Please, if you are a new player, or even a vet player just leveling a new toon using the current trait system, PLEASE leave a comment here. Let the developers know how this system affects you.
I’ve been posting my thoughts as I’ve run a new character through this.
It hasn’t been pleasant. I ended up having to buy a trait because of the “make friends with ogres in WvW” crap. It’s not fun.
Otherwise, I’ve been doing everything on a plan:
100% this zone, even though I’m 9 levels lower.
Finish unfulfilling Personal Story step that’s 3 chapters ahead.
Wiki this jumping puzzle.
Accidentally stumble on this out-of-the-way event thread that ends in a champ.
It hasn’t been fun, and it doesn’t engage me. It hinders me. I can’t even re-recommend my friend back to the game, because the trait system is so bad. He was in a prime position to become an active player for a while and I turned him away. I had to un-recommend another friend who might have enjoyed it with me, again because the trait system is terrible and unwieldy.
Don’t hold us hostage by keeping traits behind jumping puzzles and WvW. We’ll do them when we’re interested. Heck, put duplicate trait challenges in WvW, and you’ll actually make the WvW crowd smile a little, instead of giving them the finger by making them drag their hind ends through PvE stuff they don’t want.
I am a vet player currrently leveling a new ele because I wanted a different race. I have learned to live with the NPE. It’s the current trait system that I find limiting. Now that my new character has an elite skill and utilities I guess all further skill points will be spent to get traits he might use later. I have a fully-skilled-and-traited level 80 ele who can help with buying the more expensive trait books, but she really shouldn’t have to just so that my new character can eventually have half of the flexibility she has now.
I would prefer that the “original” set of traits be reset to the way traits were to begin with — available at a certain level for a nominal gold fee. If “new” GM traits and any others that are added later need to be acquired differently then so be it, but there should be a minimal pool of available traits to start with for any build diversity to be possible.
Leveling characters is really a lot less fun now than it used to be because of how traits are handled.
I rarely ever post, really just read every once in a while. Been playing since day 1 and for the most part still enjoy the game every now and then. I recently decided to get some character slot expans since they were one sale and wanted to try out leveing a new character/class.
Man, this new trait system is garbage. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the old system. this doesn’t make me feel engaged in the game or encourage me to “explore” (i’ve already done that on all of my other characters) It feels like a boring chore list. Honestly I feel like i would just rather grind out skill points/champ farms to get the scrolls so I can actually get the traits. Really confused as to why they thought this was a good idea in the first place.
Still hoping for a change.
Still hoping for a change.
I admire your optimism, regardless how blind it is…
Ppl are leaving due to this, that’s a fact. If there were something Anet want to do about this issue, they would already told that, because they know.
This silence proves only one thing, there’s nothing to announce about this issue, or the reaction would make more ppl leave, obviously.
So wasn’t really sure what people were talking about with regards to the changes made to the trait system (given most of my existing low level toons weren’t affected) until my friend who just got the game told me he only had one trait atm! So you gotta unlock each trait by doing events (I thought initially this only applied to the new traits in the grandmaster). I understand they had to create some sort of gold sink hole but it isnt really fair to the new players as they will now have to grind various events to unlock certain traits so they are at least useful in the dungeon runs and other pve events (i.e. trippler trouble) this makes the game harder for new players. I think we should keep the traits unlocking by events to grandmaster tier and only the new ones added. Or at least make the gold sink hole less cause really total cost to unlock all the trait. It costs 51g60s and 432 skill points to unlock all the traits who came up with that idea. I feel sorry for my friends that have to start the game now cause they wont be able to have the freedom to test different builds that suite their playing style and will now have to grind events to unlock traits in each tier. FYI I really liked the idea that I had to do high level events for the new traits but i dont feel like new players should grind for each of the lower tiers and the master tiers.
And at least choose fun events to unlock traits like teq or tripple trouble. I enjoy doing the events at the temples in orr thats y I liked how u unlock the higher master tier traits. So fun events not map completions <== made me lol.
It’s been seven and a half months. You should tell your friend to start saving up some gold and skillpoints, because it’s not going to change. (The actual cost is 43g and 360 skillpoints, which is still outrageous.) I’m personally recommending my friends stay away from the game in its current state. You should also know that if you create a new character, you’ll have to unlock all the traits, too.
I made a Charr warrior (before the awful April feature pack) so I could play through the Charr personal story. I don’t really like playing charr, so was planning on making a new warrior by buying another character slot.
However, this is not going to happen now because the new character would have no traits.
I’m still patiently waiting for improvements.
Here is why I believe Anet should take this issue more seriously. When I started the game I had 10 friends that I knew in real life playing with me. As they reached the end game they gave up on the game and moved onto other games while I stuck with it. And the reason why I stuck with the game was the freedom to play the game the way you wanted instead of having to focus on grinding stuff to get skills ect. When they introduced the reset traits option I was rejoicing because now I could do dungeons and switch my build on the fly to suite the situation I was in. That was like yay freedom to change builds as long as im out of combat! Now with the new living story updates some of my friends have returned to the game and they are starting to make toons for their accounts for the first time and I am happy they are returning but I have a gut feeling that this grind for traits will deter them from playing the game especially since they already have some dislike for the game. I am already annoyed since my friends cant test the different builds when they reach the appropriate levels right away when I am doing dungeons with them. Its such a mission now to convince them to stay in the game. Oh well thats my other two cent on this issue really hope devs take a look at this tread again and release a new patch to fix this issue soon cause I would never recommend this game to new players as this new system cripples only them. People who stuck with the game already have enough gold n skillpoints to sink into this but wont cause we have toons at max level already so.
