Guild Wars 2

Obsidian.1328:

It’s fairly obvious this new system was implemented to feed the new Asian demographic. It’s no secret that demographic prefers grinding(work+time) for their skills/traits/etc in MMO’s. Simple marketing tool is all.

If this system is popular in Asia, then hopefully they can just leave it the way it is in Asia. It isn’t something that requires huge resources to run or make (they already had a perfectly good system before the change) and the two regions are separate.

In the meantime, I’m disappointed that they’ve continued to ignore this thread for so long.

Further elaborating on the consequences of this bad system:

1. Lower level zones will be MORE empty in the long run because slowly more and more players are refusing to create any more toons. Instead of playing from the ground up again they spend 100% of their time in end game content.

2. This is costing Anet real money sales. For example, my friends and I were willing to spend money on more character slots for the summer but are no longer going to because of how tedious it is to actually experience new classes.

3. Anet is losing a very important gold sink which stabilizes the in game economy. They should have remembered that a gold sink’s effectiveness is multiplied my the number of characters a player owns..

For example, if I love being commander and want to buy it for all future characters, that would have been 800gold taken out of circulation…but since I’m no longer going to make that many characters, that gold is going to accumulate and contribute to inflation.

So let’s try to determine the consequences of changing trait requirements:

1. If you remove the SP cost but raise the gold prices, gold sellers become even more valueable and sought after by players. Players continue on their mains farming world bosses instead of contributing to the actually open world experience.
2. If you remove the gold cost but raise the SP cost (which is already stupid high), it will only prolong the amount of time players are spending farming SP scrolls in eotm/wvw.
3. If you remove the gold and SP cost all together but make the open world requirements any harder, don’t ever expect to see those players again.

Unlocking traits needs to be as quick and unobtrusive as possible, because it is100% COMPLETION of all these that get players back into PvE the fastest, NOT the fact you are forcing us to be present there.

I really dislike the idea of “strong-arming” players to do certain content: pay gold or do this particular thing to get this trait. Since ANet decided on a level based progression; they should have had the decency to keep character levels as the throttle for Trait Unlocks. Now we have a bizarre vertical progression PLUS a content locked system in place.

Horizontal progression is getting pruned, big time.

I really dislike being “herded” into underplayed game areas by the same devs who actively embrace vertical progression as a primary/dominant game system. It is that progression model which devaluates content far more than player choice. ( Frankly, I despised GW2 Dungeons, maybe they have been improved in the 7 months I’ve been away. )

Fingers crossed that there’ll be a trait system overhaul either this week or with the July 1 LS update. Ignoring this won’t make it go away, ANET.

Guhracie.3419:

Fingers crossed that there’ll be a trait system overhaul either this week or with the July 1 LS update. Ignoring this won’t make it go away, ANET.

^ Agreed. The July 1st update containing changes to the trait unlock system will determine whether me and my friends bother playing his game this summer, or just move on to one of the dozen other games weve bought this summer Steam sale.

you know what would at least help?
up-scaling players so they can do higher level maps. The upscaling will also give people a reason to change their gear frequently.

When leveling I used to change my gear like every15-20levels..and really only if something dropped that I could use.
This would give more of a use to low level gear.(since upscaling requires you to have the top gear for your level to upscale decently. )

I don’t even know where to start with this…

I was okay with the conversion from the large scale point distribution conversion to the smaller scale version over all. I mean, does anybody honestly need those in-between 11-14 points in any given trait line? I was even okay with the new yellow rare traits having to be unlocked via bosses and specific ingame events/actions. As this to me is reminiscent of elite skill unlocks in GW1 where you had to track down and capture elites via specific bosses ingame. Not entirely certain if that’s how it was intended, but that’s how I felt. Which I honestly thought was a nice nod to the original game.

But the basic blue and green traits too?… Really?

I finally got my brand new elementalist to level 80. Having built her specifically for WvW, only to find that I now need to unlock EVERY SINGLE trait on her to even create a build. Thats’ thirteen traits, elementalist having one set of such for each of the five elements that he/she can wield. That’s SIXTY-FIVE traits in total that I need to unlock before she’s fully complete! Are you even serious with this? I want to physically cry every time I look at my trait screen now. Full of empty trait slots, that as far as I care at this point, may never be filled. I made her for WvW, and I’m not going to be force-fed PvE and travel the expanses all over Tyria fulfilling all of the requirements (some of which amount to full region map completion) to unlock each skill. That’s insane, this to me is way over the line into being completely asinine.

#GrindWars2

Today I decided to start playing again more actively. I created a new character, used scroll to level 20 and started playing. During first 15 minutes I opened trait panel like 3 times to plan my traits and see where to put my next points only to remember that nothing is available until level 30. Then I remembered that even at level 50 I probably won’t have any meaningful traits available.

Today I decided to stop playing this game actively.

I started playing GW2 back in february and I had to stop because of schoolwork, now the semester is over and I decided to give it a try and catch up to my friends, who changed server, I thought since only have 1 lvl 80 character its not worth paying 1600 gems to swap servers and leveling another to 80 isn’t that much of a big deal, so I deleted my characters and changed servers. then I discovered that I had to have 100% completion on Harathi Hinterlands (boring as duck) to have a really useful trait.

Anet had stuff to fix, like weapon-skill system, but trait system wasnt one, it was actually good and didnt force you to do anything you didn’t want to do. If Anet insists on making me play like they want me to play then I guess im back to SMITE and D3.

