Guild Wars 2

Glad to see all my infractions and 3 suspensions were not for nought!

Well, it may be premature, but in regard to new characters…

Embargo — LIFTED!

Actually, I lifted it last Saturday, but this is much more dramatic.

Brtiva.9721:

It remains to be seen, what the current system will be replaced with. I am not celebrating yet.

The current system was hailed as being this new, awesome, and improved thing. I feel quite the opposite, personally. So, I have become a skeptic and reserve judgment . We have been told the current system will be removed but what will we end up with?

Very welcome news that the current system is going away but as I do not know what this truly means I am still not excited. It would be very easy to get excited about this, but I have disliked everything that has been done since the trait change except the free and immediate respec. Experience has made me quite wary.

Can’t agree more. At this point, the devil has been proven to be in the details.

I’ll be cautiously optimistic that the new system will be an improvement. Bummed that the financials hint release of HoT won’t be until Q3, as I was thinking about starting a new alt, but there’s no way I’ll do that with knowledge that the trait system might improve in the foreseeable future.

They did say that the new system will be account unlocks, rather than character, so I expect that those of us with grandfathered unlocked traits on characters will now have them open to our entire account.

Eric.6109:

“A more simplified system”. hmmm I know I heard that phrase before, just can’t put my finger on it….

On the plus side, I’m really enjoying myself playing the-game-that-must-not-be-named.

My feelings exactly. I am not excited yet, by far. It remains to be seen what will replace this.

Everything we got, that I disliked very much, was called better, simpler, more fun, exciting, so on and so forth. My skepticism is very strong, despite my desire to be excited about the removal of this trait system.

As it will not be a reversion to what it was (I doubt that very, very much), that leaves me with this promise of a new system which could be anything at all. Based upon how things have been going ever since the patch which gave us the trait system, this does not strike me as encouraging.

Thank the gods of Tyria.

Soon, please.

Thank you for the effort to fix the single worst issue of this game.
But please bring in the new feature as soon as possible, definitely before the xpac release. I am sure this can be achieved. It can also give players a taste of your new system in xpac

A few things:

1) THANK YOU for finally confirming this is changing. Much, much appreciated.

2) I’ll have to chime in with others who feel that, while its great that this is being changed, the 9+ months of wait (and still no actual time frame) is a big, big issue. This has actively stopped people playing the game, and stopped a lot of recommendations.

3) Could we please have a time frame and, if this is coming with HoT, is that at all flexible?

4) If this is going to be a long wait, could you confirm that all characters will be transferred to the new system? I would love to make a new character, but I haven’t bought new slots because I am concerned that characters made between last April and the future change will be left with the current system.

Thanks again

Thank you, Colin. BUT… IMO, you basically just came in and said ‘thanks for 78 pages of ideas and complaints, we won’t be doing anything you have suggested, but we will do something else. Oh, and it won’t be coming out for 4-6 months or so. Deal with it until then. KTHXBYE.

Not impressed.

runeblade.7514:

I like current trait unlocking system. It could use more work, but not enough for it to be removed completely.

A few minor additions would be enough to satisfy the masses.

Umm… no. A ‘few minor additions’ would not satisfy most of us. I don’t know where you get your knowledge, but if you read this thread, you would never say that.

Hamuko.3547:

Since it’s part of HOT I’m guessing it won’t apply to people who don’t buy it. Does this mean they will continue to use the current system or will they lose access to traits?

I don’t know where you got these ideas:

1. This is part of HoT
2. It wouldn’t apply to people who don’t buy HoT.

This is what was actually said:

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future.

They’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system. How would a system that was removed apply to a subset of users? You do realize that this scenario that you’re fearing would actually be troublesome for ArenaNet to implement and maintain, right? Never mind the player outcry that they could expect. No other MMO that I’ve ever played has ever maintained two skill systems simultaneously. Even WoW, the king of expansions, releases a pre-expansion patch that applies to everyone before the patch even goes live.

