Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

blakdoxa.7520:

@those comparing Gw2 trait gathering to Gw1 skill capturing

Theses two systems are vastly different from each other. I don’t even understand how people can even compare the acquisition methods….

GW2 trait hunting is superficially similar to GW elite skills — you do something in game to get something you can use with your build. It’s also superficially similar to the 30 extra stat points available in GW via questing. The differences you allude to are the point of contention.
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@ those saying that L36 abilities obtainable via doing content much later in the leveling process is fine, please answer these questions honestly.

• If a new game came out with this mechanic, what would the general reaction from the public be? Would the design be lauded as a great one?
• If the intent is to make certain adept traits unavailable until later in the leveling process, why allow them to be bought for coin and skill points?
• Normally, higher level content is going to be perceived as more difficult than lower level content. If two traits which are at the same tier — which would presumably mean they are approximately equal in value — are available through content playable at vastly different levels, is the system balanced appropriately?

Very good questions…

Not sure if this has been said, or if this is the right place to say it. But can you guys go through and make sure that none of the events to get the traits require some sort of failure. This just makes things difficult. I just saw a group of people finish the Lyssa defense event while everyone around asked them to stop. They basically blocked the priestess from spawning and griefed everyone who waited all that time out of their grandmaster traits. In general it should never require someone to lose to gain more abilities. It even sounds wrong.

I’d even be okay with the priestess spawning as part of the defense, or the defense counting for the trait. Just having to wait for the undead to take it just so you can take it back is so tedious.

First off I’d like to say thanks Anet for the good things. Thanks for:

Free trait resets
Trait resets on the fly
Streamlined trait tiers
New traits

Having said that I can’t help but be upset with the implementation of the new trait acquisition system. I had a character that was at lvl 57 when the patch hit. She is now at lvl 72 and it just sucks how slow you unlock the traits. I can’t imagine playing another character from scratch. Part of what made the old system good was the sense of molding the character as early as lvl 11, working toward that first minor trait, then major and so on. It made you look forward to each level knowing the build was slowly coming together.

The new system feels like its a grind through 66 levels before there is even a semblance of a build. I understand streamlining the tiers of traits to 1 point per minor and major to make it easier to create a build for a new player. But making them wait to lvl 30 just to start a build is insane and what’s worse for the game is it’s boring.

The new illusion trait for mesmers does the same damage moving as it does normally according to its text. Since you don’t get dot feedback in the combat feed I can’t tell if it is lying or broken.

As it stands at the moment, I’m waiting for Anet to fix the trait system. I can’t play my new ele, knowing how much more I have to invest just to get a trait (not even talking about the lv30 issue) than what I used to and how I am getting nothing new in return for the added investment.

I’ve seen more issues leveling up now, than when I was using my 80 and that has it’s own issues. Leveling is just the worst it’s been. I’d rather play Skyrim for it’s incredibly dull gameplay, over trying to overcome the obstacles of leveling. And when I get to 80, what would I get? The same endgame every one has had for the last year and a half.

I’m honestly waiting for Archeage now, or I may start FFXIV as that is the best on the market at the moment. I feel tired and bored after mere minutes of logging in, as the game has made itself a checklist and it’s an absolute chore. Why implement a trait switching system, when the traits aren’t even obtainable until you’re 20 levels above getting the second trait?

Anet has just made stupid mistakes after the next, not even asked the community if this would actually be a step that we would appreciate, and it’s just draining to play this kitten.

I jump on here to read what if anything has changed since the switch over to this new mess.
What I haven’t done is logged into the game and won’t until they fix it.
Now I’ve started playing Guild Wars 1 again and to be honest I’m enjoying it more than this game even before the change.
The best way I know to show ANET that you’re not happy with the game is don’t play it.

Romo.3709:

Or have trait unlock account based. So once your alt is appropriate level to get into the next level of traits they’d be unlocked as long as you get them unlocked on your main toon.

This would at least make the game alt friendly again.

Make a new character, and play it from scratch. Don’t buy a single trait, because a new player doesn’t really have the SP to spend on them. Tell us how you feel about the system after you have actually tried it out for yourself. And no, unlocking the GM traits does not count. You are at the level you should be, you know the game, and its a zerg fest. Unlocking the new traits is fine.

Imagine you were a new player and this was what your first experience was and you had no idea about the system until it unlocked.

People are pointing out the inherent flaw in gating Adept traits behind high level content that is inaccessible to characters at Adept level range. The problem with acquiring most of the Adept traits have absolutely no relevance nor effect on GM trait acquisition. GM traits are gated behind level appropriate content. Most Adept traits aren’t. Let’s not get these two mixed up, please. They are not valid counter arguments of the other.

For Science:

New Ranger – Level 80

46.5 hours played
SM Dungeons: AC, CM, TA, SE
Map Completion: 22%
Personal Story: level 53
Crafted to 400: Cooking, Arti., Jewel
Lots of EotM karma train

30 / 30 Adept Traits – Captured 7 ( 23 % ), bought the rest.
3 / 20 Master Traits – Captured 2, bought the remaining one
0 Grand master traits.