Please Anet, accept that it was a mistake and lets get back to how it was before, then we can all look back and laugh.

Wethospu.6437:

Today I decided to start playing again more actively. I created a new character, used scroll to level 20 and started playing. During first 15 minutes I opened trait panel like 3 times to plan my traits and see where to put my next points only to remember that nothing is available until level 30. Then I remembered that even at level 50 I probably won’t have any meaningful traits available.

Today I decided to stop playing this game actively.

Today marked day 2 since I dusted off my copy of Skyrim for PC. Lots of great mods have come out since I left it last.

So, update on my “lowbie” Guardian:

She is now level 69 (about to hit 70). She just recaptured Claw Island and has even opened a few maps that I avoided like the plague. On one of them I was reminded how much I really hated that map. All in all I have all of the adept level MINORs selected and some random Majors selected because that’s what I happened to unlock just by playing through the game up until this point. Fairly certain I’ve not unlocked any of the Master or Grandmaster traits yet.

Let me restate the above with the most pertinent info: I am almost level 70 (10 from max) and I have a small handful of ADEPT traits open that are completely meaningless to the toon’s playstyle.

I will keep pushing her to 80 and then see what else I can unlock through normal play. I will make a list. I will share said list, along with the list of traits I could/would conceivably hunt down.

I will then make and share the list of traits I will not bother to hunt down and tally the cost of those skills.

something tells me that number will be unpleasant.

I have to reiterate that having to do this even once is …not fun. Having to do it on every alt is more than tedious. My son recently tried to get back into GW2 and left again rather quickly BECAUSE OF THE KITTEN NEW TRAIT SYSTEM.

Wake up ANet and fix this mess. It is seriously unbelievable how this company ignores its players….you know…the people who generate revenues for shareholders.

I have levelled1 guardian to level 80 under the new system. I groaned but had to concede that I did some events in the process I never knew about, like the Ignatius guy in South Lornar’s Pass. I am now levelling my 2nd character under the new system, a warrior. She is
at level 72 now. She has miserably few traits and she will only be good to be parked near a jumping puzzle chest. It will be my last alt, and that is a pity because levelling alts was one of my favourite pastimes (I have 13 level 80 characters under the old system). The change
of the trait system killed an important part of my fun with GW2.

My proposal for a change:

• Adept traits should be free.

• Unlocks should be account bound (when you unlock a trait, say 3 IX, all characters on your account have and will have this trait unlocked).

• First trait point in level 15, then 1 every 5 levels. Unlock Master and Grandmaster trait as before the change.

That way you will unlock traits with a much fitter character, because of the free adept traits. And you do it only once, and if you are a new player the magic of discovery outweighs the artificial nature of the tasks you need to do to unlock (there is no connection between the trait you unlock and the task). Levelling alts remains an interesting pastime.

I am curious was the design intent of this to have you level to 80 with no traits, because that is what you have done. It is the worst design in the game to date by far!

I am currently leveling a new character and already had the intent for map completion, but I am currently level 40 with no traits. I can’t open any traits at that level because I don’t have the area or the levels to complete even the level 20 trait unlocks. I HATE this system. I will not be purchasing any character slots in the future. I do not understand why anyone thought that leveling a character with no traits available to the player would be a good idea. Did you even try leveling a new character before you implemented this change?

I am fine with adding new traits to earn at 80, but what was the thinking behind making leveling a horrible experience? It will hurt Anet financially I think. You have people that will no longer create alts- that would have been character slots, bag slots, ect. Glad I have so many characters grandfathered in, but if I picked this game up today I doubt I would continue to play it. I have never seen a game want to handicap a player as they level.

The pros of the new system:

- Being able to refund traits outside of combat anywhere is a great improvement over having to run/waypoint back to the trainer every time you changed weapon/armor sets to make sure your build was all in order.

- Simplifying/condensing the points to 1 for every 5 previously is also easier on the eyes and simpler to understand compared to the 5 points per trait from before.

The cons of the new system:

- The level requirements being bumped up feels unnecessary and makes leveling less fun. Originally, adept traits could be unlocked at Lv11 (though you couldn’t use them until Lv15, when you got enough for a minor trait), master traits were unlocked at Lv40, and grandmaster traits at Lv60. Now you can’t even see the trait panel until Lv30. Master traits are now locked until Lv60, and grandmaster traits until Lv80, thus making leveling feel like a tedious rush to 80 to finally max out your potential.

In addition to that, you get a trait point only every six levels, until Lv66, when you get 2 every six levels after. This just feels awkward to me. It would’ve been better if they put the unlock level for traits at Lv15, then give you a trait point every 5 levels, keeping similar enough to the old system while still changing it slightly for the better.

Also, putting the level requirements back as they were (Adept at Lv15, Master at Lv40, Grandmaster at Lv60) would be better in my opinion. Having the traits be blocked until those higher levels just keeps newer players from learning about them that well and limits characters constantly until they’re at 80 (which is quite annoying for those making alts, by the way).

The other con of this system:

- The trait unlock requirements. Unlike before, were you could just buy the trait manuals for the tiers and you were set to go, you now either have to do certain tasks in certain parts of the world, or spend silver/gold and skill points to buy individual trait manuals for them.

