Guild Wars 2

Goose.8195:

The best feature that could happen since the new traits came out last year would be a revert to the old system while keeping on-the-fly resets and adding in build templates. Even if the previous reset “fee” was built into the UI.

I would value this more than all other content released in that time period, and would immediately begin leveling my alts sitting at level 20 from using an experience scroll.

Just my opinion.

To the Dev’s: This is the best solution I have read since day 1. Love the built in UI fee idea, Brilliant!

I fear a few tweaks on the acquisition parts tho, and that will be it. Sure hope they do the right thing.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

I fear a few tweaks on the acquisition parts tho, and that will be it. Sure hope they do the right thing.

What scares me is that they’ll undo it (badly), but only for new characters. So any characters created in between April and (future patch of maybe) will be stuck in the current system forever.

I’m also speculating because I can’t help myself. Maybe if this current system remains, all traits could be available from multiple sources and the sources would be more consistent (this just bugs me so much, all over the place, and I’m not even going to see them, ever! But I know it’s there. Watching. Waiting.).
The vendor price could be lowered and maybe split into two tabs, one with skill points as currency, other gold.

Options, people. Options.

I will always dislike this “herding” that seems to be going on.

I preferred the old system, although without reset fees and maybe just do away with manuals as well, just hand over the goods when at right level. The old levels.
…Or just hand them over and allow use of them as long as one has the trait points. This is something I don’t know about, or really care if it breaks something, though. I don’t have much interest in combat or class balance details or other things that might be relevant to this.

I am not sure why I care, I still do. No, I have some idea… Traits were the first of extremely bad news for me. I can’t forget. /sigh

IndigoSundown.5419:

@minbariguy

Special thanks for sharing your perspective. You’ve restored some of my lost faith in the Minbari … err, humanity.

LOL. In Valen’s name, I thank you. ;-)

minbariguy.7504:

IndigoSundown.5419:

@minbariguy

Special thanks for sharing your perspective. You’ve restored some of my lost faith in the Minbari … err, humanity.

LOL. In Valen’s name, I thank you. ;-)

Or, as I like to say, “In Jeff's name!” /tangent

Goose.8195:

The best feature that could happen since the new traits came out last year would be a revert to the old system while keeping on-the-fly resets and adding in build templates. Even if the previous reset “fee” was built into the UI.

I would value this more than all other content released in that time period, and would immediately begin leveling my alts sitting at level 20 from using an experience scroll.

Just my opinion.

So much how I feel. I do not trust any other implementation of a change for this; already there have been several changes I dislike though they do not affect anything so central as traits.

Most people I met on returning have no traits. Not 1, Not 2. None. They are definitely seen as expensive options to game play, not anything central to it. It is mostly veterans who started at or near game launch, and still are here, who have the ability to make builds.

I was even told that traits are for “bads” who need a crutch. Sick.

I began occasionally playing again last week, after a long break. I wanted to see how things were.

7 level 80’s made before the trait mess, after which I stopped playing for the most part. Having lost faith in the game’s direction, and loosing all desire to make an alt…and having my friends ( turned off by the new trait system) leave…just dampened my enthusiasm. Seriously dampened my enthusiasm.

Not only did friends I brought to the game vanish, the people I met in game were going away too it seemed, they were never logged in when I was anymore. So, in truth I do not know why they were gone, but nevertheless, it happened roughly simultaneously.

The friends I had brought into the game ( from another game) just before the trait mess, left the game shortly thereafter. I had raved about the freedom this game provided and it was a huge draw for them. Though not thrilled with lack of a trinity, they were having fun. The relative freedom here was very, very appealing to tehm.

They quickly burned out on the new system and just devoted their game time to the other game we play. As did I.

The new system did not make them, nor did it make me, play how the game/devs want. We were offered 2 choices, which was either no fun or not feasible. Play things I/they dislike, or pay staggering skill point costs and lots of gold.

I am here to have fun, and if things are not fun for me…I do not do them. This a game, not life. In life, one is often obligated to do things one dislikes (my life is full this; such is life). I do not come here for more of that.

So, we took the 3rd choice they seem to forget we have. Do not play.

