Guild Wars 2

I can’t say I ever feel forced to buy anything. I do buy some items now and then, because I want to. You should never do anything against your will, in my opinion, anyway.

Aye, while the idea itself is good in order to do a change like this it must guarantee that they still net the same income, which is quite unlikely.

Clearly the 1 use skins do sell quite well atm so they don’t really, from a business point of view, have any reason to change it.

Well, they’re going to run into the problem sooner or later when the wardrobe is finally implemented (I don’t think GW2 can do without a wardrobe feature, so that is inevitable)… better fix the issues now, right?

Why would they run into problems then?
It is not as it would suddenly make stuff become unlimited (unless they go with a LOTRO-style wardrobe).

Well that’s how I always envisioned the wardrobe: all skins becoming exactly like zenith/HOM skins. Unlock once for your account, use forever, as many times you want.

If they want to make money from it, they can put a limit on the amount of concurrent slots in the wardrobe, which can be expaned on by paying cash, though.

If all skins worked like the achievement skins then I would be perfectly fine with new skins only being available through the gem store.

I might have bought something in the gem store sometime if it wasn’t for this absurd policy.

But shelling out 10$ (or 100G or whatever) not on just a cosmetic item, but a cosmetic item you can only use once, on one character, and can easily lose altogether seems like an absurd investment.

they did it in gw1, just something else we loved about guild wars 1 that isn’t in gw2

want to see it in gw2 but there would be so many refund requests now that i can’t see them doing it.

Flubble.8093:

they did it in gw1, just something else we loved about guild wars 1 that isn’t in gw2.

They also required you to pay real money in GW1. While in GW2 you can technically pay for it with gold.

Unlocks are always better.

Pay once is even better.

Pay gems once for a skin, use it with any character either for free or for a small coin fee.
Pay once for a style, talk with an anatomical engineer to change to previously unlocked styles for a small coin fee, only pay gems when changing to new styles, or when doing slider tweaks or changing gender. Pay more the more changes you do, from a minimum up to a maximum. (Styles picked on character creation won’t count towards unlocks, of course only the first time they are picked while paying they get unlocked).
Pay once for an unlimited gathering tool, get more for a smaller gem fee, or for a coin fee.
Pay once for an instrument, or toy, get more for free, or for a small coin fee.
Get an achievement item or skin, the skin gets unlocked and more skin transmuter or level 0 items with the skin can be created with karma.
Get any untradeable vanity reward like a miniature, or toy, also gets unlocked. Get more for free.

In general, only ‘services’ like name changes and consumables such as repair canisters, boosters and black lion merchants should be paid full price every single time.

People would actually buy more.
People would spend more gems in customizing if they can return to previous styles for a smaller fee or just a coin fee, and can get 3-5 hair styles to switch once in a while. Instead just picking the one they like the most and stick to it.
People would get more armor skins if they won’t lose the previous one when applying to the same armor.
People would get more town clothes if each extra set they buy won’t mean they need to get more storage to keep the old ones.

Zinebot.4250:

Unfortunately they’re making too much profit from it to care.

I whole-heartedly endorse this product or event.

Seriously though I’ve had friends who’ve accidentally deleted items, or locked items on an alt that was then deleted, etc. I would be far more eager to buy items from the gem store if I could ruse them on my alts, as I’ve got a lot of them.

I personally would never buy the same skin twice for any reason. It would just feel awkward for me. So whether they make this change or not it wouldn’t effect their income from me. Although it WOULD make me more likely to buy multiple different skins.

I’d love unlimited uses but I doubt it’ll happen. Like others have said, they make too much cash off gem store for them to make any changes like that.

LS rewards (back), Gem store Armor, and Gem store Weapons (not rng box ones) all should be added to our Achievements Rewards Panel.

Zinebot.4250:

Unfortunately they’re making too much profit from it to care.

I’m pretty sure they make most of their bank from permanent unlocks like character slots and convenience items like the unlimited harvesting tools. I doubt skins sell all that well. Making them unlock like the achievement point skins would no doubt make players more inclined to want to catch them all. The current system is bad.

Would the profit lost from people buying the same skin multiple times be more then the profit gained from people who now feel the skins are worth the price.

Phy.2913:

Would the profit lost from people buying the same skin multiple times be more then the profit gained from people who now feel the skins are worth the price.

Looking at League of Legends’ incredibly successful skin sales I’m going to go ahead and say no. The issue with the current gem shop is that very few things are actually worth it. With the current transmutation system in place buying more than one skin really is pointless for most of the playerbase who won’t bother grinding out more than one set.