The reason I played the way I did, was that I felt I needed to rush to 80, in order to go into the higher level zones, to get the rest of my traits. I really wished I did not feel this need to rush, and that I could play around with traits and builds while I level.

But hey I am 80 now…I’l just go to dungeons with a 3,3,3,3,2 build for a while… and get the rest whenever… xD

Personal Input: Playing mostly for pvp, I have never enjoyed having to use pve currency (skill points and gold) to unlock abilities so that I can test them.

With 8 characters, we have 40 traits and 8 healing abilities to purchase with skillpoints. That’s 20 skill points per trait and 25 per heal, giving us a whopping 1,000 skill points to unlock them all. After completing 2 paths and gaining 4 ranks, I have managed to gather enough skill points to purchase 2 of the new traits. That’s roughly 130 games played, for 2 traits.

Most would respond with “just go get them in PvE” or some other inane comment which doesn’t address the issue of kitten needing pve currency for pvp. I don’t like zerg trains, I don’t like easily abusing npc ai to kill anything with enough time, I LIKE fighting other players. I like getting to try new things constantly, switching traits and skills around in hotjoin, tweaking and testing until I go into queue. I don’t like that everything new added requires immense amounts of time to simply -try- the new toys. Hell, half those traits don’t look like they’ll be worth anything, but I still want to see what they can do.

I like the changes, for the most part. The newest layer of paint is slightly brighter than the last one. But you missed a spot, and that’s remembering many pvpers don’t like pve content. How was this forgotten here? It’s just… Whatever. Eventually, I’ll get some of those traits, or go back to WoW for the new expansion. It’s not likely that anet will change how they’ve been for gw2.

It is sad though, because it’s an entertaining thing, it’s just little crap like this that kittenes me off.

Feedback done, and my condolences to those who have more than 8 characters.

Creld.8702:

Personal Input: Playing mostly for pvp, I have never enjoyed having to use pve currency (skill points and gold) to unlock abilities so that I can test them.

With 8 characters, we have 40 traits and 8 healing abilities to purchase with skillpoints. That’s 20 skill points per trait and 25 per heal, giving us a whopping 1,000 skill points to unlock them all. After completing 2 paths and gaining 4 ranks, I have managed to gather enough skill points to purchase 2 of the new traits. That’s roughly 130 games played, for 2 traits.

Most would respond with “just go get them in PvE” or some other inane comment which doesn’t address the issue of kitten needing pve currency for pvp. I don’t like zerg trains, I don’t like easily abusing npc ai to kill anything with enough time, I LIKE fighting other players. I like getting to try new things constantly, switching traits and skills around in hotjoin, tweaking and testing until I go into queue. I don’t like that everything new added requires immense amounts of time to simply -try- the new toys. Hell, half those traits don’t look like they’ll be worth anything, but I still want to see what they can do.

I like the changes, for the most part. The newest layer of paint is slightly brighter than the last one. But you missed a spot, and that’s remembering many pvpers don’t like pve content. How was this forgotten here? It’s just… Whatever. Eventually, I’ll get some of those traits, or go back to WoW for the new expansion. It’s not likely that anet will change how they’ve been for gw2.

It is sad though, because it’s an entertaining thing, it’s just little crap like this that kittenes me off.

Feedback done, and my condolences to those who have more than 8 characters.

I have more than 8 characters and am having a blast. Thank you for your condolences but I do not need them. Good luck with PvP though, I can unserstand that PvE players should not have to do PvP sPvP , WvW to play their PvE game. I can also see the reverse. While it is easier for a PvE player to get his or her hands On Gold and Skillpoints to Just pay for the skills, it is Not the same from the PvP perspective. Never having been a PvP player… I cannot really say. I do hope that Anet does tweek the game a bit on some of these systems.

rstripn.8697:

Hey, yet another post from me about trait unlocks!

Thanks to whoever posted first about using heart vendors, and thanks for listening.

P.S. I just realized that I am posting the most about traits, one of the few things in the patch which does not affect me (lv 80 in each class). Which just goes to show that I’m posting because I care about the game, not because I have any personal stake in this. Yay me!

I think I have posted something about using heart vendors (and event vendors) but I have not thought about dividing the Master traits between 2 or more vendors. That would be very nice!

Also, I think the system of using heart vendors would allow for a trait to be attainable in more than 1 place. There are at least 3 maps in the 30-40 range, they should all be viable for getting traits and I see no problem in more than one of them selling the same trait, giving players options on how to explore.

Even better would be if the heart vendor was profession-related, like, a heart vendor who is a guardian selling guardian traits. But some classes have almost no representatives among the heart vendors (mesmers for example). It could still be retconned (oh, that apple pie selling lady at Queensdale is a aspiring mesmer who can teach a mesmer trait or a mesmer skill).