On paper, the searching around the map for the trait unlocks was a good idea. However, it was badly done, with most of the unlock requirements ranging from tedious to ridiculous. the individual trait manuals are also a huge gold sink compared to the trait manuals in the previous system (43 gold for all the traits for a character, compared to 3 gold and 11 silver for the tier manuals previously), as well as taking skill points (586 if you intend to buy all the traits, along with all the skills/utilities), meaning you have to be picky and know ahead of time what particular skills/utilities/traits you want ahead of time, discouraging experimentation for newer players.

While I don’t completely disagree with the trait unlock system, it needs do be better done than it has been for me to see it in a positive light.

My ranger is level 80 and I’ve now gotten four traits unlocked. I’ll be waiting to see what Anet does with traits in the next two weeks. Otherwise, I’m going to be spending a lot of time in a little game called Craft the World.

I already pointed out what I considered the good and bad in the new system, but didn’t elaborate on why I considered the trait unlocks poorly executed (because the post would’ve gotten too big). Well, using the Warrior traits as examples, I’ll explain why now. The trait requirements are mostly (if not all) the same across all professions, though they might be mixed in between different trait lines.

Strength Adept Traits

Powerful Banners (Banners do damage when summoned)

- Kill Kol Skullsmasher. I never encountered this one, so I had to look him up. He’s a champion giant in a Lv42 group event in Harathi Hinterlands where you help some Shining Blade member kill him.

Now…my opinion on putting trait unlocks behind champions is this: If they’re soloable with a reasonable amount of skill at the time that you could get the trait, then they’re good. If they’re frustrating/tedious due to annoying gimmicks or just too much HP, then they’re not okay.

While I’ve never fought this guy, and thus can’t judge if he’s a reasonable challenge or not, the fact that you’re required to be level 42 to even stand a chance at facing him for a level 36 trait is already a bad sign to me. And considering adept trait guides cost only 2 skill points and 10 silver apiece from the trainer, that would be much faster and more efficient than hunting this guy down.

Dual Wielding (More damage when wielding an off hand sword/axe/mace)

- Earn 100% map completion for Blazeridge Steppes.

For me, map completion is something I do for two particular reasons: First, I like seeing the map filled in, and secondly, for the transmutation charges, potential Black Lion keys, gear/materials. Adding a trait unlock behind it does not motivate me anymore to fill a map than I already would’ve been before. And, in the process of doing so, I’d gain skill points through leveling and the skill challenges, so buying a trait is much faster than trying to complete a map if I really want that trait. And while map completion is something I like to do from time to time, it gets tedious if you stick to it too long without doing something else, and thus using map completion for trait unlocks is not preferred by me.

Even notwithstanding that bias, the requirement is to complete a Lv40-50 map for a Lv36 trait. Not really worth it to do all that.

Short Temper (Gain might and adrenaline when blocked)

- Defeat Rhendak the Crazed. Once again, I had to look this one up. He’s a champion Flame Legionnaire within a mini-dungeon near the Font of Rhand Waypoint (which requires completion of a meta event chain elsewhere to gain access). I got lost in the mini-dungeon, and thus never got to him. From what I’ve read though, he’s scaled at Lv28 while you’re stuck at Lv26, and can kill players in a matter of hits. While I can’t say if he’s really that tough, having to go through the entire mini-dungeon again if you lose to him doesn’t seem fun at all.

On the upside, this is one of the few trait unlocks that’s doable before the unlock level for the trait. Still, just buying this one is probably less of a hassle.

Great Fortitude (7% of Power is added to Vitality)

- 100% map completion for Gendarran Fields. This one’s…meh. It is level appropriate at least (Lv25-35, meaning you’ll probably be at Lv36+ by the time you fill it), but once again, in the process of doing so you’ll get more than enough to just buy the trait instead. I guess it depends on how quickly you want the trait, but I still feel map completion is a bad unlock requirement.

Restorative Strength (Using a heal skill removes conditions)

- Capture Inferno’s Needle in Edge of the Mists. This requirement’s bad for 2 major reasons: First, Edge of the Mists is a Lv80 area (while you get upscaled to Lv80, you won’t stand a chance against an actual Lv80). In addition to this, Inferno’s Needle is a special objective requiring siege and numbers to break through the gates and to defeat the champions within (which are stronger than regular champions and sometimes have gimmicks to them to make them more problematic).

So, this is not level appropriate, nor is it soloable. Bad requirement for a Lv36 trait. Buying this is pretty much a must unless you enjoy waiting for a zerg on your side to go there.

Death from Above (Take less damage from falling, cause a shockwave whenever you take falling damage)

- Complete the Obsidian Sanctum jumping puzzle.

While I don’t mind jumping puzzles as unlock requirements…much, I’m inclined to disagree with this one. It’s in WvW again (meaning Lv80s), and this jumping puzzle is particularly long and annoying, with one or two spots where jerks can keep you stuck/kill you if they feel so inclined. Luckily, not many stick around in there from what I’ve seen, but there’s always the possibility for it, which is bad for those just looking to get through the puzzle.

This one’s still doable, but buying it is the safe and sure option.

Hello ANET/NCSOFT… losing old players and losing new players.. whats that tell ya… FIX THE TRAIT SYSTEM BACK! Simple, admit it was a bad mistake, and fix it! 1 new toon… lvl 80 less then half the traits…

Not to mention that the inflated price to BUY the traits is ridiculous, using SP you will need while lvling up and money new players do NOT have ..

