Game Updates: Traits

Game Updates: Traits

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Posted by: Almoryk Kane.6085

Almoryk Kane.6085

Please give us more options for how to get our traits. At the current moment some of the way you get these traits seems really punishing for new players. Yes I understand you don’t get the first trait till 30 now but even so we should have more choice.

The 100% Map completion forces players to make their way to that specific map. It should be “Complete any lvl 30-50 Map 100%” Makes us have a choice of where we want to go.

The dungeon traits also force players to go to a specific dungeon. Again it should be based on level “Complete any lvl 20-50 Story Dungeon” So that new players can choose which dungeon they are actually interested in. Same goes for the paths. Do any Path. Choice!

The WvW are probably the worst ones. A person might have to wait weeks to get that trait if the server they are in doesn’t do particularly well in WvW and they are on the wrong side of the map depending on if they are Blue, Green, or Red. It should be something along the lines of “Capture any Keep” or “Capture any Tower.” Makes it easier.

Just please give us more options when it comes to making a new character. At the current system it really discourages new players sense of choice. When you come into Guild Wars 2 you explore where you want to explore, you see an interesting event and you do it or you don’t. I know that was in the manifesto. Now its “Oh there is the event you need to do.”

Game Updates: Traits

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

I edited this section from my last post so much that I decided to just remove it from the previous one and make it a new post

The gold cost of trait unlocks needs tweaking.

  • These costs need to be set carefully. If the cost is too low, there is no reason to use unlock quests. If the cost is too high, players will be effectively forced into doing content they may have no interest in. The only criteria for setting these values should be desired typical new player development.
  • I suspect that from an economy standpoint, these costs were at least partially designed to offset the money sink lost when armor repairs were made free. Any such non-gameplay reasoning should not play any part in setting these costs.
  • The typical player usually only uses one trait per slot while levelling, so it should be relatively cheap to unlock one trait per slot. If the player wants build diversity via additional traits, then they should either have to work for it (quest unlocks) or pay a high cost for it.
  • These costs must be set based on the assumption of the character being the first character of a new player. If they are set in relation to the accumulated wealth of a multi-character older player, it would both cripple new players and effectively punish the older players for saving up gold.
  • Suggestion: Increasing unlock costs. The first Adept trait in each line should be very “cheap” to unlock via gold for a typical new level 30 character. Unlocking a second should be “not cheap”. Unlocking a third should be “expensive”. Etc, etc. The same goes for Master traits, with costs set in relation to the typical gold of a new level 60 character, and for Grandmaster traits in relation to the typical gold of a new level 80 character.
  • I’m not giving exact values for things, just criteria, because I don’t have the data you have. If you want an exact mathematical breakdown of how much things should cost, I can do that, but I’ll need a bunch of data, time, and probably some irl money.

As always, thanks for listening.

I like it. Thumbs up for thinking outside the box.

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

Game Updates: Traits

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

This having to do really hard to almost impossible things to acquire traits is not new to gw2.

So what? That’s not remotely a justification. Most games have learned from the bad decisions of the past and moved on.

And just because a lot of players want it when they want it, and do not want to have to do things later…put things off til later in the game….doesn’t make what gw2 did …a mistake.

Glossing over the unnecessary descent to the adhominem : most people commenting here seem to have been happy with the pace of the perfectly good, working system GW2 had before. There’s nothing inherently wrong with changing that, if the replacement is reasonable. In this case, in my opinion the change is massively flawed, in several ways that I and others have documented, and if left unrectified, could easily prove to be the nail in GW2’s coffin. Clearly you don’t agree. Fine, you’re entitled to your opinion as well. Time will tell what the community as a whole feels, and ultimately the market will vote with its feet.

Rage quitters are Just people unhappy with change, they feel that they can rile enough people to " vote with their feet" they seldom do. I hardly believe that Anet is quaking in their boots because some people on the forums are threatening to rage-quit.

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

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Posted by: Infernia.9847

Infernia.9847

After taking a break since December I came back post-patch with cautious expectations. I thought the new acquisition was going to be for new traits not previously available to the classes. (Which in all fairness is true of some of the GM traits). I loved the idea of hunting down the new traits.
After logging into the lower level alts though I am disappointed in losing what I had unlocked and slogging through content to gain build diversity. I mistakenly thought our old traits would still be available and the new ones would be what created even more diversity.
This delivery is like taking one’s toys away and repackaging them as new but not only that we have to find a way to get them off the roof and out of the trees in the yard (sans ladder).
If only I’d invested in something worthwhile on the TP before my break.

Blackgate : Level 80 Ranger, Necro, Guardian, Warrior
Devs: Trait Challenge Issued

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

I do agree with many that Anet needs to take a look at the tasks required to attain some traits. Specially some of the lower level traits, and adjust their attainability. Beyond that, I think maybe switching some of them up so that, for example, line 1, trait 2 isn’t the same for every profession. Maybe for a thief it’s a JP, for a mesmer it’s an event, etc. Nothing insane, but something to mix it up and keep things fresh.

Additionally, map completion for a trait might be a bit much… Most of the maps are pretty kitten big.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: Nerelith.7360

Nerelith.7360

I do agree with many that Anet needs to take a look at the tasks required to attain some traits. Specially some of the lower level traits, and adjust their attainability. Beyond that, I think maybe switching some of them up so that, for example, line 1, trait 2 isn’t the same for every profession. Maybe for a thief it’s a JP, for a mesmer it’s an event, etc. Nothing insane, but something to mix it up and keep things fresh.

Additionally, map completion for a trait might be a bit much… Most of the maps are pretty kitten big.

While I have been behind Anet’s decision to have events and game content be the manner that traits are unlocked…. this I can get behind.

I really think it would make for a more interesting game, if the trait unlocked were in content somehow related to the trait acquired.

In gw1 Elite skills were unlocked by hunting down a Boss Mob that used that skill… going with a Capture signet which basically ate up One of your skills, so while normally you had access to 8…Now you only had 7. You had to kill the Mob… that gave you it’s trait.

Deep down I do miss this. I do feel that instead of map “Complete map bla bla.” for all classes it should depend on the mobs in the zone. If a Lot of condition casters, maybe Only a Condition trait is available? Need Not be class specific, even thieves use conditions.

Or if you want a mesmer trait unlocked, why Not have it be used by a Champion that uses mesmer skills?

You see where I am going.

The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

I do agree with many that Anet needs to take a look at the tasks required to attain some traits. Specially some of the lower level traits, and adjust their attainability. Beyond that, I think maybe switching some of them up so that, for example, line 1, trait 2 isn’t the same for every profession. Maybe for a thief it’s a JP, for a mesmer it’s an event, etc. Nothing insane, but something to mix it up and keep things fresh.

Additionally, map completion for a trait might be a bit much… Most of the maps are pretty kitten big.

While I have been behind Anet’s decision to have events and game content be the manner that traits are unlocked…. this I can get behind.