That would be a awesome way to get traits or skills, and would give back relevance to heart vendors, who by my evaluation rarely have something useful.

Please, this thread has been overall kept civil and productive, many people have brought up great suggestions, creative and good constructive criticism of the new system with the desire to help ANet improve and remain in line with their unique and casual-friendly gaming philosophy. Let’s not turn this into a free-for-all.

DDCarvalho.2071:

rstripn.8697:

Hey, yet another post from me about trait unlocks!

Thanks to whoever posted first about using heart vendors, and thanks for listening.

P.S. I just realized that I am posting the most about traits, one of the few things in the patch which does not affect me (lv 80 in each class). Which just goes to show that I’m posting because I care about the game, not because I have any personal stake in this. Yay me!

I think I have posted something about using heart vendors (and event vendors) but I have not thought about dividing the Master traits between 2 or more vendors. That would be very nice!

Also, I think the system of using heart vendors would allow for a trait to be attainable in more than 1 place. There are at least 3 maps in the 30-40 range, they should all be viable for getting traits and I see no problem in more than one of them selling the same trait, giving players options on how to explore.

Even better would be if the heart vendor was profession-related, like, a heart vendor who is a guardian selling guardian traits. But some classes have almost no representatives among the heart vendors (mesmers for example). It could still be retconned (oh, that apple pie selling lady at Queensdale is a aspiring mesmer who can teach a mesmer trait or a mesmer skill).

That would be a awesome way to get traits or skills, and would give back relevance to heart vendors, who by my evaluation rarely have something useful.

The heart vendor idea between you do is very good, and I really love the sound of it. It makes great use of the maps, motivating players to explore them, it can be easily made level appropriate, offer little grind, and grants a reward for an aspect of the game that grants little reward by itself so it’s a great additional compliment to that aspect of the game. I also believe that this ideas ties in very well with this WvW-focused one:

Wolfy Shadowheart.6798:

I’m mostly a WvW player and I loved leveling alts in WvW but the new system really changes how I used to play.

Level 30 – 10 Kills 3 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 33 – 15 Kills 6 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 36 – 20 Kills 9 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 39 – 25 Kills 12 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 42 – 30 Kills 15 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 45 – 35 Kills 18 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 48 – 40 Kills 21 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 51 – 45 Kills 24 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 54 – 50 Kills 27 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 57 – 55 Kills 30 Captures 1 Adept Trait Unlock
Level 60 – 60 Kills 33 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 62 – 67 Kills 38 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 64 – 74 Kills 43 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 66 – 81 Kills 48 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 68 – 88 Kills 53 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 70 – 95 Kills 58 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 72 – 102 Kills 63 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 74 – 109 Kills 68 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 76 – 116 Kills 73 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 78 – 123 Kills 78 Captures 1 Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 130 Kills 83 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 137 Kills 88 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 144 Kills 93 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 151 Kills 98 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 158 Kills 103 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 165 Kills 108 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 172 Kills 113 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 179 Kills 118 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 186 Kills 123 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock
Level 80 – 193 Kills 128 Captures 1 Grand Master Trait Unlock

There wouldn’t be any Overgrown grub to kill either because really the only time we’ve ever killed it was when we were bored and had the people to do it.

I think it would be a marvelous idea if instead of just two venues to acquire traits, we devide them into three. A PvE path which is centered on hearts. A WvW one which is centered on number of kills and captures. And pure currency one that uses gold. I would highly recommend ANet that they either remove the skill point cost from Adept level traits and lower the costs of Master and Grandmaster, or make skill points account bound due to skill points being scarce during the first half of the leveling experience. I had to give skill point scrolls to my thief to be able to buy the Adept traits she literally cannot access during the Adept level range, yet I have other high level characters who have skill points to spare.

Invariably it’s a pretty bad time for new players and the current direction Anet is going will leave a lot of newcomers frustrated for sure. MMOs generally get easier/more accessible over time, so what’s the deal? Is this some scheme to draw out playtime?

1) The new trait system with its issues as mentioned throughout the thread. I can’t imagine how anyone is supposed to enjoy leveling a Mesmer or Engineer. WvW was enjoyable from lvl 30 or so, but now seems like a waste of time unless you are 80.
2) Huge inflation on gold to gems compared to release and subsequent nerfing of farming and dungeon runs.
3) Massive losses in the ability to gain karma compared to release.
4) No more unidentified dye drops, which like the previous trait progression, added excitement early on.
5) The new events system, which not only makes the whole experience less organic, but also ruins peoples’ experiences based on their timezone.

A quick question, sorry if this has been asked or answered but I dont have enough time to read everything : is it intended that you can’t unlock the new traits in the defense part of Arah gates and of Lyssa ?
Are we supposed to just pay the price in gold or is it planned to fix it ?

KratosAngel.7289:

A quick question, sorry if this has been asked or answered but I dont have enough time to read everything : is it intended that you can’t unlock the new traits in the defense part of Arah gates and of Lyssa ?
Are we supposed to just pay the price in gold or is it planned to fix it ?

