled skills, they not only do different things but they actually feel different. Additionally many combos work not because the game says they do, but because the skill effects have synergy. Yes there are combo fields and finishers but I am referring to things such as bulls charge → frenzy → hundred blades, or rtl → updraft → burning speed →firegrab.

Additionally trying to play with friends can be extremely. This is due to 2 factors; each dungeon needs to be unlocked by specific quests and higher level players doing lower level events are rewarded abysmally. If 2 people want to run a dungeon, even if they are both level appropriate, if one of them hasn’t done the quest to unlock it, it may take a long time for them look up and run through the required quests. At which point the other will probably just give up and do something else or find a pug group if they need it to progress a quest line (often the case). Additionally there is very little incentive for upper level characters to help lower level characters with various quests, fates, and dungeons as the experience and other forms of currency acquired from low level activities is minuscule compared to higher level ones.

Also there isn’t really any build customization other than stats. You have access to all of your skills and there are no sacrifices that you have to make in this regard. Each class is stuck with a certain role with no way to try anything different, warriors and paladins will always be tanks, blackmages and bards will always be dps, whitemages will always be healers, etc.

There certainly are a few advantages that FFXIV does have over gw though. One is the boss encounters are generally a bit more varied and have more mechanics some of which are kind of interesting. Also ff has very nice cut scenes and a long apparently nice story, which I felt compelled to skip most of as I was trying to play with friends who were generally a bit ahead of me in regards to levels and gear. Also raids are pretty cool, at least the first few times. The biggest advantage however is that FF seems to be putting out much more new content on a regular basis.

Then there are a bunch of differences which are purely personal preference. Mainly the FF has a mandatory gear treadmill to access content (gw has fractals but that is it) , and a holy trinity system. Personally I don’t like either of those things but some do.

As someone who played GW2 for nearly 2 years and only recently started playing FFXIV, I find the UI in FFXIV to be more versatile and customizable . The game lets u move around ur UI and set it where ever u want, u can also have up to 10 skill bar and set hot keys for each individual skill/item slot. Plus it has better pet control than GW2

Ragnarox.9601:

GW2 ss p2p. Plus they made 400-500m pure profit from selling this game (50m from gem store maybe). So if you cant make new dungeons and stuff for 400-500m well then its clearly you dont care bout future of the game and interested only in profit.

I disagree. With the cost of the equipment and software licenses on top of wages and benefits, I’m betting that gem store sales is probably just enough to keep the game running at this point. But again, they have no else to blame but themselves on that one. 400-500m may sound like alot, but its not. A “small” business of around 25 employees and a small server farm is right around 100k per month, so thats what i base that on.

Ashen.2907:

Care to share the source on that $500 million profit from initial sales claim?

If we assume 5 million unit sales. Perhaps at an average cost of $70 each. That is $350 million. Revenue not profit.

Now 350 employees. Im sure that the team size varied over the course of the 5 year development period but its the only number we have so lets run with it. The average game dev salary in the region where Anet is located is in the $70k range. Not all of those 350 employees will make that much so lets knock that down to 60k. The cost to employ (payroll taxes, benefits, etc) is as much as 1.3 times base salary so we are back up to $78k for each employee. $78k x 350 employees x 5 years = $136.5 million dollars.

136.5 million in payroll alone on an initial sales revenue of 350 million. Where does your $500m profit come from?

Exactly. Thus why i said what i said. Thats why they are pushing the NPE so hard and not trying to maintain veteran players. If you’re a vet player, playing since retail or beta and you’re not spending $10-$20 a month on gems, you’re basically living in someone’s house for free and eating up all their pizza rolls. lol

But again, if they wanted the money, they’d make good decisions and create content people would want to log in an play, which will feed the gem store. But thats a topic for a different thread thats been been beaten worse than the dead horse, so meh.

My point is, is that you just can’t compare the games at all.

I might as well be saying that Halo is a better game than GW2 because i can shoot things dead and jump all over the place and etc, etc, etc…its just not a valid argument.

IcarusMelody.5312:

@Tobias
The only thing you were spot on though was your issue with p2p. Those other things you mentioned? Not really an issue. The only thing GW2 had on FFXIV for a short while was transmutations and seasonal events. Transmutations were added in the first quarter of the year because people wanted it. Seasonal events GW2 is still king between the two games.

Ah, they are an issue for me. Much like for other people the states of WvW and PvP in GW2 are issues for them.
In GW2 I have other sets of issues which keep me from having fun all the time.

Level syncing is there and you could help a new friend through via dungeons and story encounters. One thing SE is doing though is that the endgame requires strict coordination but that doesnt exclude casuals from enjoying it.

I dunno about that . . .

No, seriously, I don’t know. I haven’t gotten there yet but the guild/FC I’m in has said it’ll take some work to get capable of doing these things. I only know how clunky it seems to work when at events/FATEs.

As they add more and more content for endgame; they indirectly make the older endgame content more accessible to casual players. However they still have to learn fight mechanics.They are also given alternative means to getting better gear via 24 man raids etc. So they can still play dress up even if they are unable to tackle the hardest content in the game.