I consider myself a veteran player, 6 level 80s, 10k ap, 3 over 1 year old, and as much as I love blaming anerf for everything that goes wrong in game, I felt it necessary to try a modified dev challenge,
“Dev Trait Challenge
They can’t buy the traits
They must unlock all of the traits per character
They must use all five character slots and finish out each one on a different profession
They must do it on a non-dev account
They cannot ask their co-workers to fix bugged events, they have to do the bug report system, just like the rest of us.
They have to remain ‘unknown’ so they get just as much help as an average player for group events/dungeons. This INCLUDES not being in a guild to start, and not letting anyone know who they are, so they deal with the same stuff we all do.
They have to play exclusively to unlock traits, and get all of the traits unlocked.”
or at least as much of it as applies to me, so I made a new character, powerleveled them to 80, thank you tomes of knowledge, end game geared them, and worked on unlocking every trait. I did this on one profession, already at level 80, but I did not ask for help from my guild at all and I did absolutely nothing on this character except get the traits. It took me 33 hours and 21 min to unlock all skills except: map completion, personal story, obsidian sanctum, overgrown grub, Scholar Fryxx, and branded devourer queen. Reasoning I didn’t do these: its my sixth kitten character, I’m not doing map completion or personal story, I’ll quit the game first. Devourer queen is bugged and even though I submitted a bug report I have little faith that any action will be taken, because I’ve submitted reports before and gotten no action on broken events. I did Obsidian once before, it was particularly unpleasant that time, I know its hard I know it would take a lot of time especially without a mes or two to help, what makes this one funny though is that its trait is fall damage and its one of the hardest JP in the game. Scholar Fryxx is so hard since they blocked the short cut, if you’re going to make it needed for trait unlock can we have the short cut option back? Pretty please? and lastly and definitely least, Overgrown Grub: hahahahaha you expected new players to be able to do this? ohh man whoever came up with this idea is a sadist. Need it be said, I soloed both the other WvW events, and died countless times in ETOM trying to get those. Definitely the best way to introduce new players to WvW and ETOM.
So, since Gaile asked for what we would want to see changed first: get rid of all WvW/ETOM trait unlocks, MC and personal story is fine for new players but vets need something else, and Scholar Fryxx should all be changed with the utmost speed. Kol Skullsmasher, Aquabase commander, fire shaman should all be changed at some point as well, a key reason I was able to finish these was because I tagged up and told the map to come if they wanted a trait unlock. Finally, fix Branded Devourer Queen, Foulbear Kral, and Dredge Commissar, having a broken event listed as something you need to do to unlock a key part of the game? Thats just mean to both vets and new players alike. I was lucky enough to catch a map that Foulbear and Commissar were working on when I went to unlock them, but I have gone to them countless times and found them broken, yes I submitted bug reports. Also, should it really take over 33 hours to get trait unlocks? Disregard time spent leveling, this seems insane to me.
My opinion is that unlocking traits seems like a fun idea. Like unlocking Elite skills in GW1.
But I don’t like the oddly specific ways you have to do it. I really don’t want to take EVERY character I make all over the game. I have specific characters for doing PvE. I think it should be more generic like instead of “complete specific jumping puzzle” or “complete specific dungeon” it can be “complete any jumping puzzle” and “complete any dungeon”.
There are lots of generic achievements that can be done in multiple areas of the game. You could say complete a certain type of event or defeat any dragon.
For lower level traits it could be something like use x combo field to damage an enemy or dodge a knockback skill.
Mid-level traits could be something like defeat a champion or take over 85% fall damage without dying.
Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.
Hello Isaiah,
I thought I’d fish back to retrieve this post as it still remains quite relevant to this thread. Before your reply, there were 4 months of feedback and data (as requested) that the community spent quite a lot of time compiling. Since your post, there have been 3 more months of feedback from the community, again as you requested.
There has been acknowledgement from you and Chris that the Trait re-vamp needs adjusting, and our feedback was needed as part of the process towards improvement from its current build. In 7 months, the community has helped with the process as best we could. We have done our part.
Understanding your communication policy of not divulging specifics of your development goals, it is not an unreasonable request to have an update on whether the re-working is still a go, or if the idea has been scrapped altogether. I am not asking for deadlines, or details of change. I am merely asking for a basic degree of common courtesy to be returned to the community that has compiled 7 months of requested feedback.
I hope this message reaches your desk. Thank you for your attention.
Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.
Hello Isaiah,
I thought I’d fish back to retrieve this post as it still remains quite relevant to this thread. Before your reply, there were 4 months of feedback and data (as requested) that the community spent quite a lot of time compiling. Since your post, there have been 3 more months of feedback from the community, again as you requested.
There has been acknowledgement from you and Chris that the Trait re-vamp needs adjusting, and our feedback was needed as part of the process towards improvement from its current build. In 7 months, the community has helped with the process as best we could. We have done our part.
Understanding your communication policy of not divulging specifics of your development goals, it is not an unreasonable request to have an update on whether the re-working is still a go, or if the idea has been scrapped altogether. I am not asking for deadlines, or details of change. I am merely asking for a basic degree of common courtesy to be returned to the community that has compiled 7 months of requested feedback.
I hope this message reaches your desk. Thank you for your attention.
I really respect your tone, because for me, another red post full of platitudes is not going to cut it. I don’t care if O’brien himself comes in here with a song and dance about the importance of our feedback, because I will believe it when it is live and in-game, and not a moment sooner.
Yeah, at this point I think I will only maybe try to get dailies done when I can and will be spending more time in GW1.
Seriously, I was having MORE fun running around with a lowbie there and gaining those skills, etc than trying to jump through these hoops for traits. I’ll keep popping my head in here to see if anything changes, but I doubt it.
