Guild Wars 2

I’m ~3500 hours in the game now, with 8 characters, a free slot and enough gold to get a 10th slot. All my current toons are at lvl 80, and 7 of them have the full amount of skills + traits. My two last characters (and the two more that I plan to build to finish my roster) were leveled entirely through scrolls and tomes obtained from PvP using my main characters (not a single step in PvE or WvW for those tooms, outside farming a rich iron ore each day).

I did leave playing PvE at the beguining of the year (after having done 3 times the full map, achieving one legendary, being done dungeons hundreds and hundreds of times) and did leave the WvW after the end of the Second League, so from May to now I just did the daily achievements and PvP (currently I’m at rank 73, I expect to reach 80 this month), and the new trait system is, indeed, atrocius.

To my luck, I will not need to jump in the new trait system due (to great extent) I already have 6 of the 8 classes with all the skills and traits, and PvP gave me gold, tomes and scrolls to fulfill the other ones. However, that luck doesn’t prevent me to notice how abhorrent is the current trait system: it prevents low level characters to progress and experiment with traits, and forces them to either spent a huge amount of gold and skillpoints or urges them to do things that aren’t funny at all (like demanding to do task in high level maps to get low level traits). Is just absurd. The skill point requirements for the last traits are also insane (so huge that I din’t unlock a single 13th trait for my main -a Guardian- despite He swims in a pool of ~800 skill points due I see no reason to waste 150 of them on that crap). If looks obnoxious for a veteran player with resources to pay the price you can figure what looks like for a beguinner player which just steps on the game…

In 3 weeks my journey will be complete: all classes, legendary, several full map completions, max rank at PvP… Arenanet barely changed the (stagnated) WvW since the release, failed to make a competivive/popular PvP and the PvE part is going from easy and boring towards to easy + grindly + boring.

I don’t known what is happening: the game has arguably one of the best (if not the best) combat system in any MMO, and has potential to be a success as both competitive e-sport and as pupular G vs G arena, but Arenanet just drop the ball, did stop supporting those aspects of the game and focused their efforts into turning the PvE in a korean grindfest. Well, worse for them: for sure I have more alternatives available in the market. My main objective playing games is to achieve fun, and at the current state GW2 barely does that.

1. New players can’t properly learn their class through PVE anymore, because you get traits too slow

2. New players have harder time in PVE because you get less stats, because you get traits slower

3. Veteran players have a harder time leveling a new character in PVE due to reasons from 1. and 2. Unless they spend money of course

sorudo.9054:

…Anet wants to make this game more like GW1 because it’s the sequel, the whole idea of the trait update was to make it closer to GW1…

That doesn’t make sense design wise. If they wanted GW2 to be a sequel to GW1 by having a similar trait system they should have designed it that way from the beginning. Instead they have taken the original GW2 functioning trait system and ruined it.

Susulemon.3204:

1. New players can’t properly learn their class through PVE anymore, because you get traits too slow

This, in fact. I can’t stress this enough. Full signet guardians. Full signet guardians everywhere! Without the experimentation through the leveling process, there are so many people that have no idea how to actually build their characters, and the only thing the leveling process has taught them is to stay away from traits and just get their passives through skill slots.

Lazuli.2098:

sorudo.9054:

…Anet wants to make this game more like GW1 because it’s the sequel, the whole idea of the trait update was to make it closer to GW1…

That doesn’t make sense design wise. If they wanted GW2 to be a sequel to GW1 by having a similar trait system they should have designed it that way from the beginning. Instead they have taken the original GW2 functioning trait system and ruined it.

sigh….you just said what i said earlier, it’s to late to change the trait system……

So, am I the only one surprised that they didn’t do this with skills instead?

IMO they should revert the Trait change and create new elite skills that are unlocked in a similar manner.

For example: There’s a wraith boss with a small army of abominations that you encounter in your personal story. Imagine if defeating it as a necromancer unlocked a “Summon Wraith” Elite skill.