This is a similar circumstance. Colin stated that they’re going to replace the current system with one that “supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future.” Exactly what that support entails is still anyone’s guess, but from what’s been stated, I think we can infer that they will probably be:

1. Account-wide
2. Unlockable through a points system similar to the one that’s already in place for skills

I’m loving how three of my predictions about the Heart of Thorns have come true so far. If, after we defeat Mordy, Jormag and the ‘eternal winter’ comes, I’m opening a soothsayer shop.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

Thank you for posting this! I was at the HoT announcement Saturday and the traits question was one of the few things I felt was missing. It’s very encouraging to hear that the devs are paying attention to our feedback.

I would love some more clarification on whether the revamp will happen before the expansion release?

Tachenon.5270:

Well, it may be premature, but in regard to new characters…

Embargo — LIFTED!

Actually, I lifted it last Saturday, but this is much more dramatic.

Now if only they would release school uniforms so I could lift my embargo on spending real money to purchase gems. I’ve had that in place since Dragon Bash.

Well, I spent about 38,6 gold and 320 skill points to unlock some traits to my characters created after this system. Any chance for a refund?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I’m loving how three of my predictions about the Heart of Thorns have come true so far. If, after we defeat Mordy, Jormag and the ‘eternal winter’ comes, I’m opening a soothsayer shop.

I know that feeling. I may join you if I get another hit. Though I wonder if it isn’t just a really good dose of common sense mixed with a dash of a keen sense for common patterns.

Back to what I planned to type. Thank you for the news Colin. It was much needed.
I would like to say that Gaile has done a great job in the community but I wonder if we couldn’t have gotten more feedback in this thread from other members of the Anet team.
An example of such communication would go something like this.

Player.1234 : Acquiring traits has become such a chore now that I am on my second character I really don’t want to do this all over again. What if the trait system was much simpler like using Karma instead of skill points and gold.

AnetPerson: That’s not a bad suggestion and here’s the merits of doing it that way…. But you also need to consider the downside to your suggestion which is……

No promises, no revelations, no problems from just a small amount of back and forth communication. Of course AnetPerson should not reply to all posts or they would possibly go gray then bald in a very short span of time. However giving small tidbits of feedback goes a very long way. It doesn’t have to be a CDI for Anet team members to become involved. This is a huge topic that has affected a large number of players and will continue to do so as they discover the changes.
My hope has been rekindled. I still remain tentative until we have something with substance to chew on.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

Thank the Khan-Ur for this! Tell us when this will go live, I need this fix!

Brtiva.9721:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

It remains to be seen, what the current system will be replaced with. I am not celebrating yet.

The current system was hailed as being this new, awesome, and improved thing. I feel quite the opposite, personally. So, I have become a skeptic and reserve judgment . We have been told the current system will be removed but what will we end up with?

Very welcome news that the current system is going away but as I do not know what this truly means I am still not excited. It would be very easy to get excited about this, but I have disliked everything that has been done since the trait change except the free and immediate respec. Experience has made me quite wary.

Indeed. It could end up being far worse than what we have at the moment.

I’m going to have to go through one of my new characters and do the unlocks… once.
Just to experience it. And then that will be enough.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

The communication is most definitely appreciated.

However, it would have been better if there had been a bit more dialogue before now. I realize that you could not have said anything that even hinted at HoT, and I understand the difficulty that must have put you guys in. But hopefully in the future we can find some middle ground between “Cone of Silence” and “Reveal ALL THE THINGS!!!”

I don’t mean this to be taken harshly, but a relationship with a game community is not something you can just flip on and off like a light bulb.

But again, thank you for the communication.

I never understood the QQ about this, they went from a system where you buy your traits….to a system where you can buy OR unlock your traits and people are complaining? I don’t understand….just unlock them with ingame gold if you don’t like PvE. JUST as it was before.