I had lots of fun in this game as it was, and thus check back periodically to see what if anything has been happening with this. After so long, I just have this feeling they will not revert it. Though some sort of change has been announced finally, I still do not have faith in it.

Thank you for coming in to say something, Gaile. Even if others don’t feel that it was enough (I can see both sides of the issue), I certainly appreciate the acknowledgement. I still have so much fun with this game regardless of any shortcomings, and am eager to see what 2015 has in store for us (including the trait system revision, lol).

So now another 8 months until we get something like “nothing is off the table concerning traits and we’re still actively discussing the issue”?

NewTrain.7549:

So now another 8 months until we get something like “nothing is off the table concerning traits and we’re still actively discussing the issue”?

Place your money on PAX, where they’ll probably say something vague again.

It’s bad. It’s just all bad.

I shouldn’t have to travel to multiple zones or sacrifice skill points in order to get new traits. That’s ridiculous. It’s already bad enough that we don’t get a trait point per level after level 11. Now you’re going to FORCE me to complete a renown heart across Tyria just to get a trait? And if I don’t want to do that, then you’re going to make me sacrifice my skill points???

So here I am all the way in eastern Tyria, and in order to get the trait I want, I have to go allllll the way out to western Tyria.

That’s bullkitten.

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Some of the traits require you to even complete an entire zone to get. Unless of course you want to spend skill points and a decent amount of gold for each single trait. To me this feels more like another gold sink cleverly disguised as a “feature”.

It’s utter garbage, yeah, especially since what it replaced want broken in any way, shape or form.

Current system is perfect.

SilverWF.4789:

Current system is perfect.

Perfectly stupefied, sure.

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

saalle.4623:

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

You might feel that way, but clearly, a good many of the rest of us don’t have trouble finding purpose in doing what we please rather than what we’re forced into just to function.

Those of us that dislike being herded into a list of chores don’t share your opinion.

saalle.4623:

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

I can certainly understand and respect your viewpoint. However I feel that extra busy work isn’t a replacement for content. Especially when it can be circumvented for some gold.

I like that they are trying to reward you more for playing the game and exploring, but….well for those of us who have been playing a while it just sort of sucks, plus sometimes you have to do the same things again. For me, leveling once was enough, I don’t like leveling, I like experimenting, making new builds, seeing what I can and can’t do with a class.

naiasonod.9265:

saalle.4623:

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

You might feel that way, but clearly, a good many of the rest of us don’t have trouble finding purpose in doing what we please rather than what we’re forced into just to function.

Those of us that dislike being herded into a list of chores don’t share your opinion.

1:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Definitely a big part of it. This specific complaint from the OP about having to travel to random parts of Tyria just to get a trait is pretty much what people enjoyed about elite/normal skill aquisition in GW1. Again, transposing that system into GW2 was…not well thought out.

And 2:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Game-Updates-Traits/first

Yup, a merge is coming.

Brtiva.9721:

Goose.8195:

The best feature that could happen since the new traits came out last year would be a revert to the old system while keeping on-the-fly resets and adding in build templates. Even if the previous reset “fee” was built into the UI.

I would value this more than all other content released in that time period, and would immediately begin leveling my alts sitting at level 20 from using an experience scroll.

Just my opinion.

So much how I feel. I do not trust any other implementation of a change for this; already there have been several changes I dislike though they do not affect anything so central as traits.

Most people I met on returning have no traits. Not 1, Not 2. None. They are definitely seen as expensive options to game play, not anything central to it. It is mostly veterans who started at or near game launch, and still are here, who have the ability to make builds.

I was even told that traits are for “bads” who need a crutch. Sick.

I began occasionally playing again last week, after a long break. I wanted to see how things were.

7 level 80’s made before the trait mess, after which I stopped playing for the most part. Having lost faith in the game’s direction, and loosing all desire to make an alt…and having my friends ( turned off by the new trait system) leave…just dampened my enthusiasm. Seriously dampened my enthusiasm.

Not only did friends I brought to the game vanish, the people I met in game were going away too it seemed, they were never logged in when I was anymore. So, in truth I do not know why they were gone, but nevertheless, it happened roughly simultaneously.

