Guild Wars 2

I’m about to lvl my 6th character to 80, and I’ve tried dozen of builds on every class.

The biggest lesson I’ve learned in this game is that the current state of balance highly favors offense over defense.

This, in a nutshell, means Berserker’s, Rampager’s, Assassin’s, etc. or some mix of those.

There is the bunker-condition build, which is interesting, but I believe that in the end, the full DPS builds always win out in every situation.

This is a hard lesson to learn while you’re leveling – the game presents so many choices, and so many gear sets, that you always believe that it’s possible to make some non-standard build that incorporates a defensive element into it.

This is not so.

At best, what you do is get a little defense from your ‘off’ offensive stat – for example, my Ele is 30/20/20/0/0 – I get some toughness from the 20 in Earth Magic, but this is coincidental, since I am taking it for the condition damage, not the toughness.

Likewise, I found in any class, first trait for maximum dmg (Power+Cond+Precision, or in rare cases, Pow+Prec+Crit) and stack as much Might and Vulnerability as you can – toss in a Condition, doesn’t matter which one, Bleeding if you’re a Thief, Burning if you’re an Ele or Ranger, and so on, and just hit hard, hit often.

This, currently, is how Anet wants everyone to play.

For PvE this is largely true, especially if you are very familiar with the content.

But I do remember when the game launched and MANY people struggled with the dungeons. But yeah, as people for more familiar with the game paterns evolved and what seemed difficult before is now either skipped or bursted down.

Given PvE’s emphasis on dodging as the main form of damage avoidance this isn’t surprising. No class is really built to take the damage bosses throw at you so you might as well go full DPS. At least that add something beneficial.

But in sPvP the entire game-mode favors bunkers builds and ones with lots of staying power.

Pve = Play berserker or quit party.
Tpvp = Bunkers ftw.
Wvw = play what you want, it’s already a chaos of zergs.

I agree, i find most of the game offensive.

I definitely agree that I don’t care for the offensive style of PVE in GW2. I’ve always been a fan of defensive play, but building for defense is utterly useless in most GW2 PVE atm.

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

ipan.4356:

Likewise, I found in any class, first trait for maximum dmg (Power+Cond+Precision, or in rare cases, Pow+Prec+Crit)…

Just highlighting this, because Power, Prec and Crit is actually the best for damage not the rare case. One of this game selling base was that it went away from the trinity of Tank, Healer, DPS. Survival for the most part is on your own, there are specs that would greatly heal the party or take a ton of punishment. What would be the point though? In other games, WoW, for example Tank characters and Healers are required in almost every PvE scenario aside from questing, if it weren’t then people wouldn’t bothered to even play those, even towards the end of an expansion people will start running DPS builds for tanking and hybrid DPS healer builds for healing to get through the dungeons faster. Speed is the reward in those cases.

There is nothing stopping you from playing tanky or healer character if you and/or your party thinks its needed in a run, but aside from ultra lazy and not wanting to dodge I see no point in upping your passive survivabilty. Gear choices seems to be more for the multiple builds used in WvW more than it is for PvE. Even then WvW and PvP in general, as you and your guild/group gets more competent the more you can move towards a more DPS heavy builds. In the Ultra early days full serker was cool in WvW cause not everyone got 80 and fully geared, everyone was still learning the game so you got away with it, then suddenly it shifted to the PvT/Cleric for zerging, and then now back to leaning on offensive with defense on the active role vice passive.

The game is fine as it is – why did you even make this thread? it’s not suggesting anything.

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

Mimizu.7340:

I agree, i find most of the game offensive.

I had to chuckle a bit at that one.

noelclover.9408:

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

People only see the damage, sadly, the chill, blinds, cripples, dazes and so on is extremely good support but when people think support they (most often not always) thinks about either healing or tanking but support comes from way many more sources as said, boons, blinds, aegis, chill, cripple, weakness, knowckdown, knockbacks and so on.

In Pve it is really boring actually. All any player needs to know is that your gear 99% of the time should be Berserker (or zerker / assassins mix) with scholar runes. Zerker trinkets.