OK, that is awesome news from Colin. But…now I feel encouraged to wait until HoT before making any more characters. Maybe some of the related changes, such as this, might be rolled out ahead of time as they’re ready? It seems best for everyone if any features that aren’t locked behind the HoT-buywall are pushed out on their own.

Zanthrax.6538:

I never understood the QQ about this, they went from a system where you buy your traits….to a system where you can buy OR unlock your traits and people are complaining? I don’t understand….just unlock them with ingame gold if you don’t like PvE. JUST as it was before.

Maybe because buying them under the present system costs a heck of a lot more than it was JUST before.

Keysha.2815:

Thank you, Colin. BUT… IMO, you basically just came in and said ‘thanks for 78 pages of ideas and complaints, we won’t be doing anything you have suggested, but we will do something else. Oh, and it won’t be coming out for 4-6 months or so. Deal with it until then. KTHXBYE.

Not impressed.

First off, you don’t know if they’ll incorporate any ideas from 78 pages. If you’d like to help, you should read all 78 pages and pick your favorite suggestions.

Second – and this is to people in general – one of the tones from the PAX event and the rhetoric about HoT is that it’s “going back to GW2’s roots” and “redefining the future direction of the game”. That’s why Colin mentioned Masteries/Specs in the same breath as Traits, and it’s why they need to be changed AT THE SAME TIME as Masteries/Specs are added.

Make sense?

ColinJohanson.2394:

snip

TYVM Colin as this is great news! I do have a question for you though. Say you recently bought a couple of accounts this year and have yet to unlock most of the traits. Knowing what you know, would you go ahead and unlock all the traits before HoT? Or, is that going to be a poor usage of playing time?

TY for the feedback in advance

I’m happy to hear that trait unlocking is going to change for good

Now i feel like community feedback is really worth the effort, maybe not from individual requests but the overall feeling of the players about certain changes is a good point of reference for devs to keep improving the game.

Corax.7381:

First off, you don’t know if they’ll incorporate any ideas from 78 pages. If you’d like to help, you should read all 78 pages and pick your favorite suggestions.

Second – and this is to people in general – one of the tones from the PAX event and the rhetoric about HoT is that it’s “going back to GW2’s roots” and “redefining the future direction of the game”. That’s why Colin mentioned Masteries/Specs in the same breath as Traits, and it’s why they need to be changed AT THE SAME TIME as Masteries/Specs are added.

Make sense?

First, I HAVE been here from the beginning of this thread, posting and reading throughout. Have you? Why pick MY favorites when it has been done by many, repeatedly?

Second, regardless of the ‘tone’ of PAX, they ‘redefined’ the trait system once. Redefine does not mean improve. I can go back to the ‘roots’ of GW2 and redefine the direction of the game to something completely different. Doesn’t mean it’s right. Just different. And telling those of us who have been waiting 10 months now for a fix that they said they were ‘working on’ from the beginning, is going to be another who knows how many more months before the entire system is scrapped is, to some of us, a slap in the face of what we have been doing for the last 10 months. And what they have been saying. So fixing it AT THE SAME TIME as they do the rest is fine, but they can do something, in the interim, or expect some of us to not be happy at this.

Make sense?

Better Than Never

ColinJohanson.2394:

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

As tempting as it is to say “about freakin’ time” after all these many months, the bottom line is that — warts and all — I still consider GW2 the best game I’ve ever played, so…

Thanks.

…

P.S. Now if you could make some much-needed improvements to this great game’s horribly clunky camera system (e.g., FOV adjustment, zoom-pumping mitigation and zoom-to-first-person-view capability), we can finally enjoy all that beautiful, high-verticality content you’ve been sending our way.

Keysha.2815:

runeblade.7514:

I like current trait unlocking system. It could use more work, but not enough for it to be removed completely.

A few minor additions would be enough to satisfy the masses.

Umm… no. A ‘few minor additions’ would not satisfy most of us. I don’t know where you get your knowledge, but if you read this thread, you would never say that.

Yes it would.