The friends I had brought into the game ( from another game) just before the trait mess, left the game shortly thereafter. I had raved about the freedom this game provided and it was a huge draw for them. Though not thrilled with lack of a trinity, they were having fun. The relative freedom here was very, very appealing to tehm.

They quickly burned out on the new system and just devoted their game time to the other game we play. As did I.

The new system did not make them, nor did it make me, play how the game/devs want. We were offered 2 choices, which was either no fun or not feasible. Play things I/they dislike, or pay staggering skill point costs and lots of gold.

I am here to have fun, and if things are not fun for me…I do not do them. This a game, not life. In life, one is often obligated to do things one dislikes (my life is full this; such is life). I do not come here for more of that.

So, we took the 3rd choice they seem to forget we have. Do not play.

I had lots of fun in this game as it was, and thus check back periodically to see what if anything has been happening with this. After so long, I just have this feeling they will not revert it. Though some sort of change has been announced finally, I still do not have faith in it.

This is the exact same situation I am experiencing, except I am the new comer who joined before the trait update and was up to level 30 when they introduced the new system.

My friends raved about this game for months to me saying I would not be disappointed, eventually I decided to give GW2 a go and downloaded it in December 2013 and I was not disappointed. I enjoyed every minute of GW2 and loved the reward of leveling to gain an extra trait point, etc, unlike most other games I did not feel any form of ‘grind’ in leveling but all that changed (when the fire nation attacked) after the 2014 April trait update, I have not played once since this update due to the fact that I can not possible enjoy it, only 2 of my many friends slightly play due to them being around since launch and can afford the new grinding system that anet introduced. This game has been ruined for me and many of my friends.

I’ve hung around the forums waiting to see if they fix the system yet to no good news, my last post on this thread was even deleted due to “personal attack on anet staff”. I used no vulgar language and clearly stated my opinion that i was disappointed in their decision along with a majority of other players and they had not yet to approach us formally. I still stand by this and think it’s ridiculous that this statement is somehow classified as a personal attack on staff members, when the staff clearly aren’t even reading our issues and addressing us.

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Trying is the operative word. The GW system was capturing elite skills from the corpses of bosses who had and used the skill.

• Being completely instanced, most of the GW bosses were on demand. GW2 trait capture is often not on demand.
• Elite skills were not level-gated the way traits are. Acquiring them was generally a max level pursuit, not a leveling pursuit.
• All elite skills could be capped with just Heroes or Henchmen. Some GW2 traits require a group.
• Skill capping is a system that was implemented alongside the elite skills in the first place. Trait capping is a revision of an earlier system, utilizing existing content.
• One can only enter a GW instance with one Elite Skill. In Gw2, one can have up to 7 traits equipped. Thus, in order to fully flesh out a build, one has to cap 7 v. capping 1.

The only real similarity is that players do stuff to get something pertinent to their build. Beyond that, the two systems are very dissimilar.

This new trait system is 9 months old.

saalle.4623:

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

Huh, it’s strange that when traits were accessible, I was often spending a great deal more of my time having fun in-game. There are other ways to implement goal-oriented content in the game without taking away things that were previously (relatively) freely given.

I’m not a fan of this design philosophy that seems very pervasive right now; to restrict and time-gate old systems in order to make them seem more rewarding.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Trying is the operative word. The GW system was capturing elite skills from the corpses of bosses who had and used the skill.

• Being completely instanced, most of the GW bosses were on demand. GW2 trait capture is often not on demand.
• Elite skills were not level-gated the way traits are. Acquiring them was generally a max level pursuit, not a leveling pursuit.
• All elite skills could be capped with just Heroes or Henchmen. Some GW2 traits require a group.
• Skill capping is a system that was implemented alongside the elite skills in the first place. Trait capping is a revision of an earlier system, utilizing existing content.
• One can only enter a GW instance with one Elite Skill. In Gw2, one can have up to 7 traits equipped. Thus, in order to fully flesh out a build, one has to cap 7 v. capping 1.

The only real similarity is that players do stuff to get something pertinent to their build. Beyond that, the two systems are very dissimilar.

First off, read my entire post. This means every word.

