Guild Wars 2

krapmyself.2817:

Anybody with a character prior to the system change has nothing to worry about, except for getting that last t3 trait, which isn’t a big deal since most are useless for most classes anyway.

Until they go to make a new alt or two. The way this was rolled out has dampened the outcry against it if they’d put everyone on a level playing field. If I’d had to unlock traits for my 11 level 80 characters, I’d have uninstalled.

Any character created since April will have all 65 traits to unlock. With the same 65 tasks. Including:

• Zone complete Blazeridge Steppes for a single adept tier trait!
• Complete obsidian sanctum for the fall damage reduction trait! (Yeah, that’s hilarious, guys…)
• Kill the grub in wvw!
• Complete a level 70 personal story step! (which is now actually level-gated, so you actually can’t even attempt this task until you’re ten levels above where the trait is unlocked)

nightwulf.1986:

<snip>

I never understood the point of view that because something doesn’t turn out the way they expect, it means they weren’t heard or understood. It is not an individual idea that often shapes an outcome like the trait system changes but a myriad of them. I bet all those people asking for mounts and the holy trinity back feel like anet doesn’t listen either. Keep the perspective people.

Not the same thing.

Mounts and the holy trinity were never in the game. The devs have never said they would be added.

Traits were in the game and most people were happy with them. They were massively changed last April. A lot of people in this thread have said they like the idea of the new system, but hate the implementation, me included.

The reason so many of us think Anet doesn’t listen to us is that devs have come into this thread repeatedly to “reassure” us, saying they know there’s a problem with traits… and nothing happens. One of them flat out admitted that he didn’t bother reading the previous 40 pages (or was that the 30 page dev, I forgot), asking us to summarize and keep cranking out suggestions. Then he vanished.

Now Gaile has to come in and reassure us every now and then. I don’t envy her her job and don’t hold her in onus for it.

Not much more I can say in this thread, except to say I am hoping and praying that the trait system becomes more doable for soloers and small groups…or at least reduce the amount of skillpoints necessary for unlocking.

Lisa-Fingers and Toes and Eyes crossed…I look quite the sight with my eyes crossed

nGumball.1283:

It is the same concept regardless.
Create a new character and you will have to re-collect the skills.

actually you’re seeing it wrong, it’s not skills you have to compare this with, it’s attribute points.
imagine you have to finish a chapter to gain 10 attribute points or you have to finish all the quests in vabbi for 15 more, that’s how traits work.

Guhracie.3419:

krapmyself.2817:

Anybody with a character prior to the system change has nothing to worry about, except for getting that last t3 trait, which isn’t a big deal since most are useless for most classes anyway.

Until they go to make a new alt or two. The way this was rolled out has dampened the outcry against it if they’d put everyone on a level playing field. If I’d had to unlock traits for my 11 level 80 characters, I’d have uninstalled.

Any character created since April will have all 65 traits to unlock. With the same 65 tasks. Including:

• Zone complete Blazeridge Steppes for a single adept tier trait!
• Complete obsidian sanctum for the fall damage reduction trait! (Yeah, that’s hilarious, guys…)
• Kill the grub in wvw!
• Complete a level 70 personal story step! (which is now actually level-gated, so you actually can’t even attempt this task until you’re ten levels above where the trait is unlocked)

I gotta say these requirements for the trait acquisitions are hardly incentives to “try” different builds, not to mention that they were afraid that newer players were distributing their traits incorrectly, like 11 in power and 14 in precision (what a crock!). After leveling 1 to 80, plus 3 more, still not 80’s, in this horrendous new system, I’ve been picking a build from level 30 and only getting those traits which I need, not by exploration, but paying for the traits for the most part (it’s easier). (wish I hadn’t deleted those 80’s to do it, tho). Not to mention the difficulty the current trait system has created for leveling Mesmers & Engineers, neither of which shine until they’re max level. (both of which I mistakenly am doing)

Gaile Gray.6029:

I totally understand the skepticism that you’re expressing. It has been a long time. But I know and trust the team, and I’ve heard enough details of the plans to give me confidence that progress and improvements are actively being made.

And thanks, from me to you, for not being nasty about it, or throwing a golem-sized boulder in my direction. I know that what I posted isn’t the substantive information you’d like to have. I can say that from all I hear it shouldn’t betoo long before there is some info we can share. I’m not saying “this week” but I’m definitely not pointing at Q2 2015!

My fear is more evenly placed on how it’s going to be changed, rather than when.

Really, I wouldn’t be surprised if traits turned into a “We fixed traits, and made them more accessible… but we’re leaving traits character bound, and now you can only gain 5 traits once-per-day-per-character. have fun!”

This is obviously an extreme, but I mean, things like this are already in game now…and they’ve put me off from staying in game for too long, if at all.
Good Luck Anet.

Julischka Bean.7491:

or at least reduce the amount of skillpoints necessary for unlocking.

Apologies for the tangent, but why are SP the part people complain about? For me it’s the gold cost that’s prohibitive. I have more SP than I can ever possibly use, and get more all the time whenever my 80 “levels” (not to mention those from exploring maps I haven’t completed yet).

I’d think that experienced players wouldn’t have much problem with either part of the cost (aside from the historical anger that the cost used to be over 10x cheaper) – and they’re probably what the costs were designed around. Is there some other important SP sink that level 80s need to save for?

Worblehat.8697:

Julischka Bean.7491:

or at least reduce the amount of skillpoints necessary for unlocking.