Yeah, you mistook my point. It’s the note that those armors get statistically better from what I’ve seen, so there’s gear progression. Versus GW2 where you can safely ignore Ascended armor (and are better off doing so).

slamfunction.7462:

But again, if they wanted the money, they’d make good decisions and create content people would want to log in an play, which will feed the gem store. But thats a topic for a different thread thats been been beaten worse than the dead horse, so meh.

It’s also not valid because simply making a good game doesn’t necessarily translate to “profit!” anymore.

Filaha.1678:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

FF14 is clearly designed with the subscription model in mind, and so a lot of grind slips into everything.

Just as GW2 also has a lot of grind in the game. Well, grind or paying real money. At least FF14 doesn’t have anything that requires 250 of a very rare material to craft, which gives you practically nothing except another skin.

Except that’s rather what GW2 was designed for, just like GW1 was designed with it in mind. The appearance game was all there was to really work on after hitting the end of the campaigns/game story.

Which is a side point, that at least when you grind for something in FF14, you can feel like it was worth it because you’re stronger. I personally made the decision to never get a Legendary because why grind for something that gets me nothing better than Ascended equipment? For the skin? That other people can just drop some real money into gems and convert to gold to buy it off the TP?

And I personally made the decision because I’m not nearly lucky enough with drops to get started, and would rather spend time doing other things than fretting over Precursors.

Also you pretty much nailed the same point again – they’re mostly just cosmetics which mean nothing in and of themselves. Which is how it was designed.

That being said, the only thing I’ve ever felt was “grindy” at all in FF14 was getting the Atmas for my weapon. And even then, I got them all in a day.

I’m sorry, I’m at 27 CNJ and it’s not moved more than 10% of the bar when I do quests or hunt down things my level. I am told to do dungeons but I don’t have access to the next one due to it being locked behind a stupid amount of “mail courier” type quests for the Main Scenario which waste my time.

It is a grind doing that, at least for me. I’d rather be leveling, but it’s such a problem to do that at any speed . . .

I actually would disagree with this. Due to poor party mechanics, it’s really hard for me to play my high levels with low level friends because they need to hit something before it will count for them for hearts or whatever. When I can one-shot practically everything they’re hunting for hearts, even with level scaling, I have to actually just stand there and wait for them to tap something before hitting it or else they don’t get credit. That just makes things boring for me because I have to frequently not do anything.

But I can still hop in with them and fool around doing DEs, meta events, or just beating the crap out of asura for their lunch money. Hearts are an interesting design, in the sense of they should work one way but encourage a more personal focus until they clear up – you can’t help someone clear a Heart aside from the “kill X” requirements.

Filaha.1678:

Which is a side point, that at least when you grind for something in FF14, you can feel like it was worth it because you’re stronger.

Only that you also never really get stronger, since next you have to fight against mobs that also are stronger and have more hitpoints, so in the end only the numbers get
bigger .. but in the end its the same to hit a mob with 1000 hps for 100 than hitting
a mob with 10000 hps for 1000 .. you do 10 time more damage .. but in the end
you are not stronger.

And if you really get stronger, people will cry that everything is too easy and that
mobs have to get harder

Beldin.5498:

Filaha.1678:

Which is a side point, that at least when you grind for something in FF14, you can feel like it was worth it because you’re stronger.

Only that you also never really get stronger, since next you have to fight against mobs that also are stronger and have more hitpoints, so in the end only the numbers get
bigger .. but in the end its the same to hit a mob with 1000 hps for 100 than hitting
a mob with 10000 hps for 1000 .. you do 10 time more damage .. but in the end
you are not stronger.

And if you really get stronger, people will cry that everything is too easy and that
mobs have to get harder

Except in the end I am stronger, because I’m still doing more damage than I used to. It’s not like all of the armour and weapons just magically drop onto you as soon as new dungeons are released, so end-game dungeons start out at one difficulty and get easier as you get better equipment. Further, I’m still stronger because I’m not limited to end-game dungeons only and can go back to previous dungeons, which are now easier because I’m stronger.

Still better than farming and grinding for months to get a legendary and end up doing 0 more damage than I did with the ascended weapon I crafted. Also still better to keep upping that ceiling than to stagnate at “This is how hard the game will ever get because you cannot get stronger at all”.

Filaha.1678:

Still better than farming and grinding for months to get a legendary and end up doing 0 more damage than I did with the ascended weapon I crafted.

To each their own. I would find the gear progression alternative to be awful.

Also, I didn’t mention this in regards to the lack of mobs aggroing onto you, which might also explain some of the non-aggro:

FFXIV uses a logical line of sight aggro detection system. If they don’t see you, they don’t attack you. If you run behind them, they don’t see you. There are monsters which logically can see you at all angles, such as things without eyes or things that would smell you, but most monsters need to see you to know you’re there.

They also will aggro more per pull if you’re in a group or outlevel them to a significant degree to deal with the added threat.

Any game that focuses on gear progression isn’t for me… I don’t really care what else the game has or doesn’t.

Very well written, I just get the feeling you haven’t played xiv more than 10 minutes, as stated by other people.