Unlockable traits gives the feeling of power progression. It helps a little bit in the progression between level 30-80 from being stale and boring. All you needed to do is buy a minimum of 7 traits, every other traits are optional and cosmetic.

A few minor additions will help. Such as:

• Trait books as RNG loot.
• Trait books as level rewards
• Trait quests- A mail comes to you on where the trait book is located.
• Seperate WvW and PvE trait progression.
• More profession trainers in every zone.

Never once while leveling most of my characters through trait unlocking did I feel that Trait unlocking became a chore. If I really wanted a specific trait, I can buy it straight from the trainer.

Thanks for the new info, Colin.

While I did enjoy the concept of “adventuring to gain traits”, I do agree that it was a bit complicated and unwieldy, with a lot of traits forcing you to go into game modes you may not enjoy, or were at inappropriate levels compared to the level you were first eligible for the trait.

I would like to see a more streamlined process where completing certain game content instead rewards you with Trait Unlock points. (Not to be confused with Trait points.) You can then spend these points on whatever traits suit your fancy, allowing you to do content you like, and learn traits that you like.

For example, say that a PvE player completes Flame Temple Tombs and earns 1 Trait Unlock point. He can then spend that on a Minor Trait, or he could save it up for a Master Trait when he collects 3 Trait Unlock Points. At the same time, a WvW player captures 3 Towers and also earns 1 Trait Unlock point. He could also spend that on a Minor Trait, or save it up.

Trait Unlock points stack, regardless of how they are obtained in the game. This allows a player to dabble in multiple game modes, or simply stick to the one they like.

Finally, as an alternative to earning these points, players can still purchase new traits outright from trainers for gold+skill points.

I feel that this would result in a flexible system that would suit everybody.

So now that we have a confirmation of change, we should have something to look forward to. We should give ourselves a pat on the back rather than sending cakes and kisses to Anet. It was us, players, that pave the way towards a brighter future. This thread, that everyone took time to contribute in, was what helped Anet.

The upcoming 3rd version of the trait system is supposed to be a more simplified version. Let’s hope they don’t create another monstrosity. We have already waited months for a change.

Furthermore, the trait system change is only confirmed. Apparently, we still have to wait awhile (probably months) before the change is going live. My speculation: either a little before HoT is released or released along with HoT. Of course, we are all impatient (as we’ve already waited months) and want the change to happen tomorrow or even next month.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread’s purpose. One person’s voice is not enough to force the hands of a company to change their ridiculous system, but this thread worked and I’m proud to be part of it.

Zanthrax.6538:

I never understood the QQ about this, they went from a system where you buy your traits….to a system where you can buy OR unlock your traits and people are complaining? I don’t understand….just unlock them with ingame gold if you don’t like PvE. JUST as it was before.

To buy the traits previously costed about 3-5g tops. You purchased an entire Tier of traits at a time. Purchase the tier, have access to all traits freely. Refunding traits costed money, but it wasn’t really all that bad.

To buy the traits now requires a total of 43g AND 360 Skill points. By the time you’re level 80 playing normally, you’ll have maybe 200 skill points depending on how many challenges you did, and anywhere between 20-40g from drops. Problem is, you’ll be using skill points to unlock skills before purchasing traits. Playing normally to level 80 won’t give you many unlocked traits, due to the arbitrary nature of the unlock requirements.

The best part? You have to repeat the whole process on EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER YOU CREATE.

That’s the problem.

runeblade.7514:

All you needed to do is buy a minimum of 7 traits, every other traits are optional and cosmetic.

7 Traits for one build. ArenaNet has said that they want to allow for free experimentation of builds. You can’t do that with 7 traits. Free experimentation means having all 65 traits, and no, experimenting in PvP does not count for PvE. Some professions only have one meta build, but others have many different depending on the situation. 7 Traits will not let you switch freely between these different situations/playstyles.