Apologies for the tangent, but why are SP the part people complain about? For me it’s the gold cost that’s prohibitive. I have more SP than I can ever possibly use, and get more all the time whenever my 80 “levels” (not to mention those from exploring maps I haven’t completed yet).

I’d think that experienced players wouldn’t have much problem with either part of the cost (aside from the historical anger that the cost used to be over 10x cheaper) – and they’re probably what the costs were designed around. Is there some other important SP sink that level 80s need to save for?

Experienced players may have an excess, but new players need them to buy skills as well as traits. I remember when starting out, having to accumulate skill points before I could get an utility skill. It would have been doubly painful to have to save up for traits as well.

For experienced players, a legendary requires 200 skill points. People may be saving up for that. Many use skill points to make gold by promoting items in the mystic forge and no longer have excess skill points for that reason or don’t want to give up that income. If you make ascended gear, it takes 20 skill points per piece. A number of mystic forged weapons (with unique skins) take 50 sps.

Worblehat.8697:

Julischka Bean.7491:

or at least reduce the amount of skillpoints necessary for unlocking.

Apologies for the tangent, but why are SP the part people complain about? For me it’s the gold cost that’s prohibitive. I have more SP than I can ever possibly use, and get more all the time whenever my 80 “levels” (not to mention those from exploring maps I haven’t completed yet).

I’d think that experienced players wouldn’t have much problem with either part of the cost (aside from the historical anger that the cost used to be over 10x cheaper) – and they’re probably what the costs were designed around. Is there some other important SP sink that level 80s need to save for?

Skillpoints are character bound, particularly when you’re talking about a character at level 80 “leveling” again. This is about characters that are leveling up, and those characters need skill points for actual skills. Unless you’re suggesting that traits should be accessible after level 80, which simply doesn’t work for most professions. Also, the fact that unlocking all the traits (which previously cost less than 3g) now requires more skill points than there are skill challenges by over 150 is ridiculous. Couple that with the fact that there are components for mystic forge recipes (for actual long-term goals) that are sold for skill points, yeah, it’s a strain on veterans who don’t tend to pvp or wvw heavily.

Worblehat.8697:

Julischka Bean.7491:

or at least reduce the amount of skillpoints necessary for unlocking.

Apologies for the tangent, but why are SP the part people complain about? For me it’s the gold cost that’s prohibitive. I have more SP than I can ever possibly use, and get more all the time whenever my 80 “levels” (not to mention those from exploring maps I haven’t completed yet).

I’d think that experienced players wouldn’t have much problem with either part of the cost (aside from the historical anger that the cost used to be over 10x cheaper) – and they’re probably what the costs were designed around. Is there some other important SP sink that level 80s need to save for?

I honestly think that both are absurd as they’ve been set and people are mostly just bandying over which cost they personally find the more restrictive.

It costs an arm and a leg compared to what it used to. Which one misses more between either appendage is somewhat moot.

I don’t hate the idea of doing things to unlock traits at all, which is a little but ironic to me, because they managed to structure this in such a way as that a favored method I advocate as the best go-to for player engagement (always giving the players something to do to earn or acquire their shinies) had been mangled in the execution so…ruthlessly… That I recoil from it.

They never should have gone so far as they did in just randomly scattering trait unlocks throughout everything. Now, it’s guaranteed to be of maximum annoyance and tedium, as well as expense of either time or cash-valued gold, to even get to a point of being able to function appropriately in one own class. There’s a liberal dose of something for everyone to hate in going for a fully unlocked character now, no matter your favorite playstyle.

They went much too far, demonstrated not the slightest awareness let alone concern for the player experience in utilization of this system and most dismaying of all, have kept it just kitten for nearly a year.

Most people have the decency to at least apologize when they’ve figuratively run over your mailbox, not back over it did more times to make sure it’s utterly dead and then his like lepers in a storm drain, refusing to even piteously explain their actions or seem to do much of anything about it except seem to think that they’ve fixed it.

It’s fixed in the same way a perfectly good house is fixed by a mob with sledgehammers spending an energetic day bashing ask the walls in and kicking the debris into a pile in the day room might be.

Whatever definition of ‘fixed’ we must subscribe to in order to apply it here must indeed be so stretched, so bizarrely mutated and unrelated to all other known definitions that our might behoove us to coin an entirely new term of phrase for it.

But then, no need to reinvent the wheel when the word ‘trashed’ is existent, is there. No need to strain one’s self coming up with a new phonetic, such as ‘scramblurghled’ might at least sound appropriate in addressing when plain ol’ ‘wrecked’ is available and relevant.

I should hope they’re ‘aware of our concerns’. They’ve bloody ‘fixed’ something that wasn’t broken right into the trash bin. I have literally fired people for incompetence of significantly lesser extremity at my own work.

It speaks to their priorities though. There can be no further confusion as to what they do and do not care about where the player experience is concerned.

So, if nothing else, they’ve let it be known that they have a pet rock’s concern for it, and far more clearly than merely saying so every could have. Actions, you know – louder than words every time.

After making a new character, I’ve finally started to experience all the NPE changes. I must say that a majority of them are not as good as ArenaNet wants them to be. A positive change would have to be the ability to re-trait anytime, anywhere for free. The other changes are, in my opinion, bad. Having to complete a task to unlock a trait is tedious to no end and we’re talking about all the major traits. Otherwise, they would be locked making you unable to use them.