Would love this to change but I doubt that will ever happen.

Azzer.8137:

noelclover.9408:

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

People only see the damage, sadly, the chill, blinds, cripples, dazes and so on is extremely good support but when people think support they (most often not always) thinks about either healing or tanking but support comes from way many more sources as said, boons, blinds, aegis, chill, cripple, weakness, knowckdown, knockbacks and so on.

^^^Agreed. Support, in this game, can be as much about conditions/cc as it is healing. Root that mob in place so the zerker at your side can DPS it to death. It’s just a different kind of support, but it plays a massive role. Blinds, especially – that’s a great one for when you’re out of dodges while your endurance refills. If that’s not supporting, I don’t know what else is, but it’s also surviving, so it works for solo play as well, rather than a group heal that is only really useful in groups.

Mimizu.7340:

I agree, i find most of the game offensive.

It is the search for the most “press key to win” build, actually some classes really got them.
At the end every one is playing the same builds (stats and weapons).

Problem with PvE design is, why run/find support if you all could contribute killing it faster than it can say “waaah”?

PVE could be greatly improved with some simple points for bosses (and generaly any mob)

- Give all bosses a stomp move that he uses if everyone in a party is packed over him stunning the players
- Give all bosses a pull move that he uses if everyone in a party is too far
- Remove resistance to stuns/dazes/fear (at least in dungeons)
- Remove condition stack cap (at least in dungeons)
- give them endurance like players and the AI to dodge any AOE

Then and only then we can make meaningful roles for PVE other than pure direct DPS. Until then, PVE = packed hit and dodge and explosions over fire combo zones.

Umut.5471:

Pve = Play berserker or quit party.
Tpvp = Bunkers ftw.
Wvw = play what you want, it’s already a chaos of zergs.

This could not be more true.

@BeoErgon.9107:

No, no, and no.
If you give to each boss the same identical mechanism, it’s stupid to have different boss.
If immunity became useless against boss, they became useless in the whole game because you don’t need them for trash mobs.

But I agree that mechanism that prevent pack of full static zerk will allow much diversity. A boss much have at least one skill that can’t be completely dodge by rolling.
Examples :
- Perma poison
- Regular waves (from the boss or to the boss)
- Damaging aura for closer player
- Survival phase when the boss go berzerk
- Adds that are a real threat not just “shoot them casually and go back on the boss”
- Undodgeable shoot (If no one is shoot, the skill have a dramatic issue instead).

The regular waves thing can be “freeze” to give time to jump over each wave.

For strong defined role, it will kill the game diversity and cleave players. “Oh you’re a [role X], we need a [role Y], you can’t come”. Currently you can adapt you’re role by changing your utilities and (partially alas) by changing weapon.
These rotten traits “-20% cooldown for weapon X” can disallow this if the trait isn’t in the good trait row.
Changing role must be a matter of utilities/weapon/traits (in a system where traits isn’t tied to traits row).

Lulz. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-combat-is-broken/page/2#post3459870

@Kulvar.1239
You misunderstood me.

I was talking to remove immunity from bosses, not from players. I was talking about getting rid of the defiant boon that removes any interest of one of the development branches for players : control.

And about bosses being the same… it is not needed to be the exactly same attack, but all the bosses should get rid of the annoying flies glued to their shoes by kicking them away.

And about roles…
I tend to differ from you even if at first I thought the same.
To have any other roles other that DPS to be meaningful and allow players to play “how they like”, this game needs to make those roles ‘needed’.
As long as nothing else than pure dps is needed, why bother? I played support mesmer for a long time. I liked the idea… until I noticed that my heals, my boons, my resistance meant nothing and were useless in most cases. The party could as well have gone without me.
Yes, the support role exists, and the control role too. But if they are not needed they loose all interest. 5 dps players can do it all, and quicker and do not feel like wasting half of their skills.

gameplay has to change and make other roles ‘needed’ or at least ‘significant’ (like making the effect of the boons count for real).

I apologises for the misunderstanding.