I just can’t understand how someone can prefer the gw2 crafting system over xiv crafting:P

Rather in depth post from the OP.
I have to disagree about the crafting, though. To echo an earlier post:

Crafting – I’m sorry you feel that way about FFXIV’s crafting system. I for one found it to be incredibly deep. When you are crafting something, you feel like each item you make was really tailored by you with all the options you have during the process of crafting it. In GuildWars 2, you buy a recipe, get the mats, hit “Craft”. Kinda boring IMO.
Also, Final Fantasy XIV has fishing

Not that we need “fishing” as a skill in GW2. We can swim and go get them.

I ended up quitting FF14 because it wasn’t very friendly at end-game. The dungeon-grind culture and speed-run nature of it, along with /ugh, DPS queues, it ruined my last few story dungeons.
Lesson to all MMO devs: Do not mix story cutscenes with dungeons. Save it for the end.

But I digress. =P
FF14’s crafting is far superior. It takes it seriously and it doesn’t try to play cutesy hiding games with what I can do. There is synergy between all the crafting classes, and, in the end, you can do anything.
It does take up a ton of space, so GW2 wins for convenience, by far.

Then again, FF14 has minions. Don’t want to farm materials? Make your minions do it.

Copestetic.5174:

Yep, I agree with pretty much everything you said. I’d also like to add, that the PvP scene in FF:XIV is also already dead. Hardly anyone does Arenas ( 4v4 forced 1 Tank, 2 DPS, 1 Healer on each team ) and Frontlines ( 24v24v24 of wtf ever classes going for 3 nodes like in Conquest ) has been on the decline since its release earlier this year.

its all pretty subjective. UI for me is better in ffxiv, perhaps it takes longer to get used to, but your UI does waay more. I actually play with a controller right now, and its pretty awesome i must say. I never even looked for an explanation and i can navigate pretty easily.

• having to equip a lot of stuff, i can see why you would have beef, but the armory system is designed to let you switch proffesions AND gear and skill set up at the touch of a button. therefore ut takes more time to set up. GW2 needs this sorely. But you are right, having such a system would be confusing for noobs. Still i would rather have it than not.
  To put it simply, by using the armory, you will have about 10 times the inventory space of gw2, and be able to swap between different jobs, classes etc with one button press.

• As far as skills, you have more than gw2, but i dont think you will ever need more than 20ish skills, but im not max level yet.

• the map, could be a lot better, but on the plus side, i find myself paying attention to the surroundings way more

• combat, well, GW2 has this way better. I prefer all hits to be guaranteed, smart targeting/attacking without targets. More utility and difference between skills. But once i get to dungeons, i would say FFXIV has better encounter design than you see in most of guild wars. Essentially battles are more well planned out, and the interaction between enemies and player is better in ffxiv, for most monsters/fights.

• graphics/style. yeah ffxiv style is way better. I like some gw stuff, but even with an insane amount of flashy armor, it all still seems pretty unified, and the gear looks kitten good. But, GW2 is pretty good overall.

• travel, yeah its not easy, but i think that is by choice, it makes me more involved with the world. You think, should i teleport? should i walk? should i use mount.

• crafting, ok im sorry byt ffxiv crafting is awesome, recipes make sense, interconnect. You get more exp based on how well you make the item. The crafting is so well weaved into each other, and it enhances gathering greatly. The itemization makes you feel like items have value.

But yeah GW2 has a lot going for it. I too started playing ffxiv recently and there are a couple things gw2 did right, however, im really appreciating how well crafted ffxiv is. The large systems work so well together, like itemization, gathering, crafting, materia, gathering.

IMO the strengths of GW2
personal combat system
Diversity within a proffession
Exploration
Can go almost anywhere on a map/exploration
more interesting dynamic events world

In most of the rest of the categories, currently i would give it to ffxiv.

phys.7689:

graphics/style. yeah ffxiv style is way better. I like some gw stuff, but even with an insane amount of flashy armor, it all still seems pretty unified, and the gear looks kitten good. But, GW2 is pretty good overall.

I miss Limsa Lominsa so much. :\
That area was gorgeous, and I adored the sound score.

…Which is another thing I miss about 14 over GW2. GW2 has some notable pieces and I like them, but FF14 draws me in more. I even ported various combat music to GW2 to enhance my play experience.

I honestly thought “Watdafudge, too much text” but in the end, I enjoyed it. We played FF as well, and we found it not fitting for our taste so we left. It has good graphics and nice trinity thingie, but we played it for less than a week so can’t leave any valid feedback other than some personal observation.

Rauderi.8706:

phys.7689:

graphics/style. yeah ffxiv style is way better. I like some gw stuff, but even with an insane amount of flashy armor, it all still seems pretty unified, and the gear looks kitten good. But, GW2 is pretty good overall.

I miss Limsa Lominsa so much. :\
That area was gorgeous, and I adored the sound score.