But, say you choose the option of buying them. The cost is ridiculously more compared to the old system. 43g + 360sp for all 65 traits. Back then, the 3 manuals together cost: 3g10s. I felt the pacing wasn’t bad with the 3 manuals. One was at lv 11, 40, then 60. Inbetween the lvls, players should/would have accumulated enough gold to buy them.

The new system has you running all over the map to complete tedious tasks on just one character. This definitely has players think twice before wanting to make new characters nowadays. It has officially become a grindfest, even though the game initially was casual.

Astral Projections.7320:

Experienced players may have an excess, but new players need them to buy skills as well as traits. I remember when starting out, having to accumulate skill points before I could get an utility skill. It would have been doubly painful to have to save up for traits as well.

For experienced players, a legendary requires 200 skill points. People may be saving up for that. Many use skill points to make gold by promoting items in the mystic forge and no longer have excess skill points for that reason or don’t want to give up that income. If you make ascended gear, it takes 20 skill points per piece. A number of mystic forged weapons (with unique skins) take 50 sps.

I am a new player myself, and had no trouble unlocking all my actual skills, plus saving up a huge excess in case I needed to buy traits. There are still tons of traits I don’t have (after nearly a week at 80, I think I’m at 16/30 blue, 8/20 green, and 5/15 yellow) but nothing that looks so critical to have that I’d spend the gold on it. So I ended up making the Mystic Claymore as my level 80 weapon since it saved me about 3g over buying a crafted sword (not to mention that those pearl greatswords look terrible). And I still have a ton of SP left over, though at least it’s back down under 100 again.

But crafting ascended gear is not even on my horizon, and the only thing I’ll ever do with a legendary precursor is sell it, so I think that explains the difference in opinion on which cost is more egregious. I like the arm and a leg phrasing. Thanks for the explanation!

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey there,

Colin Johanson and I had a chat about this thread today. He actually brought it up because he wanted to make sure that forum members know that the dev team is very aware of the concerns that our players feel about traits, and also to let you know that the devs read and refer to this subject (and particularly this thread) quite frequently. We’ve said it before, but it remains true: Your voices are being heard and your input is valued.

We wish there was more to say today, but please take heart that this subject is part of current development team discussions and we’ll let you know more as soon as we reasonably can do so.

Ty very much Gaile! I think its good to know that devs are still paying attention to this post and its not being ignored even though they arent providing much detail as to what is being done as long as our input is taken into consideration. I do look forward to what they come up with.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I can say that from all I hear it shouldn’t betoo long before there is some info we can share.

Gaile, a good while back now, when the whole “Communicating with You” thread came into being, Colin promised more and better communication.

It’s been 8 months that this thread has existed, and still nothing of any true value has been said one way or the other on what’s happening to traits. No real information has been given to the playerbase. But supposedly, we might, just maybe, soonish, maybe, maybe, in the unknown but totally close but not guaranteed future, get -some- info.

I’m sorry, Gaile, but why does your job exist, exactly? I don’t wanna bash on you, I think you’re cool, but I just don’t see it. I don’t see what point there is in having a Communications Lead when no communication is actually occurring.

If it takes another month before -some- info comes out, that means people will have waited 9 months on the Traits thread to hear -anything- at all of substance. And if it takes more than a month, it may become a whole year before anything was ever said.

9+ months of no actual information or more and better communication.

Choose one.

Worblehat.8697:

Astral Projections.7320:

Experienced players may have an excess, but new players need them to buy skills as well as traits. I remember when starting out, having to accumulate skill points before I could get an utility skill. It would have been doubly painful to have to save up for traits as well.

For experienced players, a legendary requires 200 skill points. People may be saving up for that. Many use skill points to make gold by promoting items in the mystic forge and no longer have excess skill points for that reason or don’t want to give up that income. If you make ascended gear, it takes 20 skill points per piece. A number of mystic forged weapons (with unique skins) take 50 sps.

I am a new player myself, and had no trouble unlocking all my actual skills, plus saving up a huge excess in case I needed to buy traits. There are still tons of traits I don’t have (after nearly a week at 80, I think I’m at 16/30 blue, 8/20 green, and 5/15 yellow) but nothing that looks so critical to have that I’d spend the gold on it. So I ended up making the Mystic Claymore as my level 80 weapon since it saved me about 3g over buying a crafted sword (not to mention that those pearl greatswords look terrible). And I still have a ton of SP left over, though at least it’s back down under 100 again.

But crafting ascended gear is not even on my horizon, and the only thing I’ll ever do with a legendary precursor is sell it, so I think that explains the difference in opinion on which cost is more egregious. I like the arm and a leg phrasing. Thanks for the explanation!

And now:
Come back after you’ve made your 3rd toon and leveled them and gotten their traits. Come back after you’ve tried to have a toon with the ability and flexibility to change builds on the fly with fully complimenting armor sets and weapon sets.
Come back after running all those toons in something like WvW were changing builds for a given situation is almost necessary at times.

Let us know how well you’re doing on skill points, gold, and build choices then and realize that many of us have way more alts than that, with many being made after the trait update. These are things you don’t realize at the moment.

BentoDetective.6491:

After making a new character, I’ve finally started to experience all the NPE changes. I must say that a majority of them are not as good as ArenaNet wants them to be. A positive change would have to be the ability to re-trait anytime, anywhere for free. The other changes are, in my opinion, bad. Having to complete a task to unlock a trait is tedious to no end and we’re talking about all the major traits. Otherwise, they would be locked making you unable to use them.