This, in my opinion, is what should’ve been done instead. It gives you something to do while leveling/at max level while also not limiting you from doing something as important as experimenting with builds on a lower level alt.

From what I’m understanding in this thread (I’ve never played GW1 myself so I could be wrong), this is more akin to how it worked in GW1, yes?

Zenchii.6531:

So, am I the only one surprised that they didn’t do this with skills instead?

IMO they should revert the Trait change and create new elite skills that are unlocked in a similar manner.

For example: There’s a wraith boss with a small army of abominations that you encounter in your personal story. Imagine if defeating it as a necromancer unlocked a “Summon Wraith” Elite skill.

This, in my opinion, is what should’ve been done instead. It gives you something to do while leveling/at max level while also not limiting you from doing something as important as experimenting with builds on a lower level alt.

From what I’m understanding in this thread (I’ve never played GW1 myself so I could be wrong), this is more akin to how it worked in GW1, yes?

I mentioned this a few times back in the first few pages of this long kitten thread. People keep saying they did this to be more like gw1 and what I don’t get is why they didn’t use skills then. Traits just does not make sense. Traits are the core of your character and skills just add utility(except of course engineers). Skills already cost skill points so it would have been easier to just add a gold cost on to them and then they just add the unlocks. It seems much easier to code. It just doesn’t make sense to me that they would do this to traits. Which is why I think arenanet/ncsoft is just trolling us and laughing their kitten off that people are still giving them money.

Zenchii.6531:

From what I’m understanding in this thread (I’ve never played GW1 myself so I could be wrong), this is more akin to how it worked in GW1, yes?

You can read how it was in GW1. Hopefully so will the devs!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Capture

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Zenchii.6531:

So, am I the only one surprised that they didn’t do this with skills instead?

IMO they should revert the Trait change and create new elite skills that are unlocked in a similar manner.

For example: There’s a wraith boss with a small army of abominations that you encounter in your personal story. Imagine if defeating it as a necromancer unlocked a “Summon Wraith” Elite skill.

This, in my opinion, is what should’ve been done instead. It gives you something to do while leveling/at max level while also not limiting you from doing something as important as experimenting with builds on a lower level alt.

From what I’m understanding in this thread (I’ve never played GW1 myself so I could be wrong), this is more akin to how it worked in GW1, yes?

I mentioned this a few times back in the first few pages of this long kitten thread. People keep saying they did this to be more like gw1 and what I don’t get is why they didn’t use skills then. Traits just does not make sense. Traits are the core of your character and skills just add utility(except of course engineers). Skills already cost skill points so it would have been easier to just add a gold cost on to them and then they just add the unlocks. It seems much easier to code. It just doesn’t make sense to me that they would do this to traits. Which is why I think arenanet/ncsoft is just trolling us and laughing their kitten off that people are still giving them money.

Doing unlokcs with traits does make sense — if your plan is to base upcoming horizontal progression around adding traits rather than adding more skills.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Doing unlokcs with traits does make sense — if your plan is to base upcoming horizontal progression around adding traits rather than adding more skills.

What would have made more sense, keep it the way it was and lock new traits/skills. This might actually be fun!

Daggos Skelito.2910:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Doing unlokcs with traits does make sense — if your plan is to base upcoming horizontal progression around adding traits rather than adding more skills.

What would have made more sense, keep it the way it was and lock new traits/skills. This might actually be fun!

Yup. See, I think that’s where the failure comes from. They applied this new system to ALL of the traits, new and old alike. If they would’ve just added new skills and traits with this new unlock method and left the old ones alone instead, it would’ve added to the horizontal progression they wanted while giving new players some freebies to try out the trait system with. It would also give seasoned players with 80’s a reason for doing world content again; If they wanna try out a new trait, they gotta earn it by beating the challenge associated with it.

You know, come to think of it, I do like the system, I’d just prefer it be used with new additions rather than with EVERYTHING! By that point, it’s just an annoying mechanic.

