Guild Wars 2

I got into an argument with other players over this and it got me wondering what the general opinion is of this.

Currently, if a Mesmer finishes a jump puzzle they can use their portal ability to bring up anyone they want to the end of the puzzle. This also gives the achievement and the items in the chest at the end.

I always believed in having at least one thing in a game being purely skill based and jump puzzles fit it pretty well. Not everyone likes them, a lot hate them but others like me LOVE them. I have done every JP in the game and have not needed a single Mesmer portal. At the same time while I put the time and effort into beating this really hard jp, people can get a free ride up if just one Mesmer does it for them giving the same reward for someone who did the entire puzzle by them self. To me this devalues the actual achievement of finishing a puzzle because a large handful of people got a friend to do it for them and didn’t personally spend the time doing it.

So is it fine that someone can carry their friends to the end of a jump puzzle they couldn’t do or should it be earned by yourself alone?

Why should I care how other people finish? Most of the puzzles are ruined by a poor camera and misleading surfaces and similar gimmicks anyway; to me it’s fine that they can be “solved” by a player trick.

If you had fun using your skill to do jump puzzles the way you want to why do you care how others do it? The portal mechanic is part of the game so people using it are not taking advantage of an exploit.

I like the use of portals in jumping puzzles – it’s what I’d consider an example of positive community interaction. A Mesmer helps out other players, and the other players may thank them, tip them, or outright pay them for their services. It’s not like farming exploits in which one party suffers for the gain of the other, resulting in needless rage – with portals, everyone benefits and everyone gets what they want out of the interaction.

I had given up on a particular JP in Southsun after trying over 100 times. I know very sad. My Norn is not the best to take anyway but that one doesn’t have horrible camera angles like most. When the return to southsun put an item at the top of the JP I was positive I would never finish. That’s when a Mesmer offered to port us up and I was so grateful. I didn’t realize there were complete strangers out there willing to help out some of us JP-challenged people without expectation. (I did offer a tip they refused)

I guess if people never even attempted a JP and just took the portal, they’d be missing out. It doesn’t bother me at all nor does it have any impact on my enjoyment of the game.

I have done every jumping puzzle in the game.

The one jumping puzzle I caved in and took a mesmer portal to the end was the Aeatherblade jumping puzzle. Because that puzzle does not rely on your skill in jumping. Rather luck and latency.

I’m still leveling a mesmer just to help people with JP’s.

A lot of people won’t accept the help. But not everyone has a perfect rig or control scheme either so at some point they also recognize that it’s not even that “pure” of a test in “Skill”. If the OP wants a really pure test in skill, I’d ask what he’s even doing here in this game?? Go play some hardcore Steam platformers or Tribes or something if you want some sanctimonious monopoly on jumping achieves.

Azure Prower.8701:

I have done every jumping puzzle in the game.

The one jumping puzzle I caved in and took a mesmer portal to the end was the Aeatherblade jumping puzzle. Because that puzzle does not rely on your skill in jumping. Rather luck and latency.

lol. I just went up to the goggles for the first time earlier today. Didn’t use a portal but after my 3rd plummet to my death in the post-chest-pre-goggles section, I sure as hell thought about it lol. I don’t blame you at all

As to OP: I’ve also done every jumping puzzle in the game (yes Wintersday, no Halloween [was on hiatus]), and to be perfectly honest… I’m ok with portal users. The GW community has always been fairly toxic so to see some genuine kindness from people to pop a portal for others doesn’t bother me. I don’t use them myself, but I have zero problems with someone who does.

BetterMixMaster.8153:

I got into an argument with other players over this and it got me wondering what the general opinion is of this.

Currently, if a Mesmer finishes a jump puzzle they can use their portal ability to bring up anyone they want to the end of the puzzle. This also gives the achievement and the items in the chest at the end.

I always believed in having at least one thing in a game being purely skill based and jump puzzles fit it pretty well. Not everyone likes them, a lot hate them but others like me LOVE them. I have done every JP in the game and have not needed a single Mesmer portal. At the same time while I put the time and effort into beating this really hard jp, people can get a free ride up if just one Mesmer does it for them giving the same reward for someone who did the entire puzzle by them self. To me this devalues the actual achievement of finishing a puzzle because a large handful of people got a friend to do it for them and didn’t personally spend the time doing it.

So is it fine that someone can carry their friends to the end of a jump puzzle they couldn’t do or should it be earned by yourself alone?

If you enjoy doing the puzzles, take that away from it instead and stop caring how other people play the game.