But, say you choose the option of buying them. The cost is ridiculously more compared to the old system. 43g + 360sp for all 65 traits. Back then, the 3 manuals together cost: 3g10s. I felt the pacing wasn’t bad with the 3 manuals. One was at lv 11, 40, then 60. Inbetween the lvls, players should/would have accumulated enough gold to buy them.

The new system has you running all over the map to complete tedious tasks on just one character. This definitely has players think twice before wanting to make new characters nowadays. It has officially become a grindfest, even though the game initially was casual.

Just want to be clear that the Trait change happened LONG before the NPE and has nothing to do with the changes made in the NPE. It IS however something very noticeable when looked at in the light of the NPE and what Anet was trying to go for with it. The trait change is actually at odds with it.

I leveled 9 chars to 80 the old pre NPE/trait system way and enjoyed it. I’m saving up tomes now in case they give us a new profession/race so the new trait system will have the least impact on me. I’ll still have to do it but at least I can power through and get the minimum needed for one build. (So much for the new trait system encouraging experimentation).

Astral Projections.7320:

I leveled 9 chars to 80 the old pre NPE/trait system way and enjoyed it. I’m saving up tomes now in case they give us a new profession/race so the new trait system will have the least impact on me. I’ll still have to do it but at least I can power through and get the minimum needed for one build. (So much for the new trait system encouraging experimentation).

Yes, that is a great plan. But the tomes shouldn’t be the answer to the leveling process. Not saying they’re bad, but the NPE just doesn’t cut it when the old system was better. The new system locks many, many things. Restrictions don’t lead to experimentation. The NPE isn’t as new-player friendly as Anet claims. If anything, it tests our patience.

BentoDetective.6491:

Astral Projections.7320:

I leveled 9 chars to 80 the old pre NPE/trait system way and enjoyed it. I’m saving up tomes now in case they give us a new profession/race so the new trait system will have the least impact on me. I’ll still have to do it but at least I can power through and get the minimum needed for one build. (So much for the new trait system encouraging experimentation).

Yes, that is a great plan. But the tomes shouldn’t be the answer to the leveling process. Not saying they’re bad, but the NPE just doesn’t cut it when the old system was better. The new system locks many, many things. Restrictions don’t lead to experimentation. The NPE isn’t as new-player friendly as Anet claims. If anything, it tests our patience.

I think you’ll find that Astral is in agreement with your assessment, here. If anything, the user’s post was meant to shine a light on the very points you raise, and I agree. It is appalling to have to find workarounds for what was previously my favorite part of the game.

My suggestion and I am not sure if someone else posted this.

Make it so that all trait roman numerals are linked to all professions in a Trait Line. Once you unlock a specific number it is then unlocked for all characters no matter the class.

Why do this? Doing a specific event or task one time is enough. The experience does not change if you are doing it with a Guardian or Mesmer. It’s just busy work and sure it’s great for new players to experience such things after your 3rd alt you start to hate the system. If the experience was different I could see some justification but its not it is the same for every class in the game http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide .

I may be mistaken but I thought this game prided itself on not having crazy fetch quests? Well this seems to me just that, a crazy fetch quest.

This change just kill the game
with just 3 gold you can get all your traits and be able to make countless builds, now you want 50+ gold and 130+ skill points, it really not fun. Run away through the map to do a event only for a trai, it only do the character uniformize, all character of X class only use X>X>X> build.
About some week, 2 IRL friends start play GW2 and both leave the game, i can’t understand what happened with they, but i decided leveling my 9° character, and when i reach lvl36 (before you star build in lvl10) “surprise” i cant have any one trat to distribu.
The game is death and this system never attract new players because it’s just not fun.

Not sure if this suggestion has been posted here before, as I haven’t even read 10 pages of this thread, but I figured I might as well post it anyway.

My idea is for an item called a Trait Book Token, to be stored in the account wallet, which could be exchanged for trait books at a profession trainer. A small number of these tokens could be used to void either the skill point or the gold cost of purchasing a trait book, so as to satisfy both those who lack skill points and those who lack gold, or a larger number of the tokens could be used to void both the skillpoint and the gold cost of the book. These tokens would drop from champion bags, jumping puzzle and dungeon chests, PvP and WvW rank up chests, and various monsters.

Of course, the better solution would be to just revert to the old system, because gating traits discourages build experimentation and swapping, which is the last thing this game needs.

Sins, I appreciate your effort in coming up with an idea, but I am really against any trait tokens “dropping” in champ bags, etc. Traits should not be “loot”. They are a core piece of your character, and therefore should not be at all subject to RNG. Just my 2 cents. I do agree that reverting to the old system would be great, but I also doubt ANet will do that, as they could have done this within the last 8-9 months had they thought that was the way to go.

So ya, I’m just really dreading what they will actually come up with, hoping beyond reason that it will actually be better than what we have now. My gut tells me they cherry picked one suggestion out of the many, many posed and it will be whichever one is least fun and costs the most gold/time/etc.

Ya, I’m cynical at this point. Hard to be anything but.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Trying is the operative word. The GW system was capturing elite skills from the corpses of bosses who had and used the skill.

• Being completely instanced, most of the GW bosses were on demand. GW2 trait capture is often not on demand.
• Elite skills were not level-gated the way traits are. Acquiring them was generally a max level pursuit, not a leveling pursuit.
• All elite skills could be capped with just Heroes or Henchmen. Some GW2 traits require a group.
• Skill capping is a system that was implemented alongside the elite skills in the first place. Trait capping is a revision of an earlier system, utilizing existing content.
• One can only enter a GW instance with one Elite Skill. In Gw2, one can have up to 7 traits equipped. Thus, in order to fully flesh out a build, one has to cap 7 v. capping 1.