Two words: Skin Wardrobe.
DC Universe Online has one. It’s a free to play MMO with an in-game store option just like GW2 minus the Buy-To-Play part, and it doesn’t look like they’re having financial problems.
How about going that route as well, guys of NCSoft and Arenanet developers?

Oh, and when you change gold to get gems, you are paying with your time spent gathering that gold. And you know what they say, time is money.
Of course, you could have gotten lucky with precursor drop to sell, but even in real life you can get lucky and win a lottery prize.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Phy.2913:

Would the profit lost from people buying the same skin multiple times be more then the profit gained from people who now feel the skins are worth the price.

Looking at League of Legends’ incredibly successful skin sales I’m going to go ahead and say no. The issue with the current gem shop is that very few things are actually worth it. With the current transmutation system in place buying more than one skin really is pointless for most of the playerbase who won’t bother grinding out more than one set.

I think they would see an increase in skin sales if they were unlimited use, which I think is what you were implying, also.

They might see an increase, but will the increase be big enough to cover the loss of sales from one-time skins and Transmutation crystals/stones/splitter?

thac why im not buying skins cuz they are not like this

I absolutely agree with you, OP. Unfortunately this will never happen.
Also the existence of transmution splitter should tell you A LOT.

Gele.2048:

thac why im not buying skins cuz they are not like this

Yup me too!

In fact I would have originally bought skins when I was leveling, but I changed gear so fast I figured it wasn’t worth it due to the limited use.

Even now I’m still upgrading gear and don’t want skins until I’ve got my ‘final’ gear (whenever that is).

Unlocking skins for use whenever would be amazing. I would go buy a ton of skins right now if that was the case.

I would like to see a Dcuo type wardrobe.

I don’t understand why you got “forced” i.e you don’t have a choice but to buy. I personally always have a choice, I can choose to buy or not to buy. If I like something, and I really really like it, I still have a choice to buy or not to buy.

It’s no different seeing ad in the tv/net/paper or hearing it from the radio, I always have a choice. Sure, that new shiny iPhone 5S/C are so enticing, yeah that new Amazon Kindle Fire HDX is so pretty, how about the Moto X or that new Mazda CX5 2014 or even just that new burger over at my favorite food chain.

If I have the money and I need (not want), I’ll buy it. If I have the money, and it’s just my “want”, I can choose to buy it or ignore it. If I need something, but don’t have the money, I’ll find alternatives. If I don’t need it, I usually don’t pay it much attention.

The Gem Store is similar to, if not in itself, an AD. And you know why biz post ADs right? To get money from customers.

There have been lots of times where I want things, but I have enough self control that I never gave in to that. So, I was never forced, nor feel forced. I was enticed, but in the end, I always win: I never give in to temptation

===

As for reusable skin, I don’t have issue if Anet implements it, nor do I have issue if they chose not to. I’m pretty sure Anet will have a valid reason why they’ll choose one over the other

If someone charges too much for something, and you complain but still buy it, you are not telling them to fix the problem; you are rewarding them for having the problem in the first place.

Guess which speaks louder, money or words?

I mean… heaven forbid a game developer do things that makes them money.

My point was that they would make more money off me if they were re-usable. I’m trying to help them make more money!

And if it’s true for me, I wonder how many others this would be true for?

Ghostextechnica.3270:

My point was that they would make more money off me if they were re-usable. I’m trying to help them make more money!

And if it’s true for me, I wonder how many others this would be true for?

Dunno. Arena.net apparently believes they make more selling them single-use only and the whole transmutation stone system.

I don’t think they’re wrong.

Look at all the accountants and businessmen here you guys must make millions if your’re that smart, oh my god I wonder why Anet didn’t think about this!

Grim Jr.8946:

Look at all the accountants and businessmen here you guys must make millions if your’re that smart, oh my god I wonder why Anet didn’t think about this!

Yeah, because Anets employee’s couldn’t possibly believe in some outdated business models. Everyone is extremely open to new idea’s and practices, and are quick to adapt to changes in the market.

I hope this was sarcastic enough.

I mean you know how good an idea this is?

without any evidence, research, or computing you managed to come up with a business model that would certainly make millions without any fail! you should go to every forum and post this marvelous idea just in case that devs all around the world have never heard of the popular DC Universe Online

Ghostextechnica.3270:

My point was that they would make more money off me if they were re-usable. I’m trying to help them make more money!

And if it’s true for me, I wonder how many others this would be true for?

Are you people insane? That’s like saying I would buy food/gas/electric/toilet paper if they were re-usable.

Dikeido.8436:

Ghostextechnica.3270:

My point was that they would make more money off me if they were re-usable. I’m trying to help them make more money!