Thanks everyone for giving us some feedback on this system we’ll meet internally and discuss this system some more as I think there are a lot of valid points being brought up here.
Hello Isaiah,
I thought I’d fish back to retrieve this post as it still remains quite relevant to this thread. Before your reply, there were 4 months of feedback and data (as requested) that the community spent quite a lot of time compiling. Since your post, there have been 3 more months of feedback from the community, again as you requested.
There has been acknowledgement from you and Chris that the Trait re-vamp needs adjusting, and our feedback was needed as part of the process towards improvement from its current build. In 7 months, the community has helped with the process as best we could. We have done our part.
Understanding your communication policy of not divulging specifics of your development goals, it is not an unreasonable request to have an update on whether the re-working is still a go, or if the idea has been scrapped altogether. I am not asking for deadlines, or details of change. I am merely asking for a basic degree of common courtesy to be returned to the community that has compiled 7 months of requested feedback.
I hope this message reaches your desk. Thank you for your attention.
I really respect your tone, because for me, another red post full of platitudes is not going to cut it. I don’t care if O’brien himself comes in here with a song and dance about the importance of our feedback, because I will believe it when it is live and in-game, and not a moment sooner.
I figured I’d make an attempt to reach the source one last time. You can attract more bees with honey than vinegar, even though there is enough honey in this entire thread to give the world diabetes.
I’ve made a happy home elsewhere. Unless this gets meaningful updates, there isn’t any reason to come back here, or to ANET. Disappointed, but we tried.
“There isn’t any reason to come back here”
Pretty true in terms of a meaningful response from Anet. Would love to be proven wrong, but nearly 8 months down the line, I’m sure we can be forgiven for being disillusioned. That said, I think it is important for some of us to come back, and keep this thread near the top. Not necessarily for an update from Anet, which at this point would be optimistic to the point of foolishness, but this thread, its thus far 64 pages is symbolic of so much in this game. On the positive, it shows the passionate and, for much of it, articulate nature of the community. Most of us who have criticised this feature, I would say do love this game. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t have been here for so long fighting against a change that we see as severely damaging. it also is a nice timeline of how Anet reacted. At the start, welcoming feedback, to months upon months of complete silence, to platitudes and reassurances, with no susbtantive prrof that our feedback is actually having an effect. Its a testament to the failure of Anet’s closed-door policy, and the deep flaws in their communication in dealing with one of the communities biggest and most persistent issues. It is interesting to note that all of the big controversial issues can be boiled down to either the way they were communicated, or that we as a community weren’t included in the final stages of the process, to discuss things properly with a healthy timescale before release.
Precursor crafting was a failure of the policy, in hat something was announced and then there was no follow up. There is nothing wrong with delaying a planned feature, or once work has been put into it realise it isn’t right for the game. A certain competitor, which I shall nickname “Snowstorm” for this post, has done thatmany times. Announce a feature, work it, realise its not going to do the job and decide to cease development, or drastically change the concept. But it isn’t a huge, persistent deal or a major bone of contention because there was an openness. We get that as players, all with different ideas and feelings, we can’t all get our own way all the time. But it is nice to be included and valued in that process. That policy by nature shows an inherent disrespect towards us as players and our feedback to the game.
In terms of communication, and particularly heads up, look at the recent dungstorm that was the gem exchange changes. If we had news of that say a month before, with a view to changing it if initial impressions warrant it, there wouldn’t have been such a storm, and the gaming sites (which Anet seem to care more about than us players, given they had the news of a change a clear hour before the people who actually had the grievance and made the complaint did – we found out they were relenting not from Anet, but by a third party) wouldn’t have been involved.
Openness and true communication, whether that means we get what we want or not, is the foundation of a great community-developer relationship, and often leads to great things on the development side, much loved and revered.
And that is why this thread is important, beyond the issue of traits. It shows that, even when we are angry, we have valuable feedback to offer, and even 7 months down the line, we have ideas not only to fix, but also help the devs understand where we are coming from, with the Dev Trait Challenge. If Anet took time as a company to understand that we are their bread and butter, and deserve more than this, their time would be so much easier.
I also hope this thread serves as a constant niggling reminder, and a bit of an embarrassment to Anet.
By and large Anet are doing a bit better of a job with communication elsewhere, with Greatest Fear, and a general much higher presence. And I get that this is a particular thorn in their side for a while. The problem is, this thorn has been stuck there for nearly 8 months, and its long since gone septic. If they were more decisive or more open sooner, it wouldn’t be as bigger problem, as it stands now they need to go the extra mile to make things right, and due to the length of time the injury has been around, it is uncertain if it will ever fully heal. I implore Anet to treat this particular wound soon.
I guess this topic didn’t get enough coverage from the gaming media like the gems conversion ui change, and its most likely due to the fact not many people tried out the new player experience, I only recently deleted one of my characters just recently to try see if it was really true that you only get one trait and were forced to unlock each trait by doing crazy amount of tasks turns out its true.. on a side note didnt like how you had to level to unlock weapon skills but to me it was nothing a level 20 scroll couldnt fix but really miss the old way of unlocking weapon skills.
I guess this topic didn’t get enough coverage from the gaming media like the gems conversion ui change, and its most likely due to the fact not many people tried out the new player experience, I only recently deleted one of my characters just recently to try see if it was really true that you only get one trait and were forced to unlock each trait by doing crazy amount of tasks turns out its true.. on a side note didnt like how you had to level to unlock weapon skills but to me it was nothing a level 20 scroll couldnt fix but really miss the old way of unlocking weapon skills.
The trait changes have got nothing to do with the new player experience.