The only real similarity is that players do stuff to get something pertinent to their build. Beyond that, the two systems are very dissimilar.

Pretty much this. I’d also like to add, however, that they eventually realized what a downer this system was for PvPers, and they added a way to acquire skills strictly through PvP. They even went so far as to allow players to purchase skill unlock packs for cash. This is what has me so thoroughly confused. In the past I had the feeling that ArenaNet was always learning from mistakes and moving forward with better designs. This trait system feels like the complete antithesis of their previous design choices.

It’s not just traits, either. This morning I watched my wife run halfway across the Straits of Devastation on her first level 80 character, unlocking three different waypoints along the way, only to die and have to go back to the beginning of the zone because all the other waypoints were contested. Why even have a waypoint if you can’t ever use it? When they created GW1 ArenaNet understood that walking back to the same place players have already struggled to reach makes for a boring time. At least, that’s what they claimed in their media releases. Now they’re rolling back the clock on that and moving back to punishing players for exploring. I hardly recognize the company anymore.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey there,

Colin Johanson and I had a chat about this thread today. He actually brought it up because he wanted to make sure that forum members know that the dev team is very aware of the concerns that our players feel about traits, and also to let you know that the devs read and refer to this subject (and particularly this thread) quite frequently. We’ve said it before, but it remains true: Your voices are being heard and your input is valued.

We wish there was more to say today, but please take heart that this subject is part of current development team discussions and we’ll let you know more as soon as we reasonably can do so.

Where I work we too have problems we talk about. We talk about them, complain, say what we’d like to do about it, and then… nothing. We move on and do what we’re told to do, and the problems dumped on us by someone else’s bad choices remain because we’re told to just put up with them.

I hope whatever you guys come up with “soon”, if it makes it out to the live servers at all, is an improvement. For the sake of your own sanity, if nothing else. Me? I’ve given up hope on you guys.

Fredjesus.7085:

This change just kill the game
with just 3 gold you can get all your traits and be able to make countless builds, now you want 50+ gold and 130+ skill points, it really not fun. Run away through the map to do a event only for a trai, it only do the character uniformize, all character of X class only use X>X>X> build.
About some week, 2 IRL friends start play GW2 and both leave the game, i can’t understand what happened with they, but i decided leveling my 9° character, and when i reach lvl36 (before you star build in lvl10) “surprise” i cant have any one trat to distribu.
The game is death and this system never attract new players because it’s just not fun.

I hear ya. Old friend of mine recently came back and disappeared after a few attempts at making new toons. He did not like the new trait system. On top of that, last thing he told me was: “What happened to the pet control?” on his new lvl 2 ranger. Now everyday I look for him and only see lvl 2 ranger as his last log in.

So, things like NPE, trait change,.. everything lately seems to chop down the game some more. I’m baffled by why so much effort is spent in destroying a fine game.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Worblehat.8697:

Astral Projections.7320:

Experienced players may have an excess, but new players need them to buy skills as well as traits. I remember when starting out, having to accumulate skill points before I could get an utility skill. It would have been doubly painful to have to save up for traits as well.

For experienced players, a legendary requires 200 skill points. People may be saving up for that. Many use skill points to make gold by promoting items in the mystic forge and no longer have excess skill points for that reason or don’t want to give up that income. If you make ascended gear, it takes 20 skill points per piece. A number of mystic forged weapons (with unique skins) take 50 sps.

I am a new player myself, and had no trouble unlocking all my actual skills, plus saving up a huge excess in case I needed to buy traits. There are still tons of traits I don’t have (after nearly a week at 80, I think I’m at 16/30 blue, 8/20 green, and 5/15 yellow) but nothing that looks so critical to have that I’d spend the gold on it. So I ended up making the Mystic Claymore as my level 80 weapon since it saved me about 3g over buying a crafted sword (not to mention that those pearl greatswords look terrible). And I still have a ton of SP left over, though at least it’s back down under 100 again.

But crafting ascended gear is not even on my horizon, and the only thing I’ll ever do with a legendary precursor is sell it, so I think that explains the difference in opinion on which cost is more egregious. I like the arm and a leg phrasing. Thanks for the explanation!

And now:
Come back after you’ve made your 3rd toon and leveled them and gotten their traits. Come back after you’ve tried to have a toon with the ability and flexibility to change builds on the fly with fully complimenting armor sets and weapon sets.
Come back after running all those toons in something like WvW were changing builds for a given situation is almost necessary at times.

Let us know how well you’re doing on skill points, gold, and build choices then and realize that many of us have way more alts than that, with many being made after the trait update. These are things you don’t realize at the moment.

Come back once you understand the conversation you’re jumping into.

For some reason you seem to believe I’m defending the trait system somehow. I defy you to find the slightest shred of evidence for that. Go ahead and look in this very thread, I’m on record a few pages back agreeing with everyone else that it’s a terrible system.

All I did was ask a very simple question about why everyone else felt the SP part of the unlock costs was the worst part, while I consider the gold cost to be worse. Astral Projections and naiasonod understood that perfectly well and gave clear and helpful answers. I’m upset at the prospect of losing an arm, the rest of you are more upset at the prospect of losing a leg, either way it’s ridiculous.

For the record, my alts retire at 30 since I have no interest in doing the trait scavenger hunt a second (or fifth) time. Couldn’t care less about WvW, so whatever.