I really think it would make for a more interesting game, if the trait unlocked were in content somehow related to the trait acquired.

In gw1 Elite skills were unlocked by hunting down a Boss Mob that used that skill… going with a Capture signet which basically ate up One of your skills, so while normally you had access to 8…Now you only had 7. You had to kill the Mob… that gave you it’s trait.

Deep down I do miss this. I do feel that instead of map “Complete map bla bla.” for all classes it should depend on the mobs in the zone. If a Lot of condition casters, maybe Only a Condition trait is available? Need Not be class specific, even thieves use conditions.

Or if you want a mesmer trait unlocked, why Not have it be used by a Champion that uses mesmer skills?

You see where I am going.

Yeah, I understand, I think, and for some traits (like the new 13th trait) I could see that making sense. For (example) Power Block, a mesmer has to go kill some very specific mesmer champ (maybe even a new one, added to roam a specific region and requires an event chain to spawn him/her). I think that would be sufficient. It would add more of the GW1 feel, while not hindering us like having to carry a SoC sometimes did.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

I do agree with many that Anet needs to take a look at the tasks required to attain some traits. Specially some of the lower level traits, and adjust their attainability. Beyond that, I think maybe switching some of them up so that, for example, line 1, trait 2 isn’t the same for every profession. Maybe for a thief it’s a JP, for a mesmer it’s an event, etc. Nothing insane, but something to mix it up and keep things fresh.

Additionally, map completion for a trait might be a bit much… Most of the maps are pretty kitten big.

While I have been behind Anet’s decision to have events and game content be the manner that traits are unlocked…. this I can get behind.

I really think it would make for a more interesting game, if the trait unlocked were in content somehow related to the trait acquired.

In gw1 Elite skills were unlocked by hunting down a Boss Mob that used that skill… going with a Capture signet which basically ate up One of your skills, so while normally you had access to 8…Now you only had 7. You had to kill the Mob… that gave you it’s trait.

Deep down I do miss this. I do feel that instead of map “Complete map bla bla.” for all classes it should depend on the mobs in the zone. If a Lot of condition casters, maybe Only a Condition trait is available? Need Not be class specific, even thieves use conditions.

Or if you want a mesmer trait unlocked, why Not have it be used by a Champion that uses mesmer skills?

You see where I am going.

I like the current trait acquisition, but something like this might be a nice addition.

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Posted by: Heibi.4251

Heibi.4251

ANeT, are you actually reading these, or are you just providing a vent topic that will be ignored? There are 12 pages of many very well thought out responses to the new trait system.

Quick fix for you:
First and foremost – Go back to 1 trait point per level when characters achieve the required level. Gives the feeling of progression and building a trait line.

Adept traits: Give one trait of the player’s choosing in each line for free. Then make all Adept traits available in zones of level 40 or less. Map completion should be limited to zone levels of 1-25. That gives you around 8 zones for that. No dungeons and no WVW. Or at least have an alternative for the WVW players to do the same thing and not have to do PVE if they don’t want to.

Master traits: Same idea – Give one trait of the player’s choosing in each line for free upon attaining the proper level. Same zone completion idea if you are going to use it. Nothing above level 60 zones for Master traits. And now you can use dungeons of any level up to 60 for acquiring traits.

Grandmaster Traits: Leave as is. Gives the higher level characters a challenge.

So that’s my 2 Gems worth of ideas.

Leader of Central Anime(CA)
Tifa Ran/Ranger with a Pet
Commander WvW – Henge of Denravi

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Posted by: Hraefn.6240

Hraefn.6240

I’m a new player. My highest character is level 22 and I played casually once or twice a week with a friend for a few hours. We really liked the simple and straight forward design of the game where you can do what you want and where you want. Since our progress is slow anyway, getting something every level felt meaningful. We both have lost our motivation to play anymore because we not only lost our trait points but to require those options we are now forced to do 8 more levels without any traits and then we need to do specific content. Buying it is absolutely out of the questions. I have two gold now on my account and I need every single skill point to buy some skills in order to keep the gameplay fresh.

What were you thinking? I was kind of hesitant buying Guild Wars 2 but ended up liking it to some extend. That opinion has turned into the opposite and I kind of regret spending that money.

(edited by Hraefn.6240)

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Posted by: Synesh.1094

Synesh.1094

This is silly.

I was looking forwards for this new trait system. I was eager to learn new traits as I proceeded with my lvling experience.
Instead when I reached lvl 30 with a new character the list of jobs I have to do to obtain a simple Tier 1 trait is absurde and without reason.

Why would I need to complete Bloodtide Coast, a zone I’ll probably complete, if I keep the flow of my lvling going, around lvl 55. For a Tier 1 trait, what the hell.
At least, for the sake of logic make this tier 1 – 2 – 3 traits part of the lvling experience. Make them something to do WHILE we are in a zone around lvl 30-50. Don’t put them at the end of long chain events that will people will do anyway because of farm. Don’t add them to the map completition of a zone but make them part of the exploration of said zone.
How better if would be gain a trait if I kneel in front of the large tower in the Ascalon settelment.

Maybe add some to Class Themed events in the world. Like the skill point in Kessex hills where you have to fight an elemental. Add a fire or water trait unlock to that single fight low lvl fight.

Do you know the Grenth statue in lornars pass? Why not give a necromancer trait if you discover it. Maybe something to do with shadow magic.

Do you want a warrior trait? Assist in a large fight like the defense of ascalon settelment to gain a Defense or Tactics tier 1 trait. I know when it comes to events such as this there’s the risk people won’t have it immediatly and may have to wait a bit. But this events are such on a short countdown that I’m not really sure how it can bother people. At least in my opinion.

In the end this change seemed so good but it’s been turned into an uninspired, mandatory grind.
Between this and the megaserver my disappointment is rising.

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Posted by: shawn.1298

shawn.1298

Rage quitters are Just people unhappy with change, they feel that they can rile enough people to " vote with their feet" they seldom do. I hardly believe that Anet is quaking in their boots because some people on the forums are threatening to rage-quit.

Oh please, can we dispense with characterizing people who disagree as someone less than rational? I’m going to quit until they change the new trait system and I’m not a frothing “rage quitter.” Its just not fun. Now I don’t expect Anet to “quake in their boots,” because I don’t like their new game. I also think it would as ridiculous to assume Anet will take your rubber stamp as proof the new system doesn’t need a lot of work. I’m sure they are as accustomed to echo chambers as they are to complaints.

I’ve already leveled to 80. Glowing armor and fancy dyes don’t impress me much but leveling alts is fun for me. This patch made leveling alts no fun. Its not “rage” its preference. People will vote with their feet. There are a lot of games out there, too many to play something you don’t like.

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Posted by: PookieDaWombat.6209

PookieDaWombat.6209

Anet: you done goofed.

I am what many might call an altaholic. I have a thing about making and leveling alts, even if i have a solid level 80 of that class simply because it helps me re-learn things about the class that i might have ignored or what have you.