I don’t see a problem with it. It’s nothing game-breaking and why should I care about how other players are spending their time? On my first time at a JP I personally do it first and then I take portals if they’re available afterwards. Unless other people taking portals somehow directly affects someone’s ability to play the game, I don’t think it matters.

Edit: I actually made a mesmer just to portal people to JPs after having very kind mesmers port me in Obsidian Sanctum innumerable times. So yeah.

I do not mind at all.

To each his own. I personally don’t care for JPs, while I do enjoy them and will do them by myself, I won’t go out of my way to find them and do them.

As for whether it should only be relegated for those who can do the JPs, it’s up for Anet to decide. As it is now, no rule against portalling. Besides, a player who gets “carried” can always do it again and I’m pretty sure, they can do it. Except for Mad King, no portal can help you there.

So all JPs are extremely doable, some players will take longer than others, some only needs patience, some only needs time, but ultimately, I haven’t seen any JP that is impossible to most except Mad King Clock Tower.

I consider myself pretty bad at JP, I spend a total of 16hrs (5-6days play time) to complete the Steam JP in Southsun, in the end, it’s just a matter of practice. I tried to do it again after several months, and it took me 2hrs the next time around. Will I do it again? Probably no, unless there’s a reason to. Will I be able to do it again in 2hrs, not sure, but if someone is offering a portal, I’ll take it in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately, the Mad King Clock Tower is not something I can’t do, I ran out of time.

BetterMixMaster.8153:

I got into an argument with other players over this and it got me wondering what the general opinion is of this.

Currently, if a Mesmer finishes a jump puzzle they can use their portal ability to bring up anyone they want to the end of the puzzle. This also gives the achievement and the items in the chest at the end.

I always believed in having at least one thing in a game being purely skill based and jump puzzles fit it pretty well. Not everyone likes them, a lot hate them but others like me LOVE them. I have done every JP in the game and have not needed a single Mesmer portal. At the same time while I put the time and effort into beating this really hard jp, people can get a free ride up if just one Mesmer does it for them giving the same reward for someone who did the entire puzzle by them self. To me this devalues the actual achievement of finishing a puzzle because a large handful of people got a friend to do it for them and didn’t personally spend the time doing it.

So is it fine that someone can carry their friends to the end of a jump puzzle they couldn’t do or should it be earned by yourself alone?

I’m actually torn on this one.

I understand how it seems that using a portal is actually “skipping content”. And that players are being carried. I am uneasy over that myself.

However, the jump puzzles themselves are such an abomination of issues regarding jump box sizes, race height, and server-client location disagreements, never mind lag that I can understand the desire to use existing in-game mechanics to compensate.

In the end, if ANet insists on having them in this game, then players can avail themselves of anything that will allow them to complete them.

I understand jump puzzles appeal to a large number of players.

I will never change my belief that platform play (best served by Nintendo hardware) has no place in a mainstream MMORPG that uses a server-client paradigm.

Doesn’t hurt me, I can still do the puzzles the long way, so I don’t care. It does mean some ah those bums with jumping titles didn’t deserve ‘em, but so long as I feel good about how I get mine the rest don’t really matter.

Honestly I try my best to do all the puzzles myself, but some, like the goggles part of the aetherblade one, are just beyond me and without a mesmer, I never would have gotten it otherwise. The camera is just way too freakout-prone, and many surface textures just don’t work like they should (not to mention buggy jump mechanics on certain races). Does this mean I can look at you and say: well I got a portal up, so your hard work is worthless? Of course not, I have the proper respect for anyone to finish the oldschool way just as if there were no portals at all. Likewise, when I do the puzzles on my own with no portal assistance, I don’t look at those people zipping past me using portals with envy or disdain. I really could care less. them completing it does not devalue my hard work in any way nor does it give them some advantage over me because guess what? If it turns out I can’t beat it on my own…I can always make a mesmer do it for me ;-)

I don´t care about it at all and I am slightly annoyed by people who are being overly concerned with the way other people play the game in general.

You’re missing out on a great experience. Some people just can’t do JP’s, and they get so frustrated trying they give up. Then you as a Mesmer come alone and finish it, when you offer to portal people the thanks you get is amazing.

I’m not talking getting tipped for portal’ing etc, I don’t care about that. But when someone whispers to thank me after I do the portal, well, it reminds me of why MMO’s are worth playing.

goldenwing.8473:

BetterMixMaster.8153:

I got into an argument with other players over this and it got me wondering what the general opinion is of this.