What I call “strong defined role” is that you can’t go support or control or pure DPS because of an adamant system. Support or Control must be a question of skill selection (weapons & utilities) more than gear stats. If not, you can fall in a bad behaviour where people reject players because they don’t fit the role needed.

If it’s only which skill you’re using, anyone in the party can take a more support or control role for the fight by switching is utilities. If no one can do the “full support way”, everyone can partially go support and teamwork will balance this.

I tend to play with my friends, and if one don’t fit in the “needing role”, I’ll have a bad taste in the mouth if we can’t just switch some utilities and have to reject him/her.

Also a flexible mechanism allow to switch all along the road to adapt to each encounter. First boss need control ? Everyone take at least one control skill. Last boss need support ? Everyone take at least two support skill !
On player love to support and an other is bad at supporting ? Not a problem too !

My husband and I play in tandem, and I can honestly say it’s not straight out dps for both of us. I find I play more of a defensive / support role, while he does more of the damage. Obviously I still do some, but my numbers aren’t has high. While he’s dishing the damage, I’m mitigating the damage he’s taking with blinds, with knockbacks when he’s incapacitated (maybe he got stunned, but doesn’t have a stun breaker ready for example), with chills to slow down the special need-to-be-dodged attacks, with reflects to keep the additional ranged foes at bay until we’re done with the one we’re working on (or to keep them off me), etc etc.

When we 3 man dungeons with a guildie, normally I play my mesmer and use my illusions as defense and mitigation…if the boss is hitting them, he isn’t hitting my teammates. When the boss switches to my teammates, I can shatter for daze and redirect his attention (usually) to myself and then to my clones.

Mimizu.7340:

I agree, i find most of the game offensive.

/15 character limit

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

My husband and I play in tandem, and I can honestly say it’s not straight out dps for both of us. I find I play more of a defensive / support role, while he does more of the damage. Obviously I still do some, but my numbers aren’t has high. While he’s dishing the damage, I’m mitigating the damage he’s taking with blinds, with knockbacks when he’s incapacitated (maybe he got stunned, but doesn’t have a stun breaker ready for example), with chills to slow down the special need-to-be-dodged attacks, with reflects to keep the additional ranged foes at bay until we’re done with the one we’re working on (or to keep them off me), etc etc.

When we 3 man dungeons with a guildie, normally I play my mesmer and use my illusions as defense and mitigation…if the boss is hitting them, he isn’t hitting my teammates. When the boss switches to my teammates, I can shatter for daze and redirect his attention (usually) to myself and then to my clones.

Wouldn’t it make more sense to ball up the melee and ranged mobs with temporal curtain, drop a feedback so that any projectiles they fire are reflected and then just cleave them down in melee together?

It’s as simple as that:

Holy Trinity: Tank, Heal, DPS
No Holy Trinity: DPS

That’s what is left. So DPS is the only way. After more than a year almost every single class ends up with Berserker Gear.

mahariel.4981:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

My husband and I play in tandem, and I can honestly say it’s not straight out dps for both of us. I find I play more of a defensive / support role, while he does more of the damage. Obviously I still do some, but my numbers aren’t has high. While he’s dishing the damage, I’m mitigating the damage he’s taking with blinds, with knockbacks when he’s incapacitated (maybe he got stunned, but doesn’t have a stun breaker ready for example), with chills to slow down the special need-to-be-dodged attacks, with reflects to keep the additional ranged foes at bay until we’re done with the one we’re working on (or to keep them off me), etc etc.

When we 3 man dungeons with a guildie, normally I play my mesmer and use my illusions as defense and mitigation…if the boss is hitting them, he isn’t hitting my teammates. When the boss switches to my teammates, I can shatter for daze and redirect his attention (usually) to myself and then to my clones.

Wouldn’t it make more sense to ball up the melee and ranged mobs with temporal curtain, drop a feedback so that any projectiles they fire are reflected and then just cleave them down in melee together?

In theory for balling them up yeah, but sometimes keeping them in one place isn’t as easy (I don’t run focus for example). Even guardian GS 5 has what, a 30 sec cool down? before you can pull them all back in.