In Guild Wars, you obtained skills in three ways:

• By quest
• By vendor
• By skill capture

In Guild Wars 2, you obtain traits:

• By quest/task (you don’t get them from NPC’s)
• By vendor

The methods of acquisition are very similar. I’ll clarify one thing though. Similar does not mean the same. The two games are vastly different from each other so you’re not going to have the exact same system where the methods are exactly the same.

EDIT: Fixed it where I put skils instead of traits for the GW2 section

I like the current system, but think that it should be account wide unlock rather than character unlock. Having characters gain abilities by completing task or quests is a staple of the RPG genre, and is one of the reasons I like playing RPGs.

I, for one, don’t care what they were speculatively trying to do. What they did was make a tedious mess out f something that was neither tedious nor a mess before they ‘fixed™’ it.

What they were attempting is tacitly irrelevant. What they actually did is what matters.

And I, for one, would hang my head in shame to have made this. It’s shameful, not a thing less.

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Trying is the operative word. The GW system was capturing elite skills from the corpses of bosses who had and used the skill.

• Being completely instanced, most of the GW bosses were on demand. GW2 trait capture is often not on demand.
• Elite skills were not level-gated the way traits are. Acquiring them was generally a max level pursuit, not a leveling pursuit.
• All elite skills could be capped with just Heroes or Henchmen. Some GW2 traits require a group.
• Skill capping is a system that was implemented alongside the elite skills in the first place. Trait capping is a revision of an earlier system, utilizing existing content.
• One can only enter a GW instance with one Elite Skill. In Gw2, one can have up to 7 traits equipped. Thus, in order to fully flesh out a build, one has to cap 7 v. capping 1.

The only real similarity is that players do stuff to get something pertinent to their build. Beyond that, the two systems are very dissimilar.

First off, read my entire post. This means every word.

In Guild Wars, you obtained skills in three ways:

• By quest
• By vendor
• By skill capture

In Guild Wars 2, you obtain skills:

• By quest/task (you don’t get them from NPC’s)
• By vendor

The methods of acquisition are very similar. I’ll clarify one thing though. Similar does not mean the same. The two games are vastly different from each other so you’re not going to have the exact same system where the methods are exactly the same.

Read my words. The words are important.
In GW2, you obtain skills one way:

• With skill points

In GW2, you obtain traits:

• With skill points and coin currency
• Individual tasks for each of the 65 traits, which are the same across all professions

I stated that the system was similar. Nowhere did I state that traits and skills were the same. How about instead of trying to nitpick minute differences between the two, you read by post?

Uh, because your post explicitly states that you obtain skills by task or a vendor, and that is blatantly false, not nitpicking. Could you actually read your posts before you announce others are having reading comprehension fails?

Well that was an error on my part. The GW2 portion was supposed to be traits as that’s what this thread was about. I’ll fix it. Please read it again and let me know if what I was saying isn’t clear.

I’ve deleted my posts referencing the error. Thanks for the fix.

I guess I’m not sure what you’re debating about with Indigo specifically, because the overall sense I’m getting from you both is that the attempt at a similar system is clearly lacking in some pretty crucial ways.

saalle.4623:

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

Like making a legendary item that requires 200 skill point is already not enough?

As well as making a full ascended set which requires 120 skill point.

The more crap you make the players do, guess what, the more boring the player gets…

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

Guhracie.3419:

Ayrilana.1396:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Trying is the operative word. The GW system was capturing elite skills from the corpses of bosses who had and used the skill.

• Being completely instanced, most of the GW bosses were on demand. GW2 trait capture is often not on demand.
• Elite skills were not level-gated the way traits are. Acquiring them was generally a max level pursuit, not a leveling pursuit.
• All elite skills could be capped with just Heroes or Henchmen. Some GW2 traits require a group.
• Skill capping is a system that was implemented alongside the elite skills in the first place. Trait capping is a revision of an earlier system, utilizing existing content.
• One can only enter a GW instance with one Elite Skill. In Gw2, one can have up to 7 traits equipped. Thus, in order to fully flesh out a build, one has to cap 7 v. capping 1.

The only real similarity is that players do stuff to get something pertinent to their build. Beyond that, the two systems are very dissimilar.

First off, read my entire post. This means every word.