Currently, if a Mesmer finishes a jump puzzle they can use their portal ability to bring up anyone they want to the end of the puzzle. This also gives the achievement and the items in the chest at the end.

I always believed in having at least one thing in a game being purely skill based and jump puzzles fit it pretty well. Not everyone likes them, a lot hate them but others like me LOVE them. I have done every JP in the game and have not needed a single Mesmer portal. At the same time while I put the time and effort into beating this really hard jp, people can get a free ride up if just one Mesmer does it for them giving the same reward for someone who did the entire puzzle by them self. To me this devalues the actual achievement of finishing a puzzle because a large handful of people got a friend to do it for them and didn’t personally spend the time doing it.

So is it fine that someone can carry their friends to the end of a jump puzzle they couldn’t do or should it be earned by yourself alone?

I’m actually torn on this one.

I understand how it seems that using a portal is actually “skipping content”. And that players are being carried. I am uneasy over that myself.

However, the jump puzzles themselves are such an abomination of issues regarding jump box sizes, race height, and server-client location disagreements, never mind lag that I can understand the desire to use existing in-game mechanics to compensate.

In the end, if ANet insists on having them in this game, then players can avail themselves of anything that will allow them to complete them.

I understand jump puzzles appeal to a large number of players.

I will never change my belief that platform play (best served by Nintendo hardware) has no place in a mainstream MMORPG that uses a server-client paradigm.

Hi,

Your thoughts are almost the same as mine. It does feel kind of cheap, but on the other hand, due to the dubious placement of platforming on this game, it seems possible to consider this a workaround.

BetterMixMaster.8153:

I got into an argument with other players over this and it got me wondering what the general opinion is of this.

Currently, if a Mesmer finishes a jump puzzle they can use their portal ability to bring up anyone they want to the end of the puzzle. This also gives the achievement and the items in the chest at the end.

I always believed in having at least one thing in a game being purely skill based and jump puzzles fit it pretty well. Not everyone likes them, a lot hate them but others like me LOVE them. I have done every JP in the game and have not needed a single Mesmer portal. At the same time while I put the time and effort into beating this really hard jp, people can get a free ride up if just one Mesmer does it for them giving the same reward for someone who did the entire puzzle by them self. To me this devalues the actual achievement of finishing a puzzle because a large handful of people got a friend to do it for them and didn’t personally spend the time doing it.

So is it fine that someone can carry their friends to the end of a jump puzzle they couldn’t do or should it be earned by yourself alone?

As someone that’s done every j/p, almost every explorer, I don’t care how the next person does it. I’m not doing them for vanity. I don’t care if I can go “whooppddeeedooo I did a jumping puzzle”. I get enjoyment from doing them. It seems to me that if you really were only doing them for the enjoyment of it, as it seems you say you do, then it shouldn’t matter to you how others do it. The only conclusion I can draw is that it’s not just for the enjoyment for you. There is some prestige for you associated with doing them, (I assure you there is not, they are not “skill based” by any means).

I would suggest try to enjoy doing them more, and spend less time worrying about how person X did them.

In addition to what others have said, I also really like the community aspect of Mesmers porting through JPs.

For the vast majority of PvE content, you either do it alone or in big groups. There’s very little need to communicate with other people. Dungeons are the big exception, but even then those tend to be a stressful environment, often bad for community-building; since there are specific things you need to do to complete each dungeon, anyone who either doesn’t know those things or executes them poorly will make the run go less smoothly, annoying the other members of the group. Indeed, ideal dungeon runs involve as little communication as possible.

JP ports are the exception to this. Communication is key, and there’s no real fail option. JP ports are just a nice thing Mesmer players can do for their fellow players. If only there were more such opportunities to show such thoughtful consideration.

Portals are fine. People helping people is a good thing.

Portals don’t effect me at all, so I don’t mind, really. But at the same time, they propose a strange problem of being able to completely skip content to gain a reward. While the rewards are often not the best, the principle remains the same.

What if players could skip directly to the end of dungeons and pick up the rewards at the end? Or skip their whole personal story , skip the entirety of world exploration, or have all achievements given at login. From a game design perspective, it promotes being rewarded for things you have not done.

“But how does this hurt you?” It doesn’t, simply. But how does it help the player being ported? If there were no rewards at the end of the puzzle, why be ported up there in the first place? If players can be ported, why not instead have the chest and achievement at the beginning of the puzzle? They aren’t there for the jumping.

How others choose to finish the puzzle does not affect my enjoyment of it, and as long as it continues to not affect my enjoyment, I don’t care what they do.