I thought they already fixed that? Are you still currently experiencing the “Defense Gives Nada” situation?

There were announcements about Invigorating Precision as a buff for thief – finally. And when I read the notes and saw that I need to replace it with the executioner trait (remember that this is one of the best traits ingame), I was really disappointed.
Every raw dmg montage on thief is based on 30 in critical strikes. There is no space for other things. But this means that some GM traits are rarely used.

The effect of some some professions aren’t worth it to be on the GM traitline.

Ok, tried it out. The trait system needs work

the pushback to 30 is noticeable, a lot of basic traits you would be able to mess around with at 20 are now far later in the progression. The beginning you get bored fast. The only thing you have to mess with is your weapons, and i cant see that lasting much longer past 20. So then you got 10 levels of nothing really interesting going on.
once you hit 30, your next skill is essentially 6 levels away, and you can do very few to none of the skill unlocks at this level.

It feels more like this was designed for high end players who are somehow making a level 60-80 new charachter. traits are effectively offlimits until like 50.

While it could have been a nice extra progression for low levels, it doesnt work that way at all.

this system works with new traits, and probably with new skills, but its really bad as a core progression in its current iteration.

Nynuwe.5893:

KratosAngel.7289:

A quick question, sorry if this has been asked or answered but I dont have enough time to read everything : is it intended that you can’t unlock the new traits in the defense part of Arah gates and of Lyssa ?
Are we supposed to just pay the price in gold or is it planned to fix it ?

I thought they already fixed that? Are you still currently experiencing the “Defense Gives Nada” situation?

Not sure what is meant by the above. I have done both the Defeat the Risen High Wizard, and the Defeat the High Priestess of Lyssa" events to unlock the GM traits.

It can be done, but what we did was play it safe. We assumed that defending would get us Nothing, no matter what people said, we allowed the Risen to overrun the place, then we attacked when we saw the High Priestess, Risen High Wizard.

It does take some communication on map chat, explaining to players not aware, that to get the GM traits Risen need to be allowed to take over the Temple etc.

As long as no one is greifing by yelling things Like.“They are the griefers, you need to defend or x will not spawn.” (Something needs to be done about this.) Then getting The High Priestess and The High Wizard will spawn.

So…. 15 pages in. Any input on Anet’s part? Or is it gonna be like Fractured update all over again?

Nerelith.7360:

Nynuwe.5893:

KratosAngel.7289:

A quick question, sorry if this has been asked or answered but I dont have enough time to read everything : is it intended that you can’t unlock the new traits in the defense part of Arah gates and of Lyssa ?
Are we supposed to just pay the price in gold or is it planned to fix it ?

I thought they already fixed that? Are you still currently experiencing the “Defense Gives Nada” situation?

Not sure what is meant by the above. I have done both the Defeat the Risen High Wizard, and the Defeat the High Priestess of Lyssa" events to unlock the GM traits.

It can be done, but what we did was play it safe. We assumed that defending would get us Nothing, no matter what people said, we allowed the Risen to overrun the place, then we attacked when we saw the High Priestess, Risen High Wizard.

It does take some communication on map chat, explaining to players not aware, that to get the GM traits Risen need to be allowed to take over the Temple etc.

As long as no one is greifing by yelling things Like.“They are the griefers, you need to defend or x will not spawn.” (Something needs to be done about this.) Then getting The High Priestess and The High Wizard will spawn.

i would just like to add to my wife’s comment here by saying we have done all 5 and did not buy a single GM trait at all we did all the content that was required and got all 5 yes it did take some waiting but eventually you do get there , i agree with my wife in the respect we have started new ones and find the new trait system both fun and interesting , i also agree with there were a lot of griefers especially around lyssa while we were there and yes it did make it fail and this need to be addressed as you have to wait for hours to get that GM trait for some griefer or troll to mess it up while others are saying what to do that one griefer can mess the whole thing up and we did see one fail due to one griefer the other day , these traits are not unattainable or impossible they can actually be done with as my wife says communication on map chat and also co-operation of others i agree with my wife as we are starting new ones and i for one agree with her in saying i like it and yes its fine how it is

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Please change defending Lyssa’s temple to also grant the trait.
I’ve tried to get this one since release, camping it for hours, the temple has not been contested even once. I have 8 characters that need unlocking…
I could easily buy the trait it from my trainer, but it feels like skipping content. I prefer to actually play the game.

Please move the trait from Karka Queen to something that is available much more often, or even better remove her and the 2 really big bosses from this stupid schedule. The spawn times are well outside of most employed adults’ game time in Europe.

Please gate traits through level appropriate content. An example: Speedy Kits is the first trait recommended for engineers to make exploring Tyria more fun. By the time you can fulfill the requirement you are mostly done with exploring.

these are not impossible to get i have got all of them all 5 without spending anything and they are easy enough to do read the wiki on how you do these and i am sure it will help you

no point in attacking specific people if you disagree with their ideas, say what you disagree with about their ideas.