See, you noticed it 6-7 months afterwards yourself and that’s maybe what the problem is – people didn’t realize the changes – so no outcry, no nothing until it was “too late”.
Edit: The traits were changed in april, no one was talking about making the life easier for new players back then. The NPE has been introduced in september.
I guess this topic didn’t get enough coverage from the gaming media like the gems conversion ui change, and its most likely due to the fact not many people tried out the new player experience, I only recently deleted one of my characters just recently to try see if it was really true that you only get one trait and were forced to unlock each trait by doing crazy amount of tasks turns out its true.. on a side note didnt like how you had to level to unlock weapon skills but to me it was nothing a level 20 scroll couldnt fix but really miss the old way of unlocking weapon skills.
The trait changes have got nothing to do with the new player experience.
See, you noticed it 6-7 months afterwards yourself and that’s maybe what the problem is – people didn’t realize the changes – so no outcry, no nothing until it was “too late”.Edit: The traits were changed in april, no one was talking about making the life easier for new players back then. The NPE has been introduced in september.
Yeah just looked it up and noticed there was a post about it in March. Something I didn’t pay too much attention to and yes thats the point it didn’t affect me mainly cause my toons were already made before the patch. Sad times for the newbies who have to grind the traits. Yeah looks like it is too late… but lets just hope Anet actually takes the time to review this now. Oh well again its going to make it hard for my friends to get back into the game one more thing that will make them not want to get back into the game. Oh and I think it was the fact that I could restat my traits that made me overlook the whole new players have to do content to unlock traits.
(edited by BlkPrince.2854)
snip
Yeah, my friends left too again, after creating new alts.
But sometimes I wonder if it’s me and the trait changes aren’t so bad as I think they are – maybe because all there is is this thread. But although I have all but 3 traits unlocked on one of my characters I just can’t bring myself to do it for another character for which I wanted a new build – she has to stick to her old build – I just can’t.
snip
Yeah, my friends left too again, after creating new alts.
But sometimes I wonder if it’s me and the trait changes aren’t so bad as I think they are – maybe because all there is is this thread. But although I have all but 3 traits unlocked on one of my characters I just can’t bring myself to do it for another character for which I wanted a new build – she has to stick to her old build – I just can’t.
And that’s the ‘rub’ here. It’s okay-ish for the first character (except for the bugged events or a few that are highly difficult without a group). It’s that 2nd or 3rd character that will not get traits or only get those for a specific build. It becomes a repetitive slog to unlock them all.
The amount of time that has elapsed since they ‘mentioned’ doing something for our alts, is growing as well. At some point, it will almost be too late to make changes without leaving a large part of the player base feeling cheated out of gold and skill points. The longer they wait the larger the number of players they alienate with changes even if it is for the better of the game.
Veteran here and after leveling two new alts to lvl 80 I think the idea of unlocking traits via events is just fine. Hop around the world and get the “must have” traits and it was even cool seeing parts of Tyria I haven’t been to in a while.
If you feel lazy or whatever just pay up. The only real complaint I see is that some of the required events are pretty difficult like the champ grub in WvW. So maybe some tweaking is in order. In GW1 we had to hunt down champs to learn their elite. Fun stuff.
The real problem with traits is that they have little to no use until level 80. I honestly don’t pay them much attention until then.
Veteran here and after leveling two new alts to lvl 80 I think the idea of unlocking traits via events is just fine. Hop around the world and get the “must have” traits and it was even cool seeing parts of Tyria I haven’t been to in a while.
If you feel lazy or whatever just pay up. The only real complaint I see is that some of the required events are pretty difficult like the champ grub in WvW. So maybe some tweaking is in order. In GW1 we had to hunt down champs to learn their elite. Fun stuff.
The real problem with traits is that they have little to no use until level 80. I honestly don’t pay them much attention until then.
I’m a wvw player, I don’t like PvE that much that all I do is running around exploring. Just pay up is easier said than done as it’s pretty costly – gearing new characters is anyway.
Veteran here and after leveling two new alts to lvl 80 I think the idea of unlocking traits via events is just fine. Hop around the world and get the “must have” traits and it was even cool seeing parts of Tyria I haven’t been to in a while.
If you feel lazy or whatever just pay up. The only real complaint I see is that some of the required events are pretty difficult like the champ grub in WvW. So maybe some tweaking is in order. In GW1 we had to hunt down champs to learn their elite. Fun stuff.
The real problem with traits is that they have little to no use until level 80. I honestly don’t pay them much attention until then.
I’m a wvw player, I don’t like PvE that much that all I do is running around exploring. Just pay up is easier said than done as it’s pretty costly – gearing new characters is anyway.
As a veteran player, its the skill points that hit me. Since finishing my post April Guardian, which wiped out most of my Scrolls of Knowledge despite having done about 40 traits via world unlocks, I have managed to crawl up to about 320 Scrolls of Knowledge.
I am not doing it again, especially with no instance owner now. Now I can’t start a dungeon as an on level player, even with saying outright that I am [x] level, need a group to get a trait unlock. They would just kick me.
I have given in and rolled a Mesmer because my wife and I would like to dual mesmer through things like the Aetherblade JP. I did OS already for my falling damage reduction, which is necessary, and I enjoy JPs. However, when I select one build, I will probably buy just enough for that build. I kind of hope I don’t like Mesmer much so I don’t want to play it enough to need traits.
I couldn’t imagine making enough gold for this on my first toon and, even as a veteran (who does not like farming champ bags), the skill point cost is massively over the top.
(edited by Gregori.5807)
Veteran here and after leveling two new alts to lvl 80 I think the idea of unlocking traits via events is just fine. Hop around the world and get the “must have” traits and it was even cool seeing parts of Tyria I haven’t been to in a while.