I used to drop some money on gem cards too just to get a new slot here and there. I have 2 sub level 30 alts at the moment that might not ever see level 80 thanks to the new trait system, and worse (for you) i won’t be dropping anymore money on gem cards. I’ll def keep playing my level 80s for now.

Maybe you’ll come to your senses and see how bad this is. if not, then congrats on the loss in revenue. I know I’m not the only one. :/

And if it was NCSoft pulling your strings on this one, then shame on them for sinking this ship.

[OTR] – Greck Howlbane – Guardian
Soraya Mayhew – Thief
Melissa Koris – Engie – SF for Life!

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Posted by: Fenrir.6183

Fenrir.6183

This update is a complete mess.
Not only are the trait changes totally uselessing, they also add some grind to the game making it even less fun than it was before.
Coupled with stupid PVE (you don’t look like you can design a boss fight and a lot of MMOs kick gw2’s kitten in that category), no love for the wvw and apparently believing your so-so pvp can be somewhat of an e-sport (believe me, it can’t), it just makes this game terrible.
I used to have fun in wvw but got a bit bored with it. I then realised there was nothing else in the game that really was any good. And the worst with all this is that you keep making meaningless patches like all these wardrobe and dyes changes while your game is slowly dying.
Well good job, you’re probably losing a lot of players with that stupid patch that was supposed to be a “feature” pack…lol.
Go back to design school guys.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

So, I’ve had a chance to look through some of the trait acquisition finally (thank you Dulfy for the guide) and some of it makes me scratch my head. Map completion of Gendarren, really? Might be a bit much for a single trait acquisition. True, you might be doing this to level your character anyway from 25 to 35, but it still seems a bit extravagant. My proposition is thus:

There are currently 6 adept, 4 master, and 3 grandmaster traits. With traits starting at 30, you can effective lock a trait to an event, boss, etc per every 5 levels, per line.

Trait 1 = lvl 30 boss, event, story mission, etc.
Trait 2 = lvl 35 "
Trait 3 = lvl 40 "
etc, etc

Then people might feel a little better about acquiring these as they go, and not feel like they are insanely out of reach. I do suggest mixing them up some though, spread them out around the world and not necessarily make them the same task from profession to profession. I mean right now Line 1, Trait 1 is the lvl 55 story mission for everyone. That’s kinda boring.

Additionally, I would suggest that maybe wvw tasks be left for later level acquisition tasks. This way players have some traits under their belt when they enter wvw.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: Lazuli.2098

Lazuli.2098


This new system is terrible for build diversity and indeed for class diversity- as people who have levelled multiple classes will tell you, it’s a lot easier levelling some rather than others that are a lot more dependent on traits to be viable. Levelling a band new mesmer must now be truely awful.

Mesmer is my favorite. I’ve got 2 level 80s and 1 level 37 which I started before this update so should have all traits available, so no problem. I remember I couldn’t wait to reach level 40 on my second one so I could get Deceptive Evasion (number 1 trait for all mesmers IMO). On my level 37 mesmer I should be able to get it when she is around 48 (not sure when we get traits with this new system). But a new player starting a new mesmer will also need to do the personal story for level 62 to unlock the trait. Not doable without help until they are in their 60s or high 50s. That seems like a ridiculously look time to wait to get such an important trait.

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Posted by: Erebos.6819

Erebos.6819

One of the glaring problems with the system is not only receiving a trait point 19 levels later than before, but the loss of the associated attributes in any given line. Why not simply the matter further and promote more “build diversity” by making the trait line and the attributes separate. Give me +10 to any two attributes each time I level starting at level 11, resettable or reallocatable whenever I want (just like the traits) and I think I might be able to live with the new system.

(edited by Erebos.6819)

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Posted by: Lostyus.4250

Lostyus.4250

So, I’ve had a chance to look through some of the trait acquisition finally (thank you Dulfy for the guide) and some of it makes me scratch my head. Map completion of Gendarren, really? Might be a bit much for a single trait acquisition. True, you might be doing this to level your character anyway from 25 to 35, but it still seems a bit extravagant. My proposition is thus:

There are currently 6 adept, 4 master, and 3 grandmaster traits. With traits starting at 30, you can effective lock a trait to an event, boss, etc per every 5 levels, per line.

Trait 1 = lvl 30 boss, event, story mission, etc.
Trait 2 = lvl 35 "
Trait 3 = lvl 40 "
etc, etc

Then people might feel a little better about acquiring these as they go, and not feel like they are insanely out of reach. I do suggest mixing them up some though, spread them out around the world and not necessarily make them the same task from profession to profession. I mean right now Line 1, Trait 1 is the lvl 55 story mission for everyone. That’s kinda boring.

Additionally, I would suggest that maybe wvw tasks be left for later level acquisition tasks. This way players have some traits under their belt when they enter wvw.

I’m just guessing here but maybe they didn’t specialize traits because for example if Rangers had to beat ‘Mervin the angry shoe’ for a trait then the majority of times it would only ever be Rangers fighting that boss.

I don’t mind having ways to go out and get the traits though, but more variety, and making them max 4 or 5 levels ahead of your toon is the minimum they’d need to do in my opinion.

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Posted by: Ocosh.5843

Ocosh.5843

I’ll aim to keep it short, but brevity is not my long suit. After giving it a week, here’s what I’ve got:

The short:

There really was something psychological to gaining a point every level; it made each time an event. Now it’s meaningless. I accept that simplifying traits to 14 points works, though I reject that there was anyone so witless as to be confused by the old system. I deeply detest the backloading of power gains. It turns the journey into a slog and makes this a game intent on max-level content at the expense of the rest, which is what every other MMO is and which I sought to escape in coming here.

The long:

sPvP was arguably least impacted by the trait change, since sPvP’ers still have access to all the I-XII traits anyway (I tested this with a new character), outside of the new interface, which is annoying. Previously, I could click on any Major Trait hexagon and get a flyout menu listing all the options available at that point, which I could mouseover for details. The scrolling menu &c. is too clicky (this is a thing). There are 5 lines with 13 traits for each of 8 professions; I have several alts, am casual, and am old: Unless it’s called Good Sword Stabbin’ or Focus on the Focus I am not going to recall a trait’s function by its name; the listing is wasted space.

We can divide PvE into Leveling and Group Play. The latter, by which I especially suggest dungeons, has not to my experience benefited from the changes. Since the Feature Pack I have run several dungeons, both around suggested range (no more than 5 levels above minimum entry) and at max level scaled down. Whereas previously the contribution difference between the 80s and the “lowbies” was certainly noticeable, it was not always glaring. It is now of such an extreme that the lower level characters simply represent warm bodies being carried through the content, often in a mostly-dead state.