Worblehat.8697:

All I did was ask a very simple question about why everyone else felt the SP part of the unlock costs was the worst part, while I consider the gold cost to be worse. Astral Projections and naiasonod understood that perfectly well and gave clear and helpful answers. I’m upset at the prospect of losing an arm, the rest of you are more upset at the prospect of losing a leg, either way it’s ridiculous.

I can make the gold to work with the costs, and I still think the cost is pretty bad. The SP can be gotten around, sure, especially if you’re running map completions or champ trains enough to have barrels of scrolls.

The alternative costs are . . . a bit crazy. Added to one of them having a very specific unlock (Take the Gates of Arah . . . not defend, but take them) and you have a problem. Especially since any trip I make to Cursed Shore, that’s been left in the defense mode for ages.

nGumball.1283:

LordEnki.9283:

saalle.4623:

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

I can certainly understand and respect your viewpoint. However I feel that extra busy work isn’t a replacement for content. Especially when it can be circumvented for some gold.

There is no MMORPG with enough content. It is all about what the MMO forces you to do.

Whether or not there is enough content has more to do with another argument and little to do with me saying that busy work like the trait system isn’t a replacement for content.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I can make the gold to work with the costs, and I still think the cost is pretty bad. The SP can be gotten around, sure, especially if you’re running map completions or champ trains enough to have barrels of scrolls.

The alternative costs are . . . a bit crazy. Added to one of them having a very specific unlock (Take the Gates of Arah . . . not defend, but take them) and you have a problem. Especially since any trip I make to Cursed Shore, that’s been left in the defense mode for ages.

A lot of the unlocks are crazy, from what I’ve seen. I’ve heard nobody ever does that grub in WvW (and I wouldn’t do any of the WvW unlocks, regardless); Fields of Ruin map chat always seems to be informing people that the Foulbear chieftain event chain is broken, which if true means purchase is the only unlock method for that one. I’ve heard that dredge commissar is busted too. The Foulbear thing was the last straw for me that established my “retire alts at 30” policy, since that was next on my list for my guardian…

And then there’s the wildly disproportionate unlocks, even at the same level. Reach the chest in a simple almost-soloable bandit cave in Kessex Hills, vs. do a group puzzle dungeon in Diessa Plateau (that the telescope icon points you to the wrong place for, since the entrance portal is quite a ways away). Or your Gates of Arah example, compared to simply finding the wrecked ship on the beach a bit south of there, or running up the “source of Orr” passage in the real world instead of the personal story instance. So inconsistent…

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I have to add my voice to this.
I am so very thankful that I made most of my functional characters before the new trait system was introduced.
Good idea, HORRIBLE execution.
The things to complete have absolutely no bearing on the actual trait (otherwise it might actually make it interesting!).
They’re exactly the same for each character, so if you have more than maybe two characters, it turns into a major grind.
I miss being able to see all my traits whenever I wanted to. And the cost to unlock them can be exorbitant. So your options for said 3rd character are: grind out the events/map completions/etc. despite feeling brain-dead doing it, suck it up and pay for the traits (assuming you can get enough skill points and gold, which is another grind), or be completely ineffective. How is this a good thing? In ANY way?
I have no problem with learning my skills. Just… not this way. Not this way, A-Net.
And don’t get me started on the event-based ones. With events that are broken, or constantly defended so you can’t do the capture. (I think Foulbear was broken before the patch, or at least I’ve only ever fought the chieftan once despite all my Charrs that passed through there on their way to 80.)

I also hate the NPE, now giving out skill points and attribute increases in batches, or sometimes just gear for leveling up (who thought that was a good idea?), giving skills at level unlocks facepalms (like just about every other fricking MMO out there), and generally destroying the leveling experience/NPE that I really, really enjoyed when I first came to the game.
I loved unlocking skills as you went. It made sense to learn how to do more with the weapon the more you used it. Now? Being unable to go underwater until… level 7 or 12 or something? Really?
/end rant

I just felt like I had to add my voice to this. Please, A-Net, don’t try to fix what isn’t broken. With the addition of free re-traits, I WANT MY OLD SYSTEM BACK!
Free re-traits, yes. pats on the back You did good there. The rest of the changes to leveling, traits, etc? grabs a sledgehammer

Rinhara.6450:

I have to add my voice to this.
I am so very thankful that I made most of my functional characters before the new trait system was introduced.
Good idea, HORRIBLE execution.

Idea as a part of the initial game – acceptable
Idea as a more restrictive rewrite to a game functioning fine for years – terrible
Execution of said rewrite – horrible

…
I also hate the NPE, now giving out skill points and attribute increases in batches, or sometimes just gear for leveling up (who thought that was a good idea?), giving skills at level unlocks facepalms (like just about every other fricking MMO out there), and generally destroying the leveling experience/NPE that I really, really enjoyed when I first came to the game.
I loved unlocking skills as you went. It made sense to learn how to do more with the weapon the more you used it. Now? Being unable to go underwater until… level 7 or 12 or something? Really?
/end rant

Agree

I just felt like I had to add my voice to this. Please, A-Net, don’t try to fix what isn’t broken. With the addition of free re-traits, I WANT MY OLD SYSTEM BACK!
Free re-traits, yes. pats on the back You did good there. The rest of the changes to leveling, traits, etc? grabs a sledgehammer

I totally agree.

I have to agree with the above posts to keep the free re-trait feature, but change what was recently changed in the NPE; back to what it was. This is not just a wa-wa themed rant on the forums, which is fairly standard these days, and honestly I would love to see to see this changed ASAP.