If you feel lazy or whatever just pay up. The only real complaint I see is that some of the required events are pretty difficult like the champ grub in WvW. So maybe some tweaking is in order. In GW1 we had to hunt down champs to learn their elite. Fun stuff.
The real problem with traits is that they have little to no use until level 80. I honestly don’t pay them much attention until then.
Personally I’d have no problem with a hunt for grandmaster traits, but I really feel that having to hunt ALL traits is pointless for every character. It simply limits build testing, especially for new players. They don’t have the gold/skills points to buy the traits, they have to go to a 3rd party site to find out how to get the traits, or they have to try to do things far above their level. It’s bad design. Traits SHOULD matter before level 80.
Best thing that hypothetically speaking could happen……drums……is that Scott Bakula takes Quantum Leap back to April 2014 and prevents infamous Trait Update.
I bet people who are justifying this update wouldn’t mind the old system either. It would be pretty much win/win scenario for players. Devs might think otherwise from their POV but isn’t games meant to be for players. At least hundreds of marketing PR persons keep telling that.
Veteran here and after leveling two new alts to lvl 80 I think the idea of unlocking traits via events is just fine. Hop around the world and get the “must have” traits and it was even cool seeing parts of Tyria I haven’t been to in a while.
If you feel lazy or whatever just pay up. The only real complaint I see is that some of the required events are pretty difficult like the champ grub in WvW. So maybe some tweaking is in order. In GW1 we had to hunt down champs to learn their elite. Fun stuff.
The real problem with traits is that they have little to no use until level 80. I honestly don’t pay them much attention until then.
Personally I’d have no problem with a hunt for grandmaster traits, but I really feel that having to hunt ALL traits is pointless for every character. It simply limits build testing, especially for new players. They don’t have the gold/skills points to buy the traits, they have to go to a 3rd party site to find out how to get the traits, or they have to try to do things far above their level. It’s bad design. Traits SHOULD matter before level 80.
I wouldn’t mind a compromise and that sounds reasonable. That would still fulfill the “spirit” of elite skill hunting from GW1. But for build testing the best place to do that is sPvP. I understand that will still alienate the non-pvpers though.
But for build testing the best place to do that is sPvP. I understand that will still alienate the non-pvpers though.
PvP also has got completely different mechanics, the damage is calculated differently, one has got only the amulet as a trinket, no gear and one fights other players. Fighting npcs is actually different. And there’s more to a build than just traits, so people who have tested their traits in pvp might still be bummed when they want to try it in pve. And well it’s kind of mean to send new players straight to pvp as that’s somewhat harder than pve.
I’m serious though: I’d love to know how many new players have unlocked how many traits and how they chose their builds. I’d also love to know how many veterans who play either “high level” pve or wvw stick to their old characters because of the trait changes.
Normally I’d be saving up for the sales in GW2 right now, but the last of my November entertainment money went to Steam. Feel free to drop me a message if you want my Steam name to add me there and keep in touch.
I’m a wvw player, I don’t like PvE that much that all I do is running around exploring. Just pay up is easier said than done as it’s pretty costly – gearing new characters is anyway.
I think this is an example of the main issue which is that trait unlock requirements are more oddly specific than diversely generic.
People say you are lazy if you don’t do the trait requirements but the reality is you can be a super active player and never unlock traits if the unlock requirements just aren’t what you ever do.
I’m also a primarily WvW player and most of my alts I’ve created for the sake of diversifying my roles in WvW. If I have to pay to unlock traits it’s basically like I’m being fined for not playing PvE on every character.
The game is supposed to be play the way you want to play. I don’t want to play PvE on most of my characters. I have only a few specific characters who exist for PvE.
I like the idea of unlocking traits BUT the unlock requirements need to be more broad or generic so people can unlock them without playing parts of the game they don’t want to play.
IDEA: Traits are made to enhance your skillset. Why not unlock traits similar to the way you used to unlock weapon skills? The more you do a certain type of thing, the closer you get to unlocking a trait.
Example: Necro: Unlock “Training of the Master” trait (which boosts minion damage) after slaying 150 foes with summoned minions.
(edited by Mo Mo.1947)
I’m a wvw player, I don’t like PvE that much that all I do is running around exploring. Just pay up is easier said than done as it’s pretty costly – gearing new characters is anyway.
I think this is an example of the main issue which is that trait unlock requirements are more oddly specific than diversely generic.
People say you are lazy if you don’t do the trait requirements but the reality is you can be a super active player and never unlock traits if the unlock requirements just aren’t what you ever do.
I’m also a primarily WvW player and most of my alts I’ve created for the sake of diversifying my roles in WvW. If I have to pay to unlock traits it’s basically like I’m being fined for not playing PvE on every character.
The game is supposed to be play the way you want to play. I don’t want to play PvE on most of my characters. I have only a few specific characters who exist for PvE.
I like the idea of unlocking traits BUT the unlock requirements need to be more broad or generic so people can unlock them without playing parts of the game they don’t want to play.
IDEA: Traits are made to enhance your skillset. Why not unlock traits similar to the way you used to unlock weapon skills? The more you do a certain type of thing, the closer you get to unlocking a trait.
Example: Necro: Unlock “Training of the Master” trait (which boosts minion damage) after slaying 150 foes with summoned minions.
This would be fine if our feedback really mattered. As the trait system nears the one-year mark, however, I am less and less convinced that they’re interested in any of our ideas here. I am actually telling my friends/family that I do not want any gem cards for the holidays this year.
IDEA: Traits are made to enhance your skillset. Why not unlock traits similar to the way you used to unlock weapon skills? The more you do a certain type of thing, the closer you get to unlocking a trait.