My 0.02 would be mixing the new and the old system.

1 – Adept and master traits are unlocked by once the tier is unlocked.
2 – Tomes are needed to unlock trait tiers.
3 – All grandmaster traits are locked and can be unlocked by the current way

IMHO this would not hinder alts and promote some exploration when a character is fairly evolved.

There are alot of posts on how to fix this. To be honest, some are very complex, but all are trying to promote exploration. Heck Scarlett’s Minion attacks promoted the most exploration for me.

Mixing old with new is simple and effective. Leave the old and lock the new! Any more question

ANet, you know the best thing in RPG games? Levelling up and becoming more powerful.

So when we level up in GW2 and only get skill points towards the few decent skills or circus elites. It actually highlights how bad the skills especially elite are!

GW – Guys I just got Spiteful Spirit by killing a boss wooties!

GW2 – I just finished Clor Island and my toon now has a trait in an stat I don’t use and all other slots are empty!

I think what I’m saying is you have to fill the void you’ve created!

c’mon ArenaNet, removes at least the skill point of trait guide

Hi, Engineers have a trait for speed (10sec when they equip a weapon kit). This has a result of perma speed but the user has to click the weapon kit on and of every 10 sec (sorry to say that) like an idiot. Thank God I am not using my Engi a lot.

Since you did that trait I suggest changing it to Perma Speed if a Weapon Kit is Equipped!

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

blakdoxa.7520:

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

lol people are still crying about trait system . my gf was leveling her first char not so long ago and yes new trait system is great , she had motivation to unlock,do,go to places which she would skip for 99% . problem is with all crap chars from eotm but anyway if it is your alt go buy traits from vendor and dont cry . THIS SYSTEM WORKS GREAT FOR FIRST CHAR

Well for someone who is playing after Apr 15th not knowing how the previous was perfectly fine (save the free trait reset), of course.
It’s also funny that you talk about someone else’s experience rather than put out your own.

I play this game since beta . I have 4 char on 80 and in bank I have 5 scrolls(20lvl),300 tomes ( 1 lvl) and really ! I dont cry about traits and it was nice to see my gf lvling and it really works for new comers .

Hmmm ok, so explain how your gf is managing to unlock ADEPT traits meant for lvl 30-40ih, in them 50-60 zones, without getting her kitten handed to her, or the Orr ones that need large groups to unlock on events that have to fail or maybe the ones where you have to kill something in WvWvW that no one wants to kill anymore ?

That is, without fundage from you to pay the ridiculous price in G and of course Skill points she will be needing for her SKILLS while she levels up ?

I call BS !

Can someone please tell me again why they are hurting the beginning of character creation?? Just the thought of making a new alt makes my skin crawl!

I have decided to make an alt finally but.. I will not even bother with traits until I hit 80. I’ve been playing a long time, so have no shortage of gold or skill points, but I won’t waste them. I guess I’ll run around Tyria with my sub-optimal self, until I have 100% map completion. There’s no point in looking at traits until I’ve done that. Fun, fun, fun….. not. In all likelihood I’ll just hit around level 40 and be bored to tears and delete her.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

Can someone please tell me again why they are hurting the beginning of character creation?? Just the thought of making a new alt makes my skin crawl!

Imagine if Skyrim (or any Elder Scrolls game) was changed to where every skill tree required a specific quest to be completed every 25 levels in order to keep progressing it. It -might- make the progression more ‘meaningful’ to a few, but it’s open-endedness and freedom gave it plenty of meaning. It’s sad that leveling in GW2 has lost some of this.

What needed to be done was not stretching out the current progression, it was adding more to it. If this new “progression” was based in entirely new content with entirely new abilities, this would be a very different thread.

Page 37, still nothing from Anet whom merged this thread for feedback…. this feedback seems a little one way……….

Kohlteth.3715:

Page 37, still nothing from Anet whom merged this thread for feedback…. this feedback seems a little one way……….