My position.
Unlocking of traits is good and interesting
Pushing the level back to 30 makes leveling 1-30 fairly boring. While i know some people didnt use them/or care, many people did. Its not really about difficulty in this case, its about boringness.

Even beyond the level pushback lets look at.

• Trait aquisition gripes
  • doesnt feel like a progressive system you hit 30, and your traits are spread seemingly randomly looks like the level range is 15-70 and two different game modes.Which is pretty odd for something that you ideally would be able to pick whatever one is most useful to you at level 36. One would assume since you put it in for midlevel charachters it would be something that would lead them through the world and towards content but that is not the case.
  • The trait aquisition has no context, this may seem a bit cosmetic, most people dont care about immersion or lore, but it isnt just cosmetic. The fact that there is no context makes it jarring for players, and makes people looking for certain playstyles do things that are against their playstyle.
  • for example: trait aquisition for feedback bubble, a defensive/supportive skill for reviving allies. Placed in a WvW jumping puzzle? would someone interested in this trait probably be attracted to a jumping puzzle in WvW? a puzzle often done solo, and seperated, where even if your friends are with you, they probably died due to falling, and dont need a revive
  • extremely noob unfriendly, i have been playing the game since start and have done almost everything on the list at least once. Even i see some things and i have very little idea how to get them without looking for a guide. Not only that but you have to look at every single trait to figure out what is actually level appropriate. Perhaps the colors the gave it fine/masterwork/rare etc should have been more based around level ranges to obtain said skills.

Its basically a system better suited to a high level player. It should have probably been something mostly for top level players, essentially special skills.

I think most new players will end up buying the skills, and many repeated players. If that was the intent, the prices are probably a bit high.

Definitely more suited towards players with high level characters and “lots of gold” as to bypass leveling through crafting w/boosters.

I find the only way I can even remotely enjoy leveling now is through eotm… Having to ride the exp/karma train….
Not very exciting at all…

And don’t people understand what rhetoric is here???
When did things get so personal…

Elementalist:
-Blinding Ashes: please make the ICD per target. The concept of the trait is perfect, but in practice it does not work at all this way.
-Lightning Rod: it’s weird, because ele doesn’t have enough interrupt to mke a build centered around them, and thus this trait is outclassed by the original two grandmaster traits. It would be god if there was a reliable interrupt without a 40 second cooldown…
-Elemental Contingency. Absolutely useless. Elemental Attunement gives more boons for more duration, and you don’t have to get hit for it. As with Blinding Ashes, the ICD cripples the trait. It makes it hard to guess when you will get a boon from any of your attunements, because each boon has a different duration, and you can’t time when the ICD is over. Even if the ICD was per attunement, the concept of the trait, utility trough boons, will still be uterly outclassed by evasive arcana. This trait is better off being redesigned, or put at the 5-point trait spot.

I returned from vacation, anxious to see this new trait revamp. And now that I have, I’m pretty much done with this game.

I don’t mind participating in events to unlock traits, but I am sick of the gold/gem farm this game has turned into. Just gets worse and worse. Used to pay 2 gold to unlock all Grandmaster traits. Now it’s more gold with skill points added in for single traits. To hell with that.

I’ll stick to subscription based MMO’s. They’re the only ones where everyone is on equal footing, and you get out of them what you put into them, time and effort wise. Cash shops, and the greed that inspires them, have ruined so many games. It’s ruining the industry as sure as subscription based hacks. It’s sad that a monthly subscription just isn’t enough anymore, that pay-to-win (or at best, pay-for-convenience) is the going model today for most MMOs.

I’m just not interested in dueling credit card style of PvP, or credit card inspired advancement.

I think this system is awesome. It reminds me some what of skill hunting in GW1. I only assume that more and more traits will be released which will allow for more and more custom classes.

I like it a lot. These traits shouldn’t be easy to get, they are elite traits.

I’m trying very hard to look at this new trait system through the eyes of a new player, and every time I do I feel like I’m looking at a barrier to entry. Its as if someone told me the moment I turned 21 i could go to a bar, and then once I’m 21 and waiting in that line the bouncer looks at me and goes, "well you can come in, but you can only buy water and these 2 drinks you don’t like until you are 26 years old, then you can buy one of these 2 other drinks you might like. Your other option is you pay a $300 fee and you can buy any of the drinks you DO want from list A, but you can’t get anything from lists B and kittenil you are 30 and 40 years old respectively. You’ll also have to pay a nominal fee at those ages to get access to those drinks as well.

After that though you can mix and match whatever drinks you like as much as you like.

Well, that’s nice, but I kinda wanted to experiment with those other drinks while i was still young to better refine my tastes as I grow older and certainly not for those prices.