We don’t all care for melee necessarily so no ‘just melee them down together’ doesn’t particularly work for us. Some of us like to stay ranged. If that makes someone a ‘bad player’ because it’s not their play style, well then I guess we’ll always just be bad players and people don’t have to play with us.

noelclover.9408:

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

Let me explain to you when people say “defensive” in this game. They mean they want to run PVT or Clerics gear, and be able to face tank enemies by way of Toughness and Vitality(with some healing).

People who run Zerker gear, know that defensive means using active skills such as Reflects/Blinds or Interrupts/Aegis/Dodges(In that order). And if you have ways to mitigate full damage, then why bring pvt?

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

noelclover.9408:

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

Let me explain to you when people say “defensive” in this game. They mean they want to run PVT or Clerics gear, and be able to face tank enemies by way of Toughness and Vitality(with some healing).

People who run Zerker gear, know that defensive means using active skills such as Reflects/Blinds or Interrupts/Aegis/Dodges(In that order). And if you have ways to mitigate full damage, then why bring pvt?

QFT! Read that last part people.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

noelclover.9408:

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

Let me explain to you when people say “defensive” in this game. They mean they want to run PVT or Clerics gear, and be able to face tank enemies by way of Toughness and Vitality(with some healing).

People who run Zerker gear, know that defensive means using active skills such as Reflects/Blinds or Interrupts/Aegis/Dodges(In that order). And if you have ways to mitigate full damage, then why bring pvt?

Not necessarily true…. you make a very broad generalization there.

noelclover.9408:

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

I can’t speak for anyone else, so I won’t try. This is only my opinion.

One of the things missing from vitality and toughness is synergy with traits. We see precision, power, and crit dmg all synergize well with most of the available abilities. But what is needed are abilities or mechanics that synergize better with the defensive traits.

For instance: High vitality builds should have higher stamina for more dodges or decrease downstate times, high toughness builds should increase defensive ability uptimes or shorten cooldowns on defensive abilities. This sidesteps making pure tanks and increases true viability of defensive character builds.

Make defense synergize better and it will be more attractive to players. As the current meta stands, it’s generally just not worth it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

noelclover.9408:

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

Let me explain to you when people say “defensive” in this game. They mean they want to run PVT or Clerics gear, and be able to face tank enemies by way of Toughness and Vitality(with some healing).

People who run Zerker gear, know that defensive means using active skills such as Reflects/Blinds or Interrupts/Aegis/Dodges(In that order). And if you have ways to mitigate full damage, then why bring pvt?

Not necessarily true…. you make a very broad generalization there.

Cat is more or less on point though. For SPvP, WvW and Fractals I play mostly a Support/Heal build that uses cond damage to keep DPS up higher than if I was in say Clerics. In the rest of PvE (Most Dungeons/Paths) I don’t feel its proper to bring such a build most of the time. Why? Because of the question in the last sentence.

“And if you have ways to mitigate full damage, then why bring pvt?”

Which is 90% true. Of course you won’t be mitigating all damage, but enough damage to be compesated by standard non buffed heal skills in the very short time it takes to kill bosses compared to more support/defensive groups.

The problem isn’t the lack of defensive measures, healing potential etc. not being there for use in PvE by players. The problem is there is no need for it due to much of PvE being designed around very simplistic/few game mechanics and enemy mobs/bosses not using them. Almost every Dungeon is designed around enemies not having boons, or dealing any real conditions, having lots and lots of health instead and their DPS woven into 1 or 2 skills that are either used in close range only or far. Essentially most PvE follows simple arcade mechanics and simple arcade defensive measures are only needed (dodges, blocks, reflect).

However, how popular would Zerker only groups have been if the following was the case in all PvE?