Out of site….out of mind! Hopefully enough will keep reminding Anet the errors of their ways. Enough has been said about this disaster, geez time to fix it huh!

I dislike the new system and stopped making alts. I have level 20 scrolls from birthday gifts, but I have zero interest in leveling new characters with this system. It’s not my idea of fun, so I have lost all interest in leveling any more.

Recently I have met a few players who simply put a point in each trait line, don’t bother and do not plan to get traits, and rely on signets/utilities.

This is their build, they say. They have little or no interest in following the new master plan of “do this and do that” for traits or spend gold and skill points they cannot afford.

This is the new “build” I am seeing more and more as time goes on. Some people had predicted this, and now it is here. Great, huh?

Agrios.1957:

My 0.02 would be mixing the new and the old system.

1 – Adept and master traits are unlocked by once the tier is unlocked.
2 – Tomes are needed to unlock trait tiers.
3 – All grandmaster traits are locked and can be unlocked by the current way

IMHO this would not hinder alts and promote some exploration when a character is fairly evolved.

I’m ok this.
+1

I just don’t have words to express how unhappy I am that it used to cost less than 5g to unlock all the traits.

Trait points should come every 5 levels, starting at 15.

I was trying to level a mesmer who was grandfathered in with trait unlocks, and I’d forgotten how trait reliant mesmers are. Even with the npc nerfs, it’s a struggle. It’s really disheartening.

As someone who didn’t play until after the new trait system was introduced, I can tell you that I accepted it as it was, but I do feel like the “fun” factor didn’t really pick up until later levels when I had a lot of traits to work with.

The first time I leveled, it wasn’t bad, considering that I got some levels through crafting too. Second time I leveled a character, I was itching in my seat, waiting to get some help from those traits at level 30+.

I can’t say whether the other system was better or worse because I didn’t play it, but that’s my take on it.

Edit: Also, I feel it’s worth noting that because of the cost and the number of different events/etc. needed to unlock all of the traits, I’ve yet to unlock all of my traits on a single character. It just doesn’t feel worth it, unless I want the specific trait.

I was surprised to find myself feeling disappointed at the patch notes today. I seriously didn’t think I still expected Anet to address the trait system. Guess I’m a slow learner.

Labjax.2465:

As someone who didn’t play until after the new trait system was introduced, I can tell you that I accepted it as it was, but I do feel like the “fun” factor didn’t really pick up until later levels when I had a lot of traits to work with.

The first time I leveled, it wasn’t bad, considering that I got some levels through crafting too. Second time I leveled a character, I was itching in my seat, waiting to get some help from those traits at level 30+.

I can’t say whether the other system was better or worse because I didn’t play it, but that’s my take on it.

Edit: Also, I feel it’s worth noting that because of the cost and the number of different events/etc. needed to unlock all of the traits, I’ve yet to unlock all of my traits on a single character. It just doesn’t feel worth it, unless I want the specific trait.

yes, the system is very bottom heavy
its really bad with certain classes for who traits essentially make or break the build.
and yeah, i would imagine anyone paying gold will leave many traits out, people hunting traits probably will leave some for a long time from now.

i think that it would be better for traits to be unlocked at 15, happen every 5 levels, and for the adept traits to be given free, or possibly by for completing various tutorial level quests, think heart of the mists pvp npcs.

the rest need to be tweaked and have multiple unlock options for WvW or PVE (and less annoying unlocks)

Guhracie.3419:

I was surprised to find myself feeling disappointed at the patch notes today. I seriously didn’t think I still expected Anet to address the trait system. Guess I’m a slow learner.

they will no longer add much besides hotfixes and polish in LS patches, dont expect anything big except in other patch types

Put me and my guild down as another batch of players who dislike the new trait system. We were away from the game for a few months after playing heavily from before launch through March of this year. When we decided it was time to start up another project, we were excited right up until we read through how the trait system works now.