…Which is another thing I miss about 14 over GW2. GW2 has some notable pieces and I like them, but FF14 draws me in more. I even ported various combat music to GW2 to enhance my play experience.

yeah they scored gw2 in a very random way. literally, zones have random pools of music to play. Therefore there is very few themed areas/music. The music does not set the theme/feeling of areas, because it is primarily unrelated.

the one thing i DON’T like about GW2 is exactly what the OP sees as a good thing, scaling.
i don’t want my lvl 60 character to feel like a starter character, it needs to feel like i actually am stronger then the rest.
overleveling is a part of a level system such as this, scaling ppl down diminishes the joy and reason of levels and shows that they can just as much remove levels and start using a non-level system.

i rather overlevel then be kicked down just because i am in a lower level area, i think that’s one of the reasons why GW2 feels so empty and distant compare to, let’s say, SW:ToR.
i level to become more powerful, if i reach a certain level it needs to matter.

ArcheAge would be better if it didn’t have the labor system.

As I’ve seen a thread closed for talking about GW1 over GW2, why is this thread not closed?

Zoid.2568:

ArcheAge would be better if it didn’t have the labor system.

It also has a terrible, but lauded, crafting system. =P
At least GW2 let me make stuff as I leveled.

Really though, the Labor Points thing is just a way to force a subscription so you can be a Sponsor. …Yay, free-to-play. After ArcheAge, I don’t wanna hear anyone complain that GW2 is a money-grab.

Zoid.2568:

ArcheAge would be better if it didn’t have the labor system.

archeage has generic quests with a horrible battle system, it’s miles from being better.

sorudo.9054:

Zoid.2568:

ArcheAge would be better if it didn’t have the labor system.

archeage has generic quests with a horrible battle system, it’s miles from being better.

Im not a huge fan of the combat there either but I have heard that the devs went for a traditional combat system on-purpose. There are people who aren’t fans of action combat and prefers oldschool MMO tab-targeting.

sorudo.9054:

the one thing i DON’T like about GW2 is exactly what the OP sees as a good thing, scaling.
i don’t want my lvl 60 character to feel like a starter character, it needs to feel like i actually am stronger then the rest.
overleveling is a part of a level system such as this, scaling ppl down diminishes the joy and reason of levels and shows that they can just as much remove levels and start using a non-level system.

i rather overlevel then be kicked down just because i am in a lower level area, i think that’s one of the reasons why GW2 feels so empty and distant compare to, let’s say, SW:ToR.
i level to become more powerful, if i reach a certain level it needs to matter.

You see the problem with not having scaling is that dead content becomes inevitable. If you outlevel content when there’s no scaling, you’ll obliterate that content. If you can obliterate that content then obviously the rewards can’t be good. If the rewards aren’t good then no one does the content.

If a piece of content is inevitably doing to be dead, then the developers won’t bother putting effort into it. That’s why the middle parts of most MMOs are incredibly boring.

sorudo.9054:

the one thing i DON’T like about GW2 is exactly what the OP sees as a good thing, scaling.
i don’t want my lvl 60 character to feel like a starter character, it needs to feel like i actually am stronger then the rest.
overleveling is a part of a level system such as this, scaling ppl down diminishes the joy and reason of levels and shows that they can just as much remove levels and start using a non-level system.

i rather overlevel then be kicked down just because i am in a lower level area, i think that’s one of the reasons why GW2 feels so empty and distant compare to, let’s say, SW:ToR.
i level to become more powerful, if i reach a certain level it needs to matter.

When I take my level 80s to low level zones they one or two shot everything. I generally don’t need to dodge or use my self heal,. I can aggro far more foes than was the case when my characters were at level for the zone. In every way my character is much more powerful than was the case at level for these zones. I feel bad when dailies put me in events in low level zones because 80s are so much more powerful than lower level characters that its not uncommon to see lower level characters struggle to participate.

It really feels as if the only way max level characters in low level zones could be more powerful relative to the local mobs than is already the case would be for the mobs to faint and die just from looking at the characters.

Ashen.2907:

sorudo.9054:

the one thing i DON’T like about GW2 is exactly what the OP sees as a good thing, scaling.
i don’t want my lvl 60 character to feel like a starter character, it needs to feel like i actually am stronger then the rest.
overleveling is a part of a level system such as this, scaling ppl down diminishes the joy and reason of levels and shows that they can just as much remove levels and start using a non-level system.

i rather overlevel then be kicked down just because i am in a lower level area, i think that’s one of the reasons why GW2 feels so empty and distant compare to, let’s say, SW:ToR.
i level to become more powerful, if i reach a certain level it needs to matter.

When I take my level 80s to low level zones they one or two shot everything. I generally don’t need to dodge or use my self heal,. I can aggro far more foes than was the case when my characters were at level for the zone. In every way my character is much more powerful than was the case at level for these zones. I feel bad when dailies put me in events in low level zones because 80s are so much more powerful than lower level characters that its not uncommon to see lower level characters struggle to participate.

It really feels as if the only way max level characters in low level zones could be more powerful relative to the local mobs than is already the case would be for the mobs to faint and die just from looking at the characters.

Truth. Since the NPE hit, the mobs are absolutely no match for characters outside their level range. I sometimes hold myself back during events so that other people can tag mobs in low-level zones.

Rauderi.8706:

I sometimes hold myself back during events so that other people can tag mobs in low-level zones.

Yeah, I’ve taken the approach of waiting until mobs are half health or so before starting to attack.