In Guild Wars, you obtained skills in three ways:

• By quest
• By vendor
• By skill capture

In Guild Wars 2, you obtain skills:

• By quest/task (you don’t get them from NPC’s)
• By vendor

The methods of acquisition are very similar. I’ll clarify one thing though. Similar does not mean the same. The two games are vastly different from each other so you’re not going to have the exact same system where the methods are exactly the same.

Read my words. The words are important.
In GW2, you obtain skills one way:

• With skill points

In GW2, you obtain traits:

• With skill points and coin currency
• Individual tasks for each of the 65 traits, which are the same across all professions

I stated that the system was similar. Nowhere did I state that traits and skills were the same. How about instead of trying to nitpick minute differences between the two, you read by post?

Uh, because your post explicitly states that you obtain skills by task or a vendor, and that is blatantly false, not nitpicking. Could you actually read your posts before you announce others are having reading comprehension fails?

Well that was an error on my part. The GW2 portion was supposed to be traits as that’s what this thread was about. I’ll fix it. Please read it again and let me know if what I was saying isn’t clear.

I’ve deleted my posts referencing the error. Thanks for the fix.

I guess I’m not sure what you’re debating about with Indigo specifically, because the overall sense I’m getting from you both is that the attempt at a similar system is clearly lacking in some pretty crucial ways.

I went a head and deleted my posts as well. Sorry about the confusion and thank you for point out the error.

I was defending my post about the acquisition methods between skills in GW1 and traits in GW2 were very similar. His post did have some differences between the two games although they really had nothing to do with what I was arguing. I could have responded to each of his points but I didn’t really want to get into a large discussion as my first post in the thread was just a statement regarding my observations.

Buying skills in GW1 and traits in GW2 from a vendor both require skill points and gold/platinum. Both games had quests which had you do various things where upon completion you would be rewarded with a skill/trait. The ones for GW2 were less formal as you simply do them rather than visit an NPC. GW1 had an additional method of acquisition where you got a signet and then used it to grab skills which GW2 doesn’t have for traits.

I’ll concede the point about vendor or task. I find those similarities to be superficial and thus had not considered them. Quests to gain normal skills were Prophecies only, iirc. In the later campaigns, normal skills were vendor or capture only. In all the years I played, though, I never ran into anyone who used a Signet of Capture on a non-elite skill, even though you could do so.

I also believe that the points I listed need to be looked at in any comparison between acquisition of Elite Skills v. acquisition of Traits. They are, imo, some of the reasons why the GW system is fun and the GW2 system is not (also imo).

Anywho, see you when this is merged (or not).

Anybody with a character prior to the system change has nothing to worry about, except for getting that last t3 trait, which isn’t a big deal since most are useless for most classes anyway.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’ll concede the point about vendor or task. I find those similarities to be superficial and thus had not considered them. Quests to gain normal skills were Prophecies only, iirc. In the later campaigns, normal skills were vendor or capture only. In all the years I played, though, I never ran into anyone who used a Signet of Capture on a non-elite skill, even though you could do so.

I also believe that the points I listed need to be looked at in any comparison between acquisition of Elite Skills v. acquisition of Traits. They are, imo, some of the reasons why the GW system as fun and the GW2 system is not (also imo).

Anywho, see you when this is merged (or not).

Factions, Nightfall, and EotM had those title skills that you obtained from completing quests or purchasing with points. That’s assuming you consider them normal skills and not a separate category of their own. I don’t really think anyone would use a signet on normal skills as that would just be wasting their time but then you never know…

all of u complain about traveling and spending time to get trait points , thats funny coz atleast those activities give u something to do ! :P

Ayrilana.1396:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Trying is the operative word. The GW system was capturing elite skills from the corpses of bosses who had and used the skill.

• Being completely instanced, most of the GW bosses were on demand. GW2 trait capture is often not on demand.
• Elite skills were not level-gated the way traits are. Acquiring them was generally a max level pursuit, not a leveling pursuit.
• All elite skills could be capped with just Heroes or Henchmen. Some GW2 traits require a group.
• Skill capping is a system that was implemented alongside the elite skills in the first place. Trait capping is a revision of an earlier system, utilizing existing content.
• One can only enter a GW instance with one Elite Skill. In Gw2, one can have up to 7 traits equipped. Thus, in order to fully flesh out a build, one has to cap 7 v. capping 1.