Zanthrax.6538:

I never understood the QQ about this, they went from a system where you buy your traits….to a system where you can buy OR unlock your traits and people are complaining? I don’t understand….just unlock them with ingame gold if you don’t like PvE. JUST as it was before.

It was cheaper back then, and it also didn’t require skill points, which in my opinion made it worse.

I’m glad to hear the acquisition method is getting changed. Here’s to hoping that the timing is pushed earlier as well. Forcing a character to get to level 80 before using a Grandmaster trait still seems like a huge mistake to me.

Rashy.4165:

Zanthrax.6538:

I never understood the QQ about this, they went from a system where you buy your traits….to a system where you can buy OR unlock your traits and people are complaining? I don’t understand….just unlock them with ingame gold if you don’t like PvE. JUST as it was before.

To buy the traits previously costed about 3-5g tops. You purchased an entire Tier of traits at a time. Purchase the tier, have access to all traits freely. Refunding traits costed money, but it wasn’t really all that bad.

To buy the traits now requires a total of 43g AND 360 Skill points. By the time you’re level 80 playing normally, you’ll have maybe 200 skill points depending on how many challenges you did, and anywhere between 20-40g from drops. Problem is, you’ll be using skill points to unlock skills before purchasing traits. Playing normally to level 80 won’t give you many unlocked traits, due to the arbitrary nature of the unlock requirements.

The best part? You have to repeat the whole process on EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER YOU CREATE.

That’s the problem.

runeblade.7514:

All you needed to do is buy a minimum of 7 traits, every other traits are optional and cosmetic.

7 Traits for one build. ArenaNet has said that they want to allow for free experimentation of builds. You can’t do that with 7 traits. Free experimentation means having all 65 traits, and no, experimenting in PvP does not count for PvE. Some professions only have one meta build, but others have many different depending on the situation. 7 Traits will not let you switch freely between these different situations/playstyles.

The thing is, people WILL experiment and grind for gold/traits/skills.They’re obviously have it set up like this for a plethora of beneficial reasons. In a way you’re going to be grinding towards a build, not just a boss/puzzles/items/gold etc.

The current traits and skills are boring to get at the moment.

Zanthrax.6538:

I never understood the QQ about this, they went from a system where you buy your traits….to a system where you can buy OR unlock your traits and people are complaining? I don’t understand….just unlock them with ingame gold if you don’t like PvE. JUST as it was before.

You don’t understand the difference between paying 3 gold 10 silver to unlock traits vs. paying 43 gold and 360 skill points?

You don’t understand the difference between unlocking three trait tiers vs. unlocking 80 individual traits?

If so, you need help with mathematics.

…And those points don’t even raise the idea of character level vs. access to the traits via tasks.

The changes were NOT good for a whole bunch of folks. I’m glad to read that something will be done about it and cautiously optimistic to see what actually gets done about it.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

I was waiting to hear something like this for months. Thanks for posting this, wish you would have said this about 4 to 6 months ago, though. Regardless, at this point thank you.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!! I quit playing GW2 for awhile but the hype for the expansion got to me so I decided to check back in and this just made my hype so much better.

Brtiva.9721:

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

It remains to be seen, what the current system will be replaced with. I am not celebrating yet.

The current system was hailed as being this new, awesome, and improved thing. I feel quite the opposite, personally. So, I have become a skeptic and reserve judgment . We have been told the current system will be removed but what will we end up with?

Very welcome news that the current system is going away but as I do not know what this truly means I am still not excited. It would be very easy to get excited about this, but I have disliked everything that has been done since the trait change except the free and immediate respec. Experience has made me quite wary.

My thoughts exactly. So the current system is going away, +1 for that. However, what exactly is replacing it? And not in generic dev speak/PR, but in actual, precise details. I hope they provide meaningful details soon enough. Also, what is the ETA for the change?

Pourekos.5032:

Brtiva.9721:

It remains to be seen, what the current system will be replaced with. I am not celebrating yet.