I like the idea of downscaling so that all content is (in theory) available for play at max level. I do wish that the system worked better.

Then again I understand the concerns raised by Sorudo as well. I think that this is one of those kitten ed if you do and kitten ed if you don’t situations.

Ashen.2907:

Rauderi.8706:

I sometimes hold myself back during events so that other people can tag mobs in low-level zones.

Yeah, I’ve taken the approach of waiting until mobs are half health or so before starting to attack.

I like the idea of downscaling so that all content is (in theory) available for play at max level. I do wish that the system worked better.

Then again I understand the concerns raised by Sorudo as well. I think that this is one of those kitten ed if you do and kitten ed if you don’t situations.

I do consider it a perk for being higher level, even if I get downgraded. It means I don’t completely invalidate the event.

And thankfully GW2 isn’t like FF14 about down-scaling. FF14 makes you drop your skills. >_> Could you imagine doing a level 8 event with only, what, 3 weapon skills and maybe one utility? /cry

Rauderi.8706:

I do consider it a perk for being higher level, even if I get downgraded. It means I don’t completely invalidate the event.

And thankfully GW2 isn’t like FF14 about down-scaling. FF14 makes you drop your skills. >_> Could you imagine doing a level 8 event with only, what, 3 weapon skills and maybe one utility? /cry

Yeah, that is to make sure that even if your level is downscaled, you can’t use your overpowerd high-level skill rotations so you still overpower the new players. Litteraly everyone is the same in those events.

Illuminati.2431:

Rauderi.8706:

I do consider it a perk for being higher level, even if I get downgraded. It means I don’t completely invalidate the event.

And thankfully GW2 isn’t like FF14 about down-scaling. FF14 makes you drop your skills. >_> Could you imagine doing a level 8 event with only, what, 3 weapon skills and maybe one utility? /cry

Yeah, that is to make sure that even if your level is downscaled, you can’t use your overpowerd high-level skill rotations so you still overpower the new players. Litteraly everyone is the same in those events.

Except they don’t adjust your gear stats very well, so you are still quite overpowered for lower level events.

what kills ff14 for me is that grinding there is torture…I m actually an high end hardcore raider type player(cleared T9). but that grinding for animus/novus/nexus weapon is really aweful.u have to stand at specific spots for like 2hrs or even 4hrs each doing nothing to wait some thing spawn. I mean doing nothing but pay attention to ur screen so u can get something down in 10min or another 2-4hrs waiting ahead .u need to do this stuff repeatedly 9times to get animus weapon.thus sums to 18-36hrs staring ur screen while u cant do anything but wait.and this even not the worst part.cuz after u got animus weapon there are novus and nexus ahead.they are much more harder.someone may compare this to legendary weapons in gw2 but that’s totally a different things. at least u have something to do when u grinding not staring ur pc like idiots for 20+hrs repeatedly .kitten its not a game,its torture

Glory.1493:

what kills ff14 for me is that grinding there is torture…I m actually an high end hardcore raider type player(cleared T9). but that grinding for animus/novus/nexus weapon is really aweful.u have to stand at specific spots for like 2hrs or even 4hrs each doing nothing to wait some thing spawn. I mean doing nothing but pay attention to ur screen so u can get something down in 10min or another 2-4hrs waiting ahead .u need to do this stuff repeatedly 9times to get animus weapon.thus sums to 18-36hrs staring ur screen while u cant do anything but wait.and this even not the worst part.cuz after u got animus weapon there are novus and nexus ahead.they are much more harder.someone may compare this to legendary weapons in gw2 but that’s totally a different things. at least u have something to do when u grinding not staring ur pc like idiots for 20+hrs repeatedly .kitten its not a game,its torture

You could always go do your monster kills for the Trials and teleport back in between to see if it’s up.

Or you could do what I did and minimize game and do something else while listening for the completely obvious FATE music, or play something on a handheld.

Edit: However, I would still give that point to FFXIV. Because at least for my Trials, I can solo them except for dungeons, which are easy to get. To get map completion here to get a required item for crafting a legendary, I pretty much needed to actually switch servers to get the WvW map completions.

You automatically get screwed on those if you happened to pick a small server that just gets trounced.

Glory.1493:

what kills ff14 for me is that grinding there is torture…I m actually an high end hardcore raider type player(cleared T9). but that grinding for animus/novus/nexus weapon is really aweful.u have to stand at specific spots for like 2hrs or even 4hrs each doing nothing to wait some thing spawn. I mean doing nothing but pay attention to ur screen so u can get something down in 10min or another 2-4hrs waiting ahead .u need to do this stuff repeatedly 9times to get animus weapon.thus sums to 18-36hrs staring ur screen while u cant do anything but wait.and this even not the worst part.cuz after u got animus weapon there are novus and nexus ahead.they are much more harder.someone may compare this to legendary weapons in gw2 but that’s totally a different things. at least u have something to do when u grinding not staring ur pc like idiots for 20+hrs repeatedly .kitten its not a game,its torture

while I have to say ff14 has more player base for now. maybe human nature needs grind somehow. all that I told myself when I play ff14 was I need better gear so I can fight harder and get more better gears. once ppl reach that point when there is no gear to pursue .there comes an expansion.so after done this 1or 2 times u may see clearly that you been played by numbers and stats. I m very much appreciate that anet stand in their ground not bring gear progression. its hard to stick to this while everybody doing the opposite. I know without gear progression it wont get players stick to games like life being ruined. maybe it can not reach the goals set by founder devs due to lack of revenue after 2years .gw2 still marked itself on mmo history cuz they chose the lonely path even they knew its gonna earning less money.
sry for bad English