I’ll resist the temptation to repeat the reactions of our players. Suffice to say that the new system isn’t popular with the team, and the question of whether to continue playing GW2 at all is currently under discussion. Enough hostility has been expressed that I’m not super optimistic that we’ll be continuing.

Take the data point for what it’s worth.

1. This is not beginner friendly!

2. The game have not become better through this.

3. It’s not fair in comparison to all characters who got the traits for free.

4. I am forced to do dungeons to earn enough money and skill points. So the partys won’t be happy about my traitless characters.

I’ve been playing about a month and a half. I’ve been 80 for a good while, but I still have more than a dozen traits locked. Today I decided to unlock one of them by killing Vexa and her golem in Fireheart Rise.

In addition to the normal unlocking fun such as needing the wiki just to figure out how to get to the trait (it turns you have to use a teleportation portal halfway across the map, but of course there’s no reason to indicate that to the player) and hoping I can solo a level 71 event (this is for a second-tier trait by the way, so a level 60 character can do this easily I’m sure) there was an exciting new twist.

Apparently the new Living Story update ties some scavenger hunt to Vexa’s Lab. Not only does this mean I had to do the jumping puzzles while my camera was filled with Charr butt, but also completing the event causes a minidungeon reset which kicks everyone out. In other words, getting that trait meant causing a bunch of players excited about new content to get thrown out mid-jump so they could experience the joy and wonder of the platforming all over again. There’s also a gatekeeping event where you have to kill a bunch of mobs that come out in waves. Slowly.

Of course, people killed Vexa twice before I got there, so I wasn’t feeling too charitable. In any case, another group started attacking before I did, so I joined and got credit. I Portalled some people through the puzzle before that though, so I’m a good person, right?

The entire trait system is possibly the worst character progression system I’ve ever seen and almost made me quit a couple times, refraining only because of the Guild Wars name, but this was a new low. Did anyone think about the possible conflict between players who need to reach the end for whatever it is they were doing and players who need to unlock traits? Does your Living Story team even know about the trait unlocks? Maybe they thought their legs were being pulled when they were told about it. Nobody would implement a system like this, after all.

@Jagdfygar:
If you’re 80, and whatever task you have to do annoys you, just buy it from the vendor.

I mean I’m not saying I like the current implementation (the idea is good, however!), but why the frustration if you can skip it?

Carighan.6758:

@Jagdfygar:
If you’re 80, and whatever task you have to do annoys you, just buy it from the vendor.

I mean I’m not saying I like the current implementation (the idea is good, however!), but why the frustration if you can skip it?

I can’t. Do you realize that buying all traits costs 43 gold and 360 skill points? There aren’t that many skill points if you level to 80 and do every single skill challenge. While I was in Fireheart Rise, I did another unlock plus all the skill challenges in the zone so I can buy some of the second-tier traits that require personal story completion and third-tier traits. Those alone are obscenely expensive (1.5 or 3 gold plus 10 or 20 skill points each, for crying out loud), but I’m resolved not to do another twenty-ish personal story instances or try to kill the overgrown grub.

I don’t know how long you’ve been playing this game, but maybe I need to recalibrate your understanding of the new player experience. When I hit level 80, I had level 80 exotic armor, some level 80 exotic weapons (no scepter, no torch, level 76 fine spear, rare trident), one ascended amulet and rare trinkets otherwise, 0 gold, 0 skill points, and not all skills unlocked including 2 elites. Buying trait unlocks isn’t one fewer ivory backscratcher for a fresh 80. It’s something I had to think about very carefully, because I can’t afford many. As of today, after completing Fireheart Rise, I think I can just about buy all the third-tier unlocks I want to, and that’s a couple weeks after hitting 80. The costs are exorbitant.

Think they going to make some changes to the trait system in the feature pack

Simmu.9405:

Think they going to make some changes to the trait system in the feature pack

you hope.

We all hope! ..

still worried about the changes they may do s:

“Our second week of September 2014 Feature Pack reveals is focused on improving the Guild Wars 2 experience for new and veteran players alike!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/

Hope this means what I want it to mean. Adjustments need to be made because new characters have it way worse off than the veteran characters do. When it comes to the trait system.