I just finished leveling an alt (created before the patch, thankfully) and it’s made me realize something else that is now nagging me about the new level distribution—it’s not even internally consistent. You get a point or points every six levels (because apparently that’s totally less confusing for new players than getting one every five levels, right?) until level 78. Then you get your 13th and 14th points at level 80. So the new progression is not only less organic and intuitive than the old one was (or a single point in the new system at every level starting from 15 would be) but it doesn’t even resolve itself smoothly.

This is a pretty minor thing, but it just continues to beg question of why fix (to use the term VERY liberally) what was not only not broken, but working excellently before.

radioAspen.6829:

(created before the patch, thankfully) and it’s made me realize something else that is now nagging me about the new level distribution—it’s not even internally consistent. You get a point or points every six levels (because apparently that’s totally less confusing for new players than getting one every five levels, right?) until level 78. Then you get your 13th and 14th points at level 80. So the new progression is not only less organic and intuitive than the old one was (or a single point in the new system at every level starting from 15 would be) but it doesn’t even resolve itself smoothly.

This is a pretty minor thing, but it just continues to beg question of why fix (to use the term VERY liberally) what was not only not broken, but working excellently before.

Both these points.

Plus, this trait-hunting system is analogous to skill-hunting in GW1. However, in GW1, much more thought was put in. Each skill was attached to different boss. Each boss was of the relevant profession. Here, we just have a very generic system.

You want trait VI in trait line 5 as a Guardian? …Do 100% complete in Frostgorge Sound. As a Ranger? The same. As a warrior? The same. Very sloppy and lazy.

IndigoSundown.5419:

In my opinion, it might be better if people stop derailing the thread by attacking Nerelith, so she does not feel the need to further derail by defending herself. If you disagree with her opinions, address the factual basis for them, if there is one. As is the case with many opinions, they’re just opinions.

It’s also my opinion that comparing GW2 to other games can often lead to thread derailment. Perhaps that is why the moderators discourage such comparisons. In the interest of keeping threads on topic, it might be best to refrain from such comparisons.

• Disclaimer: No ill intent toward any poster is intended, and no animals were harmed in the making of this post.

This. Another reason why such comparisons are highly discouraged is because it too easily falls into use for false equivalences, and rather than direct any discussion into a productive direction, it derails it, and misinforms and confuses players. Basically, it’s an invitation to needless chaos as we have seen very clearly in this thread.

PS: I am deeply concerned no moderator has yet to appear here to intervene. That no developer has peaked in to aknowledge some of the concerns brought up here. Or am I being to impatient? Perhaps we should wait a week to see if one of either has come by? Oh wait… it has been a week…. Okay, how about a month? No, I’m not being sarcastic, I am seriously wondering if we have scared them away.

radioAspen.6829:

. I just finished leveling an alt (created before the patch, thankfully) and it’s made me realize something else that is now nagging me about the new level distribution—it’s not even internally consistent. You get a point or points every six levels (because apparently that’s totally less confusing for new players than getting one every five levels, right?) until level 78. Then you get your 13th and 14th points at level 80. So the new progression is not only less organic and intuitive than the old one was (or a single point in the new system at every level starting from 15 would be) but it doesn’t even resolve itself smoothly.

This is a pretty minor thing, but it just continues to beg question of why fix (to use the term VERY liberally) what was not only not broken, but working excellently before.

Agreed also. It doesn’t feel like much thought went into a lot of the things in this patch. There’s quite a few things that people don’t like in this patch and as other people have said, this was mentioned before the patch even hit by concerned players.

The new system is a lot more ‘un-natural’ than the old system, it slows down leveling and gives you a lot less to fiddle with. Getting your GM traits at 60 meant you had the next 20 levels to find a good build so you had a good idea what worked and could then find the right armour/weapons/trinkets for you for lvl 80 or above (the most expensive part of the game).

Lord Kuru.3685:

radioAspen.6829:

I just finished leveling an alt (created before the patch, thankfully) and it’s made me realize something else that is now nagging me about the new level distribution—it’s not even internally consistent. You get a point or points every six levels (because apparently that’s totally less confusing for new players than getting one every five levels, right?) until level 78. Then you get your 13th and 14th points at level 80. So the new progression is not only less organic and intuitive than the old one was (or a single point in the new system at every level starting from 15 would be) but it doesn’t even resolve itself smoothly.

This is a pretty minor thing, but it just continues to beg question of why fix (to use the term VERY liberally) what was not only not broken, but working excellently before.

Both these points.

Plus, this trait-hunting system is analogous to skill-hunting in GW1. However, in GW1, much more thought was put in. Each skill was attached to different boss. Each boss was of the relevant profession. Here, we just have a very generic system.

You want trait VI in trait line 5 as a Guardian? …Do 100% complete in Frostgorge Sound. As a Ranger? The same. As a warrior? The same. Very sloppy and lazy.