Filaha.1678:

Glory.1493:

what kills ff14 for me is that grinding there is torture…I m actually an high end hardcore raider type player(cleared T9). but that grinding for animus/novus/nexus weapon is really aweful.u have to stand at specific spots for like 2hrs or even 4hrs each doing nothing to wait some thing spawn. I mean doing nothing but pay attention to ur screen so u can get something down in 10min or another 2-4hrs waiting ahead .u need to do this stuff repeatedly 9times to get animus weapon.thus sums to 18-36hrs staring ur screen while u cant do anything but wait.and this even not the worst part.cuz after u got animus weapon there are novus and nexus ahead.they are much more harder.someone may compare this to legendary weapons in gw2 but that’s totally a different things. at least u have something to do when u grinding not staring ur pc like idiots for 20+hrs repeatedly .kitten its not a game,its torture

You could always go do your monster kills for the Trials and teleport back in between to see if it’s up.

Or you could do what I did and minimize game and do something else while listening for the completely obvious FATE music, or play something on a handheld.

Edit: However, I would still give that point to FFXIV. Because at least for my Trials, I can solo them except for dungeons, which are easy to get. To get map completion here to get a required item for crafting a legendary, I pretty much needed to actually switch servers to get the WvW map completions.

You automatically get screwed on those if you happened to pick a small server that just gets trounced.

u are right about legendries .but they are not same thing.its between wants and needs. you need a nexus weapon cuz it has better stats. But u don’t need legendary cuz u can have ascended instead. u may want it . u don’t need it.so even I have to grind the same thing in gw2 I wont feel tortured. I can do it whenever I feel like doing it but in ff14 u must do it or u cant get better

Filaha.1678:

Also, I didn’t mention this in regards to the lack of mobs aggroing onto you, which might also explain some of the non-aggro:

FFXIV uses a logical line of sight aggro detection system. If they don’t see you, they don’t attack you. If you run behind them, they don’t see you. There are monsters which logically can see you at all angles, such as things without eyes or things that would smell you, but most monsters need to see you to know you’re there.

They also will aggro more per pull if you’re in a group or outlevel them to a significant degree to deal with the added threat.

This is nothing new to FF. It could be seen as pretty interesting and logical in some cases and a pain in the kitten other times. I bet they also have monsters that will aggro you if your HP is low as well.

sorudo.9054:

the one thing i DON’T like about GW2 is exactly what the OP sees as a good thing, scaling.
i don’t want my lvl 60 character to feel like a starter character, it needs to feel like i actually am stronger then the rest.
overleveling is a part of a level system such as this, scaling ppl down diminishes the joy and reason of levels and shows that they can just as much remove levels and start using a non-level system

i rather overlevel then be kicked down just because i am in a lower level area, i think that’s one of the reasons why GW2 feels so empty and distant compare to, let’s say, SW:ToR.
i level to become more powerful, if i reach a certain level it needs to matter.

Even with downscaling, low level zones are so freakin easy. If you have a class that has pets like ranger/necro, you can literally afk (aka you’re out and eating snacks away from PC) and your pets will kill everything except maybe champ and few vets.

The same for class with auto-heal like Warrior, you can leave your char and the mobs wont be able to kill you. And if you have retal, the mobs kill themselves.

tl;dr: scaling is fine, it’s been nerfed down too that if you’re lv80 you basically kill them without lifting your weapon. if you still have problems, just l2p.

Glory.1493:

what kills ff14 for me is that grinding there is torture…I m actually an high end hardcore raider type player(cleared T9). but that grinding for animus/novus/nexus weapon is really aweful.u have to stand at specific spots for like 2hrs or even 4hrs each doing nothing to wait some thing spawn. I mean doing nothing but pay attention to ur screen so u can get something down in 10min or another 2-4hrs waiting ahead .u need to do this stuff repeatedly 9times to get animus weapon.thus sums to 18-36hrs staring ur screen while u cant do anything but wait.and this even not the worst part.cuz after u got animus weapon there are novus and nexus ahead.they are much more harder.someone may compare this to legendary weapons in gw2 but that’s totally a different things. at least u have something to do when u grinding not staring ur pc like idiots for 20+hrs repeatedly .kitten its not a game,its torture

Hah, I knew there was a side people weren’t talking about! This sounds very familiar with their last MMO and the purpose of my initial post in the game. If you are a casual player, sitting at the game for any period of 3 or more hours just isn’t viable and yet SE will want you to do just that and then some to accomplish these goals.

By how people were describing the game, I was actually starting to weaken and consider researching it further but frankly, all I have to do is watch people play it on youtube and I’ll be content.