The only real similarity is that players do stuff to get something pertinent to their build. Beyond that, the two systems are very dissimilar.

First off, read my entire post. This means every word.

In Guild Wars, you obtained skills in three ways:

• By quest
• By vendor
• By skill capture

Would you consider unlocking via a combination of Balth faction and Tome to be a fourth option?

I didn’t include skill tomes as they only give you skills that are unlocked on your account. I consider skills bought with balth faction under those bought from a vendor. The only difference being what you used as a currency.

New system isn’t very ‘alt friendly.’ I’ve had 4 characters since head start, and had no idea how awful this system has become. I just made a new character and found out the hard way..

Greyrebel.7492:

all of u complain about traveling and spending time to get trait points , thats funny coz atleast those activities give u something to do ! :P

But I’m very good at finding things to do all on my own, and I have a staunch tendency to resent anyone else thinking they know better than me what I should be doing in my pretendy-funtime game.

If what they’ve done to traits is supposed to be interpreted as ‘giving me something to do’, then I should like to ram a live lobster down their throats and claim that its to give them something to eat. Then, we could all be ridiculous and absurd and the world would be right as tulips.

LordEnki.9283:

saalle.4623:

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

I can certainly understand and respect your viewpoint. However I feel that extra busy work isn’t a replacement for content. Especially when it can be circumvented for some gold.

There is no MMORPG with enough content. It is all about what the MMO forces you to do.

nGumball.1283:

LordEnki.9283:

saalle.4623:

I like new trait system.In fact they should force us to do some other things as well.If we have everything we want under our reach,then we have nothing to do,no reason to play this game at all.

I can certainly understand and respect your viewpoint. However I feel that extra busy work isn’t a replacement for content. Especially when it can be circumvented for some gold.

There is no MMORPG with enough content. It is all about what the MMO forces you to do.

Unless one has the wit and cleverness to find ways to entertain themselves, you might be right. Sluggards that maunder about waiting to be rolled up and down the countryside with arrows pointing them to everything even remotely relevant might be very fond of gaming in a perpetual hallway, but some of us; I most relevantly to this writing; am absolutely not.

I do not want to play paint-by-numbers. I do not expect GW2 to be some sort of sandbox game – it clearly isn’t that and was not designed to be, and that’s fine.

However, neither is there anything remotely imperative to the obvious requirements of its design that we be shoehorned into essentially line dancing like a bunch of Alzheimer’s patients during music hour in the day room!

I do not require my game to FORCE ME TO DO ANYTHING

I can see to a great deal of my own amusement, thank you very much, and I will prefer to do so until the end of time. I assure you, I’m infinitely better at figuring out what I want to do with my time, and substantially more qualified at it to boot, than anyone that is working at, or shall ever work at, Anet.

And that, sir, is that.

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

Maybe they should have played GW first then?

naiasonod.9265:

But I’m very good at finding things to do all on my own, and I have a staunch tendency to resent anyone else thinking they know better than me what I should be doing in my pretendy-funtime game.

Preach it Brother!

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

In GW1, you just clicked a little arrow to put another point into a trait.

It’s Elite skill hunting that this is based off, and it makes no sense to do traits this way.

narwhalsbend.7059:

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

In GW1, you just clicked a little arrow to put another point into a trait.

It’s Elite skill hunting that this is based off, and it makes no sense to do traits this way.

In GW1 you went around to collect skills. It is the same concept of ‘’exploration for the sake of build progression’’.

Traits are not skills. Stop comparing them.

“Traits” in GW1 was putting more points into Death Magic because I wanted better minions, more points into Fast Casting because I wanted to interrupt easier, etc. In GW2, the traits juts have side effects in addition to the increased attributes.

It is the same concept regardless.
Create a new character and you will have to re-collect the skills.

nGumball.1283:

narwhalsbend.7059:

Ayrilana.1396:

It seems they were trying to base the trait system off a similar one in Guild Wars.