This new trait system I feel will alienate new players who want to try builds out and force them into builds off sites rather than “play thier way” due to how you unlock them

while this system affects everyone, it affects new players the most and i see quite a few players not feeling welcome because of it. i see a lot of people defend it with “but you can buy the traits easily” but where in the world is a new player going to get the gold and skill points to do that? you would have to get lucky with drops, or buy gems and convert them. both of which are just a bad option. and the skill points? well you’d just have to farm them in an extremely boring fashion.

and ignoring the traits and just rushing to level 80 would just be painful, especially once you start working on the dungeon ones – you would constantly be aware of the fact that you’re functioning at a subpar level because you’re lacking some traits that you simply can’t afford to get.

the cost to unlock these traits should be about the same it was to buy the adept, master and grandmaster trait books before, with added costs for the new added traits that weren’t in the game before. if the cost has to increase because of the lack of a cost to reset traits, then increase it but not to such an extent as it is now. the skill point cost should especially be reduced or removed from all but the new traits.

as for the real unlocking system, it is an idea that might work if the unlocks were different by profession and were actually fun to do – but right now they’re mostly chores that force you to either do content that you don’t like or pay a fee that is extremely high compared to what it used to be.

Kohlteth.3715:

Not to mention that the inflated price to BUY the traits is ridiculous, using SP you will need while lvling up and money new players do NOT have ..

This new trait system I feel will alienate new players who want to try builds out and force them into builds off sites rather than “play thier way” due to how you unlock them

I’m too am wondering how they ever thought this was gonna fly with players not yet into the game? People who are guildless, just learning how to play, and now they don’t even get to experiment with the trait system at all until after level 30? I can tell you how that went with my brother, whom I bought this game for. He played it for all of three weeks before dropping it like a hot rock and going back to Dota. Claimed it was too grindy, too boring/slow at low levels, lacked any feeling of character progression at low levels, etc. All the same stuff we’re telling Anet now. I haven’t even told him about this new development… I’m hoping after Anet fixes this costly mistake (and it IS a mistake) I can talk him into coming back, just so the money I spent buying the game for him isn’t a total loss.

As for me, I logged in for the first time today after a three day absence, just to chat mostly. I still will NOT be actively doing anything at all to start unlocking my 65 traits. I refuse to even take part in these shenanigans. If the new ele I made after the patch becomes a mule, so be it.

I reeeeally don’t get what all the complaining about, is it just change? I think it’s just change.

I don’t understand why it would be unwelcoming to new players, new players being players who did not know what it was like before and therefore have no basis for comparison.

Skill points are not that hard to come by, sure they’re a little troublesome on the road to and around 30 (because of elites and assuming no skill books) but once you hit 80 you get well more than you’ll ever need.

There are a lot of traits to buy! I probably would never consider using half of the traits on any of my toons, if I don’t have traits unlocked that I will never use then I’ll find it simpler when trying to change traits when in a hurry, less misclicking or confusing numerals from other lines, not a big thing by any means but still sort of handy.

Hmm maybe it’s just people who haven’t played GW1 who don’t like this. Anyway, I was really disappointed at launch that we wouldn’t be going out and smashing bosses faces to capture our skills. This near enough comes close to that. Thank you Anet.

Right…where was I? Oh, Master Strength traits.

Axe Mastery (Gain ferocity when wielding a main hand axe)

- Defeat the Terror-Seven Krewe Leader. A level 68 champion Inquest who you don’t really “kill” (she just runs off and sics another champion on you), who hangs out underwater in Mount Malestrom. I haven’t fought this one in a long while, so I’m uncertain how tough she is, but this is a Lv68 boss for a Lv60 trait. Once again, not really level appropriate. Buying the trait is faster, even with master trait guides costing 5 SP and 50 silver.

Slashing Power (Greatsword/Spear damage increased)

- Find the splendid chest in Rebel’s Seclusion (an obscure area in Fireheart Rise) I had to look this one up too, as I never ran across this, even with map completion. This kind of requirement I’m okay-ish with, as long as it’s not so obscure that you’d never find it without looking it up, and the puzzle and enemies within aren’t frustrating…which means this one’s kinda out of that safe spot, as the wiki shows all the enemies in there being Lv69/70, as well as there being a champion involved. For a Lv60 trait. Once again, just buying it is quicker and less of a pain.

Physical Training (Reduces recharge of physical utilities and increases their damage)

- Complete the Citadel of Flame dungeon’s story mode. Yet another requirement type I don’t enjoy.

Dungeons are long and frustrating to solo, if not impossible, depending on what gimmicks the dungeon has. In addition to that, putting it in story mode is also a waste, as most only do Story Mode to unlock Explorable Mode for their character(s), and then never again. It also doesn’t help that the rewards for Story Mode often aren’t worth the time invested, compared to Explorable Mode anyway.

And this is a Lv70 dungeon for a Lv60 trait! Not level appropriate.

Once again, buying it is better, unless you like dungeons or have a good group to get you through quickly. Even so, dungeons being hard/impossible to solo is the final nail in the coffin for this type of requirement. No, just no.

Distracting Strikes (Apply confusion on interrupting a foe)

- Befriend the ogre camp so they will join you as allies…in the Eternal Battlegrounds.