Have enemies in dungeons been re-tuned for a lack of traits at lower levels? I couldn’t say. On the one hand, the 80s tore through them as 80s do. On the other, the low level characters seemed to offer little outside of opportunities to rez. My sample size was not large, but I can say that in prior dungeon-running experience, there was still a sense that everyone was a member of the team.

WvW suffers similarly from the power gap. Before, I could take a non-80 into WvW and still contribute. Now I largely cannot. One has the equivalent of half the trait points one previously had and no access to higher tiers. One gets the sense that s/he is a liability, rather than a scrappy utility player. It’s not a good feeling.

Others have commented eloquently on the new leveling hazards. Recall that the announcements and notes made reference to only “Trait Guides.” I took this mean that there would be a series of items, such as “Adept Trait Guide,” that would appear as loot or reward or somesuch, which the player could then consume to unlock a trait of the player’s choice. I recognize the theory behind the reality of the implementation — earning a given trait would be specific to a given task — but can only echo others’ concerns that it was not enacted with a particular attention to fitting reward to deed.

Sadly, I can glean some rationale behind the placement of middling abilities behind walls only surmountable by more powerful means: You are meant to grind mindlessly to max level, and then begin to play the game. In the normal course of progression, a PC will simply not have the in-game currency, spare skill points, or in some cases phyisical capacity to obtain the points.

On a personal level, I spent some time recently trying to convince an old buddy — the guy who got me into MMO’s — to join me on GW2. If he takes me up on it, I will have inadvertently subjected him to a leveling experience that is of a sudden unkind and bland. Now what do I tell him? “Sorry, I guess the company and I tricked you. It used to be good, though!”

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Posted by: Naevius.3185

Naevius.3185

Having tried this out now, I still think that starting at 30 is no big deal. But the requirements for some of the traits are way out of whack. Clear a max level area to get an adept (VI) trait? That makes no sense – you won’t get that trait until endgame, and you’d earn the money to buy it outright before you were halfway done clearing the area anyway.

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Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

I’m just guessing here but maybe they didn’t specialize traits because for example if Rangers had to beat ‘Mervin the angry shoe’ for a trait then the majority of times it would only ever be Rangers fighting that boss.

Well, they could make it a popular event. For example, the boss at the end of the Assault on Thunder Rock meta is an ele centuar. Think he’s an ele, might be thinking a different one, but anyway, they could tie an ele trait acquisition to that, for example. They should be able to specialize some of the traits without too much issue that way. I wasn’t thinking they should do all of them that way… That’d be a scary lot of work.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

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Posted by: Trybil.1567

Trybil.1567

Another unhappy customer here. Maybe I am unusual player but when I hit level 80 (have done that on two chars), I have been making alts. I have “enjoyed the journey” more than for me more tedious grind of the end-game. New races, new classes, a rich and exciting wealth of world experiences to enjoy…

But now the journey itself has become more of a grind. First couple times I gained a level post-patch, it was a “yay” followed by an immediate “bleh” as there was no particular reward or gain of a trait point.

Pushing all the traits to higher levels with bigger level gaps between them just encourages more of a race to the end. What about those of us who actually enjoy the (arguably richer) content levels 1-79?

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Posted by: DDCarvalho.2071

DDCarvalho.2071

My main issue with the new trait system (that I think has appeared some times here) is that is really grindy.
I have seen people complaining that the new system was lazily developed, because the unlocks are the same for all professions instead of profession-dependent. While I agree, I understand that creating 70 × 8 different unlocks could be hard.
What I don’t understand is the choices for unlock.
I think that the best way to provide for adept traits would be to put them as rewards for heart quests, preferably in 3 or 4 different maps. I would put 1 to auto-unlock (the worst one :P), 3 traits to be found in 4 different heart vendors or event vendors (vendors that unlock on event completion) on level 30-40 maps, and the 2 most popular in level 40-50 heart vendors or event vendors (with more than one option too). In those vendors, the trait would cost only 1 skill point and no gold.
I would put the profession trainers to sell “treasure maps” to these traits so you could see on the map where you could unlock all the traits for you character ,for a cheap fee.
Actually, that’s how I would put all trait and skill aquisition, mostly on heart vendors and event vendors with a little of them (elites, maybe) assosicated with dungeons, and with most having multiple options to acquisition.
This would take back the sense of ability hunting of GW1 without making the game become the grind it has become now with “complete THIS map” traits.

(Also, it would make the heart vendors on low-medium level maps a lot more relevant… Usually what they have? Greens or blues a few levels below the minimum level for the heart. And this equipment can’t even be salvaged. Yay. Really yay. I learned to ignore them very fast.)

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Posted by: Lostyus.4250

Lostyus.4250

I’m just guessing here but maybe they didn’t specialize traits because for example if Rangers had to beat ‘Mervin the angry shoe’ for a trait then the majority of times it would only ever be Rangers fighting that boss.

Well, they could make it a popular event. For example, the boss at the end of the Assault on Thunder Rock meta is an ele centuar. Think he’s an ele, might be thinking a different one, but anyway, they could tie an ele trait acquisition to that, for example. They should be able to specialize some of the traits without too much issue that way. I wasn’t thinking they should do all of them that way… That’d be a scary lot of work.

Yeah, having a reason for getting the trait in already existing things would have been a lot more fitting, without too much work.

Shame, I would have liked to see things like that.

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Posted by: etiolate.9185

etiolate.9185

Brand new players will struggle to afford new utility skills and new traits if they follow the suggestion of buying the trait.

And if you’re new system of earning traits is turning people towards the less exciting option of talking to an NPC to buy the trait? Then you’re new system is failing.

Zed Zebes – SBI Mesmer

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Posted by: nibblesalil.3561

nibblesalil.3561

This having to do really hard to almost impossible things to acquire traits is not new to gw2.

So what? That’s not remotely a justification. Most games have learned from the bad decisions of the past and moved on.

And just because a lot of players want it when they want it, and do not want to have to do things later…put things off til later in the game….doesn’t make what gw2 did …a mistake.

Glossing over the unnecessary descent to the adhominem : most people commenting here seem to have been happy with the pace of the perfectly good, working system GW2 had before. There’s nothing inherently wrong with changing that, if the replacement is reasonable. In this case, in my opinion the change is massively flawed, in several ways that I and others have documented, and if left unrectified, could easily prove to be the nail in GW2’s coffin. Clearly you don’t agree. Fine, you’re entitled to your opinion as well. Time will tell what the community as a whole feels, and ultimately the market will vote with its feet.

i only have one thing to say to you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye7FKc1JQe4

if life is a cabaret old chum ………lets caberet

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Posted by: nibblesalil.3561

nibblesalil.3561

Brand new players will struggle to afford new utility skills and new traits if they follow the suggestion of buying the trait.