Example: Necro: Unlock “Training of the Master” trait (which boosts minion damage) after slaying 150 foes with summoned minions.
I really like this idea. This makes unlocking traits way more organic.
This would be fine if our feedback really mattered. As the trait system nears the one-year mark, however, I am less and less convinced that they’re interested in any of our ideas here. I am actually telling my friends/family that I do not want any gem cards for the holidays this year.
You’ve already stated you’ve given up on this game. Why not give up on the forum? ANet can’t appease everyone’s particular desires. Your opinion doesn’t always line up with others when it comes to what people want and what you want changed.
Becoming unshakably disgruntled at the game and trying to rally everyone to Team Hate-ANet and suggesting everyone quit and join you on steam is not a productive way to get what you want.
Here’s a link about giving CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and criticism:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback/first#post3383470
Mark Katzbach explains exactly how to be heard on the forums. If you want to be heard by ANet, follow his instructions.
This would be fine if our feedback really mattered. As the trait system nears the one-year mark, however, I am less and less convinced that they’re interested in any of our ideas here. I am actually telling my friends/family that I do not want any gem cards for the holidays this year.
You’ve already stated you’ve given up on this game. Why not give up on the forum? ANet can’t appease everyone’s particular desires. Your opinion doesn’t always line up with others when it comes to what people want and what you want changed.
Becoming unshakably disgruntled at the game and trying to rally everyone to Team Hate-ANet and suggesting everyone quit and join you on steam is not a productive way to get what you want.
Here’s a link about giving CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and criticism:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback/first#post3383470
Mark Katzbach explains exactly how to be heard on the forums. If you want to be heard by ANet, follow his instructions.
Are you kidding me? Unless you’ve read my posting history, you have no grounds on which to condescend to tell me to read what Mark Katzbach thinks will get me heard on the forum. And if you’ve read my posting history and can still think to condescend to me, you’ve got more issues than I can begin to comment upon. I’ve been exceedingly constructive. And I wasn’t going to point out that your idea has already been mentioned at least twice in this thread, but now I’m going to do just that. You know why you didn’t know that? Because it’s nearly 70 pages long, and who has time to read all that?
If you think my post violates forum rules, there’s a handy “report” button in the bottom right corner. Use the kitten out of it. Let the moderators do their jobs, but do not scold me. That is not your job. Feel free to apply for a position with ANET if you’d like for it to be, though.
I sure as kitten am disgruntled. I bought a game that I loved playing, and then ANET demolished the part of the game I loved the most… and then tried to sell it back to me at about 500% of just the coin cost. We’re closing in on a year now with the only comments in this thread being mild platitudes about how our feedback is really valued, and we should keep on giving our feedback.
And I’m not telling anyone to quit GW, I’m offering my steam nickname to anyone who is interested in keeping in touch. Steam is a sort of social media for gaming. I’m discouraging my friends from picking up the game and/or returning to it, but that’s different from trying to convince the forum to jump ship. Don’t lie about what I’ve said; it’s all there for folks to see. Just don’t.
Are you KIDDING me right now?
(edited by Guhracie.3419)
I don’t recall saying you were doing something worth reporting. And no I didn’t read 70 pages and don’t expect anyone to. And no I haven’t read your entire GW2 forum life story. But I did read a few of your post that you’ve been posting recently.
I’m personally recommending my friends stay away from the game in its current state. You should also know that if you create a new character, you’ll have to unlock all the traits, too.
Normally I’d be saving up for the sales in GW2 right now, but the last of my November entertainment money went to Steam. Feel free to drop me a message if you want my Steam name to add me there and keep in touch.
You’re talking about telling people to not play the game and that you’re moving your money to another game and people should hang out with you there instead of in-game.
And you’re doing it in the same entitled voice that I’m seeing all over the forums from people who complain unconstructively, cry foul-play and injustice at everything that doesn’t work 100% perfectly, and make outrageous demands thinking that they should get whatever they want because they spent some money on the game. (You could spend a few hundred $ USD on the game and you still haven’t paid for even an hours worth of work by the ANet staff.)
I don’t care what you’ve said or done in the past, because in the present you’re just another bag of complaints doing the exact opposite of what you should do if you want something to be done about the problems you perceive.
I offered a suggestion for how to change traits. And I suggest you share your own alternative solutions in this thread instead of telling everyone you’re giving up on playing the game.
I don’t recall saying you were doing something worth reporting. And no I didn’t read 70 pages and don’t expect anyone to. And no I haven’t read your entire GW2 forum life story. But I did read a few of your post that you’ve been posting recently.
I’m personally recommending my friends stay away from the game in its current state. You should also know that if you create a new character, you’ll have to unlock all the traits, too.
Normally I’d be saving up for the sales in GW2 right now, but the last of my November entertainment money went to Steam. Feel free to drop me a message if you want my Steam name to add me there and keep in touch.
You’re talking about telling people to not play the game and that you’re moving your money to another game and people should hang out with you there instead of in-game.
And you’re doing it in the same entitled voice that I’m seeing all over the forums from people who complain unconstructively, cry foul-play and injustice at everything that doesn’t work 100% perfectly, and make outrageous demands thinking that they should get whatever they want because they spent some money on the game. (You could spend a few hundred $ USD on the game and you still haven’t paid for even an hours worth of work by the ANet staff.)
I don’t care what you’ve said or done in the past, because in the present you’re just another bag of complaints doing the exact opposite of what you should do if you want something to be done about the problems you perceive.
I offered a suggestion for how to change traits. And I suggest you share your own alternative solutions in this thread instead of telling everyone you’re giving up on playing the game.
Steam is not a game, it’s a social media site for gaming. I don’t know how to make that more clear.