Once again. It’s a Lv80 area for a Lv60 trait. Even with upscaling, you won’t stand a chance if an actual 80 (or a group of them) come by while you’re slowly building up the progress bar for befriending any of the three camps in WvW. Oh, did I mention that this requirement has 3 versions, one for each camp? What fun. Pretty much unless the camp you’re after is near your side of the map, trying to do it yourself ends up with roamer groups noticing and just ganging up on you.

Not worth going through all that fuss. Buying it is quicker and less troublesome.

See the problem here? Buying the trait is always the quicker and better option in the long run if you really want traits, as the requirements range from tedious to annoying to flat out frustrating to do, and few of them involve actual skill on the player’s behalf, or being related to the trait that they’re for. Just annoying tasks designed to waste time better spent in a champ train to farm the coin/skill point scrolls needed. Sigh…

Well, it’s obvious that you are supposed to buy jewels, convert to gold and buy the traits. The evidence is pretty darn clear.

Coming soon to the gem store: Skill point scrolls.

Forgot to say, just got my first newbie to 80 under this system, had all the traits I needed already except some from 80 zones that I hadn’t walked to yet, without buying, mostly without help, most importantly without much hassle at all.

Perhaps some people should just see buying traits as the primary route and exploring/whatever as the alternative acquisition.

Also Nilkemia, I did all read that and I kind of see where you’re coming from. But in particular I feel like those places with traits that are over-expected-level are just sub-goals to work towards as your leveling. If you get to lv30 and you’ve got all those traits, the goal is to get to level 60. If you get to lv30 and want a trait from a lv42 area, you can start making your way in that direction and maybe even become level appropriate upon arrival.

Also, ‘tedious, annoying, ridiculous and frustrating’ are all on the same end of the scale, the range isn’t especially vast there. :P

Bellizare.5816:

Well, it’s obvious that you are supposed to buy jewels, convert to gold and buy the traits. The evidence is pretty darn clear.

Coming soon to the gem store: Skill point scrolls.

Or run like 10 dungeons?

/conspiracy theory

Vayne.8563:

Bellizare.5816:

Well, it’s obvious that you are supposed to buy jewels, convert to gold and buy the traits. The evidence is pretty darn clear.

Coming soon to the gem store: Skill point scrolls.

Or run like 10 dungeons?

/conspiracy theory

Would be cool to do at lvl 30 eh ?

Oh wait…….. can’t due to all the 80’s that ONLY want 80’s to run with and FULLY traited people !!

/Next

Nayaru.4716:

Forgot to say, just got my first newbie to 80 under this system, had all the traits I needed already except some from 80 zones that I hadn’t walked to yet, without buying, mostly without help, most importantly without much hassle at all.

Perhaps some people should just see buying traits as the primary route and exploring/whatever as the alternative acquisition.

Also Nilkemia, I did all read that and I kind of see where you’re coming from. But in particular I feel like those places with traits that are over-expected-level are just sub-goals to work towards as your leveling. If you get to lv30 and you’ve got all those traits, the goal is to get to level 60. If you get to lv30 and want a trait from a lv42 area, you can start making your way in that direction and maybe even become level appropriate upon arrival.

Also, ‘tedious, annoying, ridiculous and frustrating’ are all on the same end of the scale, the range isn’t especially vast there. :P

It still doesn’t change the fact that it’s an awful change from the original method of acquiring traits, and a deliberate gold/skill point sink, which is pointless since newer players get hit the hardest by this system, while those around before the change don’t get it as badly since they already have coin/skill point scrolls to compensate for this.

And, on my scale: Annoying < Tedious < Ridiculous <Frustrating. Not much of a difference between the latter two, but it’s there.

And now for Strength Grandmaster traits, only available at Lv80 instead of Lv60!…who thought that was a good idea? Also, they cost 10 SP and 1.5 gold (except for the special grandmaster traits, which are double that).

Berserker’s Might (Gain adrenaline in combat)

- Defeat the Risen Priest of Balthazar, the end boss of the Balthazar event chain. Meaning you need a coordinated group running at least one of the invasions, and know which enemies to focus on during the escort to the temple so the NPCs don’t die outright through the trip. While it does require some know-how, it is not solo-able by any means. Also, due to the megaservers, the temples are usually cleared as soon as they get contested again, meaning that you have to be there when a zerg is running the temple, or you’ll miss the chance for the trait. Thankfully, as long as you can get there and the group is competent, you’ll get the trait just fine…but it’s just another sign of how these requirement weren’t really thought out.

It’s like they said “Lets just put the unlock for either things most will do anyway for other reasons, or never do at all except for this reason we’re making!”

Due to the 10 SP cost, pick your grandmasters wisely.

Berserker’s Power (Increased damage based on adrenaline level)

- Find Death’s Anthem. (That ship at the southernmost part of the Cursed Shore)

Wow…that’s surprisingly easy for a trait unlock (being Lv80 notwithstanding). I mean, just go to the POI on the ship? Wow…why can’t most of them be like that?

Burst Precision (Increased critical chance for burst skills)

- Defeat the Risen High Wizard and secure the Promenade of the Gods/Gates of Arah.

Another world boss. Thankfully, you can get this one on the defense event as well (provided the Wizard shows up for that), but still, my misgivings with world bosses being trait unlocks remain. This one costs 3 gold and 20 SP as well, so you’d better save up if you’re gonna buy it!