Glory.1493:

Filaha.1678:

Glory.1493:

what kills ff14 for me is that grinding there is torture…I m actually an high end hardcore raider type player(cleared T9). but that grinding for animus/novus/nexus weapon is really aweful.u have to stand at specific spots for like 2hrs or even 4hrs each doing nothing to wait some thing spawn. I mean doing nothing but pay attention to ur screen so u can get something down in 10min or another 2-4hrs waiting ahead .u need to do this stuff repeatedly 9times to get animus weapon.thus sums to 18-36hrs staring ur screen while u cant do anything but wait.and this even not the worst part.cuz after u got animus weapon there are novus and nexus ahead.they are much more harder.someone may compare this to legendary weapons in gw2 but that’s totally a different things. at least u have something to do when u grinding not staring ur pc like idiots for 20+hrs repeatedly .kitten its not a game,its torture

You could always go do your monster kills for the Trials and teleport back in between to see if it’s up.

Or you could do what I did and minimize game and do something else while listening for the completely obvious FATE music, or play something on a handheld.

Edit: However, I would still give that point to FFXIV. Because at least for my Trials, I can solo them except for dungeons, which are easy to get. To get map completion here to get a required item for crafting a legendary, I pretty much needed to actually switch servers to get the WvW map completions.

You automatically get screwed on those if you happened to pick a small server that just gets trounced.

u are right about legendries .but they are not same thing.its between wants and needs. you need a nexus weapon cuz it has better stats. But u don’t need legendary cuz u can have ascended instead. u may want it . u don’t need it.so even I have to grind the same thing in gw2 I wont feel tortured. I can do it whenever I feel like doing it but in ff14 u must do it or u cant get better

No you don’t. Even the Ironworks weapons are currently better than the Nexus weapons in pure numbers. Nexus is i115, Ironworks starts at i120 and upgrades to i130. The only plus that Nexus weapons have going for them is that you can pick the secondary stats. Dreadwyrm is i135.

So no, you don’t need to get a Nexus. In less work, you could probably get at least the Ironworks weapon.

Leo G.4501:

Glory.1493:

what kills ff14 for me is that grinding there is torture…I m actually an high end hardcore raider type player(cleared T9). but that grinding for animus/novus/nexus weapon is really aweful.u have to stand at specific spots for like 2hrs or even 4hrs each doing nothing to wait some thing spawn. I mean doing nothing but pay attention to ur screen so u can get something down in 10min or another 2-4hrs waiting ahead .u need to do this stuff repeatedly 9times to get animus weapon.thus sums to 18-36hrs staring ur screen while u cant do anything but wait.and this even not the worst part.cuz after u got animus weapon there are novus and nexus ahead.they are much more harder.someone may compare this to legendary weapons in gw2 but that’s totally a different things. at least u have something to do when u grinding not staring ur pc like idiots for 20+hrs repeatedly .kitten its not a game,its torture

Hah, I knew there was a side people weren’t talking about! This sounds very familiar with their last MMO and the purpose of my initial post in the game. If you are a casual player, sitting at the game for any period of 3 or more hours just isn’t viable and yet SE will want you to do just that and then some to accomplish these goals.

By how people were describing the game, I was actually starting to weaken and consider researching it further but frankly, all I have to do is watch people play it on youtube and I’ll be content.

Nah, its been mentioned theres a hardcore and a casual side for players. Take a guess at the quest hes talking about is considered? They always have alternatives to obtaining gear so that players do not get left behind. He isnt doing it because he HAS to but because he has the option too.

IcarusMelody.5312:

Nah, its been mentioned theres a hardcore and a casual side for players. Take a guess at the quest hes talking about is considered? They always have alternatives to obtaining gear so that players do not get left behind. He isnt doing it because he HAS to but because he has the option too.

Still trying to level my Conjurer past 28 without spending hours killing or running Levequests, it takes hours to advance the main story sometimes with all the backtracking and “go talk to X, deliver X, or go investigate X spots”.

It’s tedious to me, and it does fit my definition of “grinding”. I could, surely, slide over to a class I don’t have yet and work on it but once I hit 20 it starts slowing down rapidly. I mean, I could throw money at crafting classes too, and I find the crafting style pretty interesting.

. . . but to actually advance? Ergh. It was painful this last round (between Ifrit and Thousand Maws, for anyone who plays).

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IcarusMelody.5312:

Nah, its been mentioned theres a hardcore and a casual side for players. Take a guess at the quest hes talking about is considered? They always have alternatives to obtaining gear so that players do not get left behind. He isnt doing it because he HAS to but because he has the option too.

Still trying to level my Conjurer past 28 without spending hours killing or running Levequests, it takes hours to advance the main story sometimes with all the backtracking and “go talk to X, deliver X, or go investigate X spots”.

It’s tedious to me, and it does fit my definition of “grinding”. I could, surely, slide over to a class I don’t have yet and work on it but once I hit 20 it starts slowing down rapidly. I mean, I could throw money at crafting classes too, and I find the crafting style pretty interesting.

. . . but to actually advance? Ergh. It was painful this last round (between Ifrit and Thousand Maws, for anyone who plays).