- Mob/Boss base health and damage reduced first off to balance with below.
- Mobs/Bosses in all PvE used different combinations of Protection, Aegis, Retal, Weakness, Regeneration, Cond removal, reflects etc. to mitigate damage instead, sometimes all in one group of enemies.
- Mobs/Bosses also stack Might and Fury more often, almost every encounter.
- Mobs/Bosses use more dodges and evades more in common with players.
- Mobs/Bosses instead of having mostly 1-2 spike damage moves and being direct normal damage, they could have been designed around mass condition damage application, more area DoTs and pressure DPS (more leaps/burst/cc combined). Simply put: Challenging AI and anti-stacking scripts instead of for example “oh were ranged AI and the players went behind a corner, lets hug the corner and check it out instead of what a player character would do, which is get a clear a line of site before getting closer” or as Kulvar pointed out “Oh look 5 warriors stacking on me with GSes doing insane dmg, if only there was a dodge or blowback mechanic in this game… oh wait”
- Boss encounters regularly had adds.

Different game/class mechanics would be a lot more viable under these situations, as a full Zerker DPS oriented group would have a lot harder times finishing content quickly or efficiently because they ignored everything but dodging/blocks/reflects. Instead boon stripping, condition removal, cc conditions like chill/weakness, group heals, condition reapplication etc. would become a lot more useful. Full Zerker groups should still be able to do content (hopefully as the intention isn’t to make it impossible for said group types), but it would be harder and they may need to take more control utilities rather than just the skills that give them more and more DPS.

Again, the problem is that PvE mobs and bosses do not use or require 1/10 of the mechanics used in PvP or WvW. If AI played and acted more like real players in PvE, it would definitely change the status quo.

Have to agree with Balekai and LanfearShadowflame on this, it’s a little sad but true. ArenaNet does obviously see this as an area to improve though and has done some work to improve the PvE AI for a lot of encounters, requiring more control/mitigation.

For instance Karka bosses (need to boonstrip & reflect), the Queens Gauntlet (Liadri specifically), perma-stunning Aether Blades, Toxic Alliance etc. These additions give me confidence that ArenaNet is working to break the zerker>all meta that a lot of the PvE content is plagued with at the moment.

I think part of the problem too is that you can’t have more than 1 preset build. Therefore, if you can only have 1 set build then you might as well have the DPS one. It will be in demand for PVE, quick COF runs , wvw and even Fractals. No one in a party will complain because your doing too much DPS.

If they had multiple build then you wouldn’t mind trying others out and if they didn’t work switch back until you got it working right for you.

All i can add to the discussion is that, that the game is simple so it require a simple aproach.

Sadly gw2 is not the same as gw which had exelent ai for mobs(moveing away from aoe, kiting when using range attacks, interupting long chanelled skils) and great amount of situational skills for players to make the game with many differen ways to play.

Also in gw2 power and crit dmg is stronger than any armor you can get, even bunker builds can get 1-hit’ed by that if speced properly and in pve mobs can 1-hit you without even trying, so if it wont protect you then ther is no reson to use it.

Funny, from what i remember in gw armor also become obsolete with increas of number of skills that deal armor ignoring dmg, people switched to HP stacking instead.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

noelclover.9408:

Silent.4378:

Totally agree , every character ive made ends up been offensive. there no mechanics or need for a defensive person in a pve point of view.

So… I have one question.

What mechanics are you talking about here? You have blocks, blinds, dodges, stuns, knockbacks and skills that grant invulnerability.

PS: Not fully directed at you but also towards all who claim to want to play defensive characters. Quoting you because you put out the idea that there is a lack of mechanics for defensive play.

PPS: Really curious, hence question.

Let me explain to you when people say “defensive” in this game. They mean they want to run PVT or Clerics gear, and be able to face tank enemies by way of Toughness and Vitality(with some healing).

People who run Zerker gear, know that defensive means using active skills such as Reflects/Blinds or Interrupts/Aegis/Dodges(In that order). And if you have ways to mitigate full damage, then why bring pvt?

Let’s assume you’re right for argument’s sake…you just explained that the game is designed to invalidate vitality and toughness. It’s all nice and good that this is a ‘new way to play’ but it’s still…inconsistent/incoherent/incomplete if the ‘old way’ made use of stats that the ‘new’ way still carried over, but ignores.