And if you’re new system of earning traits is turning people towards the less exciting option of talking to an NPC to buy the trait? Then you’re new system is failing.

the alternative is do the actually event to get the skill actually explore the map to get it you dont have to spend any money at all but doing the champ train will not work no more you will have to work for these traits thing is people dont want to work they want it all easy as it used to be work for it explore you get rewarded in that i only got one thing to say to you " get over it " people want to watch a movie i know a lot of people do this and they go round queensdale train mindless way to get the money to buy the book and it all be easy ride the train to 80 thats not the case anymore work to get the trait or stop whining " this is not easy anymore i cant watch my film " question why are you watching a film and playing an MMO in the first place ??

if life is a cabaret old chum ………lets caberet

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Posted by: nibblesalil.3561

nibblesalil.3561

you know i hear people screaming for new content here it is to get the trait you need to do this the specific event tied to the trait line you want ……….. the people moaning buy the traits ……….. you want new content its here stop complaining that you want something thats already here jesus i want new content !!! its here " i dont like it " omg theres just no pleaseing some people

if life is a cabaret old chum ………lets caberet

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Posted by: Sephrye.1628

Sephrye.1628

It’s not about not liking new content, it’s that the requirements are ridiculous.

A level 30 required to do level 50 or 80 map completion,
give me a break, that’s outrageous.
Or a low level required to go into wvw and survive, just to get a pve trait.

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Posted by: etiolate.9185

etiolate.9185

Brand new players will struggle to afford new utility skills and new traits if they follow the suggestion of buying the trait.

And if you’re new system of earning traits is turning people towards the less exciting option of talking to an NPC to buy the trait? Then you’re new system is failing.

the alternative is do the actually event to get the skill actually explore the map to get it you dont have to spend any money at all but doing the champ train will not work no more you will have to work for these traits thing is people dont want to work they want it all easy as it used to be work for it explore you get rewarded in that i only got one thing to say to you " get over it " people want to watch a movie i know a lot of people do this and they go round queensdale train mindless way to get the money to buy the book and it all be easy ride the train to 80 thats not the case anymore work to get the trait or stop whining " this is not easy anymore i cant watch my film " question why are you watching a film and playing an MMO in the first place ??

what? That reads like rambling gibberish.

Use some punctuation.

For what i could divine from all of that, I’ll say the Queensdale train has nothing to do with any of this.

Zed Zebes – SBI Mesmer

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Posted by: Elothar.4382

Elothar.4382

It’s not about not liking new content, it’s that the requirements are ridiculous.

A level 30 required to do level 50 or 80 map completion,
give me a break, that’s outrageous.
Or a low level required to go into wvw and survive, just to get a pve trait.

This is indeed the issue for most of the complaints that I have seen. The basic idea of going out into the world and doing things to get the traits, in and of itself, is fine. The issue is that the current set-up that matches traits to requirements is a bit out of whack. In my mind, this doesn’t require a massive overhaul…just some adjustment of the traits versus requirements with an eye toward which events, areas, and requirements are consistent with the level of the traits sought.

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Posted by: Lheimroo.2947

Lheimroo.2947

you know i hear people screaming for new content here it is to get the trait you need to do this the specific event tied to the trait line you want ……….. the people moaning buy the traits ……….. you want new content its here stop complaining that you want something thats already here jesus i want new content !!! its here " i dont like it " omg theres just no pleaseing some people

You haven’t understood the main complaint.

A lot of the people in here whining quite like the concept of doing tasks to get traits; that’s no issue.

The issue is:

1. Especially for adept tier traits, the requirements to unlock mostly vastly outlevel you when you’d theoretically gain access to them.

2. Leveling new alts feels much less interesting than when traits were available earlier.

3. Especially for new players the costs of simply buying traits would be prohibitive, but it’s no joke even for long time players either.

4. If you have to be ‘selective’ in your trait acquisition because it’s either too hard or too expensive, there’s much less flexibility to play around while leveling; again, this leads to lower level play feeling much less engaging.

5. Downscaling adjustments seem to have penalized lowbie performance in dungeons.

6. With no traits, it’s nearly criminal to ask a new player/new alt to go into WvW.

I mean, really. It’s perfectly legit to have issues with the poor implementation of a good scheme. Don’t act like it’s illegitimate to ever complain.

(edited by Lheimroo.2947)

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Posted by: Sephrye.1628

Sephrye.1628

It’s not about not liking new content, it’s that the requirements are ridiculous.

A level 30 required to do level 50 or 80 map completion,
give me a break, that’s outrageous.
Or a low level required to go into wvw and survive, just to get a pve trait.

This is indeed the issue for most of the complaints that I have seen. The basic idea of going out into the world and doing things to get the traits, in and of itself, is fine. The issue is that the current set-up that matches traits to requirements is a bit out of whack. In my mind, this doesn’t require a massive overhaul…just some adjustment of the traits versus requirements with an eye toward which events, areas, and requirements are consistent with the level of the traits sought.

Agreed,
I don’t mind going and getting them (might even be fun),
but only if it’s balanced for the level of the character doing them.

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Posted by: Kross.6428

Kross.6428

I can’t believe what I’m reading,… people requested a system like this since release of GW2 – something that has been in GW1 from the get go. Now we got it and people cry how they need to do open world stuff / quests in order to unlock it. Seriously?

Personally I think this is wonderful. I have tons of new traits I can work towards to, and if I’m tired of a build I have to go adventuring to become better. It feels much more like GW1 to me, in a good way.

No, I do not want everything unlocked from the start.
Yes, I want more stuff to do in the open world.

Honestly: thank you, Anet! These changes made the game so much more fun to me.

I agree with you. It is more fun being able to earn your traits, and see your character grow as a direct result of your hard work. I see nothing wrong with introducing that into the game. Actually, I welcome it with open arms.

However, you (and several others) seem to be missing the point that a lot of other people are expressing their grievances about. The method to earning traits is unbalanced, unpleasant, and practically impossible for lower level characters. Sure, you can easily unlock all the traits once you reach level 70+, but that entirely misses the point of building a character in the lower levels. It takes away something valuable in the journey to level 80. Some adept traits are unlocked by doing ridiculously difficult tasks, that virtually make unlocking those traits at level 36 impossible. Now that doesn’t sound very fun, now does it?

For the most part, that is what people are complaining about…


In all seriousness, I dare anyone who thinks that this new unlock system is “wonderful” to make a brand new character. Once you reach level 36 and you have unlocked the ability to apply an Adept trait, achieve 100% map complete on Fireheart Rise, Iron Marches, Mount Maelstrom, or Frostgorge Sound. Mind you, completing each of those maps only unlocks a single Adept trait. Not a Master trait. Not a Grandmaster trait. An Adept trait. Tell us how much fun that was at level 36.

(Reference) http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide

Stormbluff Isle – Baka Royale [Baka]

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Posted by: Vio.2506

Vio.2506

I had really loved this game intensely since coming back in Jan, but the new trait changes really are a slap in the face to the freedom that used to be there; they just added boredom and frustration to the plate of new players.