The current system was hailed as being this new, awesome, and improved thing. I feel quite the opposite, personally. So, I have become a skeptic and reserve judgment . We have been told the current system will be removed but what will we end up with?

Very welcome news that the current system is going away but as I do not know what this truly means I am still not excited. It would be very easy to get excited about this, but I have disliked everything that has been done since the trait change except the free and immediate respec. Experience has made me quite wary.

My thoughts exactly. So the current system is going away, +1 for that. However, what exactly is replacing it? And not in generic dev speak/PR, but in actual, precise details. I hope they provide meaningful details soon enough. Also, what is the ETA for the change?

Well, given that Colin mentioned Traits, Masteries, Skills, Specialisations and the release of HoT in his post I think it’s fair to say that this change (whatever that change is) will be coming either with HoT or the major patch that precedes it.

Like you both, I’m cautiously optimistic but I won’t be cracking open the champagne until it’s revealed what will replace the current system.

From the mention of masteries being involved I’m guessing that this’ll mean an account wide unlock of traits in some form, hopefully.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

Thank you. When creating this new system, please keep in mind two things that I consider of the utmost importance, not just for my personal playing style, but for what GW2 originally stood for and what, I think, played a huge role in making the game so refreshing and popular at launch:

1) Alt friendliness. The game launched with more alt-friendly features built in than most other MMO’s I know (some of which have been copied by other MMO’s since ), and it only got better with the introduction of the account-wide purse, account-wide bonus luck unlocks, and things like that.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t as fixated on “max level endgame content” as other MMO’s, which is all the more reason why it entices creating alts. You’re not stuck on your one main because you have to go raiding with him 3 times a week. Instead, you’re free to create alts, explore different professions and races, and so on.

The main thing I did and enjoyed in GW2 was coming up with ideas for new characters and then creating that character and slowly leveling them. You can check out my account if you want, I have bought close to 10 character slots. I really enjoy leveling alts. I also enjoy doing map completion on them, when I feel like it. What I really don’t enjoy is being compelled to do the same, often incredibly difficult and tedious to get, events in order to even be able to play them the way I want to.

Another point here is that leveling new characters feels so much more boring, slow and unrewarding when you only get so few trait points, and start getting them so late. It was SO much fun to get a trait point every level starting at 11. I felt like I could actively improve my character from early on, having direct influence over them from early on, playing the way I want to from early on. I was proud of my character from early on, because even at level 16, they’d have some specific abilities that I wanted them to have, and that made them different from others of the same profession at level 16. “Playing your way”, this is the main thing I loved GW2 for.

(cont.)

2) Freedom and diversity in terms of playstyle. One of the things that fascinated me the most during the GW2 beta weekends, along with the lovely character design and exploring amazing beautiful cities like Rata Sum and Lion’s Arch, was how free and diverse the gameplay seemed to me. Me and my friends would create characters of each profession and take them to the Mists, and then try out all their different weapons and skills. I was fascinated by the idea that you could participate in PVP on an equal playing field from the first minute, without having to tediously farm gear (or anything else) in order to compete.

When playing GW2, I always really liked that I could switch up my playstyle whenever I wanted to. I wanna play a supportive Guardian with Mace and Staff? I spec the respective traits, equip the weapons, and I’m good to go. I wanna play a DPS guardian with Greatsword and Sword? I spec the respective traits, equip the weapons, and I’m good to go. This was fun. So much fun.

The trait changes in April make it so that you’re strongly compelled to think hard before you even begin a character: which playstyle do I want? And then go straight for those traits. If you ever want to try another playstyle, you’re severely disencouraged from that, because going out and trying your darndest to collect the missing traits (esp. when you require certain events for them, that just won’t happen, etc) seems like such a chore.

I’ve heard from a lot of people who would literally tell those who’d complain about this fact: “Well, what are you crying about, just farm the traits for build XYZ cause that’s the best for your profession. Why would you even want anything else, if you play anything else you’re not playing right, QQ moar.” I thought, if that’s the kind of player attitude and playstyle that arena.net creates their game for now …. okay, then I’m out. Again, “playing your way” is what initially drew me in to the game and kept me playing and entertained for a long while.