This system makes me “not want to play well with others”.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

The tasks assigned to unlocking the traits don’t actually have anything to do with the traits themselves. I feel the change made was meant to extend our gameplay without concern whether or not it’s tedious or repetitious. By comparison, the old system was way better. Will Anet return to the old system? It’s doubtful and it’d look bad on them. The only thing they’re willing to do is make a few changes here and there to lessen the miserable experience.

I just hope that Anet will change the trait system. And this time, let’s make the players feel it’s fun and not chore-like. I still state that this game is still an awesome game. The level of awesome was just lowered due to a few unnecessary changes.

Worblehat.8697:

All I did was ask a very simple question about why everyone else felt the SP part of the unlock costs was the worst part, while I consider the gold cost to be worse. Astral Projections and naiasonod understood that perfectly well and gave clear and helpful answers. I’m upset at the prospect of losing an arm, the rest of you are more upset at the prospect of losing a leg, either way it’s ridiculous.

I used to be right there with you, but you answered your own question. Crafting ascended gear requires materials that are purchased with skill points. Once you start down that path, all those skill points that you’ve accrued are going to go fast. I’m in your boat, however. The gold costs in and of themselves are prohibitive to me. I’ve gotten most of my traits through event/boss/WvW acquisition. I’m still missing about 18 of them, however.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

I beg to differ.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m a bit confused. I never had a problem with that. You just had to be familiar with the boss and watch his cast bar very carefully. I usually did one trial run to analyze his patterns, and then I would retreat and figure out a plan of attack. This is why I preferred the old system to the one we have now. I have very little control over when and if I’m going to capture a given trait. Many require you to camp events and hope you get enough people to participate to make it happen. Under the old system I could H&H bosses at will. I was in control over whether or not I would get a given skill. The current system puts that control everywhere but in my hands for many traits.

Worblehat.8697:

Come back once you understand the conversation you’re jumping into.

For some reason you seem to believe I’m defending the trait system somehow. I defy you to find the slightest shred of evidence for that. Go ahead and look in this very thread, I’m on record a few pages back agreeing with everyone else that it’s a terrible system.

All I did was ask a very simple question about why everyone else felt the SP part of the unlock costs was the worst part, while I consider the gold cost to be worse. Astral Projections and naiasonod understood that perfectly well and gave clear and helpful answers. I’m upset at the prospect of losing an arm, the rest of you are more upset at the prospect of losing a leg, either way it’s ridiculous.

For the record, my alts retire at 30 since I have no interest in doing the trait scavenger hunt a second (or fifth) time. Couldn’t care less about WvW, so whatever.

Actually I’ve been here since the beginning and I was specifically responding to that post you made regarding having those SP in excess. My point being once you started to make more alts that are fully leveled and want to play them across many aspects of the game (and therefore need build diversity at your disposal), you will find you are going to be in short supply of both SP and Gold. This goes moreso if you want to have that ascended armor for fractals, or even just that small edge in WvW and dungeons. I get that you are not doing many of the things that would amount to SP being spent down, but for others that have, there won’t be a glut of SP to obtain all the traits for that build diversity. The only time that would even come into play as a good thing (an abundance of SP on a level 80) is if you are creating a second alt of the same class and can buy the trait books for them with those SP. At the end of the day it is VASTLY easier to farm gold or TP flip to get gold than it is to get SP, and for most players who play casually to semi casually, both gold and SP will not be something they are flush with. I’m really sorry the system is keeping your alts at level 30. Honestly I am, because it used to be an alt friendly game/set up.

All I was ever addressing however was the fact that while you might have an abundance of SP on one toon, doesn’t mean you will end up with the same abundance on alts especially after trying to gear up and trait up to max more than once under this new system. The post i responded to appeared to represent that SP was just too easy to horde, which isn’t really the case most of the time.

A-Net should revert the Traits back to pre-April patch keeping the respec anywhere out of combat and make Elite skills obtained the same way we did in GW, Signet of Capture. Signets could cost skill points to get just like in GW and the Elite Skills could be on World bosses.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

I hope they don’t update the trait system with HoT but way earlier. I made three new alts after the april patch and I dont really play any of them. Just make the acquistion accountbound for god’s sake so I don’t have to do the same kitten x3.

blakdoxa.7520:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

Originally Signets of Capture worked like Tobias explained, prior to the June 8th, 2005 update, this skill had to be activated at the same time the targeted boss activated the desired skill. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20050608

Galphar.3901:

blakdoxa.7520:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

Originally Signets of Capture worked like Tobias explained, prior to the June 8th, 2005 update, this skill had to be activated at the same time the targeted boss activated the desired skill. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20050608

that’s almost 10 years ago, it’s time you keep up with the times.

sorudo.9054:

Galphar.3901:

blakdoxa.7520:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

Originally Signets of Capture worked like Tobias explained, prior to the June 8th, 2005 update, this skill had to be activated at the same time the targeted boss activated the desired skill. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20050608

that’s almost 10 years ago, it’s time you keep up with the times.

Galphar was explaining something that Tobias posted. It’s time you kept up with the thread.

IndigoSundown.5419:

sorudo.9054:

Galphar.3901:

blakdoxa.7520:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

Originally Signets of Capture worked like Tobias explained, prior to the June 8th, 2005 update, this skill had to be activated at the same time the targeted boss activated the desired skill. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20050608

that’s almost 10 years ago, it’s time you keep up with the times.