Way way longer to get trait points to assign, and when you finally get to assign them to unlock your slots you sit with “quests” (honestly 100% completion stuff are achievements and chores), which in turn you are to low level to do – so continue the boring grind some more.

My love for this game is waning; it’s only saving grace is that ESO is “poo” and buggy.

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Some adept traits are unlocked by doing ridiculously difficult tasks, that virtually make unlocking those traits at level 36 impossible.

Looks like they’re pushing you very hard to buy traits with gold. If you do, this new trait system is a massive gold sink. I’d rather have armor repairs costs back.

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Posted by: momistah.2053

momistah.2053

It seems like the time sink to unlock traits is fairly large as well. I mean, it usually takes an hour and a half to two hours to 100% a zone (this is especially true for classes with little swiftness, like Mesmer) and just to reach a character’s full potential we have to do more than 10 of them? For most/all casual players, this is an insane barrier to entry. As a student, this means I’m going to spend probably an entire month of my free time just working towards trait unlocks.

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Posted by: Sungak Alkandenes.1369

Sungak Alkandenes.1369

Hearing/Seeing more and more feedback about how the unlocks work, it just needs (I hope) simple changes to be in line with reasonable progression.

1) Map completions should be for levels below the tier, not above. With the unlocks starting at L30, I don’t understand why that was not the case already. Doing those maps should also earn you gold and skill points, that can be used to buy the traits you don’t want to do; this will help in fostering the ‘play as you want’ mentality again.

Map completion of the high-level zones should be reserved for Master (L60) or GM (L80) traits.

2) Move WvW unlocks to high-end Master traits, or the GM traits. A player going in will still be at a disadvantage, but at least not completely stripped of traits. Plus, by then he/she should be more experienced with the class to help counteract that handicap.

3) There are lots of out-of-the-way, yet difficult jumping puzzles you can use for some of the more challenging unlocks (even low level ones). There’s also a couple of fun mini-dungeons that would get more player attention, if they had trait unlocks linked to them. I admit to be biased a bit to one of those, as it involves helping an Order of Whispers group.

My love for this game is waning; it’s only saving grace is that ESO is “poo” and buggy.

If you’re going to pay a sub anyway, give Eve a shot perhaps?

“The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever.” — Me
I like to view MMOs through the lazy eye of a Systems Admin, and the critical eye of a
Project Manager. You’ve been warned. ;-)

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Posted by: rstripn.8697

rstripn.8697

Hey, yet another post from me about trait unlocks!

I really like the idea of using heart vendors to help fix quest-based trait unlocks.

  • Leverages an existing mechanic instead of having to code a new one: reduces time and expense, hopefully to a level where we can see quick changes.
  • Still encourages exploration if the heart vendors used are spread across the world, and preferentially chosen in parts of zones that traditionally people don’t level in.
  • Adept trait books could be available from level-appropriate heart vendors, costing only karma once the player completes the vendor’s task (like other heart vendor items). The level of these heart vendors should be spread out, so that some traits can be unlocked immediately (at 30) and others won’t be available until higher level (max vendor level should be ~55).
  • Master trait guides are supposed to require more effort than Adept ones, so maybe they could be spread out over several heart vendors. For example, to get a single Master guide you may have to complete tasks for 3 different heart vendors in different zones, buy a piece from each vendor with karma, and then combine the pieces (via existing double-click mechanic) to get the actual guide. The heart vendors could be of pretty much any level (max ~75).
  • Grandmaster trait guides should be the exception to this change, being far too valuable to put on heart vendors. Here we rely on the new system, but now we have more options. There are currently 15 grandmaster traits per class, and there are currently 65 trait unlock quests. Pick 15 of the best unlock quests (see next bullet) and assign those to the grandmaster trait slots.
  • “The best” = Quests that require a group to complete (at least 2 people, no more than 5) and which represent a cross-section of the entirety of the desired GW2 experience. Since the character has to be level 80 to use the guide, these quests can be of any level and be anywhere: Orr, dungeons, WvW, …
  • The code for the 50 removed quests should be saved for some future use, of course… perhaps someday we can have class-specific or even trait-specific trait unlocks, and some of these might come into play then.

Thanks to whoever posted first about using heart vendors, and thanks for listening.

P.S. I just realized that I am posting the most about traits, one of the few things in the patch which does not affect me (lv 80 in each class). Which just goes to show that I’m posting because I care about the game, not because I have any personal stake in this. Yay me!

(edited by rstripn.8697)

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Posted by: felessan.9587

felessan.9587

So, I’ve had a chance to look through some of the trait acquisition finally (thank you Dulfy for the guide) and some of it makes me scratch my head. Map completion of Gendarren, really? Might be a bit much for a single trait acquisition. True, you might be doing this to level your character anyway from 25 to 35, but it still seems a bit extravagant. My proposition is thus:

There are currently 6 adept, 4 master, and 3 grandmaster traits. With traits starting at 30, you can effective lock a trait to an event, boss, etc per every 5 levels, per line.

Trait 1 = lvl 30 boss, event, story mission, etc.
Trait 2 = lvl 35 "
Trait 3 = lvl 40 "
etc, etc

Then people might feel a little better about acquiring these as they go, and not feel like they are insanely out of reach. I do suggest mixing them up some though, spread them out around the world and not necessarily make them the same task from profession to profession. I mean right now Line 1, Trait 1 is the lvl 55 story mission for everyone. That’s kinda boring.

Additionally, I would suggest that maybe wvw tasks be left for later level acquisition tasks. This way players have some traits under their belt when they enter wvw.

Or Lornar’s Pass. I haven’t been to Lornar’s since the Marionette, so maybe with the Megaserver in place, it will seem less boring, but it’s a huge map and a total snooze-fest.

I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but the WvW unlocks actually aren’t that bad. There are only eight total. Three of them are captures of the towers in EotM, which require nothing but following a zerg, which is pretty easy to find there, stand in a big circle, and don’t die. I actually did this with my most recent alt at level 3. The Overgrown Grub isn’t a difficult event either. Take a ranged weapon and stay alert. The befriend events aren’t so bad either, though they get a little tougher because you do need to be able to inflict actual damage and not just stand in a circle. The only WvW unlock that’s actually hard is the Obsidian Sanctum puzzle. I fully agree, make that a Master level unlock instead so players have a fighting chance against all the murderers who hang out there and pick off AP hunters.

(edited by felessan.9587)

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Posted by: Astasia.1459

Astasia.1459

Haven’t posted in a while. Just came here to say I absolutely hate everything about this new trait system and would like it reverted to the way it was before. Leveling new characters is now boring and frustrating. Spending that point every level was something to look forward to when you ding, the large gaps are now frustrating, and pushing back the level we start getting points was just a terrible decision and makes the low levels even less tolerable. The explanation that your players are too stupid to figure out 15/10 is better than 14/11 is insulting.