Well to be fair I wont disagree with the story scenario bit but believe me reaching the finale pays off way more than it did in GW2’s 1-80 story with zhaitan fight. Of course it has its moments before that as well.

However the fastest way of leveling is running any dungeons because the exp reward for clearing scales to your level and the daily bonus for it speeds up the leveling process. Leves/fates/hunting log are there for you to complete while waiting in queue. The first class to level cap is the slowest, but anything you play lower than your highest level gains an xp boost and can reach cap considerably faster.

Man I wish leveling via dungeons wasnt largely looked down upon in GW2 without needing your lvl80 to do everything first before swapping out. I liked the challenge that was in dungeons at the level you unlocked them at. Folks have runned them so many times though that most have zero patience for it :x

Is it maybe a bit silly to argue about this? I haven’t played FF but from what I can see in the YouTube videos it looks very different to Guild Wars 2, so some people will prefer one over the other – or (shock horror) you could like both and play both. No need to be polarised about it.

For me, FF just looks immensely cheesy.. from the overly breathy dialog, to the music and graphics, but that’s just me – others may love that. (Disclaimer: I realise that may be slightly unfair having not played it – my point is that people like different things).

I tried Tera and initially the animation put me right off, especially the way the Castanics ran – but I got into it after a while and grew to like the animation, though its telling that I’ve not played it much for a while. If I sit down and want to quickly play something, I’ll go into GW2 and play PvP. If I want to have a long game and relax I’ll do some dungeons or the living story. There are plenty of things that annoy me about GW2 though.. But I love the animation and combat system, and enjoying the story at the moment.

I also tried ArcheAge – I haven’t been that disappointed for a long time! But again, others took to it.

I played FFXIV.

GW2 doesn’t look or act like Final Fantasy. GW2 puts me in mind of if Everquest and WoW had a baby together.

I left FFXIV because of update lag. That world felt smallish. I could walk to all the beginner zones in minutes. So pretty, laggy, and small. I liked Mantras but SE should have listened to us in FFXI and added them there. FFXI should be f2p by now but SE is to proud.

I am loving GW2’s huge map. That’s what makes it feel more like Everquest. It’s coloring that looks WoWish. Of course on a Windows Vista I have to have graphics at lowest sadly.

Drow.2081:

(snip)
I am loving GW2’s huge map. That’s what makes it feel more like Everquest. It’s coloring that looks WoWish. Of course on a Windows Vista I have to have graphics at lowest sadly.

The version of Windows does not (or should not) have anything to do with the game performance and therefore what graphics setting you can use. It is solely down to your hardware (CPU/Graphics Card).

Unfortunately GW2 is not designed in the most optimal way so you do tend to need more power compared to similar games.

At this time I would probably pay for a well written comparison of high end PvE in both games. I recently bought FF:XIV because I honestly thought I was done with GW2. I even left the top tier PvE guild I had joined after mere weeks since I was ready to jump ship. Switching from one MMO to another, for someone who has been no-lifing GW2 for a year now (and playing for two), is quite the task. I am a hardcore PvE player so that’s the only thing I am looking for in another game.

I had done my research so I had a rough idea of what FF:XIV is about, especially in terms of raids and dungeons. What none of the videos, commentaries or reviews could prepare me for however, was how the game felt. This is actually a really important topic and it’s something that is often not mentioned in professional reviews, probably since it’s so hard to describe.

In GW2 you have this responsive, agile combat system. It’s a bit like playing a standard 3rd person RPG with some tab targetting injected. FF:XIV felt like I was steering a huge cargo ship through sludge. No dodging, just repositioning yourself and a very strange feeling of being on ice skates. Apparently this is server lag and an intended thing or maybe it has to do with the game’s engine. It just felt really weird and unresponsive. So there I was spamming my skill rotations and just casually walking out of AoEs. This was a very big negative. In a game in which I will spend the majority of my time fighting things, having a combat system that feels so strange that I actually notice it right from the start, is not a very promising beginning.

Anyhow, I stopped playing after a couple of hours and went back to my safe zone GW2. In addition to the combat and responsiveness the graphics were also rather underwhelming. Extremely low res textures (console compatibility says hello?) and a somewhat sterile art design didn’t add to my pleasure.

I never got to see any dungeons or raids but from what I read it’s primarily about learning encounters and having the gear. This may sound trivial but what I mean by this is that the difficulty, according to streamers/reddit/enix forums is not about blocking, dodging and general skill but simply knowing when a) happens everyone go to spot b). When boss does attack #1 all gather up on tank. When players #3 and #7 have debuff x they have to move to the east and west circle. Feels very … artificial, but maybe I am wrong. What this means is that an extremely skilled player can’t just transfer his knowledge over to the next dungeon but rather has to learn & wipe everything from scratch. To a certain extent that’s the case with anything but in GW2 there is a noticable level of skill transfer over to unknown content.

So … long story short (early morning, I am bored, SORRY! Q_Q) I’d like to give the game another chance but for that I’d need an equally ambitious, like minded, hardcore PvE player give me a small comparison with some strong points in favor of FF:XIV.