In GW1, you just clicked a little arrow to put another point into a trait.

It’s Elite skill hunting that this is based off, and it makes no sense to do traits this way.

In GW1 you went around to collect skills. It is the same concept of ‘’exploration for the sake of build progression’’.

In GW1 you learned skills from a boss that already knew it. How does getting the allegiance of a group of hylek in the mists allow my pet to have constant regeneration? It just doesn’t make sense. Why do I have to go into the mists to learn something anyway?

nGumball.1283:

It is the same concept regardless.
Create a new character and you will have to re-collect the skills.

Concept and implementation of concept are two very different things.

Anet has created an environment in which the players decide prior to trait hunting what their build will be. Minimizing the amount of hunting needed. Sure there will be incidental traits gained during the leveling process, but it’s not the kind of amount that will encourage build experimentation.
In fact I would argue experimentation rarely occurs unless one has a grand-fathered character. I have seen many instances where there are multiple trait builds needed for different parts of the game and even different dungeons.
The old argument for gear is beginning to apply to traits. “There’s no content in the game challenging enough to require traits, they’re not a need but a want”
I really don’t think that’s what Anet was aiming for but that is what this ‘thing’ is evolving into.
Secretly I can’t wait for a new class to be introduced or the next big balance patch. All the tears to come that many of us have already shed. I guess that makes me a bit jaded. I can only hope that the devs in charge of this system have actually tested the system to its fullest before they implement a new change.

EDIT: I forgot to add that what I’ve said here has been said before by others. I keep up with the mega-thread I’ve just forgotten the user names to credit. See you guys in the merge.

Gregori.5807:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey there,

Colin Johanson and I had a chat about this thread today. He actually brought it up because he wanted to make sure that forum members know that the dev team is very aware of the concerns that our players feel about traits, and also to let you know that the devs read and refer to this subject (and particularly this thread) quite frequently. We’ve said it before, but it remains true: Your voices are being heard and your input is valued.

We wish there was more to say today, but please take heart that this subject is part of current development team discussions and we’ll let you know more as soon as we reasonably can do so.

Uh huh. I have no reason to believe the bolded part. The time for nebulous promises like these to smooth things over has long passed.

You have a bad job… I do not envy you. You are the one stuck coming into this thread to give the bad news, or no news, which is the same as bad news. I am another one who gave up hope a long time ago.

I wonder what prompted the devs to ask you to come in today. Usually its something specific like when the commander tags were fixed or the gem store was fixed. Or a big release.

It could be that there have been a number of trait threads starting outside of this one recently.

It is always something.

Been playing the game for a long time, and I enjoy it. I really do.

But I agree. I have absolutely no trust in Anet or value their word in the slightest. They have never given me any reason to believe they “listen”.

MAGpie.7962:

Gregori.5807:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey there,

Colin Johanson and I had a chat about this thread today. He actually brought it up because he wanted to make sure that forum members know that the dev team is very aware of the concerns that our players feel about traits, and also to let you know that the devs read and refer to this subject (and particularly this thread) quite frequently. We’ve said it before, but it remains true: Your voices are being heard and your input is valued.

We wish there was more to say today, but please take heart that this subject is part of current development team discussions and we’ll let you know more as soon as we reasonably can do so.

Uh huh. I have no reason to believe the bolded part. The time for nebulous promises like these to smooth things over has long passed.

You have a bad job… I do not envy you. You are the one stuck coming into this thread to give the bad news, or no news, which is the same as bad news. I am another one who gave up hope a long time ago.

I wonder what prompted the devs to ask you to come in today. Usually its something specific like when the commander tags were fixed or the gem store was fixed. Or a big release.

It could be that there have been a number of trait threads starting outside of this one recently.

It is always something.

Been playing the game for a long time, and I enjoy it. I really do.

But I agree. I have absolutely no trust in Anet or value their word in the slightest. They have never given me any reason to believe they “listen”.

I never understood the point of view that because something doesn’t turn out the way they expect, it means they weren’t heard or understood. It is not an individual idea that often shapes an outcome like the trait system changes but a myriad of them. I bet all those people asking for mounts and the holy trinity back feel like anet doesn’t listen either. Keep the perspective people.