Excursion.9752:

“Our second week of September 2014 Feature Pack reveals is focused on improving the Guild Wars 2 experience for new and veteran players alike!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/

Hope this means what I want it to mean. Adjustments need to be made because new characters have it way worse off than the veteran characters do. When it comes to the trait system.

Fingers. Are. Crossed.

Excursion.9752:

“Our second week of September 2014 Feature Pack reveals is focused on improving the Guild Wars 2 experience for new and veteran players alike!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/

Hope this means what I want it to mean. Adjustments need to be made because new characters have it way worse off than the veteran characters do. When it comes to the trait system.

They are going to mess something up for veterans now so that they can be at the same level as the new players. That way its not worse for any single group. I wish I was joking but this seems to be the mentality arenanet has lately.

Levelled to 56 through map completions.

Total of 4 traits unlocked so far…

The first trait I found under this system was a Master trait — Trapper’s Expertise in the Windy Cave. I can’t use it until the 60s, but I stumbled into it at 30, with maybe 20 minutes work.

The first trait I wanted was an Adpet trait — Vigorous Spirits, requiring Harathi Hinterlands zone completion. I can use it mid 30s, but it requires hours of work in an up-to-level 45 zone.

Spot a problem here?

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Excursion.9752:

“Our second week of September 2014 Feature Pack reveals is focused on improving the Guild Wars 2 experience for new and veteran players alike!”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/

Hope this means what I want it to mean. Adjustments need to be made because new characters have it way worse off than the veteran characters do. When it comes to the trait system.

They are going to mess something up for veterans now so that they can be at the same level as the new players. That way its not worse for any single group. I wish I was joking but this seems to be the mentality arenanet has lately.

This is exactly what I fear. I have a horrible idea of what they will do, which makes me sick to think about.

I have enjoyed the game for a long time but if this goes how I fear, I will be done, sadly. With this new system I simply stopped making alts as the new system is “anti-fun” for me.

If this change they speak of is what I suspect, it will take any fun I have away.

There is a positive side to all this, I have ALOT more gold now! In it’s current state, making alts are a pain so I’m saving alot by not outfitting them and purchasing gems for other stuff.

Soooo….. we can rule out gold sink for this terrible change

Woo, finally finished Lornar’s Pass for my friend’s trait. …Finally.
For one trait.
One.
In the meantime, we ran into 3 boss events that gave traits just for beating a lolroll champ. So, three happy coincidences when we really just wanted the one trait.
“Working as intended.”

I’m really hoping they revolutionize how they approach their trait unlocks with this patch. I’m not asking for it to be removed, but the tasks need to be equivalent in level range and time investment.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

There is a positive side to all this, I have ALOT more gold now! In it’s current state, making alts are a pain so I’m saving alot by not outfitting them and purchasing gems for other stuff.

Soooo….. we can rule out gold sink for this terrible change

Yep, lots of gold and nothing to spend it on.

This deserves a sticky, just saying

Does anyone else find it ironic that to unlock the Trait that halves falling damage, you have to do Obsidian Sanctum , the JP where it seems easier to fall than any other (especially where it goes pitch black) ?

Kohlteth.3715:

Does anyone else find it ironic that to unlock the Trait that halves falling damage, you have to do Obsidian Sanctum , the JP where it seems easier to fall than any other (especially where it goes pitch black) ?

I never noticed that. That’s really funny…and pretty bad. lol

Thought about buying a second digital deluxe account since GW2 is on sale. Then thought about new trait system. Then decided not to buy.

From a wvw player only this new system is the worst thing ever for alts.
Never looked at that since i started a new toon becouse of boring things in wvw, but i think i’ll give up soon.

I already got a job dear devs, i don’t want another one for trait unlock.
And to be honest this is not the best thing to tempt someone to play pve. Never liked before i hate it now.