I’ve shared plenty of ways to improve the traits system in the last seven and a half months. You don’t know me, and you’re not interested in getting to know me, and that’s fine, but if you want to lecture me about being constructive, I’m simply going to ignore you from here on out. Enjoy your completely ignorant arguments about how I should or should not be posting.
MoMo, I gave a similar suggestion as yours back in May for fixing the trait unlocks…and it’s gotten no hits from Anet. I understand Guhracie’s irritation with them, because right now it’s around the same for me, I’m playing this game far less than I used to, to the point where I’m not even logged in on Day 1 of the new Living Story chapters, and that’s bad. Before the LS was keeping me going, but now I’m finding myself wondering why I’m even doing them when there’s nothing driving me to keep playing, like making alts once did before the trait patch.
We’re all incredibly irritated because this should have been fixed months ago, the entire system has gotten such negative feedback from across the board that it should have been either scrapped, reverted, or adjusted to where it’s far better than before. Hell, a simple account bound unlock would have done the trick, so you could get a XIII trait for the Vitality traitline unlocked on a Guardian, and have that XIII trait also unlocked for your Ranger’s Vitality traitline.
But right now we are getting no major responses from Anet, not even a “we understand, we’re currently trying to fix this for the next feature patch”. We’re getting nothing of substance, and the game is losing a ton of players because of it, and NOBODY who likes this game wants it to go down in flames.
This would be fine if our feedback really mattered. As the trait system nears the one-year mark, however, I am less and less convinced that they’re interested in any of our ideas here. I am actually telling my friends/family that I do not want any gem cards for the holidays this year.
You’ve already stated you’ve given up on this game. Why not give up on the forum? ANet can’t appease everyone’s particular desires. Your opinion doesn’t always line up with others when it comes to what people want and what you want changed.
Becoming unshakably disgruntled at the game and trying to rally everyone to Team Hate-ANet and suggesting everyone quit and join you on steam is not a productive way to get what you want.
Here’s a link about giving CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and criticism:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback/first#post3383470
Mark Katzbach explains exactly how to be heard on the forums. If you want to be heard by ANet, follow his instructions.
There are 50+ pages of constructive feedback in this thread with absolutely no action taken by Anet besides “we are still listening.” Sure yeah some/a lot of the posts are just players complaining, but there are a LOT of posts with actual constructive feedback. At this point players aren’t just complaining about the traits, they’re complaining about the fact that Anet hasn’t done a single thing about the trait system in a year despite all the feedback.
I don’t recall saying you were doing something worth reporting. And no I didn’t read 70 pages and don’t expect anyone to. And no I haven’t read your entire GW2 forum life story. But I did read a few of your post that you’ve been posting recently.
I’m personally recommending my friends stay away from the game in its current state. You should also know that if you create a new character, you’ll have to unlock all the traits, too.
Normally I’d be saving up for the sales in GW2 right now, but the last of my November entertainment money went to Steam. Feel free to drop me a message if you want my Steam name to add me there and keep in touch.
You’re talking about telling people to not play the game and that you’re moving your money to another game and people should hang out with you there instead of in-game.
And you’re doing it in the same entitled voice that I’m seeing all over the forums from people who complain unconstructively, cry foul-play and injustice at everything that doesn’t work 100% perfectly, and make outrageous demands thinking that they should get whatever they want because they spent some money on the game. (You could spend a few hundred $ USD on the game and you still haven’t paid for even an hours worth of work by the ANet staff.)
I don’t care what you’ve said or done in the past, because in the present you’re just another bag of complaints doing the exact opposite of what you should do if you want something to be done about the problems you perceive.
I offered a suggestion for how to change traits. And I suggest you share your own alternative solutions in this thread instead of telling everyone you’re giving up on playing the game.
And you are just another entitled self important white knight telling people what to think, what to say and how to behave. The only entitled person here is you. You haven’t read the past 63 pages of feedback have you? No of course you haven’t. I pegged this as kitten on this game very quickly after the April patch and I’ve followed this thread since then. I have read every page and I can say unequivocally there is more than enough constructive feedback in this thread. I can think of at least three or four options suggested in the first 20 pages (probably including yours btw) or so that would have been a distinct improvement over the current system. In response we’ve gotten a minor tweak to the system and dev showing up and asking for a TL/DR in 8 months.
I offered a suggestion for how to change traits. And I suggest you share your own alternative solutions in this thread instead of telling everyone you’re giving up on playing the game.
We have been banging our heads on that particular brick wall since… well, April 15th. There is no hope now of them taking any action on our concerns. That’s not to say that they won’t… eventually… but this has been going on so long that many players, including myself, are now in utter despair regarding any improvements on this issue.
At one stage, a dev came in here and asked us specifically for a list of the trait requirements that gave us the most concern, and we listed them. I think a few changed, so there was a glimmer of hope that they actually listened to us and gave a hoot, but several dozen more pages of criticism have been posted since then.
Well, I am not writing off ANY chance of me returning to GW2, but the traits make it hard to see why I am hanging on to any of my post-April characters or why I should make new ones. In fact, if I ever do return, the trait changes as well as Ascended, and many of the other shambolic decisions made since April, will see me decimate my current character roll down to the quantity Anet seems to WANT me to have. AKA one on each account. Just a shame that Upgrade Extractors are pointlessly expensive.
In my opinion, the trait system change is by far the worst thing Anet has done to the game. It has limited my enjoyment of the game, but I still play because I enjoy things other than leveling new toons.
But that one thing I used to enjoy most, that’s not here anymore.
Most people know me as a support of Anet but this is one change that I’m having a tough time swallowing.