..Sigh. I might cover the rest of the trait lines (for Warrior, anyway), but I think I’ve made my point. Most of the trait unlocks fall into one of the following:

- 100% a map, which is too tedious to do for just a trait unlock, especially considering that in the process of doing so, you’ll usually get enough coin/SP to just buy the trait anyway.

- Complete a Personal Story step, which is often higher leveled then the level for the trait itself. I didn’t show any of those, but basically it’s another “Just buy these, it’s much faster!” option.

- Find a chest in a mini-dungeon or other obscure spot. Sometimes these are okay, sometimes they’re not.

- Finding a certain POI/location. These ones are actually okay. Of course, they get used the least in the trait unlock system.

- Clear a dungeon’s story mode. Ironically, the one dungeon whose story mode does not count for a trait unlock is the first one, Ascalonian Catacombs. I’ve already said why this is a bad type of unlock.

- Kill some obscure boss that never gets fought for any other reason, usually a champion.

- Kill world bosses, meaning you’ll need a zerg for it anyway. Annoying.

- Complete/capture some objective in WvW/EotM. Not a place for uplevels to even begin with.

They really could’ve done better with the trait unlocks, since most of the time, it’s better to just find a champion farming train and get the coin/skill points you need that way. And I’ve got nothing against champion farming trains (to each their own), but when that’s the only really good way to do this(besides hoarding gold/SP beforehand), something’s not right.

Does anyone know whether traits are the same in the China release? If they are, does anyone also know whether a player base that had not seen the old system is reacting?

The answers to these questions may make quite a bit of difference in how ANet reacts to the criticisms in this thread. If the new population is not complaining (or likes the system), and it they want to keep the two versions as close as possible, we may not see substantial change.

I think that some of the complaints arise because we’d gotten used to how traits were. I also think that there are some aspects of the system that are objectively bad — like putting adept trait capping in high level zones.

Isley.1649:

Did the devs even tell us WHY they came up with the unlocking system in the first place?

From the Blog on traits before the feature patch.

“This new system for acquiring traits in the game brings back an aspect of the original Guild Wars that we really liked, which was exploring the world as a major component of character progression. Acquiring traits will be a horizontal progression system which will give us new ways to add new traits to the game and promote interesting content!”

At page 26 I don’t think another verbose post adds to the discussion, so just let me add my +1 to all said above:
- progression far too slow
- experimentation hampered
- grindy and railroady implementation
- kitten the kitten’s kittening kitten-kitten

Nilkemia.8507:

..Sigh. I might cover the rest of the trait lines (for Warrior, anyway), but I think I’ve made my point.

Trait unlocks are the same across professions. They go by line and numbers I-XIII. There’s no variation from this formula.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait_guide

This part is a general response to those defending this system:

This has a breakdown of traits by level near the bottom. The level 50-60 list has 6 adept traits of the 9 objectives. A fifth of the available adept traits are not available until levels 50-60. 4 adept traits can be obtained in wvw, and are listed as being available to all levels, since you get upscaled. Make of that what you will.

10 adept traits are available from 40-50. More than half of the adept trait objectives are level 40+. This accounts for 20 of the 30 traits available. Of the 10 that are level appropriate, 3 of them are map completion, including Lornar’s Pass, which may as well be grouped with the 40-50 bunch, since it ranges from 25-40. Hopefully your chosen profession has some useful traits among those 9 that are achievable by level 36.

i am not making any new characters till they fix they trait system………….i finally got my necromancer to 80, leveling is SO tedious now it is not fun. and after all this work i have to pay gold or do a event i would not normally do to unlock the traits i want. not to mention the new system kills experimentation, it is hard enough to get all the traits you want without paying gold, why would i grind (or pay) more for traits i just want to use once???

The system blocks my character’s progress because i can’t unlock traits that i need or even if i unlock them i can’t buy any of my slot skills. The system clearly wastes all of the time to find the mobs and kill them instead of leveling up and enhancing my skills for wvwvw. I stopped playing my non-80 characters because of it and don’t think gonna play them again, there is no need to play the game that steals my time and give me no fun but grinding stupid mobs.
Also for 80 chracters, events are not for everyone, i done tequatl for like 100 or more times but i stopped having fun after my 2nd run, for my 3 80 level chracters i have to do Karka queen which is redundant and has no real fun… You can’t keep people in game if you turn it into a grind machine. At least i stopped playing the game after your superrior feature patch, and great profession balance oriented decisions.

The worst in my opinion is that for the grandmaster traits there are several quests required that will only show up when the preceding quests are failed. Asking people in chat to please stop fighting and fail the quest is not only a pain, but rarely anyone listens.

Terrible choice Anet

IndigoSundown.5419:

Does anyone know whether traits are the same in the China release? If they are, does anyone also know whether a player base that had not seen the old system is reacting?

The answers to these questions may make quite a bit of difference in how ANet reacts to the criticisms in this thread. If the new population is not complaining (or likes the system), and it they want to keep the two versions as close as possible, we may not see substantial change.

I think that some of the complaints arise because we’d gotten used to how traits were. I also think that there are some aspects of the system that are objectively bad — like putting adept trait capping in high level zones.

Isley.1649:

Did the devs even tell us WHY they came up with the unlocking system in the first place?

From the Blog on traits before the feature patch.