I feel sorry for the new players who will find having to do the same 100% map completion of X region for a trait for all of their characters tedious and boring. I only completed Lornar’s Pass once and at the end I swore I will never ever want to do it again… now I have to do it again with my thief. But by the time I’m halfway though completing Lornar’s Pass I would have amassed enough gold and perhaps enough skill points to just buy the trait in question.

Oh, the irony.

Lostyus.4250:

radioAspen.6829:

I just finished leveling an alt (created before the patch, thankfully) and it’s made me realize something else that is now nagging me about the new level distribution—it’s not even internally consistent. You get a point or points every six levels (because apparently that’s totally less confusing for new players than getting one every five levels, right?) until level 78. Then you get your 13th and 14th points at level 80. So the new progression is not only less organic and intuitive than the old one was (or a single point in the new system at every level starting from 15 would be) but it doesn’t even resolve itself smoothly.

This is a pretty minor thing, but it just continues to beg question of why fix (to use the term VERY liberally) what was not only not broken, but working excellently before.

Agreed also. It doesn’t feel like much thought went into a lot of the things in this patch. There’s quite a few things that people don’t like in this patch and as other people have said, this was mentioned before the patch even hit by concerned players.

The new system is a lot more ‘un-natural’ than the old system, it slows down leveling and gives you a lot less to fiddle with. Getting your GM traits at 60 meant you had the next 20 levels to find a good build so you had a good idea what worked and could then find the right armour/weapons/trinkets for you for lvl 80 or above (the most expensive part of the game).

Agreed.

I was one of those players who loved to tweak her build, playing with the traits, especially after unlocking the GM traits of the trait lines of my choosing. Oh, I want to run faster with my necro? Put on some daggers and put on my dagger speed trait on my Healing line. When I’m done with running I put back my life gain trait in that line. Planning to go under water? I retrait as needed. I used to have all the traits at my disposal. What stopped me from exploring and playing with them a little to my leisure. Now I’m with little thief and I want to scream. I just started and I already feel … limited. The freedom I had the privilege to enjoy with my other characters won’t be as available with my thief. Instead of leveling by doing whatever struck my fancy at the moment, now I’m feeling shoehorned into focusing my leveling experience into a gold-productive and efficent one in order to access the Adept traits that are impossible to acquire… Unless a Fairy Devmother came upon me and flicked his or her wand at me to grant my little Adept level range-thief super powers to survive Frostgorge Sound… That is if the game’s code decides to even recognize and award whatever actions my character will do then in that area despite being too low level to be there in the first place.

Now I want a Fairy Devmother. >.>

I read about it in the Megaserver discussion thread. It was concerning some of the issues surrounding megaservers that ANet is planning to aknowledge. It know it did little as it was just one, but even just receiving some sort of response is a bit of comfort. Of course, continuously active communication with the devs would be preferable (the thouht of it puts butterflies in my stomach out of joy). But at least it’s something. I would love to hear a similar response about traits, particularly surrounding the issue of level inappropriate gates for some of the Adept traits.

instead of making new traits, make new utility skills that work with certain traits already there.

Make new weapon with new skill for every class. Open up the build diversity plz.

I won’t be saying anything new here, just that I’m a really sad quaggan about this change :/
I loved leveling alts before this. Always rushing to lvl 11 to spend my first trait point and then one every lvl after that… now I’m just bored not really customizing my char much until lvl 30 and even then I can unlock 1 minor trait (yay) and then grinding 6 lvls ‘till I can get another trait point. It’s just boring. I’m not even that dissapointed about having a lower HP/lower damage/whatever. I’m just dissapointed that everytime I ding lvl up there’s a one in a six chance, that I’m not getting a trait point (and ofc none ’till lvl 30) It just makes most lvl ups pointless, which makes the game boring (at least for me)

A R W E N.6895:

instead of making new traits, make new utility skills that work with certain traits already there.

Make new weapon with new skill for every class. Open up the build diversity plz.

More skills could be nice. Not too long ago they added a 25-skill points worth Healing Skill for every class and that was a really good move. I would like to see some extra low cost skills to raise build diversity. To make such more viable for pre-80 characters, making skill points account wide, or eliminating the skill point cost from traits would be helpful.

A new weapon for every class? Now that would be a larger undertaking but potentially add a bigger impact to build diversity than the addition of skills. It would also imply the addition of new traits to make these new weapons more efficient through traits. So one addition leads to another addition to compensate for the first, thus creating a much bigger impact on build diversity.

Such would also be the best opportunity to revise and improve upon the recently released trait acquisition system. That way new content is released on a sturdier and more polished foundation that allows it to be as optimum as possible.

Ranger Traits are mediocre.

I only found some use for Read the Wind.

Oh wait.
Piercing Arrows & Spotter are so OP.
Bad Luck for Read the Wind.

Rest of the Traits (which means ALL) can go and be reworked.

After reading a bit more where traits can be found, can I please have a refund for that last character slot I bought?