Galphar was explaining something that Tobias posted. It’s time you kept up with the thread.

Derailing.

At the end of the day, this was still a method that gave the player far more control over getting the skill or not as compared to what we have today, which is the problem with the traits we have at the moment. There is no real agency here. We are at the mercy of events and whether we’ve farmed enough gold, SP, tomes, etc instead of getting to do level appropriate content and/or having a nominal fee to purchase said traits if hunting them isn’t our cup of tea.

At the end of the day it is simply broken, needs fixing and hopefully will be fix before any of this HoT mess comes down on us. (Pun greatly intended.)

PookieDaWombat.6209:

blakdoxa.7520:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

At the end of the day, this was still a method that gave the player far more control over getting the skill or not as compared to what we have today, which is the problem with the traits we have at the moment. There is no real agency here. We are at the mercy of events and whether we’ve farmed enough gold, SP, tomes, etc instead of getting to do level appropriate content and/or having a nominal fee to purchase said traits if hunting them isn’t our cup of tea.

At the end of the day it is simply broken, needs fixing and hopefully will be fix before any of this HoT mess comes down on us. (Pun greatly intended.)

Another take-away from this story is that even back in the GW1 days ArenaNet lowered the difficulty of skill capture. The above change was one way in which they did so, but they also acknowledged PvPer demand for skills and allowed skills to be unlocked exclusively through PvP. Eventually players were even able to purchase whole skill packs with cash. That’s what makes the current trait system so puzzling. It feels like the game is in the hands of amnesiacs.

I’d also like to point out that I acquired all available skills (for the time) through the old system without a complaint. Even this supposedly difficult system that they deemed to be in need of nerfing was far easier to contend with than what we have now.

IndigoSundown.5419:

sorudo.9054:

Galphar.3901:

blakdoxa.7520:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

Originally Signets of Capture worked like Tobias explained, prior to the June 8th, 2005 update, this skill had to be activated at the same time the targeted boss activated the desired skill. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20050608

that’s almost 10 years ago, it’s time you keep up with the times.

Galphar was explaining something that Tobias posted. It’s time you kept up with the thread.

it still happened 10 years ago, it’s time you get the point.

sorudo.9054:

IndigoSundown.5419:

sorudo.9054:

Galphar.3901:

blakdoxa.7520:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

Originally Signets of Capture worked like Tobias explained, prior to the June 8th, 2005 update, this skill had to be activated at the same time the targeted boss activated the desired skill. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20050608

that’s almost 10 years ago, it’s time you keep up with the times.

Galphar was explaining something that Tobias posted. It’s time you kept up with the thread.

it still happened 10 years ago, it’s time you get the point.

No the point is that before the April Trait patch people were asking for something like the Signet of Capture for Elite Skills in GW. What we got was the Trait revamp. Now IF they had gone the capture signet route then, IMHO, we wouldn’t have this 70+ page thread complaining about the changes to how we get traits.

Galphar.3901:

sorudo.9054:

IndigoSundown.5419:

sorudo.9054:

Galphar.3901:

blakdoxa.7520:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

Originally Signets of Capture worked like Tobias explained, prior to the June 8th, 2005 update, this skill had to be activated at the same time the targeted boss activated the desired skill. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20050608

that’s almost 10 years ago, it’s time you keep up with the times.

Galphar was explaining something that Tobias posted. It’s time you kept up with the thread.

it still happened 10 years ago, it’s time you get the point.

No the point is that before the April Trait patch people were asking for something like the Signet of Capture for Elite Skills in GW. What we got was the Trait revamp. Now IF they had gone the capture signet route then, IMHO, we wouldn’t have this 70+ page thread complaining about the changes to how we get traits.

That might have been interesting. A boss with the trait you need that’s is strong enough to be a challenge but soloable. Defeating him gives you the trait. No need to depend on bugged events and if they respawn at a normal rate, then waiting time is minimal.

Galphar.3901:

sorudo.9054:

IndigoSundown.5419:

sorudo.9054:

Galphar.3901:

blakdoxa.7520:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Worblehat.8697:

So inconsistent…

That’s part of my complaint. The other is: “So how exactly does doing this relate to the Trait Mastery getting unlocked?”

At least with Elite Skills your target would use it. (This was a considerable problem with some of them.) After they changed the capture system, it was not too bad but the initial one was even more BS than Traits are now.

How?

You had to have the Signet of Capture ready, and you needed to hit it while targeting the user, while they were using it. For some of the Elites I just can’t see how that worked at all.

I’m not sure when you stopped playing GW1… But all you had to do was have the Signet of Capture, kill the boss and use the signet on their corpse. A menu would pop up that would allow you to select the skill you want to take, which would usually be an elite skill. It’s way easier to capture skills in GW1 than it is to obtain traits in GW2.

Originally Signets of Capture worked like Tobias explained, prior to the June 8th, 2005 update, this skill had to be activated at the same time the targeted boss activated the desired skill. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20050608

that’s almost 10 years ago, it’s time you keep up with the times.

Galphar was explaining something that Tobias posted. It’s time you kept up with the thread.

it still happened 10 years ago, it’s time you get the point.

No the point is that before the April Trait patch people were asking for something like the Signet of Capture for Elite Skills in GW. What we got was the Trait revamp. Now IF they had gone the capture signet route then, IMHO, we wouldn’t have this 70+ page thread complaining about the changes to how we get traits.

no, we would have a 70+ page complaint on how annoying it is to even get 1 elite skill to begin with, i never wanted the whole capture in GW2 at all and never will.