And if it’s true for me, I wonder how many others this would be true for?

Are you people insane? That’s like saying I would buy food/gas/electric/toilet paper if they were re-usable.

That analogy is terrible, it’s more like “would you buy a t-shirt if it wasn’t reusable?”

Dikeido.8436:

Are you people insane? That’s like saying I would buy food/gas/electric/toilet paper if they were re-usable.

It’s not QUITE what the contention is. The contention is that there are a large glut of players who refuse to buy gem shop skins because they are single use only, and would happily do so if they were a one time per account item.

Now, are there enough of THAT group to make up for the group of people who buy multiple skins for multiple characters? That is the question.

Even if there IS, what would that second group do if Arena.net were to change it? I suspect the forums would be aflame demanding refunds for all the extra skins they bought that are now worthless.

I just don’t see how that first group is large enough to warrant that change.

No it’s like buying a shirt, you can wear the shirt, your mates can borrow the shirt, your gf can wear the shirt, anyone can wear the shirt, but you only paid for it once. You dont have to go back to the store to get a new name tag put on it whenever someone else wants to wear it.

And yes they would sell more skins if they were like the achievement skins as more people would be willing to pay for them as all their character can use them whenever they want and all of them at the same time if need be.
Being character bound means a lot of people will only buy the odd skin they like instead.

Grim Jr.8946:

I mean you know how good an idea this is?

without any evidence, research, or computing you managed to come up with a business model that would certainly make millions without any fail! you should go to every forum and post this marvelous idea just in case that devs all around the world have never heard of the popular DC Universe Online

Ah, of course! And why not removing the whole gold to gems exchange system since we are there? Maybe also raise the price of gems a tad more. After all, players will just mindlessly buy anything in order to feel exclusive.
Well, that sure sounds like a flawless plan that would bring much more money onto their pockets. You can almost hear the wonderful sound of the coins ringing, right?

But perhaps you should first inform yourself about a developer company named Capcom, and how their greed is driving it to bankruptcy.
Give out a service while making money is sure their goal, but an unhappy customer base might generate a much less desiderable outcome.

Hermes.7014:

Give out a service while making money is sure their goal, but an unhappy customer base may result in a much less desiderable outcome.

And how many unhappy customers do you think it will create when you make their multiple purchases worthless and demand refunds (thus costing you money)?

Keep it as it is. It doesn’t need changing, and will only cause headaches if they do.

chemiclord.3978:

Hermes.7014:

Give out a service while making money is sure their goal, but an unhappy customer base may result in a much less desiderable outcome.

And how many unhappy customers do you think it will create when you make their multiple purchases worthless and demand refunds (thus costing you money)?

Keep it as it is. It doesn’t need changing, and will only cause headaches if they do.

And leaving it how it is doesn’t cause headaches and lost revenue, how? This thread proves there are unhappy potential customers right now.

In case you were comatose over the last week, there was a bit of an uproar over what was perceived as a change to the established method of things.

I don’t care how many “unhappy potential customers” you think there are. Change this, and you will have a swarm of furiously kitten ed off customers flooding this forum.

You are a “potential customer” (read also; non-customer) asking them to potentially enrage their established customers. It’s not going to happen. Deal with it.

(For the record; I do not have any multiple gem store skins.)

Phy.2913:

chemiclord.3978:

Hermes.7014:

Give out a service while making money is sure their goal, but an unhappy customer base may result in a much less desiderable outcome.

And how many unhappy customers do you think it will create when you make their multiple purchases worthless and demand refunds (thus costing you money)?

Keep it as it is. It doesn’t need changing, and will only cause headaches if they do.

And leaving it how it is doesn’t cause headaches and lost revenue, how? This thread proves there are unhappy potential customers right now.

it also doesn’t prove they have lost revenue or are losing money nor does it prove they will gain money.. people be like “You will gain more money!” uhh.. No. it’s not how business works, pretty sure they should’ve taught this in school

I’m positively surprised your post has stayed in the general forum. The thread I started was moved to the Black Lion forum where it suffered a predictable death in a short time.

Speaking of digital goods. For $1 I can purchase one of the greatest works of art ever created. I can listen to it as much as I want. If I want to copy it onto another device, I can do that. It’ll play on my computer, a stereo, in a car. If I delete it or damage my computer, I can re-download it. It’s just data. There is no time limit on it. I can even share it over my network so that my family members can all listen to it and I can listen to their stuff if we have different accounts. This is all sensible. I could even see there being less restrictions.