With all this said … I really miss the game I used to play and love. I miss Asura, I miss my guild, I miss Quaggans, I miss the cool fighting style that’s superior to every other MMO I’ve played. I haven’t played since April last year, and I find that quite sad. There are three things that happened in April, that, in combination, ruined the game for me: megaservers tearing apart the RP servers, Townclothes being removed and butchered for cookie-cutter costumes, and most importantly and most game-breaking of all: the trait system changes. If the latter was to be genuinely fixed, brought back to being as alt-friendly and diversity-promoting as the old system was, I’d like to give the game another chance. For old times’ sake.

The change is supposedly going to simplify the current system we’re on. I personally prefer them to revert back to the good ol’ days of manuals. The manuals were as simple as can be. But, I am intrigued to see what solution Anet has come up with. Baring in mind that we’ve waited months and with this beautiful thread’s creation, the 3rd trait system has a much riding on it. After all, I would want my Revenant to be able to use its traits ASAP.

Zanthrax.6538:

I never understood the QQ about this, they went from a system where you buy your traits….to a system where you can buy OR unlock your traits and people are complaining? I don’t understand….just unlock them with ingame gold if you don’t like PvE. JUST as it was before.

They went from a system were you could buy all the traits for < 10 gold to one that cost about 8 times that per character in in-game gold. Does that make sense now?

BentoDetective.6491:

It was us, players, that pave the way towards a brighter future. This thread, that everyone took time to contribute in, was what helped Anet.

Realistically, what happened was after running a report on new player dropout and seeing a decline in Gem Store use by new and returning players, a group of Devs in some meeting room said “OMG, WTF are we going to do?”. Two or three of the Devs were thinking but not saying “I knew it”.

What we have is spin by Colin J. I’d be curious to know how far along “our new” trait system really is… Remember this all came along during PAX. If yr not selling something new at PAX you get no buzz or PR.

At least that’s the way I see it.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

Awesome! Now, could you also remove the “new player experience” that makes all of my friends who just bought GW2 based on the imminent expansion confused, angry and frustrated? That would be great!

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

You have no idea how happy this makes me, and a lot of other people.

You truly do listen to your community! (albeit it taking quite a time… But hey, we’re seeing change!)

Funny watching people getting excited over being told wait another 6 months. They could have been doing small updates this entire time to make it better for the mean time that takes very little work. All Colin did is drop some hype that things will be better come xpac time with out giving any details on what to expect. That means it will be over a year that they left this game with a broken system with out supporting it. I can’t believe anyone would want to give their hard earned money to someone with this kind of track record. Something about a fool and his money comes to mind.

I will start giving them my money again when they actually start doing things to fix broken systems and not just tell us they are aware of our concern. Like I said before, they could have tried to make this system better for the mean time, instead they have done nothing and will continue to do nothing for at least another 6 months. And then who knows what we will get. It might be better it might be worse. With out details there is nothing to get excited for.

Technically we’re not told to wait another six months. There’s no ETA on when Heart of Thorns is getting released, nor is there an ETA on when this fix goes live. It could be next week, could be six months, could be six years.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

How is this going to affect players that strictly WvW? Will we need to run PvE content to access new traits and skills?

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

Why do MMOs feel the need to do this after a few years? Do you think that the longer we play your game, the more dumb we get, and therefore need you to keep simplifying things?

We aren’t children, we can cope with more than one button or system, in fact most of us crave the complexity!

In fact, you dumbing down your game with more and more patches like this drives most of your loyal fanbase away! First it was the leveling processes, then the weapon skills, then the traits, then the dailies and monthlies, now this again – soon we will just log in, press one button, level to 80, get everything auto assigned, and log off.

Your game “was” brilliant. Now, it is becoming like every other dumbed down one button point and click game out there.