I can’t say much about the locking of traits behind unreasonable activities as there is no way in hell anyone could convince me to make a brand new character from this point on. I luckily had my characters all created and just sitting around at lower levels waiting to be leveled. I think you should have kept all the current traits free and added a bunch more that needed unlocking. Making new players work 5 times as hard to get the same stuff everyone else got for free is just asinine.

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Posted by: Nynuwe.5893

Nynuwe.5893

I actually want to unlock my traits without paying, but some are literally out of my character’s grasp because they are locked behind high level zones where she will be one shotted by a glance from the monsters. It doesn’t feel like an option when I’m basically being shoehorned into paying for those traits.

Many of the people in this thread actually LIKE the idea of hunting for traits. But what the majority of those are dissatisfied about is that too many of the Adept traits are gated behind high level content – which means that we won’t be able to access them at the traits’ appropriate levels.

We are not asking for free hand outs. We are not begrudging having to play. Actually the problem is that we do want to play and hunt for traits, but we can’t at the level we are supposed to unlock them. When my little thief gets to 36, she won’t be able to complete Frostgorge Sound. She won’t be able to complete Fireheart Rise. She won’t be able to do “A Light in the Darkness”. She won’t be able to do “Battle for Claw Island.” Ect ect. I will have to pay for these traits to obtain them at the appropriate level and lose the opportunity to PLAY to get these specific traits.

Many of us are not against the theory and the intent of what ANet was hoping to achieve. We are not against playing the game. We want to enjoy and play this content. We really do. But the requirements for some of the trait unlocks have to be LEVEL APPROPRIATE for that to happen.

Just reassigning these quests so that they are of the level zone the traits belong to would fix this.
———————————-
I also would suggest that the quests be actually related to the traits in question. Traits that are similar in effect but for different classes could share the same quest. Just a suggestion.

When Revenant does better than Necro
in every playstyle imaginable,
they’ll call it a day and release HoT.

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Posted by: Nynuwe.5893

Nynuwe.5893

Hey, yet another post from me about trait unlocks!

I really like the idea of using heart vendors to help fix quest-based trait unlocks.

  • Leverages an existing mechanic instead of having to code a new one: reduces time and expense, hopefully to a level where we can see quick changes.
  • Still encourages exploration if the heart vendors used are spread across the world, and preferentially chosen in parts of zones that traditionally people don’t level in.
  • Adept trait books could be available from level-appropriate heart vendors, costing only karma once the player completes the vendor’s task (like other heart vendor items). The level of these heart vendors should be spread out, so that some traits can be unlocked immediately (at 30) and others won’t be available until higher level (max vendor level should be ~55).
  • Master trait guides are supposed to require more effort than Adept ones, so maybe they could be spread out over several heart vendors. For example, to get a single Master guide you may have to complete tasks for 3 different heart vendors in different zones, buy a piece from each vendor with karma, and then combine the pieces (via existing double-click mechanic) to get the actual guide. The heart vendors could be of pretty much any level (max ~75).
  • Grandmaster trait guides should be the exception to this change, being far too valuable to put on heart vendors. Here we rely on the new system, but now we have more options. There are currently 15 grandmaster traits per class, and there are currently 65 trait unlock quests. Pick 15 of the best unlock quests (see next bullet) and assign those to the grandmaster trait slots.
  • “The best” = Quests that require a group to complete (at least 2 people, no more than 5) and which represent a cross-section of the entirety of the desired GW2 experience. Since the character has to be level 80 to use the guide, these quests can be of any level and be anywhere: Orr, dungeons, WvW, …
  • The code for the 50 removed quests should be saved for some future use, of course… perhaps someday we can have class-specific or even trait-specific trait unlocks, and some of these might come into play then.

Thanks to whoever posted first about using heart vendors, and thanks for listening.

P.S. I just realized that I am posting the most about traits, one of the few things in the patch which does not affect me (lv 80 in each class). Which just goes to show that I’m posting because I care about the game, not because I have any personal stake in this. Yay me!

I love when players offer good ideas. Makes me feel so giddy and happy on the inside. <3 The idea of heart vendors simplifies the system (which is what ANet was supposedly striving for) in a reasonable and accessible way that can still be fun for people. The idea of saving those 50 removed quests for some class specific traits and GM traits where applicabale would help spice things up. Good job thinking this through!

When Revenant does better than Necro
in every playstyle imaginable,
they’ll call it a day and release HoT.

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Posted by: Nynuwe.5893

Nynuwe.5893

So, I’ve had a chance to look through some of the trait acquisition finally (thank you Dulfy for the guide) and some of it makes me scratch my head. Map completion of Gendarren, really? Might be a bit much for a single trait acquisition. True, you might be doing this to level your character anyway from 25 to 35, but it still seems a bit extravagant. My proposition is thus:

There are currently 6 adept, 4 master, and 3 grandmaster traits. With traits starting at 30, you can effective lock a trait to an event, boss, etc per every 5 levels, per line.

Trait 1 = lvl 30 boss, event, story mission, etc.
Trait 2 = lvl 35 "
Trait 3 = lvl 40 "
etc, etc

Then people might feel a little better about acquiring these as they go, and not feel like they are insanely out of reach. I do suggest mixing them up some though, spread them out around the world and not necessarily make them the same task from profession to profession. I mean right now Line 1, Trait 1 is the lvl 55 story mission for everyone. That’s kinda boring.

Additionally, I would suggest that maybe wvw tasks be left for later level acquisition tasks. This way players have some traits under their belt when they enter wvw.

Or Lornar’s Pass. I haven’t been to Lornar’s since the Marionette, so maybe with the Megaserver in place, it will seem less boring, but it’s a huge map and a total snooze-fest.

I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but the WvW unlocks actually aren’t that bad. There are only eight total. Three of them are captures of the towers in EotM, which require nothing but following a zerg, which is pretty easy to find there, stand in a big circle, and don’t die. I actually did this with my most recent alt at level 3. The Overgrown Grub isn’t a difficult event either. Take a ranged weapon and stay alert. The befriend events aren’t so bad either, though they get a little tougher because you do need to be able to inflict actual damage and not just stand in a circle. The only WvW unlock that’s actually hard is the Obsidian Sanctum puzzle. I fully agree, make that a Master level unlock instead so players have a fighting chance against all the murderers who hang out there and pick off AP hunters.

These are also great suggestions. This thread is full of great ideas from players who care to see GW2 grow and improve.

When Revenant does better than Necro
in every playstyle imaginable,
they’ll call it a day and release HoT.

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Posted by: shogei.8015

shogei.8015

Since repairs are free, it more than makes up for adding a cost for traits. The only bad part is some people getting a trait they needed a lot later in game, like crack shot for warriors.

Except they already “made up for” the free repair by reducing coin drops. Therefore the additional trait costs are simply additional costs.

I like the idea of trait capture but the trait acquisition should be related to the trait level itself. Adept traits should all be captured in level 30-50 zones, Master in 51-70. Grandmaster in 71+. I would also like to see different professions require different unlocks, but can understand how this might be too difficult to balance.