When I first read about the trait unlocks, I was all for. After finding out that some Adept traits were “hidden” in lvl70-80 areas, I was like, hmm. But after finding out that a lot of traits are hidden in WvW and one even in the worst JP of the entire game (gank-fast Sanctum), I just refuse to create a new character anymore. It really ruins the entire leveling for me and that’s the bit I loved most about GW2.

I might use that last character slot as key farmer, or I might keep it unused. All I know, I had plans to buy around 11 slots more (presuming no new races were added), but those plans are now frozen until Anet changes the trait acquirement locations.

About Force of Will, it is not quite clear for me. The description for it says: “You have increased vitality, based on your level.” Then it says below : Vitality: 300. Does this mean that for max level (80) the total vitality gain is 300?

If so, on one hand it would be very handy for some guardians who do not have the most excellent gear around yet. See, this trait provides a consistent sustained vitality bonus regardless of gear. So it is good for those starting out with their 80s.

However, further along the way, had the trait been dependant on a percentage of stats gained from gear like for example, 30% additional vitality of your total vitality, it can surpass the 300 Vit. cap.

So for a beginning lvl 80 guardian, it is a good trait as it currently is, but as a guardian obtains better quality gear it can look up to pick up another trait that effectively bestow a better stat boost.

About Pure of Voice, that trait can still be quite effective. My guardian, which I have built to be very supportive and tanky employs “Save Yourselves” and “Contemplation of Purity” for a nice little combo where I draw in the conditions of my friends unto myself, gain boons, and then gain an another additional set of boons when I convert those conditions into boons. It is very effective in fights where we face Condi-happy opponents. This trait, however, could replace this combo for those who place points in the Honor line. Not a too bad trait for shout-happy guardians that want to give condition-control support. But I do suppose that it can still be improved upon.

I have noticed several people on this thread express disatisfaction with some of the new traits and reworked traits. Specifically, the ones for ranger. But at this point, I think I’ve read one for about every single class (Except mesmer, I don’t recall negative feedback on any new or reworked mesmer traits). I wonder what further improvements ANet will give to these traits based on this feedback.

It just occurred to me – remember that line from the Manifesto about how GW2 wasn’t going to make you spend hours and hours preparing to have fun before you could actually start having fun? The change to trait levels and unlocks is absolutely making new players spend lots of time preparing to have fun rather than actually having fun.

CC Danicia.1394:

Nynuwe.5893:

PS: I am deeply concerned no moderator has yet to appear here to intervene. That no developer has peaked in to aknowledge some of the concerns brought up here.

The thread was doing remarkedly well for a long time, which is why it had little interaction from the Moderation Team. There has been plenty of debating, only a tiny bit of off-topic, which quickly got back on track.

We saw the first reports about this thread this afternoon. Thousands up thousands of posts are made every single day and although we wish we could review them all, it’s just not physically possible, so any assistance we can get from players using the report function is greatly appreciated.

All this said, we have cleaned up the thread. Please keep it on-topic and clean. Thank you!

I thank you very much for the intervention, and I appreciate the work you have done here! <3

Nynuwe.5893:

CC Danicia.1394:

Nynuwe.5893:

PS: I am deeply concerned no moderator has yet to appear here to intervene. That no developer has peaked in to aknowledge some of the concerns brought up here.

The thread was doing remarkedly well for a long time, which is why it had little interaction from the Moderation Team. There has been plenty of debating, only a tiny bit of off-topic, which quickly got back on track.

We saw the first reports about this thread this afternoon. Thousands up thousands of posts are made every single day and although we wish we could review them all, it’s just not physically possible, so any assistance we can get from players using the report function is greatly appreciated.

All this said, we have cleaned up the thread. Please keep it on-topic and clean. Thank you!

I thank you very much for the intervention, and I appreciate the work you have done here! <3

Danicia needs already a new read’o meter for forum threads/topics >:]

I just want to say that this new trait system may have turned my younger brother off from the game. He was just starting to get into it. He has a level 18 ranger. When he logged on yesterday night to play with me, he was surprised to see that he had absolutely no trait points. “Wait, what? Where are my trait points?” he said. After I explained the change to him, he said, “Level 30?!” “Yup.” “Well, great.” He played for maybe 30 minutes tops with me before he jumped onto Warframe again, when usually we play for over an hour.

So, ArenaNet, this was a new player, and the new player was quite discouraged by the new system. I don’t think your experiment is paying off well.

The cost to unlock all traits on one character by purchasing manuals was 3 gold 10 silver.

The cost to unlock all traits on one character by purchasing them directly is 38 gold.

This is an increase of more than twelve times (12.26 to be precise).

This is unconscionable.

I have four 80s, two close to 80, and one 30-something character. I was dismayed to see all of my traits on my mid-level character disappear into ArenNets strange choice to fix something that wasn’t broken.

I’m glad I had 7 of the 8 professions grandfathered in to not unlocking traits (with the exception of the new ones).

I’m not sure I want to finish leveling that 30-something, and I definitely won’t be filling my eighth slot with a new character until this new trait system is massively reworked.