“This new system for acquiring traits in the game brings back an aspect of the original Guild Wars that we really liked, which was exploring the world as a major component of character progression. Acquiring traits will be a horizontal progression system which will give us new ways to add new traits to the game and promote interesting content!”

chinese market isnt just new, they have very different paradigm. I will say that these trait changes were mostly meant to fit in with the chinese paradigms, and cash shop.

also the execution was poor, and lazy, though i understand the paradigm of herding players together, you are not enhancing gameplay by having same unlocks for everything, and group orienting personal growth. Its just not good the way its been handled.

Vayne.8563:

Bellizare.5816:

Well, it’s obvious that you are supposed to buy jewels, convert to gold and buy the traits. The evidence is pretty darn clear.

Coming soon to the gem store: Skill point scrolls.

Or run like 10 dungeons?

/conspiracy theory

Well, if you seriously don’t think that ANET “conspires” to generate income……

Seriously, it’s a business. The no monthly fee model is only sustainable if there are lots of new accounts, or current accounts invest $$$$ in the gem store.

I doubt that they plan to utilize any profits from China to subsidize NA and Europe.

Anyway, leveling one toon in this new system is unbearably tedious. I’ve done it once with resources that a new player will not have access to. I really can’t imagine doing it over again.

For the one that just made the argument that the new system is just fine: How many characters do you run, how often do you play and for how long, and what game modes do you play in? Furthermore, do you have all of your adept and master traits unlocked?

I honestly would like to know what kind of player base you fall into since you are appearing to be a fairly atypical player.

Nayaru.4716:

Hmm maybe it’s just people who haven’t played GW1 who don’t like this.

I played GW1 and loved GW1. I don’t like the new trait acquisition process. Why? Well for starters, GW1 is not GW2, and traits aren’t equivalent to elites or skills. The “process” in GW1 wasn’t all that complicated: “That guy has something you want, kill him for it.”

But mainly, I don’t like this change because it kills a large amount of freedom one had in PvE. I used to be able to progress my character through any manner I chose. Now I have to follow a handful of guidelines, and a lot of the content now feels “required”. Of course I don’t consider that an improvement: being required to complete certain content is way less horizontal than choosing any content.

lol logged in gw2 while back to see whats new and saw the traits
and quit gw2
later peeps >,>

RedDevil.6280:

lol logged in gw2 while back to see whats new and saw the traits
and quit gw2
later peeps >,>

I trying so hard not to…

I logged in today on my fourth day of absence from the game, took a deep breath, sucked it up… and went after just one trait… Just one… I went to befriend the Hylek in EBG. Should be simple, right? Five deaths and 1 hour 20 mins later, I FINALLY got it done because people kept killing me and recapping them and nobody would help me.

In case I’ve not kicked this horse into being dead enough…

I hate this…

I HATE IT! HATE IT! HATE IT!

Smith.1826:

Nayaru.4716:

Hmm maybe it’s just people who haven’t played GW1 who don’t like this.

I played GW1 and loved GW1. I don’t like the new trait acquisition process. Why? Well for starters, GW1 is not GW2, and traits aren’t equivalent to elites or skills. The “process” in GW1 wasn’t all that complicated: “That guy has something you want, kill him for it.”

But mainly, I don’t like this change because it kills a large amount of freedom one had in PvE. I used to be able to progress my character through any manner I chose. Now I have to follow a handful of guidelines, and a lot of the content now feels “required”. Of course I don’t consider that an improvement: being required to complete certain content is way less horizontal than choosing any content.

Yeah people seem to forget this.

In GW1 you could have a decent build even without any elite skill. Try same in GW2 without any trait.

Similarly in GW1 you needed only to unlock a couple of elites to play properly (and everything could be done solo with henchies/heroes). In GW2 you need to unlock at least 7 things, even more if you want to change a build.

in GW1 allot of skills could be gained for absolutely nothing, attribute points are gained every single level and you can change your build on the fly in towns/outposts.
in GW2 however, we are stuck with the skills the weapons forces on us, the trait system is only useful from lvl 36 and up and we have no control over our build.

GW1 is made for builds but for what i see, GW2 is made to grind, the one thing Anet advertised was not in the game.
so in case Anet thinks the trait system is good the way it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

KStudios.2850:

RedDevil.6280:

lol logged in gw2 while back to see whats new and saw the traits
and quit gw2
later peeps >,>

I trying so hard not to…

I logged in today on my fourth day of absence from the game, took a deep breath, sucked it up… and went after just one trait… Just one… I went to befriend the Hylek in EBG. Should be simple, right? Five deaths and 1 hour 20 mins later, I FINALLY got it done because people kept killing me and recapping them and nobody would help me.

In case I’ve not kicked this horse into being dead enough…

I hate this…

I HATE IT! HATE IT! HATE IT!

Yep. I tried that too a few times with no success on an alt. Always ended with a roaming enemy group coming over and killing me. This sums up why WvW should not be a place for any trait requirements.

KStudios.2850:

RedDevil.6280:

lol logged in gw2 while back to see whats new and saw the traits
and quit gw2
later peeps >,>

I trying so hard not to…

I logged in today on my fourth day of absence from the game, took a deep breath, sucked it up… and went after just one trait… Just one… I went to befriend the Hylek in EBG. Should be simple, right? Five deaths and 1 hour 20 mins later, I FINALLY got it done because people kept killing me and recapping them and nobody would help me.

In case I’ve not kicked this horse into being dead enough…

I hate this…

I HATE IT! HATE IT! HATE IT!