Obvious elitism, kitten stroking aside (‘people who run zerker’…really), I agree that when people get more familiar with the game they do realize there are ways to-as a matter of fact THE way negate damage is as you’ve described…but again…why the hell have vitality and toughness in the game then? They serve no purpose. Also with those mitigation skills by no means limited to particular skill trees or anything it makes very little sense to try to make a character focused on defense because, as you just implied, a full damage character can do the very same thing. If the defensive skills’ effectiveness were increased by vitality/toughness and their base values reduced then MAYBE that would help. ‘Weakness’ base value 30% chance to deal 50% damage, scales with vitality to70% chance to deal 50% damage or something along those lines…but as is, weakness is weakness with 2k armor and 3k power or 2kpower and 3k armor (and the armor does little to actually protect you from damage and doesn’t save you from the numerous one shot/red rings of death attacks anyway) so why not kill things faster? There is no need for a defensive character because an offensive character can achieve similar results with the added benefit of killing things.

Also when the person says no mechanics or need for defensive characters I think they meant dungeon/mob/event design rather than game mechanics (coupled with what I just said about offensive characters being capable of very similar defensive capacity with the benefit of killing things). As a matter of fact, defiance alone shuts down one aspect of a defensive character, one shot attacks/red rings of death reduces it further (dodge/invul or gtfo).

(This is from pve pov)

Toughness and vitality are loved in WvW and PvP. There you go. That’s why it exists. Anet doesn’t seem good at making AI to play nice with the stats. But going against other human, it shines. So blame Anet’s coding for this. I just accept the truth.

It is clear from the start that in a game where it in possible to completely negate damage through dodges it is going to be optimal to dodge as much damage as possible and return-fire with all out dps.

This is aided by blinds, aegis and reflects which are seen as the top defensive measures. Because bosses and mobs hit so hard, a single well placed blind/aegis/reflect/dodge returns more than a whole spec focussed on toughness and vitality.

Thus we are left with zerkers + dodge + blind + aegis + reflects.

When you can fully negate the majority of the damage coming your way, it seems silly to build entirely around mitigating the portion you can’t negate.

This is further proven in wvw where damage is extremely frequent and extremely weak.
Blinds and aegis become far less effective, and we see people running PVT/Cleric gear a LOT more.

The reason for this dps-fest in pve stems from the removal of the trinity, the root of all min maxing.
If you can’t guess who is going to be taking hits, why build for taking hits? If 5 people run tank gear, only 1 of those players will be getting use out of it each time the boss attacks. If 5 people run dps gear, all of those players will get use out of it all of the time.

We saw it in games like WoW. When raid buffs became plentiful and raid-wide hybrid classes were replaced by rogues and mages. As content became easier (either due to incoming damage decreases or people having learned the fights) people replaced healers with more dpsers.

The solution appears to be to make incoming damage difficult to avoid – multiple small hits. But then the counter to that is to finish the fight through superior dps before it can kill you through attrition damage. I think if there were fights which you could not burst down before they deal more attrition damage than you can heal you might see a cleric guard mixed in with the zerkers or perhaps some toughness gear assuming the incoming damage could be mitigated.

stingray.5160:

I think part of the problem too is that you can’t have more than 1 preset build. Therefore, if you can only have 1 set build then you might as well have the DPS one. It will be in demand for PVE, quick COF runs , wvw and even Fractals. No one in a party will complain because your doing too much DPS.

If they had multiple build then you wouldn’t mind trying others out and if they didn’t work switch back until you got it working right for you.

Exactly! Thank you for bringing up my biggest dream for GW2, Multiple Build Templates. The reason why DPS maximized stats are so commonly used is that you have to choose one build & stat combo for all encounters while in a dungeon, fractal, WvW ect. with no easy way to switch depending on group composition or situation.

Unfortunately the lowest common denominator DPS (zerker) works the best overall in most situations when you can only choose one. But if you could strategically swap to an attrition/healing or control/interrupt build if the group needed it or if the encounter ahead required it you would be more effective than just powering through with a DPS glass build. Then swap back to your DPS build when that is optimal.

I’ve written a lot about the specific advantages to having Build Templates in GW2 on other threads so I’ll leave it there. Thanks again for raising that point stingray.