I think the heart vendor option is a good one. It does require people to explore and do things, but doesn’t require them to grind through a map exploration if they are not really into doing that.

Guild warrior for life!

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Posted by: Wolfy Shadowheart.6798

Wolfy Shadowheart.6798

I’m mostly a WvW player and I loved leveling alts in WvW but the new system really changes how I used to play. I already have 9 alts that have done missions and map exploration and I don’t want to go through that again. I just want to go into WvW on the alt I’m leveling and run with some friends for that short amount of time I have to play.

I was thinking of how to make the new trait system be friendly to WvW-only players and came up with this idea that at each trait point if you have a certain number of kill credits, captures credits, and meet the level requirement you would get a random trait unlock.

Here is basically what I was thinking.
The numbers would change based on the data that Anet has so this is just a visualization of it.

Level 30 – 10 Kills 3 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 33 – 15 Kills 6 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 36 – 20 Kills 9 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 39 – 25 Kills 12 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 42 – 30 Kills 15 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 45 – 35 Kills 18 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 48 – 40 Kills 21 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 51 – 45 Kills 24 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 54 – 50 Kills 27 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 57 – 55 Kills 30 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 60 – 60 Kills 33 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 62 – 67 Kills 38 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 64 – 74 Kills 43 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 66 – 81 Kills 48 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 68 – 88 Kills 53 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 70 – 95 Kills 58 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 72 – 102 Kills 63 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 74 – 109 Kills 68 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 76 – 116 Kills 73 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 78 – 123 Kills 78 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 130 Kills 83 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 137 Kills 88 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 144 Kills 93 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 151 Kills 98 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 158 Kills 103 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 165 Kills 108 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 172 Kills 113 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 179 Kills 118 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 186 Kills 123 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 193 Kills 128 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock

There wouldn’t be any Overgrown grub to kill either because really the only time we’ve ever killed it was when we were bored and had the people to do it.

Game Updates: Traits

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Posted by: Daerian.6523

Daerian.6523

Let me sum this situation up.
I love alts. I always have too many characters in MMO to really gear them properly. In GW2 I have 9 level 80 characters – every profession on level 80, and I made second warrior as I didn’t really like my first. All in full exotics, with my main characters getting close to full ascended. This should show that I really like making and leveling alts.
I have 2 more characters, one is level 33 engineer made before patch and second is made after patch Guardian. I waited with making her until patch to test “trait hunting”, as this idea interested me.

My opinions after patch? I really wish I had made her before patch. Trait hunting is absurdly badly designed (Frostgorge Sound for adept trait is best example) and costs are absurd (28 gold and 260 skill points for full unlock – seriously?). I wanted to buy one more slot to make third guardian – Charr, but now I’m certainly not going to – just making this one actual Guardian alt in new system will so big chore to do, that I will probably never make new character again. And because this system so bad that it makes me – person with severe altitis ;-) – bored and burned out enought to not make next alt, I’m pretty sure many new players will not make more than one, max two characters at all.
Which probably wouldn’t be a problem for Anet, except one thing in Gemshop is additional character slot for more than 5 characters. Which will probably be used FAR less now than before patch.

Unless someone at Anet will see this problem and decrease unused free slots for every account to two as new, perfectly intelligent and wise, business decision.

Game Updates: Traits

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Posted by: alex.7950

alex.7950

if there are more option to unlock those traits will more better.
how about some profession-specific event/boss event in tryia?
or players can unlock it in WvW sometime?
now the problem is the progression of gaining the traits are SO FIXED.
via the profession-specific event, we will know more lore of GW2.
via the boss event, we can catch’em all just like gw1 way.

the Main Point is – multi-way to unlock traits, not a only way for minor traits

when i see trait1 #1 need to Complete the 55lv story step, i just feel like so bad to new players. this really bad design to force players to do what, if they dont, you just cost their time and money to buy those “minor” traits. so bad enough.

Game Updates: Traits

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Posted by: Nynuwe.5893

Nynuwe.5893

I’m mostly a WvW player and I loved leveling alts in WvW but the new system really changes how I used to play. I already have 9 alts that have done missions and map exploration and I don’t want to go through that again. I just want to go into WvW on the alt I’m leveling and run with some friends for that short amount of time I have to play.

I was thinking of how to make the new trait system be friendly to WvW-only players and came up with this idea that at each trait point if you have a certain number of kill credits, captures credits, and meet the level requirement you would get a random trait unlock.

Here is basically what I was thinking.
The numbers would change based on the data that Anet has so this is just a visualization of it.

Level 30 – 10 Kills 3 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 33 – 15 Kills 6 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 36 – 20 Kills 9 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 39 – 25 Kills 12 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 42 – 30 Kills 15 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 45 – 35 Kills 18 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 48 – 40 Kills 21 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 51 – 45 Kills 24 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 54 – 50 Kills 27 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 57 – 55 Kills 30 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 60 – 60 Kills 33 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 62 – 67 Kills 38 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 64 – 74 Kills 43 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 66 – 81 Kills 48 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 68 – 88 Kills 53 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 70 – 95 Kills 58 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 72 – 102 Kills 63 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 74 – 109 Kills 68 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 76 – 116 Kills 73 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 78 – 123 Kills 78 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 130 Kills 83 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 137 Kills 88 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 144 Kills 93 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 151 Kills 98 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 158 Kills 103 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 165 Kills 108 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 172 Kills 113 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 179 Kills 118 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 186 Kills 123 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 193 Kills 128 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock

There wouldn’t be any Overgrown grub to kill either because really the only time we’ve ever killed it was when we were bored and had the people to do it.

This is a great alternative for WvW players. I think a great way to implement this along with the PvE suggestions is to offer both these playstyle choices besides the pay choice. I really like the heart vendor idea, for example. So perhaps each trait will then have three choices? One is a specific goup of heart vendors, the other is a specific amount of kills/capture in WvW, and the third is a reasonable gold cost. And there you have it! Three choices for each trait that motivates map exploration for both PvE and WvW players who have the time and desire to play to acquire rather than the pay option.

When Revenant does better than Necro
in every playstyle imaginable,
they’ll call it a day and release HoT.

Game Updates: Traits

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Posted by: Black Lotus.7318

Black Lotus.7318

For the most part, I enjoy being able to earn my traits. It encourages people to explore content and gives a significant feeling of character progression as they level up. However, there was a major issue that many people have brought up.

Several traits require 100% completion of a certain map, which is fine. The issue however, is that an adept level trait, that a character can supposedly unlock at level 30, requires map completion of some areas that are well over their level (Frostgourge Sound, Sparkfly Fen, etc). I agree that higher leveled traits should require more effort, but traits should be attainable for the level they were designed to be made available for. I suggest changing the maps to either a) lower level maps across the board, which include Kessex Hills, Snowden Rifts, etc. or b) offer level appropriate bosses or events to complete based on that trait tier.