It’s not a dead horse if the negative consequences to gameplay are still there.

Two months later and many guildies still actively refuse to create new toons. The enjoyment of creating new toons was what kept them coming back to open world PvE – that’s over now.

Mention trait unlocks in Lions Arch today and people are still super kittened

I think a lot of players are waiting to see if Anet addresses traits with the July 1st update before deciding to bench GW2 and play other games for the summer

It’s possible that Anet could some of the trait requirements to draw players to the new areas, but don’t count on it since that would only make dead PvE areas even deader.

Scientia.8924:

KStudios.2850:

RedDevil.6280:

lol logged in gw2 while back to see whats new and saw the traits
and quit gw2
later peeps >,>

I trying so hard not to…

I logged in today on my fourth day of absence from the game, took a deep breath, sucked it up… and went after just one trait… Just one… I went to befriend the Hylek in EBG. Should be simple, right? Five deaths and 1 hour 20 mins later, I FINALLY got it done because people kept killing me and recapping them and nobody would help me.

In case I’ve not kicked this horse into being dead enough…

I hate this…

I HATE IT! HATE IT! HATE IT!

It’s not a dead horse if the negative consequences to gameplay are still there.

Two months later and many guildies still actively refuse to create new toons. The enjoyment of creating new toons was what kept them coming back to open world PvE – that’s over now.

Mention trait unlocks in Lions Arch today and people are still super kittened

I think a lot of players are waiting to see if Anet addresses traits with the July 1st update before deciding to bench GW2 and play other games for the summer

It’s possible that Anet could some of the trait requirements to draw players to the new areas, but don’t count on it since that would only make dead PvE areas even deader.

I truly do not understand what they’re doing or trying to accomplish anymore. It now looks as if they’re trying to push a strictly linear character progression. Basically saying, “this is how you will level your character,” and leaving it at that. With very little regard to the “play it your way, we’ve made this different” style that was touted and praised upon release. Why now do they seem to be trying to herd us into those same shackles that they were so proud to proclaim they were avoiding when overhauling the game’s system to be so different than every other grindy MMO of that time? Why are they back-peddling on everything that made this game revolutionary?

I’ve already stated exactly my brother’s reaction in playing this game for a mere three weeks, even prior to the latest trait update(s). It breaks my heart to already see so many dead instances, even after the move to megaserver status. Yeah sure, world bosses are often still anxiously awaited, but on average when mapping you might run into one other person an hour while simply mapping or moving about doing hearts. They’re expecting that forcing into an exact formulaic character progression is going to draw more players in?

This is sadly not the case. I miss the days when I didn’t even have to leave WvW or sPvP in order to get dailies and freely level. I could choose something I wished to do during my meager four or so hours of daily playtime, and not have to worry about not achieving any of those things in that time. They happened on their own, and that made the game great. Now I have to apparently structure and schedule my time to make sure I accomplish almost anything… “I should go here now… I need two skill points and one gold for this… Oop, I almost forgot to craft my once a day thread for my next Ascended piece… Oh, but guild says Karka Queen is up right now…”

Anet…

Please nerf…

I have no problem with the new system. It was too easy before

The great thing about GW2 at release was the constant feeling you had of progression and character development as you leveled to 80; that has now been stymied by this ridiculous new trait system.
This new system when coupled with GW2’s zone design linearity has made the game become stale.

Spinning your wheels for tens of levels is not fun and having to wait to build your character at level 80 is stupid.

Sube Dai.8496:

I have no problem with the new system. It was too easy before

Level of ease isn’t really the issue at hand. It’s the pushing of an exact formulaic system that requires a player to perform precise tasks in order to progress. Player character creation and leveling has now become so much a conveyor belt function.

I don’t see why the trait system even required a remodel to begin with. It wasn’t broken. Sure, the massive 60 point trait system was indeed a tad redundant to be sure. Because who really needs points between the 1 and 5, 5 and 10, etc anyway?
Streamlining it to simple increments of 5 was a valid change. But why overhaul the entire system?

It has dawned on me finally, something that I think many before me beat me to in conclusion, and yet I simply refused to believe… How much does Anet actually listen to the game’s player base? How many of these “refinements” that we’ve seen since launch have actually been suggested and desired by the actual players? I for one can only think of one offhand. The coliseum expansion to the Obsidian Sanctum map. And that was a case in which it seemed like they only did that begrudgingly because it was obvious GvG and Dueling matches were going to remain a popular pastime (and was supposedly a hinderance to the functionality of WvW at the time). That and Living Story being replayable, which by the sounds of things is finally coming to pass.

Where are guild halls? Where are guild alliances (hint hint Anet, most guilds do have them on a non-formal basis already)? Are we ever getting more utility skills? Are rangers ever getting the “tune-up” they’ve wanted forever? Water balloons but no swimwear yet (Kasmeer, the only woman on Tyria that owns swimwear)? Savable build templates ( for the love of Dwayna please already!)? Also, I’ve heard in map chat in LA that it would be amazing if the reconstruction lead to the “New LA” being a large scale airship hub. I have to agree, that would indeed be amazing.

Things at this point I may never see… I’m teetering here. I played (and was happy with) this game’s predecessor for the entirety of its run before this one was released. I’d hoped for the same here.

the GW1 system of rewarding a significant portion of skills (or in this game, traits) via quest lines worked really well there, why is the GW2 so retrograde?