Here? Well, if I pay $10, I can get one skin, I may use it once, on one character. That is provided that I don’t already have a skin on that character. In that case I’ll also want to buy some transmutation crystals so I can keep my old purchase. In fact, I’ll want to do that every time I change my stats or buy a new skin from now on. If I accidentally delete a piece during this process, too bad for me. If I stop playing this character as much and would like the skin somewhere else? Too bad. The skin may even be based off another skin already in the game to save them some time and money. Maybe they will pass some of that savings on to me? Nope. If it flies it flies. It didn’t with the flamekissed light armor and now they “agree” that it looks a bit too much like human T3. Well, I guess no one looked at it and thought that when they approved it for the game?

Needless to say, what the OP describes seems like one obvious way to implement a system like this. All these attempts at squeezing out extra profit is making it much harder for them to change their mind and re-implement how items work in a more user friendly way. Look at the gathering tools, for example. They should never have been soulbound. Now they changed them to account bound, but subsequently had to deal with people wanting refunds, and they decided to up the price for them too (800 was already very expensive for one tool). The best way would have been to make each tool permanent unlock from the start across all your characters. The fact that you have to switch them around between characters now is still a curious inconvenience. The tool slot should just contain the permanent tool icon on your account for all characters. If you have multiple different ones (for effect, I guess), there should be a menu to select which one to use when you click it.

Even using this method, if you purchased all three tools, you’d almost have paid for entire game again, and that would only be for the convenience of harvesting without restocking.

My confidence that the people who run the gem store thinks about the player experience is non-existent. If they do, they haven’t really been out to prove it.

chemiclord.3978:

In case you were comatose over the last week, there was a bit of an uproar over what was perceived as a change to the established method of things.

I don’t care how many “unhappy potential customers” you think there are. Change this, and you will have a swarm of furiously kitten ed off customers flooding this forum.

You are a “potential customer” (read also; non-customer) asking them to potentially enrage their established customers. It’s not going to happen. Deal with it.

Right. Nothing should ever be improved on because it might upset people. Keep the status quo until the ship sinks along with everyone on it. Brilliant strategy that.

Those purchases are going to be defunct at some point anyhow as just about all MMOs eventually shut down. What ANet, and the playerbase, should be concerned with at this point is improving the game and the gem shop along with it. Right now the transmutation system meshes poorly with their stated goal of cosmetic progression since you never actually progress due to everything being transient in nature.

The only real cosmetic progression at the moment comes from the achievement point skins. This needs to change and people need to be given something to work towards. Making skins collectible would be a huge step in the right direction and I don’t believe in letting a handful of people stand in the way of a better game.

Grim Jr.8946:

Phy.2913:

chemiclord.3978:

Hermes.7014:

Give out a service while making money is sure their goal, but an unhappy customer base may result in a much less desiderable outcome.

And how many unhappy customers do you think it will create when you make their multiple purchases worthless and demand refunds (thus costing you money)?

Keep it as it is. It doesn’t need changing, and will only cause headaches if they do.

And leaving it how it is doesn’t cause headaches and lost revenue, how? This thread proves there are unhappy potential customers right now.

it also doesn’t prove they have lost revenue or are losing money nor does it prove they will gain money.. people be like “You will gain more money!” uhh.. No. it’s not how business works, pretty sure they should’ve taught this in school

It doesn’t disprove it either. Do YOU know how much money they may or may not lose/gain from it? No, you don’t.

Phy.2913:

It doesn’t disprove it either. Do YOU know how much money they may or may not lose/gain from it? No, you don’t.

You’re right. We don’t. Then again, we don’t have the burden of proof either. You’re the one that wants a change. The burden is on YOU to prove that the change would be worth it to Arena.net.

chemiclord.3978:

Phy.2913:

It doesn’t disprove it either. Do YOU know how much money they may or may not lose/gain from it? No, you don’t.

You’re right. We don’t. Then again, we don’t have the burden of proof either. You’re the one that wants a change. The burden is on YOU to prove that the change would be worth it to Arena.net.

I would be much more likely to buy a skin if it was unlimited use, but that’s not actually the point of this thread. This thread is a suggestion, and thus it is here to pose an idea, and get feedback on that idea, such as pros and cons.

chemiclord.3978:

The burden is on YOU to prove that the change would be worth it to Arena.net.

One need only point to Riot Games and League of Legends for that. A game which reaps far greater profits than Guild Wars 2 ever will through its skin sales alone. The current business model is bad as it doesn’t offer the customer enough value for his money. This means less people are likely to buy into it and the goal of any business is to constantly expand. The current system prevents that.

Now feel more than free to point me to a game which successfully employs the same skin business model as Guild Wars 2. I have a feeling you won’t be able to since it’s a terrible system but maybe you’ll surprise me.