I speak harshly about the game these days, I know. Enough to get me infracted (again – I’m on 1800s post cooldown on this account now). I guess I feel I need to be so caustic in the wierd rationalisation that any response to my opinions is better than none!
But, as I have said before, it is only because I once had so much passion for GW2, and hate to see it in the state it is, and feeling that every ‘update’ Anet makes is like Opposite Day, where they do exactly what we don’t want or need, and refuse to even acknowledge us.
The trait change bothers me less than the Ascended rip-off. And both bother me far less than the feeling that there is a total disconnection between Anet and us.
Players like me can still be won back. All it takes is some consideration for how these changes have ruined the game for us. That’s the point here, this is NOT the game most of us bought.
In the meantime, if ever I do return to playing, I was wondering if there was any way other than that ludicrously priced Upgrade Extractor to salvage Soulbound items? I’d like to be able to break down the kit of some of my unwanted characters, so I have only one on each account.
Hello forum my old friend
It’s good to see you bug again
People citing things that no one said
People writing words that won’t be read
And a dev team biding with cotton balls in their ears
Disappears
Within the the sound of forums
Hello forum my old friend
It’s good to see you bug again
People citing things that no one said
People writing words that won’t be read
And a dev team biding with cotton balls in their ears
Disappears
Within the the sound of forums
Pure poetry.
Brought a tear to my eye.
In my opinion, the trait system change is by far the worst thing Anet has done to the game. It has limited my enjoyment of the game, but I still play because I enjoy things other than leveling new toons.
But that one thing I used to enjoy most, that’s not here anymore.
Most people know me as a support of Anet but this is one change that I’m having a tough time swallowing.
And coming from you, that means something (about being disgruntled with the Trait changes). You appear to be a lot more patient and supportive of Anet than most, so it definitely should mean something to others when you say you have “…a tough time swallowing [the trait changes].”
These were definitely a mistake. Traits that you can set at level 30-ish but you can’t because you need to unlock them in zones/events 20+ levels above you are particularly galling.
I recently saw a few people I know start playing. I then saw them stop shortly after. They are no longer interested in the game. When I asked them why, their answer boiled down to the following points.
1. Leveling felt like it was taking too long.
The key word here is “felt”. Like the old saying goes “a watched pot never boils”, it’s the idea that they didn’t enjoy it and therefore found it was taking too long. Had they enjoyed it, then it would’ve felt just fine. They enjoyed the personal story but since it can only be done every 10 levels and will only get you 1-3 levels, that is a lot of time spent between ‘chapters’ grinding levels. They were lucky enough that we had the numbers (and I had the 80s) to run the dungeons story mode. As they leveled and unlocked new dungeons, we got to experience each one’s story. However, they too are only good for a level for that first run. We would run it multiple times but just because of the reward.
2. The trait system.
While they never got to experience the way it used to be, they found the current system frustrating and just plain stupid. I could only agree with them. When I told them the way the old system worked, they found the change from what it was to what it is to be even more stupid and that “Anet are morons for even doing that”.
3. Missing out on things come to past.
This is where I disagree with them but this is their reasons that I’m listing so I’ll list it. Basically it has to do with the living story, major events, and the rewards that can be obtained at the time. They didn’t like the idea that they “missed out” on these things just because they didn’t play the game at the time.
There were a few other odds and ends but those three stood out with the first two being the biggest issues that they had.
I recently saw a few people I know start playing. I then saw them stop shortly after. They are no longer interested in the game. When I asked them why, their answer boiled down to the following points.
1. Leveling felt like it was taking too long.
The key word here is “felt”. Like the old saying goes “a watched pot never boils”, it’s the idea that they didn’t enjoy it and therefore found it was taking too long. Had they enjoyed it, then it would’ve felt just fine. They enjoyed the personal story but since it can only be done every 10 levels and will only get you 1-3 levels, that is a lot of time spent between ‘chapters’ grinding levels.
I think a major flaw in this game is the pacing in general. The story missions taking 10 levels between each unlock is one part of the problem. Not unlocking traits until level 30 and then waiting 6 levels to get 1 trait is another part of the pacing problem (especially once you consider the unlock requirements as well).
I think the NPE tried to make the pacing more exciting but also messed some things up as well. For example they clumped the skill points and stat upgrades together to make little power spikes to make things more exciting, but in return they had to make them more infrequent. They gave little level up rewards to make leveling up more exciting, except most of the rewards aren’t THAT exciting and the rewards that ACTUALLY matter (skill points, trait points, stat increases) are spread out very thinly.
I think they need to have story missions unlock every 5 levels instead of every 10 levels. And give skill points and stat increases more frequently, and start trait points earlier.
I will never level another character in this game under the current trait system. I now have a new level 80 ele that has only a few traits unlocked. When I get tired of trying to chase these traits down, I will just fold up shop and move on to another game. The idea that it take 360 skill points to “unlock” all your traits is ridiculous. I don’t want to spend my limited play time chasing events or doing some other ridiculous task to unlock traits that I used to get from a trainer by purchasing a book.
3. Missing out on things come to past.
This is where I disagree with them but this is their reasons that I’m listing so I’ll list it. Basically it has to do with the living story, major events, and the rewards that can be obtained at the time. They didn’t like the idea that they “missed out” on these things just because they didn’t play the game at the time.
This is a huge irritant for me too. It’s immersion-breaking. If I was in Tyria, there’s no way I wouldn’t know about the LS events. And I hate that content existed in the game before, and now it’s taken out. It’s one of my huge pet peeves with games. I like exploring and collecting, but when I’m trying to explore a moving target (with content coming and going) or can’t ever finish a set (like minis) I just lose interest.
I understand them wanting to charge for the story, but when the story drives the whole world, that seriously messes with the credibility of the world.
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